Chinese Food Spots You MUST Know | Gurinder Chadha & Paul Mayeda Berges

0:00So I was sent over to Pakistan. To be a mule. To be a mule and come back with copious amounts of lipstick. I was going to say makeup. And mascara and God knows what. I was taking six months off the job and was going to go explore Japan. And then Grenda and I met and the world turned upside down. So I still haven't been. That's my big dream trip. I would feel really bad for people if they never saw the Golden Temple and visited Amritsar themselves. You have not lived if you have not had Chinese food in Hong Kong.

0:57around the world for partnering with Travel Secrets, the podcast.

1:08Today, my guests are the dynamic duo, the wonderful Gurinder Chadha and her fabulous husband, Paul. They've been married for 30 years and worked together for as long. So I can't wait to hear how that works because that is quite a feat in itself. Certainly is. Can you see the scars you are behind so many of the most wonderful films from bend it like beckham angus thongs and snogging perfect snogging i think it was and one of my very favorite films bride and prejudice i was so in love with man that was in that i watched it week after week after week i thought it was so wonderful and your films are full of laughter and love but also they touch on amazing subjects which are quite difficult, like race and colonization and female empowerment.

1:58So I can't wait to hear all about that. But you were born in Kenya to seek parents. Yes. And you are American, but from Japanese and busk descent. That's right. Proper United Nations. So we're going to go a whole around the world, I think, aren't we? And actually, before we get into your travel secrets, perhaps you can both tell us a little bit about yourself and how travel has impacted the people that you've become. So let's start with you, Gurinder. Well, I grew up in a very typical immigrant household in West London, the world of Bend It Like Beckham. You know, we didn't go on holidays. Holidays was either going to India to see relatives or go to South End on Sea for the day.

2:42But the concept of holidays was not what I grew up with. And for my parents, it was not. If you're going to get on a plane, go and see family. You know, don't go to a place to look at the art. So I grew up with Athens. It was only once I became a filmmaker that I had the opportunity to travel the world, initially for various film festivals and then promoting my films. And then I had the travel bug and started really traveling. And you came from Kenya when you were a toddler, didn't you? Yes. So you are very British, really. Very British, yeah. I don't have memories of Kenya as a child, as a baby.

3:24My earliest memories are of living in London in Southall. And interestingly, my first sentence, what I used to say, my mum told me, was I would always say, I want Likna, I want Rottikana. So that I want was English, but the verb was always Punjabi. and that was my first so I've been that fusion person really since I was so young that idea of expressing myself as being both British and Indian and being bilingual and sort of bicultural and all these things and I think that's that what finds their way into my films but at the same time that certainly informs me when I go traveling. Absolutely. And how about you, Paul?

4:19Well, I grew up in Los Angeles. And from a very early age, I remember I used to dream of traveling around the world. And I would dream of going and writing novels. And, you know, being from the States, my holidays, I didn't grow up around the film industry. My mother was a high school history teacher. So our trips were jumping in a station wagon with my mom and all her teacher girlfriends and going all around the States, which is great. But by the time, you know, I became 18 and started, you know, traveling more internationally, I just, I got the bug and I've never lost it. And your heritage being Japanese and Basque, did you go to Japan or did you go to Spain or?

4:59This is my, this is one of my big things is I've been wanting to go to Japan my whole life. We don't have a family home there. All my family's in California. So, so sadly, I haven't. I've been planning it forever. just before Gwenda and I met in San Francisco. I was working in San Francisco and we met. I was taking six months off the job and was going to go explore Japan. And then Gwenda and I met and the world turned upside down. So I still haven't been. That's my big dream trip. Well, we shall sort that out for you and we'll hear more about that, I'm sure. Let's get into your travel secrets then.

5:32So you may both have different ones, but I'm going to go to you first, Gwenda. What is the number one destination you think everyone should go to once in their lifetime and why? Hands down, I would say Amritsar in India to visit the Golden Temple because pictures, film, do not convey the magnanimity of that place. You know, it is both spiritual, it is mind-blowing, it's beautiful, the sense of calm you get as you step into the compound and there's nothing else like it anywhere in the world really so I would say I would feel really bad for people if they never saw the Golden Temple and visited Amritsar themselves in their lives that's a very very nice tip and what about you Paul?

6:31I love Amritsar as well. But I'm going to say one of the nice things about all the films we've made is, you know, often you're traveling with a film or for work, whether it's to shoot somebody or research. And Gwenda took me to Kerala. We were researching this film called The Mistress of Spices that I directed. We wrote together. And Kerala just blew me away. I still love it. It's, you know, it's the southern tip of India. And it's got everything from, you know, beaches to big, you know, mountains and waterfalls and spice villages and beautiful bathrooms. Blackwaters, incredible food. The people are just so warm and friendly.

7:07It's like a third Christian, a third Muslim, a third Hindu. It's just a really egalitarian society and a beautiful, beautiful place. We stayed at a place called Spice Village, which is an eco resort. And so you really understood how they take ecology so seriously there. and we saw I mean out for the first time of my life I saw cardamom pods growing on a tree and pepper which of course was more valuable than gold back in this time in the day so to just walk around the the grounds and see these spices growing that you've always seen as dried you know in England that actually was really amazing and that that company is called that's one we remember It was called CGH Earth Experiences.

7:58And they're kind of eco resorts. It's not particularly fancy, but beautiful. And as I said, you can go and have Ayurvedic massages. You can have music, incredible food. And it's so diverse, Kerala itself. You can literally spend one day by the beach, one day in the mountains, another day in the backwaters, which are just stunning. How was it filming there? Filming was incredible because there's a big film culture. So really just very lush. It's different than the rest of India. It looks a little bit like, parts of it look like Hawaii or something. Like it's very green and beautiful. And my favorite bit are the backwaters.

8:38You know, there's a bit where you take little boats all through these tiny canals. And you've got sort of ducklings swimming past you. And it's just, it's heaven. Is that where your family are in the Kerala area or are they elsewhere? No, so that's what's interesting. So my ancestors are from the north, North India. And so we are originally, so I did an episode of Who Do You Think You Are? Did you? I must watch that. And so a lot of, we all come from Persia, basically. So from Persia, we came, you know, eastwards and ended up in the foothills of the Himalayas. and so there are North Indians who kind of have my features and more European features.

9:28And then the original Indians are what we call Dravendrians who are from the South. And they were from the time when Australia was connected to India. And so South Indians have an altogether different look. If you know A.R. Rahman, for example, you know like that you know he's a different kind of and so in kerala uh they're again different there right because of various influences because they're a poor you know they're a sea uh state for me what was amazing is kerala is actually a communist state uh politically and and it has something like 94 % literacy. And so people are very educated. I think there are more newspapers there than anywhere in the world.

10:21Like it's a very, yeah, literate society. And you see no beggars and poverty is not visible in the way that it is in the north. That's what my experience of Kerala was. however it is still very religious as you said you know in terms of Hindus and Christians there are churches and mosques and yeah amazing that it's actually that diverse isn't it very diverse and actually we when we were there in Calicut we found some very old synagogues because there was an old Jewish community there as well all living side by side nicely yes hopefully hopefully let's go on to the next one what's your most unexpected travel experience so I had two so when I was a student uh I had taken uh some time off and I went to India and in fact that was the first time I went to India um and I ended up staying with some relatives in Amritsar.

11:26And these were, this was a family with three daughters. And my uncle and auntie were, you know, had this, everyone thought they were cursed because they had three daughters. And it was all about how do we get these girls married? You know, there was so much tension. And these girls were hilarious. They were like, they were like, you know, really very go-getting and wanting to go out to work and create their own businesses. And everyone would be like, no, no, you know. You've got to get married. Yeah. And how is, why your dad's so rich? Why is he sending you out to work? And so I jumped into this world and I was like, what?

12:06But that was the basis of my film Bride and Prejudice. I was going to say, it sounds exactly like Bride and Prejudice. So years later, I came to be inspired by my trip there. But these girls, they said to me, you're here. You have a British passport. You have to do this for us. You have to go across the border into Pakistan and do shopping for us. Because at that time, it was the 80s in India. India was closed. So there were no imports. Far cry from the tariffs and everything that we hear about today. But there were no foreign imports. You know, there was no Coca-Cola. It was Campa-Cola. All the makeup was local.

12:44Everything was all locally produced, you know. And that's how India kind of developed so fast. Anyway, nobody like these girls wanted local makeup. They wanted you over the border. Exactly. So I was sent over to Pakistan. To be a mule. To be a mule and come back with copious amounts of lipstick. I was going to say makeup. And mascara and God knows what. So I had never been to Pakistan. I was like worried because I'm going by myself. you know and there is a border ceremony which is another thing that if you go to amritsa you must see the border ceremony uh between india and pakistan it's the border between lahore and amritsa is the nearest cities and they do a um ceremony there every night the flag lowering ceremony and people from both sides india and pakistan go there and cheer and everything but But anyway, I literally walked across because they had a friend on the other side who'd come to meet me.

13:49So I waved goodbye to India and the Indians on this side and literally walked across to Pakistan. And the doctor there who met me and she waved to the Indians and said, I've got her. It's OK. Everything's fine. And I was like, oh, my God, this is like a movie. And then we ended up in Lahore. and I was amazed because I'd been in India for about, at that point, three months, I think. And as soon as I went into Pakistan, it was American billboards everywhere. All kinds of advertising, everything that I had not seen for three months in India. How extraordinary. I did not even know that that had happened.

14:31It was absolutely mind-blowing. I was like, wow. and funnily enough so I got the lipsticks came back but the other time that happened to me was when we went to Hanoi um so we were visiting Hanoi I had a I have a friend who works at the World Bank and her husband Alan also works in development and they he Alan and I were at university together and so we went to they said you must come to Hanoi so we went and I was amazed again because i mean this was uh much later um 2001 or two i think but everybody wore the same color blue everyone was wearing blue everyone had the same sort of trousers and tunics and everyone was on bicycles and you've got a real feeling of what a communist you know Vietnam, Saigon, whatever, you know, would have looked like.

15:35And I was like, it was like walking into history. And there, there was one billboard that I saw. And that was for Samsung. It was a massive billboard. And that was the only one in the whole of Hanoi. That's amazing. Amazing. And the people were very slight, I remember. But very industrious and very healthy. because the breakfast, of course, is pho. So it's a soup, a lovely broth with loads of fresh herbs in it and vegetables. And that was their breakfast. And then it went on from there, really healthy food. That's such an interesting take on both of those places. How unexpected. Yes. What about you, Paul?

16:19Well, mine was when I was 18, I was dying to go and backpack around Europe. Like I dreamt of doing this. So I saved, you know, worked all year at my first year at uni, saved my money. And one of my best friends in L.A., we were going to go together and we had, you know, going to get interrail passes for two months. And I was so excited. And at the last minute, he couldn't get off work. And I was like, well, you know, I'm going. This is my dream. I've been saving for this. You know, we're going to do ten dollars a day. I'm going to make it last as long as I can. And what was so unexpected was was just the kindness of people.

16:53I met the most incredible people. I didn't realize you could take a night train and wake up in another country, and I'd meet someone, and they'd go, oh, when you come back through Frankfurt, come and stay with us, or Switzerland or Italy. And I just was constantly surprised by how nice and kind and welcoming people were. And I think it really gave me a huge – I mean, I'm always quite trusting and tend to be friendly and open, but the fact that people who just met me would say, come and come to my family come to my house come and be at my you know sometimes with my family or my friends and just kind of take me in i just love and it was it was the best trip because it really gave me a lot of faith in people what paul hasn't told you is that he had a budget of like three francs was it at that time well no depending on the country you know it started up as about ten dollars then it went down to about five or four yeah now he was at three dollars a day i remember but in France.

17:48And because we've been back subsequently and he talks about how he only had enough money to buy a baguette. And that was it. And he'd be eating a baguette and people would feel sorry for him and give him like a tomato or a bit of cheese. But it was by choice. It was like the best trip ever. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't like suffering. How long did it actually last, your money? Did you stay for the whole time? I stayed the whole time. I stayed the whole time. But like I said, by the end, there was nothing left. and uh which was your favorite country oh goodness that was hard because i loved you know i loved france i loved italy greece was incredible because like you know you could sleep on the beach so i didn't you know you didn't have to pay anything for that you know i just i loved i loved it and to this day you know whenever we're in a beautiful hotel or a beautiful place a villa somewhere i always think this is i really appreciate it because i've roughed it you know and i've roughed it many many times over the years and i've enjoyed roughing it you know i haven't been suffering i You need to have both so that you appreciate it, don't you?

18:48Yes. I remember in India being thrilled at this room in Goa that was costing me£1.50 a night. But it was right on the beach and it had a massive bathroom and shower and, you know, nothing on the walls and sort of concrete. But at the time, I remember being so thrilled with that bargain. Now, of course, I'd have a step foot in a place like that. I don't think you could even find anywhere that would cost£1.50. I think the cheapest hotel I ever stayed in was in Thailand in Phuket. And it was three pounds a night. It was called Pop Cottage. And it was right on the beach. And I was so thrilled because it had air conditioning.

19:24Wow. And I couldn't believe it. You know, it was really nice. Three pounds a night. Wow. Gosh. With AC. Amazing. Doesn't exist anymore, unfortunately, I don't think. What's the most, this is very hard because I'm sure you're both very positive and very nice. So what is your most overrated or underrated travel experience? I bet you won't be able to say something. I'm not going to be negative. It's my California positivity. My kids, our twins, say I have toxic positivity, but I'll take it. I think that's wonderful. I'll take it. Take that any day. I will take it. So you're right. I was going to do the most underrated place.

20:02And the place, the country that I love, love, love was we went to Iceland a few years ago with Gurinder and our twins who were quite young at the time, maybe 9, 10. and then my mother came over from LA and it was just a quick break it was like a four-day trip but it was just the most magical place and I loved um how alive it was and kind of volcanic and you know you could smell the sulfur everywhere and Grinda's a big geography nerd so she loved like we saw tectonic plates and and then we actually saw the plate where the the you know the earth is where where iceland's getting bigger you know so the plates shifting like this in this big park it was just stunning it was and i what i loved most was um we would go to these local um you know little spas pools so not the fancy ones but just the little local neighborhood ones and what i loved is you would be sitting in these pools with like three or four generations of families and everybody kind of chatting and being friendly and yeah i thought iceland was They were hot water springs that were on like every street corner.

21:09What are they called? Those geysers. Geysers. Geysers that spat up. That was amazing, watching the geysers. Someone was boiling eggs in one of them. So many people on this podcast have said Iceland is fantastic. I've never been, but people love it. Did you go in the summer? No, no. That was the other thing. I think it was in February. Oh, wow. So, you know, people want to see the Northern Lights. And we did a bit of that. And we saw some which was lovely, but actually the most lovely thing was just the kind of normal, you know, local stuff with just simple, like I said, these beautiful, you know, thermal tubs everywhere you go.

21:47And just, you know, it feels very kind of family and wholesome and very humble. Everybody was very friendly, but it's not, you know, there's nothing showy about it or just people get on with it in a lovely way. And I was invited to Norway, to Oslo, to talk to some students, theatre students once. And I thought, yeah, I've never been to Oslo. I've never been to, let me go, let's have a look. And it was winter. And what was incredible was it never got light. And that was something really weird. Very physiologically weird for your body. because you'd wake up and it was sort of dark. And then around about 12 o 'clock, it would be like it normally is at sort of, say, seven in the morning in England in the winter.

22:42So it would try to lighten a bit. And then an hour later, it was like what it normally is, say, five, six o 'clock for us in the winter. So they had a slight lightening, but it was still sort of dark. And so the whole day was dark. They must be very lacking in vitamin D. Very, yes. Because we're bad enough here. But that's why they eat a lot of fish, right? Yes. So I thought that, yeah, that was interesting. But I was not impressed with the food, I have to say. Really? Yeah. Smorgasbord was not for you. It was all kinds of soused fish and very pickley-based. Yeah, herring pickled. Yeah, and even the cheese, I remember.

23:27there was this big block of weird cheeses and stuff but it actually takes us beautifully into the food and drink question which is what do you like eating where do you like eating what's been your favorite meal well i have to say i'm a huge uh chinese food enthusiast are you yes above indian i would say chinese is the food that i always crave you know um whenever and even when i travel one of the things I love to do is have Chinese food in different countries because it's so different. Chinese food in India is hilarious because it's sort of Indian food, really, with noodles. Chinese food in Paris is amazing because it's beautifully prepared.

24:14The vegetables are beautifully prepared and very small and appetizing and fragrant and very different to here. Chinese food in America is just, there's just too much of it. Everywhere. Everywhere. And it's just too much. And it's like you order one thing and you go, well, I'm never going to eat the other two dishes. So that's over the top. But you have not lived if you have not had Chinese food in Hong Kong. I mean, we've been to mainland China too, but we had the most amazing dim sum in Hong Kong. And we were in this huge restaurant that our Hong Kong distributor had taken us to. And she said, what would you like?

25:07And so we said what our usual favorites were. Then she ordered thousand year old egg and all this other stuff. And every time we ordered something, she would order another three dishes or something because she says bad luck to have even dishes. It's got to be odd. It's got to be an odd number. So this meal went on for ages. However, it was the most beautiful, delicately made dim sum I've ever had. Do you remember the name of the restaurant? Do you know, I would like to say that I think most places in Hong Kong would be the same. would be the same because this wasn't anything particularly fancy.

25:50I just remember it was on three floors and it was huge. But the food was just incredible. The food was terrible. We can't remember. Yeah, it was somewhere in Kowloon and the food was incredible. And I think you got the numbers wrong because eight is such a lucky number. Oh, did I get that? So maybe it's the opposite. Maybe it's the odd. Yeah. Whatever it was, I've never eaten so well and so much food. And the other thing, though, that I do remember, I'd never been to Hong Kong and I remember having my breath literally taken away when the first time I saw the harbour with the buildings coming up right to the edge at night.

26:27That view is amazing. We look after the peninsula in Hong Kong, which is one of the oldest hotels. It's absolutely fantastic. And we're recording this in the peninsula in London. They have the most amazing Chinese restaurant here. I have been to that peninsula. Yes, I remember it. Canton Blue here is as good as the Chinese restaurant. Right. So you have to go. That's it. That's it. That's your birthday treat. That's your birthday treat. Well, I do remember visiting the peninsula in Hong Kong as well, actually, because we did some interviews, you know, in various places. And you're right. You know, the fancy restaurants are incredible.

27:07it's an altogether different version of Chinese to what we have here isn't it? Yeah it is but also the street food is so good too. Yes. It really is. Is that your go-to food as well? I'm a big foodie so I love you know I love Chinese, I love Japanese, Mexican, I love American like comfort food. I like all these things but I was going to say the thing that I really love is is Gurinder is a very good cook. So I love Indian food, but like, you know, proper home cooked Indian food. And when you go to, I think the food, Indian food in the UK is incredible. When you go to India, there's one particular place called Bukhara, which is in Delhi.

27:45And it's just a fairly simple restaurant, but they're known for having this dal that never stops cooking. So it's been cooking for years and years and years. It's literally this enormous pot and it just doesn't ever stop. and you eat it with like this family naan, you know, family garlic naan, which is like as big as a bathtub. You know, it's huge. And it's just the most delectable comfort food, you know. They actually sell that dal in cans as well now, don't they? But it's the color, it's the urud dal. It's the black dal, as we call it. So it's very creamy and very rich. There's a lot of butter in it and cream.

28:23And then they also do grilled, really nice grills. So lots of tikus and, you know, they do a hara chicken, which is mint and coriander. My favorite food is Indian food. Is it? I love Indian food. And you have to visit Bukhara. So much. Bukhara is great. And the only other thing I'll do is in Bombay, because I love Bombay is such a great city too. And with great food. And my favorite thing to always eat in Bombay is vada pao, which is basically just a roll, you know, cut in half. and then inside is kind of a fried potato and then it's just drenched in chutney and onions and chilies and it's you know there's these stalls that are famous all around the world for like making the best vada pao and it's the most delicious spicy gorgeous um thing to eat very hard going to india because all the street food looks amazing right and we we when we come from the west we're all like oh no we better not eat that we'll get to some tree and whatever so what they've started doing is catering to tourists.

29:26Also, it's just, you know, it's just fried potatoes. It's not like it's meat. It's fairly safe. Yes. But the famous place is if you're in the know, you get off the plane, you go straight in Mumbai, you go to a place called Elko Market. Okay. It's called Elko Market. And there you have pani puri, which is those little fluffy balls with the tamarind spice water, right? And you just stand on the street and they just keep feeding you those. I've actually got a picture up to give you of that. And you stand on the street, you eat those and all the liquid is made with mineral water. So it's fine. You get off the plane, you go straight there.

30:11And that's what a lot of people do. They go straight to Elko Market. I'm going to do that next time I go to India. My sister got married in India and everyone in our party was very ill except for me and after being there for two weeks I thought I think I better eat street food because I haven't been to the loo for two weeks but I didn't I was very good because I had curry for breakfast lunch and dinner yeah I just thought I'm not going to do salads I'm not going to do anything that they were doing yes they were all very ill well one of the hotels we like to stay with stay in in in uh delhi is the taj man sink and i mean breakfast buffet my goodness me like how many types of curry would you like for breakfast it's so good but so fresh they bring these fluffy puris out and an onion and pea curry to have with the fresh puris fresh pickle yogurt homemade yogurt like now that's one breakfast sorted then on the other side they're making fresh stuffed parathas with cauliflower and peas and potatoes and then you've got that you know over there and then you've got all the other you could just stay all day yes an indian omelet oh my god indian fluffy omelet my god that's a something to behold because That's coriander, chilies, onions, slightly spicy.