How We Got Iran's Nuclear Secrets - Ex Mossad Director Yossi Cohen

29:27So there is a huge advantage on our side that we know what the enemy or what the enemy is and what he does. On their side, of course, there are some cases that they've suspected or there are some cases that they believe that we're not who we are and who we present we are. And we had some problems to explain that. Sometimes you have to run away or to escape. I mean, from the espionage arena as we probably call it. But this is something that refers to a given operation or to any operation. It will, I believe, be conducted in a very different manner. So each one of them has probably the same fundamental capabilities and abilities.

30:16I mean, either organizational ones or private ones or personal ones. and then it has to be conducted towards the target. And I hope I answered your question. No, no, you did. You did. You did answer the question. But the thing that I found fascinating is you were talking about weaknesses of character in the book. And you were saying that every time... Our side or theirs? Their side. Yeah, both. But no, but their side. And you said that there are things that people crave deep down that motivate them. For some people, it's money. For some people, it's sex. and you to explain that when you're so when you're targeting someone because you want something out and whether it be information or something else right i mean i think i think that what we're trying to do is first to know to know the target very well okay if anyone is the target and i i know him but i know him by whatever either listening to him or following him or knowing his friends or recruiting him and his entourage i mean people that are around him are already speaking about He doesn't really give me the real character, who he really is, right?

31:21And this is true for anyone. I mean, in any, I would say, human contact between any one of us, I mean, there are layers that have been seen and layers that you don't see. Our mission is to be his best friend. In order to know who he really is, I mean, you have to really be his best friend. He really has to believe that you are his best friend or an ally or a colleague or someone that can serve his interests. And each one of us has different interests, but most of them are common. Okay? I mean, I'm not sure about you guys. You're not a target, of course. But thinking about yourselves as someone that has kind of an interest.

32:02I mean, who would you be interested in speaking to tomorrow? Who would be the one? That's what I'm looking for. I mean, would you love to be in a different place? Do you want to move a different country, different city? Do you want to have a different profession? Do you want to move higher in your organization? Do you want to be rich? Do you want to save yourself from poverty? I mean, do you like to move ahead with your whatever, family, life, kids, wife, so forth? Or do you hate enough your regime? so to help me, helping you, saving yourself from the current regime. This is, by the way, I think that John le Carré, I mean, the phrase that beautifully said, a good source has to hate someone and love someone.

32:51And this is very much the truth. Because when you are engaging with these kind of targets, with these kind of objects, as we call them, you really have to know where are they? are they i mean take hezbollah for example are they with nasa rallah rest in peace are they with him do they believe in hezbollah's agenda or they counter that did they or are they part of the iranian nuclear thing because that's the proper job but they don't have an alternative but they do not support that or do they support it do they like the iranian regime to stay or they want a change of regime currently. It's a big thing to know.

33:36For an Iranian guy or Hezbollah, a terrorist, I mean, to tell you, I don't like what I do, and I counter what they do inside my country, it's a big thing, because who are you? It needs a super thick level of trust. So they will tell you, they revealed the secrets, and said, I don't like them. Can I tell you that? It's a risky thing to say, super risky thing to say, not only in Iran, in all these dictatorships and autocrats, I mean, whatever, all these countries that are eventually forcing you not only to work upon a given target or a given whatever vision, it could be the Iran regime or other terror organizations, but they force you to accept what they offer unless you will be fired.

34:23and it's a very risky job. Not our side only. There is too. I mean, in order to agree to open your heart to someone that you've just met maybe a few weeks ago, maybe a few months ago, but someone that you've just met and telling you, hey, who are you? And we know, oh, interesting to know. And then you go into this kind of relationship. You have to be super tight with him. The level of trust should be super tight. Daddy will reveal his secrets. It will reveal his heart. I mean, he will open his heart to you. And then, when you have a friend on the other side, when there is a trust with your object, you can do much more.

35:07Francis Foster:And are there many people that can't be turned? That cannot be? Yeah. I can't assume that. I know. In our workflow, there are many objects. Of course, some of them, or maybe many of them, have rejected all that. I mean, they said, no, we can't. Or to a point, they say, I don't need that. I'm not interested. Or many versions of many ways to leave your agent or to leave your operator, right? Many ways, I mean, to say no. But there are many ways to say yes. And there are more than that. I think that not everyone is capable to recruit. Not everyone. I mean, put yourself in these shoes. i mean try to see i mean how would i do that do i have the capacity capability to do that i mean to play and to go and to say and to keep cover story and to give arguments to the other part to the other to the people in front of me i mean to the person in front of me telling him okay i mean trust me i'm your best friend um and more than that i have to assume that everybody everyone can be recruited i have to assume that i know it's that sound realistic because not all All of them are recruitable, you can say.

36:20But if that's a target, I will have to try. And by the way, sometimes we surprise ourselves. Sometimes you go to someone that you see openly, that is enchanting and conducting the best way that the regime wants him to do. He speaks openly for the regime. He's so much in favor, but we see other layers. We do see other layers. We see his, whatever, other layers. I don't want to go in. But when you engage with him, and after a few weeks or a few months, this is the only way really to know who he is, where his heart is. Is this the guy I see on television, on public, on his whatever arena, local, whatever stadium?

37:10you? I mean, singing the regime song or do I see the real one that I need? And there's a huge gap in between who they are publicly and who they are secretly or in between friends and family. You, the trigonometry audience, understand how vital free speech is. That's why we're proud to reintroduce you to our longstanding partners, Give, Send, Go. We caught up with their founders at Jordan Peterson's Alliance for Responsible Citizenship Conference this year, and it was clear they are not just running a crowdfunding site, they're defending a principle. Take one of the most powerful examples, Daniel Penny.

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38:37Francis Foster:That makes sense. So that takes us nicely into Iran. I mean, the biggest coup of your career as Director of Mossad that we know about, at least, was stealing Iran's nuclear secrets. Yeah. How did that happen? And more importantly, what did you find? Because actually, it's interesting now, Israel wasn't really much in the news until two years ago. And I think for... Israel was not much in the news. He was not. He was not. Not here. Not in the UK. No, not in the West. Really? No. I'll be honest with you, it might be unpleasant for Israelis to hear, but no one really cared about Israel until October 7th happened.

39:12Francis Foster:Yeah. But now it's obviously become a bigger conversation. Oh, you were dealing with your Brexit and stuff, right? I mean, that was more important. We've got a lot of problems. Immigration and other... Let's not get into that because we're going to start crying. So your coup, stealing Iran's nuclear secrets, happened before October 7th, obviously significantly before. What did you find, first of all? Because this was a big point of contention when Trump and Netanyahu bond the nuclear facilities. I want to ask you about that too. Okay, I will. If you fast forward your question into June 2025, this is the full answer.

39:51And I will go backwards. Okay? I mean, with your permission. In 2016, after a few months, the JCPOA was already signed. It was signed in July 2015 by the P5 plus 1, UK included, right? England, France, Germany, USA, China, and Russia. It's weird to think that all of these have worked together, all right? Now they totally split. and the P5 Plus 1 has signed what we call the JCPOA the nuclear deal it's not a deal eventually it's a plan of action JCPOA joint comprehensive plan of action that was a plan of action when it was signed we didn't like it we Israel we didn't like it very briefly why? because we felt that the agreement is a terrible agreement that leaves Iran with a lot of capabilities and capacities and we wanted them to go on zero no enrichment no sites, no nuclear sites, no scientists, no Murtin-Fakhizadeh group, what we call the weapon group.

40:56We wanted all that to be eventually dismissed, dismantled, whatever, I mean, to zero. Whereas it gave them some leeway? It gave them a lot of leeway, I mean, till the sunset. I mean, not only that, I mean, the Iranians eventually kept their capabilities. And that's a problem. It is true that if you go, I mean, we're not going to do a nuclear seminar, But the one thing that bothered us above it all, that they've kept capabilities in the bunkers alive. That means that they can not only enrich uranium in the bunkers, they can even improve the enrichment. What they did. Eventually, this is exactly what worried us.

41:33And more than that, there is a sunset clause, as we call it, the sunset clause, as we call it, Which is something that says that in a given time, the agreement eventually will be dismissed or will be canceled or will be eventually banished or abandoned. It's not permanent. Yeah, not anymore. And we didn't like that. We thought that Iran should be very low kept by the level of enrichment, if at all. And that all nuclear sites, including the scientific work that they conducted, should be completely closed and shut down. That was one of the main arguments. All that was very well opened and kept by Iran according to that agreement.

42:17That's why we posed that dramatically. I was one of the negotiators. I mean, at the time, I was the prime negotiator for the state of Israel for the nuclear deal. I had conducted this kind of relationship with the UK, French, all the others. And we said, I mean, because every country received a kind of a vertical to deal with inside their agreement. Headed by the USA, of course, the foreign ministry, I mean, the Secretary of State and his team. At the time, John Kerry, Wendy Sherman and the others. So we didn't like it that much. and we have told them that in our perspective, I mean, everything that Iran is doing is under one vision.

42:56I mean, they're heading the bomb. I mean, they're trying to pave their way to the bomb. And this is something that they have declared again and again and again from within the system that they're doing. They said, yeah, of course, because of that we need an agreement. And we said we have to attack the sites. If they don't stop, we have to attack. The gap that was not fulfilled till June 13th this year. But in 2016, after the agreement was signed, we saw something very weird happening in Iran, which is under Ministry of Defense and Dr. Moksen Fakhrizadeh, rest in peace, they have started to collect this kind of materials from all over the country.

43:38Under a very discreet manner, super secret thing that's happening in Iran itself says, You will bring us everything that you have, hardware, software, disks, papers, documents, everything that we have done under this nuclear secret activity into one side. That's alerted me. That was the thing that said something wrong is happening there. I don't know what is it yet, but I want to know what's there. Two years later, that was the archive, right? And we said two things at the beginning. One, don't lose your eye from the ball. Make sure that we know everything that he is doing or they're doing, because there were few who knew about that in Iran itself.

44:22And number two, when we see it lands somewhere in Iran, it has to be, by the way, a site that is not recognized as an official site because of the agreement, because the IAEA, the agency, I mean the nuclear agency, atomic agency in Vienna, under the agreement could visit any site. All right. So they say if the site is not on the official list. OK. I mean, they don't even know how to ask where to visit.

44:51Francis Foster:You can't inspect the site. You can't inspect the site you don't know about. Yeah, exactly. OK. And this is what they that's why they placed it in a kind of a warehouse inside Tehran. In a kind of an industrial area. OK. We found out that this is what they do that raises our suspicious suspicious even higher. and then I've instructed my my teams bring it on I want to know what's in it I think that they are hiding the filthiest secrets of Iran bring it home two years later we did okay took us a long time to conduct this kind of operation I mean a lot of troubles on the way we've been in Iran hundreds of times I mean collecting information recruiting people from from within I mean know exactly what's happening in this kind of warehouse.

45:39When we brought the archive in,

45:44in January 2018, we've operated, but it took us a few months to get it out. It was not FedEx or...

45:53Francis Foster:Well, you talk about it was a half a ton of materials. Half a ton of materials, true. We didn't bring the hardware in, but we brought a lot of documents and disks, a lot of videos and hard disks. I mean, amazing stuff. We've been surprised ourselves. So what did you find? We found out that there was, and there is still, massive activity that is in light of a nuclear bomb. Not like Iran has ever declared before. They have denied ever doing anything like the path or paving the path towards a nuclear bomb. This is what they did. But we found out that they did. And now we have absolute evidence, a lot of evidence that show that this is what they did.

46:43Francis Foster:Can you give us some specifics on what they're doing? Absolutely. I mean, in a nuclear activity, I mean, if you want to hide it, according to the Iranians, you can't work under any inspection of the IEA. And we found out that they have done a lot of work. Many sites that we had found out were not known to anyone. never declared, but a lot of activity was happening there, right? And we did find many, many, many new sites that were conducting actual and physical nuclear work without declaring it to the IAEA. So in one hand, Iran is conducting kind of negotiations with the West or with the West, East and Russia and signing an agreement saying, our intention is not, of course, for a nuclear bomb.

47:30I mean, this is all clean. On the other hand, now we see the reality. Iran is conducting kind of a discrete alternative job or a nuclear job that eventually creates the path to the bomb. And this could not be allowed. That was the reason for us to go on with it. Because, I mean, in the intelligence philosophy, I mean, the use of intelligence will always be more valuable than the intelligence itself. Meaning, if you know something, it's okay. If you use it, it's so much better. If you know that there is a terrorist coming, it's okay. If you use it and you disrupt his terror activity, that's very useful.

48:12Same goes for the Iranian thing. So this is what we did. we have, I mean, the Prime Minister did. Prime Minister Netanyahu had a very important press release, whatever, I mean, press conference, and he revealed that we have that. I mean, it didn't show everything, but that was kind of a shocking thing to all negotiators. What we did, I did personally, is that I have ordered to copy it bit by bit, all of it, all the archive, and give it to one by one, to the head of the CIA at the time, to the head of the MI6 at the time, to the head of the DGSE at the time, the French Mossad at the time, every one of them, and to the Russians, Chinese, and partially to the Germans, and to the IEA, and telling them, okay, this is the archive, we tell you nothing about that.

48:59Do you tell us what's in it? First, do you endorse it, or do you think we faked it, as the Iranian would claim? Everyone endorsed it, including the IEA, and this is the most important part. By the way, a few weeks later, President Trump exits the agreement saying Israel has just provided us with new materials that shows that Iran lied all the way to the agreement. And now we understand their truth or what they're really doing. They're not the reality that they were trying to create for us. And number two, everyone, all services, including the IA, endorsed completely what was in it and said, this is a problematic issue that has to be declared or not declared, cleaned or cleared in between us and Iran.

49:44Francis Foster:Which brings us very rapidly to June of this year. Exactly. Because you just used a phrase that I found very interesting saying, and is still. Are you saying that the strikes that were conducted on Iran have not destroyed fully their nuclear bomb? I do. I mean, fully destroyed is a very big word. So they still have nuclear sites that they're operating? I think that we have to understand that Iran hasn't given its motivation or agenda to reach a nuclear bomb. I do not believe them at all. Not the supreme leaders, as we falsely call them, declarations. that he says we're not interested in the bomb?

50:24Of course not. So what is that, sir? And if not, let us visit it, right? Because the sequence was before 13th of June, is that the IAEA had this board of governors, I mean, describing why Iran is violating all the inspectors, right? Or the inspection activity inside Iran. And that was a very important decision that gave the light green light, okay, to that attack. Because President Trump said openly at the White House, with the Prime Minister sitting next to him, he said, the three things that I do, I give the negotiations a chance. And I give it 60 days for the Iranians to engage with us. If an agreement will be achieved my way, we have an agreement.

51:11If not, we will attack. Israel would lead the attack. And these three things have actually happened. Iran did not come clean to the IAEA demands. They never did, by the way, till today. Sites that were destroyed at the attack, that we knew that they are conducting military kind of military activity or military to the bomb activity, that we had to take over. I mean, this kind of strike. And more than that, they said, since you don't come clean, with all evidence that we'd found at the archive were coming to get you. Now, if it was fully destroyed, to my knowledge, enrichment is not happening anymore in Iran right now.

51:55We may miss something. As I told you, you don't know what you don't know. So they may hide more than what we have. There may be another site that we don't see. Maybe there is another activity that we don't know of. We know what we have destroyed. We know the people that we took away, unfortunately. We know what we've stopped, but we don't know what we don't know. So what we know is that we have to conduct more penetrative operations inside Iran to make sure that we know more about their current activity. And if we find any new activity or these activities that were never ceased because of the attack, Iran do understand something very well now.

52:37That we can, it's an important sentence, that we can come again. Sure. Not only us, I mean, the B2s of the Americans can come again too.

52:45Francis Foster:Well, I think that message is probably quite clear to them now. I would think. A question I was going to ask you is, based on your time as director of Mossad, based on your intelligence, based on what you know, why does Iran want a nuclear bomb? I think that they want to be immune from the region, maybe from the state of Israel or others. I mean, they are in a consistent conflict with their neighbors all the time. What does that mean being new? Two very close neighbors do have nuclear bombs. Pakistan and India, very close countries, I mean, physically, I mean, to Iran. And Israel. I don't know about that.

53:29I don't know about that.

53:33But Pakistan and India do know. I mean, they do have nuclear military capabilities. And since they are Shiites and not Sunnah, all right, there are in a constant conflict with the region too. So they're very much worried about that. And this is number one. Number two is to be immune when you are passive is one thing, but to be immune when you are so aggressive in the region is a different thing. Because the Iranian vision is the Shiite crescent. If you have the map of the northern part of the Middle East, I mean, there is kind of a cut through Iraq, I mean, from Iran into Iraq, and then into Syria, going down to Lebanon, okay, to create division, okay, what we call the Sheet Crescent.

54:15And there are many Shia there. And I think that Iran is trying to create this kind of Sheet Crescent, if declared or not. And by the way, they've done that beautifully in Iraq by Qasem Soleimani at the time. Harshtar Shaabi, there was like a kind of a local Shiite force working for him, for them, under an absolutely supervision of the Iranian. They kept the Assad regime alive while conquering part of the country or the regime itself. And of course, they've dominated Lebanon through the Hezbollah and other Shiite organizations. So I believe that all that map that you see creates a kind of a need to be immune or telling the world you can't touch me anymore.

55:02Now I have nuclear and you don't mess up with me. And I believe that for these two reasons, I mean, Iran has eventually conducted this kind of activity. And it's really interesting in the book where you talk about how you actually, how Mossad, because people have got this image of Mossad, which is obviously incorrect. but you help incorrect in many ways you know there's a conspiracy for theories we don't need to go into because they're boring and tedious as far as i'm concerned okay but you you work a lot with british intelligence helping brits on the street brits in london where we are now remain safe can you explain that a little bit of course i mean the time the time was isis time daish as we call it in arabia um isis was all over um and um under under the coalition you had a kind of a 74 countries and we're working together i mean to defeat daish to defeat isis that was the right thing to do by the way numbers okay i mean the size of daish presumably was in between 40 to 60 thousand terrorists same size of hamas we're doing it alone you did it with 74 countries or even more The coalition that was formed by President Obama at the time was trying to do the right stuff.

56:19Did Daesh or was it defeated completely? I'm not sure, but this will be said sometime in the future. Nevertheless, I mean, Daesh or ISIS kept a very important international body that they call international body, the international Daesh. There was a kind of a branch inside Daesh in Iraq itself and connected to Syria that was conducting terror activity outside of the Levant. right? ISIS is part of the Levant, right? ISIL, remember they called ISIL because of the Levant. The Islamic State inside the Levant. They were trying to conduct operations outside of the Levant, meaning cutting out of Syria into Turkey.

56:57And now they are in like, in a kind of a very, very pleasant or much more comfortable arena for them to operate. And then going all the way down from Syria into Europe till the end of Europe. I mean, it could be either Lisbon, London, or anywhere else. What I have understood is that there is this kind of international body that we can provide much more intelligence to our counterparts around the world, even if the terror activity is not really directed to either Israeli entities or to Jewish communities. By the way, that was happening too, of course. In Turkey, in Istanbul, against our synagogue, against the rabbi, And more than that.

57:42And then I have created the kind of a team that's working intensively to create intelligence, to create intelligence, together with 8200, of course, and to bring it over to my counterparts in the places that we see. I mean, AISO has been interested in operating. And that has created the kind of a super strong bonding between me and the MI5 at the time. Of course, the MI6 too. I mean, both directors for both organizations were super good allies and super good friends and super good counterparts. And we did understand together that there is a kind of a common enemy that we have to fight together.

58:25And I think that I can quote the former head of MI5 who told us at the Mossad in one of the visits here and in his headquarters that we deserve the Oscar for the... I mean, you said we don't have Oscar for intelligence work, but you deserve the Oscar for what you have done to disrupt terror activity inside England, inside the UK. And this is something very important, very meaningful. And this is what we did, I mean, for a long, long, long time. And that being the case, how severe are the threats to the UK from these terror cells? If you're someone who values free inquiry and independent thinking, which let's be honest is why you're probably watching Trigonometry, our sponsor Venice AI is the tool for you.

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1:00:41How severe are the threats to the UK from these terror cells? I think that they're all the time there. I mean, being part of the West, okay, like not being part of the radicalist Islam is a kind of a thing that has to be all the time taken care of. You are not acceptable. We are not acceptable. We're Jewish or Christians, whatever. We're not acceptable by these radicalists. I mean, they think that we do not have the right to exist. I mean, not only as a country, but as human beings. And therefore, I mean, you see a lot of this activity happening all the time. I think that currently I'm not aware of the level of the risk or the level of the threat currently.

1:01:22I mean, these days in whatever, I mean, September 25. But I think that the level of threats are always there and has to be very, very well looked upon to make sure that they will not enter the country, will not enter the houses. I think that terror activity is still vivid. It's not a thing that died. It didn't die in Iran. And by the way, the only country that I'm aware of that is conducting terror activity as a country, as a state, we know organizations. But we do not know many countries that are conducting terror activity outside of the country. So it can go against anyone. And they did that, right?

1:01:57They did that all over. I mean, all over Europe. I mean, all over Latin America or even in the USA itself. And it would help to disrupt these ones as well. So I think that the level of threat is still there. either from terror groups that are not liking what you do. I think that England or the UK should be looking at these because now when you're dealing so openly and maybe in a different manner with legal immigration or illegal immigration and you eventually target some countries, I mean, this could create kind of hate crimes coming in your direction. This is happening in the USA right now. I mean, you see what happened, unfortunately, I mean, to Charlie Kirk, I mean, a few days ago, I mean, in the USA.

1:02:42This is because of maybe opinions and maybe other threats. But I truly believe that in order to counter all that, you need a super high level of intelligence internationally. I'm not sure that the threats will come always from the streets of Manchester, Liverpool, or whatever, I mean, Glasgow. I mean, I think it could come from all over the world. I mean, inside your own country, it needs to be worked upon very intensely to my understanding. It's because, Yossi, as we look at the world now, and you're probably going to push back against this, but to a lot of people, the world looks ever more unstable.

1:03:18It looks ever more dangerous. We've gone from going from a unipolar world to a multipolar world. Do you think that we've become more unsafe in terms of terrorism, in terms of those types of threats with the world as it is now, as opposed to how it used to be? Not that I would counter that. I think that the world is getting crazy. I mean, in simple words, I see a different translation of hatred or hate crimes. And again, I mean, going to Charlie Kick, what is it? Okay, it's a young killer, I mean, 22 years of age, that is taking an own decision. It does not belong to an organization. It does not belong to a country.

1:03:55I mean, it's not like he's being recruited by Hamas, Hezbollah, or Iran, or whatever it is. I mean, he is working for his own by his own, as far as I can understand it today. So this kind of instability or this kind of hate crimes, I mean, can happen all over. And I think that, yes, we, if I may, as adults, we have to make sure that our kids and youngsters are not being fed by this kind of stupidity and hatred through the social media. I mean, social media become to be kind of a tool to recruit people without being part of any organization anymore. I mean, you don't have a salary, you don't have a card, you don't have a union.

1:04:39You just say, I believe in what they say and I will act. And this is kind of a new threat that is being, I think, placed in our cities. In our region, in Israel, I think that when the war will be ended, and I hope that the war will be ended soon, I listen very carefully to what they say in the USA today. Right. Whitcoff has just announced that we may have, we may be have a kind of a solution soon to end the war in Gaza. I hope that the war in Gaza will be ended when all these hostages will be eventually returned fully to the state of Israel. And this may be kind of a declaration to the end of the war in Gaza.

1:05:17Meanwhile, we are defeating a lot of terrorists in our region. Meanwhile, we're defeating a lot of the Iranian capabilities in their territories. Meanwhile, the army, the Syrian army does not exist anymore. Meanwhile, we conduct, I would say, quietly, maybe, a kind of a potential peace treaty with other neighbors in the region, i.e. Syria, i.e. Saudi Arabia, sometime in the future. So in the end of the war, our territory, I believe, our region will be safer from these huge organizations. It is differently translated, I mean, to Europe or to USAID, or even inside Israel, when you see... this kind of less safe environment because of people do not like the others rather than being part of their organization.

1:06:07The polarization, as you correctly said, is huge. I mean, you don't, I mean, you see that, I mean, polarized, I mean, all over. I mean, it is polarized in Israel, unfortunately, right now. It is super polarized in the UK, I believe right now. It is super polarized in the USA and in France and in Hungary and in Germany and all over. I mean, you see, movements that are taking extreme, either to the right or to the left. And I see more to the right. And maybe because of that, and because of, as I said, the wrongly activity inside the social media, we feel less safe. I mean, last holidays, our New Year's just ended, and I'd been to your synagogue here in London.

1:06:57I spent the holidays here in London and the rabbi of the synagogue gave a lecture and said, this is the absolute extreme times that we are now facing and the level of anti-Semitism is the highest since the World War II. That was his declaration. That's the way Jewish people feel now in the UK. And they're worried about themselves living among the UK for hundreds of years, being part of your everything, integrating into the culture, the music, the history, the leadership. We had even a Jewish prime minister in England one day. Benjamin Disraeli. Absolutely. I mean, I was there, the audience, listening to the rabbi.

1:07:50Saying that or declaring that, I think this is something that we have to think about. Why is it actually that Jewish people in 2025, when the UK is declaring itself one of the strongest democracies on earth, okay, feel that way. Why is it? Is it organized terrorism? I don't think so. So what is it? And I think that is the sense or that is the sentiment when the people do feel less safe all over the world. It is exactly the same spirit or the same sentiment that people do believe that maybe my neighbor doesn't like what I think. Maybe he believes that I belong to a different sector, and therefore he's able to either create a hate crime.

1:08:29We see that a lot. I'm working a lot with other countries, I mean, to counter not only terrorism, but anti-Semitism, and we see that rising, I mean, all the time. What is it all about? Yeah, some would say it's about the war in Gaza. I would say it's not really connected only to that. I mean, there are other elements that are happening, I mean, around us in our society that are breaching our life. And I think that it needs either a national or global thinking, I mean, to counter all that and to tell the people, I mean, openly, yeah, we may be different, we may think differently, we may have different thoughts about different issues that may be even super important for you or to you, but we're not your enemies.

1:09:15Francis Foster:Well, we've been trying to make that point on this show for some time now, And I think Charlie Kirk's assassination really focused the mind for a lot of people on that. Because, as you say, a lot of young people have been badly, badly miseducated when it comes to these issues. And the idea that people who disagree can have a conversation. And that's the way to adjudicate these disagreements. We saw this since Charlie's assassination. there was a guy who shot at a nice facility in America, killed three people he was allegedly trying to defend, detainees in the facility. And it's one of the things that makes, I think, people feel extra unsafe is that, and I had this realization the other day, that all of this was possible always.

1:10:03Francis Foster:The sniper rifles or a rifle with a scope, they've been there for 200 years. 200 years. So anyone could have been doing this every day for the last 200 years. And the only reason they haven't is we didn't have the culture and the technology and whatever else is going on to allow people to be brainwashed in this way and then to go and act. Because the physical ability to do this has always been there and will be there, provided the United States has the same rules around cancer that it does now. Absolutely. I totally agree with you and I cherish what you do here in your show. And I think that the one and a half million subscribers that we have here, and inshallah, you will have more.

1:10:43I mean, two million and more than that. I think that the messaging that you are providing the world is super important. I wish that everybody will do the same that you do. Why is it? Because it's super important for the youngsters to listen to you. I mean, they have abandoned, I believe, like proper, I mean, conservative TV channels, I mean, which is not using the same methods as the social media. Yeah, but you in between. I think that you can make the corrections needed. And they're needed. And they're needed so badly. I mean, you see it all over. And yeah, the bad influence is not behind the corner.

1:11:18It's in your living room. And when you are not controlling your youngsters and you're not controlling the kids and you're not like forbidding something from happening or to being transmitted because everything is in the open. You can do everything. I mean, in the web, I mean, GPT or any other questions they want to ask. I mean, you can do and you can go into different directions and everything that has to be controlled should must or must be controlled even better these days. I totally believe in it. And I'm, together with you, I'm absolutely worried about it. And I think it's very important on the final note, because people, when they talk about Charlie Kirk, understandably, he was a political figure.

1:11:58He was a huge figure on social media. but let's put all of that to one side charlie was a father of two he was a 31 year old man his wife is pregnant with their third child and he was murdered in front of her that's that is the most important thing i didn't know that that is the most important thing it's not politics it's not social media it's not left right or anything else i listened to her twice i totally agree with you and i listened to her twice very impressive woman the first time she said charlie's worlds

1:12:31Francis Foster:will be echoed even higher now number one which is super important because it was trying to make a conversation another conflict and this is the only way to solve things even if we are different and number two is she said i forgive the killer uh that needs a lot i mean from from within that shows who they are exactly and um i mean sending her my best condolences and and to strengthen what she is doing, I would be very happy to help, exactly messaging all that, saying that we need to correct all that with open conversation and not conflicting. And by the way, politicians all over the world, I mean, not all of them, but part of them are part of it.

1:13:18They're trying to polarize us so to win the next elections. Okay? If I'm telling you that he's so bad, I mean, you will never vote for him, even if you thought that he's not that bad. But now they are presenting you as whatever. I mean, the worst person on earth. And no one will eventually dare voting for you. And this is something that has to be stopped as well. I mean, I refer to that in one of the podcasts in Israel recently. And I said that the thing that we believe that in order to win the other side's hearts, to bring people from one side to our side, to our direction, is to polarize us one against the other is super wrong.

1:14:00And I think that it can create more than different thoughts. It can create hate and then crime and then hatred on a certain level and then crime again. So it's kind of a closed circle that will eventually, I mean, it doesn't let the youngsters or the others to go away from this circle because this is only what they consume. And this consumption, I mean, should be eventually corrected and stopped in a way. I'm not sure if I have the entire method to do that, but I think that you have.

1:14:35Francis Foster:No one knows how. But anyway, Josie, it's been great talking to you. We're going to ask you questions from our supporters in a second. Before we do, what is the one thing that we are not talking about at the global level, at the society level, that we should be? I think that we have to talk about unity. And I think that what we have discussed just recently, this is one thing that we have to be discussing in length and in depth, is unity. I think that we are much more similar than it seems. I think that we have much more in common than it looks like. And I think that we have to prefer our unification rather than polarization.

1:15:13And this is something that we don't discuss enough, not in Israel, not outside of the state of Israel.

1:15:19Francis Foster:Yossi Khan, thank you very much. Head on over to Substack where we ask you your questions. Did Mossad think that Saddam Hussein had a weapon of mass destruction before the invasion in 2003?

1:15:55We'll be right back.