Travel Expert Emily FitzRoy | Exploring Italian Cuisine with Stanley Tucci

0:03Welcome to Travel Secrets with me, Tanya Rose, the podcast sharing wisdom for fellow travelers. Each week, I ask my guests to reveal their six travel secrets and the holidays and adventures that surround them. I would just like to say thank you to Mason Rose, the sales and communication agency that represents some of the finest hotels around the world for partnering with Travel Secrets, the podcast.

0:33Today, my guest is my lovely friend, Emily Fitzroy. We have known each other for many, many, many years. Long time. Emily is the founder of Bellini Travel, and you've just celebrated 25 years in business, which is amazing. She specializes in opening doors in Italy that nobody else can open. And what she doesn't know about Italy is honestly not worth knowing about. She is Mrs. Italy. I cannot wait to hear your travel secrets. You have been the person who sourced all the amazing venues for Succession, White Lotus, for Stanley Tucci's Italy program. There's so much you're going to be able to tell us and I cannot wait to hear.

1:16Welcome, lovely Emily. Oh, it's so nice to be here. And your first podcast. I'm very honored. My first and possibly my last podcast. Let's see how it goes. Absolutely not. Before we get into your travel secrets, perhaps you can tell us a little bit about yourself and how travel has impacted the person you've become? Well, first of all, it's really nice to be here. And I grew up, I grew up, I mean, we were all very lucky in our family. I'm one of five children. And we didn't really travel when we were younger. You know, a holiday in the summer would involve piling into a very old Volvo and my parents driving.

1:54I don't know how we fit it in, but anyway, we would drive to the Highlands where mum's half Scottish, so lots of relations up there. And you sort of spend an entire summer building dams and swimming in a loch. But we never went abroad. I remember the midges being so bad. I must have been about 10 and my dad giving me a packet of B &H cigarettes and telling me to sort of go off and smoke them and that would get rid of the midges. So that's like a really early, really inappropriate childhood memory of my summers. And then when I got to about 14, I had what, you know, many of us had when we were younger, which was an Italian exchange.

2:30I think most people have French exchanges and they were always a total disaster apart from me. And I had this wonderful girl called Ginevra who was very left-wing, very beautiful from Milan. And I set off to stay with her, you know, in the summer of, I don't know when it was, 19, it must've been just before 1990. And got to Milan, her dad picked us up, drove us again in an old Volvo up to their house on Lago Maggiore. and he made me at midnight this bowl of spaghetti aglio olio peperoncino and I've never really forgotten it I think my whole life is memories through food but the next morning Giovanni the dad who was this very cool writer in fact we weren't allowed to read his books because they were so full of sex scenes and I still to this day have not read Giovanni Battistini's books he said what do you want to do you know you're here for three weeks where would you like to go and my mum, who was an art historian, had given me this copy of Gombrich's Story of Art, which was like a Bible, it was massive.

3:30And I opened it and I found the Italy section. I said, well, I'd like to see everything. And unbelievably, this poor man put us in the back of the Volvo and spent three weeks driving us around Italy, looking at the most beautiful paintings in the world with us passed out in the back, most of the time, fast asleep. And he was completely amazing. And I never appreciated until about 20 years later quite how lucky I was to have that introduction at such a young age. That's incredible. And remembering things like he drove us all the way to Assisi one day to see the Giotto's in the main cathedral, which are amazing.

4:08And me and Ginevra were in hot pants. So we got to the doors of the dweller and they wouldn't let us in. And, you know, Giovanni sitting on the steps with his hands, you know, his head in his hands and having to go and buy sarongs that we could wrap around our waist. But he was so kind. He was so kind that I've never really forgotten it. And that gave me this great love of Italy. And, you know, I think it was probably the sort of my first introduction into why I want to spend my life working in Italy, which is what I have done now. How amazing. And did that 14-year-old's travel then make you want to go into travel?

4:43I mean, is that? No. So you didn't know that that was really. So how did you get into travel? So Bellini, I mean, my company was set up entirely by mistake. I'd left university and had four very misspent years in the record industry, left very grandly to write a book. And at the same time, the internet was just beginning. So it was sort of 2000. And there was this thing where sort of a lot of posh people thought they'd get really rich really quickly with this newfound internet. And I had two uncles who had come up with the idea that you'd write an online travel guide to Hidden Italy. And for the princely sum of nine quid a year, you could access Hidden Italy.

5:22And their website was called Bellini Travel. And I came in as the researcher and I spent an entire summer looking up the opening times to Santa Maria Novella and I was very diligent. But all that happened is obviously, you know, selling something for nine quid a year, we weren't going to get as rich as we thought. But people had started bringing me up saying, where would you go if you were going to Rome for a weekend or to Venice? And because I'd lived in Rome as a student and I'd lived in Venice as a student, I'd say, well, I really like this. So Bellini grew very slowly, totally by mistake, very organically from that 25 years ago, sitting on the attic of a Taylor studio in Savile Row.

6:04And what happened to the online Bellini travel? Did that just shut its doors? Non-chipu, as the Italians would say. Maybe I should relaunch it at nine quid a year and see if anyone wants to use it. Nine quid a week, maybe. or substack to be i know to be launched i know everyone's saying we should do substack you must but um no so bellini's just grown it's grown and grown and grown and it's so successful and it honestly as i said in the introduction there is nobody who knows italy like you and if i was going to go and i didn't know what to go to or where to go or which restaurants i would call you immediately because you're the cleverest thing that you do is not do what everyone else does you do find those local places that are really special and you do open doors that nobody else can do so I'm sure when you're scouting for you know yes looking for venues and things for the tv shows that you do nobody else would know those ones that you were doing I suppose I think working in Italy the Italians once they trust you and they will open the door for life but it takes a long time to earn that trust and once you've got it you are sorted because they will say you know you'll be talking to someone in Venice saying oh god you know I really need to find this kind of house in Florence they'll say well you know my sister lives in this palazzo and she's got a botticelli in her kitchen as as one does um or it's just chatting to a driver who you know you're having lunch with and you're early for something and you say oh I really need to look for this for someone or I need to find this type of food or this wine and you know the talents are so generous they're so generous and I'm so lucky to be friends with so many well you're so good at it let's go into your travel secrets what is the number one destination you think everyone should go to once in their lifetime hmm I wonder what your answer will be Alaska um Italy obviously Italy um and it's really hard to pick where because I'm usually people always say where's your favorite part of Italy and it's nearly always the place I was last in so I don't have a favorite but there are places that spark huge happiness when I introduced them to new people so Naples you know my grandmother was Neapolitan and married a Scotsman and brought Naples to the borders of Scotland and um I think the first time I went to Naples all my Italian friends this was 20 years ago were like you're going to get murdered they were all from the north of Italy they were terrified Emily you know be very sensible you know don't be silly don't walk around at night take my jewelry and I got there and I was just like I'm home you know everyone on the doorstep looked like my grandmother they drink they eat they have the greatest sense of humor and it's just such a culturally rich vibrant exciting place to be and do you mean Naples itself or do you mean the whole of the Amalfi coast I think um Naples the city itself is absolutely extraordinary and it's a challenging city to get you know get under the skin of so that's what I love showing people but then you know the rest of the Amalfi Coast.

9:09It's the same people, you know, it's the same love of life, love of food, love of simplicity, you know, we don't need much to make us happy. And I think that's what most of my clients find when they go to Italy. And you usually book them into private houses rather than hotels or both? No, it's a huge mixture. I think what's changed is that people are slightly more discreet with their wealth and what they love is they might want to bookend a holiday with two incredible hotels like pasal aqua or the pelicano but in the middle you know no matter how wealthy or well-known you are what people love is actually these little guest houses yeah that you wouldn't normally know about like the one i went to you know i discovered one in the marema last thursday and it was just so nice and it was 200 quid a night yeah so i think that's what that's how travel has changed yes and I had Keely Hawes on this podcast a few weeks ago and she said everybody needs Emily Fitzroy in their life and she was talking about a restaurant that you sent her and Matthew to in Florence yes which was long tables yes and you just talk to whoever is next to you and and I said were the people next to you quite overwhelmed that you were you know they were sitting next to two very famous actors and she said oh no I don't even think they knew we were actors so it's very much whoever gets there and sits down at the table exactly yeah you're so clever about finding things like that and as you know we look after Pasolacro which I think is just beautiful and Pelicano I mean Marie-Louise is one of the cleverest hoteliers as well I think you're and you've just come back from their 25th anniversary yeah I'm slightly broken I've been partying for four days and you know now I'm 50 I can't do it as I used to but it was an amazing party and it was a huge celebration of what she and her family have achieved and how the Pelicano really started yeah but I was just thinking about Paso Lacqua and going in the middle of Covid because Valentina had rung me and said you know we've won you know we got this house in an auction we never thought we were going to get it and going there and actually we brought the succession lot um when we were scouting Lake Como and it was right in the very very deepest darkest times of covid and i think i was given 90 hours to be in italy and the director had called me you know two weeks earlier and said you know we can't find the right locations for these characters and i said well listen come with me and i will show you pretty much most of italy in 90 hours and we did it and it was so funny because obviously you know being covid we were all in separate minivans so we're all in these blacked out minivans so it looked just like seen from succession as we spun our way through we started in Rome and then we went to Tuscany then we went to Florence and then we went up to Alto Adige then we went across to Lake Coma and we got to Lake Coma and I was like you have to meet my friend Valentina because she's just bought this property and all these people would usually probably say no to an invasion from a film crew but anyway we got there and um saw Pasolacro and it was a complete ruin so it's rather amazing now that you know what she's done is incredible incredible it is one of the most beautiful hotels i've ever seen in my life yeah and she's the best host and she's the kindest woman so generous and she looks after everybody i actually saw matthew and keely when i was staying there it was really funny it was the night before the last succession and everyone was thinking who's going to get the gig and obviously that night i watched it and he did i was so wanting to find him for breakfast the next morning and say oh my god but he'd gone by then yeah it was really funny let's go on to your next travel secret what is the most unexpected travel experience you've ever had or place the most unexpected was being very nearly eaten by a black bear in Bhutan um god which apart from Italy is almost the only other place I've been to in the world and um I was very lucky because I had this uncle this amazing uncle who was married to my dad's sister and he trekked into Bhutan in the 50s and ended up writing their constitution and becoming great friends with the royal family so we had this very strong link with this extraordinary kingdom that we'd always been told about and I'd collected stamps from Bhutan they were huge on making stamps they loved stamps the Bhutanese and I had all these stamp books when I was little anyway when I was 21 he said for your birthday I'm going to send you to Bhutan and I remember this I think it was the granddaughter of the king who had a little travel company and this was before any hotels had really opened up there and um she said do you want to go trekking and i said yeah i'll go trekking and um how fit are you and i said well i'm really fit she said okay you're going to do the chomalari himalayan no i think it was the mount everest base camp hike oh my goodness and you know me well but i'm fucking lazy and my idea of getting fit was to walk down kensington church street to a friend's house for dinner for dinner and back up to notting hill gate i think i did it three times anyway thinking I was match ready and for this trek anyway I went on this trek and I was so slow and you'd have these hikers and I had a boyfriend and it was a disaster because he was completely hyperactive and suffering from some form of psychosis so he would literally run up the hills and then they'd wait at the top and then I would catch them up so I was constantly bimbling along these mountain paths on my own and um there was one moment when they wanted me to go ahead of them and anyway we stopped I stopped on my own by a cave and I was probably singing I don't know Xanadu by Lily Newton John and they all came running up and he was crying and hugging me and everyone was crying and hugging me and I was like what's going on and there was a mother bear literally standing next to me and had cubs on the other side of this path and I'd been sort of sitting on the floor smoking a cigarette singing and hadn't noticed so that's probably the most unexpected oh my goodness me you told me another one though you have another unexpected god there's some terrible things I've done in Italy but um I can remember once me and I've got a wonderful driver called Riggers who's become a great friend in Rome and we were early for something we're going to collect a client and driving past Cinecita you know the film studios and I was like I've never been in and so he was like okay Emily and I always sit in the front when I'm with him and he said right get in the back put on some sunglasses pretend you're a famous sector so we drove up to the gate and this really grumpy security guard got out and rigger sort of rolled down the window and said you know hola signora whatever name he made up and we got in and we drove his car into the middle of the roman forum which is what they used for ben her and all the carry-on sets there was no one there because it's about six o 'clock at night and we got out of the car and we had this hilarious time you know because everything's made out of plastic plastic So you can pick up a column and hold it above your head.

16:01So we did this sort of photo shoot and me and Riggers literally holding columns above our heads, straddling Marcus Aurelius' horse. I mean, so that's probably one of the silliest things I've done in Italy. That is absolutely brilliant. That is so funny. Were you banned forever? No, they never caught me. No, very good. I'm sure I'm banned from lots of places. But not that. Chinichita, I'm safe for now. That's so funny. what is your most overrated or you can do underrated if you don't want to be mean I think funnily enough Los Angeles I went I went over because when we finished the White Lotus they very sweetly said do you want to come over for the premiere for the Sicily series and um so I thought okay I'll just go over because I was curious to see what Los Angeles was like and I had so many friends who lived there and at the same time the succession gang rang up and said listen we're filming in LA and we wrap five days before the premiere so come over we can have you know two nights together then we'll go back to New York and then you can go to your premiere and um he was like okay fine I'm gonna go to LA it's all very exciting and I've got a very nice client who will remain nameless but I was having lunch with him the week before I went and he said listen I've just sold my house and it's like the biggest mansion in Beverly Hills do you want to stay there and I was like oh okay and he said you've got one job and he knows me very well he said I've got to go back to LA next week and pack everything up and he said can you just drink the cellar your only job is to drink the cellar so I was like hell yes oh so I landed so I landed in LA and I must got there about six o 'clock rang the set designer the producers everyone I said right meet me in this place at eight o 'clock so there was this sort of invasion of about 30 people and they just wrapped which means the minute you wrap you are up for a party absolutely so anyway we had this massive party on the first night I ended up in a gay nightclub at 5 a.m woke up the next morning going LA's amazing you know I thought everyone went to bed at 5 p.m and it was really boring so they all disappeared back to New York and then I suddenly realized that actually LA is quite lonely and all the things I like to do on holiday which is you know walk the streets talk to people you just can't do no you have to go everywhere in a car and also you know there is such a giant contrast between rich and poor sitting on top of each other so you come out of sunset tower and the tents are up on the street and i just found that very hard to deal with yeah um so la for me was i mean i could see the magic i could see why i have so many friends there but it just wasn't my city and I couldn't find any delicious food which is probably my fault but I'm so greedy and holidays are so much about food yeah and having fun and I think sort of the fact that most people do eat at 6 p.m.

18:56I just couldn't get my head around and they don't party did you drink the wine cellar we drank the whole wine cellar and all the tequila and all the champagne and I think we broke one plate which considering how badly we behaved was very good was pretty impressive I I thought you were going to say, he said, you have one job. I've got to sell the house, so pack it all up. No. Drink the wine cellar. I think I want a friend like that that has a mansion and says, drink the wine cellar. How fabulous. That's great. Oh, that's absolutely brilliant. What a great story. Let's talk about food and drink.

19:25You said you're very greedy and food is everything. I mean, food is so much part of travel. It will probably be impossible for you to tell me your best meal, but perhaps you can tell me a few places that you do go to that you like and that you can recommend to everyone on food and drink. Oh God, I know. I feel like I'm going to offend so many people answering that question. I thought one thing that I, meal that really stands out is we spent the last two summers going to the island of Jura in the Hebrides in August, which is just the most magical place in the whole world. And it's got one road, no policemen, two pubs, a couple of whiskey makers and incredibly nice people living there.

20:08and going out on a boat and diving for scallops, then swimming to shore and building a bonfire and grilling them on a bonfire. I think that was really memorable last year. And likewise, you know, I think it is that thing when you sort of dig up your own bounty. So being in Ponza on my honeymoon, we took this tiny little fishing boat for the day and I can remember the driver and his skipper was the chief of police and the mayor of Ponza. so they argued about politics all day long because they were both one was left and one was very very funny but I can remember the the chief of police diving down and collecting sea urchins and cutting them open and just eating them off the back of his flipper with a bottle of really cold white wine and that was amazing that is just fantastic and actually I know that you've done a lot with Stanley Tucci and Italy and obviously his program and his cooking and And you've had many an evening with him.

21:05So tell us a little bit about places you found for him and people you've introduced him to and the parties and drinking. And let's just talk a little bit about Stanley Tucci's Italy without Stanley here. Well, he's amazing because he's, I think like traveling with Stanley is like being with a very jovial Father Christmas who is adored. I mean, really adored by the Italians. And we've been to little trattorias in the middle of nowhere. I thought no one's gonna have a clue who he is and Emily my Louie and it's very deferential little bit of tears um but he's just wonderful because he's genuinely you know he's as nosy as me he wants to understand how people are making this delicious fish stew he wants to know you know we were in Naples together and the other nice thing about you know traveling with them when they're actually filming is you all have dinner together every evening so the drivers the dps the camera crew everyone's together on one long table and it's just really fun and also you know he is partial to a martini or two as am i my problem being is that usually you know if we go away and we sit next to each other at dinner most evenings i can't remember anything i've said the next morning it's like being with a goldfish you know he could ask me the same thing five nights running and i just wouldn't remember a single thing you're like dory and literally Finding Nemo or whatever her name is.

22:28But no, they're an amazing family as well. And I mean, Fee is the most incredible cook. Oh, they're both good cooks. Unbelievable. And she's the only person I know who will make a lasagna. So she'll make five lasagnas, one being vegetarian, and she'll actually make the pasta for the lasagna, which is unheard of. Oh, wow. So, yeah, she's really good. So we need to get an invitation to their home for a lasagna? Yes, yes. Absolutely. Sunday lunch is a good thing. with places like Venice and Rome I mean can you actually say this is my favorite restaurant in Venice or this would be where I would go in in Rome yes give me a couple of examples I think for Venice the challenge for Venice is that most people will say the food's disgusting in Venice so my huge happiness is saying leave it with me I can get you into Venice in high season and not see another tourist which is one of my really hidden talents but also to these restaurants You know, if you go out into the lagoon to islands that aren't well known, there's a little fishing island called Pellestrina, which is on beyond the Lido.

23:30And there's a fish restaurant right on the sea called Daceleste. And it's where the big tug, you know, the big fishing boats come in and you see them chucking out whatever they caught in the morning. And you sit on this floating dog. And if you're wealthy, you'll come in a river boat. but if you're me what's really fun actually is to get the Vaporetto the Venetian water bus to the Lido when you get on a little bus which trundles through the Lido which is really fun and then that bus gets on a boat and then that gets to Pelestrina so it's more about the journey the journey I think traveling in Italy a lot of holidays are about getting to your destination and not just being there I was in Venice recently because we're doing the opening of Erel next to the Cipriano which is going to be sensational really really will be wonderful I had wonderful meals.

24:17Yeah. I love it. I mean, I went to Alla Madonna, which I love. Oh, it's so good. I really love it. And I went to... Alla Testieri. Testieri, which I loved. It's amazing. Really, really lovely. The only problem with a lot of Italian restaurants is that the lighting is so unkind. You know, you sit under these strobe lights. And I'm always saying to Luca, who owns Alla Testieri, you know, people come here on dates. It's tiny, you know. Yeah, tiny. It's only tables for two. I was like can you not just pull out a candle occasionally because we're all there like sort of glowing in this neon hideous light and I've sent the most amazingly sort of well-known people there who love it and they always go back but it's just he should be a little bit kinder oh that's and did he take any notions or not totally ignored have you got any tips for Rome restaurants I do I do I'm just trying to think I had a really funny weekend there last autumn I went with Jeremy Lee who's that wonderful chef from Crovadis oh yes and my friend Thomas Dina Myers who's the Mexican chef and they didn't really know Rome that well and we had no agenda we just a friend of mine had lent us an apartment and so it was the three of us with Rachel Roddy who's this fantastic food writer who lives in Rome and we had this incredibly funny weekend just sort of showing them all our favorite restaurants and rachel lives in a more working class part of rome called testature where she said right you know meet me i think we met her at the baths of caracalla which these very famous roman ruins and jeremy's this enormous knowledge on ancient rome so he knew all the emperors he knew all the stories who'd murdered who who'd slept with who and she met us outside the entrance to caracalla in her little fiat panda with this enormous magnum of lambrusco which actually can be the most delicious wine in the whole world a sort of chilled bottle of red wine so we went and sat in caracalla and jeremy told us about who got killed here we drank the lambrusco then we went to this little restaurant which is a fish restaurant called i think it's called la forcatella which is in a dusty little side street in testatio and we had this amazing lunch with tiny little fried anchovies and i think the soft shell crabs were in season and puntarelli was in season which this very bitter chicory salad which it's only like a month a year or something yeah and it's the kind of thing you will never make at home because it's so complicated so the restaurant's called la torricella and it's in a tiny side street off the main square in testaccio and i guarantee you will never hear another english voice in there apart from rachel's who lives around the corner how fantastic well that's going on my bucket list yes definitely and i should be going much more to rome so that will be marvellous Oh, good.

26:58When you did White Lotus, obviously a lot of it, most of it was in Sicily, wasn't it? Yes, it was all in Sicily. So in Taramina and around there. And I actually did Spy You in one of the episodes, wasn't it? At the party, the orgy. The orgy. You were an extra, weren't you? That was so exciting. My mother has still not seen that episode. I'm just before the orgy. I'm about five seconds before the orgy kicks off. But what fun. So I wasn't in it. What fun. It was really fun. It was really fun because Mike White said my name. So, well, he said, listen, Emily, you know, we're not paying you a fortune, but I want you to be in the show.

27:36So I flew over to Sicily and realized I was in this orgy. And cut to Tom Hollander introducing me to Jennifer Coolidge as this is my great friend Emily Fitzroy, which meant that a lot of people who watch telly with subtitles, the most unexpected people in my life, and some of the most inappropriate people were ringing me up saying, I just watched you in The White Lotus. Someone rang me last night and she's, you know, the grandmother of a friend of mine. I was like, please just don't watch any more. Stop now. But actually, number two was so good. I really think it was the best one. Jennifer Coolridge was so fun.

28:11I know. And so brilliant. I know. I wish that they'd kept her alive. I know. I was so shocked when she died because they kept it a secret from all of us. And the producer kept ringing me saying, have you watched it? and I took ages to watch the last episode and I was so shocked. She could have been, she should have been in the third one. She was just wonderful. There's one scene when she's all in pink. Yes. And she's on that Vesper. Yes. And then she says, you know, who do you think I look like? And the general manager says Peppa Pig. It's so good. I thought it was the most hilarious thing. My name, as you know, is Tanya and I wear pink all the time and my son just looked at me and he went, hmm.

28:48There we go. He said, oh God, that is so funny. I don't remember who she thought she looked like, but it certainly wasn't. Monica Bellucci. Monica Bellucci. Poor her. Poor her. Let's talk about your most poignant travel experience. I think bringing my two daughters, we've got two girls, to New York for the first time. Because New York, like Naples, makes me feel so alive and so happy. And it's somewhere that me and my husband are equally happy, which is quite rare. because usually if I'm in Italy, you know, I'm very much in charge and dragging them all from A to B and pillar to post. And New York is somewhere where we're all sort of equal.

29:26And we decided to bring our girls. It was about two years ago, and we told them they were going on a kilt-making course in Edinburgh. They're like, really? So anyway, packed their bags, packed their kilts, packed their tartan, got to Heathrow, and I handed over a map of New York and I think a baseball cap or something. And I said, you know, we're going to New York. and they just didn't get it. You know, it took them to arrive in JFK and to be coming in at night and seeing that skyline. And it just blew their minds. And we were very lucky because Carlisle gave me this unbelievably good deal on a really big room, which was very kind of them.

30:06And so every night, my husband and I, you know, we put them to bed with a sitter and say, you know, we'll see you in the morning. And then we nip out and go straight to J.G. Mellons, which is this incredible burger bar around the corner. Have a burger, have, you know, lots of martinis and then come home and they'd be none the wiser. I love the Carlisle. I mean, we looked after the Carlisle for many, many years. I like the pharmacy opposite, Zittemers. Did you go there? Yes, I love American. American Pharmacy is the best. Fantastic pharmacy. I love Cafe Carlisle. I don't know if that was operating when you were there where they used to have Eartha Kitt and Bobby Short and all these amazing jazz pianists.

30:45and then obviously Bedelman's Bar is just fantastic. But it's just so dangerous because the martinis come with the little extras, the extra jug. Or extra drug. Yes, they give you seconds. You get your martini and then Nestling is a little glass carafe of another martini. So how many can you have without standing up? It's a bit like Duke's Hotel in London, isn't it? I think two is my limit. I think they've now got a rule. I think they've got a rule at Duke's. Yeah, I had three and I literally couldn't stand up. No, no, I know, I know. We've all been there. No, I think I've fallen over the bar at JG Mellon's and into the other side.

31:22But they're very nice now, the barmen. They know us. And did your girls just love New York? They just loved it because we did it sort of, yes, they were very lucky because we were at the Carlisle. But then going to Staten Island on the ferry to see the Statue of Liberty, which is free. And you go over on the ferry and it tips that way because everyone rushes to one side to the Statue of Liberty. and then on the way home it tips that way and everyone rushes to see the Statue of Liberty. So we did a lot of it sort of on the cheap and took them on the subway and they had a really amazing time. How old are they?

31:52They are 15 and 12. Oh, perfect. Did you go to Serendipity and have a milkshake? No, but it's all crumbled cookies. Oh, yeah. Fantastic. Everything's fine. And did you go up the Empire State Building? No, we were cheapskates. We went up the Rockefeller. Yeah, much better. Because it's about$200 cheaper. But also, less queues. Amazing. Same view. Absolutely brilliant. the top of the rock charmingly sort of crap at the top like there's a park bench that you sit on which I loved and you've got that picture of the guys on the steel rod yeah it's amazing I love it I always do that I tell people actually that's one of my top table tips I say don't don't go up the Empire State Building go up though it's amazing and we've made such nice friends there I think where I'm so lucky with Bellini is that I've become such good friends with my clients that, you know, after 25 years of organizing their families' holidays and all manner of different holidays for them, you know, you build this relationship so that when you go to New York, they're like, what can we do for you?

32:49Find yourself front row watching the Knicks and the Nets in Madison Square. Did you do that with the girls too? Oh, that's fabulous. I mean, it was amazing. And they sat next to John McEnroe. They didn't have a clue who he was. They're more obsessed with like the complimentary bucket of lobsters. That's so brilliant. It's just such a great city. how lovely what's your top travel tip well my grandmother always said he was near the Neapolitan who moved to Scotland she always said tip on arrival because what's the point of tipping at the end of a holiday you know you've got to start at the beginning and make sure they look after you yes that's a very good tip so that's one and that's a very good tip to tip it's a good tip tip um and then the other suggestion I really feel about much more this year than any is don't book holidays you can't afford because you've seen it you become a bit of a therapist organizing people's holidays and you see people at holiday and you see a lot of the baggage that comes from home comes with them and these poor wives usually who've spent years planning a holiday and at breakfast they're saying right you know we've got the guy coming at 10 and you see the dad looking like I don't want to go with the guide and the kids I don't want to do that I want to eat gelato or I don't know why I'm pretending they're all American but I see these trips and and the pressure to have a good time is so huge that I try to be as kind as possible to everyone we look after and I've always said to everyone who's ever worked for me you know if someone rings to plan a honeymoon often it's the first time a man has ever booked a really expensive holiday they've got no idea how much it costs and if they've got 500 quid to them it's a massive amount of money so I've always really um forced down you know told everyone who worked for me not to be unkind to always say listen you can't I'm not gonna be able to organize your holiday but if it was me I would stay in this little guest house I would do this I would do that and sure enough 25 years later they ring you up and they say I never forgot my honeymoon I'm now a billionaire and can you organize this holiday and it happens all the time it's happened a lot this year and actually it's so right because you don't want to be spending all your money on the best hotel and then not being able to actually do anything else around it and also you don't need to spend a fortune to have a good time in italy you can still get a bottle of spaghetti for eight euro and and it's delicious delicious absolutely no that's those are both very very good tips but i think that tipping at the beginning it's so much better than you get the seats you want you get the tables you get the beach you want to be prima fila you want to be at the front I think my husband's uncle used to do that because we went somewhere recently and my husband did it at the beginning and he said my uncle taught me this years ago.

35:31Very, very good tip. Listen carefully. Listen carefully. I asked you to bring a photograph. Yes. Can you show us the photograph and tell us how that sums up travel for you? So this is, I mean, I could have bought hundreds of photographs of staying in lovely hotels in Italy, which I've been so lucky to do. But actually, this is my grandmother. who was the Neapolitan crook. I adored her. She was very like me. She was a champagne socialist, brilliant feminist, set up the Women of the Year lunch in the 50s. Oh, wow. When there were many women, you know, there weren't very many who worked. So I was surrounded by very amazing women from an early age whenever we went to stay in Scotland.

36:14And she had this little house in Rottingdean in Brighton. Oh, yeah. And for me, that was, you know, my earliest memories were eating fish and chips on the pier with her. in the pouring rain and going to English's, which was this wonderful old oyster bar. And she'd bring her saucepan with her and they'd fill it with moule marignée and then drive me home. And those were the happiest, happiest childhood memories. And that is her. And I think I've still got that red mucking tosh. Oh, that's wonderful. But she had one eye. She looked like a pirate. She had a patch over one eye. And she was very, very funny.

36:49That is fantastic. Why do you call her the crook? She was naughty. She got away with murder. But she was wonderful. Oh, that's so wonderful. I think all her friends would agree. Did she instill a love of travel for you, do you think? Yes. I mean, one of her best friends was Valentina Tereshkova, who's the first woman in space. Oh, amazing. And general of the KGB in Russia. It's quite a frightening woman. And I can remember her taking all these amazing people, including my mum off to Russia in the 80s, which is quite, you know, a bold thing to do. And she loved the sunshine. She was always topless.

37:28When she moved to Scotland, she was always topless. And she had a straw hat that she'd stolen off a donkey on a beach. So she'd sit with this straw hat and her boobs out. And she had a little hut in the garden with a wheel at the back. And I remember I was always wheeling the sun, no, the hut round so that it got the sunlight and chatting to her in that hut. Oh, that's fantastic. Fantastic. Oh, she sounds like an amazing woman. So thank you for bringing that photograph. That is just brilliant. So before I let you go, what's next for Bellini travel? And what's next for you? Where are you going?

38:00Oh, my God. Well, Bellini, I mean, the thing about Italy is there is always going to be somewhere new. There are so many places I haven't been to. I was talking to a friend last week, and I'd like to go to Livorno, which is this very industrial fishing town on the Tuscan coast. But they make a buia base like they do in Marseille called the Caccius. Chukko, which takes three days to make. And it's got all these old bathing establishments and everything's slightly falling to bits. A bit like Genoa, a bit like Naples. So I'd like to go there. But I've also, I turned 50 in December and I've decided I'm going to try and walk the southwest coast of England in my fifth decade.

38:39And it's 680 miles. Wow. I've done five. You better start training. I'm so lazy. But I think as long as I know there's a pub with good food at the end of each day. You can do 10 miles one day and then another. That's what I think. At least it won't be your Kensington Church Street to Notting Hill, which was your training for base camp Everest, which is the most brilliant thing. Oh, that's absolutely wonderful. Emily, it's been so much fun. You have given us so many fantastic travel tips. And as I said at the beginning, everyone needs Emily Fitzroy in their life. If you need anything for Italy, she opens doors that no one else can.

39:18and it's been wonderful to talk to you. Thank you for coming. Oh, thank you for having me.