Roma Football Club CEO: The Leader Behind Cristiano Ronaldo & José Mourinho.

0:00When I started to be the CEO of Roma, after two days I had 7000 people down of my office trying to kill me. Really, physically. And this was my start. Cristiano, I don't consider anymore a football player. He's beyond football. How much does Al Nasser pay him? Guido Fienga is one of the most respected football club CEOs. During his time at AS Roma, he worked with many stars, including Jose Mourinho. In 2023, he was appointed CEO of Al Nasser, the Saudi Arabian club captained by Cristiano Ronaldo. We produce emotions for 90 minutes. Try to sell emotions. We can talk about religion. It's the same.

0:40When you have so powerful tools that engage so large mass of people and they are able to activate so large mass of people, this is the essence of football. This is a team that costs more than 300 million. A year? A year. How much is that percentage-wise, Ronaldo? All this champion has one characteristic, that in one minute they scan you, and they understand if you are the leader or you are not the leader of the project. Then they respect you and they also have some fear about you that sometimes is needed. It's quite a challenge to be the CEO of Jose Mourinho, but I've been not for long. I remember that match.

1:28We got four red cards. so it was quite a let's say a good welcome to the Mourinho style in most companies the CEO is the highest paid employee in the football industry the CEO is very well paid but if you're working with superstars like Ronaldo or Mourinho they're paid more than you so technically that means that your employee the one you're hired is paid more than you how do you manage that synergy?

2:09Guido, for those who haven't followed your career, can you tell us what is it that you do? You know that this is the question that my mom started to make me when I started because we are three brothers. One is an engineer, another one is a lawyer, and me was everything. So it's not an easy question. Now I'm an investor, manager, in sector that goes from media to sports. But my career started totally different. I started as a financial guy. I started his military service in Arthur Andersen auditing. Then I moved in investment banking, M &A, for many years, specializing in some sectors. And then, you know, doing investment, I challenged myself in managing investment.

3:04So doing the two roles, investor and manager. And it was quite a not planned, but easy journey moving from telco, that at the time was the industry that was driving the growth, telco to media, media to sports. And now I'm considered one of the manager, investor in football with more in, let's say, international experience. Financial institutions, investment banking, then telecom and media, and then finally football. What is it about football that you like so much? The adrenaline. That's it. That's why football gives you, if you are not a football player, that are the only one that theoretically has an easily rich life, but at the end it's not easy.

3:59The other one has a crazy life because you don't have any more weekend, you don't have any more summer, you don't have any time. and the only free time that you have normally doesn't overlap with the normal world extra time or vacation or holidays. So the life is crazy. But what we like is that anything can be planned. Adrenaline in the top every day. Then there is the competition. Then you can win and you can lose. But after three days, you have potentially another drama or another success to manage. So it's a never-ending superpressure, things that at the end make all of us addicted of adrenaline.

4:49Interesting, adrenaline. Is there a downside to that? Oh, yes, a lot. Because at the end, you live in that world that has a unique rhythm, and it's difficult to go out from that world because it's a closed environment, a kind of bubble where you live an auto, a self-referential life that stays inside. And at the end, you realize that probably what you get is much less than what you give. How long does it take you to understand that? For me, three years more or less. But I arrive in football at 50, more or less. So I was already pretty much done as a professional with deep knowledge of what I call the normal world.

5:44The ones that are in football when they are young and they don't know what means a normal life. They don't understand and they have a bad surprise when they go out. In the football industry, in the football space, I think the role of a coach, of a manager and the player is pretty clear. But not everyone knows what the CEO, which is your role for major clubs, does. Describe to me like a normal day for you. Okay, no. Let's start from the first because I can argue about the second question. There is no normal day in football. Okay. As I told you, every day is different. The cycle of your job is no more than three, four days.

6:29So in three, four days, you need to decide, execute, because probably tomorrow your team will lose. You will lose some chance. You lose sponsor, and you manage totally another drama that already cleaned the one that you were focused on just today before. but but about the role of CEO the role of CEO is the one that tries to maintain a balance in all the in all the let's say the project of it's not just the team, it's the club because and by the way, the role change between different markets, for example here in UK the manager is deeply involved in the selection of the player. Let's say that he has the one that has the last word in the selection of the player.

7:27This is just in UK. This is a tradition of UK. In other places, the manager is involved in the selection, but it's not the last word. It's not the last say. At the end, there is an investment decision and the investment decision must be approved by the CEO and the ownership because this change a lot of the profile of the investment for the things. But let's say, I want to say in a provocative way that the CEO, with respect to the club, probably is the only one that is not in a conflict of interest with the club. So this is why he's the one deputated on managing the balance. Because if you think, the coach on the manager, at the end he wants to win.

8:14because winning for him means to increase his value, his brand value, his personal brand value. And to win, he can even decide to make crazy buy for player or destroy player or don't use player in which you invest a lot and in this case they destroy the value of your asset. He wants to win, but it's normal that he wants to win. Sport director, more or less the same, passport director is also the one that manages discussion with agents and this is a word where the value that you give to the player is pure pure arbitrary okay that's a very democratic way of saying so I was thinking of another word that starts with B I let the audience think about that it's not an objective value the CEO is the one that has the target to let the value of the club grow without losing financial balance, trying to maintain, let's say, an organic growth and be successful, but maintaining all the target in the right order because if you revert the order and you want just to start to be successful, so you make a disaster.

9:39Exactly, because I feel like the two main targets of a CEO in a football club, and I've seen this with you throughout the years or two, so on one hand you want your team to win, but at the same time you want the company, the club, to be financially healthy. Are these two things, two factors interlinked? Can you be financially very healthy and win everything? Okay, now I don't want to get you bored, but I need to explain to you which is my vision of a football club. That is something that I shared when I went to MIT for my lecture. Imagine a football club, a combination of three engines. Three.

10:20The balance of the football club is the balance of these three engines that work and one feeds the movement of the other, but no one runs at the same speed of the other in the same moment. And the three engines are, one is performance. Obviously, better performance, more the value of the club. That's winning. That's winning. That means increasing the performance. So every year being better than last year. At the moment, you win. But performance are mainly related to two things. Budget or youth sector. More or less, it's make or buy. Or you buy, you need money. Or you produce, play. So the youth sector.

11:04So how you organize the youth sector. Obviously, if you want to go more speed, you believe that budget is the key. But if you want to make an industrial cycle, you need to have a system that produces players. And this is the performance engine. When performance runs well, the value of the club will grow. Interesting, because that's like, in a business, inorganic and organic growth, right? It goes slower through organic growth, but you need the systems and processes in place to do it efficiently. And inorganic growth, it costs you a lot, but it's more guaranteed. There's more guarantee, but you need to work and you need at least three, four years to activate a good sector that will bring some players in the first team.

11:43Then there is the second engine, that is the business engine. Normally, this is based on your capacity to give value to your brand. So there are other brands that want to stay close to your brand as a sponsor. Because you represent something. You represent strong value. Or media. But it's easy. So if you think which is the production of football, we produce emotions for 90 minutes. Try to sell emotions. You need to transform emotions in a product. If you want to sell in the 90 minutes, the ticketing and everything that you do in the stadium. But if you want to sell after that 90 minutes, you need to transform this emotion in a product.

12:31And the only way to transform emotions in a product is to transform in contents. Decline these contents in all the, you know, language and channels and distribute with all the tools. So more you are good in media, more you can continue, even if you don't perform, to engage fans. And, you know, you have an example of that, you know. look Manchester United he grows a lot because he's been super performing for many many years, now it's 10 years that almost is poorly performed and in terms of business it seems it is one of the top 5 in the world in terms of money that he can still raise from sponsorship because he has this business engine that still run much more than the performance now but in this case he continues to maintain the value of the club super high.

13:24And the third engine normally is the one that let's say American investors that approach European football rarely understand. That is a social engine. So a football club is a social platform, not in the digital point of view, in the real point of view. Social platform means that you can take Prince William and the last illegal parking man Birmingham and they don't have anything to share then they have to talk about the Western match and they start to talk because they share values they share the values of being part of a community. Why is that powerful? Because there is anything like football now that has so strong engagement capacity of people so different of different classes of different origin.

14:22Can that be used as a tool of manipulation? Because I see the positive side of it.

14:30Politics. It's a political tool. Obviously, it's a political tool. Can be used to manipulate. More or less, all the political tool can be used to manipulate. But this is also one of the reasons why football is considered, is anymore considered just a sport. And for certain reasons, it's anymore considered also just a business. In fact, there are some investments that are considered unsustainable. Do you think that's bad for football that is right now a business more than a sport? It's not good, not bad. It's football. You need to know what it is. We can talk about religion. It's the same. No. When you have so powerful tools that engage so large mass of people and are able to activate so large mass of people, This is the essence of football.

15:22But by the way, if you think, one of the reasons why now many, let's say, professional investors, equity funds, are approaching football. Some years ago, football was, let's say, the hobby of rich entrepreneurs looking for, you know, satisfy their community or satisfy their ego or satisfy something personal. Investing in football and trying to get success or to use football as a local political tool to obtain something. Now there are professional investors that are investing and you ask why? So why many professional investors approach me saying, Guido, we want that you manage this? And my first question has been why?

16:13And if you understand the essence of the digital economy now, when I started in Telco, all the value was in the transmission network. Now, if you control the access platform, you control all the elements that go in the access. Now it's content. Now it's the extreme of the chain. who controls the most engaging contents and who controls the fan base. So WhatsApp controls a customer base. It doesn't have contents, but the one that said football is the only one that in the same company you have the most engaging contents and probably the most active customer base or fan base call as you want. And you have to transfer this in value.

17:02This is the different challenge. That's exactly what I was thinking. So let's say that I am a potential investor. I'm an investor with unlimited resources and I'm interested in investing in football. Now, where would you advise me to invest, which is the most lucrative? Because football is quite big. You can segment it by markets, Italy or right now in Middle East or within the media side of football, the merchandising or buying a club.

17:33No, I cannot give you a right answer, but I can give you the answer of what you don't have to do in order to fail. Because it's clear that football has some characteristics that are unique now in the market. It's the only consumer business without churn. No one will take your client. no so it's impossible that an arsenal fund will become a manchester united funds you need generation maybe international market you can move some some audience but but but it's the only consumer business without churn the the customer base is already activated the content is the most engaging. So it's another accessory how it's not possible to make tons of money.

18:27Because there are many things that bring people to make always the same mistakes. I can tell you that the most important dramatic enemies of this sector are vanity, ego, and when Top Interpreter approached this sector at the moment they believed that they are there just to win or to satisfy and to give accomplish the fans that sometimes goes against the interest of the club because fans want to change if they can buy 100 players every year and change 100 players every year it's the same but this means go bankrupt in two minutes.

19:21And they discovered something that I discovered when I first approached Rome. I'd been the CEO of Rome. That in your life, you can even patent the new vaccine against the cancer. People will be happy. Someone will know you. Then you stay close to Totti, Ronaldo, Although, like I've been, everyone knows you and looks for you and wants you with them. So if you are not super stable with yourself, you lose the control of yourself. You become super egocentric. Give me an example. Vanity takes, I don't want to make names, but you have plenty of top entrepreneurs that invested in Premier League. and the first three, four years, they wasted so much money to do incredible things that you cannot explain.

20:21And you say, sorry, why these guys that have been so successful, so smart in this sector? Become so dumb now. Exactly. Because this is football. Emotion. It's a stage that needs strong, strong stability and self-balance. Otherwise, you lose control of yourself and you're done. So then the owner needs someone like you, a logically driven CEO to make objective decisions. So let's go back to one of your pillars. So you mentioned business, performance and social. Let's go to the business one, sorry, to the performance one. When you're selecting your players, so you have, as you said, two different routes.

20:59So on one hand, you either build them from the ground up, from the academy or you buy them. Let's look at buying them. so how does it work particularly in AS Roma during your experience there so how do you select a player how do you know that the player is going to be a good fit for the club this is this is one of the most important skill normally of the sport director not to understand if a player is technically strong or not this is easy and you can see you have many tools you watch. The most important thing is to understand if that player can fit well with the project that you have in mind, can fit well with the other team mate that you have in the team.

21:48And how is his capacity to not just adapt himself to the new environment, but to grow in a new environment and help the project to grow. And at the end, you know, I remember But when I started, I was almost no experience. And I always listened to my sport director saying, Guido, trust me, because you don't understand so much about play, but trust me, this is a crack. This will go super well. With this, we will raise the star. Trust. And then after one year, you saw that was not that one. and you start to speak with the player. And when you watch his face, you understand immediately that, you know, this guy doesn't show me to be so bright and so smart, you know.

22:49And then, you know, after a couple of years, I went to every director and said, first of all, now the rules are changed. First of all, if I don't understand something, it's not because I don't understand football, But in any case, if I don't understand something, we don't do so. It's your problem. Let me understand. Otherwise, if I cannot understand now, means that cannot be understood. Second, whatever player we engage, I want to have the final speech with them. Like I do when I hire a marketing guy or not obviously speaking about technical stuff. This is the job of I want to understand which person he is.

23:31I want to talk about him, about his family, about his experience, what he has in mind. Because the real difference in, let's say, 99 % of the player is the end. I tell you in another way, there are just two Messi and Ronaldo. All the other one, you can change. And the difference between Messi and Ronaldo and the rest is in the head. The difference is in the head and also in the talent. But for all the other one, these are the two unique now. The other one can be one more strong than the other. But you can sub, you can change. Don't follow the one that if I don't have just that player, I cannot play.

24:25Guys, we play in 11. You need another 11 that can be replaced. If you don't have this one, we can take another one. So you were exposed to great players, probably the greatest of all time, Cristiano Ronaldo, and some good players, but maybe players that won't be known throughout history. Now, I'm pretty sure that genetics has to do a lot with it and talent, that natural-born talent, but how these people act and behave in their lives pretty much can define how good they can be. So what is the difference in between the lifestyle that a great player leaves and a normal player? I divide the great player in two.

25:10One, the natural talent. So the one that when they were born, I got to put the hands of them and said, OK, you will get a super talent. I had one of these, like Francesco Totti. If you see Totti touching the ball, you understand from the first touch, this is different. The ball, you know, makes different movements. There's a different gravity, there's a different everything.

25:41He kicks the ball without even seeing the pitch, and the ball goes exactly in the foot of the striker in the right. So it's different. And then there are, let's say Ronaldo. There is Ronaldo that has a talent. I mean, don't believe that Ronaldo is just a pure discipline, mental discipline, self-builder player. No, he has a talent. You see that technically speaking, he has a talent. Is it more talent or more hard work with Ronaldo?

26:21Hard work, but there is not so much difference between talent and hard work. He has talent. But hard work is a lot. And between these two players, they start differently because the one that is super talented normally is kind of lazy. He knows that he doesn't need to work hard because he goes in the pitch does something that is so much different. Was Totti like that? At the start, probably yes. But then, because they are smarter, they understand that in the middle of their career, when the age starts to show some problem, that they need to take care more about themselves, and they become more disciplined.

27:10Is it too late then? No. Totti finished at 40. if you talk with Francesco he's still believed to be a strong player to play in first division but I enjoy him because he's a friend Messi now is 37 and I think doesn't have an intention to stop so he's maintaining his body in a good shape Cristiano is the benchmark of all of these because physical shaping If you see with Chris, he's in a better condition than 25 years old. Two months ago, I entered in the locker room. You need to know that more or less every month we control, we check the fat, the mass, the muscle. What's his body fat percentage?

28:11I don't want to tell you because it's a secret, but I can tell you that among the 23, the number one was him. And he's the oldest one. And he's the oldest one. The number one was him. But you know who is the number three? No. Mané, that is 34. Much better than the one that are 22, 23, 24. Because when you are young, you don't understand that you need to maintain and you need to work in a different way. You believe that it's just a matter of playing or showing your skills or showing your talents. No. If you approach in a professional way, this is your structure, your machine. You need to produce this.

28:56But Cristiano, we are talking about a different... I don't consider anymore a football player. He's beyond football. He's 39 now. No, he's 40. 40. He's 40 now. He plays for Al Nasser. How much does Al Nasser pay him? This is another confidential information. Obviously, it's a super great number, but I can tell you... Annually. Annually is a number that doesn't have any comparison in the market, obviously. Yeah. Cristiano's calling. This never happened ever in the show. Thank you. I'm simply the agent of Mourinho. okay there we go casually the agent of Mourinho no no no alright we were on Ronaldo okay so how much does Al Nasser play Ronaldo it was actually pretty convenient that they just called you now I think that was timed I cannot tell the right number there are many speculations in the market is a real in term of absolute value is a very high number.

30:15But I can tell you that probably has the money better spent by Saudis in all this project because the visibility, the credibility that Ronaldo gave to a country that were still under many preconceptual ideas, he gave an incredible help. Even the fact that he moved to Saudi and he lives there, lives, but really lives there with all the family. So he has five kids, the wife. He enjoyed the life and the show because when we talk about Ronaldo, we are talking about the man more visible in this planet. How do you quantify the value that he has brought? We can value it with many, many, many, many parameters.

31:11But I can tell you that after Ibn, now everyone believes that Saudi is a nice place to live. That is anymore the place where women doesn't have any freedom to dress like they want. That there are some incredible places like Red Sea, the new resorts in Red Sea. He went to Alula and now everyone knows that Alula is an incredible place. But apart, you know, giving visibility to all of this is the credibility that he gave to Saudis. When he showed that he has a happy life with all his family, day by day, enjoying a city that before him, everyone just ignored. or the one that knew in particular in the Western country for more problems than opportunities.

32:15So Ronaldo really doesn't give just an incredible push and credibility to the football Saudi project, but he gave lots of credibility and lots of push to the credibility of the entire country. How many more years do you think is going to stay in Saudi? No, theoretically, the contract expired this year. Let's say that we are positive for a renewal of one plus one year. There are two targets that even if every time I talk with him, he doesn't want to confer me, but I know that he has in mind. One is to play the next World Cup with his national team. He's very much attached to rightful, with Portugal and with his country.

33:12And the second, even if he's always said, no, no, I don't care about record, I don't care about record. For me, the 1 ,000 score is something that he looks now close to be achieved. when you're negotiating with someone like Ronaldo which I would assume you you are paying him between 100 and 300 million that's a big gap between both but that's my wild assumption annually but he's already made a lot of money in his career when you're negotiating with negotiating with someone like him what are the most important factors that he's considering is it how much you're going to pay him is it how much time on the pitch is he going to have how much decision-making power?

34:00With Ronaldo, I have a very good relation. First of all, you cannot negotiate or discuss with Ronaldo if he doesn't respect you. For every top player, you need to be respected by them. How can you get that? First of all, you need to avoid to get in love of the player. When you stay in front of Ronaldo, if you are... You need to talk to him like an equal. Yes, we are two businessmen. By the way, after the negotiation, we have two roles. I'm the CEO and he's the captain of the team. When we negotiate, we need to talk about the projects. And the project is a project where we must be online because we need to work together in order to push high the value of the club and the growth of the project.

34:59We are almost looking for the same thing. He needs to understand if the project can sustain his ambitions. And his ambition is always to win because when you stay in this sector, obviously you want to get success in the picture. that doesn't mean to be sure to win. You need to be sure that you are able to compete and then let's see if we win or not. And then the organization, the professionality of the organization. I remember when we entered almost together, we entered some months before the meet. We sit down and we were, I was more shocked than him because I guess here there is anything. So when I say anything means there is no, the canteen to lunch for the meal.

35:52There was not a gym. It was just an area with some machine. So because he arrived before the meal, I said, oh, sorry, Gris, when you arrive, what do you say? I said, we don't. The beauty is that we start really from scratch and we want to become the best team of Middle East. Now, let's understand if we can do. So we sit together and we made a plan. But a plan that was also an infrastructure plan. Okay, let's start from what we need in terms of infrastructure, Jim. Then in terms of organization, so nutrition, physiotherapist. Then now we move for the youth sector. By the way, his son plays in over 15.

36:37So we need an organization. We need the pitches. And we transformed the club in one year and a half. then obviously the performance in the team depends on many other elements by the quality of the team the player, the coach How much does it cost to run that club with all the salaries of every employee including the players annually?

37:07Again, I can give some numbers but this can create a distortion of value because even Saudi changed the value in three years. The first wave of players has been super paid. I would say even overpaid. How much did it cost in 2024? That has been justified for... This is a team that cost more than 300 million a year. How much is that percentage-wise for Ronaldo? Half of it? No. Less than a half. How do the other players see this? Fair? Unfair? No. No, no, no. Ronaldo is beyond football. Ronaldo, to work with Ronaldo is good because when you stay on the pitch and in the locker room, he's an example for everyone, for the young, for everyone.

38:05If someone starts to make some discussion like, why Mino and Ronaldo? yes better that you kick them off because it means that it's stupid because we are not we are not comparing this but trust me to have Ronaldo in a locker room make the life of coach sport director and CEO super easy these are all the positive sides of bringing someone like him or maybe there's not someone like him what are the negative sides to Ronaldo because there's a negative side to everyone The negative side is that when you have Ronaldo in a team, when you move a team with Ronaldo, it's like to bring and put in a bus all together, Madonna, Ariana, Beyonce, and whoever.

38:58Sounds fun. No. It's super complicated. Super complicated. Ego? No, no, no. Logistics. Logistics. Everything. So everything became much more difficult, much more difficult. The request of government when we go in away matches, everyone wants to meet Ronaldo, want to have access to the team, and then you need to manage the team as a team. The team must be focused because tomorrow we need to play a match, and people don't care about the match. So maintaining the concentration and the focus of the team for what the team has to do, including Ronaldo as the captain, is very difficult. And how do you manage the obedience and hierarchy within the club?

39:49Because in most companies, the CEO is the highest paid employee. In the football industry, the CEO is very well paid. But if you're working with superstars like Ronaldo or Mourinho, they're paid more than you. So technically that means that your employee, the one you hired, is paid more than you. How do you manage that synergy? I told you, they need to respect you. I tell you one secret that I learned when I started this business. Normally, you start a season, you enter in a locker room as the CEO. You have no more than five minutes. because in five minutes all these kids, players, you talk and they don't answer you.

40:37But all these champions have one characteristic that in one minute they scan you and they understand if you are the leader or you are not the leader of the project. And if they believe that you are not the leader of the project, the worst thing is that they don't tell you. just that they start to ignore and to be totally far from whatever you say. If they understand that you are the leader and this is something that they smell, then they respect you and they also have some fear about you that sometimes it's needed to be respected by that guy. At the end, you are managing a group of men, strange men, because you don't have the, let's say, normal salary-gerarchic tool because I'm the most paid.

41:32No, because normally you are the lowest paid, but you are the one that has the power. They need to respect you when you say yes or not, but you need to be, you know, strict on yes or not. Don't be afraid. The only mistake that you have to do is to show that you are a fan of them. No, you don't have to accomplish them or you don't have to be close to them because being close to them, you became more visible or your ego is more satisfied because stay with them. You are in social media because the one that everyone wants. There are some ones that make this mistake. They smell. They don't respect you in one minute and you're done.

42:22So I never had problem in managing a player. I don't think that they never had any doubt that I was the leader of the project. But I always respect and involve the player in every single decision in which they had a consequence. Even during COVID, I remember, I made the kind of business review with my player in order to understand how to manage that strange situation in order to train, stay in the training facility. At the end, the decision was mine. I engaged the top one, obviously the more expert one, but it was fun to have in a meeting room a player like Jago Golarov, a Mkhitaryan top expert player.

43:14I gave I put on the table the point that was on the discussion, I raised all their opinion, I made the synthesis I took the decision, then from that moment I'm the CEO, you are the player let's execute the plan, but I'll update you about the plan, this is my style with the player and trust me they are super happy when they feel that they are not just considered horses that they have to run fast, score, go in a beautiful car and engage beautiful girls. But they are also, you know, someone that can be part of the project. Not all, but many, yes.

44:02Let's talk about the Saudi project, the Saudi vision. So as the CEO of Al Nasser, you were responsible for A. defining and designing that strategy and B. also implementing it to an extent. What is the reason behind this goal, this move? They're investing heavily in football. They are investing heavily in all the country. But they are probably the essence of all the investment in sports and not just football because they are investing heavily in boxing, heavily in many things, it's because they are transforming the society. And they are creating a new ecosystem. When you see they are building Neom, another entire city like Kidea, like Diriya, like Red Sea, they understood something that probably it's easy to understand.

45:03if you want to consolidate a community to an ecosystem you need a strong tool of engagement the strong tool of engagement normally are two one is not my job that is religion the second is football is sport and football so investing in football if you want to transform a society and driving through football a new community to be consolidated to a new ecosystem through different rules is the most smart way, but you need to know how to do. And you need to respect time. I think sometimes there's a gap in between vision and what's happening in reality. From the outside, particularly here in England, we hear that in Saudi a lot of things are happening, cross-sector, including football.

45:53But then I've heard from many people that live there that things are happening at a much, much slower pace and that the results are not arriving yet? Yes, I heard many, many things. Lots of things are happening. Lots of things are in the plan. The reality is that for the one that oversell and for the one that overcriticize, the common ground is that they forgot the time. all process of change is a natural time and you cannot squeeze the time with money it's like to say that for having a baby you need nine months but if you give more money to the doctor and the nurse you're reducing five I think in the future we may be able to accomplish that no, it's always nine so they want to transform probably is a mistake the one that say something that can be done in five years, we will do in two years.

47:02And this is another mistake, the one that want to attack and say, look guys, what they did in two years, that they need five years. So let's make a step back and see from high. They really want to transform the society. don't consider you know the let's say over sale message or over criticize so let's look what's happening and it's happening a lot of things where they arrive I don't know but they arrive somewhere different from where they are now the society is changing the mentality is changing but if something needs one generation or two generations I guess you need to wait one generation and two generations.

47:50Don't believe that if you overcharge this generation of investment, money, pressure, you squeeze the time. No. It's a natural historical cycle that must happen. Interesting. Is this something they, the Saudis, understand? Or they want a disgeneration? This is one of my discussions many times. Many understand, many not. But this is, you know, So this is a mentality. And they want people like you to do it yesterday. Normally they engage people like me because they put on the, let's say on the grill too much meat, five layers. And then sometimes someone asks you why the layer on top is not cooked.

48:38So you enlarge the barbecue, that one normally cannot be cooked. So we are right at the end. We try to make it sustainable. Let's talk about Jose Mourinho. For many, he's probably one of the greatest coaches. And I've had the pleasure of going to a match, one of his first matches where you invited me to see him. And already in one of his first matches, he was very charismatic because the referee wasn't, let's say, performing in the way that he would expect. And he just sabotaged the whole match. he wanted for the match to be cancelled even. And that's when I think I learned that if they give the red card to more than a number of players, the match is cancelled and he wanted to get that.

49:26So that for me was like a clear statement that this coach just arrived to AS Roma and he has his own agenda. He has a very strong personality. Can you describe Jose Mourinho with three words?

49:41Super smart.

49:47skilled probably the third word I cannot say now let's see no no it's not a matter of mine but I can tell you that privately is super funny really? privately it's quite a challenge to be the CEO of Jose Mourinho But I've been not for long. But I remember that match. We got four red cards. So it was quite a, let's say, a good welcome to the Mourinho style. What's the crazy story? I have a good relation with him. Probably I have a good relation with him because I didn't work as a CEO of him so much. I just engaged him and we worked together. But we listened a lot. What's the craziest story that you have with him?

50:47What I remember is that when I decided to leave Roma, I engaged him and we worked together six months, more or less, and then he came to me saying, Widow, there were just two alpha men in this club. now one is leaving I say good for you good for you that's why we can maintain a decent relation between me and you because obviously for a CEO you know managing a coach that has this let's say conflictual relation with the referee world, with the league world, with everything is being more than a fireman in the California fires. But the guy is very smart, and he's skilled smart. And when we are in a private dinner, very funny, very funny.

51:56I have many things, but I cannot repeat because I'm not, cannot be, no, cannot be. No, no, no. We'll leave it there. Better for the reciprocal reputation to not repeat. There are various studies that point out that over 50 % of players, even players that have these outrageous salaries, once they retire from football, many of them face bankruptcy. How can you face bankruptcy if you make that kind of money? And how can you face it so quickly? Where do they spend their money? I read three, four years ago the last statistic of FIFA. that almost 75 % of the football player, professional football player, after five years after their retirement, they don't have any money more.

52:54In fact, FIFA started a program in order to maintain this player engaged in a way or another. But I try to imagine you that more or less at the age of 14, 15, you start to be out of your home with an environment that push you to believe that you are more or less already a superstar or close to being a superstar. At 16, 17, you start to earn like a normal manager takes as a salary, more than your father. No one teach you what means managing that money. No one teach you what means living a normal life. You are more or less a package that the club move everywhere, so you don't know even how to buy a ticket to fly.

53:59then you stay surrounded by people that push you to believe that you are something close to god that you can have whatever you don't know even the real value of this glass so if i go and they oh look this beautiful glass it cost uh one thousand pound you believe that is one thousand pound because for you there's anything as the real value of money but in fact you see that normally their targets are always the same and not so much a sophisticated target because target of buying. When you are just interested in watching cards or so you want to show your money, your misperceived success in this way.

54:50And then you have the problem of having a court of people that support that. around you that support that. And when there are someone that try to help him in looking another way, this for them is a problem. The one more intelligent few ones, they start to have a different approach. I'm a professor, I'm teaching in the university and I had three, four players that asked me to start a program, customize for them in order to be graduated in management, to understand more, to prepare the future. Normally they don't do. Many of them are scared because they know that if you ask them to speak in a normal convivium, they don't have the element.

55:45They are scared. They become shy. And they prefer to stay and to do something that is easy, communicating through socials, that at the end is the most easy, cold, and unpersonal way to communicate. And when you stop, most of them, they get in depression. Most of them that are so much addicted to the adrenaline of the match, they look this adrenaline somewhere else. This is why they go, many of them, they go betting and gambling because it's the adrenaline. It's not because they believe that they win. No one wins. They need that moment of adrenaline shock when they play crazy money and then they lose.

56:39But the things that everyone suffers, And believe me, from the top one, the top, top, top, to the lowest, is that in a moment, all these beautiful environment disappear. When did you retire? It's like turn off the light and you are anymore anyone. The way that I see this is that football gives them for a long period of their lives identity, purpose and money. But at the same time, it builds a personality for them. And then when they retire, that personality dies and nobody teaches you how to die. So what can the clubs do in that moment to prepare them for this? The club can do something because the club needs many players in Patillo, the one that gave their brand to the club to the club in order.

58:03means that the player must be ready. It's a shock. It's like that tomorrow finishes your career and I tell you, Alberto, you're any more Alberto. You are any more Alberto. And 80, 90 % of the people that you are around him, they don't recognize you anymore. If you are not ready to that moment to understand that, no, I'm Alberto in a different way. And by the way, this 90 % of the people probably I didn't need and I need other people. So I want to, I have some idea about doing something else in the future. Many of them go crazy and they start to lose themselves. And obviously it's so easy when you lose yourself to lose the money.

59:00in particular if you are not educated in how managing the money. Normally, if you have a good family, you can do something, but it's not easy. It's a crazy world that immediately disappears in one day. Because from the outside, what we see, the people that are not in the industry, in the sport, we see that they have an easy life. since they're very young, they start earning a lot of money. And then you don't necessarily need to be one of the top players to earn a lot of money. You can be in a tier two club or even tier three, and you're going to be earning more money than an engineer in his entire career.

59:41And they have these beautiful cars, beautiful partners, beautiful women. But I guess this is one of the things that nobody really talks about because the players, once they retire, they don't go out and talk about how depressed they are. We only see them in their shiny moments, in their successful definition of success, sports success moments. I can tell you that is even not true because we made some session with former players to our kids. But it's like that someone comes to you when you are in your prime, at your top, and they tell you, you know what means goes on the dark side of your life?

1:00:22You don't listen because you are in your prime. So you are not interested. And you are in a moment, who cares? These guys are young. When you are 18 years old, you have that mind. You don't want to listen to people that talk to you about what means to be sick, what means to be older. Because this is normal. But you should be educated. and football system is not like American sport where the education of the youth sector up in college, for example, that in a way or another give you an education. So give you some elements of understanding how to invest your money, how to, even if you are an athlete that is much more focused on sports than on study, but in a way or another you are in an environment that is an academic environment or a college environment.

1:01:24Football is coming from, so it brings you from the street to the club, to the club on the stage, from the stage to the start, but the last experience that you had of a normal life was on the street when you were 80 years old. So it's at the players, the system of the players, the agent, that the agent always sometimes doesn't help, that they need to give all this education information. Now, many of them improved a lot. Families helped a lot. Because they become parents very young. Parents very young, exactly, because getting out from their family so young, then they are looking for something stable much earlier than a normal guy.

1:02:21They have the money to finance the idea of having a family that I think is to find the right girl, but this is a common problem with all the men, not just for football.

1:02:40But you need to know the environment, but I can tell you that now many youngest players are much more evoluted than some years ago. Then I know also other examples of players that are super smart, super intelligent they know exactly what they can do. Champions, not just they prepare very well their post-career. There are others that are just crazy horses that are super good in running very fast, in scoring, but are crazy horses. I was reading that one of the key changes in the last years in football was how many matches the player plays, which as an entrepreneur myself, it does make sense and I can understand the sentiment behind it because the players every year are becoming more and more expensive.

1:03:34So you need to amortize that cost. So if they were playing 40 matches a season, now they're playing 60. Now, from a football quality perspective, if they're playing 60 matches, are they just going to be 75? Or 75. I can tell you. Is that going to dilute the quality of their football? No, these are different topics. First of all, the club is the one that pay the player. I would say, sorry if I became more serious, the player doesn't play just for the clubs. but the clubs is the only one that pay and take the risk so there are even many matches that are done for national team there are many tournaments done by national team there is a discussion is all these tournaments are needed or not and by the way the revenue for that matches are not going to the club or not substantially are not going to the club but if the but the player is paid by the club if the player gets injured it's the club that's of for the damage of the play injured.

1:04:41But now, you know, there are many actors in this, let's say circus, that have different role, but different requirement. There is the UEFA for the European club or the other federation for the other continental club. There is FIFA that has some ask. Then the clubs that obviously need to compete for the competition. The competition, there is the local, the domestic competition, the continental competition that is not regulated by the club or is regulated by, in this case, UEFA. If UEFA decide that the European competition is 64 matches or 48 matches, don't believe that the club is just to enlarge the base of participants.

1:05:34But in the end, the top club and needs to play more. So it's a difficult discussion. Obviously, now the player needs to do much more. Athletically-wise, they need to be more stronger. Risky-wise, there is much more to be injured. I think that we already raised the limit. There is no space in the calendar are to even manage an exceptional case, like you have to delay the match or some match when you need to recover. I think that the system must be rethinking because we are close to the breaking point. Interesting. What about increasing the number of players in the club? So if there's 22, maybe there could be 30, so you have more matches.

1:06:30it's already difficult to manage 25 players don't ask to put 50 by the way in this case it's anymore a team, you have two teams you have two teams that play with the same so no we need to rethink all the system and to put together the different actors FIFA, UEFA domestic league and understanding how they have to split the pie of the business in a more harmonic way. This is the only way. I've always wanted to know if there's a dark side to football. Are referees, can they be bought? Have they been bought? No, I don't believe that. I don't believe that. A referee are humans. There are someone strong, someone less strong, someone that feels the environmental pressure, someone don't, but at the top level, and particularly in the, let's say, in the environment that I manage, no, they cannot be bought.

1:07:39And it's a matter of reputation for everyone. Thank you. And I know that there are many, many, many arguments that someone use, in particular in Spain, about the system. are humans. Someone makes mistakes, but the system works.

1:08:06Thank you. This has been incredibly revealing when it comes to football in particular. Now I want to ask you, I want to get deeper with you. I want to ask you some personal questions because from the outside, one might perceive you as a very successful person. If transitioned successfully from one industry to another. And sometimes pivoting, the arts of pivoting, is probably one of the hardest things that one can do. In the case of, for example, even the football players, right? That's probably the most complex things that they would ever face in their lives. But that's not something that just happens with football players.

1:08:38It happens to anyone. We probably need to reinvent ourselves every 10 years at a personal and sometimes also if we're courageous enough at a professional level. So I want to know what's the greatest lesson that you've learned in your career. I would say that I never think about myself in the future, but I always follow my curiosity. And I never had any problem in challenging myself and taking some risk. So if I believe that I can start something that can have success in some sector, I try. I never block myself say no it's impossible it's difficult you need money you need introduction no I believe and I try I try and looking back I said that why I try because I was curious so I you know in your life or you have a special talent that drive your passion.

1:09:52These are the real minority, lucky people, for example. My brother born believing that he must be an engineer. He would give him some slap in his face during his life, but he was so much convinced because he has the passion of building this. I didn't have this conviction, but I was super curious of understanding the world of testing my capacity to do in different sectors something with my approach, and I try. So this is how I move from sector to sector because in some phase of my different position and careers, I say, okay, but this can be done in this sector in a different way based on my experience.

1:10:44I propose, I convince people, I try, I invest myself, sometimes I invest also my money, and I don't want to say ever, but almost ever, I show results. And I'm still always open to believe that if I see something new in which I believe that I can do something, I will try. Personally, I invest also in other sectors. and just because I was curious to understand and if I can give an help or not or give an added value. I'm a testament to what you're saying about your personality because I haven't disclosed this in this episode but we'll probably leave it in the description of the episode so you are one of the early investors and shareholders that believed in my project, in my company, in my idea in the early stages.

1:11:44And I remember so vividly, it was in the very beginning of COVID when we had a call together and we presented you the plan. We had a few other investors, but you were the first one that we were going to bring at a larger scale in the group. I remember finishing the plan and then we said, okay, we'll leave you some time to think about it and then we can reconvene, maybe have some questions. And then you said, no, I have my answer. Do you want it now? every other investor that we had, usually they come back with a thousand other questions. But you had it so clear. And you've always had such a clear vision of what you wanted and what you didn't want and what you wanted to try.

1:12:20And I found that very courageous and fearless mentality very admirable. Now, as I was mentioning earlier, from the outside, when you look at your CV, when someone looks at your CV and your accomplishments, one might think you didn't struggle because you've successfully transitioned from one place to another and everything was working out for you. Now, what has been the hardest moment in your journey? No, no, I struggle. I struggle. I struggle a lot. And trust me, every time you struggle, the only rule that I follow is never give up. there is always a solution for whatever problem I have in mind trust me, I'm convinced now I test myself it's 30 years that I'm on the business there were so many situations in which even me not just the people around me say okay now it's done there is any more solution every time there is a solution if you raise up every time you fell down at the end, the other one stays down and you are the only one that raises up and you can continue to work.

1:13:33You need to be consistent and prepare to be consistent. But I give you one example of one of my business, probably the only one that closed at the end bed. And In this way, I learned probably the best lesson. In 28, I found a TV company in Italy after another project that was successful in Scandinavia. More or less was the moment in which there was the passage, the switch off between the analogical and the digital system in the terrestrial signal. That is - Was Girovastis? is 2008. I created Dalia TV in Italy. Dalia TV was the second digital terrestrial platform, an interactive platform on digital terrestrial TV platform.

1:14:31Let's say that the next step has been OTT, what you call. But, you know, before there was the typical terrestrial. It was a good project. And by the way, in that project, I have probably the best shareholder that I ever had in my life. Because the shareholders of this project were Telecom Italia, that in Italy is the incumbent. J.B. Morgan, through a subsidiary of J.B. Morgan. And the third one was a Swedish investor that I don't know if you know, is Wallen Perfomili.

1:15:07the historical investor, the owner of Ericsson, Electrolux, Scandia, one of the most rich family. By the way, his grandfather is the one that invented the Nobel Prize, just for you to finance the Nobel Prize. So I never had... And then he was a Nobel Prize winner, right? I never had a bunch of strong shareholders like this. We started, we had great success. At the moment, I remember that was the moment in which in Italy, the prime minister was the head of our competitors. So let's say that it's been decided to don't go moreover, but we had great success. And we decide to, and they decide to shut down the business.

1:15:59And for me, it was a shock because it was the first time in which immediately I said, guys, it's impossible. Now we have commitment with many people, lots of things. And I remember there were two main CEOs. One was me and another one that in the moment of this decision, it just said shout out to everyone and disappeared. But when you have a company that's shut down with employees, you cannot say shower when you have the responsibility. So you need to be strong and dedicated, not just when you grow, but also when you close. How old are you? To manage, I was at the moment 30, no, 42. Before that you didn't fail?

1:16:53No. So what is your relationship with failure? I tell you, failure is the most educative moment of your life, but you need to know how to do. Now, I don't want to, again, start another lesson, but I teach entrepreneurship in the university. The first two weeks are about ethics and failure because it's not a problem to fail. is a problem to fail without ethics. Can you give me an example? When you do a business, if you are an entrepreneur, your best target is to have more people that believe in you and your idea and your project. And it means that they give you credit, financial credit, intellectual credit, goods, whatever.

1:17:51Guys, this guy, I need to be respected when you fail. That doesn't mean that you can give back what they gave you, but you need to do whatever in order to save your investment. You cannot make them happy, obviously, you're failing. But you never give the feeling that they have been disrespected. first of all you protect first the employees but second the interest of the people that give trust on your own this is something that stays and I remember after that closing I was, I don't want to say depressed but you know I felt inside the responsibility of affiliate, but by the way it was even not mine because it was the shareholder at a certain moment said that we don't want to hurt the established power, let's shut down and they left.

1:18:53But I was the captain of the boat so I cannot leave just the boat to say, okay, it's done. Everyone can save by themselves. And I managed this for one year and a half, obviously, without money, obviously, but trying to, and taking all the risk because legal claim, but But explain that everything was done in the right way and even in the closing, everything will be done in the right way. And apart, you know, the lesson that I learned that is super precious for the rest of your investment in order to avoid to be in the same situation, I understood with time that And probably the most important element of my reputation in the market came exactly for that.

1:19:48Because when you are considered a trusted people, that means someone that you want to have close with you, not when everything goes well, it's easy. When everything goes well, you can have everyone. But you need to understand which one you want close to you when problems start to game. This is where you test your partner, your investor. Because how people know how to manage, how he's stable, how he's control his emotion, how he's consistent. This is the best lesson. So it's not true that I always went super easy in my life. No, I can tell you I fight a lot. but probably the most fruitful experience has been the worst because it's been managed in a way that confirmed me what I told you.

1:20:44Fail is not a problem if you do in an ethical way. So this is something that you always have to be managed. And then you have to decide who you want to be. First of all, as a man, then as an entrepreneur. If you want to do it like this, you need to have your ethical principle always in mind when you do business, whatever you do. I agree with you. I fundamentally agree with you. I also believe that entrepreneurship is not for everyone because precisely the situation, like the one you're describing, is something that can really impact emotionally some people more than others. And if you're not cut out to understand that when you venture into something, which is something from scratch, you're building something from scratch, there is a level of risk.

1:21:34And with that level of risk, failure, it's a possibility. And failure can have several different phases or definitions. You lose your reputation with your shareholders or in the market. And that's normal. But also on the other end of failure, there is so much power. There's so much strength because I'm a firm believer that you don't believe anything from success. And you believe absolutely, you learn absolutely everything. You don't learn anything from success. You learn absolutely everything from your failures. And a lot of people believe that they need to become very successful always in the very first business or at an early stage.

1:22:12And I believe that there's a lot of luck that entails that. and I've had the pleasure of interviewing great entrepreneurs cross-sector in this industry. And there's been a clear correlation in how quickly they became good entrepreneurs by failing very quickly, but also obviously failing ethically very quickly. But ultimately, the one common denominator that made all of these people successful in different sectors, in different industries, is that they didn't quit. You play with the idea of quitting. Like some days everything was absolutely wrong and every fiber of your being, even your friends and your family.

1:22:47Like some people around there tell you maybe you're wasting your time, you should be doing something else, but you don't quit. You people do adapt, you change, you keep going. As you said, you keep standing up. In your journey, how many times did your head tell you to quit?

1:23:06In the early years, many times. But when you are tired, when you start a new business or a new initiative, you start something new. Even when you move from a sector to another sector or from an environment to another environment. Now I'm well established in Middle East, but this was my idea to move from, let's say, Europe to Middle East and obviously when you start something new

1:23:39you struggle, no? The more you have to lose, more these questions come in your mind because you say, guys, why I don't enjoy what I already have and why I need to take another risk. But this isn't the soul of the entrepreneur. This is where you understand that you are an entrepreneur. If you're an entrepreneur, you never give up. It's impossible because you challenge yourself every day. This is also why an entrepreneur can never win. You postpone the goal, the target to another thing. Because the real competitor of an entrepreneur is himself. and even when you achieve a target that is something that you want to show to yourself that can be done better.

1:24:37So if you look in this way, then the entrepreneur has a destiny of not being really satisfied. But this is good. This is good. For sure, you never get bored. You will have always an interesting life. You will be accused by everyone that you never have the right time for them. But on the other time, you will have a lot of people around you that say, oh, you need to change your life. You need to rest. But why don't you think about this and say, sorry, if I need to rest, why you propose me something new? Because they recognize that you have this soul of creating, investing. And by the way, an entrepreneur doesn't do this for money.

1:25:27money probably is an indicator of it's not a success it's one indicator maybe it's the most important of the success I do this because the test of building something we need to see a project that you build growing, you need to say that you have more employees you need to see the Christmas dinner every year became larger and then this is a and this is a meter of success you yes the money is for you to help to have a better life to maintain but if you start to do this for money maybe you are a trader but you are not an entrepreneur are you happy with what you've accomplished in your life is this what you wanted for your life

1:26:29Yes, more or less I'm happy because I always did what I was curious to do. Then if you ask me, do you want to do something different, something more? Maybe, yes, but I cannot say that I'm unhappy for what I did. By the way, I have just this life, so I know that I cannot do more. But it depends what you're looking for. I don't believe that I'm a strong ego. Vanity is not my characteristic. So, yes, people know me, but I never look for being visible or being famous in that way. I don't have socials. I try to don't expose so much about myself, even if I'm overexposed because of football.

1:27:32I still feel to have energy to things, to start something new somewhere that probably now I don't know. but if it triggers me in the mind in a certain moment that can be done this in one part of the world, I still feel that I have this energy to start something new, to try to start something new. So I'm happy because I feel this energy. I still don't consider me, you know, seated on what I am now. If you can give one advice to the younger version of yourself, if we could go back 30 years in time, what would you advise yourself? Do everything that allows you to be free. Don't do things for money.

1:28:35Don't do things for show. So I consider success, the real success, to be free. How would you define freedom? To be free to choose. Always to be free to choose what is better for you, for your family, to be free to choose what you like to do or to stop to do something that doesn't like you. to be free even to to say no to people that offer you lots of money for something you don't believe success is to be free it's not to be rich according to your definition of success would you say you're successful?

1:29:24yes I believe that I'm free when all is said and done and your life is over what do you want your legacy to be?

1:29:39Okay, I have... The answer is the same, but with different angles. I like to leave something of myself in other people. This is coming from my let's say professor role. I like to believe that people that work with me or people that grows with me, like my son, can have their career applying my principle. So building something. But my legacy is to see that the company that I founded now is growing, continue to grow without changing the soul of the company. They can do other things, other products, other sectors, but the soul must be the same. And the people that work with me continue to end their success in doing something with the approach that I pass to them.

1:30:54And then I don't know. I still, this is something, this is my problem. I don't see, I don't understand when I can stop. But I know that I have to stop somewhere. But let's say that, you know, even me, I have the engine that continues to run. So sometimes I want to rest. I want to enjoy more what I had. I believe that I do, but then I realize that I really don't do because I'm always in the mind to do something more. I never get personal in these conversations, but I know you. And it's a bit inevitable for me to avoid that. I think you should enjoy your life, and I think you should enjoy what you have accomplished.

1:31:43I think you should enjoy your son. I think life is finite. I think sometimes we lose perception of time, but time will catch up. And that's what I would love for you as a friend. Now, Guido, you have a very interesting and multilayered complex life. And I thank you today for sharing it with me. I believe now, talking about football, football represents many aspects of life. It's not just sports. It's unity, it's purpose, it's identity. It's also business. For many, it's almost like a religion. I don't think there's any other industry That can embody all of these different traits I thank you for all the contributions That you have done to the sport But also to society And I thank you on behalf of all the fans That don't get to thank you Because they're thanking mainly Either the players or the managers So thank you on behalf of everyone Thanks, thanks.

1:32:48I don't believe that fans didn't. I close with this. When I start to be the CEO of Roma, after two weeks, I executed a decision that was already taken to Don Renew one of the superstars of the club. That was Daniele De Rossi, probably. After two days, I had 7 ,000 people down at my office trying to kill me. Really, physically. I'd been under protection from the police for four months. And this was my start. So I tried to imagine which was the relation and the perception. But then I continued to manage the club, like I said, in full transparency, explaining that my road was different by the rule of funds.

1:33:40Both of us want to have the success of the club, but they have funds and they have to do the funds. I'm the CEO and I have to do the CEO. Then COVID arrived and we reached to really got in trouble, financial trouble, deep financial trouble. It was a listed company. I continued to do my job. I found a new owner. He bought three years of really high-pressure life in which I didn't really take care about the relationship. I just did my job like I know. When I closed my mandate, my assistant called me and there was a delegation of the Curva Sud funds. I don't know if you know what that Curva Sud funds.

1:34:34Curva Sudfans is the top hardcore hot part of the Roman Tifo and normally are not the most recommended people that you can deal with I didn't know and was a delegation more or less was the head of the 7 ,000 people that tried to kill me at the time that gave me a present I was a crest of Roma with a note in which basically they thank you, me. And I said, sorry, I'm surprised. And they told me, Mr. Fienga, probably we never agree on some decision that you took, but we understood what you did and we respect you. So now when I go in Roma and people recognize me, they still shake my hands and this is not common life.

1:35:30So don't believe that fans doesn't understand or people don't understand. You need to be consistent. You need to do your job to explain what you're doing. And then if you do well, instead of following bypass or easy solution or accomplish someone or believe to be smarter and then in the end are just more stupid or not transparent, people understand. I have one last question. In those three years of hard work and intensity, where you're giving your everything to your career, do you remember in those three years what were the most important things that happened to your son?

1:36:19Yes. But I have also a sense of... If you're honest with yourself. No, yes. If you ask me about the rest, wife or others, brothers, I can tell you no. Okay. The son, probably yes, but I understood also one thing, that he suffered the fact that two things. One, that the father was overexposed. So in his school, people were talking about the club and the father like something that they can argue. And they said, no, this is my father. Sorry. And second, that the father was not available the weekend to stay with him because we need to follow the football match. and the result of this is that he doesn't like football.

1:37:27He simply doesn't like football. If you ask him to come and watch the match, he'll say, I don't like football. Try to imagine a kid in which in the father's house you can find Totti, Mourinho, Cristiano. For them, yes, normal guest, that cam talks about everything but doesn't represent anything. Do you regret anything? About this, probably...

1:38:05I don't know what you can do different, but football is... This is the prize that you pay. When I said it's a crazy life, probably I was not looking for this roller because I was one of the shareholders, but the other shareholders in a moment of trouble, the one from Boston, they asked me to take care about Aroma for three months to reorganize and sell, and these three months began for years because COVID, because everything. I underestimated probably the charge of things, and then I worked as I was. But on the other side, I can tell you now he's 18. He's close to go to university. I think that he knows one thing, that if you want to achieve something, you need to work hard.

1:39:02This is not... I did all my best to not let him feel the son of his father. You need to find this way. I moved from Rome after my degree exactly for that because I understand that that was, you know, I don't want to say bad or good, but too much strange position to be the son of the CEO of the club in Rome that is something that is more than a religion. And then he went to the British School of Dubai to do math with the Indians, to prove himself in an environment when he is like the others. And I hope that he just understood that whatever he wants to do to have success, he needs to work hard and

1:40:10try to follow the example of the father that for me should be the best satisfaction then I don't have a son that plays football, sometimes better at least he can diglinate a verb in the speech so he's not interested in a watch, I don't know a car I don't enter in a girl but But let's see. Guido, thank you for all your honesty. This has been very revealing at so many different layers. I really appreciate that. Thank you. Thanks.