Why Some Songs Work Onscreen and Others Don’t: Pitch Perfect, The Devil Wears Prada + Wednesday

23:56Justin Tranter:Yeah. One hour. Right. And she was like, I'm done? That's it? I'm done? Yeah. She was so shocked, and she was lovely. It was just me and you and her on Zoom. Wow. But, you know, Zoom was hard. She's not used to Zoom. She also didn't get any training, and Alana, it made the whole thing, like, a pleasant experience. And that was kind of like one of those moments. Oh, that's bucket list moment. Hello, my little unfamous friends. so um the thing about the algorithm little miss algorithm is that she um doesn't want to let people know about our podcast unless she thinks that people love it so if you follow this podcast what do the old school youtubers say like subscribe and follow um if you do that for me then you will help the unfamous message of the beauty of the art of collaboration reach more people.

24:48Justin Tranter:So please do me just a cute little favor and follow this podcast and share it and do all those fun things. Bye. Super bucket list moment and I gotta say like she, again she was saying like back in the day when she was recording there was a machine called the Russian Dragon which I'm, by the way obsessed with this, I have like a fake band that is now called Russian Dragon. There's a piece of gear called the Russian Dragon? The Russian Dragon you guys because if you were Russian it would drag you and if you were dragon it would Oh, wow. That's so brilliant. I totally forgot that. I can't with that information.

25:25Justin Tranter:That's really good. But she was perfect. She was like perfection, absolute perfection. All of her inflections were amazing. I was like, oh, my gosh, you're such an original talent. Yeah. So, yeah, that was a super honor. I had to call Lana for that because who else would I call? Yeah, I mean, of course. Okay, Julia, you do many, many jobs. I pretty much just do one, which is write songs. give us songwriters, give us a tip. What is the biggest mistake people make when trying to write for film and TV? I mean, an obvious one is, you know, writing exactly what's happening in the scene. Explain, explain.

26:06Yeah, so when you're writing for film and television, a lot of people think, oh, there's a woman and she's walking across the street in Devil Wears Prada and there's a car passing. and we know so they write oh you know i'm walking across the street in my high heels like don't send a song to me that say i'm walking in my high heels don't narrate the scene via lyric that's the way to say it yeah essentially is don't narrate the scene i think that is one of the biggest misnomers for people that don't do it all the time yeah you know it's like you're you're storytelling but you're not telling what's happening in the scene yeah so i think that's that's very helpful information yeah i think that's and you know you learn that you know when your song gets rejected because it didn't work and i actually try to give feedback if it's someone that i know okay this is why it didn't work or you know or you know your the vocals are too hot in the mix so can you you know it's not laying in the scene right can we mix it differently there's all kinds of feedback yeah but i think the one is like don't narrate what's happening yeah exactly

27:01Justin Tranter:what what is we we're a new podcast but people there's a rabid fan base and they they're here to learn if you're willing to share what is the biggest mistake that you've made writing for film and tv not not producing specifically a writing question is there a story that you can share with us you're like i can't believe i did that but i'm so glad i learned from it you know from a writing standpoint no because because you're perfect if you mess it up it's not going in oh right then it's just done yeah because there's like all these checks and balances along the way. So like, it's not going to make it past her.

27:40And if it makes it past her, it's not going to make it past the next guy. So like, no, I mean, writing wise, like.

27:47Justin Tranter:You can do producing then. If there's anything that you think that you like. Fumbled. Fumbled and now you know not to fumble like that. You know. I already love it. I think it's really just like what you say in front of who. That's my biggest. That's very helpful information. And I'm going to push. I'm going to Barbara Walters you. I want to learn more from that. No, I would say like I get really comfortable. Yeah, she does. And so I'm just like offering, you know, I'm always offering my opinion and solutions and all that. Don't do it. Don't do that. It's not your job to fix everything. But here's the thing.

28:26She can do that more than I can do that. Explain. So Alana is the creative, giving her opinion, doing that. And I might say, you know what, Alana, I have an idea. and I'll like pivot the conversation a little bit. So the director will maybe be a little bit on board with what you're saying, but kind of take you out of the hole. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Make sense? Yeah.

28:45Justin Tranter:Walk me through it. Cause this is very, I think it's very helpful information. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a play of like, who should this come from? Correct. And how's it going to land the best and give us the best result? You know? So we do work together. I think this should come from you. How many times do you say that to each other? This should come from you. She says that a lot. This should come from you. This should come from you. Yeah, we do. we strategize about that i mean that i think is such an underrated part of collaboration right so much of what we talk about in collaborating is on the creative side which of course we're all watching movies and tv shows and listening to records because we love the art but to get the art across the finish line the business collaboration is for better or worse just as important it just and how do you how often in the roles that you guys play how often are the two of you calling each other to strategize business stuff?

29:36Every five minutes. Sometimes several times a day, yeah. I'm not kidding. I mean, our text chain, like you and I text as fast, that's how we text. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's all the time. And Alana's, like, she's very fast, but she's sometimes got her head down. And so I'll wait till she, you know, surfaces, and I'll say, okay, we have to do this, this, this, and this. And she'll say, okay, you call so-and-so about this. I'll call so-and-so. You know, we just keep collaborating. It's like you said, you want to get your art across the finish line. and also in collaboration the whole project's a collaboration it's never our final decision but we just want to present our idea in the best light that it has the best chance and if they shoot it down they shoot it down yeah you know but then we know it got a good shot what is the

30:17Justin Tranter:proudest moment that you you have together of something that you collaborated on art wise but business wise that you actually got if you can name it if not tell me to fuck off and I'll move a new question. Well, something that was really amazing for me was on Barbie, which was the project I was working on. And they wanted to pull in the series, not the amazing movie was they wanted to pull in named artists through these songs. And I was like, I need Julia. And she came and she hand delivered me like Jordan Sparks, who's one of my favorite voices ever to sing one of the songs. Like having Jordan sing a song that I wrote was crazy.

30:58Taylor Parks. And then the collab with Taylor Parks was insane. Like she's such a brilliant. Legendary songwriter and singer Taylor Parks.

31:05Justin Tranter:Songwriter, singer, producer. Also actress in hair as a child. Everything about her is amazing. Like we were Zooming and she was like, okay, take all the snares out. I was like, yes, ma 'am.

31:18So yeah, that was super amazing. Well, that was an example where she brought me on on a project. Yeah. Because they wanted, and she's like, you got to get Julia. And I was like, okay, I know some people that are not on labels.

31:29Justin Tranter:Yeah. Because the Barbie universe, the TV show, they have some strict rules. So it's hard to get people that are on labels. So Alex, who do I know that was singing her amazing songs? And they were like, I'm in. Yeah. You know, because the songs are great and they want to be associated. And that was fun. Yeah. That was super fun. Yeah. I was lucky enough to write a song with Gaga for Star is Born. And my question is for both of you, when you're working on projects where, of course, for Star is Born, Gaga's co-writing all of it. So there is a through line. There's a serious through line, and the through line is one of the most talented people of all time.

32:10Justin Tranter:But on a movie, TV show, whatever, where there's a lot of writers, producers, blah, blah, and you both have to find a way to make this cohesive. What is your game plan to pull that off? And obviously, Star is Born, Gaga's the cohesion. It's not the best example. That's like an anomaly example. Yeah, yeah. But what, you know, in so many soundtracks that we all love, there are, forget about how many hundreds of people it took to make the movie. To make the soundtrack is so many people. What is the game plan to make this all cohesive? Well, we can talk about Girl Group because you had collaborators on all the original music.

32:50And maybe talk about your history with them. Because you work with them a lot. Because of this movie called Girl Group. It is going to Toronto, which is great. Rebel Wilson directed it. Congratulations. And it's super cute. And Alana wrote all the original songs. But the premise of the movie is they're singing Girl Group hits. Right. Okay, that she also arranged and recorded. But she has collaborators. and it's interesting because you bring in these people that write with you and there is a through line. I mean, you're in the center of it, but you have like three, some are like a little more comedy songs, but that's a huge hit.

33:23And she just brings these collaborators that sort of know your style. They get how you work. Yeah, I think I've been really lucky to find people in my travels who we kind of speak the same musical language. And I mean, you know, when you speak the same language as somebody and you're just like, something like this. and they're like, oh, I know exactly what you mean. And they like grab you out of the ether and ingest it and vomit it out. It's really kind of a beautiful -

33:50Justin Tranter:Love it, love it. What's happening right now? But yeah, so I do. And there's, you know, I think that's an interesting question. And on girl group, everything is kind of cohesive. It's girl group songs. Rebel had some lyrics in the script that I turned into like really ridiculous, you know, 90s girl group songs. But Off Campus is a really good example of something that's all over the place, right? You have, you know, the band songs, you have the singer-songwriter song from when she was in high school that has to be good, but not too great. And, you know, and then you have - Yes, I want to, if you don't mind me pausing.

34:25Justin Tranter:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Morgan wrote a question about that. And so you just brought it up. So I'm going to push on it. How, what is that balance? Yeah. How, what, if you don't mind walking me through that process of like, Like, okay, it has to be good because this is a talented person, but the character's younger. She's not really at her best yet. What do you do? I mean, like, I channel my younger self because I was writing songs at that age, and they were not horrible. Like, I thought they were, my mom thought they were great. But, I mean, it was just, like, a lot of really verbose, like floral language for one in her high school song that was like you know done well but also just didn't have a concept of how to make it make sense so like the whole song kind of has this it just grows builds and builds and builds and builds and it doesn't really like have levels and then it comes back down and does the same thing so it's like I it's good people like the song but but i think it's definitely reflective of that period of her life yeah yeah that's also like i feel like sometimes like the music supervisor correct me if i'm wrong you're kind of you're the a and r of the album it just has a different title yes yeah it's actually really great because alana said if she writes a song and i get it and i'm like huh um i'm not sure about this song can we change this and oh yeah i get that and see alana is so receptive and doesn't take anything personally which i think is why she's really successful in this space yeah because she's writing not for her own music she's writing about she's like okay i got i have another idea yep oh wait i have another idea okay let's change it's like super receptive to feedback you're serving the script you're serving the director it's it's a it's a job job it's a really cool job yeah but it's a job job i don't mind saying to her that i don't think this is right for the scene or can we try something else she's like yep i got you now when you obviously the reason you guys keep working together is because you're perfect when you have for people trying to learn of how to not fuck up what when you give notes to a writer producer ranger whatever title they're they're working on that moment and they can't take the note how do you if you can't fire them if they can't take the note they're gone well here's what i do she calls me i call you no but you know what I'll do if I get that feeling like they're not going to take a note well I'm like okay you do what you want to do and then I just take the material and then I let the director speak for this it then it's I kind of take it out of my lap and let maybe I'm wrong maybe I do feel maybe this is not maybe this is really what someone might be looking for but chances are I'll let that come back you know the director didn't love it or the producer doesn't love that you know and then I I just let them do their thing because I don't want to insult anybody and you know some people like I said film and tv is a different a different world yeah how do you if you're bringing something to a director and you know it's not right but you don't want to sabotage in case you have it wrong how do you protect yourself in that conversation or you just let it happen um yeah because you don't want them to think that I have terrible taste in what I'm setting them right now like like I know this doesn't work but that is a really good question.

37:49A lot of times I'll strategize with my music editor. I'll say, can you cut this song? But can you cut this other song in and say that I like this song better?

37:57Justin Tranter:Yeah. You know, I do try to, you know, I don't want to look bad. I don't want to present something that I don't think works. Sometimes I'll be honest with them and say, look, I think this needs, I had this just, I had it happen on Prada. I won't say who, but somebody wrote a big artist, wrote a song that we just couldn't get there yeah but i had to i mean it was a big artist and i totally respect the songwriters it was great but it just it really wasn't landing and i was kind of protecting it from it i didn't want to showcase i felt like it was better it just didn't get there yeah and i showcased i like no yeah i knew that was going to happen but i tried i tried so hard yeah the both both of your credits are so insane and i'm sure you get asked the same question the main question i get asked is

38:47Justin Tranter:what fights did you have to fight to get the first big break and you guys talked about your first jobs and your first ways in but is there a specific story you can remember like i need this yes yes so you guys heard my story when i became independent luckily i had some relationships that they put me up for movies but the movie i wanted with devil wears prada the devil i had read the book. I'm like, this is my movie. Everybody get them out of the way. This is my movie. So Justin, this is back in the day when we made CDs. So I'm like, I'm making my CD at home. I, I made, I put Vogue on it. I put Vogue on the CD.

39:26I walk in there. There were two other people that were meeting on the movie. I'm like, do I wear my Pradas to the meeting? Do I not wear my Pradas to the meeting? It's like when I met with Tom Ford, I'm like, do I wear my Tom Fords? Um, so I was like out of the way. This is my, and I just walked in there so fierce. And I was like, I sat down there and I got the job and cut to 20 years later. That was my seventh movie with that director. But I just knew I wanted that job. I love the book. I'm like, this is, this is, I know I can do a great job here. It was only my third movie as an independent, but that's kind of what put me on the map.

39:57Justin Tranter:I mean, the, the beautiful power that music supervisors have. I mean, the KT Tunstall, that, that, you putting that song in there changed her life and also changed so many people's lives because they love that song. Changed my life. Yeah. Changed my life. How does that make you feel watching that song become a phenomenon because you put it in a movie? Well, you know, it's interesting. We're very good friends, KT and I. Oh, really? Oh, cool. And at all her shows, she's like, there's Julia, she changed my life. Like, she says that. And I say, you changed my life. And we both got interviewed when this movie came out about that whole moment and how I found the song.

40:40and it was just really cool. It's just one of those zeitgeist moments. You know, it happens not often, but that's one that... How did you come across the song? I remember exactly where I was when I heard it. I remember where I was in my car on Venice Boulevard. Someone at Capitol had sent me an unreleased KT Tunstall album and I heard it. I'm like, this is the song. This is the opening song.

41:02Justin Tranter:You already had the scripts. You already were working on the movie. We were in the edit. Oh. We were in the edit. Deep in it. And I called David Frankel and I said, this is the song. Wow. And it's happened a couple times in my life. And boom, it went in. Wow. Have you ever stopped at that spot on Venice Boulevard and taken a picture? No, but it's like I get a feel. I think you should do it today. I remember what car I was in. And I remember exactly. It was a CD, people. Like, I put the CD and I'm like, oh, my God, this is a song. So. Wow. That is a great, great story. Can you remember a job that you fought hard for and it changed?

41:34So I think for me, it was like less fighting, but I really wanted off campus. I met with Amanda. We had never worked together before, but we had always like kind of peripherally. Well, no, that's not true because she was on pitch. So we had kind of peripherally worked together on Pitch Perfect. And she told me what it was about. And it was literally the thing that I had been trying to manifest into my life. And I was just like, I want it. I need it. It must be mine. And so that was just my vibe for the next week or so until they called me back and they were like, you're doing it. And I was like, yes.

42:11But I think that that like having your mind in that mind frame of like, I must have it, like not asking for it, but just knowing that it's yours. Yeah.

42:22Justin Tranter:Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, there's the Internet loves to talk about manifestation, which I think is important. But if the insane amount of hard work doesn't come with it, it doesn't really matter, you know. But with creating, you've both together and separately have worked on projects that have such specific sounds. Wednesday is such a specific world. You know, if you don't mind sharing your thought process. I mean, because obviously the world of off campus and the world of when, those are different literal planets. Yeah. You know, like. Well, I think I've also kind of grown up in a weird way with music.

43:06My musical journey, like, I grew up in a Brazilian jazz house. My dad's a Brazilian jazz musician. My stepmom's a Brazilian jazz singer. And I kind of grew up, you know, going to Jobim's house at his piano, being, like, listening to the band practice. And my dad toured with Astro Jouberto. So it was, like, at her show. You know, so I went from that, yeah. And then, like, discovered that I was in a punk band, playing drums in a punk band. And then I, like, got really into heavy metal and, like, you know. So then, you know, and then it was hip hop. Like I transitioned from metal to hardcore to hip hop, which was like an obvious transition.

43:44And and then got into pop. And I don't know. I love it all. So like for Wednesday, for example, they were like, oh, can you arrange for cello? Oh, and the same thing happened on Pitch Perfect. They're like, can you do acapella? And I was like, yeah. And I was like, I don't know, but I'm going to go for it. And same happened with with with Wednesday. I'm going like this because it's cello. So anytime I talk about cello, I go like this.

44:09Justin Tranter:I thought you were driving. It's the bow, you guys. So yeah, for Wednesday, they're like, can you do this? But I think that's what we're talking about, collaboration. It's like, I'm always going to run something by someone who is an expert. Even though I want to bring my perspective to it, I'm going to be like, is this cello-y? You know? And they're like, yeah, actually. So that was cool. Who do you have on speed dial to find out if something's cello-y? So on that, I called this girl, Essin, who had been doing Essin. Yeah, she's lovely. She had been doing a lot of notation for me. So she'd been transcribing all my takedowns and stuff.

44:46I would just send it to her. She's actually still in my phone as Essin Transcribe. To back down.

44:51Justin Tranter:So just for anyone who is trying to learn about these amazing jobs you guys have, what does transcribing a takedown mean? because also I just finished a whole animated movie musical that you helped me get. I've never heard a takedown. I don't know what that means. So teach me. So a takedown is when you send a piece of music to someone who just has to notate it by ear. So there's no like MIDI going along with it or anything going along with that that would help them. So they just do it all by ear, which is wild. And so she was doing that. So she has a crazy ear. She went to Berkeley also. So slang for just transcribing by ear is a takedown.

45:28Justin Tranter:Yep. Yeah. There we go. Love it. We send those out. We send out music to our copyists and they do a takedown. If we don't have an essence. Yes. Yeah. So she was, yeah, she was my guy. And then I was like, hey, you want to work on this? Can you put this? Because I gave her the MIDI that was all piano. And I was like, can you put this in a cello and do whatever you want? Yeah. And that was the first time that we had collaborated creatively. And she did it and it was awesome. Cool. And they loved it. And then Chris Bacon. it was like actually funny Chris Bacon who's the composer for the show I think what happened was this whole scene was playing out as a solo moment solo cello and then like 11 hours before they recorded the orchestra Tim Burton was like I want score on this like underscore this and Chris did it and like and then recorded it the next day with the orchestra and I heard it for the first time seeing it I think they sent me a clip and I literally threw my phone across the room because it was so good.

46:27I was like, oh my God.

46:29Justin Tranter:Do you know what scene it is so we can edit this together? It's where she plays Paint It Black on the cello. Morgan wanted me to ask about Paint It Black and you did my job for me. There you go. Yeah. So I didn't know Chris at the time. We basically met when we were nominated for a Grammy together. Shut up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, we met and then we were like, wait, we're identical twins. We're best friends. Nobody would think that because he comes off really serious, but he's not. He's like, we're doing karaoke in the car together. It's weird. It is interesting in our jobs of like how certain things can happen in different rooms, different countries, different states.

47:06Justin Tranter:I, one of my favorite songs I ever got to co-write was Halsey, Bad at Love. And wrote it in the room was me, Ricky Reed and Halsey. But the track that we were writing to, Ricky Reed had made with a producer, amazing producer writer named Roger and didn't meet Roger for like, seven, six years after that song. I ran into him in an airport, but see him on Instagram. And I was like, hey, we have a hit song together. It's so nice to meet you. Yeah, yeah. I think something that people don't talk about enough in terms of collaboration is the very hard conversations. And would love for you guys to shed any light on some hard conversations.

47:51Justin Tranter:You don't have to name names and how you got through it. And one thing I will say is you're so good at it. I, speaking of like really wanting a job, I don't know if you remember this. I called you because I'm a Hunger Games super fan. Anything about the world ending, I love it. I'm in. And I've read every Hunger Games book. And so I knew there was a movie coming where a character was a folk singer. And then it was announced that you were the music supervisor. and I was like, I'm going to call her right fucking now. I don't care. This has to be my job. And you were like, I love you so much. No one's ever heard you write a folk song.

48:35Justin Tranter:And I was like, I can do it. And you were like, I love you and believe in you, but there's a lot of people involved and they're going to want someone with a folk track record. And I just respected that so much. You didn't go, let me make some calls. You were just like, I love you. and I'm going to let you down right now, this is not your job. And that is how you handle it. Because if you would have then given me a wishy-washy answer, I would have called you six more times. It would have been awful for me, too. It would have been awful for you. Yeah. Well, that's a skill that I've learned over the years.

49:10Justin Tranter:That's why I like to talk about it. So tell me about the journey of learning the hard conversation. Well, I would say at Fox, as a music executive, I had to fire people. People get fired. I shouldn't say I fire. And I always say when someone gets fired on a movie, it's never their fault, right? If a composer gets fired, it's because a producer and they don't get along and the producer's a scapegoat. Or if a songwriter, you know, gets fired in the middle, it's never their fault. It's circumstantial. And when you're a young executive, you take everything, oh, my God, I have to call this person or the supervisor didn't get the job and I have to tell him they're not getting the job.

49:43Then you realize it's not personal. so if you come from a loving place yeah and a supportive place of that person and you say this is why this is not happening you know don't let it crush your dreams in a nice way then it becomes easier yeah um but it is a skill you have to learn at the beginning it's hard to make those calls but i feel like i've gotten better just i've been doing it so long yeah and plus when there's people like you that you know that i love you and like i'll tell you the truth you know and you'll tell me the truth so um it becomes a little easier but it's hard do you think the only way is just practice

50:14Justin Tranter:You just have to do it. I think so. I mean, I think that's, you know, it's like I've had directors at the beginning, like make me cry in a scoring stage when I was young. And I'm like, that would never happen today because I'm like, I don't care what you think. You know what I mean? But when you're young and you're starting out as a supervisor, you know, you're navigating this big, wide world. Yep. And you want everyone to like you and you want to come off great at your job. And it's hard, you know, and and and there's also like we're kind of we're kind of Switzerland. but all the creatives out there have personalities and egos and you have to learn how they operate.

50:45Justin Tranter:Yeah. Have you, I mean, obviously you're, you're so accomplished that people as the creative, people have to have hard conversations with you, but you're in charge of departments and you're in charge of teams. And how have you learned to have the hard conversations? Yeah. I think like for me, when somebody comes with me, comes to me with like something critical, like if they're not liking something, like Julia said before, I don't care. I'm like, cool, let's make it what you want it to be yeah done um and then when i'm collaborating with someone who's kind of not getting it that's i mean i i'm not really that diplomatic so i'm always like julia you you do this one no but like but that's smart though for you to know that that's not your strength it's not my forte i'm just like i don't like that i can't turn that in like that you know what i mean so and then we fix my job yeah that's my job protect her and keep her clean yeah i love that i mean I love that.

51:36Yeah, yeah. I shouldn't be allowed to talk to anybody. But, like, the people that I collaborate with, they're used to me. Like, you know, so I'm just like, I don't like how that goes. But I also, by the way, on Girl Group, that whole final song that we're not going to talk about because the movie's not out yet. I was working on it with Ethan, one of my collaborators, Ethan Roberts. And he did this, like, re-harm that was so jarring to me. And we're both very honest with each other. We're just like, I don't like that.

52:04Justin Tranter:For any non-music geeks, Reharp means changing the chords underneath the melody. Yeah, it was so weird to me when I first listened to it. I was like, this is terrible, man. I don't know what you were thinking. Put the original chords back. And then the next day I listened to it again, I was like, you are brilliant. What was I thinking? And he was like, that's the first time I ever heard a woman say you're right to me. And I was like, and the last, my friend. No, I mean, I feel like creatively. Do not get used to it. Don't get used to it. but I think that's important too to like always take a second listen and like just make sure because once your brain is in a certain place with a song and you're used to it that certain way of course it's going to feel weird I'm on a whole other planet right now we ask this question of almost every guest do you remember I like to call it the song that ruined your life the song that you heard as a fan as a young person and were like oh fuck I have to work in music make music, work in music, dance.

53:04Justin Tranter:Obviously, you were a dancer. Do you remember the song that was like, oh, shit, this is my life now? I remember the movie. Even better for your career. Perfect. Well, two movies. Okay. I'm so like, you guys know me for an hour. Fame and Flashdance. Fame and Flashdance. I mean, those are two of the best music forward movies ever. I mean, those movies changed my life. It's like I have to be around, do something. I mean, the emotion. I knew all the dances and flash dances. What's your favorite song from fame? I'm more of a, if I had to pick one, I'm more of a fame girl over flash dance. So let's geek out on it for a second.

53:44Well, I mean, The Body Electric. Of course, The Body Electric. The Body Electric.

53:47Justin Tranter:If you have a soul, The Body Electric is one of your top ten songs. I mean, you know. Yeah. I mean, they're all so great. They're so good. But The Body Electric. Me too. It was probably the one I listened to the most. I sing The Body Electric for like every audition for a good seven years. Yeah. Oh my God, if I could sing. I mean, I can't really sing either. You can just decide that you can. Alana, do you remember the song that ruined your life? Yeah. Or album or? I think, you know, for me, because from Brazilian music, I went into musical theater. I was like a New York City theater kid. And Phantom of the Opera, stop.

54:27Stop. Just stop. Stop. And then after that, like weirdly, one of the most emotional experiences I had with a song was Nothing Else Matters by Metallica.

54:37Justin Tranter:Uh-huh. And it was like - Honestly, very similar to Angela Weber's stuff, though. Angela Weber's a huge metal fan. You can hear it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We know what we're talking about. We sure do. And Nothing Else Matters, I was like mourning the loss of a friend who had died in a car accident. And I just remember being like, oh, this is important. This song is important. It's getting to a level. It's like unfurling this grief in this really interesting and important way. So I would say that is a big one. Fianna of the Opera and Metallica, fame and flash dance. You guys both gave very good answers.

55:15That was the easiest question so far. That was very, very good.

55:18Justin Tranter:Okay, to end every episode, we play a game called gag or drag. If you don't have a lot of gay friends, I'll explain this to you. Gag means you love it. Drag means you hate it. Okay? And if, because we're all professionals here, if you need to say meh because you can't commit to a love or hate, I will allow a meh because we're in a professional setting. Okay, okay. Okay, gag or drag someone saying, we'll fix the vocal in post. Gag. That's my job, guys. That is total gag. I love it. When I, Morgan writes these questions, and when I read that, I was like, what I love about that is I think Morgan's going to think that that's a drag, that you hate it, but a lot of times it's a lot easier to just fix it in post than do like a six-hour vocal session.

56:10Justin Tranter:Okay, gag or drag. Gag is you love it. You love it. Yeah, gag is good. Yeah. Gag or drag, an actor decides on, sorry, Morgan, I'm butchering your question. Gag or drag an actor decides on shooting day that they'd like to change the key. Gag. Because guess what, guys? Gag if I have her. You just throw that thing in your pitch shifter and everything goes up. It sounds weird. I actually changed the key one time on the day after we had recorded like for hours. I was like, you know what? You guys sound weird there. I'm going to pitch it up a fourth. No. I pitch it up a fourth. Gag if I have Alana. Drag if I don't have it.

56:48Okay, great.

56:51Justin Tranter:Oh, I love this one, Morgan. Gag or drag? Can we make this sound more expensive? Oh. Drag. That's obviously a drag from Julia. That's a drag. I mean, like, I mean, I like a challenge. Ozone 11, drag. Drag, drag. We don't like it. For me, it's a drag because I'm like, I don't know exactly what that means. And also what you probably mean is you just want it mixed. Mastered, yeah. It will be. Yeah. Okay. But it is, people say that a lot. Okay, gag or drag, a songwriter completely ignores the brief and accidentally writes something much better. Gag. Gag. Oh, my God. That's brilliant. Gag or drag, a celebrity cameo turns into three original songs and six more months of work.

57:43Justin Tranter:Are the songs good? Morgan, you wrote the question, are the songs good? It's up to you. Are they? Let's say they're bad. Oh, major drag. Major drag, major drag. Gag or drag movie musicals where every character suddenly sounds like a flawless recording artist? Major drag. Drag, drag, drag. Big time drag. You got to have the real, you got to have the cracking. You got to have the cracking. You got to have that emotion. Yes, you have to. It can't sound overproduced, even though we've done those movies and some of them work. No. Yeah. Gag or drag karaoke with people who are professionally good singers?

58:20Major gag. That is my life, you guys. I have competed. She has gotten me to do karaoke, so gag.

58:30Justin Tranter:Gag or drag, somebody singing every word directly into your ear at a concert. Drag. Big drag. I almost got into a fight at a Fiona Apple concert for that one. Drag. Are you? Drag. Oh, yeah. Singing like that at a Fiona Apple concert is crazy. Okay. Gag or drag, a terrible movie with an incredible soundtrack. Gag. I love it as a fan it depends on the movie I mean gag at the soundtrack for sure yeah yeah true gag at the soundtrack if you can get through the movie oh right that's a good point because for you if you kicked ass on the soundtrack but then no one saw the movie not good that's a big drag big drag you're right I was just thinking as a fan yeah you just like wasted a year of your life I just did exactly did I get paid good point good point gag or drag The temp song is so perfect, everyone knows you're, but everyone knows you're never going to be able to afford it.

59:26I mean, drag, major drag, if we can't afford it. Yeah, because, you know, you work for about six weeks before they even pay attention to anything you're sending them.

59:34Justin Tranter:Yeah, yeah, that's a big drag. As the songwriter getting asked to beat a temp song when you know the director specifically is obsessed with the temp. Here's the solution. Don't be the first one that tries to be to be the 10th one because then they're exhausted. They're exhausted and they've let go of their wish. And you're like, oh, something comes in. You go, oh, my God, I love this. That is great advice. Be the 10th one in. And I'm using it tomorrow. Okay, to wrap this up, if you could give all these gorgeous people right here and the people at home one piece of advice about collaborating on a movie or a TV show, what would that piece of advice be?

1:00:16Justin Tranter:And if it's something you already said, please repeat it. Because I think that if there's something that you've learned that you really wish you would have learned sooner, it's worth saying twice. That I would say that you want to work with people that have better ideas than you do. I mean, better is a weird word, that have different ideas than you do. Because you can't do it all by yourself. It's not going to be a success if you do it all by yourself. Bring in people that you can talk to and bounce ideas off because it will elevate what you're doing for sure. I really love that you changed it to different ideas.

1:00:49Justin Tranter:I think that that's such a looking for collaborators that do something different than you, that think differently than you is such an... Because everyone just wants to like, of course we want to have a good time at work, but you're there to accomplish something major. And for you guys, film and TV is so much more expensive than pop music. that like you're there's high stakes and like bringing in people with different ideas is a really great piece of advice I love that and I would say um know that you're serving a story first and then you know the directors are showrunners and producers um but it's not about you really so if you write something that's not right for the moment like you really have to not come into that with any ego, not be offended.

1:01:38Like it could be the best song that you ever wrote. They're not saying it's not the best song you ever wrote. They're just saying it's not right for right here. You know, we had that experience one time on Trolls. I wrote a really cool song and they were like, and it was like literally my favorite. It got used the next season. So like, it's really just not about your heart in that moment or your skills or your ego. Yeah. I love that.

1:02:03Justin Tranter:Thank you both. Thank you. So much. That was so fun. Big round of applause for Alana and Julia. You can louder. Come on. Come on. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:02:20Hello.

1:02:21Justin Tranter:Hello. Everyone's favorite part of every podcast where we say, please follow and subscribe to this podcast, wherever you listen. so you don't miss future conversations. And also, pretty please take a cute little second to rate the show. It's one of the biggest ways you can support us. See you next Wednesday.