Are Xi and Putin still ‘best friends’? – The Latest

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:11It's almost Xi trying to show he can meet the world's top leaders whenever he likes. Everyone sort of wants a piece of him. There's no doubt that Beijing is really reveling in this now that China is having this moment on the sort of diplomatic stage. China definitely has the upper hand on this occasion. And I think both parties know that. Xi knows that. Putin knows that. Xi Jinping has welcomed Vladimir Putin to Beijing just days after hosting Donald Trump. But with an increasing power imbalance between the pair, has the relationship between Russia and China changed? From The Guardian's Today in Focus, this is The Latest with me, Lucy Hough.

0:48I'm joined by Devika Batt, The Guardian's Deputy Head of International News. Thanks for joining us, Devika. So this morning, we've been seeing all these scenes of pomp and pageantry in Beijing as Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, has travelled to China for, I think, the 25th time. And he and Xi Jinping have had more than 40 meetings in the past. We'll talk about the optics of this meeting, because it's in the exact same location that Donald Trump was in just a few days ago. Yeah, thanks for having me, Lucy. Yes. As you say, Trump was there just last week and this visit has come hot off the heels of that.

1:22Probably much to Trump's chagrin, I'd suspect. And yes, the optics and the theatre of it feels very, very similar. So, you know, there's been the honour guard and a gun salute, which Trump got to, cheering children, you know, waving, in this case, Russian and Chinese flags, a marching band. And, you know, alongside the kind of formal talks and the sort of handshakes, there's going to be background discussions behind the scenes, which, again, we sort of saw with the Trump visit, you know, and the optics will be watched especially closely for this sort of compare and contrast opportunity it gives us.

1:57But the relationships are very different. So let's talk about that, because, I mean, these are two strong men who've been seen as being very much allies on the global stage. I think Xi Jinping has described Putin as his best and most intimate friend, slightly disquietingly. But has that shifted in recent years, do you think? And perhaps this year, given how much turmoil we're seeing and in light of course of Russia's invasion of Ukraine? Yes, I think so. So, yeah, it's absolutely the case that unlike Trump and Xi, this is a kind of really historic relationship that goes back for years and years and they share a lot in common.

2:32They're both sort of autocratic strongmen who've managed to maintain power for years and years. Again, you know, one suspects Trump might look on on that quite jealously. And so there's a pre-existing relationship here. And this trip feels a lot more about, from the Chinese point of view anyway, working out how to sort of leverage that relationship in a kind of useful way. Now that China is having this moment on the diplomatic stage, that it's long kind of sought. It's long wanted to be seen as the sort of seat, the center of power of global diplomacy in a way it's not really had the opportunity to before.

3:06And I think, you know, there's a big sense now that although there is this relationship with Russia, China will want to really think about how it uses that to its advantage. The fact that the two visits come so closely together, it's almost Xi trying to show he can meet the world's top leaders whenever he likes. Everyone sort of wants a piece of him. Yeah, and striking to see the optics of all this pomp and pageantry and this display of military and economic heft from China. Also striking that Xi Jinping has said this quote that the world risks regressing into the law of the jungle. I mean, striking that China would be advocating the rules-based international order and kind of seeming a bit like the adult in the room.

3:49Yes. And I think, you know, there's no doubt that Beijing is really reveling in this moment. it sort of gets to say that because of the war in Iran and because of the war in Ukraine, it gets to sort of relish this role that it can kind of seek to play as a sort of global player in diplomacy. There's been no sort of direct mention of the US. Xi has sort of warned of unilateral and hegemonic countercurrents running rampant in the international system. And he also sort of said, as you say, the world faces the danger of reverting to the law of the jungle. And Putin, interestingly, has kind of made a big thing of Russian and Chinese cooperation on the world stage.

4:23And so that that's one of the key stabilizing factors in the world, which again, feels ironic, given the war in Ukraine. But you know, some might say that we're in a position where the US's actions have sort of enabled both of them to say this, not with a straight face, because it still seems ridiculous. But when the US is also now a volatile player, it has sort of enabled she to position himself in this kind of way. Yeah, and perhaps as the sort of leading strongman superpower of this strange new world that we're living in. But in terms of the dynamic between these two men, Putin and Xi, meeting today, there's a sense that they've previously met as equals, but that on this occasion, things are very much working in China's favour.

5:06They're signing a number of deals on tech and trade, particularly this gas pipeline right. But there's suggestions that these are deals that are very much being signed on Chinese terms. Is that fair to say? Yes, very much so. So China definitely has the upper hand on this occasion in a way it may not have done in the past. And I think both parties know that. She knows that. Putin knows that. And you can sort of see it on how the trip has played out. So even in the language, there are kind of subtle differences in what they've sort of said. So Putin has said that ties were at an unprecedentedly high level, which is something he said before.

5:41And, you know, it's this really unequivocal love for China in that sort of statement. whereas Xi has described relations in a much more neutral way as unyielding. So, you know, there's an acknowledgement there that this is a very close relationship. As we sort of discussed before, they, you know, have considered each other and have said openly that they are friends before. And there's certainly a kind of warmth there that you don't necessarily see in other relations that both of those countries have with other countries. But nonetheless, the relationship has shifted and it does feel like China is trying to play a game where it is positioning itself depending on what could be for its advantage at this moment rather than tying its mask to Russia and saying that that is a relationship it wants to pursue at cost to all others because that's definitely not the case anymore.

6:29And of course Russia's economy has been absolutely battered by international sanctions but also the sort of war of attrition that's ground on for four years. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So the war in Ukraine has put Russia in this position, not least because of the sanctions, which means that on the battlefield, things are not going as well as it would have hoped. And that's just had this massive impact on the economy. The trade relationship, the economic relationship is not equal. It's very uneven. And so Russia really needs China. And there's an opportunity here with the war in Iran. China has faced big problems in terms of energy supplies because of the sort of holdups in the Strait of Hormuz.

7:06And so there's an opportunity here for Russia, which feels like Putin would really want to seek, to increase that relationship on the energy front with China, get China more reliant on Russian energy supplies. And that could be a boon for its economy at a time it really needs it. Yeah, it certainly does. But is there any sign of what Xi is likely to be saying to Putin behind closed doors about ending the war in Ukraine? Do we know what sort of messaging he has towards Russia on that? Well, this comes back to your point earlier about the sort of hypocrisy of both countries talking about kind of wanting stability in the world order.

7:42China's position on the war has always, in terms of its public stance, has been very much it is a neutral player. And it's released these really kind of carefully caveated statements about wanting peace and the world order to be maintained. But behind the scenes, we know that it has supported Russia in many ways, diplomatically, you know, through state visits such as this one. and also economically with all these deals that are going on. The countries have had joint military exercises together. There have been reports this week, not fully stood up yet, that China might have even had a role in sort of helping with training of troops.

8:18So even though it says it does not support Russia in this war, it is certainly making moves behind the scenes to help the Russian war effort. And so it's possible those conversations will have been had behind the scenes. One would have thought Putin will be kind of quizzing Xi on how the Trump visit went, because obviously the Trump-Putin relationship is also important for both parties. Yeah. So how do you think this meeting will be looked on by Europe and by the wider West? Because, I mean, they've met several times before, dozens of times before, but this meeting under particular scrutiny and has particular consequences for the rest of the world.

8:57Yeah, I think that's right. I think the world is in a really kind of perilous state at the moment with these wars we are seeing, with the way the US has become such a volatile player and has proven time and time again, it really cannot be relied upon in a way Europe might have once hoped. And so pursuing the relationship with China, Europe has made clear is very important because it needs to be friends with other big bullies in the playground, if you like. And I think this visit highlights that there are all sorts of problems in being friends with China. You know, as we've talked about, we know that there's been this tacit support behind the scenes, which, of course, Europe will be deeply uneasy about, given the war in Ukraine happening on Europe's very doorstep.

9:41And Ukraine itself is probably looking at this very closely, too. Yeah. Well, Debika, fascinating. Thank you so much for your time. Not at all. Thanks for having me. that's it for today my huge thanks again to devica bat the guardians deputy head of international news you can keep up with all our coverage of putin's visit to beijing over at theguardian.com and if you're an arsenal fan or not head over to our sister podcast football weekly where they'll be discussing the gunas first premier league title win in 22 years you can watch it on youtube or listen wherever you get your podcasts thanks for listening to this episode of the latest today in Focus will be back in your feeds as usual tomorrow morning.

10:19The latest will be back tomorrow night. This episode was presented by me, Lucy Hoff. It was produced by Bryony Moore. The senior producer was Ryan Ramgobin. The lead producer was Zoe Hitch.

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