Uncapped #44 | Max Junestrand from Legora

16:14Max Junestrand:So basically having Legora be accessible wherever the lawyer is already working. And we were still called Leia back then. Like this was very early. We took the entire company, we had like a town hall. And I remember showing some numbers where like a particular company that just had one of these features were doing more revenue than us. We were doing like 1.5 million at the time. That felt very painful because we thought that we had a better suite, but we didn't have as much revenue because we were based in Sweden and we were sort of mostly selling to still European firms at the time. So we just said, let's do these three things.

16:47Max Junestrand:Let's do them better than anyone else. And it's going to be worth to buy our suite over anybody else's. And so I wrote this like very short product manifesto, send it out to the entire company and we sort of rallied the troops. I think it was off the back of that that we had our first quarter where we doubled revenue. So we went from like 1.5 to 4. We're like, oh, this is like ripping and it's flying off the shelves. And then in Q1, we had another quarter where we doubled, where we went from like 4 to 8. Like, whoa, okay, now we're talking. And if it came time to launch in the US, we hired Patrick and Evan, who joined from a competitor.

17:24Max Junestrand:And we sort of had our first boots on the ground in the US. and then we felt like, okay, what we have is like a winning formula. So we just need to crunch it out everywhere. And now I think we're at another interesting point in time where we've built all these different tools, but the paradigm from now onwards is humans are probably not going to work with all these tools. Like basically agents will leverage the tools that we built. So I remember early when MCP came, our CTO basically went, well, now Legora has two users. It's human users and agent users. And every new feature that we build has to be able to cater to both.

18:05Max Junestrand:And now we're seeing more people basically use our agent that uses the tabular grid, or our agent who uses our word editing capabilities, than humans actually going and using those features at all.

18:16Jack Altman:Chase made a cool point to me recently, which is that because we were talking about how you know, companies that are pre-AI and companies that are just fully AI native just have to be built differently in various ways. And the fact that you didn't build a pre-AI company, I think gives you sort of like, you know, this unshackled mind to like, you're not even trying to think about some past alternative. You're just like, given what's in front of me, what should a company look like? And, you know, you talked about how like having YC founders inside the company has been helpful. And I'm sure there's like a lot there, but I'm curious about what are the main tenets that you've observed?

18:53Jack Altman:Because now you've probably hired a lot of people who did work and built companies pre-AI. What do you think are the main tenets, ideas, cultural concepts that have been important to you just to make it work in a fully AI-native world?

19:08Max Junestrand:Yeah, so I think this idea that Chetan brought up around, you have to be willing to kill the stuff that you've done in the past is very important. because I think in more traditional software, you had to build the foundations and then you build the stuff on top of it and you sort of kept building the stack. And in that world, it was also very good to have like a technical architecture where one feature would rely on the same microservices as like other features. But the problem is in AI, like maybe that feature now needs to scale really, really quickly. And the cost of writing software is so low that it's basically better to build your own stack for like each thing.

19:46Max Junestrand:And now that we hire, you know, finance professionals or even like lawyers internally to Legora or we just hired our first like tax person. I think they come with a set of ideas of like, oh, this is how I used to do it in my old company. And everybody's forced to relearn, I think, and also question what their value is on top of the general model capabilities in a way, which is like very painful. Totally.

20:13Jack Altman:Brett Taylor talked about this on this podcast, too. basically that like people are going to build something and six months later we might just kill that thing and everybody needs to be comfortable with that which i think historically would be a lot of painful internal conversations like do you have to change is that like a different

20:27Max Junestrand:culture for people i think it's a different culture completely i mean i think the culture is you don't maximize for your function like you maximize for the company always and i'm very upfront with every exec who joins Legora that in a way, like you're joining with an expiration date and you have to continuously prove that you like scale out of that in a way, because the company is scaling so exponentially. And I don't know if it was Mark Zuckerberg or somebody talked about like, let's hire people with high Y slopes and not like high Y intercepts. I think about that a lot, mostly because I've had to do that, right?

21:06Max Junestrand:Like I did not join or start Legora with a lot of experience. But I've proven that at every new point in time, I've scaled with the business. And so other people in Nagora needs to do the same. And I think that goes for every function. And, you know, I think an engineering team that's shipping the amount that we do previously had to be like 500 people. And now we can get away with being 50. And I think there's even a question of like, do we need to be more than 100 engineers? Or is the bottleneck here really knowing what to build and building it in the right way and designing an experience that works for hundreds of thousands of people that we now have on the platform?

21:50Max Junestrand:I think the paradigm is shifting all the time. What's nice about our work is that engineering is sort of a roadmap of what's going to happen in other industries too. Like I think the general models have come the furthest in coding, but also those organizations are very quick to adopt and shift. And so like engineering orgs are today looking slightly different. And I think we can expect the same in legal organizations.

22:15Jack Altman:Two things you brought up that you should be great if you could dive into. One is Legora doesn't really have a long-term roadmap. Like you guys react and build today. And, you know, when you first got started, you had this like nearly weekly cadence where that's how long you would roadmap to. And these days it feels like you almost roadmap on a daily cadence. And so like things change tomorrow. Like you wake up and it's like we have to do something different. Talk about that lack of roadmap. And then also the other thing that you've invested heavily in is just understanding model capability and the sort of proprietary eval infrastructure you've built where you've had these conversations with the foundation model companies of how you're able to identify latent model capabilities that they themselves are not aware of.

23:06Max Junestrand:I mean, on roadmap, like way back, every new model just like unlocked new things. Right. And when we got early access to GPD, like 4.5, and you just realize that, holy shit, like now it can finally draft like an end to end thing. And we don't need like all this harnesses and like things around it. That's amazing. Like, let's unleash it in a way that that works.

23:28Jack Altman:By the way, to do that, you need sort of like a low ego organization because you build all this IP and all this software. Yeah. And you're like, okay, now the model can do it. Delete it all. You worked really hard for six months. We're deleting everything.

23:42Max Junestrand:It's incredible. But I think a lot of the things that we have built, we know that we're going to delete someday.

23:47Jack Altman:And I guess you kind of need people to opt into that at the front end for that culture to really work.

23:51Max Junestrand:We've also talked about it as like, if we're here today and we start building for the future that's over here, that's too far out. Our customers are not going to adopt that. They don't understand it yet. So we need to take them on the journey and we need to take them on the path of being successful, which I think every iteration cycle now is shorter. Like back in 2023, 2024, I think it was like slightly longer. Like you'd have a quarter or two quarters because the models weren't moving that fast. Every upgrade was pretty incremental. But now it's like flipped. Opus 4.6 flipped in capabilities.

24:25Max Junestrand:So now we have to revisit a lot of the things that we built. Do you know what the next flip you're waiting for is?

24:31Jack Altman:Like, is there a thing?

24:31Max Junestrand:So actually I don't think, so it was funny. I was at the customer advisory board at Anthropic yesterday, which is I'm wearing my like Dario shirt here. You look like Dario. Thank you. Most of that conversation was about the models are now intelligent enough where they're no longer the bottleneck. The bottleneck is all of the software around putting the models in an environment where they can execute and do work and humans can review that work in like a trustworthy way. They're seeing that across basically every single vertical and every single company. So I don't really think that we're waiting for new model capabilities anymore.

25:08Max Junestrand:There's nice things to have. It's nice to have better context windows. It allows us to do less garbage and context management. Or when you overflow the context in memory and so on, you have to deal with it to refresh it. So there's nice to haves. But I think we're at a point now where we just have so much building in front of us in terms of bringing the model capabilities into our world that that's where all of our focus is. I think on sort of discovering what the models can do, we thought very early on that evals were going to be important and both building up like an exercise of building new evals, but also building out evals for all the use cases that we want to cover for.

25:45Max Junestrand:Because in the beginning, it was a lot of like, oh, how's good? How good is Sonnet? How good is Gemini? How good is GPT? And so we had to test them on the different evals. And a lot of our customers actually contributed this. So they would give us manual tasks that they used to do. And they tell us, here's the evals, and we're going to call you when we can get to 100 % on these evals. And I actually remember it was a funds related use case, an LPA key term review report that a Danish law firm was spending like three days on, basically. Like an associate would spend three days putting together that report.

26:24Max Junestrand:In summer of 2024, we had like 60 % accuracy on that task. By the end of that summer, we had 100 % accuracy. And once you got to 100 % accuracy, I mean, that task is done. Like it's over. I've adopted this mentality internally that if AI can do something, it will do it. And so our product, like we think a lot about solving legal tasks end to end. And once a task is conquered, it's done. Like we'd just like strike it out. And we're on this path of solving more and more complex tasks. Like you start with NDAs, but at some point you get to full on share purchase agreements, which are very complex, but we're going to get there.

27:07Max Junestrand:I think the question for these organizations who are maybe more traditional and trying to keep up with the pace of AI is how do you do that while at the same time do your normal job, right? I think a lot of the organizations that we work with really struggle with keeping up with the technology uplift, even like our developments. And so we're, you know, we're struggling by getting all the latest models and then we're turning that into product and they have to adopt it. And then their customers and it's, yeah.

27:36Jack Altman:There's a question I think for both of you. As I'm listening to you talk, I'm sort of like, you know, I can sort of see the, you know, the hill climb that you're on where you've like attacked, you know, one part of it and the next one's coming and the next one's coming. and you know one of the things i'm thinking about is for let's say a new startup in legal what would the right strategy be for them like how do you possibly get into the mix fast enough or all of these things and then exit to lagora exit to selva lagora that's a good one how urgent is it to grow really big really fast for lagora given all the dynamics around chayton i'm curious like how do you think about this like is it the same urgency as always or do any of these dynamics mean that like getting to real scale is more urgent here than other places?

28:20Jack Altman:We can go back to sort of launch day, October 2024. So when they launched, you know, roughly the ARR of the business was rounded to a million dollars. If you just go back into that moment, you know, there was this exercise of should we make a budget? And, you know, what we all decided around the table was there was no reason to make a budget because we don't know anything about the market. We don't know if people even like our product. We had instincts, but like we just needed to go literally as fast as we could to get the product as many hands as we could, because ultimately the whole theory of the company didn't work until we got product feedback.

29:02Jack Altman:And so that was literally the aim. The aim was like, get this out as quickly as possible in as many hands as possible. and I think one of the things that Max did again this is like it's cliche to say it's first principles thinking but it is because it's like the team was unbiased by how to build a software company and so one of the things that you learned in SaaS was the way you do pilots is like you would go in do like a time trial pilot where you would like give them access to the application and the minute the trial was done you would turn it off and then they would have to make a purchasing decision.

29:39Jack Altman:A big thing that happened with Legora is they would go put Legora into your organization and whatever you put into Legora, they would like leave behind even if you didn't want it. And so there was this idea that like, hey, you adopted AI, you did stuff with AI, you built some practices, but you're not like whatever skills you built or whatever IP you built, it's kind of yours. and like we can leave that behind. It's not a big deal. It's like, it's your skills. It's your things that you've learned. And then Max went around and just gave people like 30-day pilot, 60-day pilot, whatever they wanted, 90-day pilots.

30:14Max Junestrand:And they would run these competitive pilots, right? So they would say, okay, there's a couple of companies on the market. We're going to want to A, B test all of them because it's really hard to pick just, you know, based on the feature set on your website. And in those pilots, I think we did an extraordinarily good job of delivering value. And so when the sort of 30 days were out, like if we shut it down, it would be a riot, right? Like people would roar and they'd be like, we've never seen software adoption like this in a legal organization. We need this and we need it now. And in those pilots, we would demonstrate much better than any other company the value that the product and the service around the product could bring.

30:57Max Junestrand:So we hired all these lawyers who are now called legal engineers. It's a great term, I think. Forward deployed legal engineers. I was just going to say, what about FDLE? FDLE. It's right. FDLE. And they're amazing. Like they're the most tech savvy lawyers in different organizations who don't want to make partner because like, you know, that's one type of life. And they want to work in a tech company. And now they get to work with their practice that they're amazing at and technology. And then they get to work with the best legal organizations in the world and like driving that change.

31:28Jack Altman:And I would think once you're embedded in these organizations, it's got to be sticky.

31:32Max Junestrand:I think Ligora is very sticky. We've ripped out our competition at many organizations at this point. What creates stickiness? So the stickiness is the use cases and the cadence. And, you know, if you've invested time in building up a workflow that like works for you, why would you want to switch? So is it that? Is it? It's usage. It's not data. No, not yet. Not any real technical implementation, which is great. because our competition has been deployed in a lot of places that sees no real usage or very simple use cases, which means that we can go there, show them, and display clearly in a pilot that we deliver much, much better, and then we can easily swap it.

32:16Max Junestrand:So we actually have a dedicated migration team moving deployments over to Lagora.

32:21Jack Altman:And I think this is where we often talked about not only product engineering velocity, which came naturally to the founders here because they were engineers, but also this idea of velocity of customer interaction, which was like, if a customer wanted to buy a certain way, wanted to do a pilot, whatever, just don't add friction. That was actually the key on luck, which was like, there was this idea of let's just go get this in everybody's hands and not to have any bias. And so one of my favorite stories about Max is that he came to San Francisco to sell a bunch of clients. And then, you know, he texted me and he was like, are you free for dinner?

33:01Jack Altman:So we met for dinner. And then he asked for a ride to the airport. And I casually asked, where are you going? Expecting to say Seattle or LA or something. And he was like, I'm going to New Delhi. I was like, why are you going to New Delhi? He was like, well, like one of the largest firms in India wants to buy. So I figured I'd like go give it to him. That's crazy. And so, you know this, in SaaS it was like, no, like, do the West Regional, then do like the East Regional, then do like Western Europe, and then eventually hire an APEC head. And then it was like this thing. And because this company didn't...

33:35Jack Altman:And by the way, there's going to be like a year of engineering work to be even kind of ready to serve India. And because like this company and this team had never built a pre-AI software company, they didn't know they weren't supposed to go sell in India early, like one quarter into like selling the product. So Max got on a flight, went to India and a customer in India bought. So it was one of those things where like because they didn't have the patterns, they were able to get big globally in parallel. You know what I also wonder on this? We talked about this a little bit, that like being a Europe-based company means that you are multinational from the beginning.

34:16Jack Altman:You have to. And I think this, I'm sure some of this is pre-AI, and I think it, I mean, a lot of it is. I also think there's a thing where like, if you started in Europe, you've already learned how to sell to 10 countries. And you know that there's differences in the way that the cultures work and the way they purchase software and what the rules are and the regulations and these things. And so I'm curious if you thought about that when you invested and you're like, well, actually, maybe coming to the US will be easier one day.

34:42Max Junestrand:I'm curious your experience on that. I mean, Y Combinator weren't particularly excited about backing a company in Sweden. I remember the first interview with Gustav and he's Swedish, like a Swedish partner at YC. And he goes, so you're going to move to the States, right? And I go, yes, yes, of course. That's the cue to say yes, so that you get the invite to go to YC.

35:02Jack Altman:No, I'm good in Sweden. You guys are opening a sweet enough to YC.

35:06Max Junestrand:And then I came to YC and I left three days later because I had so much business going on in Sweden and I couldn't do work between 1 a.m. and 10 a.m. Like that was just impossible. But, you know, like the Swedish legal market is smaller than Kirkland and Ellis. So, of course, you have to expand. And naturally, we went to Finland and then we went to Denmark. Then I was like, well, I think we got the hang of it. And the most important thing was like the first customer we got, Mannheimer Svartling, the big firm in Sweden. And their managing partner had such a good relationship with the other firms in other non-competitive countries that he would just introduce me.

35:43Max Junestrand:And I would fly down. And I'd say the same thing as I told him, like, AI is going to change the world. You're going to need a partner. I'm here. Let's work. You know, that sort of made it all start. But then the move to the UK and the US was like when we really started ripping. How different was coming to the US versus going to Finland? Not at all. I had a rule. So there's actually a few Swedish companies that tried to go to the US, but did so unsuccessfully, like Klarna. They tried many times before they actually made it work. And my rule was, if we can serve two of the biggest clients in the world or in the US from Stockholm, then we're ready.

36:22Max Junestrand:And then we'll open an office here. So Cleary Gottlieb, amazing Wall Street firm, and Goodwin and Procter. And we served them both. We won their business in competitive pilots and we could serve them from Sweden. Like we did a lot of flights back and forth. But after they signed, we said, OK, amazing. Now we're ready. Let's open an office here.

36:43Jack Altman:So one thing about the market structure of legal that we knew about here at Benchmark ahead of investing is that legal has this unique market feature that it's a services industry. And in services industries, technology adoption is slow at first and then rapid later. So if you just look at any marketplace idea in a services area, it's like the marketplaces are usually like supply constrained. And then the minute supply unlocks, all of the supply comes online into the market and then you become demand constrained. And so if you study marketplaces, especially marketplaces around services, this is something that you just like fundamentally learn as like one of the rules of marketplaces.

37:29Jack Altman:And so in legal, the market structure is such that like the initial adoption will be very slow and hard. But once it unlocks, it like really unlocks. There's some kind of like exponential viral coefficient that happens there. That's one part about the legal industry that's really interesting. And then how it overlays into software in legal is that if you look at the most successful legal software companies, they were all started in Europe. Pre-AI too, by the way. I had a hypothesis that part of the reason why you get that way is that you're used to selling the multi-geography and multi-rule systems from day zero.

38:06Jack Altman:So, for example, Lagora sold to a Swedish firm. Yeah, that makes sense. And a Spanish firm and a Finnish firm. And so, yes, there are like laws at the European Union level. Yeah, but like from the beginning, this needs to work for many people. That's right. And if you start in the US, what you end up designing is that there's the federal legal system. There's a state legal system and there's regional. But it's not as bifurcated as like literally different countries.

38:32Max Junestrand:And different languages.

38:33Jack Altman:And different languages. And so you build all this stuff on day zero that you don't if you start in San Francisco. And one of the interesting things that Max showed us in the prototype in the first meeting is he had multi-language support already built. And he had like multi-legal framework support already built.

38:52Max Junestrand:I remember. I demoed Sweden and Spain.

38:55Jack Altman:That's right. And that was like remarkably impressive because it was a company with five people thinking global scale. Yeah. Because they were forced to because they couldn't serve the Stockholm legal market. Totally. Those two things just meant from they launched the product, they got a bunch of people to sign, that immediately it was like, let's go get the two big firms in every geography because we have to. And it was global from day one.

39:20Max Junestrand:And now, I mean, LaGuardia, I think, has become a hub in, like a technology hub in Europe. People from Germany, from the Netherlands, from Spain, from Italy, they're all moving to Stockholm, even in the winter.

39:34Jack Altman:So talk about the culture part of it, which I think stands out a lot. And so it's hard to describe to people what it's like to visit the Lagora office. I mean, when you came back from a Lagora visit recently, you were like, oh my God, they are so good. Like something's going on there that I haven't seen before. It sounded different. I don't know if it's Lagora specific or if it's like something that is, you know, happens in Sweden that can't happen in America, but like you were affected by it. It's true. Initially, even in the group of five or in that group of 10 in September of 2024, or Group of 15, however big the company was, there was like a common thread amongst everybody.

40:10Jack Altman:They were like deeply technical, deeply intense, and a desire to win. And they were like thinking globally from like day zero. And because they were in Stockholm, they also decided to recruit all over Europe from day zero to bring people to the Stockholm office. And so what ended up happening is I think you end up becoming a magnet for anybody that wants to build at the forefront of AI with a level of intensity and determination, this idea of like wanting to win. So like, what did it feel like to you on your recent trip? There's like a few hundred people in there. Like, what did that feel like?

40:44The level of engagement and buy-in to the company mission was truly unique.

40:52Jack Altman:And I think the company has done a great job with this idea of building for the company. and I really do think building an AI company is like a real test in ego. It's like you literally can't have an ego because you have to have this idea that AI is just going to do this. It's going to be better than us at everything at some point. And they're going to, it's just going to do this. The foundation model will do this capability and I'm like puzzling through this and it's really hard and it's an amazing feature. And, you know, we have these high bars of quality and polish. So we're going to like ship fast.

41:28Jack Altman:work really hard, build this amazing feature, and it's going to disappear within 12 weeks, requires an extreme amount of buy-in and an extreme amount of humility that we're just riding this massive wave and we don't know where it's taking us. But every day we solve today's problems and we don't worry about tomorrow because it's a different world. There's a different type of energy buy-in cadence that comes with that culture. And I think that it's really interesting. The disadvantage of Stockholm has now become LaGora's advantage of being in Stockholm, which is that their talent population that they get to hire from is not just in Stockholm.

42:08Jack Altman:It's all over Europe. And now it's like all over the world. Because anybody that has that attitude is welcome to come join Stockholm.

42:16Max Junestrand:I think our competition is, you know, has remote days, like three days in office. everybody leaves at six like from from very early on like we serve dinner at eight every day a lot of people in in our region are sort of tired about like all these big american winners and we know that we have the talent and the grit and the prerequisites to build a generational company like yeah we had to go to the u.s to raise money because we want to work with the best vcs in the world but like there is a a level of like we can also do it right and we have spotify just on the street how are you going to get this level of fervor in the u.s i think we have i think we have a very unique culture in our new york office is it different or it's very different like people well it's not different from stockholm oh okay but it's we seeded it with the you know the culture carriers from sweden i came to new york and i spent i think tactically this was a really cool

43:18Jack Altman:thing they did which was i think like you should tactically talk about how you make everybody interview in stockholm yeah and then they have to onboard in stockholm everybody so you live in

43:29Max Junestrand:new york you're going to join the new york office you're going to stock on board in stockholm yeah people who join in sydney have to go on a 24-hour flight to onboard in stockholm so you can't

43:38Jack Altman:onboard anywhere else but stockholm yeah and then when they first opened the first international office which was new york and actually london too you did this with which is like people that were based in Stockholm moved to those offices to set a cadence. It was like, it's all going to be the same as Stockholm.

43:57Max Junestrand:And like the Germans who joined Legora, like they have to move to Stockholm and they'll work here a year and then they can move back to open the German office. Like you have to get it right.

44:06Jack Altman:It's a fascinating thing where, you know, I've been part of many companies that have many offices and every office tends to take its own character. And I remember the founders of Lagora saying, we want every office to feel the same, which was itself a different way of thinking. Every time Max has had me visit the company, I visit during dinnertime, which is 8 p.m. Like that's when they have guests is like 8 p.m. And that's been the case in every office. And so that's another like thing that happened at this company. And it's interesting to me that it continues to scale, which is like you can continue to onboard in Stockholm because like every, the 400 people that joined before you onboard in Stockholm.

44:51Max Junestrand:So you should too. I mean, the only reason why we have that rule was because I did an internship at McKinsey and we'd have dinner at it. So I was like, I guess that's how you do this. Totally.

45:02Jack Altman:It's also like in some ways doing the US office in New York. Obviously it's not like it's an outsider city, but from a tech perspective, there's a lot of people in New York like, I want to work at like a great tech company. And, you know, there's obviously been more there than in Stockholm, but it's still different than San Francisco. And so I think you could probably bring some of that cultural thing there as a result of that.

45:21Max Junestrand:And now we just opened in Houston and we're opening in Chicago. It's all the big legal hubs. Is this correct? Did you do a reference with Daniel Ek? Yes. Yeah. And I think I heard this from you. You asked him about like, what is the culture at Leia? And I think he said something like, they're pretty intense. That's right. We were very upfront with that even in interviews. And not intense to the point where it's not fun, but being number two in this space is not an outcome worth fighting for. Then we might as well go do something else. We're only going to play here to win. You think number one, number two will just be vastly different outcomes?

46:01Oh, yeah, completely.

46:02Max Junestrand:And it doesn't actually matter if that's the case or not. Gives you the right mindset.

46:07Jack Altman:Yeah.

46:07Max Junestrand:Like I think everybody's dialed into that. And I remember doing this interview in Swedish and there's a saying that you like, like blood smock. And you know, like you taste the blood and because you worked so hard. Yeah. And I basically told her in Swedish that, yeah, you know, sometimes I wake up and, you know, it's a Swedish saying. I'm like, I'm like, I have coffee, I taste the blood. And then she publishes the article in English. And the saying doesn't make any sense in English. It's like Max is bloodthirsty. No, it's like the Lagora founders wake up. At Lagora, we wake up with a metallic taste of blood in our mouths.

46:47Max Junestrand:And people in the company go, holy shit, is Max a vampire? Or does he just floss badly? And what's going on? How do you feel about that now? Now it's become this thing. Like the Americans are hashtag bloomed smock. Like everybody's in on it. It's amazing. It's a cult.

47:01Jack Altman:I mean, I can like feel the energy of it. It's not like a culture that I think would quite work in San Francisco. I don't know if that's something that you can do uniquely.

47:09Max Junestrand:Well, when we open our San Francisco office, they're going to taste the blood. Yeah, they're going to taste the blood. I love it.

47:15Jack Altman:All right, my last question is, you just raised a big round, which is awesome. Congrats. What has this been for the future? What's coming?

47:22Max Junestrand:Well, maybe first off, just to give you a bit of insight into the round, like every round at Legora since Chetan has been a preempted round. I don't think I've ever actually gone out to fundraise since you did the round. Yeah, it's been very pleasant. It's been very pleasant. We actually also have a history of taking the lowest term sheet. I remember taking, we were actually, so this is funny, we were negotiating the number of shares that Chetan was going to buy on Excel in front of us. And he goes, I've never ever bought a company where it didn't get 20%. And I go, well, I'm never going to dilute more than 17.5%.

48:00Max Junestrand:And we sort of look at each other and go, well, I guess we're in a bit of a stalemate here. it was like the immovable object meets the force and so we like just put down Excel we write down the exact number of shares and we start going decimal by decimal until we're both

48:17Jack Altman:that's such, that is so legal

48:19Max Junestrand:coded, like just the nerdy Excel, it was wild so you end up investing like 9.521 and we're both equally unhappy or happy I think we were both happy but the Series D has been really great because it's the first time I've done it together with someone else. So David, our CFO, who just joined from Vanta, he's an absolute monster. It was funny. We had our company-wide kickoff and you get to pick the song you want to walk out to. And he goes, Max, I want Monster by Kanye West. And I go, okay, dude. And it's like the lights drop and I'm like, I have a big surprise for you, everyone. David is joining us as our CFO.

49:05Max Junestrand:And the speakers just explode. And I don't know if you've heard the song. Yeah, of course. And everyone's like, holy shit, what's going on? And he comes up on stage, and he's just like, so much energy. And in the references, people refer to him as a CFGO. And I was like, that's amazing. So he and I did the round. It was super fun. It was the first time we went out to actually do a fundraise. We had a deck this time. And it was wildly oversubscribed. I think we ended up having like 1.5 billion in demand for the round. That's a lot. It was crazy. But we're super thrilled about Excel coming in and leading it.

49:41Max Junestrand:Some great participation from Manlo and Bain. You know, it's awesome.

49:46Jack Altman:It's a huge testament to what you've done and super exciting. And I think you're just getting started. So Max, thank you for doing this. Chaitan, thank you as well. And really enjoyed it. Thank you so much, Jack.