UNCOVERED: Clichy on Mbappe, Henderson and France 2010

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1:06Discover the V-Series lineup at cadillac.com. And Guy Neville called everyone in and we had a vote to go on strike and every player voted to go on strike. I remember thinking, I want to play man. I want to play for you. You speak about Mbappe and how amazing he is as well but then you've got like Dembele and Elisa as well. I never I just thought I'd see the day with a friend Frank to come to rob the English players. Personally, I wouldn't have taken him. I completely understand why he's taking me. To help manage the training sessions the next day. Even being honest, I think, to help drive them training sessions because he is a leader, Jordan.

1:43Hello and welcome to the Wayne Rooney Show. We're in the midst of World Cup fever and as always, Wayne's here. But today we're joined by a very special guest, Gail Clichy, to talk all things World Cup. and we are recording before the France game, France's first game, so we don't know how that's gone so far. But how have you been finding the World Cup so far, guys? Well, the time difference is just a killer. Obviously, I'm waiting for France, England. I'm going to follow as well, Switzerland. But yeah, they're the two main teams that I'm going to follow, really. France and England. Yeah, what about yourself?

2:14Yeah, no, do you know what? I've enjoyed it more than I thought. I think some games have been poor, but some games I've really enjoyed and because I've played out there I know how difficult it is to play in that heat and they've been a lot quicker than what I thought maybe that's because the first game might slow down a little bit in the later stages but no Do you like the addition of the new teams to that 48 team? No I don't like the format I think there's too many teams and I think it's a shame you know when you see the Germany game I think there's teams who it's great great story but the teams who are just now happy to be there and that there's no ambition it's not their fault by the way no ambition of going through where i think you know that's why we're seeing some some poor games i think we're fighting negative football as well but those teams got no weapons you know to do anything so they have to have like back five and and the line of four and if we go back a few weeks ago with munich and psg 5-4 this is the football we want to see so we fighting negative football and bringing much more teams of that level is great for their country, but overall for football in general, I think.

3:27But what you'll never take away is Cape Verde, the result against Spain, which I think no one's seen coming. So that will never be taken away from them. They're not going to progress much further from the tournament. Well, you never know though, but you never know though, because I think in some groups, a third team can go through to the next round. Yeah, so you never know. I mean, their goalkeepers have been causing an absolute storm. Have you seen how many followers have been? Yeah, that's mad. That's six million, so is it? What's been the best moment of the World Cup so far? I would say the first goal for Qatar.

4:00You know, that's history. I don't know if it means anything, but for them, when you participate in a competition like that and you score your first goal and you get the first draw, first point, I think that's, for me, I think that's a beautiful story. Can they go further? I don't know. but that's a great moment for our country. For me, it was actually not on the pitch. I thought it was the Scotland fans in Boston. Did you see them in the stadiums, the baseball game? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought it was brilliant that they're at the baseball game singing Super John McGinn. It was brilliant of all there, they're marching through in the kilts with the bagpipes.

4:36I think everything... That's where I think the World Cups, the atmosphere, I remember obviously playing at World Cups and really enjoyed the one in Germany because you can feel the atmosphere. And that was me good saying with this World Cup being in three different countries is other than around the stadium, it's not going to feel like a World Cup. And people have spoke to her out there and I don't think it has unless you're around the stadium. So to see the Scotland fans bringing Scotland, you know, to Boston, I know it's a big Irish place, but bringing Scotland to Boston, I thought it was really good.

5:07I really liked seeing Australia get two past Turkey. I just thought nobody had any high expectations for Australia whatsoever. And Turkey, every World Cup comes around and people go, oh, Turkey are dark horses. Turkey are dark horses. Turkey are going to do something. And for them to put, where they're not historically a footballing nation, to put two past Turkey and win the game, I thought that was fantastic. They're working well, Australia, to be fair. You know, I've got a few of my friends playing there and they're saying that, you know, the environment is good. They're trying to grow the sports.

5:37So I'm not surprised, but Turkey, like you said, they're always big ambition. A bit like Tottenham, big ambition, but they're always failing. Do you know what? I'm looking forward to Norway. I think Norway will do well, you know. I think I'm looking forward to seeing them. I think they're at early hours this morning, aren't they? Yeah, as we're recording. Yeah, yeah. So I'm looking forward to watching them. I think they'll do well. Wasn't it Harland that, like, wasn't he in one of the games or something? As a spectator, I think I saw. Was he, yeah? Yeah, I think. He seems like a good lad. I think I've seen different things of him off the pitch now.

6:08He seems like a good teammate. Right, let's get straight into it. So what do we think of England or Scotland's chances? We need an outside voice on here, Gael. Do you think England are contenders? Yeah, of course. Of course. And I'm not saying this just because I love England. I'm saying this because of what Wayne said a few minutes earlier. And I do feel that English football has evolved over the last 15 years, you know, opening doors for different managers, different culture to mix a bit of the game. But I think if you look in terms of quality, there is quality all around the squad. intensity.

6:43Premier League for me is probably not the best league in the world for some people but it's the most competitive one and you can see that clearly when we have players from England coming in France or to Spain, the first six, eight months, you can feel that urgency to make effort, to make tackle that driving force to win, that desire to play football and I think England got that naturally. I think the talent is there I think they have a manager that can actually guides a group and the last competition they did the last two competitions were actually of a good quality, so of course they're contenders like Wayne said, in big tournaments you need a bit of luck as well right time, right players in the right moment but I would want France to win of course, but if France cannot win it, I would put my money on England This is the first time, what Gail said before about France having a B and C team, this is the first time you can say England have got a B team, maybe not C.

7:42But then if you look at Maguire, Foden, Colt Palmer, you look at the players who were left out. You see what's happened with Dembele the last couple of years. And there's no coincidence that he was not struggling, but he wasn't at the level he is now. Can you imagine how he feels when Luis Enrique says, I don't want these players, I want you. and then for the other players to say this is about the team you have to work hard together as a team we'll win as a team we're not winning because of one individual we're doing it together as a team it lifts everyone it gives everyone that feeling like this coach appreciates you running he appreciates you tackling it's not just someone who's got to get the ball score from 30 yards or take everyone on it's actually he's prioritised the team and it shows that working together as a team it works.

8:36Do you think that's why probably somebody like Jordan Henderson has been called in? Jordan I think is personally I wouldn't have taken him but I think I completely understand why he's taking him. He's taking him I think firstly to help manage the training sessions the next day. Even being honest I think to help drive them training sessions because he is a leader Jordan and the day after the game you know it's like when you don't play and the players are recovering and then you have to go and train and it's intense and it's like you want to be over that side in the pool or on the bike stretching and stuff.

9:11And Jordan will make sure that session stays. And the manager mightn't even be at that session. The manager might be speaking to the players from the game before, the night before. So Jordan will be there and he'll be helping drive that session and push that session and keep the standards high. So I think that's a big reason why he's there. But he has had a good season as well. So will he get used? I don't think he will. I don't think he'll get much game time. but I think he's experienced and players will be down it's natural it's normal in the World Cup players get upset they struggle to deal with maybe getting a bit of stick in the media they struggle to not get in the game time and Jordan will recognise that and he'll be someone who if a player doesn't want to go to the manager with it he'll go and speak to him and say I just need a bit of guidance here so I get why he's there but I would have personally taken another player who I think can push more for a starting place I think it's a good point because I think when you build a group like this for a competition, you have three types of groups.

10:05You have the star player who will always play. You have the player that are here to carry water and they know they're here for that. And you have the in-betweeners. Carry water. No, but that's why we call them in France. And then you have the in-betweeners and you can have two types of in-betweeners. The one that is pushing to take the start's 11th position or you have the one like Rain just said about Anderson who are here. And I think he's actually grateful to be part of this team because he knows yeah he knows so you can decide the in-betweeners if you pick wrong you you can actually destroy the spirit of your team and you know funny enough I was that kind of guy when Deschamps didn't pick me for Brazil I was the in-betweener that was pushing to start the game and he told me 10 years after when I became assistant of the under 21 he told me that's the reason I didn't take you because I knew that you were going to put me in trouble because you're training really hard.

11:01But I know in my head, I've got my start 11. So what does it, what happens if you perform every day and you push and you push and you push and the group start to realise that, hey, this guy should be playing, you know, so he would disrupt the energy of the group. So your in-betweeners, sorry, your in-betweeners is probably the most important pick that you will have. Well, Jordan was actually, I think, might be wrong here, but before the game, didn't I? I think he was taking the session, no? Warm-up, yeah. I've seen that it's beautiful the ball he's playing it in he's playing it in and he'll go and defend so he was actually taking a coach attention yeah the lads were talking about how important he was to the squad as well I saw Jude Bellingham talking about it as well we saw Scotland play have they impressed you?

11:48I found a little bit of a soft spot for them oh really? yeah I want them to do well yeah do you know I think for me I think it was a note I know some of the players sure my mate Darren Fletcher his son Tyler has been called up into the squad and I sent my picture Darren sent me Scotland kits with number 8 Fletcher on the back and I've done pictures and sent them back to him and stuff so I think that brings it a bit closer as well so why want to do well I think for me it's just wonderful seeing it's another home nation right and seeing I wouldn't say the same with Wales I always remember the day we got knocked out to Iceland and the Wales team were watching the hotel and they're up celebrating and I just thought they can be happy we got knocked out it's not a problem but and they're all posting on the social media and I just I've never forgot them Fair I mean yeah Wayne Rooney holds a grudge Big one as well Yeah I think Scotland can progress though What you're looking at is you're probably looking at three points but They've got that but it's goal difference because only eight of the eight teams after 16 in third place go through.

13:01I think they can nick a point in any of the other games. So it's going to go on goal difference. So I think they've looked at it on all the data. People have looked at it and saying if you're on three points with minus two goal difference, that should get you through. I don't trust any of the data nerds. But now they've got Morocco and Brazil coming up. I'm just going to say this. Brazil aren't the Brazil of old. I think this isn't 98. This isn't 2002. They're not, but they've got good players. Yeah, but when your striker plays for Brentford, you're not Brazil.

13:37Don't try to get us in trouble there. No, I'm not getting you in trouble. It's me in trouble, right? But if your striker plays for Brentford, it's not Brazil. Yeah, but at the same time, Italy has been out of the competition for like two competitions. So football is different now. And what I like to say with what Rain is saying is that you don't expect Scotland to reach semi-finals, but they're going to bring what they can bring, that togetherness, that energy. And in today's football, of course, if you have that, if you have those values, you can do something. Right, well, let's talk a bit about France.

14:11Gail, what's your expectation to France? I mean, there's always high expectations for France. You lost to Ivory Coast in the build-up to the World Cup, but what do you see your chances? That's just a friendly game, but there's a big point to it. Every time France is playing one of those African sides, it's always been difficult. And it's even more hard nowadays because these nations are growing. Like if you take Morocco, for example, it's been two decades. They've been working on bringing players who've been coached in France, French academy, French football. And now, can you get to the French national team?

14:52we can give you right now a tournament for you to express your talent. So you find those teams, those nations with players that know how to play the game, as we know in France, because they've been through the rank of French Academy, strong, physical, with good knowledge of the game. And it's very difficult. So that game is not an important game. But for the first game of the tournament against Senegal, this is what we should expect. Well, that's right. Senegal, I think there's 12 players who played for Senegal who were born in France. So you can imagine for them players, they'll be thinking, right, the French Federation didn't think we were good enough to play for that.

15:28Exactly, yeah. That's it. They want to show France that they're better than them. It's a very similar situation with Morocco, isn't it? Because I looked at the Morocco starting line-up and most of them were born outside of Morocco as well. If you look in France, I think in that competition, I think you have 98 or 99 players who were born in France. So they're playing in different countries. And like Wayne said, rightly so, it's either I need to show you that you didn't want to pick me, but I'm good enough to play against or for you. And if it's not the case, I wanted to represent my parents' country and I'm going to show you what you're missing out.

16:05So it's always a difficult game for French national team, but this Senegal team is special as well. So what do you think is an acceptable finish for France? Is it winning the whole thing? I think you can't talk less than semi-final, but that's being generous as well. You know, with the player we have in the past 10 years, you know, with Deschamps, you did two World Cup final. You won one, lost one on penalties. You lost Euro Championship against Portugal. This is his last tournament. People are saying in France, his teams are not teams that play football, but they win. So you can kind of see the story.

16:44last big tournament for him big generation of players can they bring the cup home? Surely they can so really if you want France to do well they have to go to the final other than this okay it would be acceptable if you reach the semi-final but with the player we have and what's been happening over the last 10 years you'd like to see them reaching the final Going back to what we were saying before about the added teams to the competition this tournament won't start really until the quarter finals and then you're going to see the big teams really in the quarter finals unless you might get one who shocks you and maybe like the Netherlands don't qualify and someone else comes through but you're going to see the big teams in the quarter finals and then that's when it starts really and then you need a bit of luck there because you know I think there's Spain I know they do the first game but you imagine Spain, Portugal, France England probably the four favourites.

17:45And then you've got Brazil and Argentina as well. So, you know, it doesn't really kick off till the quarterfinals. Do you think there's too much pressure on Mbappe when you're coming into this? I mean, he's come off an interesting sort of season at Real Madrid. I mean, he's been scoring, but obviously they haven't won anything. I think he's been brilliant. And I think he scored how many goals? Over 40, yeah. 40-odd goals. And he gets stick because... and Real did a different clubbing and he gets stick because he goes on holiday.

18:18Everyone knows, obviously Gael is playing as well, if a player gets an injury, it's good for them to go and get a bit of sun rest a little bit, especially if it's before the World Cup. So yeah, I think you talk about pressure, I don't think it looks to me like he's never felt felt pressure and you know he's scored a Hattuck World Cup final he's won the World Cup and he's just a top quality player and it's just a shame that people try him listen Dembele has done brilliant that's why I'm interested tonight did he play Mbappé up top and put Dembele wide did he you know leave one of them out I think he's also struggling with the comparison of Paris you know he was there he was the face of the club trying to reach the final and win the Champions League with Paris.

19:07And obviously he's leaving. And the same year, Paris is actually winning the Champions League and the following years as well. So in France, people like to hate our champions. And unfortunately for him, he's the victim of his success. But Wayne knows this. I've never been in that seat where you have to carry the weight of a team. He's that kind of guy. And when you score 40 plus goals in Madrid, nobody can stand in front of me and tell me that that player didn't have a great season. OK, maybe the manager, maybe the club didn't structure the team in a way for him to work and be successful. But when you score 40 plus goals, of course, as a striker...

19:50What's the view like in France? Do they love him or is there a massive amount of expectation for him? No, I think, you know, in France, but that's just not him. you know, Cherry, okay, I'm going to bring this back. And sorry, guys, if some of you are from Ireland, but the handball that sent us to the World Cup, you know, in South Africa. Maradona was, you know, good because of that situation. And we destroyed Cherry because of the same situation. It's just to show you that the one mistake Kylian did, he said, okay, the year before he left for Madrid, he said, oh, if I wanted to win the Champions League, I wouldn't be here.

20:26I would be in Madrid, you know. and then he left to Madrid and they won the Champions League and he hasn't won. So people just like to hate when you are successful in France. So it's not a question of pressure. It's just a question of perception of the guy and the player, really. Yeah, I've always thought he's performed incredibly well for France. I feel like personally some of his best performances have always come in a French shirt. Can you imagine to go on a hat stick in a World Cup final? But I think he's been on the losing side. Is he what? Four or six goals to the most goals scored in World Cup competition.

21:02He's what? He's 24? He's 20-something? I mean, that's just, it's just crazy. You know, it's like... It's incredible. And he's very close now to beating Olivier Giroud. Also, yeah. His record for France as well. So I think you're forgetting, I think, as a society, it's not just France in England, in, you know, different countries. instead of appreciating what's in front of them I think we're trying to look at you know the negatives Kylian Mbappe will win a Champions League I think there's no doubt about that but I think we we fail to recognise what's in front of us and enjoy it yeah and we're looking and saying oh he didn't do this here or he didn't do this there whatever instead of saying you know what let's just enjoy this is a generational talent we're possibly never going to see something like him he's as close to Arnane as I've seen yeah so you look at Messi and Ronaldo they're top top whatever Mbappe is as close to Arnane as you see he's skilful he can drive with people running behind score goals and I think we're at danger of not appreciating him now and then we're going to look back and say I grew up in that generation why didn't I appreciate that Take the leash off your laptop with the processor that gives you long battery life.

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22:57I mean, you look at that French front line, we speak about Mbappe and how amazing he is as well, but then you've got like Dembele and Elisa as well. I never thought I'd see the day where French coming to rob the English players.

23:12I was laughing when you see where they do the line-up, all the French players say the names. Yes. Yeah, I've seen that. Michael Alissé. Don't French it. That was a bad accent. They've got a tradition as well where they wear the kits and he's got a Chelsea kit on. Yeah, he's crazy. But it's still amazing. Like I said, Dembele and Alissé. You as a French fan or as a French person yourself must be expecting goals galore. Are we surprised by now what France can produce? you know if I'm being honest you know well like you said you're not you nicked him from us so you know what you know it's a funny thing because I think he will be the idol of many in France because of that you know we have that situation like you know you guys can have or maybe Wales or Scotland with different nationalities you know like we were talking before we've played chosen Morocco or Senegal or whatever from the very first minute he always said he wanted to play for France And this is a big thing because in the end, you have to wait for your time.

24:23But maybe your time is not this competition. But if a nation can actually give you that tournament now, some player will just go. And for him, the situation was very simple. I think he was in the days where he left Palace to go to Munich. And he actually said to company, I'm going to come and I'm really happy to come. But I have to be able to finish. you have to allow me to finish the adventure at the Olympic with France. That's a big statement because this is probably the best day of his life and the most important one because if Bayern said no, then what does it mean? Are you staying at Palace?

24:58So it just shows you that the guy was always, and he played for France, youth level, but he was always committed to France, but yet he doesn't speak as good as a French guy. It's a funny story. He's grown up speaking, isn't it? But it's similar with Harvey Barnes, isn't it? Who got offered the opportunity to go and play for Scotland in the World Cup. And he's obviously English and he said no, he wants to try and play for England, which I respect a lot. And is he going to play for England or not? You don't know, but he's turned down the opportunity to go and play at the World Cup to try and play for England.

25:34So I completely get that and respect it. What is it about France, though, that makes you able to produce such amazing players because you could put out numerous squads and still get far. I reckon you could put out a B team and still get to about the quarters. And the C team as well. And the 21, no joke. But I think since the War Cup in 1998, I think France got a system that works, you know, to develop and nurture players. I think England are benefiting as well from foreign coaches coming in. And now we're seeing more and more English players going out to play abroad, obviously you look at Harry Kane, Anthony Gordon obviously he's gone out there, we've got a lot of English players now, Willem, Drew Bellingham's been out in Germany, he's out in Spain, a lot of players going to play abroad but I think the foreign coaches who've come into England, it's no surprise over the last 10 years England has done better in tournaments because they're getting coached by a Guardiola, by a Jürgen Klopp, by a Mourinho and technically English players are better than they've ever been now so I think seeing something different when you come to the system in England which obviously I've been to in the academies it was all one way of playing it was fight it was tackle it was you know be aggressive get into one face now it's more okay can we play out can we take the ball can we have control of the game so I think the English players are benefiting from these top coaches coming in as well Gail I can't have you here and not talk about 2010 what's that I don't want to talk about 2030.

27:08Okay, let's keep. Next page, man. I was watching The Bus, that documentary. I was in The Bus. Yeah, exactly. I just want to ask, I guess, how difficult was it during that period? I mean, you were sort of like a younger player back then as well. Being amidst all of that as well, I mean, Raymond Dominic and the French media and all of that. How was it being in and amongst all of that? You know, after that tournament, we had like people from the Federation calling each of us individually to have, you know, the feeling of what happened. And they asked me, you know, what would you change? And I said, well, you'd be shocked, but I wouldn't change anything.

27:53That was a dream to play for my country in the World Cup. And I've done it. I would have loved for it to be different but this is it and it's only coming like 20 years later that story but it just shows you and with Wayne we speak sometime about being a coach and being a leader of a team that moment is actually happening because Dominic decided to take Thierry Henry off the captaincy and put players in front of him rightly so or not I don't know but from that moment on in that in that burst if Cherry is still the authority within the dressing room this doesn't happen really so you think he was a talisman then you should of course Patrice wasn't as captain did he?

28:42Patrice was captain but it's not I'm not saying that Patrice is responsible for this I'm just saying that Cherry had a different stature well at that time obviously I was playing with Patrice at that time at Man United and he was still quite young as well and Patrice is always outspoken and he'll speak his mind but sometimes I think you need probably a little bit of experience of calmness experience in that moment and and if you're saying in 2010 that Patrice should be captain over Thierry then you probably say not sure I know probably you might want to say but probably not in that moment because you look even William Gallas in the documentary says he was expecting to become the captain as well well he was the vice captain after Thierry so you know if you take it step by step, the captain is out, then the vice captain and everything changed.