Russia threatens UK over supplying drones to Ukraine — The Latest

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:11I think the Russians are rattled. They hear drones. And if they peer out the window, they can see it. These are sort of supplemental drones, which are clearly very effective and from the UK. And as you say, have obviously infuriated the Kremlin. We have to read this as trolling. There will be consequences. There's nothing new here. The Russian embassy specialises in trolling. From The Guardian's Today in Focus, this is The Latest with me, Annie Kelly.

0:39Russia is threatening the UK with consequences after reports that British drones are being used by Ukraine to strike targets inside of Russia. Luke Harding, you're The Guardian's senior international correspondent. We are going to get on to those threats in a minute. But first, there have been fresh attacks overnight. How extensive were they and what did they hit? Ukraine has launched one of its biggest ever long-range drone strikes against targets in Russia, specifically in the Moscow region. We're thinking about 800 drones, possibly more, and residents there woke up about 5am to see drones weaving through apartment blocks, smoke on the horizon, and various targets hit.

1:21We think one of them was the Moscow oil refinery, which has been hit before. The mayor of Moscow says most of these drones were shot down, but some clearly did explode. And we think that one other target was a warehouse belonging to Wild Breeze, Russia's answer to Amazon, which was hit or badly damaged. And so I think what's interesting about this is that the Ukrainian campaign to cripple the Russian economy, So the Kremlin can no longer fund its war continues with, I would say, kind of pretty visible success. 800 drones, that sounds like a lot. Is that a kind of real ramping up of those strikes inside of Russia?

2:04Well, what we've seen over the last six, nine, 12 months is that Ukraine has been building up its own domestic drone making capacity, It's military industrial complex. And it's got units of Ukrainian soldiers who crisscross the Ukrainian countryside and fire these drones, launch these drones into Russia every evening. I mean, I watched them myself recently from a sunflower field in a secret location in central Ukraine. And it's incredibly dramatic. They sort of fizz upwards with a burst of orange and then motor with propellers. They're like old fashioned biplanes towards targets in Russia. And I think what's been interesting is that progressively Ukraine has degraded Russian air defences, which means that more and more of these drones are getting through.

2:53As you mentioned, you know, we know that Ukraine is trying to hit Russia's military capabilities, but you said they also hit this big depot, this Wildberries depot, which I think probably would be like them hitting a big Amazon warehouse here in the UK. Obviously not a military target. Explain why it is that they're targeting these big depots. Like what's their strategy particularly with that? Well, I think Ukraine would say it is a military target. You can buy all sorts of army stuff there from night vision goggles to flak jackets to soldiers boots. And like much of the war, it's dual use, things that can be used for civilian purposes, but also are being used and bought by ordinary soldiers who signed contracts with the Russian military and then go to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians.

3:39So Volodymyr Zelensky has said that this is legitimate, that these are what he calls kinetic sanctions. And meanwhile, we mustn't forget that Russia is striking Ukraine every night. It killed 10 people this morning in the northeastern Kharkiv region. And it's hitting them with drones, with ballistic missiles, some of them from North Korea, by the way, and with shells, artillery and so on. And so there's a kind of remorse, this aerial war that has migrated from the land, which is what we saw at the beginning of Vladimir Putin's full scale invasion in 2022 with tanks streaming towards Kiev. And now it's a war of the sky.

4:21And obviously, we know that Ukraine is ramping up its own domestic manufacture of these drones. But we also know the UK has been giving military assistance to Ukraine throughout this war. and what seems to have particularly incensed the Russians is the fact that they're claiming that British-made drones have been used in these most recent attacks. Is this the first time that we know that British drones have been involved in these kind of strikes inside of Russia? The source of this story is the Sunday Times, which published a long article setting out, well, quoting sources and setting out what Britain is doing.

4:56It appears to be there are two drones involved, One of them made in Wiltshire by a subsidiary of BAE Systems, which is a kind of short range drone called the Nyan, about three metres long, which has been blitzing targets just over the border in Russian cities like Belgorod. And a second drone, which goes further as far as almost 600 miles launched by a catapult. We don't know who makes this. It's not public. But this is the one that's been hitting various Russian oil refineries in places like Yaroslavl, just outside Moscow in the Moscow region and further south. And while I think it's significant, you have to understand that most of the drones launched by Ukraine out Russia are Ukrainian drones.

5:38So these are sort of supplemental drones, which are clearly very effective and from the UK. And as you say, have obviously infuriated the Kremlin. And, you know, this has now led to this direct threat from Russia against the UK about London's actions in helping arm Ukraine with these drones. You know, who made this threat and, you know, what do they mean by consequences? Well, I mean, I mean, there's a sort of flippant answer and a serious answer here. I mean, the flippant answer is who knows what they mean by consequences. And the sort of serious, more analytical answer is that this is a sort of standard Russian state propaganda trope, that Russia is the victim, that it's war of aggression against Ukraine, biggest war in Europe, by the way, since 1945.

6:28It's a war of choice by Putin. But of course, all of his diplomats, both in London and around the world, they don't really do diplomacy anymore. or they do trolling. So we have to read this as trolling. There will be consequences of some unspecified nature. But one other really important point, Annie, which is that Russia has been waging, I would say, a kind of multi-level war against the UK for two decades, on and off. Certainly since the murder, you'll remember, almost 20 years ago of Alexander Litvinenko, Russian dissident poisoned in a London hotel with a cup of radioactive tea. Incidentally, we've seen hacking.

7:08We've seen the bribing of reformed politicians, notably Nathan Gill, who was convicted, got 10 and a half years in jail for taking money from a Russian-connected spy. And so on. It's been a pretty remorseless campaign. There's nothing new here. the Russian embassy specialises in trolling. They really loathe Britain and describe us as Anglo-Saxi on state TV, which means sort of perfidious Anglo-Saxons. So actually, I would take a deep breath and not reach for the tin helmet just yet. Okay. But, you know, it does seem like a bit of a ramping up of rhetoric at this stage. And let's kind of workshop that idea.

7:52Do you think obviously this threat was made by the Russian embassy here in the UK. Do you think that there are conversations going on inside Putin's government kind of trying to assess, like, let's say for the sake of argument, they did decide to strike the UK, whether they would then be taking the calculated risk that NATO wouldn't respond, that Donald Trump still holds the reins there and that there wouldn't be any kind of retaliation? Yeah, I mean, given the context that Russia sees the UK really as its number one enemy, and that sounds a bit crazy, a bit hyperbolic. I mean, it always was America.

8:29America in KGB speak was the kind of Glovny-Protivnik, the main opponent. But obviously Donald Trump is the most pro-Russian president ever, who, for mysterious reasons, behaves very meekly whenever he sees Putin and quite often repeats things that Putin tells him to an American audience. So the Americans have slipped down the table. The UK is number one. Putin and the people around him understand they have a window, a specific window, which coincides with Donald Trump's second presidential term. And I think that their calculation correctly is that were they to expand the war in Ukraine, either attack the UK, some kind of hybrid attack or something else, or strike the Baltics or Poland, that Donald Trump would not be riding to the rescue.

9:12In other words, he wouldn't be sending troops. It's quite possible he wouldn't do anything at all. They have sort of a couple of years to do that because obviously after the next presidential election, if there's a Democrat or perhaps someone who is less friendly towards Russia, that would become impossible. So that means that Putin, who already he's already in his 70s, is very much an old man in a hurry. And I mean, also this question marks over whether if NATO didn't respond, whether the UK would have the capability to retaliate. I guess that that might be raising concerns here as well. Well, there's a huge conversation here about the fact that the UK, which sort of prides itself as an almost great power, certainly an influential global player, doesn't have a kind of corresponding military or Navy to the point where it's almost embarrassing.

10:05I mean, we have to acknowledge that America does 70 % of the lifting when it comes to NATO and what the UK can do on its own is relatively minor. And the corollary of that is clearly Britain needs to work more closely with its European partners. And just finally, very briefly, what do you think this says about the state of the war? Do you think that this is a sign of strength or weakness from Moscow? Or do you, as you said, you just think it's another case of some online trolling? I think the Russians are rattled. And really, for the first few years of full scale war, Russians, particularly in places like Moscow and St.

10:43Petersburg, could just not think about it. They could turn off the TV screen, pretend it was happening somewhere else and not engage with it. The problem now is they wake up every morning or every other morning at 5, 6 a.m. and they hear drones, this kind of moped like growl of a drone. And if they appear out the window, they can see it. And we know this because social media is awash with video. And this is what Ukraine is doing is bringing the cost of Putin's war of choice back to ordinary Russians so they can no longer ignore it. Now, will there be political consequences? I don't think so. I don't see any kind of revolution against Putin anytime soon.

11:20But Russians know the war is going on. They know the war is increasingly costly. And thus far, Russia really isn't winning. Well, Luke, I feel much better after this. I will put my tin hat away. And thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you. That's it for today. My huge thanks to Luke Harding, The Guardian's senior international correspondent. and you can keep up to date on this story over at theguardian.com. Before we go, I would really recommend listening to the most recent episode of our sister podcast, Science Weekly. Madeleine Finlay hears from science correspondent Nicola Davis on how fossils have become big business and why the ultra-rich collecting them could be bad for research.

12:00Thanks for listening to this episode of The Latest. Today in Focus, we'll be back in your feeds as usual tomorrow morning and the latest will be back tomorrow night. This episode was produced by Bryony Moore and Annie LaVespa. The senior producer was Ryan Ramkobin, and it was presented by me, Annie Kelly.

12:22This is The Guardian.