Graham Linehan: Arrested for Trans Tweets

24:52Francis Foster:I'm not dismissing any of that. I'm not saying the entire battle, every single element of every single issue of this battle has been won. What I'm saying is saying that trans people, saying that male people should not be in female bathrooms, I don't think it is any longer a controversial statement. No. It was at one point and it now no longer is. And yeah, that is exactly what you were arrested for. So what was that about? As I say, I just think that it's not quite as dead as you think it is. It's not quite as - You think they're still trying to keep the lid on it? Yeah, yeah. I mean, one of the things I've discovered from fighting trans activists is that they are endlessly vindictive.

25:38And because a lot of them are narcissists, they simply won't stop until they feel they've destroyed you adequately. You know, it's like a constant, constant war of attrition. So whenever you hurt them, they have to hurt you a million times harder back. And, you know, they won't stop. In fact, in some ways, we're at the most dangerous period. You know, I think Charlie Kirk getting shot is an example of this, you know. They are losing, I agree. A lot of the things that they made unsayable, people are realizing, Oh, hang on a sec, they're not unsauble at all. These are just common sense. And they don't like it, you know.

26:20But there are things, there's good things that are changing. I see that Morgan Ogre, or whatever his name is, who's another Canadian trans-identified man, is debating Mia Hughes, who wrote the WPATH files. So that would have been unimaginable a few years ago. He's still sending her abuse online before the interview and calling her a bigot and so on, but at least it's happening. So I don't know. I think this is like a very strong weed that's been strangling institutions and, you know, industries across the UK for a decade. I don't think it's going to be, I don't think we're going to be able to get rid of it quite as easily.

27:04You know, it's just little things. People don't even realize they're doing them. When the policeman interviewed me at my, when I was arrested at Heathrow, I had that great pleasure of, he would say to me, he'd ask me a question about trans people. And I'd say, sorry, what is a trans person? And he said, it's someone whose gender. And I said, sorry, what is gender? And he was in knots immediately. And he actually said gender assigned at birth, which is pure activist language. And I'm sure that a lot of people say that without even realizing they're saying it. So it's not just an attack on the institutions.

27:50It's been an attack on our ability to see a glass of water and say, this is a glass of water. It's been an attack on our ability to recognize reality itself. And that was another reason why I felt so strongly about it, Because as a writer, I need things to be stable so I can write about them, especially comedy, you know, because you need the stability so you can upset it and create instability. But if you start off with an instable world, then how do you make fun of that, you know? I often say that you could not do a comedy about this because you could possibly do a comedy about this if you only used true stories and you assured people that these are actually true stories.

28:44Because the things we've been fighting, the things we've seen are so, you know, completely absurd that if I just was genuinely trying to record it in a fictional story, no one would buy it. No one would buy it. And it's had a very real world impact on your life. Like, for instance, I love the theatre. I love the arts. The arts has been completely corrupted by this. I was talking to an actress the other day, and she said that if she misgenders someone three times in the rehearsal period or when she's in the play, and it could be an accidental thing, simply getting someone's pronouns wrong, you're automatically fired and reported to your agent.

29:32What? That's insane. I mean, this is in the West End in London. This is in literally the place, the best place in the world for theatre. And then it makes me think about the fact that you created Father Ted the Musical, which is, to be honest with you, is a license to print money for everyone involved. It's got a huge fan base I wanted to go and see. And then it's, will it ever see the light of day? I don't know. I mean, you know, they've, by treating me the way they did, they've kind of burnt a lot of bridges with me. So that's part of the problem. By, you said, treating you the way they did.

30:12Let's deal in specifics, Graham, so people can understand. Well, you know, I basically brought the musical to them. I developed it, wrote it with Arthur and Neil Hannon, and, you know, put three years of work into it, thought about it very carefully. tried to make it, wrote it in such a way that it gave a sort of ending to Ted's story that I felt was worthy of Dermot, and was like a little salute to Dermot, and a thank you to Dermot, but still creating a new kind of story that amateur groups could perform. That was one of my main things. I wanted to create a new Ted and Dougal so that amateur theater groups could look at it and go, oh, yeah.

30:55So, it doesn't have to be an impression. It can be just, you know, you're trying to sum up the figure of a guy who's not as bright as he thinks he is, and a guy who's incredibly, incredibly dumb. You know, and I don't know, we just, it was ready. The songs were written, it was ready, it was on its feet. They tried to, I should have known something was up when they tried to make, like, you know character in the show who goes, I hear you're a racist now, father. Well, in the last dry run we had, a black guy said that. And I remember thinking, oh shit, are they going to try and make, are they going to try and make this a multiracial cast on Craggy Island?

31:40Which wouldn't have made sense. Like there's a whole episode about how the Chinatown on Craggy Island is a ridiculous concept, you know? So it wouldn't have made any sense. And God love him, the actor was just as embarrassed as we were, you know? But I could sense that they were already beginning to think, how can we make this a multiracial cast? They did it to Tom Stoppard as well. And Sonja Friedman actually said to me at one point, he doesn't think there should be a black cast in the ghetto, you know? This is like the Warsaw ghetto, I think his last one was made that and and he's and she said but and she said but he's having them

32:25you know and it's like well and it's just ridiculous yeah yeah yeah but this is the world they live in it is entirely about virtue signaling it's no longer about about the art or or the or the truth or the truth or the audience, you know, it's definitely not about the audience. And as a result, the theatre is dying in London, you know, and the Father Ted musical would have given it a huge shot in the arm. But unfortunately, we're now taking orders from the ice cream sellers and the staff who all think they're non-binary, you know, and that's what did for it in the end, you know. So when you say what did for it, what actually happened?

33:07So from what I can hear, the run through was great. The songs were written. The play was ready to go. Everything was there. You were in final rehearsals. You had your black actor. So you had your diversity on your rural Irish island. Everything, every box was ticked. Yeah. What happened? Me, they just didn't want, they wanted me gone. I got a meeting. I wrote a letter to them.

33:31Francis Foster:Oh, they offered you to buy you out, didn't they? Yes. Yes, they offered me 200 grand to walk away. and I was considering it at first and even started writing letters or an explanation as to why I was backing away and so on, you know. But it was all a con. Jimmy was just trying to con them, you know, because I would have still received royalties and, you know, he was just trying to trick everybody, really. But I said, okay, well, you know, I just want to come along to the occasional rehearsal to just see that it's going the right way, that it's not taking on any jokes that don't work or too cheap or something like this.

34:14And they said, no, we want a clean break, you know? And this was after I'd almost single-handedly done this thing, you know? So, you know, I just, I think that that was the final straw because I don't want to be arrogant, but I do know that if I hadn't been there, then, you know, it wouldn't be as good, you know? I've always been like a micromanager on details, especially when it comes to jokes. You know what jokes are like. They have to be a certain way. Yeah. Certain, if you've been doing stand-up, you know that you have to say the words in this order because if you get the order even slightly wrong, you screw it up.

34:57So I didn't trust anyone there to know this, you know, because I've seen the rest of Hat-Trix programming. So, you know, I just didn't want to go. I knew that if I didn't have anything to do with it, then it wouldn't be as good, and I wouldn't be proud of it. And one of the things I'm dead certain of is that if I'm involved in something, it's going to be good, you know?

35:21Francis Foster:Well, your track record better say, and this is the other thing. Like, you know, you're not going to say this yourself because you're a modest guy, but you are a generational talent. in, in, I, I always have to find a weird way of saying it because you're Irish. I always say, you know, British, you know what I mean? Yeah. But you know, the things you've created are things that have entertained literally millions and millions of people. And you, you've had your opinions. You, you probably had them earlier than other people and therefore took more of the arrows and more of the brunt, but it is just a travesty.

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36:35Francis Foster:We proudly promote Hillsdale's courses time and again, and for good reason. They're thoughtful, beautifully made, and provide a world-class education completely free. So if you want to understand how American freedom began and why those lessons still matter today, this is the series to watch. Go to hillsdale.edu slash trigger to enroll for free. That's hillsdale.edu slash trigger and learn how America's story really began. Well, you know, as I say, I mean, it was a roundabout way, but it got me here eventually. And it's been nice being here, knowing that I won't get arrested any second, has meant that I can really relax and start thinking about writing again.

37:19because I'm always learning on the job. And, you know, Rob just gave me the opportunity to write this film idea, which I really like. Rob Schneider.

37:30Francis Foster:Rob Schneider, yeah. Former guest of ours. Yes. And, you know, I just rattled it out. And writing it kind of taught me how to do it, if that makes sense. I'm not saying, you know, it's brilliant or that I immediately know how to do it. But it was just a nice thing at this stage of my life to be able to sit down and write something in a different format that I'm not used to and come away thinking, yeah, that wasn't bad. You know, we kind of might be able to do this. And also, I've often said this, and it sounds like I'm just trying to have commiseration reward. What's that word? Condole? Condolences?

38:12Something like that. Anyway, but like, I've experienced so much more of life now. Like I used to be very, very siloed in the comedy world. You know, I used to imagine if you looked over where I hung out in Soho and drew a map of where I went, it would just be like a big black line after a while at the same places. I was very much on a kind of, um, on rails. And then this happened, completely derailed me, and just kind of threw me into so many different situations that I wouldn't have otherwise been in, met so many interesting people, and also just had the kind of mist fall from my eyes about the way the media has been lying for the last 10 years and what the media has been doing.

39:03And finally beginning to realize that, oh, we're just being manipulated to keep us under control and to keep us docile. But unfortunately, they did that with the wrong thing. Because you can't tell fathers that their daughters won't have fair sports. You can't tell women that they can no longer be safe in rape crisis centres and so on. It's not going to happen. That is the immovable object that proved that the trans movement wasn't an unstoppable force. And it's really interesting because we touched on this before the interview. I've always thought, cards on the table, huge fan, always have been since the days of Father Ted.

39:43Loved your comedy, your writing, all of that. But one thing I've been really disappointed by is the cowardice of the people in your profession and our profession who have not wanted to go near this topic. Even though privately they go, oh, I secretly agree with what you're doing, number one. Or number two, the people who would just come out in full force and support this nonsense. Robin Ince and people like that. David Tennant and all of these people. You go, what's going on here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think often with those people, there's some sort of personal connection. Their cousin or nephew or whatever it happens to be is calling himself non-binary and everyone's going along with it for an easy life.

40:30you know, and they get suckered into it that way. The people I don't understand, and the phenomenon I don't understand is the first part of what you said, the people being scared. It's like, wow, is it that easy to keep people scared? To get them so scared they won't even approach a topic. And this happened without us realizing that we were now in a world, like the way I often put it is that with social networks, and I'm a great example of this, because for the first, while I was building up a social media presence. Not that that's what I aim to do. I was just telling jokes on the internet, you know, but as I was building that up, I was creating around myself a structure by which I could be harassed.

41:12Uh, and we all do that. We all have it, you know, to, to later, greater or lesser extent, the people who have no, um, internet footprint at all, they are very hard to harass. You know, it's extremely difficult to get to them. But if you have any kind of an online life, they got you, you know? Like one of... I can't talk about this because it's my current trial, but like, I know they do things like... You could take a picture in your house, right? And you can see the world outside the window behind you. Well, they'll look at that world. They'll try to figure out where you live from it, you know?

41:51So any information you have online, they will grab. And because I was the writer of Father Ted and I never thought anyone would come after me, our business address was actually our home address and it was on Companies House. And of course, one of the first things that this guy did to me was publish our home address, you know, which kind of scared my wife even more. So, but what I do find, I just find it disturbing that everyone just kind of did the same thing. They all just bowed their heads and waited for mob to pass by. No one said, hang on, there's a mob and we should be looking out for each other.

42:28Everyone just bowed their heads and waited. And that's what I find extraordinary. In fact, I don't even know if they even knew they were doing it. I would ask people and they'd talk about it as if it was just an annoyance, you know, this, this, this, you know, I don't have anything to do with that, you know, and it's like, well, fair enough. But, you know, some people don't have the choice. The Darlington nurses, for instance, they don't have the choice. Their lives have been changed by this stuff and they didn't ask for it. So can't you stand up for them? Nope.

43:05Francis Foster:Well, Graeme, you talked about if you were to track your movements within a small part of London while you were still in the creative world. And I think that's probably telling of the way that other people in that world also operate. It's very insulated. Everyone thinks that they're on the right side of history. As you know, you hinted before we started, like you've changed your mind on a lot of things. And there was a point at which you saw a lot of people as evil and immoral, et cetera. You've kind of grown through that, haven't you, as a result of the experiences you've had. Yeah, absolutely.

43:45You know, and I think another thing to possibly, well, here's the thing. I don't know whether the left has changed. I think they have. No, it's fair. The left have definitely changed. But I don't know if there was an aspect of them that was always like this. And it makes me look back at, it makes me think of certain Stalin-esque aspects that this current movement has, you know, like disappearing people and reputation ruining and all that sort of thing. And it makes me wonder if that was always a feature of socialism and left-wing and liberalism and not a bug, you know. Is Stalinism actually the thing that people like about communism?

44:28Not the everybody gets to eat or everybody gets to own land. No, it's you get to destroy your enemies. And I think that the left over the last few years have been very clear that that's what they want to do. They want to destroy and kill their enemies. The reason they killed Charlie Kirk was because he had the effrontery to debate them about their beliefs. And then one thing that he kept revealing is that their beliefs were built on nothing. Their beliefs are built on a sort of very, very delicate network of their friends and what the media is saying, but there's nothing beneath it, nothing powering it, no real, no facts, no philosophy, just a kind of a overriding urge to see the bad guy punished, you know?

45:25And yeah, now I look at things like the way it's so interesting when you see people going up to these weird kind of protests by boomers. You know, boomers seem to have gone completely mad. But like going up to them and putting a microphone in their face and saying, what specifically do you not like about X or Y? And they never know. They can never say, you know. And so I worry a little bit that the left has become this engine that just wants to, that realizes it can't win arguments based on just the kind of gut feeling that they all have. And as a result, they're just going to take the opposition out by other means, whether it's by cancellation or by shooting them in the neck, you know?

46:07Yeah, it's really worrying how the language that is used online, particularly by the left. I mean, it's starting on the right. We're seeing it on the right as well, which is also worrying. But particularly on the left, you know, calling people fascist Nazis and just thinking that these words have no impact at all is... It's so reckless. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's also... I don't know. I think that the... I think there's been a... I think there's been an influence of the kind of wild west of the internet when you think about places like 4chan and Reddit and so on. I think trolling is something the left seem to enjoy doing now, you know.

46:52And it's never clever. It's just the most horrific kind, like that woman doing this to her neck to some Charlie Kirk fans and so on. Apparently she was a teacher. Yeah, yeah. But as you say, all these people think they're on the side of the angels, so nothing they can do can be bad. That's the way they think about it. But again, it's not based on anything tangible. It's like, well, if Kamala Harris let loads of undocumented people in and he's stopping that, what is your problem exactly? What is your problem with all this? Oh, he's grabbing people off the street. And then you do a little bit of research, you find out they're cartel members or something.

47:38you know and it's like what are you complaining about what is the actual substantive reason to hate trump so much not just hate him as you know we all hate our elected leaders but to have this kind of you know uncontrollable rage about him you know i mean but i have to say i had it i had it myself i suffered from it myself on the when he first won uh the election uh when was it 2017 16 16. I think that was the start of when I started going into a depression, you know. I was up all night because I couldn't believe it. I still resent that I didn't get a good night's sleep that night over nothing.

48:22And I remember breaking it to my son as if it was the most serious thing in the world. You know, my son actually said, you're joking, because I'd filled him with so much nonsense about him. And then, you know, the second term comes along and he's surrounding himself with fairly good people, it seems. They're not all perfect, but some of them seem to be interested in making the US a better place. He's changed in that he seems a little bit better behaved. He's still funny, but it's not just kind of coming out randomly.

49:03He's obviously learned from his previous experience and understands the mechanics of the presidency now. So I just don't... Do you know what I think it is? Actually saying it out loud, I now realise what it is. It is his competency. It is his ability to get things done that they hate.

49:21Francis Foster:Same with Charlie. That was your point. They targeted him because he was effective in what he did. This is the weird thing about the way... The weird thing with President Trump, and there are plenty of things to criticize him for and disagree with him and dislike about him or the MAGA movement or the party, lots of problems as there are in every person and every party, whatever. But he is uniquely criticized for doing the things that he was elected to do. Yeah, yeah. People voted on immigration in this country to a very, very significant extent. And when he tries to deal with it, that's what it is that he's then criticized for.

50:00Francis Foster:Yeah, yeah. Very weird. But it's interesting you said you were filled with a kind of TDS, Trump derangement syndrome, hatred. You clearly have been cured of all of that. Do you think other than being violently, not violently, other than being viciously harassed and cancelled, is there a cure for this sort of derangement? Not just Trump, but in general. You know what? I think you might have to be destroyed by the same people who are lying to you about Trump before you realize, oh, hang on a second. I used to believe it about all sorts of people without knowing why. I remember there was a bad smell around Joe Rogan.

50:43And I remember thinking, oh, he's right wing. You know, just this vague thought in my head. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with being right wing. No, I know. No, I'm not saying you, but like, because of me, because, oh, he's right wing. It's just like, well, he believes in small government. That's the other thing I realized, you know, like, I've met so many conservatives recently, and, you know, they're smart people who you can really have a good conversation with. You can't really have the same kinds of conversations with leftists usually, you know, because they're so feelings-driven and they're so kind of, I don't know, they're so removed from reality, you know?

51:21It's like this thing that in Ireland, again, what I was saying about the bubbling pot, you know, this recent girl who was killed recently, 10-year-old girl, I'm sorry, not killed, raped. 10-year-old girl was raped. And the BBC did an extraordinary thing. They reported on the riots, but they didn't say why they happened. You know, you would think that that would be a part of it, but it's just riots in Dublin, like it's weather or something. And so you realize that all these people who defamed me and called me a bigot, that's what they're in the job of. They're in the job of selectively giving people information that means they will do what they want them to do.

52:04And it's why I brought up the werewolf game at the last time we spoke. Because, you know, unless we develop some tools to combat the misinformation we're being fed from the people we trust, then it's going to be a very rocky next few years. Because you've seen what AI can do. You've seen the... It's now... Just the other day, Connolly, Christine Connolly, I can't remember her first name, but the presidential candidate in Ireland announced her resignation. You know, but it wasn't, it was AI. And that's going to happen more and more often. And this unsteadiness on our feet is going to get worse and worse and worse.

52:48And the sad thing is we don't have anyone to protect us. We should have, in the UK, we should have had the BBC to protect us from that. The BBC should have been the gold standard, you know, that if the BBC says it, then it's probably true, right? That should be, that national broadcaster, it should be like that, that taxpayers pay for. But now, they've just spent 10 years lying to people. I think there was an upsurge in kids seeking gender reassignment when I Am Leo, the BBC program, came out. They've never apologized for that. They've never apologized for pushing this. And as a result, we're going into an uncertain future where we really can't be sure what we're seeing is real or not.

53:35And we don't have anyone on our side, except us stragglers, with all our little independent things that are going on, my little substack. And, you know, I know trigonometry is huge, but you know what I'm saying. We should be able to look to certain things. It was like Matt Taibbi's point about Edward Morrow, that, you know, that was a time when he was hugely respected. And if he said something, he could be sure it was pretty well fact-checked. And, you know, but now you just don't have that certainty anymore. A while back, I pushed myself in training because I'm a bit of a legend.

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55:51Francis Foster:Yeah, and look, let's be honest. Trigonometry and your sub stack and all these other things are great, but they're not the answer because you see it with new media. I mean, actually, unfortunately, look, we're very happy with where we are. We're doing very well. But if you look at the things that attract the most attention in the new media world, it's crazy, batshit conspiracy crap. Yes, yes. That's what's also happening because that's, you know, that appeals to people. And also, I'm sure you would draw, I mean, I know you've had some great moments as well with the Oxford debates and things like that, you know.

56:27But there is a part of me that wishes, I still wish I was sitting around a table just talking about different words for farts with some funny people, you know? That's been kind of taken from us because we've had to step in. It's so ridiculous to even say that, but we have. We've had to step in and do the job that the BBC and other mainstream channels aren't doing, you know? We shouldn't have to do this. We're not professional. Do you know what I mean? Right. We started off trying to make people laugh, and now we have to do this. Why is that now our job? Why isn't someone, you know, like, why isn't there a David Dimbleby type?

57:12Where are they all going, you know? And they're still there, but they're lying, and they're misrepresenting. Like, today's program is still misrepresenting women. and women's hour still doesn't have feminists on it, you know, like Helen Joyce and so on. They just won't do their jobs. So we have to do it. It's a crazy situation.

57:36Francis Foster:Do you think Britain will recover from this? Do you think there comes a point where all of this is dialed back? I think the gender thing is, yeah, I don't think that that's a problem. I think that the real problem, though, is the immigration thing in terms of how it's been reported and not reported. So I think that the idea that you can keep mollify a nation of people who are worried about what these changing demographics mean to their country, if they can't speak about that, and if their speech about that is considered racist, then it's a far greater worry to me that we're seeing some sort of I don't know some sort of social breakdown over the next few years you know I don't think I think that that is entirely possible Ireland just had this rape something like that could happen at any moment with the way with the way uh immigration is unchecked at the moment and it's it's it'll just take something like that to make it all go off, you know?

58:44And then the police will really enter into the new stage of their existence, which is just pure keeping people from, you know, burning stuff up. And it's not going to be pretty, and unfortunately I don't see the media changing. They haven't learned from the trans issue, certainly, because they're still doing it. But I don't see them saying, hang on, we have to reflect the world as it is, not as we would wish it to be. because once you do that, then at least people feel they're being heard. But if you're not even being heard, then that kind of social breakdown is much more possible, I think. I mean, that's the worrying thing because you look at what's happening in Ireland.

59:31Yeah. And I mean, I know very little about it. I've got some Irish relatives, but you're looking at it and you talk to a few people and you go, well, this is a powder keg. Yeah. And yet no one's talking about it. Yeah, that's it.

59:44Francis Foster:What is happening in Ireland? I think just that we've had, you know, that weird European project of just flooding the country with immigrants for some reason. I don't know if there's someone somewhere going, oh, no, if we do this, everybody will be 10 quid better off or something. But there's no reason given for it. It's changing the demographics of the country. I believe in Galway, the most popular name is Mohammed now. I'm pretty sure that's not a rumor, but it might not have been Galway. And, you know, you have these hostiles that are being turned over completely to immigrants. Again, they're not families.

1:00:27They're military-aged men. What does anyone hope to gain by all this? What is going on? And what does anyone hope to gain by not letting the Irish speak about it? And RTE is just allergic to allowing anything other than the Dublin Four kind of media mindset to dictate what the discourse is. And also, Ireland has got a tremendous housing crisis. It's practically unaffordable to buy property in Dublin. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. And you go to Dublin, go to any restaurant, and the prices are unbelievable. Dublin is kind of not... It's only possible to live in Dublin if you're of a certain tax bracket.

1:01:18You know? It's like just you're either rich or nothing, you know? And it's like... And also, even if you're well off, you can't buy anywhere because the house prices are so insane. So every household has three or four cars. It's the only place that they can't move out, and it's the only place they can be in private. We've got this massive traffic problem as well, you know, that's slightly better these days, I think. But it's, I don't know. The thing that's taken a real hit for me over the last few years is thinking there's anyone somewhere who knows what they're doing and will sort it out. You know, you used to think, well, they know what they're doing in banks, or they know what they're doing in the cockpit, you know.

1:02:06But you don't have that easy confidence in everything now because you realize, oh, they're just people like me. And they might be good at their jobs, but when you think about... There was a funny quote that a science fiction writer once said, he was asked at this conference, well, isn't 95 % of science fiction crap? And he said, 95 % of everything is crap. And it's true that in life, it seems to be that there's a few people who are truly capable. You know, Charlie Kirk seemed to be one and they killed him. And everybody else is either just, you know, trying to get by, trying not to let other people know how not in control they are, and coast through life, never bringing their A-game, never bringing any expertise or empathy to their jobs.

1:03:03And you realize, well, that's government. You know, that's what we got. And I just don't feel... I often bring up the image of the empty cockpit. You're on a plane and you open the door to the cockpit and there's just no one there. That's how I felt over the last few years. All the things that I felt kept life stable and sane and, you know, allowed me to just go on writing comedy and not thinking anything was, you know, being allowed to be in this little playpen where my decisions didn't affect anything other than what was going to appear on a half hour of television. that's gone you know because you can't be as carefree anymore you have to check every document from your kids school to make sure they're not being taught some craziness you have to you have to be on top of everything and that's good that's exhausting and I can understand why some people don't even want to take the first step into this new world but unfortunately it's the one we've all taken because you know it turns out to be the world we're in and what you're effectively talking about is the transition from a high trust society to a low trust society, which is devastating.

1:04:18Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I get less of a feel of it here. America feels kind of high trust. I don't know why, but it just, I don't know. It's just so big, I guess, and the people here are, it's harder to control them.

1:04:35Francis Foster:Yeah. There's also no such thing as America because you live in Arizona. If you live in New York, you'll experience a very low trust society. Yeah, sure. You know, it's also where you are. Yes, and also possibly whether you're near a city or in a city. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. But I'm glad you found a great life here, but it's a massive loss for the fact that, and this is such a weird thing because it applies across the board. You've got the guy who created Revolut, the banking. Oh, yeah. He's left for Dubai. The reason is, as I understand it, tax policy in Britain.

1:05:13Francis Foster:Okay. You've got, you know, and that is because government is going crazy on that side of things. Yeah. Then you've got people like you who are forced to, like, if you could have Father Ted the Musical touring around Britain and Ireland and the rest of the world, you'd still be in the UK if you weren't getting arrested every time you land at Heathrow. Yeah. And on and on and on. And it's just a process of a massive brain drain of talented, driven, ambitious, skilled people being driven out by people who are the exact opposite. Yeah. Who are not geniuses, who are not talented, who are not ambitious, who are mediocre.

1:05:50Francis Foster:and there's this sort of like mediocre, tyrannical layer of people who are in charge and they're driving out the passionate, the creative, the talented, the risk takers, the wealth generators. Yeah. And, you know, until that ends, this is what's going to happen. And people like you are going to be sitting here by a beautiful pool in the sun. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you know, I, yeah, I mean, that's about the size of it. It's not a happy place, it seems to me, when I go back to the UK. No. I worry about it sometimes. You know, my kids are still there, obviously. They're in college now.

1:06:29So I'm particularly worried about them. But I don't know. I just, I sometimes wonder whether the UK has a future, you know? I've never felt like that before, but there's so many examples of the ruling class or what I call the regime of media, politicians, and cultural institutions all basically agreeing on the same line. That's just not going to end up anywhere good. As an example, it's already killed theatre in London. I believe theatres are about to shut down. And that's because, unfortunately, the theatre world has been taken over by, as you say, mediocrities. And what better way of elevating yourself if you're a mediocrity than tearing down the person who's doing better than you?

1:07:25You certainly see it in children's publishing. The other children's writers who are coming after rolling are very, you know, you'd never hear of their work otherwise, you know. So yeah, this last few years has been a sort of a decade of mediocrities telling their betters what to do.

1:07:48Francis Foster:Graham, always good to have you back, even though it tends to be when terrible things have happened. Thanks for coming on. As you know, before we go to our audience questions for you, We always ask, what's the one thing we're not talking about that we should be? We're actually talking about the one thing that we should be talking about, which is the gender ideology. For years, it has been just unthinkable to even bring it up in polite company. But now it's unavoidable. And I think that... No, that's not a good answer. Sorry, you want the one thing that people aren't thinking about. Yeah. I think it's fair to say that anyone listening to this is fairly familiar with the transition.

1:08:33I know, yeah, yeah. We can skip the question. Or you can just say about, you know, the work you're doing with Rob and Andrew, if you want. Actually, there's a good example, isn't there? Andrew having to leave.

1:08:48Yeah, no, I think people... Maybe I should not tell people what they should talk about for a while. Maybe I should take a holiday.

1:08:56Francis Foster:holidays are great yeah people are not look i you know you say that i actually i've been taking a lot more time off yes as i particularly as i get older because not you got a kid yeah not that we have the hardest job in the world but like what we do is intense mentally yeah and i was starting to find that if i'm like going on and on and on without taking any time off a my health suffers yes and And B, I become a bit of a dick. Yes, yes. You know? So actually, you know, taking time off from what you do, especially if you're in a kind of heated environment of the kind that we operate in, I think it's very important and it's stabilizing and grounding.

1:09:36Francis Foster:So it's a very good point. We should all take some time off. Yeah. Okay. There we go. I told you what the one thing we're not talking about is. Head on over to triggerpod.co.uk where we ask Graham your questions. When a joke offends, who owns the problem nowadays? The comedian, the audience, or the culture that's lost its sense of proportion?

1:10:19Thank you.