Our Thoughts on Gaza Ceasefire

19:34Konstantin Kisin:I think that is where I don't Could you make a logical coherent argument For the fact that is

19:43Francis Foster:Well there are a lot of these retards Right that think that Because they don't know anything They think well you know I don't think Israel should be a Jewish state I think we just like need a You know Just you know a greater Palestine in which Jews and Muslims live peacefully ever after together. Is that anti-Semitic? I don't think so. It's retarded, but it's not anti-Semitic.

20:09Konstantin Kisin:But then I think, why is, and this is a quote, this is a number that was quoted. I don't think it's true. It's probably significantly less, but let's just take the number that was quoted, I think, by Zahra Sultana. Half a million people on the streets. What motivates you?

20:27Francis Foster:I can tell you, because this is something I discussed with Chris Williamson when I was on his show. Those of us who are on our side of many arguments, we have to carefully think through the arguments of the people we don't agree with. Imagine I'm Zahra Sultana, and you say, well, why are you on the streets? Israel is a settler colonial state, and it shouldn't exist because it's a colonizer, and colonizing states are evil and wrong, and it shouldn't be there.

20:58Konstantin Kisin:okay, but I don't understand why Israel, above all else, motivates you to such an extent that it's actually dementing, that even a ceasefire happens and you're like, no, actually, like, Jeremy Corbyn tweeted this, and we'll put the tweet up, and he pinned it, and it was just like, oh, yeah, but we're going to keep on marching. Like, out of all the things happening in the world...

21:25Francis Foster:They might say they want a path to Palestinian statehood. That's what they're going to march for. They want a separate, independent country for the Palestinians. And they're going to keep marching until they get it. Okay.

21:43Konstantin Kisin:But above everything, why? Why that? Do you see what I mean? Out of all the issues, out of everything happening in the world, There's genuine genocides happening in Sudan, in Syria. You'd apply to the Muslim Uyghurs. Why this? And why do you keep marching even after the war has been stopped?

22:12Francis Foster:That's a very insightful question, I think. It's a very insightful question. and I partly see I think part of the answer that you're you're I think proving the claim you made which is a lot of this is about anti-semitism I also think there's probably a broader thing that I'm sure you'd agree with me as well which is it's anti-westernism a lot of these people they they hate the west and they see Israel rightly as an outpost of western civilization in the Middle East. So if you can't destroy the West, I mean, these people are trying as hard as they can to destroy the West, but this is like a point where it's actually vulnerable, where it could be destroyed.

22:53Francis Foster:And I think a lot of their antipathy towards Israel is that they are challenged, in the same way that, you know, you and I have had the experience that Irish people, particularly people from Northern Ireland, particularly Catholics, like are incredibly deranged about this issue. The only time I get people messaging me really hateful stuff is Irish comedians that I used to gig with about this conflict. And it's not because they care about Palestinians, let's be honest. They see themselves in that conflict, their trauma, the experiences of their families, which I have obviously empathy for, but it doesn't apply to Israel.

23:34Francis Foster:But my point is people project their own shit onto that conflict from all sorts of different perspectives. And I think the anti-Westerners like Corbyn, the people who actually hate this country and Western civilization in general, they project that onto Israel. And Israel is much more vulnerable. It's much easier to destroy than the United States, for example. So I think it's partly about anti-Semitism and partly it's part of their broader agenda. Yeah.

24:00Konstantin Kisin:And I've been following a lot of the hard left because as you see our economy struggle, as you see the gap between rich and poor widen, as you see young people being unable to afford to get on the property ladder or have the middle class life, shall we just call it, that their parents and grandparents enjoyed, the more radicalized they've become, which I understand actually and I have a certain degree of empathy for. And we've seen the far left grow in prominence. And we've seen that with the rise of Zach Polanski, your party, etc., etc., Zahra Sultana. But I've noticed their rhetoric becoming actually and becoming far more emboldened and far more strident.

24:44Konstantin Kisin:You saw Zach Polanski on Question Time call people in reform fascists. And you think to yourself, have you forgotten it was a matter of weeks ago that Charlie Kirk was murdered? can you not understand how that rhetoric is profoundly dangerous can you not understand that labeling people who are in reform fascists would to some people particularly some people who are unstable who unfortunately there are always unstable people in this society you are making a target of these politicians and these supporters you had Zahra Sultana in a speech saying that we need to fight fascists we need to fight fascists in the ballot box in parliament I'm like, OK, right.

25:23Konstantin Kisin:And on the streets. And you're going, hang on a second. Is someone wearing an England shirt or wearing an England flag? Is that a fascist? Does that therefore mean that you can kick them, punch them? Because if that's what you're saying, then that is incredibly dangerous.

25:41Francis Foster:Well, and interesting, I mean, he's not someone who gets a lot of credit from here on Trigonometry, but he deserves credit. Lewis Goodall on LBC interviewed Zach Polanski and he asked him, you know, here are the basic criteria for fascism, basic core definitions of fascism. You know, complete control of the state, no democracy, lots of other things. Which of these does Farage match? And Polanski had no answer for this. So you've described Nigel Farage as a fascist. Now, fascism, the last time I checked, involved ultra-authoritarian nationalism, the suppression of dissent, a single-party state, a cult of personality, and the use of violence or paramilitarism to achieve its end.

26:18Francis Foster:Which of those criteria would you say, Nigel Farage, satisfies?

26:21Konstantin Kisin:I think most of them were on the way, if you actually listened to the things that he's saying. What, a single-party state? He's not proposed to abolish British democracy. That's absurd. He's not yet, but also during Brexit, when you think about take back control, some of the themes that were in there all seemed to be speaking...

26:34Francis Foster:Well, you think that Brexit was about the consolidation and the creation of a single-party state?

26:39Konstantin Kisin:I think Brexit was ultimately about protecting the wealth of multimillionaires and billionaires.

26:43Francis Foster:No, no, no, you're changing the conversation there, Zat Pulaski. I've just asked you about how you think Nigel Farage satisfies the criteria of fascism, one of which involves a really key one, the creation of a single-party state. What has Nigel Farage said or done which would indicate any legitimacy to the idea that he's in favour of a single-party state?

27:00Konstantin Kisin:Well, I was about to finish with what I was saying, which is when you have excess power in this country and wealth, which often come together, when that utilizes working class resentment, you don't have to be a historian to know there are many times in the history when that's exactly when fascism begins. Now, it does not begin, as people say, in jackboots. It doesn't begin always with militarism. It actually begins with the kind of rhetoric we're saying. So if you're asking me, is Nigel Farage in full-blown fascist rhetoric? Absolutely not. But if you actually listen, and Lewis, you're someone who listens very closely to the things he's saying.

27:31Konstantin Kisin:He's constantly echoing things that have happened in history. And by the way, in this conversation, Keir Starmer doesn't get off lightly either. If you're going to go on stage and quote Enoch Powell, now he says he didn't know that's what he was doing, but that's not what he meant. I don't believe that for a second.

27:46Francis Foster:You're the one who said that we need to have more nuance and complexity in our conversations. And yet you're the one calling Nigel Farage a fascist. One of the things I have to say, I think the media need to do a much better job, as Lewis on that occasion did, of actually holding these claims up to the light of scrutiny. If you want to go on a major TV channel, on a major program like Question Time in this country, and call someone from a mainstream Democratic Party a fascist, you need to be challenged. You need to be challenged. And it's one of the reasons that Polanski, who we have invited on our show many times, is dodging, because he knows that in a very respectful way, we are going to challenge him.

28:25Francis Foster:And he just, he knows he's going to get wrecked. And that's why he won't come on. And I think it's cowardly. I think these people, if you want to make your bold claims, you're most welcome to. But you need to come on a program like ours where you're going to get lots of time, but you are going to get challenged. Otherwise, I just think it's weak. And Polanski's weak.

28:45Konstantin Kisin:I completely agree. I completely agree. And it's not only weak, it's incredibly dangerous. We all know, and look, we've said it time and time again, society is more polarized than ever, which unfortunately seems to be the case. You know, people are angry. People are resentful. And then you're going to throw the fascist word in the mix and you're going to start throwing that about. You best be very careful. You best be careful. And if you're going to make that allegation, that's the same as saying to someone, oh, you see that bloke over there? yeah, he's a rapist. Well, you best be sure that you can back that up.

29:22Francis Foster:Do you know, I don't know that it's like saying you're a rapist, because I think in our society now, I think being a Nazi is much worse than being a rapist and the way that people think about it. Like somebody could go to prison for rape, come out and be rehabilitated. And we've seen people like that. If you're a Nazi, I don't think that's a stain that ever washes off. So when they call people Nazis, they're really, they're putting a target on their back. And, you know, it's, like you say, it's been a few weeks, a few weeks after Charlie Kirk was murdered by a guy who was quote unquote anti-fascist.

30:00Francis Foster:And Charlie was not a fascist, but he was killed by someone who was anti-fascist. So what does that tell you? When you call people fascist, you're putting a target on their back. Now, we live in a country where fortunately people don't have guns, so it's harder to do this. But we also live in a country in which it's far less common for people in public life to have security. So when you're calling members of reform, does that mean that every politician now, if they lead a popular party, they've got to have a security team? Is that think so. But if this sort of rhetoric continues, and you and I have made this point for years now, if I thought that fascism was here, if I thought that literally Hitler was about to take charge of the country, I would feel it would be my duty to participate in a forceful, i.e.

30:54Francis Foster:violent movement to oppose it. Because that's what you do. That's what our great ancestors did. That's what your granddad did. That's what my granddad and my great-grandfather did. They went, picked up a rifle and went to the front line to fight Nazis. So what are you doing when you're labeling people who are just mainstream democratically elected people as Nazis? You're putting them in that same category of people who must be violently opposed. It's incredibly dangerous. It's incredibly dangerous.

31:22Konstantin Kisin:And they're responsible. And the worst bit is, is they just seem just to fling this word about. They just hurl it about like it's nothing. Like it's genuinely nothing. And you go 2016, that's not even 10 years ago. Joe Cox was murdered, an MP, by a far-right extremist. And then you go Sir David Amos, which was, I think, 2022. You go, those are two MPs. And you're putting forward this rhetoric. And you're saying the same word again, and again, and again. And we know how propaganda works. You repeat the same thing again and again until people go, oh yeah, they are.

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33:15Francis Foster:Click the link in the description or go to pure-gold.co slash trigger to get your free copy of the investor guide. That's pure-gold.co slash trigger. Take control of your financial future today. And if you want to think about how people sort of assume that whatever's happening in the current moment is like normal, I remember Boris Johnson cycling to work as prime minister. Yeah. Or maybe foreign secretary, David Cameron cycling. Like a not very popular, David Cameron, for example, prime minister could go to work on a bike. Now, you know, he had his team around him somewhere, but do you see what I'm saying?

33:54Francis Foster:Sure. This level of unsafety for public figures is completely new and it's partly a product of this rhetoric. And let's be honest, you and I really always try to find the truth in among the polarizing chatter of both sides. That's how we've always approached it. but this is only coming from one side. Yeah. I don't hear the right talking about how Zach Polanski is like Stalin. That's not happening. No, no one is creating an environment where those people are likely to be the subject of violence, but it's happening the other way. You know, we've been to, you know, I remember, I think it was a spectator party.

34:41Francis Foster:You and I were standing outside waiting for an Uber. And Nigel Farage came out and it was like burly blokes just like pushing everyone out of the way. And it's not because he's trying to look like a rapper with a massive... It's because he needs a massive security team now. Why? Why should the leader of a major British party in a country that historically has no history of political violence? We're not like America. How many prime ministers have been assassinated in this country? I don't I don't know, but I don't think this really happened. We're not a violent country in that way. But it's now got to the point.

35:16Francis Foster:And that's partly because these people were perfectly happy with milkshakes being thrown at people. Well, okay, you've demonstrated that someone can be attacked in that way. Now they have to get security.

35:26Konstantin Kisin:And it's also as well, they don't seem to understand that these things are escalatory. It will start with milkshakes and then they'll go, oh, you know what? Well, now that we've thrown a milkshake, why not a punch? and then it goes from there.

35:38Francis Foster:Why not put acid in that cup or whatever?

35:40Konstantin Kisin:Yeah, exactly. So the way that they're behaving is irresponsible, it's reckless and it's dangerous. But I'm also wondering why people on the right are not calling it out harder because I saw that clip from Zahra Sultana. Whatever you think about Zahra, she's becoming a major political force, particularly online. Online. Online. And you think to yourself, of why are people on the right, why are people on the left not coming out and going, this is unacceptable? We cannot do this. Because you know what happens if violence happens to people on the right? I'm guaranteeing you that that will in the end for increase the likelihood that it's going to happen to people on the left.

36:22Konstantin Kisin:Well, obviously. But they don't seem to understand this.

36:25Francis Foster:I just I just think the incentive structures, particularly online, are just so perverse now. It's like the more you can polarize and divide, the more attention you're going to get. And I really think it's time for people to take some responsibility for the things that they say. But it's not happening. I mean, look, if after Charlie Kirk is assassinated in the way that he is, you don't wake up and go, I really need to think about, do I really know what the word fascist actually means? I don't think there's any hope for these people. No. And so in that case, I just think they have to be thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly defeated at the ballot box.

37:06Francis Foster:That's what needs to happen.

37:08Konstantin Kisin:And I find it really, yeah, I agree with you. But the fact that they have these marches and the hundreds of thousands of people turn up, whatever the number is, and then you have Zara on that stage throwing around that word, riling people up. I'm going, there's going to be statistically one or two people in there who are not particularly stable. who have the propensity for violence. You know, there used to be a time where politicians would come out and call for peace, would calm people down and go, you know, this extremist rhetoric, violence is not the answer. This is not how we do things in Britain.

37:44Konstantin Kisin:We are a democracy. We sort our problems out by speaking. We do not do this. And I'm looking at some of these people going, I'm worried that those days are kind of slipping away from us.

37:59Francis Foster:They are slipping away from us. That is what you're seeing. That is what you're seeing. It's extremism all the way down if this carries on. Because the extremes of the left and right, they're mutually radicalizing, as you pointed out. If one goes too far, the other one is... And that is actually what happened in the 30s. You had communists and fascists fighting in the streets across Europe. That is what happened.

38:29The good thing, I think, is given the way the reform are doing in the polls,

38:37Francis Foster:it's becoming quite clear that it's their election to lose. You know, a lot of things will happen between now and the election. if they can win and if they can have a dominant victory then a lot of this can be put to bed just like we saw in america to a large extent right like i'm not saying polarization has gone in a way in america but when the election happened a lot of people just went you know what he's in charge now yeah he got elected he won the electoral college he won the popular vote etc, etc, etc. We need a government that has the mandate to make the major changes this country needs.

39:18Francis Foster:And if that's reform, or if that's a Tory reform coalition, not looking likely, or even if it's a Labour government with a massive mandate, because this government, you know, they actually tried to cut welfare, they just couldn't, because they don't have the mandate really for it and they struggle to do it. That's the one hope is that at the next election there is a sweeping to power of a party that has the mandate to go okay enough of this we're going to fix this we're going to change this we're going to sort this out. That's the big hope.

39:50Konstantin Kisin:That is the big hope and that's what I really really hope that we actually have a government who's going to come come in and actually be prepared to make unpleasant but necessary policies and choices. Because we've spoken about this many times, including in these episodes, we cannot keep going down the road that we're going down with this country. Eventually, you need to wake up, smell the proverbial coffee and realize that if we carry on down this road, it's going to enter this country being bankrupt. And when you see nations becoming bankrupt, people becoming poorer, naturally that leads to even more extremism, which then leads to people who we've just spoken about becoming even more powerful and people being more vulnerable to incendiary rhetoric.

40:35Francis Foster:And because of all of that, we're going to America.

40:37Konstantin Kisin:Yes.

40:38Francis Foster:No, we're not moving to America. I'm only joking. But we do a couple of trips a year to the US. We're about to go for a few weeks. We've got some super exciting guests. We never talk about, I guess, too far in advance because the moment we mention a guest, they invariably cancel. So we just jinx it. I'm super excited to go.

40:56Konstantin Kisin:Oh, I can't wait. It's going to be brilliant. It's going to be brilliant. The quality of the conversations that you can have in the US is just fantastic. I love doing the America guest because this country is brilliant. I don't want anyone having a meltdown. But because America is simply a more populated nation, that does mean that there is a depth of talent there that we can't match in this country.

41:18Francis Foster:You're being a little bit inauthentic there. It's not just about the population. America is also where everything happens Yeah, it's true Yeah, it is Like Keir Starmer came out and go Our foreign policy really helped to get the ceasefire You just go, what the f*** are you talking about? You were completely sidelined You had nothing to do with it America is where culture happens It's where politics happens It's the centre of Western civilisation now As Britain once was

41:46Konstantin Kisin:Yeah, exactly And the number of brilliant people that we're going to be talking to writers thinkers economists it's going to be so much youtubers youtubers people business people and just generally fascinating people to talk to we've got a really insightful view of the world i love going to america i really do and there's a point there's a time every trip where i'm like i could live here and then something happens i'm like yeah probably not yeah yeah well it's

42:16Francis Foster:something we've often thought about is like obviously from a from a business perspective it would be an incredible move for us uh but also we love this country and we love being here but we love visiting and we spend increasing amounts of time in the u.s so we're we're gonna go on joe rogan's show for the sixth time yep which is if you think about it there's not many people in the world who've been on on joe rogan six times most of the ones who have have a lot of brain damage because they're either comedians or UFC people yeah or both um so I don't know or Alex Jones oh I don't know what that's has he been on six times I don't think so hasn't he I don't know I haven't counted yeah but anyway my point is that's you know it's pretty special it is pretty

42:58Konstantin Kisin:special and I'm really looking forward to doing the show hanging out with Joe and like I said there's just a range of experiences and the people that you meet and it's so good just getting out of your own country and talking to people who see the world in a different way from a different culture and and sun and sun let's just be honest oh the sun the sun it's going to be great yeah well

43:21Francis Foster:and and one of the exciting things obviously we always go to a bunch of different cities yeah uh we often do an east coast trip and then west coast trip this time we're doing both uh so we're doing in this trip we're doing austin la san francisco which we've never been to yeah and i am do you know what, San Francisco I'm very excited about because I have seen that classic movie, The Rock, probably about a hundred times. My school friend and I used to watch that on an almost daily basis, but also some super cool guests. And it's a place we haven't been to before with the show. So we're going to have some great conversations there, LA, Austin, and then New York on the way back as well and hit a few of the regulars and some new people as well.

44:06Francis Foster:So it's a great mixture of new and recurring guests that I'm super excited about.

44:11Konstantin Kisin:I'm sorry. It's going to be... And you know the thing that excites me the most about these trips? The food. The food. Of course it's the food. Of course it's the food. No. It's the hidden gems that we didn't know. And then we just encounter like last trip it was Richard Miniter.

44:28Francis Foster:Yeah. That is... I don't know if you know but we were delighted when it hit a million views on YouTube. It's now 1.2. Wow. It's kept growing.

44:36Konstantin Kisin:Yeah. Well, because it's sublime. And so those are the ones who you just go, you kind of feel like someone who's searching and you just find this little gem and then you just show it to the world.

44:48Francis Foster:Yeah. And, you know, we've got a lot of guests that we've never had on the show. So we're going to find out and you never know what they're like, but all very, very exciting. Also some returning guests as well. I really want to tell people who they are, but I can't. You know, it'd be interesting to talk to, to some of our friends who we've had on the show who are not fans of Trump. Yeah. We'll be as vague as that. Yeah. To find out how they feel about Trump now, that he's secured peace in the Middle East and, you know, lots of other conversations. So it should be a lot of fun and some amazing episodes to see our, to see us through to Christmas.

45:25Konstantin Kisin:It will do. It was going to be absolutely incredible. And as always, if you want to get the first dibs, the first look at the amazing guests, there's only one place to do it.

45:34Francis Foster:Well, you're talking about Substack, which is of course triggerpod.co.uk and we have a very special offer right now. People can sign up and get 20 % off membership if they want to do it in the next few days, which obviously gives them a chance to ask our guest questions, to know who those guests are before we interview them and lots of other amazing bonus content on there as well. So they can take advantage of that. If you haven't signed up already, we'd like you to know you're a bad person and you should be ashamed of yourself. You're probably a fascist. We'll be right back.