Jennifer Lawrence

0:08Welcome to This Cultural Life, the series in which leading artistic figures choose the most significant influences and experiences that have inspired their own creativity. I'm John Wilson, and my guest in this episode is one of the world's biggest film stars, the Oscar-winning actor Jennifer Lawrence. Her breakthrough role in the 2010 drama Winter's Bone secured her first Academy Award nomination when she was just 20 years old, and she won the Best Actress category two years later for Silver Linings Playbook. Since then, she's been one of the most prolific, critically acclaimed, and highest-paid actors in Hollywood as the star of the Hunger Games series and three X-Men movies.

0:47Other leading roles include American Hustle, Joy, and most recently the psychological drama Die My Love. Now we're sounding good. You're sounding good. Yeah? I'm just a little bit of a test. Did you have the breakfast? Have you had breakfast? I had a full English breakfast. The sausage was one of the best sausages I've ever had. The bolognese last night was a par, so I was really relieved to have a nice breakfast. Great. That sounds great. Jennifer Lawrence, welcome to This Cultural Life. Thank you. You're here in London on a promotional visit for your new film, Die My Love. Is it all promo? Do you have time out?

1:26Do you get to enjoy London when you're here? No. No, not at all. I was going to maybe grab dinner last night, but then I had like a midnight fitting instead. So I've been relying on room service so far. Right, okay. You don't get to wander around and explore the city. No, it's pretty packed in. You grew up near Louisville in... Sorry. After all the mic testing. It's good to get the plosive out of the way, the high peaks. You grew up near Louisville in Kentucky on your parents' farm. So was it a very rural upbringing? It was like suburbia slash rural. Our house was in, you know, the suburbs. And then we had a farm where my parents both worked.

2:14My mom ran a children's camp and my dad worked in construction. And then he started kind of working on the farm. So we were there every day. And siblings? I have two older brothers. And was watching movies at home a big shared family activity? No, I mean, it was the 90s. So we had our videotapes that we just never really renewed. So I would just kind of watch the same movies over and over again. Uncle Buck was very formative. That was one of the ones that I've watched probably over 500 times. Starring John Candy. Yes. Where do you live? In the city. Do you have a house? Apartment. Own a rent? Rent.

2:56What do you do for a living? Lots of things. Where's your office? I don't have one. How come? I don't need one. Where's your wife? Don't have one. How come? It's a long story. Do you have kids? No, I don't. How come? It's an even longer story. I'm my dad's brother. What's your record for consecutive questions asked? 38. I'm your dad's brother, all right. That sort of screwball comedy, was that one of the biggest? Yeah, I think I mostly grew up on screwball comedies. I didn't really grow up in, like, a cinephile family. And John Candy just has this, like, warmth about him. I mean, he's funny. He was a talented actor, but he had this just, like, genuine warmth.

3:34that's shown through. In trains, planes, automobiles, or planes, trains, automobiles, I come from which way around it is. Oh my God, that's one of my, I watched that every Thanksgiving. Another film that, in the notes that you sent us before we met today, you said that Dumb and Dumber, starring Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels, is another one. I'm sure that these were not what you were most excited to talk about, but I had to answer truthfully. I didn't discover a woman under the influence until I was 19. before that it was screwball comedies and I also just still do love screwball comedies and sitcoms Dumb and Dumber was my favourite movie for decades You are known primarily for your dramatic roles often quite serious roles I mean there are comedic aspects to many of the films, you know maybe we see it in Joy or even in Silver Linings Playbook and apart from No Hard Feelings which was quite a recent film there are no sort of outright comedies on the CV Is it something that you kind of aspire to that you might be moving into eventually?

4:33Yeah, I think so. I don't feel, I don't know that I'm good at it. I'm like scared that, because I love, I mean, the comedic greats, you know, like a Julia Louise Dreyfuss or an Alec Baldwin, they tackle the comedy exactly like a drama, which is what I intended to do on No Hard Feelings. I don't know if I did a good job. I mean, I love the movie, but I don't, I didn't, you know, I feel like I was too aware, or if I do comedy, I'm too aware and excited that it's funny. I don't know if I can stay rooted in the reality of it enough because I'm like, oh my God, a joke. How exciting. I meant to ask this on the phone, but how old are you?

5:17Well, I know you were looking for someone early to mid-20s. I'm slightly older. Right. How old? I just turned 29. Recently? Last year. So you're 29? Last year. And how old are you, like, right now? One more year older. So 30? Yeah, 32. Take us back to school days. What were you like at school? Academic? Sporty? Academic. LOL. No. I was hyper. I was the class clown. I had a lot of energy. But I also have, I'm part introvert. I don't know if I'm half introvert. I don't know. I'm pretty extroverted to share half. But I do recall my, like, drained social battery at the end. And that's when I would go down into the basement and watch movies.

6:08Do you mean because you were always on show at school? You were the center of attention? Yeah, I think I just, like, remember, like, the bus drive home would be when my energy just started kind of leaving me. And I wouldn't be able to, like, speak to anybody. Math, if you had told me when I was young that I would be able to survive without it and that one day I'd have a calculator on my phone, And I mean, math was my most formidable enemy. I liked English. I always did well in English. Were you in school plays, performing at school? I was in church plays. My school didn't really have plays. But I never got a good part.

6:43I was never a good auditioner. But was it an ambition to be a storyteller from a young age? I don't think so, because growing up in Kentucky, I didn't really ever think of that as an option. I would kind of, you know, when I thought about being a grown-up, you know, I thought about being a mom and I was like, well, maybe I'll be an interior designer, which is laughable now because I'm certainly not gifted in that. But it just wasn't really a possibility. And then when I went, I went to New York for the first time with my mom and I got, what's it called? Scouted? Yeah, like a talent scout. In the street, was it?

7:21Yeah, I was watching street dancing in Union Square. again, from Kentucky, I'd never seen street dancing. Anyway, he asked if he could take my picture. And then modeling agencies were setting up meetings. In one of the first meetings, I learned that very kind of intense modeling agencies won't let you act and won't let you do commercials. And somehow I had made up my mind, you know, that, well, I'm only going to sign with one that lets me act. My mom was like, you are lucky that anybody's like talking to you. Just say yes to anything. But I think I started remembering, like, I would watch, you know, the Lizzie McGuire show, and then I would like look in the mirror and kind of, I think it kind of woke up out of like this dormant, because there wasn't a place for it, you know, and then this kind of performer like peeked out and was like, Oh, no, you, you want to act.

8:14And so you're in New York with your mom initially. But then from what I understand, you moved to New York at the age of 14 with your brother. I did. So you left school in Kentucky. Did you enroll in New York or did you just stop going to school? It's so funny that I still get nervous about this. Like my parents are going to go to jail. I think that the statute of limitations is up. But it was summer when my brother and I first went there. And then once it was clear that I was staying, I was supposed to do online schooling, which I tried to do, but my family were not very organized. and also set kids, underage kids, if you have a GED, then you're more likely to get hired because they don't have to pay for a tutor, a good enough diploma.

8:56It's a general education doctorate. I don't know. So my mom just kind of made one like on Microsoft Word. and once we had this fake GED I couldn't get schooling because then that would I don't know show our lie I mean I guess I still could have I but no I have no education. So you're telling me you weren't educated after the age of 14? After the age of 14. Formally educated? Formally educated. Where were you living? Oh my first apartment when my dad came to try to like bring me home realized how badly I wanted this when he saw my living conditions. I mean, it wasn't even that bad of a neighborhood.

9:43It was like 23rd and Lexington. It was like Gramercy. But one of the walls was made out of cardboard, and it was extremely rat-infested. There was no hot water. There was no kitchen. God. Just you and your brother? Just me and my brother, yeah. And he's only 18 at that time? And he was 18, and yeah. Technically an adult. Yeah, and then they paid, my brother had to go back, and then they paid a girl to watch me, but she didn't really watch me. What were you doing in the daytime then? Because I presume he had some kind of job. I was going to go-sees and auditions. So you were serious about it by this time.

10:1714, you knew you wanted to be a actor. Yeah, I had an agency. My first agency was CESD. Okay. And so, you know, my whole day was filled with walking to and getting lost on the subway and trying to go to auditions and go-sees. But apart from the school play or the church plays, No formal training, absolutely no theatrical training at all. No, I mean, I was in like a theater thing, like an after school thing where we covered Shakespeare. I wouldn't say it was like acting lessons. It felt more like an extracurricular like English lesson. I really like, I loved that. Like, you know, hearing like Othello like broken down in a way that I could like understand.

10:58I thought it was great. but then when it was actually like show time to like show our parents everybody did like a 10 minute kind of thing and I was Desdemona and it was the scariest I like broke out in a rash I was so petrified and I was just like I don't like this part of it I'd rather go back to the like tell me stories so yeah I didn't I didn't like think of that as like oh I want to be an actor because I considered that to be quite scary more Shakespeare to come in the future do you think Well, I mean, no. I guess I could have put down Othello instead of Dumb and Dumber.

11:43On This Cultural Life, Jennifer Lawrence, my guests choose the most significant creative influences and experiences that have informed their own career. And one of your biggest influences that you've chosen is the actor and director Jodie Foster, and particularly her performance in the 1976 Martin Scorsese film Taxi Driver.

12:05So why have you chosen Jodie Foster? Well, first of all, I have to say that's an impossible ask. Because like Wong Kar Wai is also like one of the greatest directors I've ever seen. And also One Battle After Another just came out. and now I'm like, is that the best movie I've ever seen? So it's really hard to pick one, but Jodie Foster, she was I think the same age as me when she was doing that. Taxi driver. Yeah, when I first kind of started. Yeah. And so that was, I guess, inspiring to me. Did you see it at the time then? Terrifying. I mean, when you were in New York, did you see it when you were about 14, 15?

12:42Yeah, I started because then I had an agency and so they were like, you need to see this movie, you need to see that. Like I had like a grown-up telling me kind of what to watch. So I saw Taxi Driver when I was 14, and her performance is just so pure. Why do you want me to go back to my parents? I mean, they hate me. Why do you think I split in the first place? There ain't nothing there. Yeah, but you can't live like this. It's a hell. Girls should live at home. Didn't you ever hear of women's lib? What do you mean women's lib? You're a young girl. You should be at home now. You should be dressed up.

13:17You should be going out with boys. You should be going to school. You know, that kind of stuff. God, are you square? Did you relate to her on the fact that she was a child actor at that time or the scenario of the character that she plays, Iris, alone in New York and very vulnerable? Do you think you related on that level as well? That's so interesting. I did not think about that. Did you feel vulnerable? I did, but I was so, I ultimately felt so lucky. Like the worst thing that could have happened to me was something go wrong and I have to go back to Kentucky and like go back into school. So I felt really like lucky.

13:57Like I was like really getting away with something. I think as an adult looking back in retrospect, yes, of course, that's why I identified with it. And that's why it was so powerful to me. Thank you so much for pointing that out. I will. How much do you charge for this session? But it is interesting, isn't it? I think Jodie Foster was 12 at the time. She was? Taxi driver. Oh, wow. And you were 14. So, I mean, you had two years experience on her. Yeah, I was her elder. In 2009, I think you were actually directed by Jodie Foster in that film, The Beaver, which starred Mel Gibson. I think by the time the film was released, which was two years later, he, of course, was embroiled in all of the controversy, the allegations of racism and abusive behavior.

14:39Forget about Mel Gibson, just back to Jodie Foster. What was it like being directed by one of your heroes? It was incredible. I, she was so kind and so normal. I spent so much time just kind of hoping that I would get, you know, a job, a commercial or like a sitcom where I could, you know, pay for rent and just kind of make my way doing this professionally. And by the time I did The Beaver, I had already starred in like a couple, I did, you know, an indie called The Poker House and I had won something for it. And then I did The Burning Plane and I want to, this sounds so like braggy, but I won something else.

15:16And then I did Winter's Bone. And so I had kind of experience. This was like my fourth movie. And so I was kind of like, whoa, what direction is this going? And I was a little nervous on the kind of personal front because I had always known that I wanted to be a mom. And that was always the most important thing to me. And I just had no reference for what that looks like if you're famous or if you're a movie star or an actress or something. And she was such a sweet mother and so normal. And Julianne Moore was also really inspirational in that way. When we were doing The Hunger Games, I remember her being on the phone with her teenage daughter and being like, oh, I don't know, sweetie,$50 is a lot to spend on something that you're only going to wear once because it was Halloween.

15:59And she would just talk about her kids. And it just made me feel so much better. Because I think before that, I felt like it was like a choice. Like, oh, well, if I do this, then my entire idea of being a mom is different. And they made me feel like it wasn't. So Jodie Foster was maternal to you. I mean, she looked after you because she was so young. I'm going to quote you because in 2016, you presented Jodie Foster with a Britannia Award, which I think is an offshoot of the BAFTAs presented in Hollywood. And you said in your speech, you said, Jodie once said to me, one day you'll look back at the choices you made as an actor and it will reflect something that was going on in your personal life.

16:36And then you said, but I did. And the consistent theme in all of my characters was that they were all white trash with too much responsibility.

16:46I would like to amend that. I think looking back, it's not surprising to see that most of the characters that I played were adulterified children, children that were forced into kind of being their own parent at a young age. What is it you want? We hold the bond on Jessup Dolly. He didn't show for court. That ain't no one. Jessup signed over everything. If he doesn't show a trial, see, the way the deal works is, he's all going to lose his house here. We've got some place to go. I'll find him. Girl, I've been looking. I said I'll find him. Winter's Bone was your breakthrough role. I mean, an astonishing performance as a teenager looking after young siblings and trying to find the absent father who's the drug dealer.

17:35You've said before it was a part that you really wanted. How did you go about getting that part? Well, first I auditioned. In California, I was doing a sitcom at the time in L.A., and then they told my agent that I was too pretty, and they moved casting to New York. So I flew to New York, took the red eye, didn't put any makeup on, you know, just kind of went, which, like, now I'm thinking back. Like, you were, like, 18. You probably looked amazing coming out. It's like not if I did a red eye now. Auditioned again. And I probably, I think I put a different name maybe down or something. Maybe they wouldn't have even noticed.

18:15Who cares? And then I auditioned a second time, and then they liked me. But why did you want that part so badly, do you think? Well, I think looking back, I think I probably identified a lot with somebody, a young person with a lot on their shoulders. Did you feel like you had a lot on your shoulders when you were young? Is that why so many of those characters have recurred, do you think? It's really funny. It's exactly as Jodi said. At the time, no, because at the time I was living my dream. I felt so grateful that my parents were letting me do this, that I wasn't in Kentucky and going to school.

18:58I was really grateful. As an adult, looking back now, yeah, I was petrified that I would run out of money and have to go back or, you know, that I would, something would happen and I'd have to go back and live a life that I didn't want. You were Oscar nominated for Winter's Bone. Was it that part, do you think, that led directly to you being cast as Katniss Everdeen in The Hunger Games? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I still auditioned. Yeah, but I mean, again, there are similarities, aren't there? The sort of the young girl with so much responsibility on her shoulders. Cream Rose Everdeen. Crem! I'm on, dear!

19:38I volunteer as tribute.

19:44Our tributes, Peter Malark and Katniss Eberdine. They just want a good show. That's all they want. There's 24 of us, Gail. Only one comes out. What's interesting, though, is in all of these films, in the face of adversity, your characters are undergoing awful trials and tribulations, but your presence on screen is often very, very still and contained. There's a very sort of understated quality to a lot of your performances. And I wonder how much that is. John Candy is that? It all goes back to Candy. You can see the John Candy in it. Maybe not Candy. I'm wondering if it's to do with not having that theatrical training.

20:22Because very often that sort of encourages a more ostentatious, showy style. And you don't have that. Well, thank you. When I was auditioning for agencies and I was 14, one of the agencies sent me to an acting teacher. And the acting teacher actually told my mom, don't put her in anything. Like she has a natural gift or, you know, whatever. So, no, I didn't have any formal training. Every time I do a movie, though, still to this day, I freak out and think, you know, I can't do it. And I should work with an acting coach. and I always take one meeting with an acting coach and then I don't call them back.

21:00At this point, I think it's part of my process. I mean, do you have any theatrical ambitions? I wish I could say, it is so scary to me, the idea of doing that in front of people. And it's just so, I don't know how people do it. And I don't know if I would be very good at it because I don't, I think you have to use so much more of your body and you have to be so aware of your face. And I try to actively be unaware of my face and try to deactivate any kind of awareness over my body or my face and just kind of put myself in this situation mentally. And I don't know if that would translate to an audience.

21:47And also it's like eight shows a week. I have two kids. I don't know when I would. Do you watch your performances? back after you've after a film has been released do you make a habit of putting them on a year later just to you know check how how it was no I no I watch them you know like I'll go to the premiere and I'll watch it with my family but no a year later I I wouldn't I mean maybe I should geez that's a good idea you've worked with the director David O Russell three times now Silver Linings Playbook American Hustle and Joy what do the best directors give you as an actor do do you think?

22:28I mean, acting lessons. I'm always really excited to work with somebody. I feel like David gave me muscles that I didn't know that I had. I feel like he, like, in so many ways kind of taught me how to act. I mean, I had done movies before him and stuff, but I was just, his notes were so unique that it made me think about things in a different way. and everything was so spontaneous and so alive. It was just a very unique process of really being there at the beginning stages of the character being developed and watching his inspiration and how it is just so right on the surface for him and being a part of the process of kind of building those characters from the beginning as opposed to just kind of being handed a script and performing it.

23:22I told you not to put metal in the science song. What'd you do that for? Don't make such a big deal. Just get another one. I don't want another one. I want the one that Carmine gave me. I want the one that Carmine gave me. Carmine, Carmine. Why don't you just marry Carmine, get a little gold microwave and put it on a chain around your neck? You want to be more like Carmine? Why don't you build something like he does instead of all your empty deals? Empty, empty. By the time of American Hustle, you'd established yourself as one of the biggest names in Hollywood, but I think it's around the time of the release of that film that you found out that your male co-stars were being paid a lot more than you.

23:57And you wrote an essay in which you said, I'm over trying to find the adorable way to state my opinion and still be likable. How much has changed, do you think, in the last 10 years since that whole debate about gender parity when it comes to pay in Hollywood? I mean, there's still a gap, you know, so there's still work to be done. I think if my angry letter did anything or helped anybody, I hope that it just helped women find their voice. And when women start finding their voice, men have to start learning how to deal with it. And I think that that can start to shape the culture and have effects of just, you know, not taking the easy way out because you're nervous about how somebody is going to feel or feel about you.

24:46I remember when I was doing Joy, I was upset about something. I think the scheduling was really off or something wasn't right. And so I asked a producer to come in and talk to me about it. And they just kind of like proceeded to tell me why I was like wrong about everything. And I was like, okay, okay, well, thank you. And then he left. And I was like, what was the point of that? Like, why did I call him in? It was more about me. Like, why did you get scared? Like, say it. And so I kind of made a vow to myself after that. I was like, I'm not going to say anything anymore that I don't mean. I'll be kind, but I intend to say what I mean.

25:28Well, you have different agency in Hollywood now because, of course, you're working as a producer as well. And we started this part of the conversation talking about Jodie Foster, who has produced and also directed. Is that something that you intend to follow in her career path as well, directing? I would love to direct one day. Surprise, surprise, comedy. yeah that is that is a big dream of mine really comedy so it goes back to those videos in the in the 90s john candy and yeah dumber dumber well julia louise dreyfus was also i mean veep is also just one of my like nighttime like i'll just watch i i i worship her look at this what is it they're calling you the no bs vp damn right they are i mean i lied and everything but It sounded true, at least.

26:14I think she's perfect. I study her. I am indebted to her talent.