Travel Secrets LIVE! | Amber Nuttall on How We Can Lend Our Voice to the Environment

0:00You're listening to Travel Secrets with Tanya Rose, the podcast that shares wisdom for fellow world for partnering with Travel Secrets, the podcast. Today is our very first live podcast broadcast. So exciting. And we're broadcasting from Extreme Hangout to celebrate World Climate Action Week. And my guest today is my lovely friend, Amber Nuttall. Amber is an environmentalist, ex-chef, adventurer, comms expert, founder of Xtreme Hangout, co-chair of the Bahamas Reef Education Foundation. She has traveled far and wide, and I cannot wait to hear her travel secrets, as well as her bugbears, about what she hates in travel.

1:12Welcome, lovely Amber. Thank you so much for having me. This is a delight, and also one of those moments where I don't normally speak on my stage but you have got me here because if there is one thing in world I love it is travel. Well I'm absolutely delighted and although we know each other well I don't really know your travel tales so before we get into your travel secrets perhaps you can tell us a bit about yourself how travel has impacted the person that you've become and how you have got to where you are today well I mean it literally started from day dot almost I found in in a box of stuff after my mother died which was great hoarder um a little British Airways certificate booklet that looked rather ancient and opened it up and it said 29th of January 1977 1997 uh london heathrow to nairobi and was signed by a pilot um and my name was at the top of this little certificate and how old were you then i was born on the 12th of january so i was two and a half weeks old and my first trip was to nairobi wow your mother was very brave um well i grew up with two completely bonkers, utterly wonderful parents who believed that anything was possible, including traveling the world with their children in tow.

2:43I hear far too often to my way of thinking that, oh, I can't have children because I want to travel or I might have one child or two maximum, but you could never travel with children otherwise. And I sit there and go, that was not my lived experience. my lived experience was parents a bazillion suitcases and off we all went together um and i love it and still to this day i love nothing more than traveling with my mad horde family um and uh we all have the best giggles together um it always makes me think of ski lifts because um after nairobi we then dotted around rather madly for quite a number of years but my uh parents rather extravagantly settled between the Bahamas and Switzerland um and uh to go to my ski lift point it's one of my happiest places on God's earth is being on a ski lift with my siblings how lovely because we just laugh and we all just laugh so fun and I can remember the last time we did it there were four of us sitting I mean chairlifts have got so wide now you can fit bazillion people on them um and we just sat there and i thought the thing was going to fall off because we were laughing so much um so that's one of my happy places did you grow up in gestard yeah yeah so did i i think that's where we first met each other yes you were at rosé weren't you i did go to the rosé yes yeah and our chalet was literally right opposite chalet bambi so i didn't yes okay exactly and ours was just over the other side of the railway the big railway bridge as you look up out of town i mean what a completely beautiful place so special the seven valleys Sibundal in fact that was the name of our chalet um uh it is it's a place I don't get to go back to very often now um but I got to know those hills and those mountains and swimming in the cold lakes and exploring the waterfalls and hiking in the summer and my favorite time in the switzerland swiss mountains is the summer so in the wonderful rivers that are so cold that you do you know cold water swimming which everyone does now we were doing years ago and I also went to Gordonstone which is where your your husband went to school so I was shipped off to Gordonstone for outward bound there and then in the summer I was hiking in the mountains so it was a very lovely way to grow up actually and and then for me it it's so easy that translation to exploring the world in in those sorts of ways and getting to know nature and outdoors and in fact not seeing yourself as separate for it that was just my life and that's the way I've always felt it so it's not really surprising I do what I do absolutely so let's get into your travel secrets what's the number one destination you think everyone should go to once in their lifetime um so for me that's a really easy uh it's an easy one it is the Bahamas um and the Bahamas is it's so unique every country is unique of course it is um it's not one island we've got over 750 islands there are 16 of them that are inhabited though um and every single one is different it's rather like wearing the most extraordinary necklace with just a different stone to represent each of those islands they're utterly unique um if you ever have the chance to have a conversation with an astronaut i would like you to ask the astronaut what their favorite view of planet earth is from the international space station because i've met a few now and they all say the same thing the bahamas yeah do they how interesting um bahamar shallow seas so christopher columbus um came across those islands and um he was so intoxicated by what he saw his diaries are apparently completely wonderful i long to read them um uh one of the things that he talks about is not being able to sleep at night because of the sounds of turtle shells hitting the hull the wooden hull of the boats as they went through the water because they were so prolific so abundant now we cannot possibly begin to imagine that now um uh but uh yeah i mean it is it is the island of shallow seas um so we've got wonderful extraordinary atlantic coastline along islands like uh uh eleusora 101 miles long and as widest point it's a mile wide so it's sort of crazy skinny uh long sort of snake-like island that runs down and from one side of the coast the atlantic to the caribbean side the shallow turquoise unbelievably clear waters you don't even need to dive you don't even need to dive you can just snorkel and see everything can't you completely really beautiful no they're it's extraordinary um islands and my greatest joy is uh once you get off the main islands they call them the out islands um and it's like being on sort of safari in africa because you feel that depth of wilderness and sort of untouched um and uh we have beautiful coral reefs we've got 30 percent of the world's seagrass which the nursery is for sharks and turtles and so you you can see extraordinary um tell us a bit about the foundation that you run you're co-chair of um yes i'm co-chair of the bahamas reef environment educational foundation which was started by my dad um he was responsible for creating one of the earliest marine protected areas in the world in the bahamas and that led to the creation of this foundation um and uh yeah we have been teaching kids to swim because you're never going to protect what you don't love and you're never going to love something unless you know it um and the way of course we're all interested uh introduced to the sea is is by hopping on into it but so many bohemian kids don't have that opportunity anymore um with the development particularly of uh new providence which is nassau the capital um i think only about four percent of the beaches are accessible now to local people so they're all taken over either by major private gated communities or hotels.

9:18So Bahamians then have to pay in order to be able to access that beach and so a lot of kids don't know how to swim. So that's one of the things that you do. So that is one of the major things we do but we also do we do training programs for teachers we work very closely with the politicians and the legislators in the Bahamas and we also do workshops with the Bahamian Defence Force as well because if you're stopping a boat and it might be a drug seizure but they may also have been illegally shark fishing or catching the Nassau grouper out of season or crawfish or something like that so I know that one of the things that's the bane of your life are the cruise ships coming in aren't they yeah i don't love cruise ships i love the idea of loving cruise ships because i'd love to go to antarctica i would love i mean there are many places that i would like to go to but i've seen what it's done for um uh or to the bahamas um and of course there are some people that benefit from it but it sure as hell isn't everybody and when you think of 85 percent of the tourism who come to the bahamas come on a cruise ship and they only generate 15 % of the revenue because the cruise ships have so many shops on board and restaurants and it's all, you sort of, you get your bracelet and that's it.

10:39You never have to pay for anything at all. And so then they come into town and nobody spends any money. Interesting. And the Bay Street, our beautiful main street in Nassau is dead. It's boarded up. There's nothing left there. Shame. We have to change that. So challenge and opportunity. Absolutely. in everything we do always what is your most unexpected travel experience or place do you know as you know what will make and makes most people laugh is i travel everywhere with my passport because i'm always waiting for that moment that somebody goes we gotta go like yes i'm ready i'm ready to go alice is like you're gonna lose it i'm like i still haven't and it is literally in my bag I have it here with me um so I'm always ready for an unexpected travel experience I think probably uh it was certainly very unexpected for my parents um at the age of 19 I'd sort of I'd left school um I wasn't really sure what I was going to do I wasn't terribly good at school um and uh I think after sort of sitting around at home for a bit my mother's like well maybe what about you actually just go and travel and I'm like genius idea and I just finished a Wilbur Smith book and it was called Elephant Song and of course Elephant Song is set in Zimbabwe and I potted into my mother's room the next morning and I said it's cool mama I'm off on Tuesday and I've got my ticket great she said darling where are you going I said I'm going to Zimbabwe my mother was like what my goodness you cannot possibly go there um and so she had an absolute high near over it um but my stepfather very sweetly leapt in and said oh there's this man I know uh in Zimbabwe I think he's quite cool his name is Patrick Mavros oh wow um uh don't worry Miranda um we'll see if if uh if Patrick can sort of be prepared for your daughter descending on Zimbabwe.

12:50And I remember so well, whenever you fly south to the African continent, whenever you fly south anywhere, if you're on an overnight flight, always ask for the window seat on the left-hand side of the aircraft. Because when the sun comes up, you get dawn, and dawn over the African continent is more beautiful and I don't know why it is more beautiful than anything else in the world. And I just remember seeing that dawn and the British Airways flight when British Airways were still flying into Harare touchdown and the doors open and that heat comes in. But it was the heat, it was also the smell as well.

13:36And I literally felt like my bones had gone home. and I have a deep deep love of southern Africa in particular I love all the places I've been to in Africa but southern Africa in particular and it kick-started in Zim and the Mavros has sweetly had me to stay for a while and then Patrick's like Amber you've got to go on a canoe safari so I was like cool Patrick that sounds great luckily I didn't have a cell phone in those days because if I told my mother I was going on a canoe safari a whole trip would have been called off the SAS would have been sent in everything would have gone wrong um so uh I went up to Manapools on the Zambezi and I paddled in a little canoe from Manapools to Kanemba over the course of a week and they stopped this particular safari because it was too dangerous because too many tourists got eaten by crocodiles or hippos and hippos because they roll the boats don't they?

14:39There was a canoe, I've got a photograph of it in my photo album and you can see where the hippo has done that in the middle of it and completely shattered this canoe. Those people apparently were fine but no I had a run-in with a hippo, I had a run-in with oh my canoe nearly got flipped by a crocodile. I just remember the guide screaming at me don't get out and I'm like I'm not getting out there was no way I was getting out I was staying in that canoe because I was not getting into the water of the crocodile of course I wasn't going to get out oh my god it was mad it was the first time I ever drank whiskey in my life it was 10 o 'clock in the morning so we got out a little bit further down and I was shaking so much I didn't actually I sort of was that over theatrical type of shake I was literally shaking that much anyway he gave me a large glass of scotch I was very grateful for it well that's certainly an unexpected tale that's certainly unexpected how extraordinary what's your most overrated or underrated you can say underrated or overrated whichever you prefer underrated British coastline um so after lockdown um about well that sort of summer in the middle of lockdown actually we all obviously had cabin fever and Alistair and I live not very far from the Solent and we're like maybe we could charter a sailing boat and we did and we could actually find one quite easily at that point and neither of us had a huge amount of experience on sailing boats but anyway we did manage to take this sailing boat out and we became quite competent through necessity more than anything else but I rather fell in love with the Solent um and the Beaulieu River and Chichester Harbour and Pool Harbour and you're just like whoa oh my goodness I've spent so much time trying to leave the UK and travel to exotic places but my god our coast is so glorious and then in fact the following summer um we charted another boat and we sailed the whole way down to the Silly Isles and we took two weeks and so we popped into sort of Durdle Door and Lulworth Cove and we went to um Solcombe and the Fowl Estuary and St.

17:09Mawes and dolphins I cannot tell you how many pods of dolphins that we saw and um my little dogs who are asleep at my feet right now um they love dolphins oh how sweet and they would run to the edge of the boat and the dolphins would be jumping and the dogs would be barking it was how beautifully magical oh that was a really glorious trip and the sea down the sillies we went swimming with seals and he just boy do you have to put on a wetsuit yowls is chilly that water and i'm i quite like a cold water swim but that is quite nippy um and you can go and swim in these sort of kelp forests and these little seals come peering at your mask amazing um and my husband has the lungs of a blue whale mine are not as impressive as that i think i'm a sort of more whale calf like capacity um but it's very special spending time underwater with these extraordinary creatures well he must be used to it from gordonstone because we used to have to jump into the north sea every year when we went on our cruise and i have never felt cold like it was like a cartoon you jumped into the water and you were already up the ladder and i remember one south american boy was really showing off and he went to the top and he dived in and by the time he actually swam back he had hypothermia and we were all laughing and we were so mean but it was so funny well you do get used to it i mean i'm just recently back from the bahamas and you sort of have to re-acclimatize yourself to cold water i my shower at home is only set on cold is it i well i learned i learned this through covid because I really struggled.

18:46I lost my mother two days before COVID started. My old nanny, gorgeous nan, she died two months before my mother. So when COVID kicked in, I was really a bit miserable. And then we were locked away from your family. And after a bit, I read Wim Hof's book. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God, I love book reading. That's another reason to travel because you get to read more books when you go away from home. um so i read vim hoff's book and i was like right that's it hell we're going swimming and he was like oh god i did this at gordon's do i have to do this cold water swimming um but of course you always have to swim with somebody else when you're doing cold water swimming and um it clears my mind it was my lunch break and it just became my mental break as well straight into the cold water and it just resets you completely do you wash your hair in cold water as well i can't get the soap out no i did that i did that for five years at school and honestly when they i go to the hairdresser now they said you want a cold rinse i say no thank you i've done that five years of my life i don't need to do that again see i will i'll have the cold rinse but you can't get the soap out of this wig without let's go on to food and drink food and drink is so important in travel yeah it's important in our lives what do you like eating where do you eat what do you not like eating let's just talk about food and drink i'm mostly vegetarian i did go vegan for a while all because of planetary issues um and then the more i learned about uh farming methods and regenerative agriculture and started to understand the roles of animals on the land i was like ah okay so that i've allowed myself back to 99 vegetarian um very occasionally i do eat a little bit of meat I don't eat fish at all because I do so much work in marine conservation.

20:40And it's just easier unless I've actually caught it myself. And I'm not really that inclined to do that. So I just genuinely don't eat it. But Mediterranean coastline, my mother lived in the south of France the last 12 years of her life. And we'd often visited there before. Oh, my God, those markets, the croissants. Nobody makes croissants like it over here. I'm sorry. but they don't um and then italy and my older sister tamara married gorgeous italian and i have a divine italian nephew um and i would go and stay with them uh in their country house um on over towards the adriatic side sort of parallel with rome um and i remember lorenzo coming to me one day with a peach that he'd just taken from the tree and the garden but it was delicious you know what I don't know my sort of memory my my teeth memory my dental memory of a peach really is you bite into it and something cold and hard and I bit into this peach and it was warm and the flavor was I mean literally stunning I almost didn't know what to do with it amazing and I sort of I remember sort of walking around the garden like sort of cherishing this extraordinary piece of fruit and I when you said I was a chef I absolutely love food in case you can't tell just by how expressive I'm being about it um but when you get just those ingredients which have I mean tomatoes in that part of the world too they just taste completely different and they might look a bit sort of green and maybe not perfectly red who gives a monkeys but they taste they taste unbelievable are you still a chef do you still cook um i do cook a lot um and yeah i mean my poor stepchildren i was always like no i won't buy you biscuits in the supermarket if you want them we gotta cook them um and then one of our in fact i think the kids will tell you it's their best holiday we've ever went on so we charted a catamaran um in sicily and we sailed to the aeolian islands yeah beautiful and we spent a week cruising around there and when i told them on the plane i'm like we're going somewhere and you're going to see a live volcano and the kids are like yeah sure you are and they and that was one of my favorite moments they're literally sitting there with their eyes out on stalks with etna and stromboli stromboli such a great word but the Italians make the best words.

23:23And at night as it gets dark, because during the day you can sort of see a bit of smoke, but it's at night that you get the red because you don't see the red during the day. And it's spectacular. So the kids were kind of like, wow, this is amazing. And actually there's a food link to that one too because some lovely local fishermen there. And this guy was just out of a sort of Italian kind of picture book. quite large rather hairy big beard i mean he looked like a proper fisherman and he'd be there sort of shouting in italian and gesticulating the way all italians do um and he'd have wonderful fish on the dock in the morning and we'd sort of pop into panarea to go and collect supplies or whatever um and he had this great squid there the first day and the kids were like and i was like i am not allowing you to think that of a squid not possible so it's like right have some of those the kids like oh gross i'm not gonna touch it don't want to eat it took them back to the boat um and i was like right everybody and it was another family wonderful poulain so we're with us there as well i've said right in your swimsuits so we can clean you off afterwards but i'm going to teach you how to clean a squid and we're going to make calamari fritti and they're like but we love calamari fritti and i'm like this is what it comes from this is what it is so i taught them that on like our first day that well that was it we ate calamari fritti solidly for the entire holiday because we kept having to go back and see this wonderful crazy italian and buy squid from him that's amazing how wonderful so they're very good squid cleaners now and very well educated on the food front as well and making their own biscuits It's fantastic.

25:11What is your top travel tip? And it can be your bugbear. Well, I think the sitting by the airplane window. And actually, for me, that doesn't matter where you're going and what time of year it is, or even if it's a night flight. I have seen some beautiful nights flying. I'm always rather jealous of the pilots, actually. Yeah, they're the best of you. I mean, I hope they're looking at the dials as well. But I reckon they also get some pretty darn good stargazing in there, too. Um, actually, yes. Funnily enough, I think one of my top tips for travel is to go and sit outside at night. And if that involves lots of blankets, so be it.

25:50Um, but the world comes to light in a completely different way at night. Um, I have a very, very special place that I visit in Sri Lanka. Um, I say I visit like I go there the whole time. I've been there three times. Um, it's called Sen Wellness, and there's very extraordinary and dear people who run it, Sam and his brother. And Sam's my osteopath here in London, and him and his brother have been this place in Sri Lanka. It's where they're from. And it is on a wild beach, and there are turtles who come and nest at night. And if you're lucky, you see the hatchlings as well.

26:36and one of my favorite things to do is to go and walk on the beach as just after sunset and the bats come out and I remember seeing something flying down the beach and thinking oh there's a heron it's going to bed late and I was like oh my god that is not a heron it's a bat and its wingspan was extraordinary amazing um and the other thing which I think is completely magical about um Sri Lanka is uh the signs along the motorways for peacocks because like they've got to be joking and in fact they've got peacocks everywhere because of course that's where they come from um and so it says beware of the peacocks crossing yes um and then you've got sort of Yala National Park which you can go to too but Sen Wellness is um just to go back to that because I'll always drift off to wildlife ultimately um but it's a it's an Ayurvedic retreat center they wake you up at dawn and you do yoga and then you have incredible food and at a sharing table um and then all these wonderful people who give you ayurvedic treatments and you can read books and you can walk for miles down beaches and um it is for me it was well the first time i went i literally came away feeling like 10 year old me back on the beach in the Bahamas my healthiest happiest version of myself and Sam and Sen Wellness have given that back to me that ability to re uh to re-find 10 year old me which was the most precious thing in the world and I think it's so much to do with the people the culture um uh the thousands of years old sort of ayurvedic practices um but it's also the wilderness um getting back to food it's yeah it's a really really super special place and your friend that we were talking to earlier said it had changed his life too so i i'm going to put that on my bucket list definitely and i'm going to meet sam when he's in london he sounds like a real healer amazing he's a very very special extraordinary human being when we were talking about top travel tips you were telling me about all your apps they are very useful so can you tell us a little bit about the apps that you have on your phone yeah I mean I use them at home as well um but I've got one that will tell me about plants um and that one I became fascinated with when I went to Buenos Aires um for uh actually it was a C40 summit which is a global mayoral summit and we were invited to go um uh with our sort of environmental hat on as extreme hangout and it was being hosted in Buenos Aires and I don't know um who else has been there but the trees in that city are quite extraordinary and I've traveled to many different places and of course I know there are different trees in that in every country around the world but the trees in Buenos Aires are just something else so I was like I needed to know what these trees were so of course then you can get these apps and you take a picture and it tells you what they are and I love knowing that um I was walking in the Swiss Alps because I was in the closest forum last week um and taking pictures of all the different wildflowers uh along the way before we jumped into our cold water um alpine lake oh my god it was so beautiful um and then uh which is the other one that i have bird song so i was at the biodiversity cop in columbia last year i mean columbian bird life hello if you like birds you gotta go to columbia um and i just remember waking up at sort of dawn and i was like this is ridiculous and i don't recognize one single one of them so you just do that with the app and it's like amazing birds coming off but i like having that connection with place and i adore the fact that there are brilliant people far wiser than me who've got these technological abilities who are helping to bring nature and my understanding of them back into my life.

30:43We'll definitely put that in the chat because it's very useful for people when they're doing trips to then download those. Yes. That would be fantastic. 100%. Let's go on to your most poignant memory.

30:56So that one I think is probably, we're back to the Bahamas. When my father died in 2007 and we had a memorial service where he died here in um in England um and was buried back at this old family home in Leicestershire but we had to obviously do something to celebrate him and his work um back in the Bahamas so actually sadly that was the last time me and all of my brothers and sisters and everybody were all together back out there we need to do that again um and uh well, organizing a memorial, obviously quite stressful. And so I can't remember who sort of said, right, I think we ought to give my stepmother a bit of breathing space.

31:41Everybody out of the house. So, of course, we all marched off to our favorite beach and went for a walk on this beach. And as we were coming back, there were lots of kids sort of in the water and they were pointing and you could see there was something moving in the water. and we were like crikey what is that anyway so i jogged on a bit to just go and see what it was that they were getting involved in and there was a huge manta ray and manta rays can have a wingspan of sort of i mean three meters even more um and it was enormous and they're also ocean going fish They do not live in the shallows.

32:25So it was very weird to see it there. And one of the kids had a mask on his head because they were all just pointing at it and standing well back from it. So I asked if I could borrow the mask. So I popped the mask on. I stuck my head under the water. And this poor creature was wrapped in fishing line with all these hooks embedded in its body. And so I yelled at my brother. and we were near a sort of beach bar. So he went up there and he grabbed a knife and he came back down. And do you know, when we took hold of this animal, I had no idea what it was going to do. I do know that manta rays don't hurt.

33:09They don't have teeth. They don't sting. So I was like, I mean, if I get knocked over, I get knocked over, but let's see what we can do for it. Anyway, so we started to cut the fishing line. And do you know what? It just stopped moving completely. and it stayed suspended in the water and let us take and with each hook that was coming out you were just removing flesh from this poor creature and we unwound all of this fishing line from this ray and it then you could tell when it was free and it swam and it did a big circle and came back round and then just headed back out. And because of all the work that my father did in marine conservation and on the afternoon of his memorial service, I was like, okay.

33:59That's a lovely story. I hear you. I get that. That's a really, really lovely story. Oh, it's just beautiful. Before I let you go, I asked you to bring a photograph that sums up travel for you. Can you show me the photograph or just describe the photograph for me and tell me why it sums up travel for you. I think I showed it to you very briefly before, but there you go. There's muggins. Beautiful. Sitting next to an airplane window. And I, listen, I'm so spoiled because I have had such great opportunity to travel.

34:37But I hope that I'm doing the best that I possibly could with it. I have the soul of a nomad for sure. And I am so deeply enamored with this crazy little blue marble that we're whizzing through space on and all of the extraordinary wildlife, but also people and their cultures and their heritage and all the color and vibrancy and our ability to have joy and to celebrate and to, I don't know. You're doing a marvellous job. I love all of it. That's a lovely photograph. When I sit next to my plane windows, I just always get so excited. I'm the worst going into the Bahamas. I'm like almost sobbing as the plane's coming in.

35:28But there's something so cool about you get on your flight from London and it's grey and raining and freezing cold. And 10 hours later, through some genius, you are coming in over those shallow seas with popping turquoise waters and glorious sunshine and pineapples and coconuts and pink sand beaches they are pink sands so fantastic and what is next for you where are you going tell us what you're doing with the environment what you're doing with the extreme hangout and where are you going next well i um i did pop there at the end of last year because the way that they run the big cop conferences the big climate conferences each year is it's on a different continent each time around so actually i'm getting to visit a whole bunch of places that i never would have gone to um azerbaijan last year wasn't necessarily towards the top of my travel list but wow extraordinary place um this year it's in brazil in the city of Belén um which is the gateway to the river Amazon so I popped in there already to go and do a bit of a recce and I'm really looking forward to spending a bit more time I've been to Ecuador previously and I had a wonderful experience in the Amazon but that's sort of the headwaters of the river Amazon so now I'm going to be deeply in where the Amazon river stretches so wide you cannot see from one bank to another um so that is um that's extraordinary and I can't finish the podcast without just saying I've also been to the Galapagos Islands but that is for another day that's for another day but before I let you go are we making a difference yes we are um and it's storytelling that makes a difference uh which is why I'm a huge fan of podcasts um and I'm a huge fan of what these weeks like a London climate week or a New York climate week do and for people in every world and we've got it happening at the extreme hangout this week we've farmers speaking on our stage and health practitioners and fashionistas and all different areas of life travel industry but we can all lend our voice to the environment and to celebrate the bits that we love we don't always have to go down the doom and gloom trail the whole time um because uh we lose our humanity i think if we do that and we need to remind people of what all the joy is about actually we're kind of special i mean i don't know anyone else who gets to live on a planet somewhere and be as aware of it as we are and celebrate we could trade it we could definitely treat it a bit better.

38:17It has been a joy and a delight as I knew it would be to go around the world with you, hear your travel secrets and thank you very much for doing this. Well thank you very much for having me, I loved it. Enjoy. They've been so good. If my dog had been here it would have been a disaster. They come on a lot of my travels with me. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Travel Secrets. I'm loving making this podcast and want it to reach as many people as possible to build this community of fellow travellers so please do subscribe on your favourite podcast app and share with a friend I'll be back next week and remember this podcast might not change your life but it might just change your plans

39:13Thank you.