Can the Green party’s new leader galvanise the left?

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:10Today, can the Green Party's new leader galvanize the left?

0:21We're at Coyne Street Neighbourhood Community Centre on the South Bank, which is part children's nursery, part social hub, a very on-brand venue for the Green Party. And of course, it's where we're about to find out who's going to be the next party leader.

0:40For a party with only four MPs, the Greens represent a tiny fraction of the House of Commons. And usually, they generate very little interest. But this moment feels very different. I think the campaign has had a lot more coverage. It feels like there's a momentum and it feels like there's something that we're at the centre of the debate about what politics is for. And we need to be there to make the case for all the really important issues which are being ignored by the current government. The Labour Party has been spiralling, sinking lower in the polls in the first year of government than any other party in modern history.

1:17All the while shifting further and further to the right. Many on the left are searching for a new political home and for the next leader of the Greens. This is a real opportunity to capitalise on that frustration. This is the first time that the old grey parties have seemed less relevant than new parties. So this is really our breakpoint. This is where we are able to actually put ourselves forward to be credible challengers in Parliament.

1:54Starting with the election for the leader of the Green Party of England and Wales, Ellie Chounds and Adrian Ramsey, 3 ,705. And Zach Polanski, 20 ,411.

2:12There we have it. That is a resounding success for Zach Polanski. Overwhelming support in the room. People are on their feet. You can hear them stomping.

2:24Thank you very much. Thank you to every single person who voted for me. I promise to work every single day to deliver environmental, social, racial and economic justice. And to those of you who didn't vote for me, this is a democracy. We don't have to agree on everything. We just have to have common cause. And I give the same commitment to you. I will work every single day to grow this party. So thank you very much.

2:58From The Guardian, I'm Noshin Iqbal. Today in Focus, can Polanski beat Viraj at his own game?

3:09Peter Walker, you're The Guardian's senior political correspondent. The result has just been announced. Zach Polanski was the favourite to win this race and he will be leading the Green Party. First of all, who is he? What is his story? He's someone who's not an outsider in the Greens. He was their deputy leader from 2021 until now. He has a slightly different backstory. He was a Lib Dem once. He has done all sorts of jobs. He was an actor for a while. He was a hypnotherapist, briefly, which created one slightly memorable news story a while back. But he's very much part of the furniture in the Green Party.

3:44Nonetheless, his decision to go for the leaders slightly surprised some senior people in the Greens because the way they normally fight the leadership battles is kind of quite nice. And he launched it completely unexpected with an interview with us in May. And some senior Greens were going to go, oh, because the expectation was that two of the party's four MPs, Adrian Ramsey and Ellie Chowans, were going to win. And suddenly they were faced against this person who was running this slightly insurgent campaign. And one senior Green member compared it to me to a hostile takeover of the party, not because he's not a Green, but just because they didn't expect this.

4:20So it's been quite different by normal Green standards. And this contest has landed a year after the Green Party's best performance in a general election. You know, in 2024, they took four seats in Parliament, up from just one. What was Polanski's campaign about? Polanski's campaign was, in brief, the fact that his opponents were kind of promising more of the same. Not that more of the same is a bad thing, because they've increased their councillor numbers year after year. And in England and Wales, they've got over 800 councillors now. And Adrian Ramsey, the previous leadership duo of Adrian Ramsey and Carla Denia, announced about three years ago that they were going to go for these four seats.

5:02And I was in the room and I was thinking, nah, they haven't got a chance of getting four, you know, two at most. But they did it. So they exceeded every expectation. But Zak Polanski's message was basically, this is too slow. that the political world has changed. You've got Reform UK, which has got nearly 250 ,000 members. It's leaving in the polls. Dominating the narrative. It's dominating the narrative. And this slightly polite, incremental style is not going to get us where we need to be quickly enough. So he explicitly launched his campaign as this eco-populist idea. The idea of the Greens becoming a mass membership movement.

5:37You could argue a little bit like Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party, but one where they seize control of the narrative. And the argument of people who support him is that if you poll the policies that the Greens normally go for, then they're generally really popular. Things like net zero, nationalising water, wealth taxes. But what, when you attach it to the Green Party, suddenly people change their minds? It's not so much they change their minds, it's just they don't notice. And, you know, it's noticeable that I've been to quite a few Green conferences and Green leadership election results. and particularly the election results.

6:10I'm quite often the only member of the national press there. And today, you in the room is completely packed. There were pretty much all the broadcasters there, lots of national papers. There were people from other national papers complaining they didn't get a question. And that never normally happens at green events. Zach Polanski and his allies will say that's down to him. You could say politics is changing with this increasingly multi-party world. Well, he described it as a moment of needing fighty language and that's what he's here for. What do you make of that? I mean, it's what he's quite good at.

6:37I mean, he's a former actor, as I said, and he quite enjoys going on radio shows and podcasts, even when they're slightly hostile. And he's got this quite engaging style, but ones where he doesn't mind making a point in what could be called a populist way. And it was interesting that in the Q &A after his victory speech, he explicitly set out the way that Nigel Farage is able to cut through to voters and get this message over to people. And he was saying we would never ape the politics of Nigel Farage. but that kind of messaging which has seen reform basically go from nothing to leading the polling on 30 % or even more means other parties have in terms of communication got to raise their game and he thinks he's a person to do that.

7:31So Ellie Chounds and Adrian Ramsey presented themselves as the continuity candidates. You know, as you said, they won in swing conservative seats and said that they would maintain the party's distinct identity. Peter, what was their approach? Their approach was basically, we are doing pretty well, so let's keep it like this. Their criticism of Polanski's approach is that he's much more explicitly left-wing. He's talked about the potential of collaborating with Jeremy Corbyn and Zahra Sultana's new party, whereas they're more skeptical about that. And allies of Ramsey and Chans say that their concern is that could pilot votes in urban seats, places where the Greens often do well, like Brighton, Bristol and so on.

8:14But Ramsey and Chans won their seats in 2024 in quite rural places with a loose coalition of voters, which included people very interested in left-wing economic issues and the environment, but also people who approached those, particularly environment, from a slightly softer political point of view, because these were both seats that the Conservatives would normally be expected to win, but they won quite well. And their worry is that Polanski has a more explicitly left-wing view will stop those people from doing that. So, you know, on a more base level, they could lose their seats. Well, by some accounts, this has been a feisty or bitter contest.

8:51And I'll caveat that by saying that by Green standards, that is the case, by Green standards, who, you know, have the reputation as being the nicest, most egalitarian people in politics. But it has caused some upset. can you tell me why and how that's played out? The upset such as it is has been partly just a factor of the very different visions on offer, when I say very different, the slightly different visions on offer, in that if you gave a list of policies in the Green Party manifesto last time, I'm pretty sure that Zak Polanski and the defeated duo would both agree with pretty much all of them.

9:21But it was seen as this potential U-turn for the party, this change of tack. And so the stakes were higher than they normally are. And I get the sense that Adrian Ramsey and Ellie Chance, particularly Ramsey, who's been senior in the party for about 20 years, who's a councillor when he was 21, he's still only in his early 40s, felt maybe, you know, I'm guessing he slightly put out that this upstart was taking this job that he's done the last four years and he thinks done very well in. And there was this fascinating interview that Ian Dale did on LBC where he had both Ramsey and Polanski on. And he asked Adrian Ramsey whether he liked that Polanski.

10:00And there's this incredibly awkward thing where Ramsey's gone, well, I admire his politics. Oh, it's excruciating. And Sir Polanski was going, I'm quite upset. I really like Adrian. Do you like him? But we've worked together a lot of sorts of things. No, no, do you like him? Yes or no? I've enjoyed working with Zach over the last few years, of course. I really liked Adrian, so that does hurt. I mean, that's quite something. I disagree with Adrian a lot of things, but I like him. I can't even bring yourself to say that you like Zach Polanski. And I asked Ramsey when we did an interview later, do you like him?

10:28And again, he couldn't answer. So it was in some ways. And again, the context is these things are usually very polite. It was quite personal. Well, Polanski won 20 ,000 votes to the 3 ,000 secured by Chans and Ramsey. Why do you think that is? Why did he win? He won, basically, because he infused not only the existing party members, but got a lot of new party members to join. but they announced before the result was given that the party now has its biggest membership ever, about 64 ,000 people. I mean, that's still only about a quarter of the Reform UK total. That has to be seen within context.

11:00I think some people in the Greens were slightly worried that he would win on a fairly low turnout because the previous election, the turnout was only about 21 % of the people who could vote and that he might, you know, win by the kind of cursed 52-48 or something. But in the end, the turnout was 37%, which is for a lot of party elections, is pretty good. And he won 85 % of the available vote. That really gives him a mandate. I mean, it's quite humiliating for Ramsey and Chowans, particularly Ramsey, who's done the job for four years and everyone thinks he's done a pretty good job. But it means that, you know, what Polanski's allies were saying throughout the contest is that we think he's going to win because he's energised the party, got people on the board, got people excited.

11:43And it seems that that's the case.

11:55Peter, the Green Party have traditionally failed to capture as much media attention as they might. I mean, they formed in a pub in 1972. They remained a fringe political movement for decades until Caroline Lucas won them their first seat in 2010. Arguably, they are a significant political force now. They have four MPs, the same number of seats as Reform. yet still barely a fraction of the coverage. Why? There's two things. One of which is, because this is a common complaint, you get people saying Reform UK are dominating the airways, they have the same number of MPs as the Greens, why don't the Greens get as much?

12:31And the simple answer for that is just the polls are very different. The Greens in almost every poll are fifth and about 9%, and Reform are generally first for the last six months or so. But arguably it's chicken and egg, because they're gaining so much of the media attention, right? I mean, it is. But at the same time, as a journalist, you have got a responsibility to seriously cover the party, which could conceivably form the next government. Reform could. Even Zak Polanski admitted in his speech that they're not going to. His target is for 30 MPs at the next election. And that's partly a factor of first-past-the-post electoral system.

13:05You need to get above this certain level to be in the game. But the other thing in, which is the reason Zak Polanski has won, is that they acknowledge that Nigel Farage is extremely good at doing this, and they have been less good. And as Polanski openly said, Nigel Farage has offered this model of how you grab media attention. They're going to try and do the same. How do you think he'll go about doing it? The idea is to park their tanks on the lawns of both reform but also Labour. It was very interesting that in his speech, I think probably one of Polanski's best lines is, you know, we're not here to be disappointed by Labour, we're here to take over from them.

13:39You know, that's a big ask. Big talk. But, you know, we're in an era where political allegiances are more fluid than ever. So it's not impossible. As leader, in part, you're someone who tries to bring everyone together for a common mission, but you're also a figurehead, like a media figurehead. And I think that's what he wants to be. He wants to be the person that when you have someone doing a TV show or a radio interview, where they might be putting across a reform style migration or net zero point of view, say, who can we get on? It'll be interesting. And they go, well, that Satpolansky is quite good.

14:11and rather than you know Ramsey or Chowns might have done to politely explain why what Farage says you know their view doesn't make sense he'll be similarly to the point and punchy and eloquent and that's what he wants to do he just basically wants to get them out there because you know that's their struggle is that people don't really pay attention to them is there a chance that that a strategy might alienate some of the base you know going viral on social media isn't what some of the core of Green Party members might be after. That was the worry. And certainly that was what allies of Ramsey and Chowns feared.

14:46But you got 85 % of the vote. The party are with him. You were in the room. And obviously there was a lot of Zach Polanski supporters there. A lot of people were young, which for a political event is quite rare. It's worth saying, they're also more diverse than I expected for the Green Party, which obviously has to battle this reputation as being white, middle class, all the rest of it. Well, as Polanski said, they've now got a Jewish leader and a Muslim deputy leader, one of two deputy leaders who's a joint ticket. The thing I was going to say is that the young people in the room, unlike young people at most political events, didn't look weird, they actually looked quite normal, which isn't always the case.

15:21Subjective. Well, exactly, that's it. So I think he's kind of got the party with him. And the fact he got almost double the turnout of the previous thing, I think is almost as important as the number of votes, as the proportion of votes he actually got. He's been given a big mandate. Now it's up to him to show the members he can do it. Well, he's also said that Labour should be more scared of the Greens than they are of reform. What do you make of that and how do you think Polanski will appeal to the broader left? I think it's all to play for. There are a lot of voters out there who are disaffected with Labour.

15:53And the 2024 election showed that there could be a lot of surprising results, like the four Gaza-focused independents who took Labour seats. No one saw that coming until, in some cases, a month or so before the election. and no one potentially saw the Greens winning these two rural Tory facing seats. So the normal rules don't really apply at the moment. Zach Polanski has got not only a big mandate, but he's got a big possibility. And it could go one of two ways. It could go the way of Jeremy Corbyn, where you have a lot of enthusiasm, mass rallies, a lot of excitement, and you don't actually win anything.

16:27Or it could be that after the next election, the Greens potentially hold a balance of power. And, you know, it's a big responsibility for Zach Polanski. And it was quite funny, before the result was announced, I was thinking, oh my God, he looks like he's sick. I wonder if he's lost. And I think that's because he knew he'd won and now realises the scale of the task that he's got.

16:51Coming up, Zach Polanski in his own words as he sits down with Peter Walker.

17:08So, Zach, many, many congratulations on not only the win, but the level of the win. 85 % of the votes is quite a thing. Did you expect it was going to be anywhere near that? No, I didn't expect it, if I'm honest. I was really hoping to win. I've campaigned really, really hard. And I could hear and feel the support all around the country. I think the level of the win, though, is unexpected. You know, Ali Chalms and Adrian Ramsey are formidable MPs. I think they put up a good, strong fight in this. But I think it speaks to this moment that people are really responding to bold leadership, to be really clear about what we stand for and, crucially, what we stand against.

17:41I think people look at the other parties and see triangulation, and there'll be none of that going on here. Explain to our readers and listeners, how are you going to go out there and actually make lots more people vote Green? Well, I think the biggest mandate I've got and the biggest thing I talked about in the campaign was empowering communities, about getting around England and Wales and spotting people who really need a party who are batting for them right now. I'm talking about working class communities, people running small businesses, people who are self-employed, minority communities. So I think the first port of order is to get around those communities so that they know we exist, to be listening to them and connecting with them.

18:15Everyone knows the Green Party cares about the environment and nature. That's never going to change. They're really important things. I think people don't necessarily know, though, that we want to lower people's bills, that we want to build links with the trade unions to make sure that people are protected at work, that they have decent pay and decent working conditions. They don't know that we want to nationalize water companies and stop people pumping sewage into our waters and charging us extra for the bills. So in terms of how I'm going to grow the party, I think it's about getting around the country, communicating authentically, which hopefully I've done in the campaign as a result shows, and continuing to make sure that everyone in this country knows what the Green Party stands for.

18:49In a way, it's been discussed a lot, that people know what Nigel Farage and reform stand for. I think we've got to meet that challenge, but obviously not in a way that's about the politics of division and hate or about stirring the pot. But actually the politics of hope, and I don't mean that abstractly, the politics of hope are the tangible solutions that I believe the Green Party offer that people just don't know about. So we've got to get out there and communicate it. And Nigel Farage is everywhere. You can't pick up a newspaper or turn on a TV station without seeing him. Would you like to essentially mimic that to be all over the media getting the Green Party message out there?

19:19Because I know, you know, you're the leader and there's also the MPs, there's lots of other people. But is it your role to essentially now just be the public face and be out there selling the message? I think one of the public faces, and I really believe that's actually a mistake Nigel Farage has made, because when he's gone or if he gets distracted by something, there's no real team there. Now, I'm not here to give reform advice. I really hope that they continue to self-destruct when they have arguments between their MPs and their party. Being less churlish about it, though, I think it's undeniable that people in this country know who Nigel Farage is.

19:47I think it's also undeniable that he's an extremely effective communicator. He speaks to the worries and concerns that people have. I think if you listen to him for more than a few minutes, it's very clear that the solutions he offer will actually make things worse, that he is someone who is a millionaire, who pretends to speak for working-class communities, but is really serving billionaires. So I despise his politics, but he's also a very good storyteller. I think on the left, more generally, we've not always been great at stories. We're very good at spreadsheets and graphs, and they're important things.