Rooney’s Top 5 Champions League Defenders & Slot’s Istanbul Slip

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0:30at Whole Foods Market. Throughout this World Cup, David Beckham has been everywhere. In the stands, in commercials, during ad breaks, sorry, hydration breaks. Which is wild when you consider he was once the most hated man in Britain. I turned around to a fan and he was screaming about my wife and about Brooklyn right to my face and wouldn't even look away. How do you go from that to being a billionaire? That's next time on Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts He was a centre-back You come up against him You just think, I just don't like him And that's probably still why I didn't put him in me Top 5 And then when I come up against him It's probably one of the only times Of being in awe on a football pitch He played Argentina in a game And he was horrible What people don't see is In the first half, I'm trying to get Ronaldo booked for Davin

1:29Wayne you said on Sunday night that you thought your comments about Manchester United were going to get a few people talking I think a lot of Manchester United fans have almost appreciated your comments that you're kind of one of them there's been a lot of pick up hasn't there I think what the fans can see that it was genuine it's a genuine worry I think that's the main thing and yeah as I said then it's always a very difficult thing subject to talk about and I just felt that I had to really and even after I reflect on what you've said and should you have said so strongly but that's the way I felt about it and I feel about it and yeah as I said as I said then it's a genuine concern Do you know where it was?

2:18I think where people saw Wayne speak from the heart, I think a lot of Man United fans really appreciated that a legend was, you know, feeling exactly like them. And I felt like it validated a lot of people's feelings because he's going through the same things that we're going through when we're watching the match. So I saw nothing but praise. There were a few people saying he looked a bit broken and I was like, no, he weren't broken. He's fine. It'll take more than that. Yeah, it'll take more than that. but yeah, I thought it was, yeah, hats off to you, mate. You spoke from the heart and people resonated with it, so yeah.

2:54The result last night made me feel a little better. That's what I was going to say. Anything was going to make you feel a little bit better. It might have been Liverpool losing and you watched it, Wayne, didn't you? Yeah, I thought they were poor. Firstly, I thought the pitch looked horrendous for this early in the season. I thought they were really poor, I think. I think a worry for me would be losing the game and it looked like he even with still quite a bit of time left to go, he's just put every attacking player on the pitch and just said go and figure it out and it could have got a lot worse for his people during the game because the amount of times he'd give the ball away at the back and losing it and getting broke on and Alisson obviously getting injured coming from a mistake where he gives the ball away and yeah, I thought they didn't look good yesterday and I think since the start of the season really, of course, the results have papered over some of them cracks which they've had and where they haven't performed well, but I think there's a concern in terms of if they don't get together, then teams can catch them up and what they don't want to do is give the likes of Man City and Arsenal a bit of momentum him to believe that he can go and take that title off them.

4:15Well, Arnie Slotz finally has to do some coaching, doesn't he? Yeah, last season he sort of took Klopp's team and Mo Salah helped him out a lot. But now he's got like a lot of his own players. So he's got, you know, he's sort of got no excuse in order to go on. But I don't feel like any Premier League team has been playing incredibly well at the moment. and people said Liverpool were looking like they were playing well and now you've seen two defeats on the trot. I don't think anybody's got going completely yet. So where people thought it was a foregone conclusion that Liverpool are going to win the league and I know it was a Champions League game last night but I don't think it's as written in the stars already that Liverpool have won the league and I think, yeah, last night's performance and performances like the one on the weekend show that.

5:07I think when you win the league, like like Annie Slott did last season with Liverpool, then sometimes some of the decisions you make get overlooked. I think the decision to play a midfield player at right back at a right back at right wing, I think was... Like, for instance, if that was Amaran at Manchester United, he'd get absolutely slaughtered for making that decision. So I think... And that shows the difference in the Champions League. You know, I was like, played there in the league and done well. He'd go into the Champions League and he got found out. Yeah, so I think that was a big decision, which has backfired.

5:46Okay, well, let's move on to some positive news from the week then. William Saliba signing a new deal with Arsenal that will keep him at the club until 2030. And Wayne, after you said in last week's show, you don't like Arsenal, but you do quite like what we're doing, we thought it might be quite a good time to talk about them. How important is that signature to Mikel Arteta and everything they're trying to do there? Yeah, no, listen, Lieber's a fantastic player and I'm sure for his teammates, for the fans, for Arteta, then to get a signature and get him to sign a new contract, I think is huge.

6:19And that helps with, you know, maybe other players following suit and players obviously coming in in January of the next summer when you know you've got stability and you better play as a signing new deals, then that certainly helps everyone out. So, yeah, I think for Arsenal, it's a massive signing. It's not a bad centre-back player in that, is it? Okay, him and Gabriel, there's a reason that was the best defence in the Premier League last year. No, of course. I mean, I think sometimes when one's not playing as well, the other one sort of ups their game with the both of them. And obviously both of them sort of, well, Gabriel especially, sorry, a threat in the other box as well when you need him to be.

7:01And yeah, it's a fantastic pair and I'm very jealous when I see them to add it back for us. No, I think they complement each other really well. When you see Arsenal when they're struggling in a game late on, if they're winning the game 1-0, you think, oh, maybe they'll concede the goal. You concede them to lead and you concede them talking and pulling people into position and getting players in front of them to protect them. and I think that's what you need. You need talk as your centre-backs and leaders and I think them two certainly are and arguably the best centre-back player in the league.

7:37Would you fancy the battle against them too? Yeah, of course. You always want to play against the better players and if you're asking me whether to put them at the same level of centre-backs I've played against, then no, I wouldn't. But I think in this current age, I think I said this a few weeks ago with Rio that the centre-backs are nowhere near as good, in my opinion, in this day and age. So I wouldn't put them up with the ones I've played with or against in my time. But I think they're certainly possibly the best centre-back pair in this day. Let's bring it back round to defenders that you played against, Wayne.

8:18And as it's a Champions League week, we thought we'd ask you about the ones that you came up against in the competition. and then, and I think this will be probably quite tough for you, get you to name your top five. Was it tough naming five? Yeah, there's so many great defenders you play against. So to name five out of them defenders, it was difficult to really think of or even put them in order of which ones you put number one, which ones you put number five. So yeah, it was tough. I've never seen Wayne so deeply in thought Whereas when I logged on and I saw him thinking about it. No, I saw him.

8:56Yeah, I had a thinking and I finally got the five in position and all that. Yeah, and the scary thing is myself and Kay have tried to come up with five as well. I think it's a lot easier when you've played against them. Just quickly though, how different was it playing against defenders in the Champions League compared to domestic football? Did you notice different styles when you're playing like Spanish teams, Italian teams? Yeah, absolutely. they were nasty clever in the same way and the amount of times especially with no VAR as well, the amount of times there's the balls up to the end and then you've just got to stud right down your heel and stand on your toes or the pinching so many little things which went on so yeah you could see a big difference Who was the sneakiest?

9:49Do you remember Ayala? yes we played Argentina in a game and he was horrible he was horrible honestly and it was difficult we played Argentina in Switzerland and yeah that was I was 18 and 19 and so that was a real eye opener for me of what to expect from some of these South American defenders anyway in particular that was that was always a big challenge when you've made this list have you gone what have you looked for and how have you kind of decided? Have you just gone for centre-backs because you played specifically against them, full-backs? How have you decided it? Yeah, no, I've gone for centre-backs and I've gone for obviously players I've played against and also players who I've watched in the Champions League as well when I haven't been involved in that competition or we've been knocked out and players I've enjoyed watching but I've played into all of them, the ones I've picked.

10:45Okay, let's go straight into it. I've got 100 questions but let's go into the players because I think that will cause even more questions. Who comes in? It feels brutal saying bottom at number five because being in the top five isn't fab. Who's fifth? So in my 50s, Nesta. I think we played the instrument in 2005. I think it was in the Champions League and then after that again. But he was very clever. you know he looked always looked in control of of what he was doing and my game could be nasty as well and um remember when we come up against him um it was him and maldini who probably will speak about it in a minute but i remember we played um played him at old trafford in the first leg ac and after 10 minutes um i could there nested breathing behind me and he was breathing heavy and i'm thinking yeah i've got him he's he's not getting through 90 minutes or and then and he did he he he stayed managed to get through it i scored the last minute actually to win three two but then the main reason why i've picked him is when we played them um in the second leg it was completely different different player different feel there was no heavy breathing no panting from him he's always in he was in control and we lost the game 3-0 and that was a game which I felt we made progress as a team because we had young players and we were trying to challenge a game for the Premier League and Champions League but that was like oh okay that wasn't a big time and the team they had the head of that Seydorf, Perlow, Shevchenko, Kaka, Cafu was a fullback and it was an incredible team and it was a real real lesson for us that night yeah and who's your fifth one then okay go for yours I do you know what I went for Thiago Silva I think Thiago Silva he's I think the longevity that he's had as well in the game is is something that people underestimate but also I think for for so many years because he was away in Paris I don't think people understood how good he really was and then when he came to Chelsea people were like oh actually he's top class but yeah I've gone for Thiago Silva I did have Nesta in there as well somewhere but he wasn't number five Why didn't you pick and just spoiler Thiago Silva isn't in your top five is he Wayne but was he someone that came into consideration?

13:25No not for me I think I've played against him a few times and I've normally done quite well every time I've played and I think the way I played didn't suit the way he defended if I'm being honest and I've watched him obviously many times and I think he's a fantastic player but just when I've played against him I haven't found the games that difficult to play against him so maybe he was a player who I suited to playing against or he didn't like playing against me but that's the reason I didn't put him in the map. I just need to make it clear by the way I have got no Man United players in my top five just because I wanted to give myself a challenge otherwise I'd have just put Yep Stan Rio Ferdinand in the Manly Finis okay I quite like that my fifth one I really struggled I did five and I really struggled to put them in top five because there is so many good ones I also joined this call with six so sorry to miss the number six you've gone are there any Watford players in it I'm a big fan of Danny Shitty I'm joking that's the thing this is way easier when I got told we had to do it as well I was like, obviously I watched the Champions League, but you two, like Wayne's played in it.

14:37Okay, you support a Champions League team. Watford playing the championship. Like, yeah. So I've gone for Carlos Pio. I can never say his name very well. Barcelona, just because I think in that era, I think he won it three times in total. But in that era when football was changing, he was still so solid. And I just loved that he was no nonsense in that era when there was a little more kind of like intricate passing and stuff. and I just thought he looked pretty nasty to play against as well. Yeah, he was, to be fair. We played against him a few weeks ago, obviously, in that game. Oh, did he play in that game?

15:11Yeah. And I gave me a little tussle and barging him onto the floor and he went up here. He was a tough defender. And I think for what he didn't have in some areas, I think he made up for with his heart and his desire and fight and leadership so I think he was a fantastic player. I think I've been spending too much time in your company Wayne because when I picked this five that was kind of what I looked at and that's why I just liked him I just thought in that era it was kind of football was changing wasn't it and he still kind of he still kept himself. Yeah he still still looks the same as well.

15:48Does he? Yeah still exactly the same. Who won that battle then? You if you pushed him to the floor? Yeah well he didn't see it was a sneaky one and And then I should have scored actually. I had a free header then, but I missed the header. Okay, then on to number four, Wayne. Number four, I went for Cavalio. I think he's such a good player. Compliments John Terry really well. Very difficult to play against the two of them. Experienced leader. Obviously, clever in the way he got me sent off as well in the World Cup. But no, I think he could pass the ball, he could organise, he could head the ball, tackle him.

16:35So he was always a tough player to play in. So that's why I've put him at number four. I actually wish he's not in my list at all, but actually I think sometimes he's maybe overlooked, do you think, because of John Terry Wayne? Maybe, yeah. I think it's a bit like Canati with Van Dijk, if you like. I think Canati's a fantastic player, but sometimes that gets overlooked because of Vago van Dijkers and maybe not as much as that but I think Cavallo was a massive part in the success which Chelsea had and he was nasty as well he'd leave his foot in and again I think there's a theme with most of the players who I've picked on this it's all quite clever and understand the game and know all the little tricks in the game So he was one of my toughest opinions for sure.

17:28Do you want to get into the 2006 red card? Because you came out after, didn't you? You said you were gobsmacked, you were sent off. And you talk about him being clever there. That was kind of the epitome. Yeah, no. And of course, I did catch him. But it was, I still to this day, I have no idea whether I'm meant to do it or not. Even being honest. Really? Yeah, I still have no idea. it never come in my head saying oh I'm going to stamp on him or and maybe it's something which I just just try and blank out blank out really but yeah it was it was a foul it should have been a foul to me and the referee allowed it to go on and then when you watch it when I look at it it looks like I've stamped on him so I understand the red cards but yeah that was that was then Portugal lads being very clever and knowing if you know I was going to giving England a big chance of winning the game and they've used a few little dark hearts to try and get me out of there.

18:27Was it like a build-up throughout Wayne? Because we obviously saw that but was there stuff being said? Were they kind of chipping away at you before then? No, not really. I think I'd started the game okay actually. I was playing quite well and yeah, no I think just once they get an opportunity they've jumped on it and then obviously you see once it happens the whole, I think the keeper might have even been there as well. They're all around the referee trying to get you sent off which is fine I've said this many times I've no problem with that they're wanting to win for Portugal and wanting to win for England and if it was your way around I would have done the exact same and Ronaldo's part in that K was interesting should we say yeah that wink to the bench watching that was like what is going on I was so scared because I was like are they going to play together again for a club.

19:21Yeah, what was that like, Wayne? I don't know. That was easy. I spoke to him right after the game in the tunnel. So, you know, no issue whatsoever. Well, that's the first thing you said, no issue. Surely you must have had some. Yeah, no, that's... Good luck in the semi-final. I think that's... What people don't see is in the first half, I'm trying to get Ronaldo booked for Darwin. So is there like a mutual respect of like, oh, I tried it, you got it? If I could have got Ronaldo sent off in the quarterfinal and we go through the same final, then I would have. And then for that game, we're rivals.

19:58And once it's over and we're back playing for United, then that's it, it's done. Yeah, I guess you're always going to kind of be interlinked with Carvalho now as well, aren't you, by the way? Because I hadn't really thought of how heavily, as you started talking, I was like, oh my gosh, yeah, 2006.

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20:54I turned around to a fan and he was screaming about my wife and about Brooklyn right to my face and wouldn't even look away. How do you go from that to being a billionaire? That's next time on Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts. Hi then.

21:19number four okay who have you got i went for i mean it was a toss-up between pepe or nesta but um i'll go nesta okay i also had pepe or pk but i know that pk has made wayne's list so just a word on pepe because pepe hasn't made your list has he wayne um no um another one well after that Cavalio game when I got sent off my next actual game of football was for Man United against Porto in the Ajax Cup pre-season friendly really and then I ended up getting a straight red den as well for Keita Pepe oh so that was Pepe's foot that one as well was it? well it went on red cards and he's gone down on his face and the referee said I elbowed him in the face and it'll be 100 % wearing a red card and what disappointed me more about that is

22:14because it was classed as a tournament even if it was a pre-season tournament the Dutch Federation sent it over to the FA and said you can do what you want with it and the FA banned me for three games Going back to Pepe, he is kind of like He's mad, let's just have it No, but he is to us or is that just like the theatrics? Is that part of his act and part of his skill set, Wayne? Yeah, I'd say so It was a typical European defender who knew the tricks and trying everything to help his team win. And you've got to respect that as well in ways. And the career he's had, you know, is incredible really.

22:55So yeah, he was a centre-back who you come up against and you just think, I just don't like you. And that's probably still why I didn't put him in me top five. I just love him. I love people that are a bit mad, right? I love people that are just barmy. And he felt like one of those where, you know, he'd karate chop someone and it'd be like, what do you mean it's a foul? And in his mind, it looked like there was nothing going wrong with what he's done. But yeah, I absolutely love that kind of defending. Okay, on to number three, Wayne. So for number three, I've got for Paolo Maldini. I feel like I don't even need to ask you why, really.

23:37No, I think obviously he's played both full-back or centre-back. And someone, you know, growing up watching, I used to watch him on a Sunday on Channel 4. And just iconic, really, iconic player. And then when I come up against him, I always remember it's probably one of the only times I've been in awe on a football pitch. Where I'm like, oh wow, I'm playing against Maldini. Was he as good as you expected when you played against him? Yeah, he was so clever, so his understanding of the game. I think he understood what I really liked about him and took from him is he understood the way the next five minutes in the game was going.

24:26And, you know, I don't know what he was saying because he was talking in Italian, but when he's talking to his teammates, you could see his teammates listening to him and they had some fantastic players and I think he was the one, he just had that aura about him which, you know, and then you go on to his defending, as I said about his reading of the game and you think you've got past him and he doesn't go straight to you or he'll just position himself in a better position to... He's played on every position in the back line as well, hasn't he? he's always positioned himself to allow one of his teammates to get back in alongside him, so to make him a bit more difficult feeling.

25:11And just nicking the ball to come into you, he'd wrap his leg around you, nicking it off you from nowhere. So he was definitely one of the best I've played against. Yeah, he's actually my number one, just because I think it's that whole aura, when you think of top defenders, he's literally the first name that comes to mind, isn't he, Kate? As a fan, as a player, it's just unanimous. Yeah, I just think it's one of those names as well. And how many generations that he played in as well. He played for a very, very long time. So when you do think of defending, yeah, Maldini's one of the first names that comes up.

25:46I put him at number two. I think both for personal and obviously how we played, he was my number three. And you sat next to him at an awards do as well, haven't you? Yeah, I did. We had an awards event and we sat there, so we sat right next to each other and then there's this big presentation about the best defender of all time and it's going through loads of stuff. So I've tapped him on the leg as if to say, well done. And then it come up and got announced to Sergio Ramos. And I felt terrible. I was thinking how... But at least he knows that he's Wayne Rooney's number one best-level defender.

26:26Well, he's my number three now, isn't he? Things have gone from bad to worse for Paul Paolo. No, but I was taking a wow because I was so sure that was going to be him. And it went. Obviously, it went to another good player. It's very much problem. Okay, so Pepe is number three. And we already know that Kay's number two is Maldini. But who's Wayne's? So for number two, I went with a player I played with and against Gerard Piquet. Okay, yeah. I mentioned him. He's been my awe on every number. Like, I want to get him in, but I don't know if I quite can. Why does he make your list? What was so impressive?

27:00because he was obviously also at Manchester United and it didn't really work for him. Yeah, he was a young lad at Man United, obviously. But I think he doesn't get the respect he deserves. And he weren't the quickest. But again, he positioned himself and put himself in some really good positions to counteract that. His ability with the ball was as good as any defender you'll ever see in terms of his passing through the lines and starting attacks off. obviously in a very good team like Barcelona and he was a winner I think he was a great character he was fun to be around obviously when we played with him his problem at Man United was when he was coming through he was technically he was fantastic but then the question was could he cope with it physically that was the question and it was probably a toss at the coin between him and Johnny Evans.

28:02And I think at the time we all felt Johnny was the better player and was suited more to the Premier League than Piquet would have been. And then Gerrard played against Bolton away from home and really struggled, which as a young lad to come up against that Bolton team, Sam Alves Bolton team was tough. And the manager made the decision to keep Johnny and let Piquet go back to Barcelona. and then from there I don't think any of us could have imagined the career he'd gone to have. I was going to say, Kay, as a United fan having seen that happen at Old Trafford during his time there were you surprised to see what he went on and did?

28:40A little, yeah. I was surprised a little but it just goes to show how important atmosphere he is and how different players are suited to different environments and different leagues. And also there is a lot of right place, right time as well with certain things. I mean, when he was coming through and when he was a young defender at United, you had like Rio and Vidic in the back line and trying to compete against them is very, very difficult. Whereas I think when he went to Barcelona, it was there for the taking and it really, really helped him go on and progress in the way he did. Okay, before we move on to number one, I forgot to say my number three and I'm going to say my number three now because he's not made either of your top five and it's the next Manchester United player.

29:23I went for Rio. Wayne did he not come into your thinking? So all of the players I've done is players I've played against the Champions League and I didn't play against Rio or Vintage Would you, would those, if we were doing just top five would they have made it either of them? Which one of the two? Both. Oh really? Okay, alright fair enough Yeah Rio for me is just like, I think he's one of the best defenders of all time just in general just period the time he was playing as well Wayne and the way football was changing and his classiness on the ball as well I think yeah no he's he was incredible I think because again so much I keep saying as reading of the game and I think when we spoke about the Arsenal two centre-backs before and you know and Van Dijk and Canate I think the partnership which Real and Vidic had gone was incredible and I think I don't think you could see a partnership where each defender compliments the other defender in such a good way and Vida was you know your rocker put his head into everything and he'd come off the amount of times he broke his nose and back of forwards heads and stuff he was your hard man back there and Rio was the one with a little bit of class, a bit more class in how he played the game and defensively he was quick he could hold up a high line he could defend deep and organise I think that was that was his biggest I think he was how he organised his team and his back line and constantly talking throughout the game I think that was his biggest which I don't think people really talk about that as much as he should really he like Vidage for instance very rarely spoke on the pitch and Rio would organise that back line so good he was a leader and yeah he would certainly be in the top five Okay then he was my number three my number two was Sergio Ramos so I mean we don't need to say much about him what a defender Wayne he doesn't make your list either No I've never I don't think I've come up against him really I played that wide Yeah no I played against him but I played that wide I think I've come and played against him and again he's he's another character and he's all and not and at times and the amount of yellow cards and red cards he's had is incredible so yeah he very much could have been in the top five but I think the one they chose in my opinion is slightly ahead of him I put Ramos as my number one just because of what I was mentioning yeah I did just because one was the leadership he had as well Master of the Dark Arts he might not have been the strongest defender in comparison to some of the other people and some of the other names that we're bringing up but he won it a fair few times and I think if we're talking about Champions League defenders winning it's got to come into it as well yeah he was sublime and now he's a rapper so

32:38he can do it all he would have been in my top five until I heard a song and then it's all right everyone's itching I'm sure to know who your number one was go on Wim mine was without question John Terry and people might say how he's a bit biased because he's going for the English centre back which he was just horrible to play against him and before every game I go into it because right I'll run him he's not quick I'm taking him into the channels taking him to where he doesn't want to go and but then he when you're talking about leaders and you know captain I think obviously for England when I played with him as captain he was fantastic and just everything was for trying to get things right for everyone around the hotel but then just how he defended us you know he was strong, good in the air tackled never pull out a threat on set pieces and he's one of them defenders who every time you go near him he just hurts you like he doesn't mean to but he's like he leaves something on you all the time and you know you come off the pitch hurt and we had some really good battles but and again I don't think people give him the credit he deserves he was he was incredible on the ball both feet with the ball as feet so yeah he was without doubt he was my number one Okay, he doesn't make either of our top fives, but maybe that's your United bias.

34:14And I just didn't want to put too many English players in. And for me, Rio, with that partnership with Vidic, just went in above him. But yeah, he's one of the best English defenders of all time, isn't he? What I liked about John Terry was the way he would sacrifice himself to get to the ball sometimes. You've got all sorts of footage where he's diving across trying to get his head on the ball and it's like an inch off the floor. and having that sort of determination in order to defend is pretty admirable, yeah. Wayne, do you remember any particular battles that you had with John Terry in any specific games where you remember walking off thinking, wow, that was a real battle?