Potter’s Pressure, Arsenal’s Late Equaliser & Man Utd’s Gaming Edge

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1:07That's O-D-O-O dot com. I scored a half-decent volley and then I was playing centre-back and I went back and I tried to cross-turn. And Wayne, Paul called me over, he was managing. He went, what are you doing? You score a good volley and then you're messing around at the back. You're trying to just pass the ball, you're not that kind of, yeah. There's points throughout the season, which only time will tell, of course. but they end up being massive. If Arsenal win the league by one point, you look back on this game and say, you know what, that was a massive result. True story, this Man United, I rarely believed a big part of our success was playing in the PSP.

1:44Really? Why? First question's first, Wayne. A mixed weekend in your household with Manchester United winning, Everton losing at Anfield, but I want to know, has that Liverpool banner gone back up outside your house, courtesy of your wife? I hope not. I haven't been home yet. No, I done match the day yesterday and I come to Scotland for a charity day. So I haven't been home so yet, but it better not be up anyway, that's for sure. Okay, I'm here for this. Colleen replied on social media and we've actually seen photo evidence of the banner. She takes it very seriously. Do you know what?

2:26Kae Kurd:It was worse than I thought. It was so much bigger than I thought. When he said he'd put, when she put up a flag, I thought it was like a tiny thing. That was huge. I've got to respect the fact, obviously, she's a Liverpool fan and yeah, I respect that. But yeah, I can't have Liverpool flags up on me house. That's kind of that. 2.4 million impressions it got on social media. So everyone else has enjoyed it, Wayne, even if you haven't. As for the Merseyside derby, a pretty impressive showing from Everton. They made it interesting in that second half, albeit, of course, losing in the end. Yeah, they did.

3:05I thought second half they were good, Everton. I thought Liverpool looked like they got a bit tired. But yeah, I thought Everton played really well second half. First half, I thought Everton were poor, which sometimes happens at Anfield when Everton go there. and the goals were sloppy goals kind of guided and tracked back and Michael Keane maybe got sucked over a little bit too far but the goals were sloppy goals and when you go into a derby you know you have to shuffle hard and you have to track back and stay with your runners and that cost Everton and that's ultimately what won Liverpool a game but the reaction was very good I thought second half Everton were very good and were unlucky in the end not to get anything out of the game and I've seen Jack's rant about the referee which I agree with I thought the referee two or three times stopped them from taking quick free kicks and maybe he wanted to breathe and wanted to rest but in that situation I can understand why Jack got frustrated and was having a goal to referee because you're trying to get back in the game and the referee has completely stopped that momentum

4:09Kae Kurd:Those comments were refreshing it was actually nice to hear a player talk so open and honest about a decision rather than give a PR media trained answer it was like he said what was on his mind and I really appreciated that and I agreed with everything he said. Yeah, it was actually a good game though, wasn't it, overall? Yeah, it was. I would have liked to see a few more tackles. For the Merseyside derby, you want to see a few more tackles and especially first half, I thought there was a couple of chances for Devon lads to leave one on the Liverpool players and you'd expect that in the derby.

4:46But I suppose that's the way the game has gone and the way players are getting booked in yellow and red cards nowadays, it's probably more difficult to do that. So I understand that. But yeah, it was a game of two halves really. Liverpool took their chances in Everton when they had some good half opportunity, second half, just couldn't manage to get the second goal. And the good news for me, I'm not a Manchester United fan. I'm very much neutral on this podcast. But when Manchester United do win, I do always think of the show and think, it's going to be a slightly easier evening for me.

5:18Kae Kurd:Three points off top four. I knew you'd say that before I even finished my sentence. Do you know what? I thought even with 11 men, I thought they started the game really well and caused Chelsea problems. And then when Chelsea went to 10 men, I was worried. I was. I was thinking, it's just like United now to go and lose the game. And then I think that would have brought a whole lot of more pressure on the manager. but I thought they played really well first half and then second half it's silly it's naive from Casemiro as soon as he got his yellow card I was watching it in the BBC studios with Danny Murphy and I said I'd take him off he's going to get sent off he just knew what was going to happen and it could have cost us in the end and I think what I liked in the second half was the discipline from United the defender well and kept the ball in front of them and Chelsea were poor I told Chelsea it was slow and moving the ball side to side, but not really trying to penetrate.

6:19The only two crosses they put in the box is the one for the goal and one late on, which caused another big chance. But I think you have to praise Man United, in those conditions as well. Showed a lot of discipline and that's a huge win. How big do you think that result was for Ruben and Mroomke?

6:37Kae Kurd:Listen, I think it's possibly a turning point, but he has to continue. but he has to continue he has to continue winning games I've quite openly lost faith in him but with results like that he's bringing some of it back but I can't I can't be over the moon. Okay just let's enjoy the three points. Yeah no but that's it, but that's it, like I enjoy it I enjoy it, yeah I know, but I need to see back to back wins Wayne, come on man Yeah I know but let's just enjoy it Chelsea have a good team Three points off top four three players off top early in the season so let's let's enjoy listen I was I was on here last week and you've probably seen how down I was and upset I was with with what was going on and the results and stuff so I'm happy hammering let's get behind he's the man when my mum text me after she'd listened and she said oh Wayne sounded very down about Manchester United last week I said in his defence it was also 3am in Korea he didn't work yeah well I was to be honest and I was down and I had a couple of glasses of wine as well and some of the emotions were probably coming out but yeah no listen I think and Amaran has said it's a results business and they have played some good stuff at times this season but just couldn't get over the line so you hope that gives the players confidence now and to go on a bit of a run and pick up results because as we've seen today teams are dropping points obviously Liverpool and both other teams are dropping points so there's an opportunity for Man Utd to maybe go on a bit of a run and bring confidence back in, you know, and try and have a good season.

8:18Kae Kurd:There was a positive with going down to 10 men. He had to finally change his system. So that was a nice thing to see. Okay, let's move on then to one of the other big stories from the weekend. The rumours around Graham Potter's future at West Ham continue to circulate after another disappointing results at the London Stadium. Losing at home, this time to Crystal Palace by two goals to one. They pegged it back to one all courtesy of Jared Bowen, but then another Crystal Palace goal condemned them to yet another defeat. Just one win so far this season. So let's bring in a couple of West Ham fans to talk about it.

8:53Governor B and Tom Davis. And firstly, Tom and Wayne, you guys have met before. Last time I was seeing Tom was at Socrates and he was limping around. So I'm waiting for his opinions now because I'm going to critique his one as well. That's one of my favourite ever moments of my career. I've done some pretty amazing stuff, but I scored a half-decent volley, and then I was playing centre-back, and I went back, and I tried to cruis turn away from, I can't remember who it was, and Wayne, Paul called me over, he was managing, he went, what are you doing, you score a good volley, then you mess around at the back, you're trying to, you're trying, just pass the ball, you're not that kind of, yeah.

9:27It was a pretty incredible experience.

9:29Kae Kurd:That was the most memorable soccer aid performance I've seen, 10 minutes, and you were off. I got injured, I went way up to me, I was starting at Old Trafford, was oh this is great you know do you know on that one it was um it was chunks mr penalty didn't he yeah yeah yeah oh mate and he was heartbroken in the in the dressing room after the game he was he was close to tears and i spoke to him after the game and john terry was sat about three seats down i said so i said so i said i said mate this is a charity game so imagine how we felt missing in the champions league final i said so like cheer up you okay yeah the best thing of that was the party after.

10:06That was unreal. I remember Dermot Kennedy just sitting on an acoustic guitar singing. Oh, good's his voice. His voice is amazing. That was, what voice, yeah. It was a pretty special one, that. But we aren't just here to reminisce about the good times, I'm afraid, guys. A really difficult start to the season after a pretty tough last season as well. Governor, how are you feeling about everything? I'm guessing not that happy. Yeah, I was about to say, man. You know the answer to that question already. a bit rhetorical isn't it sorry yeah you know I was actually quite optimistic at the start of the season because we haven't won at home for quite a long time um even going into last season but I was like put against a pre-season under his belt a few signings through the door and we'll be all right um a few games later still haven't won at home and yeah man for me it's not great I think the midfield is a big cause for concern that's just glaringly obvious to me we just can't seem to get control of many games and I think that's a big area and obviously we've let in a lot of goals from set pieces, I think it's seven set pieces have conceded in five games and for me, I don't want to simplify the game, I know we've got professional footballers on here but how hard can it be like everyone get a man and don't lose your man Well I analysed the set pieces yesterday, last night on Match of the Day and it's all second balls and Grain Potter to come out and said they've been working on set players so as a coach there's only so much you can do but they're not winning the first and then the problem is they're not reacting quick enough and then the second ball they're conceding goals so it's crazy to concede seven from five but when you have a lack of confidence and a lack of belief I think that's clear with the West Ham players and the fans as well I can imagine there's a lack of belief in the team it looks like the owners and the manager so I can imagine it's not a good place to be for you guys at the minute is it Potter in or out that's what I want to know is it Potter in or out I think I think the trouble is right is that we've you've had a pre-season and I don't know but we've we've now this is like the third manager in that many seasons where we're and we're signing he's picked these signings apparently allegedly right they're his players so it's four or five games in and you're talking you're going to get rid of him bring someone else in who's going to have another if for example it's Nuno don't get me wrong I think the players we've actually brought in a decent enough players but it's a whole different style then and I think that I just I feel like when you look at the other teams like Palace yesterday or Brentford or the teams that we're around each of them has like a clear style Brighton for example who now leaps and bounds but Brighton I sort of know one of the owners there and the way that they talk about the infrastructure and the club and what it means to be a Brighton manager or Palace manager or a Brentford manager or anyone around, they feel like they've got an actual style and they've got a tone of play.

13:02We don't have that. We've flipped and we've flopped. For example, now we'll lose, potentially looks like Potter's going. Who comes in next is going to be a wild change. I'd like to see someone like Kieran come in from Ipswich. I think he'd be good. But for me, I think it runs so deep. I went on soccer. I think you talked about this before, but I went on soccer AM when we first moved. and like you know I was never sure about the move I think to step us forward it was an amazing thing but we all know that and I think Everton looking at what they've done is incredible and makes them want to Everton fans but for me I think But you just wanted you just wanted to move his yard No I didn't No no no no I don't think he's given back to us There are certain fans who wanted I never wanted look I would always be indebted to David for bringing us our first you know a trophy and also I actually didn't think we were ready to get rid of him like don't get me wrong I think it was bad to keep him but there was a lot of people there, Wayne, you're right, who, be careful what you wish for, do you know what I mean?

13:59And I think it's interesting with Potter because I feel, I don't know, Wayne, you'd know more than me, but I think for players... I think what you've just said before, I think when you said about Brentford and Brighton having a clear way of playing, and that's because the club identified the managers to come in and they've all had the club, have got their own philosophy, regardless of who the manager is they bring in and they stick to that and that's why you've seen a progression with them clubs. I think what's happening with West Ham at the minute is obviously Moisey goes. Moisey's got a completely different style to Graeme Potter.

14:36For instance, in Slavin Village before, I know that was a while ago, maybe talk of him coming back in at some point as a different philosophy and when you're changing from philosophy to philosophy which Man United have been doing in terms of Ten Hag and now Reuben is a completely different way. It takes time to then get players out, get players in, and then before you know it, that manager doesn't get the results and then they're gone and you're back to square one. So I think for the club to have a good foundation would help. I've heard about it, similar with Man United, where they're saying that Man United has a way of playing, which is great.

15:17but if you haven't got the players to do that and I've heard West Ham, you know, the West Ham way which is probably going back to the 60s. You are, you are. It's this bizarre thing that people that are like, you know, even my age talk about the West Ham way. What's your definition of the West Ham way, Tom? I think the best team for me anyway was the Carrick, Cole, Rio. That team of youngsters coming through, that was a team where I was like, I was a bit younger myself and that was a team where I was like, you could get behind and there were young kids coming through the youth team. It was an exciting time to be a West Ham fan.

15:51I think Bilic's team was an exciting time. I don't, you know, I don't know if there's even a way of playing what people sometimes deem the West Ham funny to be anymore. But I certainly think it's very strange, you know, Tobedo, for example, you know what it was like, Gough, before everyone's talking about FPL and everything and we signed this kid for 35 million to play centre-back. That's a lot of money for anyone, considering the lad Arsenal brought in for 13 that's 35 million for a centre-back win and he's not even playing he's not you know Bissaka Bissaka was quite led heads and shoulders above anyone last season and again not playing you're like so you start wondering what's going on who's brought in Tobito

16:30Kae Kurd:what's happened because like Graham with managers they don't become bad managers overnight and like I think he has he's taken his time to become an absolute short manager this is the thing about managers right? Whoever, if Pep comes in tomorrow, he's still got a midfield he's got Mateus Fernandes who I think is a good sign and I think he's the closest I think he's a good sign. He's our ball winner right? But then you've got James Ward-Prowse expert professional decent at set pieces, good passer right? Nice lad. He's got to control the game from the midfield. You won't grab it by the scruff of the neck and then you've got Paqueta who again has his moments can find a good pass and all that kind of stuff but you look at the Palace game the way Wharton and Hughes as that double pivot controlled the midfield like we weren't getting anywhere near them and we haven't got a player like Wharton just to grab the grain by the scruff of the neck and control it and I think whoever the manager is that comes in if there is one he's still got that midfield to deal with and it's not great but also Gov the thing that really frustrates me I talked to Harry we were saying about I worked with Harry Maguire recently I was talking to him about West Ham and pre-season we played Potts centre midfield all pre-season he looked like we've got a young kid coming through the academy he's had a couple of seasons on loan in Championship League One teams he's got a bit of bite about him he's not Adam Wharton I think that he's a unique talent but Pottsy's like he puts his foot in and Harry was saying this kid looked good we were all like in the midfield he looked decent people were talking about him and he literally we started the season and you start and nothing against Thomas Suchet because I think he's a great club man I think he's but at all Ward Proust I think he's a great professional but these kids you look around and you look at other teams playing those young players and we're not doing it and you think when you talk about the West Ham way you are going back and to those young players like Rio Frank and even before Jeff Hurst and whoever that is the thing I think when you're struggling it is very difficult to play the young players obviously because if they're good enough and the head and shoulders above do the players then of course you play them but if sometimes you kill them as well if you throw them into a struggling team it doesn't help them with the careers and and before you know it you know they're in a really bad position so I get that I think there's a lot of overthinking I think since Pep coming to England a lot of coaches and listen I was guilty of that as well you you go into a job and you you think right you know you want to play this way you're going to do this and very quickly you learn that you know if you don't got the players to do that you can't do that West Ham over the last 10 years the success they've had is when you've got you know your players like Mark Noble or even Declan Rice when he was in there players who have got quality on the ball but you know they're going to take the game by the scruff of the neck they're going to you know lead the other players and you know put tackles in and that run right to the team and the other players react to that and I think that's maybe where West Ham are missing that leader in there who's going to do that for them in my opinion from what I've seen this season But Wayne you see your point on the young players right So the science behind it for me is they're on a couple of grand a week or whatever.

19:43They've got a lot to prove. Normally they're local lads. We've not done well this season. We're sitting in 18th. My thing is you might as well chuck them in. What I was saying about throwing young players in when you're struggling, I think it's a little bit deeper than just that. I think if you're in a struggling team and you really need to know the player, you need to know the player's character because there's no hard in place when you're playing professional sport in the Premier League and there's a lot of pressure from fans, as we're seeing from different teams as well. And if that player doesn't have a good game and then all of a sudden he's getting absolutely abused on social media and what his mental status like.

20:21And there's all this you need to think about to throw young players in. So it's not just as easy as saying, when I went in, I'd go in and I've had issues throughout my life as well in terms of dealing with different types of pressures and stuff. I've always felt I was a really strong person. So you need to really understand the player and his background as well before you take that. Listen, if you're a winner team, no problem. Throw them in and that's where you see young players thrive. But you'd have to be a little bit more careful with teams who are struggling. I look at Slav and Bilic. We had some great times under Slav, but I think a step forward, it doesn't feel like the right move.

21:04I think as well, like I said, I think it runs very deep at West Ham. I think that winning that cup and I think the fact, having someone like Declan come through the ranks and Declan be the player that Declan was and do the things that Declan did and to win us that cup with David and whatever, I think was great and it was a bit of a fluke because I don't think anything, like you were saying, Wayne, I don't think the infrastructure for the club was ever built. It was just like, we've got this kid, this kid is a mate with Declan. And Moisey structured the team. And I think that's why I was never Moisey out.

21:35I thought Moisey actually, for the players he had, he was like, OK, this is how we'll play. I also think that Moisey's use of Jarrod Bowen, what he got from Jarrod Bowen, I think even Mohamed Kudos was a better player for us under Moisey.

22:24I think that's where we're all guilty, aren't we, of seeing some of the football being played throughout the world, down and thinking right you want that from your team and um and some of the the old older managers if you like like a Moise or even Sam Aldice I work with who was I know Sam was at West Ham and Sam surprised me when I went in you know all the scientific everything beyond the science of football um was really impressed with where um you want to get you want to get there too quick sometimes and and and that's why we're seeing a lot of managers losing their jobs and and they're trying different options and foreign managers or younger managers with fresh ideas.

23:04And sometimes the most important thing is that stability, which I think we've seen, as you mentioned before, Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth, have got that stability and now they can kick on a little bit. I think West Ham are still trying to find that now over the last few years. Tom, I'm told we've interrupted a family affair at your house. Oh yeah, I've got two minutes. I've run downstairs. You've got two minutes. I didn't want to get in trouble with any family members for keeping you too long. You'll hear the door open and someone's shouting. You'll be forcibly removed from the podcast. Go on, carry on.

23:37No, but I think the truth of the Potter situation and I think the truth of everything that we're seeing, like I say, with the board, I think we could change. I don't think we'll make massive steps forward unless I think other...

23:53Kae Kurd:All right, but if he goes, who are you bringing in? That's what we need to... I like Nuno. Like I said, I think Kieran would be good for Mitzic. But I also don't think that... I don't think enough is going to be done behind the scenes. And I still, as Wayne's saying, I think you get rid of Grand Port and you just... It's a bit, yeah, like the United situation, but we haven't got United's money. So you're just going to keep on bringing in people. It's got to be Nuno. I don't want Kieran anywhere near West Ham. Nuno's even more... not negative I don't want to say negative he's a very good manager and he's showed that what he's done but even more defensive than David Moyes is yeah but I don't listen Wayne we just need to stay up this season bro we just need to stay up I'll finish on this because I'll tell you what everyone was at West Ham and I've been at a couple of games people would turn around and go oh the clubs that have come up on that and actually you watch Sunderland and Burnley they're playing well and Leeds don't look that bad so all of a sudden you're looking around and you're thinking, okay, this is shaky now.

24:56And you actually, you could be on a, it could, yeah, it's a very, so yeah, I am with Gov. I think I don't want to, you know, you don't want to go down because I actually think if West Ham go down, I think it will be a very, very difficult thing. The way the clubs run, I don't think, I think it would actually be a struggle, I think at times to get it back to where it was. Our championships are tough, I mean, yeah, I'll tell you.

25:19Tom, on that note, on the topic of relegation, we'll let you go back to your family. Go and get yourself a beer Tom, Governor B thank you so much for joining us hopefully next time it will be to discuss happier Can I just say one thing before I go? Of course Wayne, why did you find it respectful enough to score not just one but two goals from the halfway line against West Ham? The first time it was just inside your halfway so I had to go one better and do it from the time you were left In disrespect 24 teamer see you not later guys thank you so much cheers lads thanks a lot now the guys have gone Wayne I can ask you do you think West Ham are in danger of going down what needs to happen next yeah I think there's a possibility I think they have been struggling this season and as I said before all the stats are down and I know that's not that's not everything but there's a lack of belief in the club's in a bad place at the minute.

26:24I think we've seen that with the protests against the owners and I think a lot of fans are saying that they don't want Potter there at the club. So I hope he can turn it around but whether he has the time to do that we'll wait and see. But yeah, I think they're in danger and as Tom said, Burnley are doing okay, Leeds are doing okay, Sunderland have started the season well. So the likes of West Ham and I think Brentford even as well, who I mentioned they're having a good model in changing Thomas Frank and Keith Andrews' first job in the Premier League. It's very difficult. So I think there's a couple, two or three teams who will be looking and be very content.

27:05Kae Kurd:But Wayne, does that show as well how important it is for a manager to choose a club where the structure is right at the top for your own career as well? Because when he was at Brighton, everyone was, I mean, there were some shouts for the England job for Graham Potter. And now we're in a situation we're in. yeah and each club's different as well and um you i think you have to well you try and pick the best club and and a lot of that is based on trust as well because you know i've been there where you do job interviews for for a manager's job and and you get promised things and and you don't get them and so a lot of that comes on a trust of the owners to to produce and give you what they say he will and that's not always the case.

27:49Okay well let's talk about the late game on Sunday we spoke about it in our preview pod last week which came out on Friday Arsenal against Man City finished 1-0 okay what did you make of the game because I don't think it exactly played out how a lot of us were expecting particularly I don't know watching Man City it felt very different the way they kind of approached things when they went 1-0 up.

28:12Kae Kurd:Yeah I mean it was it was interesting seeing Pep's team sort of play a low block. Yeah. But if I was an Arsenal fan, I'd be fuming at the way Arteta set the team up to begin with. They've got so much good, creative attacking players and to start a game without Eze playing, without Ranieri playing, and they're playing essentially two holding midfielders at home against your title rivals, I thought it was a bit weird. And that first half sort of showed that as well. I don't think anybody was impressed with the way they came out. And having made those two subs at halftime, Arteta probably realised he'd made a mistake and he shouldn't have set up in that way as well.

28:59Yeah, 32.8 % possession is the lowest figure any Pep Guardiola team has ever recorded in a top flight match. And it looked for so long, Wayne, like it was going to work, but it was a wonder strike in the end from Martinelli to level things. some of the Arsenal fans are a bit frustrated like Kay said, do you understand? Why would you have liked to have seen them go for it more? Yeah, well I think there's a pressure on Arteta to win something major this season and I said it last week about Man City, I think the difference I think Pep's starting to evolve a new team and a new way of playing if you like and trying to be more effective I don't think they've quite got the midfield which they once had where they can be as expansive so I think they are slightly changing how they're playing a little bit but for Arsenal I think it's difficult because they've got some very good players and similar to the Liverpool game and you know it's not easy to penetrate and create big chances against the best teams and what I will say is it's a real positive they kept going and got the equaliser late on because you know it's not easy to do that and a really good goal as well.

30:12So, yeah, I think Arsenal could have won the game, but I think they'll be pleased in the end the way the game finished. Yeah, it did feel, as Kay said, like a bit of an almost admittance from Arteta. Okay, this isn't working. And he changed it at half-time. How frustrated would you be if you were Eze or Nuanieri? Because they came on, they made a big, big impact. You must have played in games before where you've seen a manager change things early on or a manager get things wrong and almost have to admit it within the 90 minutes. Yeah, well, I think that's a huge strength to recognise it and change it.

30:45So I think sometimes, not every manager in world football, you pick a team and sometimes you get it wrong, whether it's a player wrong, whether it's tactically you get it wrong. And maybe Arteta weren't anticipating the way Man City were going to play. So Man City, you're prepared for something which you feel Man City will, how they will play. and when they don't he's probably recognised that and changed it and thought you know what if they are playing a bit lower a low block playing a bit lower then the likes of Eze can he's got that bit of skill and ability to go past the player and create might give us a better option so yeah I think that's a positive that he has seen and recognised it and changed it and obviously they went on to get from the game so yeah I think sometimes you were quick to jump at teams who draw the game at home.

31:39Them big games are the tough games and you're trying to win a title and they're very difficult games. I hear you, Wayne. Very rarely do you see teams go and win 2 or 3 0 in those games. No, I know, but if