Shirlie & Martin Kemp | Travelling the World with Wham! and Spandau Ballet

0:00You're listening to Travel Secrets with Tanya Rose, the podcast that shares wisdom for fellow travelers.

0:10Welcome to Travel Secrets with me, Tanya Rose, the podcast showing wisdom for fellow travelers. Each week, I ask my guests to reveal their six travel secrets and the holidays and adventures that surround them. I would just like to say thank you to Mason Rose, the sales and communication agency that represents some of the finest hotels around the world for partnering with Travel Secrets, the podcast. Today, my guests are the dynamic duo, Martin and Shirley Kemp. I am so delighted to meet you. Shirley, you're famed for your backing singing and your dancing in Wham!, as well as many, many other things.

0:47And Martin, well, standout ballet to name but one thing Steve Owen in EastEnders the biggest baddie who was on TV and I love your podcast with Roman FFS I am not going to go into what the abbreviation stands for but your podcast is brilliant well I'm so delighted to have you both here today and I loved your series that you did on Cambodia and Vietnam and then the Basque, traveling around the Basque country. So I'm sure you've got loads and loads of travel tales. Welcome. Well, thank you. It's lovely to be here. It's a funny thing, you know, I think because we both grew up in bands, that you get to travel the world really early on.

1:32And I think we saw a really nice time when it was kind of like in the early 80s there was a huge difference to places that you went to nowadays like places it's quite homogenized you know everywhere you go to any airport in the world and it always looks the same but you're not sure where you are but back in the 80s everywhere was super different if you went to hong kong it looked like it was a kung fu movie it looked like it was deep china or you know and you went to new york and it was so different but nowadays everything has got the same everywhere's got the same shops and everyone's got the same places and it's kind of become homogenized yeah and actually you're so right before you traveled for both of your bands did you grow up traveling i mean was that part of your background no i mean my dad never even had a passport he never left this country so my first holiday i think i was 11 years old and my parents saved up for me to go on a cruise around the greek islands with my best friend so um yeah that was incredible for me like to go on an airplane and what i remember more than anything was smells when you used to travel and i never really liked the smell of europe how much you think the smells was too strong it was i was really affected by smells when i was younger so um was that because the loos didn't flush and it was a lot of drain smell even the smell of spices that i hadn't smelled yeah but you know it's different smells of cooking whereas now as martin says everywhere you go everything smells the same and you're used to it probably as well because if you have a curry yeah here when you go to india you know that smell whereas before you probably were like yeah i hadn't i didn't smell all these spices so that was the first first travel in for me was smell and your parents didn't travel didn't travel at all in fact i ended up taking my mom travel you know when we toured with wham george and andrew would always say bring your mom with your ring and seeing it through her eyes was really lovely because i'd got so blase about travel but to you know have limousines pick her up and uh so that part was was such a gift to my mom i think it was also our parents couldn't afford to travel you know but my holidays were always getting the back of my dad's full popular and it would take two days from london to south end and stopping a lay-by overnight, you know, and that was it.

3:57And the first time we ever went away was when a broad was on a Freddie Laker jet to Benidorm, you know, because it became, all of a sudden, it became affordable. And, you know, my parents never had any money. So for them, that was a huge trip. And for me as well, you know, going abroad on an airplane, it just seemed like a different world. but that's what that whole Freddie Laker, that kind of first cheap airplane flights. Package holidays. Package holidays. That's what they did for everyone. Absolutely. Did you grow up in London? Yeah, in Islington. Oh, North London. So are you a gooner? Yeah, I'm a gooner.

4:34Yeah, I'm proud to say. We're all gooners and so I'm North London but we grew up and it was really poor when we grew up. We never had any money. We had none, to be honest. and so everything was a brand new experience as the years went on. Travelling was always a new experience for me and when I got into the band and I was only 17 in the band when we started travelling around the world, it was, I remember my parents came to the airport to wave us off because they thought it was such a big thing that we were going travelling, that we were on tour. You know, not that we were working, they would literally wave us off in case they never saw us again.

5:13Did you think you were going to be in the band? Yeah, kind of. Yeah, I spent years when I was at school daydreaming that I was going to be Elvis Presley, that I was going to be Keith Richards, that I was going to be in a rock band. And so that was, I think, I spent more time daydreaming about being in a band than I did about geography or history or O-levels. And how about you, Shirley? Did you think you'd be in a band? Well, you know, of our generation, Top of the Pops was the kind of mainstream of finding music and listening to music, seeing your bands. But I loved Pans People. So I would just and I had a lot of brothers and sisters who would be screaming, sit down.

5:57As soon as Pans People came on, my mum had all these chiffon scarves. I would just dance around the living room. I was Pans People. So my dream was to dance on Top of the Pops. And then obviously. You did. That was my. Yeah. So our vision boards were from the TV and really wanting, you know, having that focus on daydreaming. So let's get into your travel secrets. What is the number one destination that you think everyone should go to once in their lifetime? Let me start with Shirley. Okay. One of the best holidays that I've had, George called me, George Michael called me and said, oh listen we're going to um a safari next week are you free can you make it and i said well no i've got roman with me harley's away martin's away so i'll bring roman with you so it's a real spontaneous nothing likes because sometimes if you know you're going away you can get all anxious about what should i do so all of a sudden we are going to lion sands in national kruger park in South Africa.

7:00And I wasn't expecting any kind of fanfare, but it was amazing. We had a private jet and then we arrived and the staff were just so kind and lovely. But I had a moment on this holiday where I just sat on my own on my outside in, there's just a little area with gorgeous trees, but huge views fast views and this elephant just was walking towards me and there's this moment you have as fear but then there was this incredible moment of connection and calm and I've never had that experience I mean I've done a lot of spiritual work and meditation and I've never had a moment like that in my life where I felt so connected to the world the planet the earth all the sensation the mud I could feel everything the sky the earth the trees and even Roman at the end of the holiday said that was one of the best experiences I've ever had because you're up really early and you're out and you're just looking at the wildlife and I just found it as as humans we should connect like that and and look at you know the world as it is I think a safari is a must for everybody yeah and i think it's i always say to anyone especially with with whilst their kids are young enough before they all leave home take them on a safari because it's such a fantastic holiday i agree i agree have you done the safari martin i've never done it no so you need to do it but it's one of those things that is on my list to do one day well we have a new one opening next year in south africa called shambhala and it's where nelson mandela wrote the long walk freedom and it's a completely private camp so i'll send you there next year oh beautiful yeah that's why it's one of those things i always know i've got to get to but i haven't done it yet what's the number one destination you think everyone should go to for me i am i am absolutely addicted to italy uh i have been you know the band were really successful through italy and um you know It was the first place that we ever stopped to play football stadiums.

9:14So we got to see the place really well. And I fell in love with it completely. But I think the best place, the one place that everyone has to see in Italy is Venice. Venice is absolutely breathtaking. It's somewhere completely different. It's almost as if you've been picked up and you land on an alien planet. it so it's a film set which and you can't quite say it takes your breath away and i took shirley there a couple of years ago didn't i and i said this is the one place you have to see italy has the thing about the food as well and the food there is beyond you know you i could sit there and eat all day so it has the two things together which is brilliant you love rome as well don't you I love Rome.

10:00Rome is, I think if I needed to live anywhere in Europe, I would choose Rome. Rome is like a living museum that every corner you turn, there's something incredible to look at. Every space you're in, it's somewhere that something incredible happened. It's a beautiful place. It's one of the best places in the world. It's such a beautiful, and it's the jubilee of hope this year. So loads of people are going to go. So is it a good time to go to Rome or not a good time? I'm not sure, but I think everyone has to go to Rome. You have to go to Rome, but if you want to go this year, there are historical events happening which you can be part of.

10:41Yeah. One of my very favourite restaurants is in Rome. It's called Al Moro. Have you heard of that? No, I don't know. It's right behind the Trevi Fountain, and they wear Pissascio green velvet jackets, and their speciality is spaghetti carbonara, which is the most delicious spaghetti carbonara. And if you ask for more pepper, they kick you out because they're like, we have the best recipe. I'm the same. If I cook something and someone says, can I have some salt, please? I'm like, you haven't even tasted it. I understand that. I think that's... So, Al Morrow, but don't ask for more pepper. Do you know the restaurant Sabatini's?

11:17No. Sabatini's. Sabatini was an old opera singer. And it's a real family restaurant, but it's beautiful. It's well known over there for some of the best food. But they all say that anyway. But he comes out, the opera singer comes out, and he serenades you at his table. And it's just stunning. Oh, I love that. I love a sing song. Yeah, it's just fun. I love that. Sabatini. Sabatini. I was just, last week I did a thing on Madrid, and somebody said to me, well, what's a quirky thing that you do in Madrid? And I said, well, I like this tapas bar where the owner adores Julio Inglesis. And basically everything is Julio, and then you do karaoke and you sing Holyoke Glace of Sons.

11:56It's hysterical. See, I never quite understand Spanish food. I don't quite get it as much. It's very basic. I like a little bit of tapas but when someone says to me, let's go and eat Spanish, I'm never sure what I'm getting. We recently went to the Basque Country and we had some lovely, and now I've forgotten what they're called. Little sandwiches. Yeah, what are they called? Just French bread. It was like a sushi on French bread. But it was so delicious. But I loved it. That was just your elevensies, really. Yeah, you did a program, didn't you? Was it a train going around the bus? No, it was.

12:35We did a piece for one of the newspapers. It was just a travel piece for The Guardian. Yeah. So it's great. You know, it's always lovely to travel and go to somewhere you haven't been. Yeah. And you haven't spent any time in. And I find that the older I get, the more I want to do that. especially like somewhere that gives you a little bit, a little taste of being in town and a little taste of something different like being on the beach. If you can put the two together, then I'm enjoying that. What's your most unexpected travel experience? Well, holidays, not so much, but obviously in the 80s, we traveled a lot and Wham were the first band to ever play in China, the first Western band to ever play in China.

13:20that I did not know what was coming because you didn't have any access to for you know where am I going I'll look it up I'll google it so I think we came from maybe Hawaii we've been in Australia had a little break in Hawaii and then we thought then the China show oh my goodness we arrived in Beijing and the change of energy um that I remember the hotel room saying you need to be in your room by 11 p.m and lights out and I couldn't quite understand what I was reading and I'd known English Chinese food and very different nothing was it I lived off strawberry milkshakes for 10 days it was the most shocking experience and then we went to the great wall of china but it it ups everything upset me in a way that i just thought who's built this wall the amount of lives that have been lost building so it was a culture that i was quite i was really saddened by have you been back since no probably should probably very different now maybe yeah yeah but that was yeah and everything there's a smell of mothballs that to this day i can't bear anything when she came back from china it cost me a fortune in therapy yeah it's the truth when i got back i we were so small in the 80s for travel got back from china i was really like something else happened on that trip that was quite traumatic and I got back and I was like Martin take me to Florida I need to go somewhere brand spanking new so it wasn't just the therapy it was the trip to Florida it was like it was I need to go to I just needed in my head to go to Florida brand spanking new we went to a tennis went to a tennis camp and ate burgers so I was like that's better yeah I just had to readjust everything recalibrate Yeah, I did, yeah.

15:26What about you, Martin? What's an unexpected travel experience you've had? Unexpected? I'm going to go when I was in, I was making a film in Rio and in Brazil. And I was there for about four weeks, but I was working up in the favela. So the favela at that point in Brazil, in Rio, was, there was about 250 ,000 people up there, completely lawless. So there was no police were allowed up there. I saw some of the worst things that I've ever seen in my life happening up there. Kids carrying guns and drugs openly being taken up in the favela while I was there. It was a complete planet unto itself. But I had to go in and out every day.

16:11And one evening, I'd been in all day filming. And I'd been filming part where it's a strange phenomenon that happens every time on a film set when the armorer comes around and he will lay out all these guns that you can use on the film as a prop, you know. So everyone's standing around, all the men are going, yeah, I'm going to have that one. I'll have the Beretta because I know about that one. And you can see the men, their testosterone is just going through the roof. And so anyway, I choose the small one that I can just get in my pocket that's not going to do too much grief to carry around because they're quite heavy.

16:50so we filmed that day and as I'm coming out of the favela on the road that I traveled on over the last month you know and over on that road over the last month I'd seen two dead bodies I'd seen one that was wrapped in barbed wire left by the bus stop sorry about this for your podcast but one was just left naked by the bus stop as well obviously they'd done something wrong and been killed and kicked out that's the sort of place it was so i am coming out of the favela in the car with next to me in the car is uh the uh guy who did the wardrobe so there's me and him in the front seats and uh i'm coming out about four o 'clock in the morning and we stop at a traffic light and as we stop there's two these two guys come towards the car both kind of dressed in rotten old jeans and torn t-shirts and long scraggly hair and i'm sitting coming towards the car and i'm thinking not much about it but it was odd because there was no one else around so they're coming towards the car the next minute they pull out these two giant magnum guns the type that dirty harry would use so they're really long and solid and one goes in through the driver's window to my friend who's the dresser and one comes in my window and it comes right up against my head and he's screaming at me in portuguese this guy he's and i don't know what's going on all i know is i've seen these two bodies earlier in the week and i think i'm next what a strange way to go what a strange way i'm going to be shot in rio and uh so i look at him and after about a couple of minutes i'm thinking i'm gonna have to make a move but my whole body was shaking and because i think i'm gonna be shot any second and uh so but i i get it together and i think i've got to do something because it's just gonna end badly so i've bent down i open the car door and i pushed it open and as i start to push it open he grabs it and he slings it over he grabs me and he puts me face down on top of someone facing the roof of the car.

19:07And I think, hang on, I've not been shot yet, so it's going quite well. So then he pulls me up. He pulls me up, he turns me around and he looks at me in the eye and he goes, Spandau Ballet.

19:24I honestly, I am nearly fainting. and then he pulls out a piece of paper and he says, sign this like an autograph my hand is like all over the gaff, it's like shaking like you've never seen before my mate who's sitting next to me in the car he's in tears, it's just the most bizarre thing and I will tell you what it was it was two plainclothes cops shaking us down but they looked nothing like plainclothes cops, we didn't know about it they were They were shaking us down as we came out of the favela. But in all my life, I have never been so scared. I thought that was the end of my life. Thank God for Spandau Ballet.

20:08It's all I can say. Do you think they knew you were in the Spandau Ballet before? No, no, no, no. And thought they're scared. Spandau were doing quite well in South America at that point. And our pictures were everywhere. And he just took me around and he saw me. Can you believe that? But it was quite, it was a time when the police weren't really on everybody's side. They would plant drugs in your pocket and then ask for a ransom to get you out. So that was going on a lot. Well, that is the most unexpected thing I've ever heard. Yeah, that puts my China trip to shame. My goodness me, wow. Well, thank goodness for Spandau Ballet.

20:45It was an experience. experience what's your most overrated or underrated travel experience or place well I had a new experience this year and I didn't know what to think of it uh we were on a cruise and we we met the boat in Miami I could not believe the size of the ship I had no idea it was going to be that big and it was actually beautiful inside and it had tons of gorgeous restaurants, Japanese, Italian, French. So I was very surprised by that. Norwegian Cruise Line. It's Norwegian Cruise Line, yeah. I was surprised at how classy the restaurants were because I really didn't bring the right wardrobe, really.

21:32I was more casual. So, yeah, I felt a bit underdressed at times. Should have taken nicer clothes. But, yeah, I think the cruise really surprised me how lovely it was. Cruises are quite funny, aren't they, though? Because they do separate it really well. Like, it's a massive, giant hotel that floats around the world. And it is absolutely incredible to look at. But they separate what sort of holiday you're on. If you want a quiet holiday, you can do that. If you want a boisterous one, you can do that. If you want to go to your shows. but if you know if you just want to lay in the sun then you can do that as well so i think they do make a good job i think what's really interesting about cruising is that you can sightsee without having to pack and unpack so you can go to so many different places yeah and see things without the hassle of actually traveling so i think that's a really great thing what was lovely one day we had a private boat meet us off the ship and then we went off to one of the little island private island and that was absolutely my favourite day.

22:37Because a lot of them do that now, don't they? They have their private island where they stop at and they tell you you're in a country but you're not really. You're in a nice little private island. A lovely way to do Croatia is by boat, actually. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, the cruisers that go around the Med. Yeah. I want to do the fjords as well. Yes, and those are great because they're smaller boats, I think, aren't they, that take you in there? And you can't get to those places unless you're by boat. No, that's right, yeah. But I want to do it in the winter when it snows down. Do Norwegian do that?

23:06Yeah, I think so, yeah. And what's your most overrated or underrated? Overrated for me, I'm going to go completely against what Shirley said because I'm going to go South Africa. Because I have a real problem with South Africa when I was down there and it was a beautiful place, don't get me wrong. You know, it looks superb. but some of the poverty that is down there is so in your face I find it really difficult to go out to a restaurant and spend a lot of money in a restaurant that they're asking for the places that you want to go to and then come face to face with the poverty because I don't think they separate it very well I think what I would really dearly love in all those places is to see some of the hotels that are there, the big hotels, putting money into the surrounding areas and making it not just an oasis of beauty in the hotel, but around that area as well.

24:06And I saw more of that, I think, when I was in South Africa. And I haven't been there for a long time, so I might be saying something that used to exist that doesn't anymore. But I would love to see the big hotels put more money into the surrounding areas. and actually um dal stain who was the owner who sadly passed away at the saxon hotel which we look after in joeberg does a lot with the township which is near there so they actually do put money into that and also try and train people to come into hospitality i think probably it's it's changed it's changed a lot since i was there when i went to south africa i loved it because i like the wine and i like the food and i came back and i said to my husband oh i think we should buy a house in South Africa and he went you went to sign a contract with a hotel not buy a bloody house no it's too dangerous we're not going there it's a shame because I think the land in South Africa is is so magical there's something so beautiful about the coastline and obviously the safaris that you can go on and see the vast land and I really connected with South Africa but as as martin said once you come back to cape town because we stayed in cape town afterwards but we did have to have about six security guys live in the house with us it's like jamaica you can't walk from one place to another you have to have security the whole time yeah and i couldn't live anywhere that feels that unsafe yeah when i when i see a um a hotel with an electric fence around it it makes me worry uh and uh and that's uh my honest thing i tell you somewhere i was I found underrated was the first time I ever went skiing I went to Sassfei which is where you went when you did the Ram video that's right yeah and it was so cold because the mountain doesn't ever get sun the other side where Zermatt is gets the sun and I really didn't like Sassfei it completely put me off skiing until a few years later when I was a bit older but tell me about when you made that video there because it's so iconic that video isn't it what's incredible so we made the video I'm nearly 40 years ago and I didn't remember anything about Sassfei because it's you're on this coach you get taken your kids you're told to go and wait there and then we we filmed it and everyone was drinking and the video is quite authentic as it as you see it I mean the director just lost control and let just let us do whatever we wanted and it worked so every Christmas people say tell me what was it like in Sassfei and I'm like I think we're only there three or four days and we were filming so you don't just go off and you know on your own so we were so lucky because this um last year they took us back to sas fey and it was amazing to go back so they made a whole documentary on it last it's called the last christmas um documentary and it was really lovely and we went back and we went back with the car the you know there was a few of us who we were like in our 20s now there we are in our 60s now and we saw the original house on the just amazing so I was very grateful to go back there and the town is really proud I mean there's a monument to George and Wham and there and the mayor the mayor was actually part of the video who's now the mayor of Sassway so it was it was lovely to go back there and see and some we It was the most beautiful parts we didn't get to see.

27:38So I thought it was really charming and very small village atmosphere. Let's go on to food and drinks. Food and drink is so much part of travel. Of course. And we all love eating. We all love drinking. What do you like eating? Where do you like eating? What's your favorite restaurant? What's your favorite drink? Let's just talk about food and drink and travel. Okay, so this is really bad. I don't really have a favorite restaurant. so and I can't even think of anywhere but I do there is south of France I love to go to south of France and I years ago so as George had a house in south France so that's where we used to go with the kids and so I remember the first time I ever went to Club Sank on Sank and it really impressed me that is your favorite restaurant yeah because I love it it's something that kind of took my breath away because I we walked in then you have all the pale blue and white and some of the men were you know these gentlemen with their jumpers are rolled over their shoulder with their pale blue shirts on and I just loved it and Joan Collins always there and honestly I still that's still one of my favorite places because I love being on the beach and it's daytime and is it the tart tatam yes delicious oh my god I love that and the sea bass is fantastic yeah I That is one of my, I like restaurants.

29:03And there's a lot of restaurants along the Pamplona. Yeah. I do love a good lunch on a beach. But we go there more than anywhere else, don't we? Yeah, we do go to Saint-Tropez every year. Yeah, we still go. It's a really lovely little trip, actually, because George Michael used to have a house there that we used to stay at all the time with him. So when we go back on that holiday, we always stay in that hotel that's opposite. What's that called? Yeah, Villa Marie, although I don't want to tell anyone that. It's like the oldest hotel in Saint-Tropez. In Ramatel. And we stay there and it's kind of like, it jogs some nice memories of our time with him there.

29:48So it's always a nice journey there. And what about eating and meals that you've had, Martin, around the world? I am going to say I've been really lucky. No, I've been really lucky, you know, because I've reached a point in my life where I think I've been to so many countries just from touring with the band when I was so young. You know, I mean, I was 17 when I was with the band and the band went on for 10 years. So we probably toured the world three or four times. And so my travel experiences are quite, quite good. and being in a band, you always get taken to the best restaurants, no matter where you go.

30:27They always want to impress, or they did the record companies when they had some money back in the day. But nowadays, it's most probably fish and chips. If you're lucky. Yeah, if you're lucky. But I think out of all the restaurants I've ever been to in the world, the one that stands out in my brain is in me and Shirley went to, which is called The Cliff in the Bahamas. Oh, no, Barbados. Barbados, the cliff. The one that's actually on the cliff. It is the most beautiful setting of a restaurant I have ever been to in my life. If you imagine this horseshoe that is set back in the cliffs and in the horseshoe, if you go at a certain time in the evening, the moon is setting right in the centre and it's just throwing that triangle of light across the sea into the cliff where you're sitting.

31:21and it is the most beautiful place to sit down and have dinner. Yeah. And that for me is, I would say, is one of the best restaurants I've ever been to. Do you go to Barbados a lot? We haven't been there. Funny enough, we holidayed more when the children were younger. And as we've got older, I find just the two of us, I'm never so keen. I'm like, I don't want to go as far. But Pepsi lives in St. Lucia. So her family came from St. Lucia and we got married in St. Lucia. Oh, did you? And then we went back and did our 25th wedding anniversary in St. Lucia. So we are due to go back to St. Lucia because she keeps asking us to come and stay and she's going to sort it all out.

32:04But we haven't really, I wouldn't say we travel as much now. I don't know whether when we were younger we literally traveled so much that you associate it with work. My funniest restaurant experience comes from St. Lucia. when we remember after we just got married and we went to this little restaurant we went to this little restaurant that was on the side of a lake right and the lake looked to me when i walked in it looked kind of stagnant and so but it was a beautiful setting so it was like our evening meal right after we got married on the afternoon in the afternoon and we sat down and i sit down for a little while and then in front of me there was this lady that all obviously spent a long time doing her hair in rollers.

32:52So it was kind of like it had all built up and you could still see the little tunnels like where the rollers had been. And as I sat there during the evening, all of a sudden I looked up and I thought I could see something move. In her hair? Yeah. And there were cockroaches running through her hair, through the tunnels, through the tunnels in her hair. And she didn't even know. And I'm looking at it like, it was all, honestly, it was like I was dripping or something. And then I looked down at the floor and there was this carpet of cockroaches. And the whole of the floor was starting to move and jiggle around, do you remember?

33:35But you just suddenly was invaded. And I just, everyone just shot up out of their chairs screaming. It was like chaos. It was a brilliant comedy sketch. The invasion of the cockroaches. That is horrendous for that poor lady. and for you for your honeymoon. First night dinner. The first night dinner, yeah. Well, you'll never forget it, will you? No, no, absolutely. But Pepsi tells me there's no cockroaches now. But we walked into the restaurant and there was nothing there. But it was a big deal. So did they come from the ceiling or something? I know, a complete invasion. Well, don't go back to that restaurant.

34:05Or maybe go back to the restaurant and just check that it's better now. We have been back since and it's a beautiful place. But it was a funny experience. That's hysterical. Yeah. What's your best insider travel tip? I you know what I used to try organize all the travel I'd do it all myself I think find a great travel agent who will book everything for you in advance book all your restaurants book all your trips have it all organized organization really is is the key isn't it and knowing when everyone says what are we doing what where are we going I'm like it's all been taken care of so for me I like to make sure that everything is booked and organized there's nothing worse than going someone someone's mentioned a restaurant that you should go to that's fully booked oh it's fully booked we should so always pre-book everything there are some amazing travel agents now and they're actually called travel designers oh right um because that's what they do they do like a concierge type service that's right yeah and especially if you're going somewhere like south america or somewhere like that where you need a ground hand you need someone someone to take you yeah that's a really good tip do you have a specific travel agent yeah i've got a guy called Alex Buckle who's the travel guru so he's fantastic and will organize anything that you can if you don't think of something he might think of something for you or advise where you should go brilliant so do you have a top travel tip uh yeah always take your noise cancelling headphones with you so because they are absolutely brilliant on any airplane so that uh you can get some rest in because I always find you know it's all quiet on the airplane but apart from that hum, especially on a long trip.

35:45And noise cancelling headphones gets rid of all that hum. And it's absolutely, they are my, I have to live by those. My tool manager is sitting right next to me. So Shirley has become the tool manager from heaven. She does. Shirley is brilliant at it. And if we ever go away, Shirley organises everything. I have to hold my hands up and say, I don't do that, do I? I mean, because you like to do it. or do you not she's going to say she loves it i loved it no if i did it if i took it yeah i would not give it to you to organize no so so shirley has become my tour manager but i am the world's worst packer i really need to learn how to pack i get really flustered about packing and take the wrong you have a solution you just take everything no because i think you know what well he thinks i take everything i think secretly i love shopping when i go away and buy i i always love to buy something i mean i've gone and bought a whole dinner set when we were in san jupin once and trying to get it on the airplane i love buying things when i travel and take for the home or yeah and say oh that's the memory yeah because i it does give you i mean in the old days you'd get a spoon from a country or a mug or stick a rock.

37:04Yeah, now you just have a whole dinner set. I've actually got all the plates from Sank on Sank. You know, the ones with the shells on that I did buy in that shop. And my husband was the same. He was like, oh, for God's sake, how are we going to get those back home? Do you know what? We bought the little espresso cups. The espresso cups, yeah. Yeah. So we've got the little espresso cups. But, oh, I'm glad. There you go. No, I do the same. But I am the world's worst packer. I travel all over the world. And I hate taking hand luggage because I just can't do it. And Richard E. Grant was on this podcast a few weeks ago and I'm going with him to Istanbul.

37:38And he said he's going to come round to my house and teach me how to pack hand luggage only. Are you videoing? Yes. Or you come over too and you can get a packing lesson. I would like to know about packing. I mean, I know to roll everything up. I know, but I still can't. It's a coordination. Because I look and I think, well, I need about 12 pairs of shoes. Then I have to whittle it down. I learned something really important when you cruise. well when you go cruising right not when you cruise but on a cruise when you go on a cruise is what i noticed was everybody's packs really small right they try and pack into like a rucksack or something like that and when we got on do you remember we were saying where's everybody's luggage what's everybody doing and a lot of people downsize when they cruise because really what do you need yeah but you said everyone was very glamorous so how did they get their glamorous well they can take a few good glamorous things but they also take a lot of shorts and stuff like that so you don't need that much really yeah i'm very bad just if you're going for a week just take a couple of nice dresses well surely you're coming over to mine to see our packing lesson yeah and then we'll we'll be able to do it next time i did try a few weeks ago and it was a disaster i started with one bag i came home with five and i dropped it all over the place and somebody videoed it was yeah Very similar.

38:57But I fear I might get chilly. What if I get chilly in the evenings? Because you never know that evenings in some places can really change. So then I'm also taking... Pashminas. Yeah, like to stay warm. Oh, that's hilarious. Let's go on to your most poignant travel experience. What's your most poignant travel trip or experience? I think it's when Shirley and I got married in Seleucia. It's the moment out of all the times that I've ever traveled in my life, whether it be with a band or all those kind of extravagant holidays that we've ever been on in the past. I think it's when we got married. And there was a moment, Shirley and I got married on a clifftop overlooking the Caribbean, and there was only myself and Shirley and a witness and a lady who said, claimed that she had married us.