Manchester United's Derby Woes & Remembering Ricky Hatton

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0:30at Whole Foods Market. It's less than one point a game, which in quite a lot of primary seasons, that's relegation for them. I've got a fancy league team. I had Mo Salah as captain. I took Salah and put in vice-captain and put Harlan captain. And they're still playing Burnley and Manchester City playing Man United. It's a big concern. Jason Park, so he took us out to a Korean karaoke and he played the song, and the actual singer of the song come in. There was a song called Honey Honey, which he changed to Rooney Rooney. Very good. This show always talks about all the big footballing stories, so we'll come on to the Manchester Derby and Wayne's trip to Korea very shortly.

1:14But today, sadly, there is only one place we can start. As on Sunday, the Derby paled into insignificance as it was announced ahead of kick-off that the city had lost one of their most famous sons, boxing legend and City fan Ricky Hatton, aged just 46. And Wayne, he was actually someone that you knew personally, wasn't he? Yeah, he was. It was devastating, heartbreaking. We obviously played the game over here in Korea and the minute I walked off the pitch, someone told me that he passed away. Just devastating. Ricky was such a good lad a good person and I don't know really what to say on it it's so sad that someone at such a young age was his whole life still ahead of him and I think he was due to fight in an exhibition match as well in Saudi Arabia I think to hear that news is just devastating I've been in Ricky's company many times and kind of spelt into the ring against Castillo in Las Vegas and I think he's someone who he's probably someone who captured the nation really in terms of the support he got who followed him all around the world in boxing so yeah it's devastating and it's heartbreaking and I just want to pay my condolences to his family and everyone who's really close to him because it's way too soon.

3:01Yeah, it's incredibly sad and as you said, he did kind of capture the hearts of the whole nation. You're a United legend. He supported Manchester City. Give us an insight into what he was like as a person because you said then you did spend time in his company. Yeah, he's a very lively person and a happy person. Remember after the fight, after the Castillo fight, we went to, I can't remember what hotel it was, we went to a beach party in Las Vegas and there was me and Ricky's wife at the time and Matthew, his brother and his wife and me and Cleon. And I had a very good day. He just won, retained his world title.

3:44I had a great day and again on Valentine's Day we we spent time together and I think you each one everyone loved each one everyone can relate to I think so often nowadays you can you see you know people in any line of all any type of celebrity really and you see a lot of them who are not really relatable and Ricky was certainly relatable and and and very good fun to be around and and of course I think we all know he has had issues throughout his life him which a lot of us have for him to come in after the games I in here that news was just devastating and it still hasn't really sunk in him with me him I think him because you know that how lovable he was and we see boxing now and we see how much it's grown with the new businesses coming into it but Ricky was the one who no matter where the fight was and a lot of the time was in Vegas or Manchester and the support he got and people spending the money to go and watch him because he was so relatable and he felt like he was one of theirs even though he was from Manchester you had a lot of people from Liverpool, from London wherever it was to go and to follow him because he made them proud to be English it's just devastating I've also got to ask you just what was it like for you carrying his belt into the ring I imagine it feels like an even more special experience now yeah it's one of the after the game I look back at the picture and how young we were looking it's one of the most nervous I think I've been because firstly he wasn't obviously preparing for the fight but I was in the pool the whole day in Vegas and it was hotter and my face got a bit burnt but I remember standing in the dressing room and just being nervous because he'd never lost at that time and just thinking I hope he doesn't lose tonight because is it on you is it part of your fault but yeah no it's just a lovely person and I think he was in a new relationship as well.

6:08So it's just so sad to hear the news. Yeah, I don't really know what else to say. I don't think it's really fully kicked in, to be honest. And I'm sure over the next few days, from everyone across the country, we'll see a lot of messages. I think people will understand what a really true gentleman and a good person he was. yeah beautiful tribute Wayne rest in peace Ricky Hattam okay well we did promise that we would dissect the Manchester derbies okay we have to

6:46Kae Kurd:can we not just talk about something else it's been a really eventful week Wayne's had a great time in Korea can we not just talk about that we can come on to Korea but I think we have to address the Manchester derby you can go first I know you're both itching to talk about it I'm happy to leave Kay with this one this could be quite a short podcast isn't it at this rate do you know what I think the same things that Wayne was mentioning game week two or game week one whatever it's just the same we're seeing the same things gaps in midfield you know we're just being diced apart doesn't seem to be any improvement no new ideas forwards like Shesko aren't getting any service and it's just the same old story.

7:32It doesn't feel like anything's changed since last season.

7:37Kae Kurd:And that brief bit of optimism we had after the Arsenal game has all dissipated. I can't see where it goes from here that looks positive. We've got one game a week and at this point I'm like, let's just, there was this news about midweek friendlies being played in Dubai and Saudi Arabia just to bring in a bit of cash and I'm just like, yeah, might as well do those because at least we might see the team win. But yeah, morale's totally gone, I think, with myself. I don't know how you feel, Wayne. Well, we've just watched it. Quite a lot of the lads we played the game with today and I don't think anyone can really understand and comprehend what is going on.

8:24And you've just said there the optimism after the Arsenal game. which ultimately we lost. Yeah. And then to how low it felt after Grimsby and obviously you get the win against Burnley, which Man Utd are home to Burnley, should be winning anyway. And then watching the derby today, the one thing you can lose against Manchester City, a good team. So at the end, you can lose that game, but I'm watching it. I didn't see a tackle. I didn't see, you know, even when it goes to 2-0, 3-0, I didn't see anyone saying, you know, I'm not having this and taking the yellow card or putting the tackle in and that passion and desire.

9:15It's continuing and continuing to, at this minute, and listen, I want to be as supportive and as positive as it can be on the manager, on the players, but it's very difficult to sit here and say, you know, we're seeing a progression, we're seeing how the, you know, at least we're seeing things which, you know, will get results in the near future, but just not seeing none of that, and it's very difficult for the fans. There's an image towards the end of the game where I've seen the Man United fans leaving. I've never seen them. well in my time I've never seen Man United fans leaving and you could hear the fans singing Amaran's name but I think that is so powerful that the Man United fans were leaving the game because they knew the game was over and I think they were very disappointed in what they're seeing so it's it's it's hard to see how it continues Wayne just you mentioned that you were watching it with the lads just explain exactly who you were watching it with and their thoughts, because I think everyone listening to this will be quite intrigued, because there was a few United legends with you, wasn't there?

10:31Yeah, there was me, Rio, Vintage, Michael Carrick, and then Mekon, Robert Perez, Gilberto Silva, Bastian Swanstager, Ashley Cole, and we're all watching him. And I asked the question, we all struggled to give how we see Man United play and if we actually sit down and watch Man United for a six game period what the patterns what like what we see in which you know might improve the team moving forward and everyone has struggled and listen we've all played the game at the highest level all the players who I've just mentioned and it's very difficult to see that so I meet more than anyone I want to see the club doing well but it's very difficult to I think we have to be honest and the difficulty we have and I've spoken I was speaking with Rio yesterday on this is we want to support the team we want to support the manager as best we can but we also have to be honest as well because the fans are not are not fools and we have to give our honest opinion on what we're seeing and that does put us in uncomfortable positions at times and Rio was out with the team in Chicago pre-season obviously I go into the team ran quite a lot with my children and it does put us in an uncomfortable position but we have to be honest in what we're seeing and frankly it's just not good enough.

11:55Kae Kurd:Yeah, I mean what you said about the patterns of play was I think really important. I think City haven't been off to a flyer recently and even today you saw certain gaps in their midfield and stuff but the difference is that they could fall back on certain patterns of play that they know how to do whereas like you said with this team it doesn't seem that they even have that. City weren't great at all I think it's one of the worst Manchester I've seen for a long time and Man City played their part in that as well but still come out and win the game 3-0 so I think City are still trying to find their feet obviously they've got a few new players and a couple of new coaches in there as well and playing in maybe a little bit of a different style I think it's come up towards the end 65-64 % possession in which over the last few years that that would have been good so that's no chance against man city at the etihad it was always city a fan a different way but what's important when you're trying to implement a new style is in you win games as well while you're doing that and in 40 for man united and i think for the manager it's it's been just not not too far off a year now and I think it's less than one point a game yeah but we were three points off of top four when he took over so I think it's less than one point a game which in quite a lot of the Premier League seasons that's relegation from which it's over nearly a period it's it's hard it's very difficult at the minute you know Kay is a Man United fan it's it's tough to watch and to see so I will try and defend it to a certain point, but I'm struggling to find a way to do that at the minimum.

13:49This is the flattest I've ever sensed you two being after a game. I was kind of desperately hoping to see some green shoots from Manchester United so we could pick up on them. But is that what's frustrating you most, Kay, that Ruben Amrim is welded to how he wants this United side to play and nothing's changing.

14:08Kae Kurd:Yeah, I think a lot of the fan base aren't optimistic anymore because like you said, it's just the lack of improvement and seeing the same things over and over again, I think that's the most annoying part of it. And especially when you're seeing players like Cescone, you know, you're meant to play to his strengths. There's not a cross going in that reaches him. He's not getting any sort of service. Well, did he put a lot of crosses in the box? To be fair. None to him. Well, that's the one positive I will find is he did put a lot of cross in the box. He did put a lot of cross in the box. And he did get in some really good areas.

14:45What did you make of Szczesko though? I didn't really have many opportunities and looked a little bit off it in fairness, fitness wise. But I thought Man Utd got in some really good areas at times. But again, that's what I was saying when I was talking about pattern to play when you get into good areas then you look for things what have you been working on if you get in this area you come back out is it a short set where you can cross first time you come back out to go back to the other side you come back out to find a slip ball in behind and it looked like the crosses were just getting put in there for the sake of it and then what I will say for any centre forward or sesco is when that's happening it's very difficult the time you run and the Tangier on the end thing.

15:36But that was the one positive. Man United did get into fairly good areas, actually. Sorry to keep focusing on the negatives, but I wanted to ask you about the midfield because you've identified that before. Okay, I can tell you're ready to go on this, aren't you?

15:50Kae Kurd:No, I was just thinking what midfield, but yeah, continue. Well, I was just going to ask you about the midfield. Maybe you've answered my question by saying that. Is that a big part of United's problem? 100%. Matches are won and lost in midfield. Wayne will tell you that. Wayne will tell us that the strikers win and win and lose you matches. I played midfield today and that's where the game is won and lost. But yeah, like Bruno Fernandes is an essential midfielder. He works better as a 10. And I thought, given that, you know, Cunha wasn't there today, we'd probably see him further up and it'd be a chance for Kobi Menuh to sort of prove himself to the manager.

16:29Kae Kurd:But that never materialised. and you saw we had the same issues that we've had all season when Ugarte and Bruno have played in that role. I'll just flip back if you just bear with me. We played in the game today and it was me and Clarence Seidoff in midfield. It was a very attacking team against a very defensive team. So they played with no centre-forward. So what happened is they flooded the midfield and they had like five or six players. So for me and Clarence, it was very difficult. But then your experience comes in, you're like okay we put ourselves in the right position I think the problem with this system is having two in midfield who one is Bruno Bruno's a fantastic player and scored so many great goals and being Man United the best player for the last couple of seasons but you do want to see him be further forward the guard take coming today hasn't played much this season and Casemiro is getting towards the later end of his career if you're struggling you have to put three in midfield and you have to put three in midfield and give yourself a chance to compete in there and then if that means you lose your wild players but then you can put two up front so you can go 5-3-2 whatever because my night's problem I think well since the Ruben's come in and played the system is having two midfields in the Premier League the players have not got the energy in the legs to cover the full width of the pitch and go up and down and they're getting overrun and overpowered in that midfield and I think the more if he continues to play two midfield listen I've had my time as a manager and I know how how it works and I know how it is when someone else you know looks and critiques your formation whatever I completely understand that but I think it's so obvious if you said to me I was sat I was sat today actually after the game for about 45 minutes with with McAuley and we're talking about playing midfield unless you've got two generals in midfield who are going to control they're going to talk they're going to organise in there, you have to put three in there.

18:58And unfortunately, I don't think Man United have got two players who can do that. Quite telling, I think it was very similar to what Bruno Fernandes said in his post-match comments case. So the players are clearly feeling it and know what's wrong at the moment.

19:10Kae Kurd:Yeah, everyone does. And I think he's become a bit predictable, not only in his system and his refusal to adapt, but even in the substitutions he makes. You know every game he's going to substitute, if not one, maybe two of the defenders. he brought he brought Maguire on a bit earlier though I was hoping he went up front but he didn't but that's that there you go like even even you're saying like he brought Maguire on again like you know it's going to happen in a game well Harry should be starting I've seen I've seen Jimmy Floyd Hassbank talking about and saying how much England missed Harry Maguire at the Oros because he's a leader and I'm sitting there and thinking how is he not playing with the three defenders who were playing he should be in there and there's a lack of leadership it's clear to you do you know what Bueno I thought was the best play he kept going he kept trying and he was the one I felt sorry for him at the end he was the one who kept you know he had a few shots he missed the target no problem but in fairness to him he was the one who I thought you know a fair play to him because he kept going I think a few of the lads like Kobe Maynard with he didn't get a move away I've seen apparently he asked for a long move which that's concerning if an 18 year old lad from Manchester is asking to leave the club that's very concerning but he comes on the pitch and he's jogging around and we know what potential he's got and he might be a bit annoyed and frustrated but you come on and the Etihad against Man City you want to see more and if you want to get in the team you want to see more so I think there's a clear lack of leadership in there and when that is the case.

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21:30Let's try and throw this forward then. I don't know if you're going to be happy with me or not for saying the next seven games. Chelsea at home, Brentford away, Sunderland at home. Then you've got Liverpool away, Brighton Forest, Spurs. I was going to ask you how many will they win, but that feels a bit cruel to ask you that at this point. In fact, let's not even look at the next seven games. It feels like we've got to take it a game at a time at the moment. Chelsea at home isn't an easy game next, Kay. How does he change this? What do you want to see? As you said, they haven't got European football.

22:01There should be a benefit to that. They've got the whole week training to, I don't know, make this system better, make it work for them.

22:08Kae Kurd:Look, I mean, I've... You're out of answers, aren't you? Yeah, I am. I just think... I do... I go back to what Wayne's saying was, you've got to put three in midfield. You've just got to change the formation. Will he do it, though? He's not going to do it. He's not going to do it. And we're going to go in and Garnaccio is probably going to score against us and celebrate. And the articles on the back pages will be Garnaccio shows his old club what's what. And that's what's going to happen. I can't see anything happening in that game that's going to change. The only dramatic change that needs to happen, looks like it will happen, it's just going to be a long drawn-out process before it does, is Amarim going.

22:48Do you think so, Wayne? How does this play out? I think Man United are capable of beating any team. I really do. On the day. But there's just a complete lack of consistency and a lack of, as I said before, leadership. You just don't know. I have no idea. Going into every Man United game, whether it's Chelsea next game, whether it's Forest or Liverpool or the game... It almost felt irrelevant me listing those, to be honest. Yeah, I have no idea what is going to happen. I think we're fed up with listening to excuses and from, oh, we go again and whatever. I think there's a big problem there. And I think the club have done the right thing in terms of the players they've got rid of.

23:40And of course, I hope it works massively for the manager from everything I've heard he's a good person a good fella but we need to start seeing that football is a game and the Man United fans are as loyal as you're ever going to get as I said before they're singing his name and what you don't want to see is that turn I don't think you want to see the United fans turn because they don't do that but I think it's after the last year when Tanah got sacked and Amron comes in we're here now they're going to play and how it's going you know it's going to change and entertain and I think if the manager is honest with himself it's got worse quite a lot so yeah I think hopefully they win the Chelsea game and just hoping we do have to focus on the Manchester City side of things I think this is probably just rubbing salt in the wounds guys sorry but we do have to talk about it.

24:44Roy Keane said on TV that it was like City looked like they'd had a reset, that the international break probably came at a good time for them, that there was a different feel to them today. Did you feel that, Wayne? Yeah, I did, but I also thought they were sloppy. I thought, especially the first period of the game, I thought both teams were a bit nervous. There was a lot of balls getting a bit like a pinball machine at times and a lot of misplaced passes. But then I think once they got the goal, you could see the confidence. I think the keeper made a big difference even just, I know he made a good save from Bernal but then just little things which maybe you know why he brought him in, Edson maybe might not only come through people, he punched a few a few out, I think his detailed pass weren't great, to the wrong foot but Man United's pass weren't great on that as well but yeah I think Haaland backscored and obviously for Norway obviously getting the two goals I think from City's point of view it's a massive win because I think whoever lost this game is going to get criticised a lot I think

25:54Kae Kurd:I think City weren't at their best at all today and I think the State Man United are in at the moment we make teams look better than they are on the day well I think do you know on I've got a fancy league team I'll be honest with you I had Mo Salah as captain So did I Wayne There's a bigger headline that Wayne Rooney had him as captain No but before this round of games I took Salah and put him vice captain and put Haaland captain and Liverpool were playing Burnley and Manchester City were playing Man United That says all we need to know really doesn't it I was thinking about it before and I was thinking even that is a big concern I don't even know where to pick up from that because that is a headline that United legend was between a Liverpool player and a City player for their captain.

26:46But it maybe does say... It's a women's situation because if they don't do well then obviously I'm happy. Yeah. So you're not that optimistic about City today. You're saying United maybe made them look a little bit better than they are. But have you seen enough from them, Wayne, to think they're going to challenge for the team? I think they're changing the style. I think Pep's done this quite a few times and a little bit more direct and a bit more balls in behind. They're not playing around the opposition's box quite as much as they used to. They don't have the control of games this season. I don't think they've done that apart from the Wolves game quite as much as they used to.

27:26Again, it's what I was saying about Man United before. With City, it takes time to adjust to a new style you don't know whether that's from the new coaches I did a little bit of input on that as well but what they've done today and what they've done two or three times this season is when they're adjusting the winning games and that's the most important thing because what that does that gives you buy-in from the players the players believe in what you're telling them to do of course they will with Pep Guardiola anyway because there's high level of coaching but when you win games, even further, it makes you believe even more.

28:06But yeah, I think City are not what they was over the last two, three, four years, but with Guardiola, you just don't know what is going to happen. You wouldn't surprise if they went on a 15-game unbeaten run.

28:20Kae Kurd:But Wayne, doesn't that just show you what a good manager is all about? Adaptability, evolving your style, changing it depending on what players you have or looking at the challenges that you're faced with and if everybody starts to play like you, you have to change what you're doing. Don't you think what City are going through proves that? I think we've all been sat here thinking, why is Phil Foden not playing this season? As he had the injury, has Pep been trying to get more out of him, trying to get him back on track?

28:55He's probably questioned him a little bit in the media as well at times. and then straight away bang St. Nesson Manchester, I thought he was brilliant today Foden so that's management he's managing he's if you have questions as a player then you want to go and prove yourself again so you don't know if that's the case or he has had the injury and he's come back into it but he's sat on the bench a few games this season and the peps thought I can afford to do that the first few games of the season because I need Phil Foden as best and I'm going to get into his head to make sure he is as best when I bring him in a team.

29:33Well, even like the decisions as well

29:34Kae Kurd:were like both teams have bought a keeper during the window and one's gone, yeah, let's stick him in and then the other one's gone, actually, no, let's just keep him on a bench even though we've got a keeper that is below standards. Yeah, well, I think that was already as well. You don't know if that was a panic buy. I don't know, I'm being honest, don't know to that much about the new keeper I don't think many of us have seen that much of a mile out do some research and I would look for him if you find a new keeper and he's not ready to come in as a bit of concern where state away Donna rumor comes in and comfortable clean sheet so that's the big difference and that was me pulling things after the first was first game of the season first game of the season Man United should go and get on a rumour and whether financially they could or he wanted to come they want to come you don't know but in the end we've ended up with another project and we've signed the keeper on potential there's always a risk Okay well let's move on because Wayne you've mentioned it a few times you are in Korea you played in midfield which is a headline in itself I think but how's your trip been and how was the game?

30:52Yeah it's been great we've had some funny days what day are we on now Sunday night I think you were in the early hold on what time is it yeah so I'm Monday morning I'm like 3.30 Monday morning now but so yesterday before the game Jason Park played for us and so he took us out in the morning to a Korean karaoke so there was me, Kara Schweinsteiger village and decent park um sat in this little room and he played the song but an actual singer the song come in and was singing it was it was so awkward like what were you meant to do and then the second one put the second song on the singer that one come on and he was very extravagant and it was a song called honey honey which he changed to rooney rooney very good so yeah it was very awkward and then the day before we jeez sung park again took us out for some korean food for lunch and to all try some korean school uniform on which was quite strange i had so many questions about those photos because people have seen them doing the rounds on social media okay i imagine you've seen them as well

32:12Kae Kurd:yeah i saw one where you had your your hand up in the air like that and you were looking to describe. It's so awkward and cringy. Do you know what? I think just for Jason Park, we all done it. We love him that much. We all said, okay, we'll just do it. I mean, we all knew how cringy and how bad it looked. Why school you? Why was Rio tiptoeing? Yeah, sorry, we've got so many questions. We're firing them at you. I don't know. Well, I didn't put the trousers on. I said, oh, I'll put the shirt and the jacket and the tie on. You didn't tuck your shirt in, I noticed, after talking about shirts last week.

32:48Yeah, because I went for the naughty schoolboy look. Ah, okay, yeah. So I went for that look. No, but it's been great. I've been here a few times, but it was nice actually for G as well to take us out and show us around. And we went to one of the, I don't know what it was called, but one of the famous towers here. And there's like a, like you have in Paris where you have to lock, where you write a message and make a wish. yeah yeah it was like one of them and so me and swanstag had done a message each on either side of of the lock so man was um basti can you please take me to walk for oktoberfest what was his uh i don't know oh no he said yes i will and he said that and but you have to wear the outfit which they wear over there i don't know what to call the german outfit later hosen is that what it is I don't know is that going to happen I don't know we're going to try and organise it I'll fly to Munich

33:49Kae Kurd:myself just to see that I think a lot of United fans will it's been good the fans are crazy we arrive here and there's thousands of fans at the airport and tonight at the game I think there was 68 ,000 fans there was 40 ,000 fans at the train session last night so yeah and to be on the pitch with, I've already mentioned a lot of them, but with the talent to be on the pitch and Arsene Wenger managed our team and Benitez managed the other team and it's been like a bit surreal to be honest. And you scored, well, it was like rolling back the years, wasn't it? You scored a pretty good goal. Yeah, I did.