Zelenskyy ousts Ukraine army chief after protests - The Latest

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0:10Really, within hours of the decision, there were people gathering outside Zelensky's presidential office shouting Sierski out.

0:20The critique of Zelensky is that he can be centralizing, he makes impulsive and chaotic personnel decisions. What I think is remarkable is that Zelensky, after five days of protests, has essentially bowed to their demands and he's got rid of Sersky. From the Guardians today in Focus, this is The Latest with me, Lucy Half. Yesterday, the Ukrainian president, Vladimir Zelensky, fired his commander in chief army, Oleksandr Sersky, in what seems to be the biggest military shakeup in years of this conflict in Ukraine. Luke Harding, you're our senior international correspondent. What's going on? Why has Zelensky made this decision?

1:03I think this decision to fire the commander in chief, Colonel General Alexander Siersky, is really a victory for reformists, for modernisers, for society, civil society in Ukraine, which had demanded that Siersky was removed. And I think it's a really interesting step. I mean, it shows above all that Ukraine is a democracy where there is a president in the shape of Zelensky who makes mistakes, but who also is acutely aware of popular opinion in the middle of a war and tries to fix them. And so who is Sersky and why was he such a controversial figure? I mean, Sersky is a controversial figure for a number of reasons.

1:47I think primarily because he's seen as very much an old school general. He's Soviet trained, 60 years old. On the one hand, he's played a huge role in this war. He was the person who organized the defense of Kiev in the spring of 2022, when Russian tanks were rolling imperiously towards the capital from Belarus, and the Ukrainian armed forces kind of held them off and drove them back. And he's also the person who launched a surprise counteroffensive into Russia, into the Western Kurs region of Russia in the summer of 2024, where Ukrainian soldiers were actually steaming on fighting vehicles through Russian villages.

2:30It was another astonishing moment. So he is someone with a record. But the problem, I think, is that he's regarded by many people as inflexible, centralizing, a micromanager. And also, you know, the gravest accusation is that he has used kind of Russian-style meat assaults, as they're known, where he's thrown Ukrainian troops into battle and the losses have been very high. OK, so Sersky has now gone, but this follows a week of protests after the dismissal of the former defence minister. You were at some of those protests. What were people telling you about their concerns about that decision? Yeah, I mean, that's right, Lucy.

3:13Last week, Zelensky unexpectedly fired Mikhailo Fedorov, a 35-year-old, young, digitally savvy, popular defense minister, and sided with Siersky. The two had fallen out catastrophically over how to prosecute the war and the role of drones and so on. And really, within hours of the decision, there were people gathering outside Zelensky's presidential office, waving cardboard banners and shouting, Siersky out, Siersky out. And I went to those protests, I reported from the square, and the mood was electric. And what was really interesting was the sense that these people, mostly young people, some older, but essentially it was the kind of young post-Soviet generation, understood profoundly that they were the power, that actually it wasn't the government, it wasn't Zelensky and his team.

4:04It was the people on the street who ultimately held all the cards. And what I think is remarkable is that Zelensky, after five days of protests, not just in Kiev, but across the capital, has essentially bowed to their demands and he's got rid of Zyrsky. So how do these two things interlink? Because Fedorov is now reportedly, according to Zelensky, being brought back into the government in a senior position. So is that trying to placate some of that public anger? And do we know what he'll be doing in terms of the war efforts? That's the big mystery, is what happens to Fedorov now, because his old job, defence minister, has been taken by someone else.

4:45Zelensky's appointed a new acting defence minister. Now, the protesters want Fedorov back. Zelensky said he's offered him a role. We think deputy prime minister in charge of technical innovation. But so far, Fedorov appears to be resisting. So I think it would be wrong to characterize this as a conflict between Fedorov and Zelensky. Fedorov is very much a Zelensky loyalist. And clearly Zelensky is keen to have him back playing a senior role. But negotiations are continuing. And meanwhile, Zelensky is signaling a really massive shakeup of the army leadership. There's a new chief of the general staff.

5:21And the other thing to say is that the reaction from ordinary Ukrainians has been overwhelmingly positive, not least because the man who succeeds Siersky, someone called Mikhailo Drapati, is very well liked, both within the army and by the general public. And there's one incident which really made him a kind of star here, which is back in 2014. Lucy, you remember Russia staged this covert takeover of the eastern Donbass region and tried to to grab the city of Mariupol. And what Drapati did was drive an armored vehicle, literally drive an armored vehicle through a barricade by pro-Russian protesters, spinning tires across the street with the Ukrainian flag flying and flying proudly from the top of the vehicle.

6:11And the whole vehicle rocked. It nearly flipped. And this is sort of symbolic. This is a kind of symbolic act of defiance against Russia. Drapati really hates Russia. And it's a very interesting moment. It's a very interesting moment. So it sounds like, as you say, this huge military shakeup. So what does that tell us about Zelensky's position at home domestically? I mean, we've seen him a lot on the global stage recently. He was recently at a NATO summit in Ankara, in Turkey. But does that tell us that he's facing some heat from Ukrainians? The picture regarding Zelensky is complicated. I mean, his international profile is still very high.

6:52I mean, I watched him last week when Keir Starmer, remember him, British Prime Minister, made a kind of valedictory trip to Kyiv. And they gave a press conference in the presidential palace and sat in the shade having a cup of tea, talking one on one. I mean, the Zelensky, the statesman, Winston Churchill with an iPhone, as he's been dubbed, that is very much still the case. The problem is here in Ukraine, the view is slightly different. And the critique of Zelensky is that he can be centralizing. Some of the people around him give bad advice. He makes impulsive and chaotic personnel decisions such as the firing of Fedorov.

7:32But all of that is tempered by the fact that he is present in a time of war. And I think most Ukrainians support him. I mean, the kids on the square chanting Siesky out would then sing the Ukrainian national anthem and then chance Ziesky out again. So they are patriots. They want Zelensky to succeed, but at the same time, they want to keep him honest and on the right track. So it sounds like Zelensky has been under pressure, particularly from young Ukrainians, about keeping modernisers like Fedorov in place, who understand this new era of warfare involving drones and AI and that he is bowing somewhat to that pressure.

8:11Ukraine has also recently benefited from a huge 90 billion euro loan from the European Union that has proved, you know, helpful to Ukraine in giving it some success on the battlefield. Luke, you are literally about to travel to the front line in Ukraine in the next few minutes. What are you expecting to see there And how would you assess Ukraine's recent successes or otherwise on the battlefield? I mean, it was interesting. I mean, Siyoski, ex-commander in chief, posted a kind of message this morning, basically defending his record and saying very clearly, among other things, that Ukraine is on the offensive.

8:48Ukraine is on the offensive. He says Ukraine has won back more than 700 kilometers of territory from Russia this year. Now, we can debate that. The Russians are still going forward in these major cities in the east. a huge cost. But there's definitely something here has changed that the mood is brighter, it's more optimistic. And that's because over the last few months, Ukraine has really been pulverizing Russia with targets on oil refineries, military warehouses, ports, roads, it's destroyed nearly 200 oil tankers and ships in the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea in a very clinical and systematic way.

9:29And in this drone war, because the war now is a drone war, you get the feeling that Ukraine has the upper hand. Well, that sounds fascinating. And Luke, good luck on the front line. Stay safe. And thank you as ever for your reporting. Thank you. That's it for today. My huge thanks again to Luke Harding, our senior international correspondent. You can keep up with his reporting from the front line in Ukraine over at theguardian.com. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Latest. Today in Focus will be back in your feeds as usual tomorrow morning. The Latest will be back tomorrow night. This episode was presented by me, Lucy Hoff.

10:04It was produced by Angus Neal and Belinda Garung. The senior producer was Ryan Ramgobin. The executive producer was Zoe Hitch.

10:16This is The Guardian.