Penelope Chilvers | Why You NEED to Visit Argentina!

0:00You're listening to Travel Secrets with Tanya Rose, the podcast that shares wisdom for fellow the world for partnering with Travel Secrets the podcast. Today my guest is the leading British shoe designer Penelope Chalvers. Famed for her superb quality, comfort and effortless style of her long tassel riding boots, espadrilles, Chelsea boots, the warmest apres ski boots, Mary Janes, I could go on and on. Fan of the Princess of Wales, Alexa Chung, Rihanna, Kate Blanchett you are a massive lover of travel you have holidayed all over the world I cannot wait to hear your travel secrets welcome lovely Penelope thank you so much Tanya it's so nice to have you here I am such a big fan and before we start I think we were chatting and I told you I broke both my legs last year so I can't wear high heels anymore so I hot-footed to your shop and I bought the most gorgeous I think they're the Mary Janes the ones the gold flat ones with the little um little heel and a little thing over them and they're so comfortable and so lovely every time I wear them people say where do you get them where do you get them my best friend wears your espadrilles all over the world and literally everyone I know has a pair of your amazing riding boots so it's so exciting to meet you thank you for coming thank you for having me before we get into your travel secrets perhaps you can just tell us a bit about yourself and how travel has impacted the person that you have become today yes looking back I think travel has really made me the person who I am having traveled from quite a young age with my parents I can now look back and see how it's made me who I am.

2:22I found it, I think what it's given me is confidence. It's given me language. I love my languages and speak two or three languages. I think it gives you, I think when you travel, it gives you this wonderful confidence because of the anonymity that you have when you're traveling and you're not in your own city. And most importantly, it's given me inspiration and an education and knowledge to do the job that I do.

3:03And lastly, I think what I've done is I've built, because I love travel so much, I have built a business that takes me back and forth to Spain, which is a country that I love. So I have one foot in each country all the time. Yes, that's just fantastic. And I'm sure when we go into the travel secrets, you'll be talking about Spain. So I won't ask you too much about that. But your boots and your shoes are all made abroad as well, aren't they? In Spain and Portugal. So that's lovely that you can go to that. And I actually have done quite a lot of research and I've seen that you've been to other places where you've done collections.

3:41So let's see if we get into those in your travel secrets. Otherwise, I shall ask you more about that. I think what I'd like to say is that my parents used to, because my father was in a company where he was setting up companies down the east coast of Africa.

4:00Tanzania, Kenya, Zambia, South Africa at the time. And in those days, travel was done very slowly. So in the school holidays, he would take us and we would go there for quite a long time. and that was probably the most exotic and life-changing of experiences as a child and that probably whet my appetite for travel. I bet it did. God how wonderful and as you say slow travel is so so few people do slow travel now don't they and it's just such a lovely way to do it to actually get under the skin of that destination and and really feel like you get to know the country. Yeah. Let's go into your travel secrets then.

4:43What is the number one destination that you think everybody should go to once in their lifetime? I've got two answers for that. I had thought of saying the Alhambra Palace, which is in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, was built in the 12th century. And I think if there's one place that you should go and visit, particularly if you want to understand European history, that's one of them. And I've been many times and I absolutely love it for so many reasons as a designer I'm particularly interested in the the Moorish design that arrived in Spain 500 years rule of the of the Arabs in Spain has left such an incredible design traits such incredible design traits that that I use in my own work.

5:37So I've been back many times. But then having recently been traveling, I also thought that something more accessible for everybody would be to go to wherever they're going to visit the local market. Because I think a local market is always a very happy place, seems to be a very happy place. People are trading whatever they want to be trading. And I think you get kind of under the skin of a place by just traveling to the market. And I don't mean touristic markets, I mean the market where everyone is trading. And I believe in shopping locally. And so I think to keep our markets alive, we have to support them.

6:19That's a lovely idea. And actually, a few people who've been on the podcast have said that that's their travel secret, their travel tip, because people like Ruthie Rogers, who owns the River Cafe, said Venice and then she said but go to the market and then you see the fish you see the local produce and then that really helps you get under the skin of it so I think that's a lovely tip and there are some amazing markets in the UK and in Paris as well I've just been to Paris and you know those wonderful Paris markets are fantastic so I think that's a great answer and the Alhambra is I think one of the most beautiful places I've ever been in my life my mother used to live in Spain and I'm sure we'll talk about Spain because you spent a lot of time in Barcelona and in Madrid didn't you but the Alhambra is just wonderful and there's a really gorgeous hotel I don't think it's in Granada which is where the Alhambra is I think it's in Cordova or Seville which is in that area called the Hacienda San Rafael that's a really really lovely place and we were talking earlier about Trasara owned by Charlotte Scott, but unfortunately that's no longer a hotel.

7:27Trasierra. Trasierra, yeah. Yes. That was a lovely place. But I think that's just a private home now, isn't it? Yeah. I live on the edge of, well, I live on the edge of Portobello Road in Notting Hill Gate and I have actually taken a pitch there and sold from there. And it was, there's just such amazing camaraderie. is that before you had your business it was when I was closing down one of my businesses I'm a cereal maker so and um before I started the other one just really but it's a great way to get rid of um clothes that you want to sell on or I love going to Portobello on a Saturday it's fantastic I've got I bought the most wonderful cap there the other day which was just fantastic it I loved it um so on on Spain when I did my research about you and it said that you lived in Barcelona for a long time but that you also were restoring the Picasso Museum or something that sounded fascinating yes I trained as a painter when I was living in London um and then I did an MA in Madrid.

8:38I got a Bekauer, what's it called, a scholarship to study my fourth year in fine art in Madrid. So I first went to Madrid and then I moved to Barcelona where I married my husband who I met when I was 16 years old. Oh, how wonderful. Yes. And my first profession was using my skills as a painter. So I used to restore painted ceilings and walls and furniture. That's amazing. And then from there, you started your business. And how did that start? This is a travel podcast, we're talking about travel, but I think so much part of your riding boot is a story about travel, isn't it? So I lived in Barcelona for 10 years.

9:26And while I was there, as a painter, working as a painter, I used to ride on my lunch breaks up in the Cuisarola Park. And I'd met an artisan who made me a pair of boots to my measurements and design. And that was kind of the beginning of a career. I didn't know it then. But when I came back to London, I found that all my girlfriends said, God, those boots, I really want some. So I started making them on the side for my girlfriends with the artisan Manuel and that's what eventually became a career. Fantastic and your boots are so comfortable what is it that makes them so comfortable is it because they fit most shaped legs or is it the cushioning or what I'm not going to ask you to give your trade seat sorters away but they really are the most comfortable boots.

10:20Yes, we go through a really rigorous routine when we bring something out. It sometimes takes two years to bring out a new model. And we do a fit session and then we all wear them in the office. And I find that comfort is the most important thing about our footwear. I mean, if you can't run for a bus, then you're not wearing the right footwear or not wearing, certainly not wearing Penelope Childers footwear. So what is your most unexpected travel experience or adventure? So I've been working with my makers, the artisans, in southern Spain for 25 years now. And for the first 15 years, as business got going, they started inviting me to join them on a pilgrimage to southern Spain to El Rocío.

11:15You can see the medallion I'm wearing around my neck. That's beautiful. That is Rocío. the virgen and um i was always slightly intimidated by this wonderful invitation because i thought well i can't ride well enough um they take it all so seriously there's a whole ritual and tradition um so rich in tradition that i thought i'd feel like an outsider and i never knew whether they really wanted me to go or not or they were just being polite but one year about I think it must have been about 10 years ago I decided to join them and it was the most incredible experience it was a life-changing experience really and a very bonding moment for me and my makers and I feel extremely privileged to have been asked along it was the reason why I thought it was the most incredible experience is I didn't expect it to be quite so moving and quite so strenuous.

12:16We walked 10 kilometers a day and in skirts, in flamenco skirts. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, in trajes, as they're called, and in our boots.

12:30And there were moments along the way, it was a journey, and there were moments along the way that they would sing ballads and I'd see men in tears remembering their loved ones who were no longer. It was steeped in the most beautiful tradition. Is that an annual thing that they do? Yes, they do it annually. And what I've known, what I knew before I went on it is that there is a certain critical time to get my orders in for sampling before this pilgrimage because they're always busy making new leather goods to sell at the destination that we were all walking to when they get incredibly busy. But it's something that I've done three times since.

13:18How long is the actual pilgrimage? How many? Well, you can walk from wherever you want. So there are some people that come from, there are expat Spaniards who live in Germany who come. You can come from Seville. You can come from Huelva. You can come from Portugal. There are, you can come from wherever you like. but our walk was um two days how lovely and i didn't didn't ride with them i walked um but i do remember there was one moment when we stopped for lunch and we're also hungry and i i remember the probably the most delicious lettuce that i've ever eaten was given to me it was just sliced it was a koi lettuce you know cut sliced down the spine olive oil and salt and it was the most delicious they have ever eaten.

14:01Oh, that's amazing. And then when we arrived, there were three days of partying, which was wonderful. In a very old-fashioned way, the partying was not just partying. It was by invitation. You're invited to people's houses to pop in and spend some time with them and listen to them singing and dancing. Oh, how wonderful. Yeah. That sounds so lovely. That's so lucky. So lovely. The only pilgrimage really that I know of and I've always wanted to do is the Camino de Santiago. Yes. And then whenever I think about it, I think, oh, have I got the – it's not even the time. It's can I really do this? But I think it would be a really poignant thing to do.

14:46And also I think it's very life-changing when you do do something like that. It really takes you off grid and into the moment. and I think it being so strenuous as well is very bonding with people that you're walking with. And now when I go back to the town where I make my products, I bump into people that I met on the pilgrimage and haven't seen since. And it's a totally different relationship now, I'm sure. No, it's just it's lovely to bump into them. They say, ah, you were there in the 1992, no, whatever it was. no 2016 pilgrimage I remember that one and I go yes that was Mia oh how lovely so what is your most overrated or underrated travel trip or adventure you've ever had I was talking once to a friend of mine called Chris Wilmot Sitwell who owns Casanova and Lloyd oh yeah the great travel designers I suppose you could call them who create the most incredible holidays once in a lifetime experiences and I was saying to him we were talking about Argentina and I was saying to him you know I use the word gaucho in my work quite often but I don't really understand what it's about I say that I have gaucho leathers which mean that they're they're kind of dusty and and not looking very new and kind of wild look in our in our footwear but I didn't really know any more about the gaucho.

16:18And so he said, well, why don't you come with me? I'm going to Argentina and I'm going with Maria Schollemberger, who was writing a piece for How to Spend It. Why don't you come and explore the gaucho world? And I thought, goodness, you know, how extraordinary to go on a trip with two people I didn't know very well. And so I jumped at it. Lovely, both of them. Yes, wonderful. I mean, she's the best travel writer I know. And so it was a real journey of exploration. However, what I hadn't understood was how you can plan ahead and turn something into something very, you know, poignant and exacting.

17:07So when I said that's what I wanted to do, he listened hard to what I wanted to do. And from one flight straight to Buenos Aires, you know, four hours later, I was in San Antonio de Areca, which is the center of the gaucho community. And there I was met by some of the community there. And I spent three days immersed in the gaucho culture, which I absolutely adored. I was so inspired by their love of nature and how they can live at one with nature and their horsemanship. And also the artisan from the area that created such beautiful leather goods that I'd never seen before. However, I kind of recognized it from coming from Spain.

18:09There are many design traits that have come across from Spain to South America. And that started a whole new interest in the history of leather work for me. But that, you know, that was all, that was a big surprise to me. And actually, I think that Casanova Lloyd and a few of those other really top travel designers, as you call them, they make it feel very spontaneous and authentic but in such an amazingly planned way they are so clever yes because they don't make it feel like you're going boom boom boom straight on to something else you really do actually understand and get the feeling of what you want to feel but it is so meticulously planned they're very very clever yeah and they had people there on the ground who really knew about my own special field and did you change the way you were doing things when you came back or you just took inspiration?

19:02Well, funny enough, I was having lunch with a group of gauchos. They were there with, you know, moustaches and swords on their belts and their boots. And after lunch, after a few glasses of wine, we all started talking about boot making. And I was wearing a pair of long boots. And we all started taking our boots off and putting them on the table and looking at the way we'd had them made. and I thought I was going to learn something about making boots but actually I thought I think we all thought around the table that my boots were probably better made because there's great pride in boot making and how many pieces of leather it takes to make a piece a boot and mine have one piece from tip to toe of of beautiful leather that's got the most incredible curve in the arch sorry in the front part of your foot whereas theirs were chopped and chopped and sewn how wonderful so you taught the gaucho something and they taught you something I think that's absolutely amazing that's such a great story how wonderful I did actually then come back and dedicate a whole collection to to Argentinian craft and used a lot of their their beautiful pampas designs, which is a woven design in their cottons and the belts that they use.

20:32What's that collection called? The Gaucho collection? I think it probably, no, I called it Gaucholandia, which is a play on the word, English word and Spanish word. Fantastic. I shall go into the shop and ask them to show me the Gaucholandia collection, please, if it's still there. So let's talk about food and drink. It's so much part of travel. um what is the best meal you've ever had or what do you like eating or drinking where have you had it let's just talk generally about food and drink and travel yes I've got so many memorable meals but I think probably the most memorable meal that comes to mind is a meal I had at Wolfgat which means um wolf hole and that was in Patanosta in south in South Africa on the west coast um my husband and I were traveling up that coast we were on a bit of a road trip no plan and I'd heard that this was a restaurant that was worth visiting the the chef is a forager of the coastline so there's a lot from the sea all sorts of different sea plants and also the land and all the wine is local and everything is is I think within you know mile radius of the restaurant and we didn't have a booking and they only had four tables but we were so lucky he said go away walk around the village and come back and you might be lucky so we felt incredibly lucky and we stayed there for the afternoon with the sea just lapping up on the edge of this this beautiful terrace it's a tiny restaurant was it delicious Absolutely delicious.

22:12It was a tasting menu. And we had all the local, we had a cloudy beer and cloudy wine, but everything was so delicious. Gosh, how extraordinary. A restaurant with only four tables. That really is incredible, isn't it? I think you might have got six or eight tables now. But worth the visit. Really worth the visit. Also, one of my favourite places in South Africa is the Dorp Hotel in Cape Town. Oh, right. I've been going there for years. I met the owner, it was called Gail Bear, and she built it just before COVID. It's the most incredible place right down in centre of town in the Bo Cup district.

22:59And I always stay there. It feels like home from home for me. I work there quite a lot. I do photo shoots nearly every year there. Oh, do you? Interesting. Yes, you know, trying to get the winter sun into our imagery. And I have a wonderful team from Cape Town who I work with. But when I arrive, I always have their curry in the dining room and it just feels like home. I don't know that hotel. I suppose I haven't been to South Africa since COVID actually. But we have a wonderful hotel in Joburg called the Saxon. and they're opening their estate, which is basically, sorry, now I'm stopping. We have a wonderful hotel in Joburg called the Saxon and they're opening a new safari camp, Shambhala, which is where Nelson Mandela used to live towards the end of this year.

23:50So I shall be visiting. So I will definitely go and look up this hotel in Cape Town because I love Cape Town. It's just fantastic. And the people are wonderful. or the food is wonderful. As you say, you get that winter sun. It's just fabulous. Gail is no longer with us, but the last conversation I had with her, she explained what her vision was for this hotel and it was very much a creative spot. She wanted to create a home for creative souls. She was a creative herself, the most incredible interior designer, and I feel very lucky to have met her. But it's a hotel that is now full of people, either in the film world or the fashion world, writers.

24:31So what is your best insider travel tip? For me, I absolutely love to travel without too much of a plan because I think that you get the best tips about where you're going by talking to people when you get there. So I like to get somewhere and then take a breather and I have a kind of vague idea of what I want to do but I learn along the way. and I think that's how I enjoy travel the most I think many people have written beautifully about the kind of time out of your normal life and how to be mindful when you're doing it there's the Spanish writer Antonio Machado who said wanderer there is no path your footprints are the path.

25:20I think that explains mindfulness so well that people are trying to capture these days. Juan Manuel Serrat, who is a Spanish singer that I met many years ago, he was our next-door neighbor, he used to refer to the same thing or same state of mind as vagabonding, which I love. It's one of my favorite words. It's a wonderful word. And he said it in Spanish. No me siento extranjero en ningún lugar. That means that he doesn't feel like a stranger in any place. And I think that's how I feel when I'm traveling. Don't plan too much. Talk to the locals and be a bit like a vagabond. I love it. That's absolutely wonderful.

26:05Yeah, and don't think too much about the day you're flying home. Just enjoy it while you're there. The power of now. I think we're always chasing the past and the future and we don't live in the now. It's a very important sentiment. And I've now tried to do that even when I'm traveling for business. I used to, when the children were little, I was always having to rush in and rush out and spend a lot of time at the factories, which I've always done and I love doing. And it's so important to the kind of business that I run. I have no middlemen in my manufacturing. I work directly with the factories.

26:39I design on the spot, on the factory floor. we do sampling while I'm there and trials and that's how I think I've I've created such genuine pieces and um um so you do that in business as well yeah so now what I do is I when I'm planning my trip I take some extra days so I'll make sure I I work um over a weekend and during that weekend I'll go and visit somewhere new so I can ask whoever I happen to be talking to one of the factory owners or someone I meet along the way what to do this weekend and sometimes my husband will come down and join me or my daughter will come I think she's coming down with her son next time I go down to to Andalusia and we'll go somewhere different but I can just give you a couple of examples please do once um I was talking to my factory owner who is a big hiker and I was saying we'd like to go on a walk where do you think we should go and um he gave me some tips of somewhere I really wanted to go to in the Sierra Nevada which was around where Gerald Brennan lived who is the writer who wrote um South from Granada I don't know if you've seen the film or read the book that's great book I love it um it's very descriptive and I like I like descriptive writing about the landscape and the culture and the people and so we decided Steve and I that we would go and try and find his house so we walked in the Sierra Nevada around where he lived and that was just during a weekend and I've got wonderful memories of that and we literally planned it on the Friday by the time I picked him up from the airport.

28:32I already knew what we were doing. Because you've spoken to somebody and they told you how... He gave me a couple of routes up a mountain. And so that was the beginning of our walk. And then I realised that we were in Gerald Brennan country. So then we spent some time going to look for his house, which was actually a huge disappointment when we found it. I'm not sure if the original house was still there, but... But still the sentiment was there. It doesn't matter. And you'd read the book and exactly the journey. Yes. And on our walk, that's another thing I must tell you about, delicious meal.

29:05It's amazing when you've done exercise how food tastes so delicious. So we walked up this hill through cows and bulls and among the trees. It was the most incredible walk. And then four hours later, arrived at a refuge for hikers and had the most delicious lentejas, which is lentil stew. Oh, wow. So the lettuce on the pilgrimage. On the pilgrimage. The pilgrimage and then the stew afterwards. It's true. On the hike. It is, yeah. Once you've done some exercise, you've really got a great appetite and you can probably taste it so much better, can't you? Yes, and the fresh air. How wonderful. So that takes us nicely into the next travel secret, which is what is the most poignant trip you've ever had?

29:50So in January last year, I was invited by the owners of Sujan, which is a safari business they have three tented safari camps to investigate closer the kind of the conservation work that they were doing I'm fascinated by conservation and try as much as I possibly can to to get involved in conservation projects around the world and um the sings invited us to three of their camps and with it i it looks amazing that i've seen that with what they do every year those incredible is it for tiger conservation yeah so one of one of this They've got one camp in the Ranthambore Forest that is dedicated to tiger conservation.

30:51And for that, I created a velvet slipper, which we designed with a gold threaded tiger, which wraps around your foot. And we still set it on our website. And a percentage of sales goes straight back to the Ranthambore Forest to the Singh's conservation charity. Conservation charities, exactly. That's absolutely wonderful. And I've seen on Instagram the tours they do every year and it looks absolutely magnificent. Those tented camps look incredible. They are beautiful. They're absolutely beautiful. Each one is so inspired. The design is wonderful. And then they have another camp where you can go for a ride on the Marwari horses that they have there, which we also did, which was wonderful.

31:41and I made a riding boot especially for that camp that we sell again on our website that is a black riding boot with a red trim that was inspired by the Rabari tribe that live in that area and there also I learnt about the incredible work that they've done rewilding the area so that the people and the leopard in that area can live in harmony together it's the most extraordinary work that they've done over the last 10 years I'm full of admiration for them and then the third camp that we also visited which is called the Sarai which means desert we also went to and I think the question was poignant poignant I'll never forget it who should turn up at breakfast but Sting and Trudy Tyler And we spent three wonderful days with them.

32:41And for their arrival, he'd been singing in concert and arrived for a break. And for their arrival, the Sings threw a party on the sand. They lit probably 300 lanterns and invited local musicians to come. I heard and saw them playing this extraordinary, I think it's called the Jew's harp or Jaws harp, but it's a harp that they put in your mouth and ping. Sting was absolutely fascinated by it. And we all stayed up late and had so much fun. So poignant. I'll never forget it. I'm not surprised how wonderful and what great work the things do and their conservation. It's just wonderful. How fabulous.

33:31so yeah I know that you've recently been to Botswana tell us about that trip yes this is something that's been I've been trying to get off the ground for a year I was I noticed that there's been a big trend in the way people are spending their holidays and I'm very pleased to see that a lot of people are choosing riding safaris or horseback riding safaris as they call it in the US. The reason it's exciting is that the environmental footprint is minimal. It's active. And everybody seems to be choosing our boots to go on these holidays. So I noticed it in the business. Everyone seems to be buying our boots to go on these wonderful holidays and so I thought well what fun it would be to take a group of guests of riders to go and do it and so I got in touch with the foots who own Ride Botswana who have been doing it for as long as I've been making boots and they took us on a riding safari and we stayed at a camp called Chattamezzi in the Okavango Delta.

34:45And again, we learned about the environment and the conservation efforts that these amazing people who are in the safari industry do. I have never done a riding holiday like that. I have done one in Switzerland because I grew up in Switzerland and I can't ride I'm the world's worst rider however it was very easy it was sort of trekking it really wasn't but I would absolutely love to do one of these proper riding safaris if I could ride I had Alexandra Tolstoy on the podcast last week and I know that she's one of your PC pioneers so a Penelope Chilvers pioneer yes so what does what is that so PC pioneer is the name that we give to the wonderful women that have represented our brand in so many ways by being adventurous and brave and different and original and to enjoy wearing our product.

35:50Wonderful. So she wears your riding boots when she's doing her riding holidays in Kyrgyzstan. Yes. How fantastic. So that takes us nicely onto the final question, which is I asked you to bring a photograph and tell us about the photograph and how that sums up travel for you. Yeah, so it's a photograph of me in Livingston in Zambia just last week that my husband took of me looking at the local textiles. I was shopping in the local market called Maramba Market in Livingston. Having the time of my life, I was there for about four hours just soaking it up And I'm sure that something that I saw on my travels will inspire a new collection, the next collection, which is the time that I'm at at the moment.

36:37I'm about to start my spring, summer 26 collection. Well, I can't wait to see what that collection is going to be. and it actually sums up your whole travel experiences because you've said go to the markets, do the local, artisan, helps you create. So it really does sum up, that wonderful photo sums up your whole experience in life and in travel. And all I would say to anyone is if you haven't got a pair of Penelope Chilver's boots or espadrilles or shoes, run out now and buy them, either in your wonderful new shop in the Cotswolds, which is beautiful, or obviously in London or online. And it has been a joy and delight to hear your travel secrets.