Leaving Her Dream Job for Menopause Advocacy: Tamsen Fadal on HRT & Purpose After 50

21:36And the media was part of it. And I'm part of the media. And so I think that that's where I have felt I stand in this and I couldn't stop talking about it. I would sit on that news set at night after I realized all this. I'm like, okay, I've got to talk about this. I was so not focused on anything except this message because I could not believe, I could not believe what this has done to women and my mom, I think about.

22:00Dr. Mary Claire Haver:So you've said, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you didn't say the word menopause on air for 30 years. No, we didn't talk about this. I mean, how many health stories had you done? Oh my gosh. We did. So we used to do health segments, you know, like it would be a health segment. Breast Cancer Awareness Month. All the time. My face was on every billboard for breast cancer awareness because of my mom and to raise money and make sure we were talking about it. And then we do whatever months it was. We did diet stories. We did cholesterol stories. We did nutrition stories. We did anything, you know, blood pressure stories, whatever, Alzheimer's.

22:34We never talked about menopause. And when I started to bring it to the forefront, because I was at that point anchoring five hours of newscasts every day. So I had 25 hours on live television to be able to talk. I'm like, let's do a story about menopause. And they'd go, let's stop with the menopause. Like, let's stop. You know, that was scary to do because I thought, oh my gosh, I am, And I'm aging myself out fast. But then I realized, oh, my gosh, if I'm not talking about it, who's going to? As I started pushing it into every news, every way I could find. I'm like, but we can also do this story and also do, you know, and then my algorithm changed.

23:09So all I was getting was menopause news. And so I pushed it and pushed it. And, you know, I brought us on television and did a lot of different things because I really believe if people, wherever we can reach people, we have to reach people. Yeah. And that's one of the places.

23:23Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Do you think it surprised your bosses in the network how much because these stories hit hard? Yeah. Women were into it. They're like, whoa, someone said that's what happened with me. You know, someone said the word menopause on air. And instead of like their eyes rolling back, I think women were like leaning in to the conversation. Oh, 100 percent. When I first brought it on, I think there was there was all the eye rolling. Right. Right. And then I remember I sat down with Elizabeth Fargus, who had come from ABC and was working at the network where I was at. And I said, we need to do this story.

23:59And she was like, explain to me, explain this to me. I get into the news business at like 1994. I used to sit in the edit bay and just stare at her. I used to just stare at Elizabeth and be like, I want to be her one day. She is. She's everything. You know, she was just like my idol. and now she's working at the network where I am. So it was like this full circle moment. And I went to her and I said, we need to talk about this. We've got to talk about this. I've got to tell you, I've got to show you these people. I've got to show you these doctors and show you the study. And I sat down, I was like, I need your help to go in there and like really make this a bigger, bigger thing.

24:34And she did. And we sat there together, but we pushed, we took both of us to push that story to the network. And what was the reception once you got on air? Well, we were like, let's do a three-part to five-part series. You know, we were really going all in. And the documentary had not come out yet. I was starting to interview all of you for the documentary, but it had not come out yet. And it was like, all right, let's start here. What exactly is it? What are we doing? And we got one across the board, and it was a big, long series. And we sat there from the beginning of it to the end of it and put it on the air.

25:05And the reaction was incredible. And I remember I walked away, and one of the cameramen came running after me. And he said, I think that my wife is going through some of this. Is there a way I can get a hold of you or somebody so she can talk to them? Yeah. So I went, OK, we've begun that conversation in traditional media.

25:41And it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit Progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Expedia and Visit Scotland invite you to come experience the beauty that awaits in Scotland. The sweep of wild coastlines, quiet locks, and untamed landscapes. Fresh cuisine that feels rooted in the land. Come experience the kind of stillness that stays with you long after you leave. Plan your Scottish escape today at Expedia.com slash VisitScotland. If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently?

26:26Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With Sleep Score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions and sleep duration. Then, every morning it combines these factors into an easy to understand score. from 1 to 100, so you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from okay to very high. Know your sleep score with Apple Watch, iPhone 11, or later required. All right, let's go to the documentary. Yeah. The M Factor. And what on earth were you thinking? I don't know. Like, you just wake up one day and like, I'm going to make a documentary.

27:06Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Like, how do you even do that? I don't know. You know, it's so funny. Well, first, I didn't remember if I asked that. It's not like you make money making a documentary, right? It's not like a big moneymaker. No. But it has more value than anything in the world, right? Yeah. So my husband works in the TV world, and one of the people that work with him I became friendly with. And I was saying to her all the time, like, I can't believe this. All these women have menopause. And did you know this? And did you know that? And did you know this? And she's like, yeah, I already went through that, Tamsin.

27:32I'm like, yeah, I already went through that. And so I said, oh, and she goes, but there's a good friend of mine that talks to me about it like you do. and I'm so sick of talking to you about it. You guys should meet each other. And so her name is Joanne Lamarca and Joanne came from the Today Show. She launched Hoden and Kathy and she was at the Today Show for a very, very long time. And I got an introduction to her and I sat on the phone with her for an hour and a half the first time. And I said, we just got to get this out there. Like, I don't know what to do. I'm in news. They don't want to talk about it every day.

28:02And we said, what if we put something together, put a film together, something, a longer version of something together for YouTube? And she said, I think so. And I said, what if it's a doc? She's like, what if it's a doc? I said, I don't know. We've never even done a documentary. You know, news, you interview somebody for 20 minutes and it's a two minute piece. That's how news works. So we started thinking like, we need to do this. And we went out to Times Square with our iPhones and said, let's see if there's any kind of appetite for women willing to talk about it or what they're going through.

28:30And we had masks on at the time. Everyone was wearing masks still. We're like, can you talk about, you know, menopause? Did you go through it? No, yeah. No, I didn't go through that. I don't want to talk about it. And then one by one, we probably tried to interview 30 people and maybe four of them talked to us. And I said, I don't know, maybe there's just nothing to it. But I just really, I feel like there is. She felt like there was. And we started saying to a couple of different doctors at that time. Sharon Malone was somebody that I knew, Dr. Sharon Malone. And I said, I'd like to talk to you.

28:59I was a little scared because I didn't really know her very well. But I'd like to see if we could talk to you about a documentary. At the time, I met the other two producers that I have from L.A., which is Denise Pines and Kobe Atlas, and both of them had done documentaries before. And I said, I don't know what I'm doing, but I do know that we need to do it. And they said, well, we've done documentaries and we wanted to do this one, too. So let's all partner. So four women partnered together on both coasts. And we said, we're going to figure this out. And the first interview we did was Dr. Cher Malone in my living room on her birthday.

29:30She came in and I sat down with her and we kind of like set the stage of what we didn't know. And then we said, all right, we're going to lean in and we're going to do this documentary. And we had no support, no money. Right. No clarity of exactly what we were doing with it.

29:46Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Where does the money come from? Did you get people going, I'm not going to invest in this. I'm not going to. We had, there's no audience for it. I'm not giving you any money for this. and who wants to watch a documentary? Because, you know, the documentary was at that time teemed boring. You know, there wasn't like all the cool documentaries quite yet, there was some. It was like, who wants to watch a documentary about menopause? No, there's no audience, there's no place, no one wants to air it and no one's giving you money for it. Unless my whatever can be in it. And we're like, that's not a documentary.

30:14We can't do that. So we pushed and pushed. We put a lot of our own money into it. We funded it. We self-funded this thing on all ends of it. And then finally it started to take root when we started to put together a trailer The trailer went insane. Then we had people step up and say, hey, you know, a couple of different nonprofits, like I will fund this because we really believe in it. And we had some people funding it, but we funded most of the first one ourselves, like from the very, very beginning, put it together. And by the time we released that trailer, which was maybe September of last year, we had such an influx because remember, it was just the four of us.

30:48We had such an influx into our inbox of people wanting to watch it, air it, see it, be part of it, whatever it was that we had to hire people to come in and help field all these requests. And so we wound up giving it to women to view in their communities. And to date, we've had over 1 ,004 screenings in cities across the U.S. and I think we're at 43 or 45 countries.

31:13Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Isn't that crazy? So you got PBS. Yes. So you make this documentary and then you have to shop it around. Like it doesn't just magically make its way onto, you know, your computer or whatever. What was the conversation like with PBS? Probably the biggest place you could launch a documentary. For the credibility of it, too. I just felt really strongly that we needed to have that credibility factor simply because we'd had so much pushback, so much pushback of trying to do anything like this. And I also thought it was a really critical message. It was really the first of its kind of this kind of documentary at this magnitude with this time in our lives.

31:50And so I felt an immense pressure of it needing to be right place, right time, right partners. And Denise and Kobe have done a lot of different things with PBS. So they had already had the trust factor there. And so we went in and I said, OK, we need to view it, though, too, you know, to see. and they did. And we got on for October of last year, which was the weekend of World Menopause Day weekend. That's when it aired. Yeah. That was perfect.

32:16Dr. Mary Claire Haver:So it was amazing. It was amazing. Were the producers in the, you know, were they female? Some female. Yeah, yeah. Of course. Of course. I really feel like we have to have. We have to. You know, in this whole process of this podcast, and you may have had the same with your podcast, we always do better when there's a menopausal woman in the room on the production team in the, you know, because you just don't get it. When I, you know, I launched my podcast in March, but before that it was over a year of trying to figure it out. And constantly what I heard was, you know, the podcast audience is young.

32:53Nobody's going to want to talk about that. So what else are you going to talk about? And I was like, that's what we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about a lot, but that is what we're going to talk about. There's a lot of that conversation is going to be the root of this whole thing. Yes, women in the room, but I will say this with the documentary, even in rooms with menopausal women, it was not always the response you would expect when we went out to shop it to the different streamers and stuff. So I would say that it has now come a long way, baby. Right. But back then when we were going around doing that, it was not quite as cool, hot, right, accepted then to say, hey, because I know what it's like in the TV world to go in and say, hey, I want to do something about menopause.

33:36What? Because you feel like you're being judged as why would you be interested in that? And so because that is an industry that is very, you know, youth is very regarded. Youth is very, you know, that's what you want. It's a double fight. It's a double-edged sword there.

33:50Dr. Mary Claire Haver:We're going to get to the next documentary, which I'm super excited about. Which we were not expecting. Not everybody was happy once it came out. No, I will say that I was surprised because I think that when you're inside of it and a documentary is not go out, do interviews and then just edit it. A documentary is 30 to 50 plus hours of a video. You know how long we were there with you or how long our crews were there with you. You know how many interviews that we had in that documentary, how many women's stories, how many different areas we wanted to cover and push into that one thing. So I'm aware going forward now, not everyone will ever be happy with everything that we talk about, but I'm not happy where we were before this.

34:33I'm not happy as a real woman that we didn't feel comfortable talking about it. I'm not happy as a real woman that my mother suffered. And so many women did. You know, so we did the documentary and the tagline was shredding the silence on menopause. The reason for that documentary was to open the conversation. So I'm okay if not everybody's happy. our intention as journalists, and a documentary is not my opinion. A documentary is experts coming together to talk about what they're experts in. That's what that was. And real women's stories. So I would only say that I'm so damn proud of the documentary.

35:09And I want, thank you. And I want all voices to be heard. So I am happy to hear any pushback on anything. But at the end of the day, the most important thing to me is when a woman stops me in the street and says, I watched the documentary with 10 of my friends or with my husband or with my daughter, and I found a doctor and it's changed my life. That's all the difference in the world. Because our only intention as journalists is to shed light. And that's what we did.

35:36Dr. Mary Claire Haver:So why a second documentary? Well, that wasn't expected. You know, I was like, I love it. I love it. I'm glad. I feel like we're on this like path because like, why another book about menopause? but we're talking about perimenopause. We were not expecting to do that in all truth. Like, I still think we're all like, are we doing this really? Even though we're in edit now. As we saw this rollout happen over the course of the past year, about six months ago, maybe a little bit more, we realized that there were so many other parts of the documentary we couldn't fit in. And one, you know, what important was for me is talking about women that are dealing with breast cancer.

36:17And our friend, Dr. Corinne Mann, who had breast cancer herself, treats women that are very left out of that conversation. Another part that has been left out is really understanding how, you know, we talked about the timeline in the first one, but we didn't really explain everything that happens. You know, we weren't able to have conversations about hormonal households. We weren't able to have conversations about all these different things that were very, very important. And so we decided, okay, menopause is that one day, right, and everything else afterwards. words, but what happens before the pause.

36:48And that's what this documentary is called, Before the Pause. And it will lead up to menopause for those younger women and for any, you know, not even younger women, just women that don't understand, like I didn't. I never heard the word perimenopause and I want to make sure they do.

37:04Dr. Mary Claire Haver:So what is a hormonal household? For our listeners who may not know what that is, I know what it is. So a hormonal household is when you've got like a young, you know, a young one, a teenager, a, you know, I don't know, 12, 13, 14, going through their hormonal journey. And then you've got mom that's probably at the same time experiencing perimenopausal symptoms and menopause and having those two. And I don't want to ever say collide, but live under the same roof in dealing with that because there's a lot that goes there. And I, at first I thought it was like a little catchphrase that was cute.

37:37And then I realized it's a real thing. And especially as women are having children a little bit later, sometimes or just realizing this a little bit earlier, it was really important for us to include.

37:47Dr. Mary Claire Haver:I'm finding that the millennials are way more open to this conversation. It's like Gen X kicked the door in and started the conversation. And these younger women coming through are like, okay, what do I need to know to get ready? How do I need to prepare myself? They don't want to hide it. There's no shame. Like this is inevitable. This is a natural part of life, but I don't want to go into this blindsided. So what I'm seeing is millennials millennials are a lot more accepting of what's coming. They're curious. There's no shame. They want to learn more. They're asking to be a part of the conversation.

38:22And I'm encouraged by that. Like, I love the fact that millennials are like, tell me what's going on. Tell me what I need to know. And I'm going to I'm going to go through this. And so I do I agree with you. Gen X kicked open the door. Millennials are like, here we are. And now we're going to use that information to be better longer. And I think that's it's incredible because I think back to my, you know, when I was 30s, I wasn't thinking about, I didn't even know the word perimenopause.

38:44Dr. Mary Claire Haver:I was a medical expert and I was like, oh, menopause. Literally, I was like, oh, menopausal patient, no. And that's just bias and paternalism and how I trained in my own ageism. And now I'm like, yay, it's all I do now. And it's like the best part of my medical practice ever is that, you know, taking care of these women. Well, there's such an appreciation too, because I think that these women have been overlooked, dismissed, felt invisible themselves. And the truth of the matter is, is that that is very much not what's going on. And they've not been given an opportunity to be able to be seen, feel better, not have to beg for help.

39:26And so I'm so happy for all of us. And then I'm really happy for millennials who walk in and say like, hey, I'm going to probably fix most of it myself outside the doctor's office. Maybe I need to go to you and get my hormone therapy or some other form of treatment, but I'm going to be okay. This isn't going to define me. And I think that that's exciting because then when we get to the next generation, what does that mean for them? So when I look at what we've done so far with the first documentary, Shredding the Silence, with now before the pause, I can't wait to see the reaction to that because I think it's going to just make that change even quicker, even faster.

40:04and with, you know, books that we have out there, when we have films out there, we have celebrities talking about it, many of our friends talking about it, incredible doctors like yourself talking about it. There's no way that this conference, it's not a trend, it's not a moment, it's not a, you know, it's not a fleeting, you know, thought in anybody's mind. And hopefully we get to a place where it doesn't have to be a thing that it's a part of our lives. Right, and nothing to be ashamed of or to hide from. Oh my gosh, nothing to be ashamed of.

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41:46Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Shop in-store or at REI.com. You get this idea. I'm going to write a book. Another idea in the shower. Because you've written books before. I have. You've had bestsellers before. So did you go to your agent? Because now this is because they were on matchmaking. Yeah. A divorce, dating. Yeah. So this is, what was that like, that conversation with your agent, I guess, was first? Well, it's funny. I had gone to the original agent I had and she's like, I don't think that there's going to be an audience for this book. And I said, okay, I think I need to find an agent that believes that there is. Okay, I got pushed back too.

42:21Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Yeah. So I had done Galveston Diet and it had done very well. Yeah. But immediately, the minute the manuscript was in, I was letting my friends read it and getting the reaction. I talked a lot about menopause in the Galveston diet. And that was what not how much protein you need or how many hours you need to work out a week. Everyone was like, you're this menopause part, like more, more, more. And so I go to my agent. My agent was in from the beginning. The editors were kind of like, oh, gosh, me too. Yeah. I mean, there was the wisdom of menopause and menopause manifesto. But, you know, do you really feel I'm like, I'm telling you what people are asking me.

43:00Dr. Mary Claire Haver:I'm in my DMs. I know exactly what people want and they are begging for this information. But did you get pushback? Massive pushback. And it's interesting. I struggle with my title. Remember that? I said to you, I am struggling now because the original title I went in there with to pitch, because when you go to write a book, as we know, you have to go in there and you have to present your case essentially and say, here's what the book should be. Here's your proposal. Here's what the book should be. Here's why it should be. Here's the audience. And I I promise you a lot of people are going to help me say they love it.

43:30And so I went in with one because I'm like, what is a journalist doing writing a medical book? But it wasn't a medical book. It was a guide with all of these expert voices coming together of what a real woman didn't know. It wasn't me as a medical expert. It was me bringing together all of the people that I had learned from, including yourself, to say, look, these are the people to listen to. These are the voices. This is how I got to feel better, know myself, you know, move on to the to be able to talk about it. So it was originally called Menno Talk. That was the book because it was like menopause conversations.

44:05I went in there and my first agent was like, and so I talked to another agent and she said, you know, I'm going through this right now and I want to sell this book. I want to see if there's an audience for it. And we got down to going out there and you go to the different publishers and two came back and said, we think there's an audience for this. because we're both going through it. And that was the reason that it was picked up because there were, to your point earlier, menopausal women going, I need more now. One said to me like, I haven't had sex and I don't know how long. And the other one was like, I think I'm going through this.

44:39I can't, I'm reading all these simple, when are you going to finish writing it? Because you know, with the proposal, you just write a one chapter and an outline. And so my pressure was, I did 42 interviews with 42 different experts. And I think even more, but like those were the big interviews. and really use what I had done my whole life with this interview is to try to pull it together and simplify. I was like, I don't know. We just need a how-to book. And that's how I came up with How to Menopause. Finally, like literally I was under pressure to get a title done because I think I saw you right before it was due.

45:12And I said, I still have a title for this book. And I think it's perfect. Thank you. I finally had, you know, under pressure, but it wound up being the right title for the book.

45:23Dr. Mary Claire Haver:And it was a New York Times bestseller. It was. When was yours out? April. And then mine was the next March, a year later. And I said to you, what did you do the day that you were going to find out what was going on with New York Times? I went to Mexico. I told my husband, I don't want to be in the country. I was so nervous. I know. And because we hadn't made the list with Galveston Diet. I didn't understand at the time with Galveston Diet how it worked. I just thought if you sell X amount of books and you outsell everybody else, you'll make a list. And I didn't realize that, you know, the New York Times bestseller list is editorialized.

46:00Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Meaning you have to sell a certain amount to be considered, but they decide which books, you know. And for whatever reason, Galveston Diet didn't make it. I look back and I just kind of laugh. I'm a straight A student. I remember. I passed everything. I was blindsided. I did not know that could happen. And, you know, you tell Mary Claire, sell, you know, a thousand books. I'll sell two thousand. Right, right, right. I was in Boston doing press at a local Boston affiliate for, I think, NBC. Besides you, one of the first TV stations that had asked me to come and speak. And I was all excited. And then that night, that afternoon, the list was coming out.

46:33Dr. Mary Claire Haver:And it just kind of seemed inevitable that, you know, we had sold a lot of books and whatever. And then my agent called me and said we didn't make it. And I couldn't even process what that meant. and I went back to the hotel and we crashed the mini bar. And I remember drinking these pre-made Bloody Marys or something out of the fridge. And then, and I think I cried on social media about it. You did, I remember. You know. I did an Instagram Live with you and I was, and that was when we, I think we had already been together in LA. And then I did the Instagram Live with you on the book because the book was, was it had just come out or it was going to come out?

47:09I can't remember where it was. We were, you know, we was full court. We were like together quite a bit there. And so I remember doing the Instagram. And then I remember seeing your video and I was like, how is that possible? Like, that's crazy. It's editorial.

47:21Dr. Mary Claire Haver:So the whole push for the next book, for the new menopause, I was like, I don't want to hear about the list. Because everything, as you know, everything's like, the list, the list, the list. We have to do this. I was like, I'm not doing it. I don't want to hear it. You say it and I'm leaving. I'm going to not publish the book. And they're like, you know, so because pre-sales were going incredibly well. and we had sold almost 80 ,000 books by the time, you know. And so I told my husband, I don't want to be in the country when the list comes out. I don't care. I turned off my phone. We went to Mexico.

47:52Dr. Mary Claire Haver:We were sitting in Playa del Carmen on a beach at an all-inclusive drinking margaritas and just meeting people in the pool and chatting and having fun. And then my friend Kim Holderness from the Holderness family, our books came out the same day. And she texted me and I checked my phone because it was Kim. and she's like, girl, did you see? And so it was so sweet. That's a cool way to get it. They were number two and I had happened to hit number one. And I just, I have chills thinking about it, you know? And then all of a sudden, like, I was like, tell the world. Right, right, right. So excited.

48:24I took your advice because you told me what you had done. And I was like, what am I going to do? I can't go to Mexico. Like, I don't know. I mean, we were, because remember, we were in the middle of like all the other stuff. We were still doing doc. And so I went to LA. I went to the Ivy, the restaurant. there where my baby makes me happy. I'm going to get some champagne. I'm just going to sit there. And my team was with me and they lied to me about what time it came out. So they were like, oh, it's not going to be till like five o 'clock today. And I go, really? I'm going to wait that long? And I'm like, I'm sitting there and we're like ate French fries.

48:56Like I was like self soothing just in case. Oh, we got a call. Hold on. We'll be right back. And one of them, and then they came back and they were put it on speaker. They videoed it. They videoed it. I think they put it on speaker or they had called. They had them call my phone and I picked it up and they videoed it. And I was like, oh my gosh, because I had never expected that. And the New York Times to me was like such like, you know, I've grown up in New York. It's just like the, you know, I'm not a doctor. And so I never, I never, I never even thought that would be a possibility. But the special part of it, I think out of everything was after that happened, getting to go around and meet all of the women that read it or talked about it or shared it.

49:35And that was really cool. Yeah. Like I had been, I went to all these different cities around the country and that was really, really super special.

49:43Dr. Mary Claire Haver:I felt like, you know, menopause has spoken, but I just felt like there is no denying that menopause is important and that women want to read about this, and are willing to educate themselves. A hundred percent. I think that we've put that onus on women. Women, we have said to women, all of us, you need to know all this because your doctors might not. Right. And you have to almost interview your doctors to make sure that they feel comfortable with it or ask them why they aren't. Yeah. Right? And so we've given women so much responsibility that that is why they need this information. It's why they need these type of resources.

50:23Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Our generation is so upset about that. Sure. You know, they are like, no, no, no. The doctor should know. And I'm like, listen, we weren't taught. We weren't trained. This wasn't prioritized. And we are working on that point. But it's like the millennials are like, OK, they don't know. I'm going to educate myself. And they feel like they are CEOs in their own health care. And I feel like our generation and forward are more used to the medical system telling them what to do. And this is a huge blind spot in medicine and that, you know, we still have to continue the message of educate yourself, advocate for yourself.

50:58Dr. Mary Claire Haver:You know, and that's what I loved about your book is that it laid out these really clear plans on how to do that. Thank you. For themselves. So, you know, you're on TV, documentary, book publishing. Which of those felt the most vulnerable for you? That's a great question. Because you're a journalist. You've been on TV forever, but you're talking about a taboo subject, you know. But I told other people's stories on TV. I didn't tell my own. And so I think that was a big difference for me of like that it came back to my story. So when I first went on social, you know, I mean, I've told you this.

51:32I went to TikTok first because I was like, I know a lot of people on Instagram and I don't know if I want to have them hear me talk about this subject because I don't know what their opinion is going to be of me. That's how ingrained it was in my brain of like the ageism. because, you know, I grew up in TV. And there's a shelf life, right? There's a shelf life, baby. There's no driving Miss Daisy in journalism. No, no. I remember I was in Philadelphia and there was a news anchor that was a little bit older than me. Maybe she was like a generation older than me, right? And she, when I were sitting there talking and I was kind of like, what do I need to know?

52:07You know, I was new to the station. What should I know next? I want to be like you when I grow up, you know, that kind of thing. And she said, well, I do want you to know this, you know, that there is this shelf life for women. And so when you get to be in your 40s, like that's that. Like, you know, you don't ever see an older woman sitting next to a younger man on television. You see an older man sitting next to a younger woman and she's, you know, and the guy's the distinguished guy that's been sitting there telling the news forever. And I'm like, and so I always in the back of my mind had that every time I'd put my key card up to get into the building, every time I would do the news, I'm like, oh, thank goodness they still want me here.

52:42I'm so grateful. that was my life for a very very long time I do want to say when I walked away from my job as a news anchor to almost two years ago now I was the older woman sitting next to the younger guy by about 10 years I know isn't that crazy that's amazing but the shelf life is a very real thing and it's very sad and I think that a lot of people feel it and I think that a lot of women of our generation really are aware of that and especially the generations before that that is a feeling that's in there, and I cannot wait for that to be gone. And I think we're chipping away at it in a very big way.

53:23Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Now for a MIDI pause, sponsored by MIDI Health. Let's talk about something that's keeping millions of women awake at night. Literally. The girls are not sleeping. They're not sleeping well, not sleeping long, and waking up exhausted. And this is not just a part of getting older. This is a health crisis hiding in plain sight. In my clinical practice, I see it all the time. Women come in frustrated, convinced that something's wrong with them personally. But menopause-related sleep disruption isn't a personal failing. It's a legitimate medical issue with real health consequences. Here's what the research shows.

54:03Dr. Mary Claire Haver:More than half of women in menopause experience disrupted sleep. Nearly 80 % report poor sleep quality. And when night sweats strike, they can increase sleep disruption by over 80%. Hormonal changes play a big role. As estrogen and progesterone decline, they disrupt systems that regulate sleep, temperature, and even our stress response, leaving you feeling wired but tired. Add in caregiving stress and circadian rhythm shifts, it's no wonder women are lying awake at 3 a.m. Poor sleep isn't just about fatigue. It's linked to cardiovascular disease, the number one cause of death in women, and measurable cognitive changes like memory lapses, brain fog, and anxiety.

54:50Dr. Mary Claire Haver:But here is the good news. We can treat this. Evidence-based strategies like improving sleep hygiene, managing stress with breathing techniques, and ensuring adequate magnesium L-theanine and melatonin support can all help. For some women, hormone therapy or cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia makes a profound difference. Here's the bottom line. You're not imagining it, and you can absolutely claim restorative sleep. Your sleep matters. Your health matters. And you deserve solutions that work.

55:31Dr. Mary Claire Haver:All right, so 25-year-old Tamsen. Yes. What did she think that 54-year-old Tamsen would be doing? 25-year-old Tamsen didn't know if she was going to see 54 because I lost my mom at 51. Yeah. And I didn't have a roadmap or a thought for anything that happened after that. I just was blank. 51 was the age that she was gone. So 54 was like, what? I don't know. But I do think that I always had this idea growing up, you know, retire. It's going to get older. It's like I could never have imagined I'd be sitting here talking about any subject like this, first of all, or be looking at being looking forward to the next 40 years.

56:15Right. If you tell anybody that, I think they would say, what?

56:19Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Like that you would be writing books, producing documentaries. No. Oh, have a whole new community and group of friends in a different purpose, right? Of life. Don't you feel like that? Yeah. I turned 57 in August. And this is the year I survive all of my brothers. So I've lost three. So you know what I mean. And two of them were in their 50s. And so we were in Norway hiking with some good friends of ours. And it was one of the toughest hikes I've ever done in my life as far as like elevation change. And Norway is coming out straight up out of the water for 10 ,000 feet. And so, you know, I just remember hiking that day and thinking my brothers didn't get here.

56:59Dr. Mary Claire Haver:And they'd be so proud, you know, of everything that I've been able to accomplish. But like me at 25, I just at 57 or at 60, you know, that was always grandbabies, being quiet. I just saw this old lady. Yeah. Not anyone in full glam, you know, with fake eyelashes doing a podcast. And your eyelashes look very good, by the way. Thank you. Yeah. I survived my mom at 51. So it was three years ago. Tell me about that year, that day. Yeah, because 50 wasn't hard for me. 50 wasn't a thing. It was just kind of went through. It was also during the pandemic. So it wasn't really, you know, but 51, I remember thinking like, I can't believe this.

57:36Like this was my mom. And I think at that, when I was young, that seemed like an older age, obviously. And when I think about all the stuff she went through in those younger years, starting at 44 years old. Like she battled breast cancer for a long time. And yeah, I think I felt really sad and I felt real appreciative. And I do feel like every day is kind of a dedication to what she was not able to do. And so I'm real appreciative that I'm here. And I am hopeful that for all the remaining years that I'm here, that it helps, you know, other women that are coming up through this. I do feel a very deep service to her, you know, and all other women, but really to her to do this next part right.

58:24Dr. Mary Claire Haver:So in this journey, you know, we've kind of covered what your publishers thought, what you're going to get podcasts. But talk about your community, like your friends. Did you get pushback from any of them being like, Tamsin? Yes. Did you? I mean, I totally did. Well, they knew you were a doctor, so you were probably talking about a lot of things that they were like. But, you know, walking away from the bread and butter of, you know, I was in academic practice. I had a very nice salary. I had the respect of my entire community. I delivered literally everyone's babies. And walking away from that security, I had insurance.

59:00Dr. Mary Claire Haver:I had, you know. Safety. I was like, if they build it, they'll come. Like, I did not know how to open a clinic. I had always been employed. I got a book. Me too. The Idiot's Guide to, like, Opening a Medical Practice. and like had to read all the rules and how to do it. But I just like something in me knew I needed to do this. But I took my girlfriends out to dinner in this big table in Galveston. And I said, I'm thinking about opening this clinic all on my own. No academic institution behind me, like just hanging up a shingle and just doing menopause care. And I don't think I can afford to take insurance because by the way, they're not gonna pay you to do menopause care.

59:38Dr. Mary Claire Haver:And, you know, so then it's a risk of will women, will women be able to afford this and come? And like, we had a long conversation that night, but every single one of them was like, you have to do this. That's amazing. You have to do this. That's what community does for you. First, I think that they thought I was crazy talking about menopause in general. But second, I walked away from my career at a place that I had always wanted to get to. I always wanted to be an evening news anchor. I always wanted to be, you know, in that primetime spot, delivering people the news of what happened that day and what was going to happen the next day to prepare them for the next day.

1:00:12And, you know, New York is in my soul. And I love telling the stories of New York, but I knew that there was not a more important story for me to be telling than this one. And so when I made that decision, and it took me a long time, I remember Ira and I were, we were out of the country and I walked into the bathroom and we were like standing there. And I said, I think I need to go. And he's like, you need to go where? Go back home? And I said, no, I think I need to leave my job. And was this ridiculous? Am I like, but I can't do what I want to do and do this full time. I was doing five shows a day, a day, not a week, a day.

1:00:49And so he said, well, I mean, you have to prepare to do that. And I said, I know. And I needed to prepare myself, right? Because for me, I'd always worked for corporate. I've always worked for a news station. And my identity was so wrapped up in my job. Like I was the job. Like I was the anchor. I was, that's all Tamsyn was. I didn't know myself outside of that. So, yeah, people, a lot of people said like, are you, are you sure you want to do this? Why can't you just do that on the side and have fun with that and keep doing your job? And it took me about another year. And then I made the decision.

1:01:23I went to the head of the network, the CEO of the company, and I said, this is what I need to do. And he said, you know, I can't start any way. Can we figure this out? And so they let me remove one of my shows that I was only doing four shows. And I did that for about six months. And then I finally said, no, it's time for me to go. And so graciously, that let me out of my contract. I had a contract. I had all the things that I'd ever wanted. I had all the things I ever wanted. But it was just so important for me to do that. And so I stepped away almost two years ago now. Yeah, I felt that way too.

1:01:55Like I had everything I wanted.

1:01:56Dr. Mary Claire Haver:I had gotten to what had always been my goal, program director, you know, respected in the community. But like this menopause thing was screaming, screaming, screaming. This is what you need to be doing. I was doing news and I was over here on the side, like the 39 symptoms of... I couldn't stop. I just couldn't stop. So what would you go back and tell yourself now that you have all this education and knowledge, you know, to that 40-something-year-old Tamsin sitting in the chair, losing her words? Oh, gosh. If you would have been the anchor sitting next to her. I would have been like, listen, I know what's going on with you.

1:02:32And I don't want you to be alarmed. I want you to just hear me and not feel insulted or shamed by it. but this is what you need to go do. I would have already had a doctor ready. Here's a doctor. I just texted you the information and you need to go do this. And, you know, I have done that when I have women that are coming and working with me or on my team. I'm like, I'm not telling you this just because this is what we're talking about all the time. But I think this is what's happening. I don't feel any kind of hesitation of saying it to another woman now. And I think that that's what we have to get is not feeling scared to insult somebody or they're going to take it the wrong way because this is our health and they've got to get that help sooner rather than later.

1:03:08Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Do you think the needle's moving though? We're getting less resistance to this conversation? I do in some areas. I mean, I feel like the algorithm is just serving me this 24-7. Me too. My husband's like, I see none of what you're talking about. I know. It sends it to me 24-7 too. But I do think that it's changing. And I do think that I hear the conversation from people differently than I did before, for sure. And I'm like, either they've caught it from me or they are really seeing it, you know, differently. And so I do, I think it's a big conversation. I think that we know it's in mainstream media.

1:03:41I think that there's no question about that. I think that I want to be careful because when we hit this side of it, we want to be careful of people just being in the conversation for being in the conversation. We want it to be that we're educating. We want it to be that it's helping and serving women constantly. And I think as long as we're doing that, then that is the right thing.

1:03:59Dr. Mary Claire Haver:So you're, you know, kicked down some doors in media. Your social media presence is huge as well. Your social media presence is huge, my friend. Thank you. I had no idea that was going to happen, by the way. I don't think any of us did. I don't think any of us did. You wake up and you have another. I remember like in the early days making a video and like running to my kids and saying, is this, is this being viral? What is this? You know, like how many views does it take? And like just seeing the response was just overwhelming. I do think a lot of what happened on social with me was being at the right place at the right time with a real message that was resonating.

1:04:32Dr. Mary Claire Haver:I was just validating people's symptoms. I said the word frozen shoulder one day and I got 10 million hits, you know, of women like blowing up my DMs like, what? So what's the next door you're going to kick in? We're going to kick in the before, you know, before the pause door for sure. So I feel like that's the millennials and see where that goes from there because I think that's a really big one. And I'm really enjoying the podcast. I really love that because that gets me back to my journalism roots, which, you know, it allows me to combine the two worlds that I really do love. And then I think what's exciting about this time is not knowing where it goes next.

1:05:05Like, I could never have predicted in the two years that we're in where I would be even right this minute. And I don't think you could either. I don't think if we go back and rewind, like, where were Tamsin and Marie Claire two years ago? I mean, I think we were in Vegas at a QVC thing. We've crisscrossed the country together. We meet up in different cities and, like, speak on a stage and then leave and then hug each other and then get on Instagram, you know. And so I can't imagine, like, I get excited thinking like, where am I going to be in a year? I know. It's amazing. It's awesome. Do you feel like menopause has given you purpose?

1:05:40I know it's given me purpose. I also know that the community has given me purpose. And I think that that more than anything else has been really remarkable. And friends like you, quite frankly, you know? What's the favorite part of the community? My favorite part of the community is being picking up the phone at any moment of any time of day and be like, hey, girl, I got to say something to you. Can you help me with this? Can you talk to me? You and I have done it to each other recently. That's my favorite part. And that validates a couple of different things that women really do support each other.

1:06:10And also that we've always got somebody to lean on that really gets us. And I think I want everyone to have that.

1:06:15Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Yeah, me too. For the women listening, there's so many out there who tell me they feel lost, that they feel like they're losing themselves. And, you know, I do, like you, have people stopping me on the street. You've changed my life. And I feel like those women and the ones who are still struggling, they haven't found the community. Yes. They haven't found the right partner in a clinician. They haven't found, you know, what would you say to her? Oh, gosh. Tune in and stay in touch with all of us, first of all, because I do think there is something that is very sound with seeing more and more people going through this.

1:06:48But I would say that you have to find somebody that can help you with those symptoms. Because I think most of the time those come from very physical things, right? They come from not being able to sleep, feeling like you're going crazy, and I know it. Bleeding and not knowing why, gaining weight and not being able to figure it out, brain fog. Between sleep and brain fog, just those two can make you feel so lost. So I would say that's the first step, and I think the second step is really focusing on that provider. And if you have a to-do list every day, put that on the top, put that on the top, put that on the top before anything else that you do.

1:07:23because if you're not getting that help, you can't do the rest of that. And I do really realize how important that is now. I think before we'd be like, oh, maybe spend some time doing this or that or whatever. I love yoga. Me too, but lighting a candle is not going to help you get more sleep. Not going to resuscitate your ovaries. It's not going to do that. And so taking charge of that is so important. And I think that that's what you have to do before anything else. Yeah. Anything else.

1:07:50Dr. Mary Claire Haver:Menopause often feels like that society, that the world, it's time to slow down. It's time to become invisible. It's time to hit pause. What are you doing to focus on unpausing at this part of your life? Oh, traveling more. I think being receptive to things that like instead of having to, oh, you have a plan, like I got to do this, I got to do that, I got to do this. I think that that is a huge part of where I get my freedom and my peace right now. Yeah. Yeah. I love it, actually. Well, I'm so happy you came on the podcast today. I'm so happy to be here. I love this journey with you. I love it with you.

1:08:21Dr. Mary Claire Haver:I really do. I can't wait to see what you do next. I can't wait for the documentary. I can't wait to see what you do next, my friend. As a reminder to our audience, you can order Tamsin's book, How to Menopause on Amazon. You can also listen to Tamsin's podcast, The Tamsin Show, wherever you get your podcasts or watch it on YouTube. And of course, you can follow her at Tamsin Fidel on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and LinkedIn. I'd love to hear from you about this topic or anything else that's on your mind. You can find me on Instagram at Dr. Mary Claire and get honest and accurate information on health, fitness, and navigating midlife at thepawselife.com.

1:09:04Dr. Mary Claire Haver:If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. While you're there, leave us a review and be sure to share the show with the women you love. We would be so grateful. You can also find full episodes on YouTube at Dr. Mary Claire. Unpaused is presented by Odyssey in conjunction with Pod People. I'm your host, Dr. Mary Claire Haver. The views and opinions expressed on Unpaused are those of the talent and guests alone and are provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. No part of this podcast or any related materials are intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.