Rooney DISAGREES with England Squad omissions - But Backs Toney Call

22 May 2026 · 34 min · 13 chapters

Ask about this episode

Ask anything about it. ChatGPT or Claude reads this page and answers with the times it was said.

Connect VO and ask about every podcast you hear, including the moments you saved. Add to ChatGPT · Add to Claude

In short

Hosts react to Thomas Tuchel naming England’s World Cup squad, focusing on major omissions (Phil Foden, Cole Palmer, Harry Maguire, Trent Alexander-Arnold, plus Luke Shaw/Lewis Hall) and Tuchel’s rationale about building a cohesive team rather than selecting the 26 most talented individuals.

Guests

Wayne Rooney (former England captain/manager; discusses squad unity, dressing-room roles, and midfield balance) and Kay (co-host; emphasizes how leaks reduced surprise and highlights squad structure/versatility).

Key claims

Tuchel prioritized versatility and team chemistry for a long camp; defenders were increased due to injuries; Henderson is included mainly for leadership/off-pitch stability; Foden/Palmer missed out due to current form and “big moment” evidence; Trent’s defending/role fit is a concern.

Notable examples

Dan Byrne over Maguire; nine defenders including Stones, Gehi, Konza, Livramento, Rhys James, O’Reilly, Jed Spence; midfield mentions Rice, Bellingham, Morgan Rogers, Mainoo, Anderson; forwards Kane, Watkins, Ivan Toney (Saudi form, penalties, heat adaptation).

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Rooney's Insights on Squad Selection

0:45 to 2:42

Rooney shares his opinions on notable omissions from the England squad.

“Because the squad was officially announced and we knew this, we were always scheduled to record on Friday morning.”

Debating Tuchel's Strategy

2:42 to 4:41

The hosts analyze Thomas Tuchel's squad strategy and decision-making.

“it's as simple as that what we're trying to achieve in the summer can only be achieved as a team what do you take from that?”

Analyzing Defensive Choices

4:41 to 6:30

Discussion on the defensive lineup and the absence of key players like Maguire.

“What I like is he's gone with what he believes is right.”

The Midfield Dilemma

6:30 to 8:06

Rooney reflects on the midfield selections, focusing on Foden and Palmer's omissions.

“So he's probably gone with an extra defender, really.”

Bellingham's Role in the Squad

8:06 to 9:30

Discussion on Jude Bellingham's importance and unique attributes for the team.

“He's got a better goal scoring record than a lot of England players.”

Analyzing Squad Omissions and Player Quality

14:03 to 18:23

Discussion on injuries and performance of key players in the England squad.

“Kyle Potham has had his injuries throughout the season.”

The Importance of Midfield Dynamics

18:23 to 20:06

Exploration of the role of midfielders and their importance in international football.

“Brazil in the quarter finals you can play them then you've got that option of playing Declan Vais, Elliot Anderson and Kobe Menuh in midfield and having that energy still in there.”

The Role of Experience in the Squad

20:06 to 24:24

Discussion on the inclusion of veteran players and their impact on team morale.

“Yeah, and the flair, there is still some really exciting players in there, although there's, I think it just shows, and we always talk about it, don't we, just how many exciting flair players that England have.”

Striker Selection and Tactical Considerations

24:24 to 28:00

Debate on the choice of strikers for the squad and the implications for gameplay.

“I just wonder if sometimes, the way I look at it with like a Jordan Henderson, people are getting angry about a player that isn't going to be in the starting 11.”

Harry Kane's Importance to the Team

28:00 to 29:04

Explore why Harry Kane's fitness is crucial for England's success.

Show all 13 chapters

Ivan Toney's Role in the Squad

29:04 to 30:05

Discussion on Ivan Toney's impact and capabilities in the England squad.

“And I think that for the long run, forget personal goals.”

Gibbs-White and Squad Selection Insights

30:05 to 31:24

Insights on Morgan Gibbs-White's omission and the squad selection process.

“the heat that they're going to be playing in, in America.”

Trusting the Manager's Decisions

31:24 to 32:40

Discussion on trusting the manager's judgment in squad selections.

“No, I think, like Wayne said, there's certain decisions that I wouldn't have made.”
Hear the part that matters, and keep it.Open this episode in VO. Double tap your headphones to save a moment as you listen.
Get VO free

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00For me, I think that's my favourite one out of all the call-ups. Is it? Yeah. Almost anyone who's English who can play right back has been in the squad over the last couple of squads before Trent. So I think that was a telling. You can't leave Dupal and not the squad. It reminds me a bit of myself. You'd need that type of player in your World Cup squad. So it's all starting to feel real now. The World Cup is just around the corner and Thomas Tuchel has named his England squad. Everyone's got an opinion. So let's have ours. Wayne, it feels like he's made a bit of a statement here with a lot of his picks.

0:33Yeah, he has, I think. You look at obviously Phil Foden not being in the squad, Cole Palmer not being in the squad, Harry Maguire, probably the three big names not making the squad. so he's certainly he's got people talking hasn't he and you know I think if you look on form I think Harry Maguire is very unlucky not to be in it Phil Foden and Cole Palmer you could argue do they get in the squad on what they've done in the past because they both haven't had the best of season even though I love Phil Foden both haven't had the best of seasons but he's made big calls you'll be seeing him do that in the September and October I think it was in them get-togethers and he stuck with them decisions and made big calls and we have to you know trust in what he's doing because he's the England manager and he's a top-class manager it's different obviously going through World Cup I had it with Capello when it was Capello's first World Cup from club football to international football and I felt he struggled with everything so hopefully Thomas Tuchel can get it right It's been a bit of a strange one isn't it Kay?

1:46Because the squad was officially announced and we knew this, we were always scheduled to record on Friday morning. We knew it was going to come out around 10am, but there was a lot of leaks, wasn't there on Thursday night? I mean, we pretty much knew the entire squad. Yeah, it's ridiculous because in comparison to when you see the way other countries have announced their squads, I mean, Norway made a video where their king was making the announcement and like, you know, you saw the one with a Brazil team earlier in the week. It felt a bit like there were so many shocks and surprises. There was a load of agents who just had their summer ruined leaking all the information.

2:16But I feel like it's an interesting squad. It's been a bit of a strange 12, 24 hours or so. Tuchel has actually spoken, hasn't he? At the time we're recording now, I think he's doing his press conference, but we've heard some of what he said. And I think a big thing that's come across, Wayne, is also that he's made it very clear, hasn't he, that he wants to build the best possible team so it isn't actually possible to collect the 26 most talented players. That was the word he used. He said, teams win championships. it's as simple as that what we're trying to achieve in the summer can only be achieved as a team what do you take from that?

2:49Absolutely I think he's absolutely spot on and you know how many times throughout the years have we had you know pundits fans ex-players whatever that is saying about you know the hope England player will pick not just pick the best players because of the names and because of you know their reputations but pick a team which do you think is the right team to go and help England win? And Thomas Tuchel clearly thinks this is the right squad of players. And we're going to get the same now. Why didn't he pick Foden? Why didn't he pick Cole Power? We always get the same, don't we? Every time. Well, I was saying if Gareth Southgate picked this team, there'd be riots across all of London.

3:29But I think the reason people are being a bit more forgiving is because Thomas Tuchel's won a lot more as a club. I don't know if they are, Kay. I've seen a lot of people angry. People are always angry at Spawn. Yeah, but that's the thing. But I think his comments when he's come out, there's very few things you can disagree with with regards to his comments. Obviously, everybody's going to have their opinions with regards to the players chosen. I mean, there's some players in there that I don't think should be in the squad by any stretch of the imagination because you can't say this is a team that's been picked on form because you've got John Stones in there.

4:05You've got Jordan Henderson in there as well. But what he's saying, in I think is completely true and there's certain players you'd have to have you know a bit of leeway for I think that's with every country we'll have players in there where you think you know the player John Stone may be a little bit lucky to be in but there's certain players throughout each squad throughout the tournament I think you'll have that but in terms of you you have to go and live with this group I have to go and live together for six weeks seven I think this one yeah seven weeks hopefully and then if you get one it only takes one who doesn't feel part of it and he starts disrupting things the impact that has is massive, it's like a domino effect because then you get the players who are close to him then all of a sudden you've got a group so I think what he's done, he's tried to get the best group of players mixed with a group of players who he feels can win a tournament but off the pitch is so important that you get that right and I think that's what he's tried to do he clearly feels that the environment in the September October November get-togethers wherever they was was the best that they had and obviously I think then he left you Bellmongam out to them squads yeah but he clearly thinks that a majority of that squad he had them was the best he felt and I know the games were the hardest games but it was probably the best he performed as well So he's gone down that route and time will tell, of course, but he's gone down the route.

5:47What I like is he's gone with what he believes is right. He hasn't gone what maybe people want him to do. I would have had full phone in the squad, but he's gone with what he feels is right for England and we hope he is right. Well, he's gone for like nine defenders and I feel like it's a bit of an interesting one because a couple of those are a bit injury prone and stuff as well. But he's gone for a more versatile selection in defence where there's a lot of players that can play in a lot of different positions, hasn't he? Yeah, well, I think what he's got there, he's got... I think he's got nine defenders because, as you said, there's players who have been injured.

6:27I think Liv Remento, is he still injured? I think he's just back, isn't he? Is he just back? Rhys James, Rhys James, obviously. Rhys James, you've got in there. John Stones, you've got in there. So he's probably gone with an extra defender, really. than what he normally would because of them injuries. So it gives him a little bit of cover, but also some of them defenders can play in the field as well. So we've got forwards in there as well. Okay, so he's gone, the defenders, to run three of them, Burns, Spence, Konza, Kwanza, Stones, Gehi, O 'Reilly, James and Livramento. We've already discussed the big headline is the fact that Harry Maguire is probably the defender that we expected to be in there that isn't.

7:04And when you hear those nine names, does that surprise you even more that Maguire isn't one of them? What was Luke Shaw and Lewis Hall as well? Massive omissions. Yeah, I think Harry's the big one, isn't it? Yeah, in my opinion, it was between Harry Maguire and Dan Byrne who went... I think Harry... Why has he gone with Byrne, though, do you think, over Maguire? If you're going on based on football, I personally would have went with Maguire, but he's obviously seen something. Dan Byrne has been in every squad, I think, for Thomas Tuchel. So, yeah, he's made that call and that's the one, that's the big one for me.

7:43Obviously, we'll talk about the attacking players shortly, but I think that was a call. It was Dan Bernal or Harry Maguire, I'd imagine. The Harry Maguire one's mad to me because I think if you want somebody that's good around a dressing room, that's a threat in both departments, I think you've got Declan Rice and Bukayo Saka, who is some of the best corner takers we've seen this season. If you need a goal in the last 10 minutes and you slap Harry Maguire onto the pitch, he can get you a goal. He's got a better goal scoring record than a lot of England players. The reason it surprised me as well is that I think when I look at this England squad, there isn't quite as much experience.

8:19And we've seen a bit of a changing of the guard in recent years. And maybe that's why Stones gets in. Although Tuchel's been incredibly complimentary about Stones, but he's talked about his character. He's a world-class player, proven winner. That's what Harry Maguire feels like to me as well. That's why I was surprised. I wonder if Burns' versatility has come into it at all, Wayne, because he can play central or left. I wouldn't play him left-back, if I'm being honest. No, I think... There's better options at left-back. Yeah, I think he's a six-foot-six left-back. Looks wrong, doesn't it? And again, I'm not being disrespectful.

8:54I think he's a very good centre-back. You're only envious, you'd have liked to have been that tall. Yeah, no, there's many players who can play in both full-back positions there. obviously Trent as well who's not in the squad so yeah I just think for me I think he probably had a decision to make either Dan Byrne or Harry Maguire and maybe he's thinking you know Harry Maguire maybe he's thinking he doesn't want to be disrespectful to Harry Maguire and take him and not play him I don't know I don't know what I'm sure they've had conversations I don't know what them conversations were but that was probably the call the big call out of the defenders Harry or Dan Byrne and Thomas Nussela has obviously chosen to go with Dan.

9:34Have you spoken to him at all, Wayne? To Harry? No. Yeah. I imagine he's had a lot of messages this morning, hasn't he? We've seen his family and things post on social media. Okay, so elsewhere in the defence, we've got with Gahey and Konza. They're probably the two we'd expect to start, would you say, Wayne? Yeah, you'd probably say so, yeah. I think they've both had really good seasons. Trophy winners, both of them this season, yeah. Liveramento, so we've spoken. I think it'll probably be Liveramento, will it? or I don't know I mean O 'Reilly I think yeah O 'Reilly Rhys James it's a strange one because he's I think what he's done he's picked a squad of players who which it's really interesting he's picked a squad of players who can play in so many different positions you look at O 'Reilly he can play left back midfield 10 he probably plays a 9 if he wants them to Liver and Mentor can play both sides Jed Spence can play both sides were you surprised by Jed Spence though Wayne because that was the one call that when it all kind of got leaked on Thursday night Like the one we were still wondering about was that final spot and it proved to go to Jed's third spot.

10:35He's got a broken drawer at the moment, doesn't he? But apparently he's going to play on Sunday. Yeah, no, I think it was clear from the last, you know, get-together that Trent was not going to get in the squad. I think that was really clear. How do you feel about that now? Trent, when he's on it, is in possession, is arguably the best right-back in world football. The big worry I've had, and I've maintained this every time I spoke about centres defensively he's just not good at defending basically and when you're looking at a right back I think you want your right backs and it's changed, the role has changed it's more about going forward but when you do go forward can you get back and Trent doesn't seem to get back when he plays so I can understand it I still think I would have had Trent in the squad but I can get why he hasn't brought them and again when we're talking about chemistry on not the pitch what's he like round the pitch well Southgate didn't really fancy him either round the hotel Southgate did try and change his position as well yeah but when that becomes a bit of a theme with different managers then that normally tells you yeah and it kind of felt like that wasn't really as much of a shock this time wasn't it I think Tuchel kind of was pretty obvious in how he felt about it yeah well I think you know almost anyone who's English who can play right back has been in the squad over the last couple of squads before Trent so I think that was that was a telling it's also a bit wild isn't it it feels like fullback we were so strong in a few years ago but now there's not quite as many kind of world class options I don't want to be disrespectful to any of the players in the squad but compared to where we were at at one point well I think I think Rhys James is is world class it's just keeping fit unfortunately that's the that's the it would have been interesting if Kyle Walker didn't retire do you think he'd still get in the squad?

12:23He's played in a struggling team, obviously, at Burnley, but he's probably, you know, been used to defending a lot more this season than he has in the last six or seven seasons. Does he still have the pace, though, Wayne? Well, I think him losing a bit of pace is still quicker than a lot of players. Yeah, that's true. Well, Tuchel said that Jed Spence is the quickest player in the squad now, so that's obviously why he's in there for his pace, I guess, and he can defend. Yeah, and he can play both sides, can't he? I think Jed Spence, I think defensively, actually, he has done okay this season in a very poor season for Tottenham.

12:53so I think he's one who maybe can hold his head up a little bit so I get that Wayne, I've never known someone have as many deliveries as you in the Rooney household It might just be one of my kids coming home from school Okay, well you can check if you need to let them in I don't want them waiting outside or it might just be another pair of sunglasses for your holiday Okay then, I think we've kind of covered off the defence Let's move on to the midfield The headlines I think it's safe to say Phil Foden and Cole Palmer missing out which if someone had said this to you off the back of Euro 2020 2024 would have just felt wild, wouldn't it?

13:25And it still does feel quite surreal, but on form, would they deserve to be there? Probably not. Yeah, well, as Kay said at the start, I don't think you can look and go on form for all players, but I think Thomas Hussle has done that. And it brings a big pressure as well from the media and obviously me being a part of that now as well. you feel under pressure to play them or bring them on if they're not starting. Maybe that's a decision why he hasn't included them. The form hasn't been great for both players, and I love the two of them. I think they're fantastic players on the day. They could be absolute world beaters, but they haven't had great seasons.

14:03Kyle Potham has had his injuries throughout the season. Phil Fogham, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to be able to get in the Man City team. and if you look at it Morgan Rodgers has been excellent for Aston Villa obviously just scored the goal in the European final Tuchel clearly really likes him I think he's going to start him over Bellingham in the first game yeah he will I think I think he will and then obviously you've got Jude who's missed a few a few camps but you can't leave Jude Bellingham to score and I think Jude would probably be the one who goes against what Thomas Tuchel is trying to create for this tournament.

14:46Due to Maverick, you've got to accept... He reminds me a bit of myself. You've got to accept... He's got his own personality, if that fits in with the rest of the team. But you need that type of player in your World Cup squad. Is that almost one of Tuchel's biggest challenges, Wayne? I'd say so, I think. and especially if he doesn't start the first game. I think that's a challenge which Tuchel has to be ready for. I'm sure he's prepared and if he doesn't start, I'm sure he knows what comes with that from the media, from Jude's family. He knows and I'm sure he's a special. It's a nice problem to have as well though, isn't it, when you've got a player of that quality.

15:33You can name any other international manager in the world they'd want to do Bellingham in their squad. Yeah, 100%. and that's what I'm saying he has to be in it Jude has moments big moments we saw it at the Euros yeah we've already seen that so there's evidence I've heard Thomas Dufel talk about the evidence they had in October November there's evidence of Jude Bellingham doing that in England big moments and unfortunately that evidence isn't quite there for Phil Foden and Cole Palmer well I think for Palmer I'd argue it is there for Palmer I think the last Euros wasn't it even in the yeah he scored in the final but he didn't get on the pitch much.

16:10He's still scored in the final. I think if you want someone to do it in big moments, I think he can pretty much do it for you. Yeah, no, I agree. I think if you've got 10 minutes to go and you've got Cole Palmer warming up on the sidelines about to come on, I think especially running at tired legs, I think that's a scary prospect for defenders of any country. He's struggled with injury. But I disagree. I think if you've got 10 minutes to go and you see Ivan Toni and Oli Watkins get ready to come on, I think that's a difference. for a challenge and I think in today's football defenders and midfield players that they're used to these players in their pockets now in their little number 10s and coming in from the sides what they may be not used to There's another of his children There'll be the two coming soon So what they may be not used to is a big centre forward coming on and getting the ball while an cross is coming into the box Yeah but would you not take him instead of Matiweke?

17:04I would yeah I think that's what a lot of people are asking, isn't it? Yeah, but that's a call he's made. And if you look, it hasn't fared too badly for Arsenal this season having Saka and then Madweke as his backup. And it's tough, isn't it? Because it's all so subjective. A lot of Arsenal fans would have said, why has Madweke been left out over Parma?

17:33Let's talk about who's going to start then. I think, would you say that the one big question mark is who's going to start in the 10? Although, Kay, you just said then you think Morgan Rodgers will probably start there over Bellingham. And evidence suggests from Tuchel's previous teams, that's the way, Wayne. You seem to agree. Yeah, but what I do like as well, he's got, I think having Maynou in the squad is huge. I really do. I think for Corby, obviously, the way the season's gone and the way it started to the way it's finished, night and day, obviously, not playing a minute really under Amaran to play in every game and being really instrumental and man you like to finish in third but what it gives England I think it gives them an energy a composure and it gives them options so for instance if England are playing Brazil in the quarter finals you can play them then you've got that option of playing Declan Vais, Elliot Anderson and Kobe Menuh in midfield and having that energy still in there.

18:36All three of them can go forward. Anderson has been really good going forward. Declan Rice has been good going forward. And then you play without a number 10, if you like. And then you're playing with 2-8-10. But when you lose the ball, you've got that base in the middle of the pitch where you're very difficult to play through and break down. So I think that's a huge call, having a copy of the menu, because it gives them that flexibility to change formation slightly to help us be a bit more solid. I always wonder, Wayne, as someone that's played international football, do we spend so much time discussing the flair players?

19:11And I know you were a flair player. You changed the game, et cetera. You're the most important players on the pitch, you're going to tell me. But in international football, just how important it is. I just wanted to play football and I didn't want to be noticed. Yeah, of course not. But that base in front of the defence, those kind of holding midfielders, it feels like they're even more important in international football. And it feels like now England have got quite an exciting kind of few players to pick from. Well, the defendant starts from the front. So I'm sure you know, I hope you know that.

19:36Yeah, you were renowned for your defending, I know. To be fair, you were pretty good as well. No, no. Yeah, it's so important. The middle of the pitch is important. Your concentration in the middle of the pitch, it has to be there for every minute of the game. As a forward, you can switch off a little bit. and forwards do that the ball goes into your penalty box or around your penalty box a lot of forwards do switch off and that's why you get caught on the heels a bit but for a midfield player you're involved in the attacks you're involved in defending you're involved in covering full backs you're completely the things that go through your mind as midfield players are so different to the rest of the pitch and I think for them midfield players to have the flexibility and be solid, but also the flair going forward is going to be key for England.

20:28Yeah, and the flair, there is still some really exciting players in there, although there's, I think it just shows, and we always talk about it, don't we, just how many exciting flair players that England have. What about Marcus Rashford? Does he deserve to be in this time though, Wayne? Yeah, I think he does, yeah. Yeah, I have him in. What I like about the squad, the wide players, is I think he's, I think he's going to play a left-back who's going to stay, it looks like. And they're so direct down that left. If you look at it, you've got Andy Gordon, Marcus Rashford. So you don't need a full-back bomb around them.

21:00Leave them 1v1. And then on the other side, you've got Madowiecki, Saka, who can come in tight. Then your full-back can go. So I think he's got... Well, that was another thing Tuchel said, didn't he? He said he wants the squad to represent the league, the Premier League. So he said he wants the England team to play like it's English, if that makes sense. So direct football is probably representative of that. Yeah, no, you think of Gordon, runs in behind, get the ball, be direct, commit your full-back. Same with Rashford. And then on the other side, obviously Saka is the one who can go both ways.

21:38He can go down the line, he can cut inside. So I think that's where you'll see the full-back going forward a bit more and being a bit more direct off the left. And I think for the balance, that balance of them wide players for me feels right. I think that feels like a really good balance. We can't mention midfield without mentioning Jordan Henderson, because I know it's the constant debate. It's been going on for years. I know K is fuming about his inclusion. Maybe as someone that's been around it a little bit more, not that I'm saying your opinion isn't valid, but I can see the reasoning, though.

22:12Don't go full Roy Keane on me here. No, listen, look. I just think Adam Wharton's had such an amazing season. I disagree. I don't think he has. You don't think so? No. He's had a better season than Henderson. I don't think he has. He's in a European final, Wayne. Yeah, but I think Henderson has done well. He's been good for Brentford. I don't think Henderson should be in the squad as well. But I don't think... Phew, I thought for a second you were saying... No, no, but... But do you understand it, Wayne, whether you think he's not in or not do you understand why he's in? Yeah of course I understand it and then there's an argument for other players but Jordan you know he's been a captain of Liverpool been successful won the Premier League, Champions League as a captain very professional very committed and he'll be a massive help to Thomas Tuchel and in particular that day after the game I think that's really important because that's where players' heads can drop Why is he a masseuse?

23:12No but when the players who don't play when the players who start will go and do the recovery and rest and bike and pool and you the players have to go and put the boots on, you have to get on the grass and that's where you can feel a disconnect of the group and I think Jordan will be key to keep that group going sometimes the training session can be lethargic so Jordan will help from a player's point to keep that goal and keep pushing the players. I think if you asked Jordan Henson, I think he would have still went as a coach, a training coach, and he'd still train and do the same job. And then that allows you to bring someone else in.

23:52Is that not a bit disrespectful, though, to tell a player that plays in a Premier League do you want to come in as a coach? No, he's done it with Tom Heaton in the Euros. It's quite common, isn't it? Yeah, but he's a third-choice keeper. He was fourth. He went registered to play at the Euros. So he'd come in to train. which they do that in the MLS actually they have four keepers they have the fourth one who's not even registered but that means if you're doing little small games you can actually have four goalkeepers whatever but yeah it's an interesting one because I think Jordan has a good season I would have preferred someone who could be a bit more influential on the pitch I think Jordan's been picked for more as role off the pitch which I get a completely understanding experience I've been there you know when players need picking up around the place Jordan will do that but also he'll be a voice for some players as well who will be a bit scared or intimidated to go to Harry Kane or go to the manager with the feelings if they're feeling a bit down because it happens we've seen that before you know if they're upset they're not playing or he'll be someone who the players can go to, almost like a rep, the players will go to because I think, as I imagine, Jordan Henderson doing that a bit more than Henry Kane.

25:15Okay, yeah. I just wonder if sometimes, the way I look at it with like a Jordan Henderson, people are getting angry about a player that isn't going to be in the starting 11. So it's like, he must be being brought in for other reasons, which you've mentioned there. But Wayne, there's also an argument. Yeah, but again, I think a 26-man squad is too big. Do you? Yeah, and it used to be 23, didn't it? and you're on more teams in the World Cup Wayne so there's more matches yeah there's more matches whatever but I still think 26 is a lot of players that's a lot you know you look at a Premier League season some managers are not happy with 26 players for the Premier League they want less Jose Mourinho won 26 players for the season why just because of squad unity yeah it's just a lot of players yeah so it's from a man management perspective, trying to keep all those people happy.

26:07Yeah, and normally you'll get one or two who will feel like the 25th and 26th player. And then it's how do you keep them at a place which is not going to affect other players? Let's move on to forwards then. I think the headline here is we knew that Harry Kane was in there. We knew that Ollie Watkins' form at the end of the season, he's a European Cup winner as well now, was going to see him in there. But Ivan Toney, did that surprise you, Wayne? No, it didn't actually. I'm happy. I like it. I think it surprised him because he was getting his visa today. Was he? Yeah, apparently there's reports that he was there getting his visa today.

26:46So I don't think he expected a call-up. Why did it surprise you, Wayne? Because he's a very good player. He scored goals in the Premier League and yet he's gone to Saudi over there scoring goals. It's never a bad thing. It's not a bad habit to have. I just like the fact that we've got three number nines. Yeah. I've spoke about this before you know how many teams have one number nine and that's what I said earlier before if you're chasing a goal rather than bringing a number 10 on who wants to get on the ball and play get goal scorers on the pitch get people who know where the back of the net is and the scoring on a regular basis on the pitch and I'm really pleased with their three forwards I think Ollie Watkins fair play to him because in the last get together he was struggling he never got called up he was struggling for form and he's ended the season he's he's forced Thomas Thucyling into that decision so I think he deserves a lot of praise for that but I really like the fact that he's gone with them three Is it going to be as simple as Harry Kane starts?

27:44It is isn't it? Harry Kane is still the start so that's a different Harry Kane is the first name on that team sheet Particularly given the form he's in Well I hope the last 20 minute games Harry's obviously England record goal scorer he'll score goals wherever he is but I hope if Harry's saying it looked like to me and I don't know this if Harry wanted to stay on the pitch under Garrett Southgate he was staying on the pitch he weren't coming off that pitch and if he's still feeling that way I think Thomas Tuchel has to take that away from him in the last 20 minutes the games with that heat with the humidity altitude keep him keep him as fresh as you can if the game's done get him if he's got a goal as well of course he'll want to score he'll want to be in the golden boot if he can but the team is more important get him rest him keep him keep him right yeah for games like the Panama one like do you know what I mean you could slap Tony on there or Oliwold if we've qualified if we've qualified after the first two games I'd have no intention to bring him on the pitch at all you've been that player then in that situation no I don't yeah no but But for the long run, at the end of that tournament, we want to see Harry Kane lifting that trophy.

29:05And I think that for the long run, forget personal goals. I'm not saying Harry will... It's taken by personal goals, however, but Thomas Lewis has to make decisions to the team. And for the team, it is much better if Harry Kane is fresher for the knockout stages. I can't remember which game it was at the Euros with Ivan Toni. I just remember Gareth Southgate saying that he brought Toni on so late and he almost looked at Southgate disgusted. And then he came on and caused chaos in the box and then England scored from it. So I can understand, Tony, from that point of view in terms of the profile of player he is.

29:37He does come on and cause a bit of chaos, doesn't he? He's a big presence. And also, I'm wondering if penalties are coming into his thinking because he is lethal from the spot, Wayne. Yeah, he is. But I think he's got a lot more to his game now. He can hold the ball up really well. And in that heat, when the ball goes up to the centre forward, the last thing you want to do is bouncing off them. and then if Harry Kane does go off the pitch, Ivan Toney is probably the next best alarm, better than Ollie Watkins at it, probably I keep holding upon. There was something you just mentioned there as well, the heat that they're going to be playing in, in America.

30:09He's probably been used to that all season in Saudi as well, hasn't he? Yeah, the climate, he's used to that, traveling as well. Saudi Arabia is a big place to travel, he'd love to do over there. So yeah, I think that will have all come into account, but you can't knock anyone who scores goals. and I'm sure no one will be putting Saudi in front of Ronaldo saying why is he going? He's playing Saudi Arabia. I haven't told him he's still young enough. He's a top player and I'm buzzing. For me, I think that's my favourite one out of all the call-ups. Is it? Yeah. Does this look like a World Cup winning squad?

Read the full transcript

30:48What does? Just because you love keepers now, having trained with Jordan Pickford, no arguments on the keepers. A word on Morgan Gibbs-White? Is he unlucky? Could he have done any more? No, not really. As I just said about Ollie Watkins, Gibbs-White is unlucky. He's ended the season really well. But yeah, he's made the call, hasn't he? Remember Tuchel saying that, you know, one of Foden or Palmer wouldn't go. And then you think, is Rodgers and Gibbs-White got a chance to go? But to leave Gibbs-White, Foden, Palmer, all out of the squad, it's huge calls and he's obviously feels what I said before about Maynou Anderson and Rice maybe playing maybe he's thinking more towards that as well but yeah I think Gibbs-White is very unlucky not to be in this world Overall though I get the feeling you quite like this squad There's a couple of changes I would have made to it as I've said but yeah I think I think the big thing for me is I think I trust Thomas Tuchel so even the decisions I don't like I think I've got a trust in Tuchel and him as a manager from everything I've seen now I don't know at international level so at a tournament but I think I've got a trust in Thomas Tuchel to pick the right players and you know go and hopefully take us the next step so yeah a few changes I made but overall I think we've certainly got enough to go and challenge for him Okay you're a bit fuming but you were right overall?

32:21No, I think, like Wayne said, there's certain decisions that I wouldn't have made. But I think given his comments as to why he's picked the team, you've just got to back the manager, as we say when we're watching football season. So, yeah, hopefully come July, the lads are lifting a trophy. The other news, of course, coming out today is that Pep Guardiola has been confirmed as leaving Manchester City after Sunday. You can hear our thoughts on that on the last Wayne Rooney show, which came out on Tuesday. We'll be back with all of our reaction to the final day in the Premier League where there is still plenty to be decided.

32:55But for now, we'll see you next time. And a reminder, you can watch the Wayne Rooney Show on the BBC Sport iPlayer or YouTube, or you can listen on BBC Sounds.

33:20You know how much an honour that is. And it's remarkable team! And it's remarkable women! We want to play in a way that they can show their skills, so that's what we're trying to do. Win the World Cup. It's a dream. Listen. With the BBC Sounds app.

From the publisher

Thomas Tuchel’s England World Cup squad is out, and the biggest question is simple, has he called it right?

Harry Maguire is out despite Wayne Rooney insisting he’d have taken him. Phil Foden and Cole Palmer are also left at home, so has Tuchel just dropped three match-winners in one ruthless sweep?

But Wayne doesn’t disagree with everything. Why does he back Ivan Toney’s inclusion so strongly? Does tournament football need goalscorers over flair? And is this the bold, no-sentiment squad England fans have always demanded… or a gamble that could blow up spectacularly?

More from The Wayne Rooney Show

All 92 episodes
Rooney DISAGREES with England Squad omissions - But Backs Toney CallThe Wayne Rooney Show · 34 min
Listen in VO