Eurovision in crisis? Israel’s inclusion causes rift – The Latest

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:11I think it's definitely the biggest crisis in Eurovision's history. It's definitely a watershed. It's no way a crisis. We've got 35 members or so going to join us next year. Now, I understand the four or five who might not come. That's their choice. I completely respect that. We don't want to participate in the Eurovision Song Contest. if Israel is competing as well. Is Eurovision over? Is it existential? I don't know. Eurovision is supposed to be about unity through music, but as Israel gets the green light to take part next year, the contest is facing its biggest political boycott yet. From The Guardian's Today in Focus, this is The Latest with me, Lucy Hoff.

0:55I'm joined by Philip Alterman, who's The Guardian's European culture editor. Philip, you've been covering and writing about this for us. What's happened and what are the four countries that have pulled out? So yesterday there was a big meeting, a General Assembly of the Union of Broadcasters who organise Eurovision. That meeting was in Geneva. And some countries had pushed for a vote to be held on whether Israel can take part next year because of the war in Gaza. That vote wasn't held. and in reaction to that non-vote, four countries have announced that they will boycott the event, they won't be broadcasting it and they won't be taking part.

1:37Those countries are Spain, the Netherlands, Ireland and Slovenia. Yeah, and we've had some pretty punchy statements from them. Spain's culture minister says you can't whitewash Israel given the genocide in Gaza. Ireland and the Netherlands say it would be unconscionable to take part given the situation in Gaza. I mean, the reality is this has dogged and torn apart Eurovision for the last two years, hasn't it? Last year's song contest was also mired in controversy, but this is by far the biggest number of countries that are boycotting. Are we expecting any more countries to pull out? And if so, who are we watching?

2:17There will certainly be a huge amount of pressure in some countries. I think especially in the Nordics and Scandinavia, Iceland was one of the countries that has previously said they were considering a boycott. They're having a meeting next Wednesday where they will decide. Belgium is another country that has previously, I think, signaled that they are sort of boycott willing. And I think, you know, in most countries, there will be a huge amount of pressure on those broadcasters. There may also be pressure on the artists who are selected sometimes by a public contest to compete or not to compete.

2:54So I don't think this is the end yet. We may still see a couple more countries who won't be there next year. Yeah, I mean, the way this played out in the UK last year, the UK's choice, Olly Alexander, the pop star, faced enormous pressure to resign. there were multiple open letters, pressure on him to pull out of the competition. That's likely to play out again, isn't it? Regardless of who you might be representing. But the UK, the BBC is one of the broadcasters that's decided that they will be going ahead with broadcasting Eurovision next year. That again is likely to be controversial, isn't it?

3:32I think so. I mean, I think there will be a huge amount of pressure on whichever artist is selected. the fact that in the UK that's sort of done behind the selection process behind closed doors may make that even harder for individual artists because they don't get to really express themselves on the stage beforehand or announce themselves and I think we'll have a similar controversy in each country to be honest I mean I think there are some countries like Germany, Austria, the hosting country to an extent where there is a pressure to turn up. And if Israel had been kicked out, there would have been pressure to step out and not go to Eurovision next year in solidarity.

4:20So the dynamics are slightly different in some countries. But I I think this will be a really tricky concert, or if we call it that, music event next year. And it is the 70th anniversary of Eurovision. Yeah, it's a very important anniversary. And it is just a sort of mind-bogglingly massive TV event, isn't it? It's watched by over 100 million people, 160 million people around the world. A lot of this does date back to 2022, though, when in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February, Russia was almost immediately banned from taking part in Eurovision. A number of the countries that are saying they're going to boycott next year's competition have made comparisons with that, not least because they're saying Israel is an aggressor in the way that Russia was.

5:13That's really playing into all of this. And also, of course, showing solidarity with the people of Gaza. Yeah, I mean, it's a tricky argument. And I think there are some say it isn't easy to draw that comparison. We should remember that Eurovision is not a national contest. It's a contest between broadcasters. And that meant the sanctions against Russia weren't the sanctions against Russia. They were sanctions against Russia's public broadcaster for having broadcast state propaganda. So the question is, is Khan, the Israeli broadcaster, is it sort of churning out state propaganda to the same degree or is it also holding the Israeli state to account?

5:57You could say that's a different situation in Israel perhaps than it was with Russia. Yeah, it's a really interesting point because Khan has a very interesting relationship with the Israeli government, doesn't it? It's been critical of Netanyahu and his cabinet. And the two have sort of been at loggerheads for some time now. So that relationship isn't clear cut in the way that it was with Russia, right? I think so. At the same time, the president of Israel has been very quick to announce how thrilled they are that they're there. contribute. So I think it's a hugely important symbolic event for the state as well.

6:34So there is a, it holds a political function for the state of Israel. That's the tricky thing with Eurovision. It's political and it's not. It was never political by design to sort of gain this huge political symbolic status by accident almost over the years. Yeah, and much of that's about tactical public voting, isn't it about political campaigns that being run to make sure that certain countries get a certain amount of votes. And it's notable that Israel last year came second in the competition, which was concerning to a number of other broadcasters. Yeah. And this is the sort of the compromise that the EU, the European Broadcasting Union, presented to the ones who were calling for boycott.

7:20They said, we'll change the voting rules and we'll ensure that this sort of thing doesn't happen again. We'll discourage states or non-state actors basically doing undue promotion, over-promoting their artists and we'll change the voting rules slightly. That was meant to be the sort of fig leaf that would allow the individual national broadcasters to retreat from a boycott but it doesn't seem to have worked with the sort of the big four that we are now saying they won't take part. So the EBU, Eurovision's organisers have always said, you know, this is about unity. This was set up after the Second World War to bring Europe together.

8:00But the reality is that the divisions are now very, very stark and very serious. How big a crisis is this for the EBU and the competition more broadly? I mean, I think it's definitely the biggest crisis in Eurovision's history. It's definitely a watershed. I mean, we're looking at Spain, one of the sort of big four financial contributors. We're looking at Ireland. No country apart from Sweden has won this contest as many times. And we're looking at the Netherlands, which is a founding member. And Slovenia is sort of symbolic of their sort of Eastwood expansion of the European Union. So it's a big deal.

8:37And we don't know whether, okay, they won't be there next year, but the contract doesn't look like it will resolve itself very suddenly. So this could be the setup for years to come. At the same time, is Eurovision over? Is it existential? I don't know. I mean, Eurovision isn't the United Nations, you know, it doesn't have, it doesn't really have that many intrinsic values. It's a sort of broadcasting experiment that's sort of become political because people have brought political values to it. So my personal view is that in a way, it's a fairly neutral vehicle, and you can re-inject it with politics and meaning in the future.

9:13Again, something like this, countries taking a stand may well contribute to becoming more credible when they rejoin. But as you say, I mean, this current policy from the EBU, Eurovision's organisers, is not going to hold them just saying, you know, there are no politics at play. This is all about the unity, given how febrile things are and given that this isn't going anywhere. But I just wonder, before we let you go, Philip, I mean, you're looking into the history of boycotts in Eurovision. Yeah, it's an interesting history, isn't it? This is the biggest, but there have certainly been political boycotts before.

9:46Yeah, I mean, you could say there have been boycotts, has been sort of part of the Eurovision's culture from the beginning. You know, Armenia and Azerbaijan have refused to share a stage. Turkey and Greece have refused to share a stage. And the first sort of boycott call in Eurovision's history was ironically directed at Spain, which is now one of the boycotters. That was in 1964, I think, when the contest was held in Denmark and someone, a young left-wing activist, stormed the stage and said boycott Franco and Salazar. So it was protesting against Spain and Portugal being allowed to take part, even though they were run by military dictatorships at the time.

10:33So you could say that makes Spain's stance hypocritical, or you could say that makes them perhaps more aware of what Eurovision is really about than all the others. Well, it's certainly a debate that's going to be thrashed out in the next few months and weeks. Philip, thanks so much. Thank you. That's it for today. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Latest, the new evening edition of Today in Focus. We'll be dropping into your feed every weekday evening with what you need to know about the story everyone's talking about in around 10 minutes. and please do give us a watch over on YouTube as well.

11:03Today in Focus we'll be back with you as normal on Monday morning. We'll see you on Monday evening. This episode was presented by me, Lucy Hoff. It was produced by Ryan Ramgobin. The lead producers were Zoe Hitch and James Tyndale.

11:20This is The Guardian.