Interior Designer Franky Rousell | How Hotel Design Influences Your Travel Experience

0:00You're listening to Travel Secrets with Tanya Rose, the podcast that shares wisdom for fellow the world for partnering with Travel Secrets, the podcast. Today, my guest is the lovely Frankie Roussel, CEO and founder of interior design company Jolie. I hope I've got the spelling and the sound of that right. They are leading the way in designing hospitality and residential environments with human psychology at its core. So smells, colors, textures, everything to make you feel relaxed and at home. You grew up in the Cotswolds, your business is based in Manchester and there is nobody who knows Manchester better than you so I hope you're going to give us some tips and tricks about visiting Manchester as well as wonderful other places around the world.

1:14Welcome lovely Fanky. Thank you so much, what a wonderful introduction, thank you. That's yeah it's amazing and it's so funny when you sort of mentioned the Manchester reference, is definitely somewhere that I'll be giving a few little hints and tips on for sure. Thank you. And before we get into your travel secrets, perhaps you can just tell us a bit about yourself and how travel has impacted the person that you've become. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I'm the CEO and founder of Joly. We're an international interior design company now, which seems crazy to say. We started off very with humble beginnings in Manchester eight years ago with just myself.

1:54And we've grown now to a studio across London, Manchester, and we're opening a studio in New York later this year, which is incredible. And for me, you know, I trained in architecture. I did about four years in industry and then I decided there was a huge gap in the market particularly around experiences in spaces guest experiences whether that's hospitality or even sometimes you know the places we go to work and I'm really passionate about you know changing the way that design is not just perceived but how we approach it as designers so I've really sort of carved my path I think in it in a narrative that's slightly different from other people around interiors and it's really focused like you say around the senses and the experience and the neuroscience behind it um so it's been an incredible journey so far and one that I'm super excited to just continue to push ahead with and continue to grow the business internationally and have you traveled doing that have you done things abroad yes gosh yeah I mean that's one of the perks of the job is that you really do get to see some amazing places and meet some amazing people and we've started from ground zero and um I really did you know start at 25 years old and had absolutely no money whatsoever so it was you know those early days were all about just having that that visual in mind of one day you know you'll be getting on a plane and going and meeting a client somewhere but that certainly wasn't the case in the first few years but I think now we we regularly find ourselves hopping you know off to clients over in Amsterdam we do quite a lot of work over in the states we're doing stuff a lot in germany actually um and equally you know it's it's so interesting we had a request through for a hotel over in poland recently so you just don't know what's going to land in your inbox on the monday morning and where you might find yourself on the friday so it's really fascinating to kind of have that journey to go on and just be reactive to some of those things have you done a whole hotel yet so we have we've done um a beautiful hotel in the Cotswolds actually which is really interesting that that kind of came as a full circle moment as an area that I really sort of grew up in and I'm very proud to have grown up in and I think has changed so much over the years and I still regularly sort of visit my family in that area and so to have completed a hotel in that in that region is amazing.

4:17What's it called? It's called Hill Hotel actually it's the old Charingworth Manor and it's a beautiful grade two listed very much a boutique style hotel we designed three really intricately designed bedrooms sorry eight bedrooms three lounges and it was a real sort of test bed of being able to kind of really show our strengths in those sensory aspects but now we're currently due to complete on a really interesting project over in Chester Zoo which is very niche up in the north of England um we've designed uh up to 60 of their lodges which are going to be very sort of farmhouse style really focusing in on that kind of overnight romantic getaway weekend but also accommodating those young families um but really kind of taking that experience the next level and elevating things and that's been an incredible one to work on i mean the actual lodges themselves literally look over the giraffe enclosure.

5:13We've got external bathtubs and everything. So that's very, very soon going to be completing. And we're really excited about that one because I think that's going to be a real kind of moment for us at Joly. How fantastic. Well, let's get into your travel secrets. What is the number one destination that you think everyone should go to once in their lifetime? It's such a hard question that, but I think for me, I always find myself trying to gravitate back to the United States and there's something there that personally for me feels like it really fuels me and energizes me every single time I go there um I then had to kind of decipher where um and you know I think it is a real toss-up between New York and LA for me um it's so hard to choose between the two obviously New York the grandeur the scale of it the the the literal you know architecture and how insignificant yet significant you can be there um is such a powerful experience the kind of collective creative minds that exist there and um the pulse of the city just there's something about it that I find really magical and it really kind of fills my creative cup um but then equally uh you know I recently went uh back to LA with my little boy who's one and a half um but I had gone prior to to having him and it was really interesting to see how LA actually really lends itself beautifully to both an amazing kind of city that you go to or area that you would go to um with a partner but then equally it really kind of pivots into an amazing um family holiday as well so having you know the city then going up Runyon Canyon and being able to do that that hike and see the perspective of everything and um those super mansions I mean there's just nothing like it when you're sort of up in the Hollywood hills looking over that um and then equally seeing the glistening of the ocean in the in the uh distance it's just such a profound experience seeing such a huge place play out in so many different ways all in front of your eyes and so it's it's really hard to choose between those two yeah do you have any special places that you go back to time and time again when you go to New York or to LA?

7:34I think for me, New York, I really find myself in Brooklyn. I really love, particularly Williamsburg is an area that I, you know, Manhattan's amazing. And actually when I'm doing my working days, there is nowhere better than Manhattan. You really do feel like you're smashing it in your career when you're walking up some of those streets and, you know, waving down those cabs and going from meeting to meeting. But then it's so nice to kind of retreat back to Brooklyn as the sun starts to set over the bridge and start to dive into some of those gorgeous little wine bars and see that side of things come alive and eating in those gorgeous restaurants and small plates and sitting out in the street and hearing somebody really local have an argument with someone.

8:24It's just so cool. So New York. I think it's probably New York. I do think though LA equally, there's some real magic in Malibu. There's something there that's, you know, I just haven't found anywhere else like it. So I think, yeah, Brooklyn or Malibu would be my two kind of places. What's your most unexpected travel experience? I think for me, I, so I was very fortunate when I was younger to be offered to go to India at the age of 17 to actually spend a month over in India. This came as a kind of an opportunity that came through my sick form at the time. So I had a kind of group of friends who we all rallied together and we put our money together and I worked weekend after weekend after weekend saving up and got to go there.

9:14And interestingly, I didn't do a lot of travel as a young person. So this was like me coming out the blocks and going straight into India was quite an incredible experience. And there was a moment, so we went out to climb a Himalayan peak called Stock Kangri. And that was the kind of intention of the trip to also work with the Women's Alliance and an orphanage whilst we were out there and really do that kind of typical, almost gap year type experience, but consolidated into a month. but one thing that really stands out to me actually is a memory that sometimes even when I close my eyes at night and I want to kind of feel like a sense of grounding and normality is we were walking in the foothills of the Himalayas just as a day trek to kind of prepare for this big climb and stumbled upon this sound that was just coming out of the back of this hill and sort of turn around the corner and um there was this hidden buried um buddhist temple in the side of the of the hill and the monks some of them were sort of sat outside some were inside chanting and praying and they sort of caught us a group of you know three lads and two gals and said you know come in so we got to pray with them for about um 10 minutes and i didn't know what i was doing you just sort of sit there and start joining in but it was it you felt it was very powerful you felt it and still to this day I can remember the smell of that place and how it felt and so I think that was totally unexpected um but really shaping actually actually an amazing thing to do at that young age as well yes I think anyone that goes to India is changed for life a hundred percent um And it's an incredibly hard place sometimes to travel to.

11:03It can be quite an emotional place. I haven't actually been back since I was 17, not for any other reason than life's just carried on and there's been lots of other places that I've wanted to travel to. but it's somewhere that I'd love to go back to now as I'm in my 30s and really sort of see it through that lens but I think when you're when you're 17 18 even 16 you're really sort of finding your your political voice and what you think's right and wrong and so to be met with you know great visual poverty as well as affluence is um very grounding very grounding I think my mother was a bit concerned about me when I came back because I sort of went inwards for about a month after to to just kind of process but um but I'm so grateful for that experience now because I think it it opened my eyes up to the world and um yeah really sort of showed me what what else was out there I think it would be lovely for you to go back from an interior design point of view as well with all the different textures and you know things that you see the colors it would be amazing oh my god a hundred percent I'd love to go back there um and even to this day I've still got keepsakes that I picked up whilst I was there and I refused to throw them away they sit in a box in our garage so um yeah the fabrics like you say that the incense the the food it's one of my favorite cuisines obviously yeah Indian food anywhere in the world love it yeah love it let's go on to the next travel secret what's your most overrated or underrated travel experience I think for me I was um so context of this was that I was seven months pregnant and we were looking for somewhere to go as our kind of last hurrah before um my baby came um and we decided that we'd love to do a bit of a baby moon in Italy um and picked a few places that we'd not really done an awful lot in Italy before so um it was quite a new one for us but I'd heard a lot about like good and bad things about Rome as a city and I feel you know I went in interestingly with quite low expectations I think you tend to hear about Rome whilst it is such an amazing place and it's got such historical significance I think people you know tend to come away from it feeling quite overwhelmed or it's very touristy and you can't really cut through the noise of that so I really went into that with low expectations um and I was absolutely dumbfounded when I when we when we got there it was the most incredible city I think I've ever been to um I think sometimes it's good to go in with low expectations much better than the other way around absolutely absolutely um and we were only there for for two nights um stayed in the amazing Soho house there and really enjoyed you know that gorgeous rooftop pool and everything but then we got on foot as soon as we could and started uh walking around and i just couldn't believe you know you can literally throw a rock and hit a building that would be of there's a kings or queens or gladiators that had got a story behind it and every twist and turn there's you know buildings that have got cultural significance and as an architect absolutely i just couldn't believe it it's like opening an architecture book that you get taught at school and it's all playing out in front of you.

14:24It was amazing. Well, very brave at seven months walking around. Oh my gosh. You must have been exhausted. Well, I have to say I did try and do a couple of the monuments and there were lots of steps and yeah, there was quite a funny moment where my legs just decided, no, I got double cramp in my legs and I thought I was going to have to ask for a wheelchair at one point and Matt was mortified. um but no I did manage to get through it and it was you know it was an amazing place to go and then we took respite in Sicily so that was really nice as a follow-up yeah fantastic I think Rome is an amazing city and there is so much to do without even going to a museum just seeing everything it's just wonderful I actually did it on a Vespa so I watched one of my favorite films in the world which is Roman Holiday with Audrey Hepburn and Gregory Peck and he takes around Rome on a Vespa.

15:15So I did. It was incredibly touristy, but I said, I want to do the same thing. So they take you on a Vespa, somebody driving with you to all of the places, the Trevi Fountain and where you put your hand into the thing. It was absolutely wonderful. I'm not sure now, that was probably about 20 years ago. So it probably is even more busy now and the traffic's even worse, but it was such a great way to see the city. Oh my God. Well, I'll have to definitely take you up on that. next time I go. Next time, but not with the baby. Not with the baby. Leave the baby behind. No, good idea. Before we go on to the next one, I'd love to know a little bit about Manchester because I think Manchester can be underrated as a city and it's so exciting now.

15:57Can you just give us a few tips and tricks about Manchester? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's so funny is that I think that it's still an area that is so unexplored, especially for a lot of Southerners like myself who, you know, I did make the move up there following my degree at uni and I lived there for 12 years so it's been amazing to see that city develop and really come into its own and come to life I think the food scene in Manchester is incredible I think the the secret to that is that obviously as a city it and as a business owner that started there it really does it is a city that you can you know start up and really be brave and test and trial things without the running the risk of the overheads that exist in London so I think there's a lot of creative mavericks up there who are doing things quite differently and therefore you get some incredible you know bars restaurants to go to and I regularly still visit our studio up there I recently actually checked out a brand new restaurant called Winsome which is amazing very much kind of a British butcher type um aesthetic very paired back white tablecloths but then a very minimal aesthetic and the food is insane very british um and really celebrating i think some of those kind of regions the pennines around the city um so that was a wonderful experience um but i think you know i recently actually did a piece in l decoration um where i referenced a lot of my favorite spots there Yes, so definitely listeners go to that article because it's a brilliant guide to Manchester, what you need to do.

17:38Yes, and I love to shop. I love to eat. I love to go to gigs and listen to a lot of music. So I really try to kind of pull some of those themes through in that. So yeah, definitely go and check that out. Go and check that out. It's a very, very good guide to Manchester. And actually it takes us nicely onto the food and drink question because you were saying that it's got a great food and drink scene there. So food is so part of travel and so important to all of us. So what do you like eating? Where do you like eating? Let's talk about your favorite cocktail, restaurants, bars. Should we start with cocktails?

18:15Yeah. Okay. Well, a few kind of ones really spring to mind. For me, as I mentioned before, New York is a place that I absolutely love. And I love a dirty martini, preferably very dirty martini. So there's actually a bar in New York called Jupiter that I think I found my favorite one when I was sort of sat there. Again, I think a lot of the experience that you have with food and drink really is about the people you're with, the environment you're in, the context of the day. um so it was off the back of a a real kind of hustly day in in central new york and um i was with my creative director sarah and we sat at that bar and just really enjoyed that moment together and savored every last drop of where is jupiter in new york it's actually in the rock in the rockefeller center um so it's one of the kind of the basement retail units there and um it's beautiful um it's a very cool concept but we just dived in for a quick cocktail and then escaped but I think the food's supposed to be amazing as well um also uh spagliato is my new kind of tipple of choice what's a spagliato well it's kind of like a negroni but they top it up with prosecco oh yes I've had one of those when I was at Castel Felfi in Tuscany recently I had one it was delicious because I love a Negroni.

19:40Yes. But I had that. Exactly. Exactly. So I first tried this in Berlin, actually. Berlin's an incredible city. Again, another one that would be top on my list to visit if you can. But I was in a little bar called Frida and they had an incredible cocktail list and I saw Spagliato and I'd never had it before. So that was my choice. And that then became the drink of Christmas for us in our household. we were constantly pouring more spagliato so I would encourage people to try that if they haven't already so yeah those would be my kind of my notable cocktail moments I think for food so as we were talking about Manchester there is actually an amazing restaurant called the Sparrows who are you know doing things really interesting kind of culmination of things like spatzel which is a like a twisted pasta really delicious and they make it in tons of different ways uh but then they're also blended with this incredible sake menu and offering um so they've got like that Japanese twist as well it's really unusual it's under these old railway arches in Red Bank District and um you it's kind of one of those like you sort of knock on the door you think you're in the wrong place and then you open it up and it's like the most amazing hospitality um so that meal I think was really defining for me in terms of trying it and thinking wow this is so delicious um so yeah the sparrows is incredible I really kind of flicked between places where it feels a little bit more fine dining um but then also there's something to really be said for unfussy so uh for me a recent visit uh for on the sort of slightly finer side was au top in Paris uh in the Marais district this uh restaurant again really unusual entrance you sort of find yourself in a residential courtyard then going around the back by the bins and there's a lift and you think I'm definitely not in the right place and there's just a little plaque on the wall um but you go right the way up to the rooftop and when you get up there um you've got beautiful views of the kind of rooftops of uh the Marais district in Paris such a beautiful area is that the Place des Beaux and all of those exactly exactly um incredible shopping around that area as well and um and so yeah we sort of sat up there and it was actually quite a chilly day in February but they they can bring the roof over or retract it in the summer so it's completely open air um and I was amazed by the food that they were serving up there it was incredible we had this artichoke I never knew how to eat an artichoke but the man really taught me how to kind of pull the leaves off and eat it properly and um they really love their cuisine in Paris don't they so it's it's it was an incredible place but then equally like I say about the unfussy side of things I remember having an amazing lobster roll at um Broad Street Oyster Company in Malibu and you just sit in a parking lot and um you know grab it out of a van they call your name and you just sit there and uh it's just off the pch off the pacific coast highway and um best lobster roll i've ever had oh that sounds delicious and that's such a great drive so wow did you go to big sur and all over yeah it's fantastic amazing um and i'm hoping because i've not been back obviously since the devastating fires that happened over there that some of those spots that we really felt like we've made memories in are still there um but yes the pch drive is you feel like you're in a movie so cool and now I know where to go and get a wonderful lobster roll how exciting definitely going back on my list um you were telling me a little bit going back to Manchester about Nobu going into Manchester can you just tell me a little bit about that yes yeah so they've just actually announced um that Nobu is coming into the into the city um it's going into the incredible development called Viaducts um so I think they're taking one of the towers and doing the full hotel restaurant offering which is so amazing and I think that's a real kind of indicator and a testament to Manchester really you know putting its stake in the ground as a city that should be you know known globally so we're very excited to to see what that has to offer and see how that plays out in the north of England as well.

24:02No exciting very exciting. Let's go on to your top travel tip or travel secret. Yes, I had such fun thinking about this one because I think mine's really niche and also drives my partner Matt up the wall. But for me, I'm as I should be through Jolie, our whole concept is very sensory driven and we design spaces with all of the five senses in mind. And personally, fragrance is a huge part of my life. I'm just obsessed. I'm such a fragrance nerd. I just think it holds real power in, you know, being able to bottle up memories and be able to dive back in. And so anytime I travel anywhere, I always make it my mission to go and buy a new perfume wherever I go.

24:48And this has really stood me in good stead when I come back to be able to dip back into that experience. I'm having a particularly hectic day or even if I need to go into a really important meeting and I need to channel a bit of that Manhattan energy. I dive into my perfume drawer and I grab the one that I was wearing in Manhattan and it just gives me that energy so I would really recommend you know when you're next traveling to think about that and try and wear it whilst you're there and then reach for it again when you get home it really sort of brings back that memory that's a fantastic tip I am completely the opposite I have worn the same perfume for 25 years in fact I now have two I've worn cristal by Chanel and now I wear Rose by Jo Malone, Red Roses or the Rose one.

25:36But literally I do not, if anyone gives me perfume, I just think, please don't because I'm not going to wear it. But that's really interesting because it takes you back to that place. Yeah, I think so. And you know, they always say, don't they, that you buy that bottle of wine when you go overseas and then you bring it back and you drink it back in blighty in the weather when it's a bit grim and it just doesn't quite taste the same the rosé doesn't quite have the same edge it doesn't Saint-Tropez yeah so I think we're all on this kind of mission to try and bottle up those experiences somehow and for me fragrance really seems to be have that power to kind of and you know the neuroscience is there it taps into your olfactory system and it really is bound to memories and you know you can we can all recall smelling our mother's perfume or an ex's perfume so we can use that same power when we're sort of going through weaving through different cities to kind of tap back into that time and place um but yeah I was doing a bit of trivia last night uh asking my partner Matt to mention some places I've been to and then I'd name the perfume oh really and could you a few of them yeah funny you mentioned about the Jo Malone for me um there's a few different Jo Malone ones that come in there I really love her her work but um Barcelona was uh I think it's white mint and jasmine that she does uh new york was burning barbershop by ds and daga there's so many you know ones that like i say i always make it my mission sometimes they're just as simple i went to marrakesh and it was i got this orange blossom oil that they burn everywhere and i still dive into that now when i want a sense of that relaxation that you get in marrakesh how wonderful what a great tip i love it i think i might change and instead of wearing the same perfume change so that I have a different one all over the world that'd be amazing that probably would do my husband's head in because as you said your husband or your partner says oh my goodness how many bottles of perfume do you actually have that takes us nicely onto the most poignant travel memory that you have for me it's there's nothing that feels quite as powerful as when you're holding your little baby I mean I took my little boy on a plane as soon as we could we sort of ripped off the plaster and did it about three months and went short haul initially and then built up and up and then eventually ended up taking him to LA and then New York last year and I think looking over some of those skylines and holding your little one if that those are the moments where I felt like there were sort of tears in my eyes I don't know what it is about sharing the world through your children's or seeing the world through your children's eyes even though it's so tiny and he probably has no idea what's going on um but it just feels so magical to be able to share that with them and also because they're so tiny and these skylines are huge especially in new york um so seeing him sort of sat on the the brooklyn side of the river and waving over all the boats going down the hudson or not the hudson the other one i always get those two mixed up um but waving to the big skyscrapers in new york um will be something that I think will be forever lodged in my in my memories um yeah it's such a magical experience that's so lovely and actually we were talking before we started about photography and photos and you were saying that you'd had fun going through all the photographs because I asked you to bring a photo that summed up travel so perhaps you can tell us about that photo but about going through your photographs and also about your camera you were telling me yes yes so um yeah when you sort of asked me to bring one along it really prompted me to go back through my camera album you know all on our phones we've got so many snaps that we take and then we just never seem to look at them again so it was really great actually the good thing about the iphone is you can just put in keywords like food or uh building whatever and it'll pull up all those photos there's also the map function on uh photos on the iphone where you can search by map so you zoom in on a country and then it'll bring up all your photos that you took while you're in that place do you have to tag them for that or not no it just happens i guess you have to maybe put have your location settings enabled so that whilst you're snapping away it's sort of subtly banking that data um so yeah it was it's a really nifty way of kind of uh I've used it a lot actually to remember what what bars and restaurants I've been to on my iPhone but it really kind of prompted me to go back through and relive some of those amazing holidays so I think photos and photography is something that I'm really passionate about it runs through my family my grandfather was a professional photographer so whenever we're going anywhere again my partner Matt bless bless him but he has to stand and wait for me to get that that shot um but yes I think there's nothing more powerful than capturing on film as well uh but you know when we're out and about on the streets whether that's New York Paris Berlin whatever it is it can be quite full on and there's a lot going on and you don't really want to be standing there for even two minutes whilst you're ready to go and get that coffee um trying to get your aperture right and your shutter speed and you know I'm not a professional photographer so I found a amazing camera actually recently that's from the 80s uh the Minolta x700 which I use a lot when I travel um beautiful film and it's very much acts like a point and click so you can choose whether you want to stand there and really play with the settings or if you just want a quick option you just set it to auto and you can just point and click and you still get that same gorgeous aesthetic um and then also there's that lovely thing about taking it to get developed and then going and picking them up and not knowing what you got um so that's so exciting and I think it's nice to kind of do a bit of both having it on your phone and also on film that's a lovely tip and what photograph did you bring for us when you were sifting through to talk about yes yeah gosh again so hard when we take thousands of photos when we travel um my photograph is quite a simple one uh this is a recent trip that we took to Corfu um with my partner's family um his dad's got a boat over there but this time we actually uh rented a gorgeous house up in the hills in Corfu um and we every evening because it was a almost like an Airbnb type property we sat out and made our own food and whilst we did kind of go to some local tabernas and restaurants we really made a point of kind of making our own dinners so there was a gorgeous barbecue there and so the picture itself is a snap of myself and my little boy blue sat waiting for everyone else to get to the table so we can dig into this big delicious supper that we'd made um and again that's another one that i tend to do is um i think there's something so amazing about going shopping locally in supermarkets when you're overseas especially when you're on the continent or anywhere near the mediterranean it's so amazing going into those grocery stores and seeing the size of the tomatoes and makes you feel like a local doesn't it really does um so we rented a little old fiat and um pootle down to the um grocery store and filled up the car with all this fruit and veg and then came back and I'd snapped before I went a few pictures of some of my favorite salads in these cookbooks that I've got so that I could remember you know how to cook when you get there and you're overwhelmed by that new kitchen and that new environment um so I was able to rustle up some big bowls of salads whilst we were there and um I think hopefully it went down quite well how wonderful Corfu what a place it's just incredible I went many, many years ago.

33:16I haven't been for many years, but I absolutely loved it during my childhood when I went. And I'm sure it's fabulous still. So before I let you go, what's next for you? Where are you going next? But also what's next for you and your wonderful career? Yes. Well, in terms of travel adventures, I think Asia is an area that we've not, well, I've personally not explored an awful lot of other than obviously my time when I was much younger over in India. But I'm really eyeing up Tokyo at the moment. I think that just keeps calling me. Lots of my amazing designers going over there and I'm very jealous looking at all their pictures.

33:52So that's a place that I would love to visit. But equally Thailand, the recent White Lotus, I think, is influencing me slightly. I think it's influencing everybody. I try to book a flight to Bangkok because I'm going in November and already the prices are astronomical. But it's beautiful. Yeah, I would love to do Thailand. And that's, again, a place that, you know, back in the sort of 2010s when I was at uni, um a lot of my friends went to Thailand and they did the classic university type Thailand experience so I think I always sort of skirted around it for that reason I don't know why it just it freaked me out a little bit but I'd love to go back there now in my 30s and take my little boy and really lean into the cultural side of that and I love Thai food as well so I have no doubt that that will go down well um yeah and I think from a career standpoint so we're continuing to design amazing hotels what an amazing job to have to be able to shape people's experiences when they get to go and travel and I'm particularly fond of spa experiences and that was another one of my tips actually is to try and always book a massage or a spa experience no matter where you go because they're so different all over the world and some of my best most fond memories are some of the spa type experiences that I've been able to have so I think for us we're shooting for the stars in terms of um you know the types of projects we'd love to continue to work on i'd love to do a for example a gorgeous spa on i don't know a mykonos beachfront or something at some point um but we're very much on that that route um and currently we're designing an amazing hotel in covent garden which i think will make a big splash when that when that gets launched 300 bedrooms and um we'll continue to kind of work in that that realm and then I think for us opening our international offices as well is going to be a whole journey in itself and one that I'm equal parts super excited about equal parts totally terrified by but I think you know that's the the drive in me around not wanting to leave any stones unturned um when my final days arrive I want to feel like I've done it all so we're just going to go for it and see what happens well I wish you the best of luck I'm sure you will do amazingly well because you already are and I hope one day we'll work together on a project which would be fascinating and very exciting.

36:19Thank you so much for joining me it's been wonderful. Thank you Tanya it's been amazing. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Travel Secrets. I'm loving making this podcast and want it to reach as many people as possible to build this community of fellow travellers. So please do subscribe on your favourite podcast app and share with a friend. I'll be back next week. And remember, this podcast might not change your life, but it might just change your plans.