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The Wayne Rooney Show: Episode Summary
Episode Title
Rooney Reviews: Man City - Why I Want Pep to STAY & Are They Title FAVOURITES?
Podcast Description In this episode, Wayne Rooney, alongside presenter Kelly Somers and comedian Kae Kurd, delves into the current state of Manchester City’s season. The discussion features insights from former City midfielder Michael Brown and podcaster David Mooney as they analyze the title race and Pep Guardiola's future with the club.
Key Themes and Discussions
Overview of Manchester City’s Season
- Inconsistent Performance: Rooney and guests discuss Manchester City’s season as a "hit and miss."
- Importance of Erling Haaland: Haaland's fitness and goal-scoring ability are highlighted as crucial for City's success.
Pep Guardiola's Future
- Speculation Around Departure: The panel debates whether this season might be Guardiola’s last at City, discussing how the outcome of this season could influence his decision.
- Rooney expresses a desire for Guardiola to stay, believing he is essential for the Premier League.
- The conversation touches upon the potential impact of financial rule breaches on Guardiola's future.
Off-Field Issues
- Financial Charges: The podcast addresses Manchester City's financial allegations and the club's strong denial of wrongdoing. The panel discusses the implications of a possible guilty verdict on Guardiola and the players.
Player Performances
- Phil Foden's Form: Discussion on Foden's recent dip in form, examining factors like tactical evolution and squad rotation.
- New Signings Impact: The contributions of new players like Mark Gahey and Antoine Semenyo are analyzed, with emphasis on how they fit into Guardiola's tactics.
Key Takeaways
- City's Title Chances: The consensus is that while City is not performing at their best, they are still in contention for the title, depending on Arsenal's form and their own consistency.
- Guardiola's Legacy: There's an acknowledgment that Guardiola's tenure at City has significantly impacted the Premier League, with hopes for his continued presence.
- Adapting to Change: The conversation reflects on how City is evolving and the challenges that come with transitioning styles and player roles.
Conclusion The episode provides an insightful analysis of Manchester City's ongoing season, the critical role of Guardiola, and the performance of key players. With a mix of humor and candid discussions, Rooney and guests present a compelling look at one of football's most talked-about clubs.
Watch and Listen
- Platforms: The Wayne Rooney Show is available on BBC Sport YouTube, iPlayer, and BBC Sounds for further listening and viewing.
Future Episodes Listeners are encouraged to stay tuned for upcoming episodes, as the panel continues to explore the dynamic world of football, focusing on both on-field performances and off-field narratives.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOAssessing Manchester City's Season
2:05 to 3:21
Discussion on City's inconsistent performance and key players.
“Wayne, let's start with what you've made of City's season.”
Title Race Dynamics: City vs Arsenal
3:21 to 4:28
Exploration of the title race and City's challenges this season.
“David, I can tell you already, you don't quite want to say it's back on.”
January Transfers: Key Signings for City
4:28 to 6:39
Analysis of City's recent signings and their potential impact.
“Mark Gay was the one, I think, that looked like Liverpool had him all the way.”
Defensive Partnerships: Building Stability
6:39 to 8:13
Discussion on defensive partnerships and recent performances.
“I think he checked out that point, maybe.”
Evaluating Antoine Semenyo's Role
8:13 to 10:26
Insight into Semenyo's adaptation and contributions to City.
“that are keeping City a lot more solid than they've been in recent weeks.”
Erling Haaland: The Scoring Debate
10:26 to 12:00
Debate on Haaland's scoring and impact on City's style of play.
“But you look at some of the saves he's made and I don't want to rubbish what Edison achieved at City.”
Phil Foden's Struggles This Season
12:00 to 14:00
Examination of Foden's recent performance issues and potential.
“It's not me saying he shouldn't be starting.”
Phil Foden's Current Form and Management
14:00 to 17:40
Discusses Phil Foden's performance struggles and managerial decisions affecting him.
“Came back at the start of this season, was very slowly reintroduced into the fold.”
Manchester City's Transition and Future
18:37 to 24:35
Explores the changes in Manchester City's playing style and their future under Guardiola.
“It's a team in transition, what you've just said there, Wayne, says it.”
Speculations on Guardiola's Future
24:36 to 28:01
Debates whether Guardiola will stay at Manchester City next season and the implications of his possible departure.
“People in football would sort of go, we think this is Pep's last year, but no one's really brought it to the front.”
Show all 16 chapters
City's Squad Regeneration Strategy
28:01 to 28:38
Learn about Manchester City's approach to squad rotation and regeneration over the years.
“But, I mean, you look at, like, year on year.”
The Importance of Core Group Players
28:39 to 30:47
Discover how having a core group of players impacts team dynamics and success.
“And I think, I mean, the one for me, I'd get Nico O 'Reilly and get him to watch Bernardo Silva and just go like this.”
Phil Foden's Development and Leadership
30:48 to 32:35
Discuss the challenges Phil Foden faces in developing as a leader at Manchester City.
“But that's why the Phil Foden thing is really disappointing, because he's probably one of the most decorated players at the club right now.”
Implications of Guardiola's Future
32:36 to 36:29
Examine how uncertainty surrounding Pep Guardiola's contract affects players and the club's future.
“You've been there when you know a manager's leaving or you don't know what's happening.”
Potential Managers for the Future
36:30 to 42:00
Explore potential candidates for Manchester City's managerial position should Guardiola leave.
“They've still got those nights that they're going to cherish.”
Pep Guardiola's Future at Manchester City
42:00 to 43:20
Explore Wayne Rooney's insights on Pep Guardiola's potential impact on City's future.
“So they'll know exactly where they want to be.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Wayne Rooney:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
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1:07Michael Brown:How can gold from MX sweeten your next food moment? Learn more at americanexpress.com slash explore-gold. Terms and points cap apply.
1:17David Mooney:I hope he stays because I just think for the Premier League, he's brilliant and you'd want the best managers in the Premier League.
1:23Michael Brown:If the charges come out and they get punished, will he leave or will he stay?
1:27Kae:No, if they're guilty, I think he stays. Yeah. You lot think I'm going to go. If City are in the Championship, City are in League One, League Two, whatever, I'm doing it. No joke. That's the sort of...
1:40Kelly:Hello and welcome along to The Wayne Rooney Show. We've got a bit of a different episode for you today. We spend a lot of time, don't we, talking about Manchester United, but we're actually going to focus in on the blue half of Manchester today and have a deep dive on Manchester City. But before we go any further, I'm going to let you know This was recorded before City played Fulham. We're also going to be joined by two guests today. So welcome along to former player Michael Brown and from the Let Me Talk podcast, David Mooney. Wayne, let's start with what you've made of City's season. Yeah, a bit hit and miss.
2:12David Mooney:If you like, I think a big thing for City is if Ireland's fit and scoring goals. But it hasn't been the football which we've seen, I think, over the last three or four years. I think that's the main thing, what you associate in Pep Guardiola's style of play. I don't think it's been that, but they're still there. They're still hanging around. So you never write them off, for sure.
2:35Kelly:Yeah, they are still hanging around, aren't they, Brownie? Title challenge looked to be off, didn't it? And it's back on. It must be getting a bit dizzy.
2:42Wayne Rooney:I've got to be careful. I'm surrounded by a couple of Man United, sort of massive fans. And to be in the situation of sort of on, off, inconsistent, away from home, really struggled. Erling Haaland still keeps getting talking about, even Wayne bringing it up there to sort of say, when he's not firing, who's going to score the goals if he's not dominating at the top of the pitch. But I think the Liverpool game, I think when that happens late on, it sort of just sends a little message. Arsenal already have been questioned in regards to have they got the mettle, have they got the understanding to go all the way.
3:16Wayne Rooney:So it's back on for now. But let's see.
3:21Kelly:David, I can tell you already, you don't quite want to say it's back on. Is it back on?
3:24Kae:Well, this is it. It's like if you were to sit here and tell me now that City have won the title at the end of the season, I could believe you. I can't do that. They're really, they're in it. They're in the mix. But it's maybe not as, like Wayne's right, it's not the same City team that used to go on runs at the end of seasons to see off a challenge from Arsenal, a challenge from Liverpool. So maybe it's about who is the least imperfect in the running, whether Arsenal can get over the line or whether City just keep battering at the door and just keep getting over the line in those sorts of games.
4:00Kae:And as Michael says, the Liverpool game, the feeling after that is huge. The way that they won the game, to come from behind at a stadium where they've won once in 20-odd years, it just gives everybody a belief that maybe wasn't there or maybe they were looking for and they found it.
4:23Kelly:How much has January helped in terms of the signings that were made?
4:28Wayne Rooney:Not two bad signings, are they? Mark Gay was the one, I think, that looked like Liverpool had him all the way. I think Liverpool have been good with their recruitment when they've tracked people. and then they've made their mind up and they've got him. But then it dragged on and City had to make the decision. John Stones has been struggling all season, losing Josco Vardio, Ruben Diaz, and they felt like that was one of the areas. And you look at the full-backs as well. Eight Norries came in, but he's not played. Nunes at right back still needs to get a little bit better. Understandably, he's a midfield player.
4:59Wayne Rooney:So they've went and spent wisely. I think he's a great signing. I think he'll fit the way Pep wants to go. I just looked at him, he was cute. how he plays, he makes a couple of fouls when he needs to, he's brave on the ball. And when you're leaving him and you're trying to play a high line, I think he's good. He sees the danger into the full-back positions and then the pace on that back front of City in transition trying to play quicker. Semenyo, I think he can play either side. I think it's been really good for them.
5:27Kelly:Yeah, it does feel like they kind of went out and picked two of the best performing players in the Premier League, didn't it?
5:32Michael Brown:Yeah, I mean, I think Mark Gahey in particular, I think he's like number one on the England team sheet in defence. Like if you're looking at defenders, he's the first name you're looking at, I think. Solid at the back. And I think he's massive as well in terms, in the dressing room. I think he's a massive leader and stuff as well. So I think, yeah, it's a massive coup because Liverpool really wanted him, didn't they? And it was like the deadline they nearly had him. And to get him away from Liverpool is just, it's insane.
6:01David Mooney:He slotted in quick, hadn't he? I thought he was brilliant against Liverpool I thought he was City's best player against Liverpool and what I very like about him is his passes through the lines getting into the midfielders getting them turned on the ball and I think at times City do play a little bit slow but what I liked about him the other day is he's pinging balls through the lines breaking midfield lines he plays it forward doesn't he into somebody rather than just square and then that gets them whether they get an overload on the top line
6:32Wayne Rooney:I think his performance against Macclesfield just got him over the line, didn't it? Just got him there, that common city to take him all the way. I think he checked out that point, maybe. There you go, come on, we'll take him.
6:42Kelly:Was that what City really needed to do to bolster the defence?
6:45Kae:A player that lost to Macclesfield.
6:47Kelly:Take that out of it. Maybe look at his other achievements.
6:50Kae:No, they were in a real tight spot with the defence. Stones has been... I absolutely love John Stones, but he just hasn't been available. He's been injured for a very long time. Diaz and Gavardio were creating a very good partnership. Both got injured in the same game against Chelsea. It was kind of a bit of a scramble round to work out who was going to play where in the back four for the next few weeks. That has had an effect on the form at that point. I think in the next game they drew with Brighton and then not long after that was the derby where it was just not a good solid City performance.
7:29Kae:and I think a lot of that comes from the fact that the back four has had this upheaval of a partnership that was doing really well. So Mark Gahey's come in, he's added a lot of experience and he's hit the ground running. And you certainly see with Kusinov, for instance. Kusinov is, I absolutely love him. I think he's a brilliantly, he's a really good aggressive defender. Perhaps too aggressive in moments where he dives in. He was out on the other day, wasn't he? Yeah. but throws himself into challenges. And he's worked well with Gehi. Diaz comes back in for the end of the Liverpool game when Kusadov has to go off with a concussion injury and he's slotted in perfectly well.
8:12Kae:So he's building partnerships at the back there that are keeping City a lot more solid than they've been in recent weeks.
8:18Kelly:What about Antoine Semenyo then? Because he was brilliant at Bournemouth, wasn't he? And he straight away scored goals, which I'm sure you're going to tell us, Wayne, that helps when you score pretty quick.
8:27David Mooney:Yeah, no, of course. He started really well, hasn't he, for City? The only worry I'd have if I was a wide player for City is the amount of rotation that Pep has. He rotates them wide players a lot to me and sort of consistently play. But City's coming in, he's playing every
8:45Kae:game. He can come in as well and you can name the team sheet and it looks like Semenyo is wide and then suddenly he's actually playing centrally. That's a big weapon for City to have. I think the thing with Semenya he obviously he doesn't know the patterns and he doesn't know kind of how City are trying to attack at the moment so he comes in and out of games right now but he's scoring goals at the same time so if you're if you're kind of still adapting but you are scoring goals then like the future is surely going to be going to be really bright
9:15Wayne Rooney:What about Marmouche? Do you know like where do you know what you say about rotation? Yeah I'm still thinking where do we get him in? What about Foden? I haven't seen him
9:23David Mooney:I've done a match of the day and I spoke about on there Harland was because of Marmish's position Harland was coming all morning to a number 10 position and that's the last place you want there in Harland you want him on the back line but because Marmish was making runs in behind then Harland found himself in a number 10 position so it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out in him because if you've got there on Harland you have to just have him off by in the back line and then you think the lights are folding all players coming in behind him
9:54Wayne Rooney:because what they did when Harland wasn't there this split Semenyo and Mahmouche two wide ones on the outside centre backs but can Haaland go and be one of them to get two at the top but you're thinking he has to be more of the can he learn that though to actually split he's still yeah of course he's still beyond the back line
10:13David Mooney:but then for me you just want to earn Haaland as close to the goal as possible because he's a goal scorer and you can try different things we played that way for England against Switzerland with me and Welbeck split strikers and Raheem Sterling played as a number 10 but he was like the most sensible one and as good as it is that's more a shape I think Chelsea done it a bit to stop Arsenal it's more of a shape to stop the opposition where if you've got Hernan Alge you just want him in front of that goal to score goals that's where he's more effective I think It does feel like
10:47Kelly:it's been a big debate again hasn't it about Erling Haaland because he hasn't of late been scoring as many goals as we've become accustomed to
10:54Kae:There's a real paradox with City where they've changed Edison for Donnarumma and Donnarumma doesn't have the same sort of passing and build-up as Edison did. But you look at some of the saves he's made and I don't want to rubbish what Edison achieved at City. He's a fantastic player for City. But there's been some saves that I'm thinking maybe Edison doesn't make that. And then at the other end, you've got Haaland who doesn't really get involved in the build-up and can't really do the build-up as well as previous City strikers. but scores a lot of goals. And they're trying to play this style where you've got a goalkeeper who will pass it out and a striker who will get involved.
11:31Kae:But neither of them are really good at that. But they're both doing their job really well. So you get this debate all the time about which is better and which is more effective. And the answer is maybe neither of them. Maybe they're both just effective. And Guardiola will have to just find a way to get Haaland involved. Will just have to find a way to, as Wayne says, keep Haaland up there, do the build-up without him and get the ball to him.
11:52David Mooney:I think you have to have him in your team You have to have him just in the middle of the goal If you try and take him away from that Then you're taking his game away from him
Read the full transcript
12:02Kae:He will start when he's available Because if you're City You don't give him a 10-year contract And put in this is our guy for the next decade And then go actually we're better without him in the team That makes no sense whatsoever
12:16Wayne Rooney:You ask the question don't you about Haaland And the stats of late are you surprised that he still gets that?
12:25Kelly:It's not me saying he shouldn't be starting. No, I'm saying
12:29Wayne Rooney:that's the talk, isn't it? As soon as he has a little run with not scoring then it's huge, isn't it? The talking point comes. We've become used to him scoring every game. If I was a manager
12:40David Mooney:and I could pick a centre forward from anywhere in the world it'd be an out.
12:45Kelly:And pretty much any manager would say that as well, wouldn't they?
12:47David Mooney:No, and people might say Mbappe or or, you know, Harry Kane... But he still gets criticism,
12:52Michael Brown:doesn't he? Yeah, people talk about how many touches he gets and stuff, and I find that baffling when they're like, oh, you only touch the ball X amount of times. You're like, yeah, but if he's scoring, who cares how many times...
13:01Kelly:If that touches it going in the back of the net.
13:02Michael Brown:Yeah, exactly. Yeah, if he touches the ball four times and it's three goals, who gives it?
13:06Kelly:Who gives it?
13:08David Mooney:You want him in your team. He's an animal. You've seen the size of him, how quick he was. Run past him. Sobber's not slow as well. And he's just absolutely burnt him. He's an animal. Listen, forwards go through phases where they don't score and whatever. But I just think, going back to the Liverpool game, what happens at the end of that game, you can see the release in him. So I think the next few games or this back end of the season, I think you've got to be careful and watch out for him.
13:40Kelly:There's going to be a few players that City will need to look to. Erling Haaland. What about Phil Foden? Because he had that real purple patch. You were shaking your head already.
13:48Michael Brown:I was like, what's happened to him? Yeah, what's happened?
13:51Kelly:It was brilliant, wasn't it, for a few months. And we thought we'd got the Phil Foden that we've seen before.
13:56Kae:Yeah, he really struggled last season. And it was like going away to the Club World Cup, fresh air, you know, USA. Everything was like a fresh start. Came back at the start of this season, was very slowly reintroduced into the fold. And then suddenly everything looked fine. And it was fantastic. He was fit and firing again. and in the last few weeks it's just like it hasn't really clicked and it's not for the one to try in. You take the Carabao Cup tie against Newcastle, the second leg, he was throwing himself around that pitch and he was leaving a foot in and really getting stuck in and it just wasn't happening for him.
14:33Kae:The ball wouldn't stick or the pass would be a yard short or a yard long. There would just be something that was a little bit off and it's almost like Guardiola talks about him all the time as, you know, he's our Phil, he's like my son, he's like all that sort of language. And I just feel like Guardiola's been very careful with him. We know he had issues last season that really got into stopping him from playing.
15:01Wayne Rooney:Why is he being careful with him though? I don't think that's the case. I really don't because I just feel he was back, he was flying, then he's underperformed slightly and then the manager reacts. And I don't think Phil reacts that well to that, you know, from when he's taken away from it. And I understand the manager has to make the call, you know, if he feels like there's others. Ryan Cherky's that flair one as well who can come inside and play in that position. I felt like he was like, right, he's straight into the England squad. He's going to be ready for the summer. He's going to be the player.
15:31Wayne Rooney:He was smiling. You could just see how much he was enjoying his football. And as soon as there's a couple of bad weeks, it's gone from bad to worse not to get any minutes. as a player that's hard some can deal with it and some can't I think when Phil has a little bit of a fall away he finds it tough
15:50David Mooney:I'd rather see him just playing as a number 10 and staying in that position because if you look at even though they're a similar size if you look at Bernardo Silva or Davide Silva when he was there they could float around the pitching
16:03Kae:but for that reason I don't hate when City using wide because he drifts inside and he can play he can come into the number 10 from a wide position. And I just think at the moment when we were talking about Semenyo before... But why does he go from playing every game
16:16Wayne Rooney:to hardly having any minutes? Do you know, how does it get to that? There's something there.
16:25David Mooney:That's happened a few times. Do you see what I'm saying?
16:29Wayne Rooney:You know you're in and then you'd still be coming on and having 20 minutes and he's gone from not getting any minutes. But this is the point. There's something that between what the manager sees, we don't always know everything, right? There's certain things he could be carrying, a particular injury that they have to protect, then he can't get to the level of training.
16:49David Mooney:I think the way City are playing now as well. City at the minute are not as, you know, what they were a few years ago where they're playing side to side, they're playing through the lines and keeping the ball for long periods. So they've gone a bit more dynamic with Temenyo in there and Cherokee when he's coming on. he's a bit more dynamic than what Phil Foden is so maybe just the way the irony there is
17:10Kae:Guardiola spent five years drilling into Foden not to be so direct I know
17:14David Mooney:but that's the way City City are a bit more dynamic now with Doc who's in there as well so they're not as they're not keeping the ball Doc who's got the freedom to do that though as much yeah
17:23Michael Brown:they want more physicality now and he probably doesn't well it looks like
17:28David Mooney:they've gone a bit more the team's a little bit more physical a little bit more direct when they get the ball running at defenders with it as well so and maybe that doesn't fulfill as much as some of the other players.
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18:48Kelly:This is maybe, well it is, isn't it? It's a team in transition, what you've just said there, Wayne, says it. You're not playing the way Man City of old were, which brings with it its own kind of problems, I guess.
18:58Kae:Yeah, I don't like the phrase in transition, though, because what if City are... What if this is just the new version of City now? What if City never get back to what they were? Okay, City have changed. So they've definitely changed. They've transitioned. They've transitioned, yeah. But what if the new look version of City isn't anything like what we've seen of it previously? What if this is in this new era of Premier League where we all love long throws, apparently, and we love the rough and tumble of it? What if the way that City survived that is by being a bit more imperfect and a bit more direct rather than the side-to-side, the control and that element of it?
19:34Kae:So I'm interested to see where it goes. And I don't know. What I really want to see from Guardiola is what the end version of this City looks like. Because he's had very different versions of his City team down the years. The one that got 100 points played nothing like the False 9 team that won the title. Played nothing like the treble winners in 2023. so what's the next step and like I said before you've got Harland and Donna Rummer who don't fit the patterns of anything that's gone before so what does this look like I'm really interested to see
20:04David Mooney:I think teams aren't playing as much as we've seen five years ago everyone's trying to copy what Pep was doing and City were doing and playing out from the back and taking risk and losing the ball and doing it again and then what that allowed allowed City and that's where City were at the best to go and press from the front and press high and be aggressive where I think Fogham was good at that as well where you get it because it's easier to defend in front of you than it is behind. Now teams where it's changed like the team's going longer and a bit more so they're having to run back as well.
20:35Kae:But also you look at teams that do want to play that style and I'm not talking kind of top end Premier League teams I'm talking mid-range Premier League teams they're good at it. They're really good at playing out from that pressure and City can press and actually Brighton, Bournemouth these teams they can get through you they can get through and create an attack and that's then a problem for Guardiola to solve.
20:55Michael Brown:But I think he's good at working out problems. I think the first season in particular, when he said when he came in he didn't know what second balls were because he'd never heard of that phrase in Spain and he quickly worked out what he needed to do in order to get the job done and I think if he's still here next season, I think City next season will have the answer to a lot of these problems that people are talking about. And you look at the squad.
21:18Kae:That is a squad that could be phenomenal next season.
21:21Michael Brown:But I think the big question is will he be there next year? That's there.
21:24Kelly:Let's go with that then, shall we?
21:29Kelly:You can go first, right? Come on, you know everything.
21:32David Mooney:I think he will. I think he'll be there next year. Do you? I think whatever happens...
21:37Kelly:That suggests he doesn't.
21:38David Mooney:No, I think whatever happens, I think, whether he wins the league, I think he's brought players in. He's brought a lot of players in over the last year. So I think he'll want to try and bring them on and stay with them. And if he don't win the league, I think his ego will say to him listen I can't finish with not winning the league or not winning anything depending on the Champions League as well but so I think he'll be there
22:02Wayne Rooney:I hear you laughing at me
22:04Kelly:I'm just laughing because straight away your reaction told me you disagree because I thought
22:07Wayne Rooney:he might have said I think he could be gone that's what surprised me when he said he thinks he'd be there next season what do you think he will want to leave on a trophy one's coming quickly isn't it against Arsenal could yeah does that the one sort of does that enough Do you know what's going to be huge?
22:27David Mooney:You've got the Cup Final, then you play in April. April Arsenal, yeah. Do they meet in the quarterfinals? They could meet in the quarterfinals. So it could be four games.
22:35Kae:I worked this out the other day. They could play, it runs kind of three Arsenal games, Chelsea away in the middle of that and then two more Arsenal games if they draw each other in the Champions League. And they could draw each other in the FA Cup that week as well. So that's going to be so important.
22:50David Mooney:Mentally, whoever comes to that if that's what happens
22:55Wayne Rooney:We were joking about that weren't we about the final does it set the tone we were sat before we came on does that set it to say right give you the confidence booster I feel if the right replacement that the club feels is going to be able to take over Pep I don't think anybody really wants to go after Pep do they like Sir Alex Ferguson etc but if the right person is there now I think it's done I think he will leave at the end of the season but it's going to be a shame it's going to be a massive transition but when he signed a two year contract they weren't ever going to put him on one were they and get it so we got till Christmas and then sort of Pep mentioned it a little bit so he said I will leave at some point I hope he carries on and does another year that's where he is he's been talking of it for some time now but who is the next person and if that's not right I think he's got a really good understanding with the club that he'll have to stay a little bit longer unless he leaves with a wonderful trophy and he says well it's not my problem anymore but the transition is there they've gone much more direct Petlanders just coming as well I think that's always
23:56David Mooney:going to be the case I think you've you say now they haven't got the right person in the summer the right person's always Guardiola they're not as far as the club are concerned the right person is always Guardiola
24:06Wayne Rooney:it's ending isn't it so Maresk is there talk of him do you know would that be early Vincent and company company could be the one as soon as there was talk they give him another contract that's the romantic one isn't it they give him another contract it might be one year too early and then the usual suspects from there on.
24:22Kae:As far as City are concerned, if Guardiola is open to staying, they'll ask him the question, will you stay? So he's their number one at all times. So I understand wanting the right person in place. Why would he even say I will leave at some point?
24:37Wayne Rooney:Because it is true. He's very good, right, with the media. He understands everything he says. I don't know why he would even... It was never even mentioned. There was talks with him. He gets very excited sometimes. People in football would sort of go, we think this is Pep's last year, but no one's really brought it to the front. And then he actually said, it's going to end at some point. I didn't think he would have said, I've got two years.
25:00Kae:He does get excited in these moments. And he says things like that. He said that for a good few years now and then signed a couple of deals in there as well. I honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this was his last season. I wouldn't be surprised if he signed another deal after this one. He is, well, I'm fantastic at that. He's a sick individual who is addicted to football management. There's the social clip. I can see him just going, yeah, go on then. I'll do another two years.
25:33Kelly:How much depends on a trophy? Is it enough? I think everything.
25:38Michael Brown:I don't at all.
25:39Kelly:They win against Arsenal in the EFL Cup final and that'll be enough?
25:43Michael Brown:No, not that. I don't think a Carabao Cup will be enough. I think he wants to go out on a League or a Champions League trophy. One of the big ones. But I think, yeah, if you're Pep Guardiola, you can't leave Manchester City without winning a massive trophy. It's ridiculous. He's not awesome.
25:58Kelly:Don't tell the Newcastle fans the EFL that it's not a big trophy.
26:01Kae:But he doesn't think like a normal person does because he could have left in 2023. He could have done that. He could have won the Champions League, won the treble and gone. But he didn't though. That's the point.
26:10Michael Brown:I think now he has to win something before he leaves. He won't leave. It's Kelly's favourite topic.
26:15Wayne Rooney:Manager choice, is it not? Being a Watford fan, is that right? Yeah? Are you sure? Ed Stills came in. Was it Will Stills? Which one is it? I'm not going to be drawn on this. No? Are you sure? Yeah, they've got a new one. Ed Stills come in, yeah. Looking forward to it, aren't you? This is a Manchester City part. They might have to edit it. There might be a new one by the time they get out again.
26:35David Mooney:I think regardless of what happens, I think the legacy that Pep's going to leave in this country is going to be incredible.
26:42Wayne Rooney:Yeah. I think we're seeing national teams playing out from the back end and stuff,
26:47David Mooney:and that's because of what...
26:48Wayne Rooney:Has everyone followed him? He does. Did you? Do you know when you went and... Did you like doing...?
26:52David Mooney:That's why I got sacked. No, I know.
26:55Wayne Rooney:I mean, following past. Yeah. No, but do you know the basis of it?
27:00David Mooney:You try in certain ways, you try because if you get it right, it looks so good, doesn't it? And it's amazing that that style of football, but then... you need to make a decision on can your players do it and unfortunately a lot of my players couldn't where what Pep's done he's got he has brought some top players in and developed them as well
27:21Wayne Rooney:and some of the players you'd never have said if we got to the level would they
27:25David Mooney:he's developed some players as well which to be able to play in that style and dominate for so long I think I was four in a row and I think the big thing for City this year you're missing Kyle Walker you're missing De Bruyne You know, you're missing some really influential players, both on the pitch and off the pitch in that test room.
27:44Michael Brown:I mean, Wayne's often talked about with, like, United and said, like, part of the reason we lost our identity was because the players that knew what it meant to win things were taken out of that squad and there wasn't anybody to show the newer people there. And I feel like, is that something that sort of happened at City to an extent?
28:01Kae:I think possibly to an extent. But, I mean, you look at, like, year on year. City have been very good in the last 10 years, year on year, slowly regenerating the squad. And then in the last two or three years, it got to the point last season where it was suddenly, oh, there's so many of these players that can't run, that can't do the things anymore. And January came along and it was a big upheaval. And then they signed a few players in the summer and then they've signed a couple of players this January as well. And in three windows there, they've made more signings than they've made in the years gone by.
28:34Kae:And it used to be phase one out, bring one in, phase one out, bring one in, where it's now kind of phase four or five out and bring four or five in. So it is a big change in that respect. And I think, I mean, the one for me, I'd get Nico O 'Reilly and get him to watch Bernardo Silva and just go like this. We've seen recently in a few games, Nico O 'Reilly stepping into midfield and playing... He's getting into the position that needs to be
28:59Wayne Rooney:and he's getting braver actually when he takes the ball.
29:01Kae:And he's taking those positions that Bernardo takes up. and I'm just like but if Bernardo is going to leave at the end of the season then this guy you need to watch him and see what he's doing
29:08Wayne Rooney:Wayne do you know when they say culture do you know like of when you Manchester United so they say it's the DNA of Manchester United and we're always trying to stay with that Michael's gone in now and obviously trying to reproduce that what does how does City like when you've watched Manchester United how does City go and try and follow that method if you think of
29:30David Mooney:all the teams who've won more than one Premier League trophy so you think of Chelsea in that team they had John Terry Lampard Drogba Peter Cech they had a core group of players you think of United when they had the two times when really they've done it with Giggs, Scholes, Keane then the second time with myself Rio, Vidage then players Arsenal, Vieira Henri you have a group of players who are there who the manager won't even have to step foot in the dressing room they run that dressing room and then City had it, I think, with De Bruyne. Gundogan, De Bruyne, yeah. With all them players. So when you have a solid group in the dressing room, they run it for you.
30:14Pep can focus on other things
30:16David Mooney:and then obviously tactically give them what you want. But actually inside dressing room, you don't have to worry. Probably in that four times. And then beyond that, you've seen teams who've won it maybe once because they haven't got that core group.
30:28Wayne Rooney:So if Bernardo's going and Pep's going, you know, is it, Mark Gay has got to learn it very fast. Yeah, so they're going to have to... Phil Foden.
30:36David Mooney:Learn this and that's what I think City are doing now, they're building. And then they're going to have a core group of players who maybe in two or three years' time, they might go and win three Premier Leagues again, or it might be United if they start building stuff.
30:50Michael Brown:But that's why the Phil Foden thing is really disappointing, because he's probably one of the most decorated players at the club right now. Yeah. In the history of the Premier League. Yeah, exactly. It's ridiculous why he's doing it. Yeah, exactly. But you think he'd develop as a leader or something in that squad and stuff as well, which is even more baffling as to why he gets raised out.
31:09Kae:There is also, I mean, you'll know this better than me, but is there not a case of some people... You have different personalities in a dressing room, so you can be a leader in one way or a leader in another way, and you don't have to be the vocal guy.
31:23Michael Brown:No, I don't mean LeVoble, but I just feel like if you have somebody like Phil Foden, he could be doing it in his own way, but it's just baffling that he's out of the side because you want that sort of experience to be in the side, wouldn't you?
31:33Kae:Yeah, I mean, the other side of this as well is he had a bad season last season. He had injuries, he had problems. This season, he has been in and out of the side, but actually when you take his career on a grand level, for most of his career, he's been in the team and he's been doing really well. so he's just like if he gets back to that level then he is the leader in that way I think he's probably suffering from the fact
31:55David Mooney:that when you come to an academy it's easier to leave it out and you'll notice it's easier to leave it out when you've come to Phil Fogham would probably to demand that respect Is he not over that though? To play to demand that respect to play every game he'd probably be better going to an Arsenal somewhere and then he's he's not come to the academy he's been brought into the club it is easier to be left out and you don't get seated the same when you come to the academy I think that's a fact when you come into first team football if you look at I can go to the United players and I spoke with Guy Neville a few weeks ago on it they never got paid anywhere near the same players who they brought in get paid and I think that's the same with every club you get seated a little bit different and unfortunately it looks like that's what's happened to Phil at the minute
32:40Wayne Rooney:It's like when you've said all those players about title winning like three or four of DNA not many have gone like what Phil has have they do you know like they've had a career they've stayed in the team right the way through where Phil's had that Giggs is the only one
32:53Michael Brown:I can sort of think of like really
32:55David Mooney:no but only Giggs he was only when he got older when he got into his 30s he was in and out the same
33:01Wayne Rooney:he just dropped into centre mid didn't he
33:04David Mooney:no problem
33:04Michael Brown:just bust it against Real Madrid at 39 he didn't have had a bad tackle
33:11Wayne Rooney:he had a slight he had a slight change in his career path as I caught him yeah
33:17Kelly:Because of Pep Guardiola's future, how much will that uncertainty affect the players? You've been there when you know a manager's leaving or you don't know what's happening. Will that be getting in?
33:25David Mooney:It'll be some players will want him to leave, some players will want to stay. It depends on if you're in the team or not. And that's the same with any manager. But I hope he stays because I just think for the Premier League, he's brilliant. And you'd want the best managers in the Premier League. and he's set a benchmark over the last 10 years for everyone else to try and Well what about will the charges
33:48Michael Brown:will the charges if the charges come out and they get punished will he leave or will he stay
33:54Kae:I think I think if he no if they're guilty I think he stays I think it's a massive massive like you lot think I'm going to go so I'm going to like if City are in the championship City are in league one league two whatever I'm doing it like you said I wouldn't do it I'm doing it that's the sort That's the sort of person I think he is. There's no chance of League One and League Two.
34:16Wayne Rooney:That's not happening anyways.
34:18Kae:I think he's more likely to leave if they're not guilty.
34:21David Mooney:No, I can't see him. Browning, but you'll be in this manager. They'll have a go, won't they? You're a good player.
34:29Kelly:You are, of course, talking about the 115 charges aimed at them for the alleged financial Premier League rule breaches. The club, of course, strongly deny any wrongdoing. Is it concerning? Is it because it feels like it's something that's thrown at the club every time? Well, all the time.
34:46Kae:Whatever happens, happens. That's kind of the mood music around it now. It maybe was concerning when it first happened, but it's been going on for so long. I think so many of us just live with it now. I don't think like supporting a football team. If they're guilty and punished, if they're not guilty and not punished, then I'm still at the Etihad with my season ticket. and I'm still setting up microphones on a Saturday night at nine o 'clock to record about the game and losing my social life by making podcasts. So it's still like, it's just the story and it's the story of supporting the team. It doesn't really, on the fundamental side of it, it doesn't really affect me.
35:28Kae:The idea of giving up on City because they're found guilty and I've had enough now because they're not winning. No football fan does that. the people I would feel sorry for if they're found guilty are the players that won it because they still had to go out there and do the job. Whether City should have been able to spend that money or not, the players still had to go and win the games. So you feel sorry for
35:51Wayne Rooney:the players? What do you think the players are? The players are just going to go, we've won it, it's in the bag and done. Yeah, we won't contain often. The thing is, I don't think there's going to
36:03David Mooney:be any repercussions. It won't contain often but I wouldn't want a Premier League medal Would you say For instance The one on Goal difference That got took off And we got given A medal You wouldn't want that Because you wouldn't feel Like you've earned it And whatever's happened At board level Or whatever That's Down to them If they get punished They get punished Because of that But I see it as an Ex-player From a player's point of view Who's gone out And worked And won the league In a legitimate way From that point of view It's not their fault No I'm saying
36:33Michael Brown:I don't think anything's Going to happen But I don't think Even if if they get found guilty or whatever, that it's going to take those feelings that they had away from them. Do you know what I mean? They've still got those memories. They've still got those nights that they're going to cherish. But it's just not...
36:48Kelly:Do you not just want it done so that these kind of debates don't keep going on? Because it must be constant, people like Kay.
36:54Kae:I'm all for getting it done. And I'm all for the not guilty verdict when that comes out.
36:59David Mooney:It won't be done for another 10 years. Yeah. That's not getting done. I can't believe it's still going.
37:06Kelly:It feels like it's been going forever, isn't it?
37:08Michael Brown:I can. I mean, when you've got the best lawyers in the world, it's easy to make things like that delayed and delayed and delayed. Why is it when it's Leicester City that happens within a fortnight?
37:17Wayne Rooney:The club don't want this delayed. They want it done as well. I think that's the point of it.
37:22Kelly:I'll tell you what, let's talk about the football a bit more, shall we? Let's bring it back round to the end of the season and how you think this is all going to play out on the pitch.
37:32Kae:So, I think the City side could win the title. Don't sit on that fence again. I think at the moment, I think it's Arsenal's. And I think Arsenal are in a commanding position. If you were to tell me right now that Arsenal lose their heads and finish second, it's happened before. If you were to tell me that City's put a run together, it's happened before. I'd believe that. But right now, as it stands, I think City have got a few issues that they need to sort out in terms of second halves, getting complete 90-minute performances and getting results over the line. And that could just be the difference between City winning the title and not winning the title.
38:09Kae:So I'm optimistic that they could do it. But I think they need to improve between now and the end of the season to do it.
38:17David Mooney:Yeah, I think a big factor is going to be if they meet in the Champions League. I think that emotion around them games, the Caravoc Cup final, the Champions League games, if that's the case, then the game, the emotion around them games and what that'll bring. Whoever comes out on top of them, I think we'll win the league.
38:38Wayne Rooney:Well, it's good, isn't it? Man United, Arsenal, and now Manchester City, Man United. Bit on the fence? Have you got a preference? Who wins it? I'll prefer Arsenal to win it. You prefer Arsenal to win it? Why would you say that?
38:52Kelly:He's also hung his hat the whole season.
38:54Wayne Rooney:I've played for Man United for 13 years. Isn't that the biggest rivalry, though? Yeah. You look back and you sort of go, right, when they were taken, I'd be like, I'd have a bit of hatred there. For me, anyone but Liverpool.
39:05David Mooney:So Liverpool obviously is the one who wouldn't want to win it. And then it'd be City. Listen, I respect Bogo, I respect Liverpool, I respect City, I respect Arsenal. Arsenal fans aren't aware of it. That's the only thing. I know, I know.
39:17Kelly:I could say the same about you, Laura Tons.
39:19Michael Brown:No, but Arsenal fans, man. Oh, mate.
39:23Wayne Rooney:Arsenal should never lose you in that squad, should they?
39:25David Mooney:We were seven points clear. I think it was four games to go, I think. And we were seven points clear. And we lost it.
39:32Michael Brown:Anything's possible, man. And you've won it before. That's the difference where they haven't.
39:36David Mooney:There's 13 games left.
39:37Kelly:13, 14 games. Brownie, who wins it?
39:41Wayne Rooney:I'll say Arsenal at this moment in time. One word is not Arsenal, but I'll happily celebrate when they don't. It's about 15 words.
39:48Michael Brown:I'll put all the pressure on Arsenal just so they bottle it.
39:51Kelly:So you're saying Arsenal? I'm with you. Who wins it? One word. Two if it's Man City, because it's two words.
40:00David Mooney:I think Arsenal just...
40:03Kelly:Two words.
40:05Kae:I'm 64 to Arsenal right now.
40:07Kelly:Of course, there's not much confidence. I almost feel like that's maybe reverse mind games. OK, then.
40:12Kae:I mean, Arsenal, I'm going to see this and go, well, David thinks Arsenal are going to win it.
40:15Michael Brown:So we're under pressure now. You never know with Mikel Arteta. He might clip this up and put it in the dressing room. He's like, that's what they think about you guys. Look. They think you can do it.
40:25Kelly:Will Pep Guardiola be in charge at the start of next season, Kay? Of Man City?
40:30Michael Brown:If City win a trophy, probably not.
40:34Kelly:So no? Do you think they're going to the trophy?
40:36Michael Brown:If they win a trophy, that's the caveat. Yeah.
40:40Kae:Yes.
40:41Kelly:Because he's a sick individual.
40:42Kae:Because he's a sick individual who will never say no. Yes. I think he will go.
40:47Wayne Rooney:I would have said no all day long, but I'm not sure who the replacement is. That's the worry.
40:51Kelly:That was my next question.
40:52Wayne Rooney:That is the only concern. I don't know who can go and replace him. We're sitting next to Xabi Alonso's agent
40:58Kelly:because he brings him up in every podcast. He's going to Liverpool. He's going to Liverpool, apparently.
41:01Wayne Rooney:But he wasn't there, was he? Do you know, it's... Mareskin... It's different.
41:06David Mooney:It's tough. I think if he does go, I think they have to go and get company. I mean, I think he knows the club. He's been successful at Bayern Munich. Obviously, it's not that difficult to be successful at Bayern, but he's been successful in a similar way. It looks like he's learned from how Pep's played.
41:26Kae:And it's a well-trodden path, isn't it, by Munich's assist. The previous one did that. Is that how you'd want as a fan? I would not be disappointed if Vincent Kompany was unveiled as the next manager.
41:36Kelly:Okay, what do you think? I know Alonso is going to Liverpool. We seem to know all these managers.
41:40Michael Brown:I hope it's Steve Bruce or someone, to be honest with you.
41:46Michael Brown:I couldn't care less who's their manager, as long as they're not successful.
41:51Kelly:I think we'll end the show there.
41:53Wayne Rooney:Vinny would have the confidence to go and do so well. He'd work a whole lot. He'd just take it right on. It just might be one... That's the only thing. Buy and give them a new deal. Imagine it was someone like Simeone.
42:07Kae:A complete style change.
42:10Wayne Rooney:So they'll know exactly where they want to be. They're very organic.
42:13Michael Brown:I think City as a club are very well run. So they've probably got a short list of about four or five managers that they're constantly looking at. And they know who's available and how much they can get them from. Pep will probably choose the next manager.
42:25David Mooney:If Pep is going, he'll probably be part of the process. Do you think?
42:29Michael Brown:I don't think that...
42:29David Mooney:To choose the next one?
42:30Michael Brown:I don't think that's wise
42:31Kelly:but they've also got to avoid staying there
42:33Wayne Rooney:like Sir Alex
42:35Kelly:they've also got to be careful to avoid what happens at Manchester United and at Arsenal to an extent when Wenger left
42:41David Mooney:yeah but I just think in terms of Pep I don't know but I think he looks himself as a bit of a teacher and he'll want to bring in someone he'll want to leave he's been at the club for 10 years he'll want to leave the club in a good place and I think
42:57Kae:that's part of the reason he signed that deal last season is he said well no he said he said that someone the form was that bad he was like I can't leave at the end of this deal I need to fix this before I go maybe if it never gets fixed he keeps signing deals
43:14Kelly:and whatever happens it's not going to be dull at Manchester City over the next few months that is for sure that's where we'll leave it guys thank you so much for coming in and joining us we'll be back again on Monday a reminder you can watch the Wayne Rooney show on the BBC iPlayer or on the BBC Sport YouTube or you can listen on BBC Sounds see you next time
43:55Michael Brown:The Six Nations.
44:00David Mooney:on BBC Sounds.
44:04Michael Brown:We focus on the part of the internet that most people don't know about. It's called the dark web. Undercover, in the furthest corners of the dark web, US special agents are on a mission to locate and rescue children from abuse.
44:20Kelly:Move in now. Police!
44:22Michael Brown:From the BBC World Service, World of Secrets, the darkest web follows their shocking investigations. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
From the publisher
We have an in-depth Manchester City special for this episode and Wayne, Kelly and Kae are joined by former City midfielder Michael Brown and podcaster David Mooney. They assess how City’s season has unfolded so far and they discuss whether they will catch Arsenal in the Premier League title race.
There’s a major focus on the future of Pep Guardiola: will this be his final season in Manchester? How much might his decision hinge on whether City win silverware? And why does Wayne want him to stay?
They tackle the big off-field question: how the charges for allegedly breaching Premier League financial rules - strongly denied by Manchester City - could influence Guardiola’s thinking, and whether a guilty verdict could make his departure more likely. Wayne reveals how he would feel if he were retrospectively awarded a Premier League winners’ medal depending on the outcome of the case.
They also look at why Phil Foden’s form has dipped. Is he a victim of tactical evolution, squad rotation, or both?
You can watch The Wayne Rooney Show on BBC Sport YouTube, iPlayer, as well as listen on BBC Sounds.