Ann Marie Burr

26:59He says he's one of the only officers that believes she might still be alive. He told Pyle, quote, An 8-year-old kid can be brainwashed in a few months by somebody who's nice to her. She's out there somewhere. End quote. Dross still had Anne-Marie's file, which was now up to a thousand pages. He says he's read it a dozen times and practically hasn't memorized at this point. He believes that everything points to Anne-Marie being taken by someone she knew, specifically by someone who cherished her. Despite Drost's extreme dedication to the case, it's been over a decade now, and the tips just slowed down.

27:39There were some new tips that she might be in Europe, but like the sightings reported before, they just didn't pan out. But around this same time, news about a serial killer named Ted Bundy was sweeping the nation, and the possible connection to Anne-Marie was something they couldn't ignore. Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.

28:20Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS. Meet the computer you can talk to. With Copilot on Windows, working, creating, and collaborating is as easy as talking. Got writer's block? Share your screen with Copilot Vision to help spark inspiration. And use Copilot Voice to have a conversation and brainstorm ideas. Or maybe you need some tech help. With Copilot Vision, Copilot sees what you see. Let Copilot talk you through step-by-step guidance so you can master new apps, games, and skills faster. Try now at windows.com slash copilot. Ted Bundy was added to the FBI's top 10 fugitives list on February 10th, 1978.

29:04He was arrested five days later when he was stopped by police for speeding. By 1980, Ann Rule's now infamous book, The Stranger Beside Me, about the killer, was released. In it, she discussed Ann Marie and the possible connection to Bundy as a teenager. Though the popular belief is that Bundy committed most of his 30 or so murders from 1974 to 1978, some of his statements leave many wondering if Anne Marie could have been his first kill. See, while Bundy was spending time on Florida's death row, he did a lot of interviews. In 1980 and 1981, he spoke to two journalists and told them a story in the third person about killing a girl in an orchard.

29:47Now, this didn't really catch anyone's attention until Beverly and Donald later read the book that came of these interviews, The Only Living Witness, in 1983. Donald thought back to the teenager at the construction site on the day Anne-Marie went missing. His smirk, his face. He couldn't be sure if it was Ted Bundy, but believed it may have been. Not only was there an orchard next to the Burr family home, Ted Bundy grew up nearby. He and his mother moved from Philadelphia to Tacoma, Washington in 1950 when he was about four, and he remained in the area until he was a young adult. Now, reporting on exactly how close the Burr family was to Bundy differs greatly.

30:33Some reporting says that Bundy lived right around the corner as a kid and spent a lot of time with Anne-Marie before moving a few miles away. It's been said that Anne-Marie took piano lessons at a home close to Bundy's uncle, or even with his uncle in some reports, that the Burr home was on Bundy's paper route. One neighbor has said that Annemarie followed Bundy around like a puppy and absolutely would have gone with him if he came to the home that night. But Beverly denies all this. She says Annemarie did take piano lessons, but not with Bundy's uncle or near his uncle. She doesn't recall them being on Bundy's paper route or knowing him at all as a child.

31:14Beverly was just stating the facts, but that didn't mean that she didn't want to explore this possibility On May 30th, 1986, she wrote a letter to Bundy in prison It read, quote Dear Ted, on August 31st, 1961, just before school was to start for you and our children There came a black rainy night with lots of heavy winds You were 15 and had been wandering the streets late at night and peeping in windows and taking cars I feel your first murder was R. Anne-Marie Burr. The bench from the backyard was used to climb into the living room. The orchard next door was a dark setting for murder. What did you do with the tiny body?

31:57God can forgive you. With all appeals likely to be refused, and soon, there is nothing left for you in this world, there can still be everything good for you in the next. Your life started going wrong somewhere when you were very young. There had to be a lot of bad things happen to make you have your strong feelings of hatred. I came close to ruining my life because of my cruel actions and feeling no sorrow about them. A lot of strange circumstances brought help to me I would not have found myself, even though I knew I needed help and my actions were getting out of control. You should have received that same help when you needed it.

32:37God can still give the help to you. if you can gather together any strength you have left and try to feel a real sorrow inside for the horrors you have brought to so many. You will face these horrors alone if there is no chance to be with God after you die. You have nothing more to lose in this world. By explaining your sickness, you will feel sorrow and gain everything in the next life, as God promised you and all of us. Please try. There isn't much time. I am so sorry you did not get help when you first needed it. I have not written until now, because the end of your life for you did not seem near until now.

33:16Will you write to me regarding Anne-Marie? Beverly Burr, mother of Anne-Marie Burr. End quote. Bundy replied about a week later, saying, quote, Dear Beverly, thank you for your letter of May 30th. I can certainly understand you doing everything you can to find your daughter. Unfortunately, you have been misled by what can only be called rumors about me. The best thing I can do for you is to correct these rumors, these falsehoods. First and foremost, I do not know what happened to your daughter, Anne-Marie. I had nothing to do with her disappearance. You said she disappeared August 30th, 1961. At the time, I was a normal 14-year-old boy.

34:01I did not wander the streets late at night. I did not steal cars. I had absolutely no desire to harm anyone. I was just an average kid. For your sake, you really must understand this. Again and finally, I did not abduct your daughter. I had nothing to do with her disappearance. If there is still something you wish to ask me about this, please don't hesitate to write again. God bless you and be with you. Peace, Ted. End quote. Nothing in those letters tells me that Beverly Burr actually knew Ted Bundy, but he was obviously a very sick and disgusting human who enjoyed playing games. Later that same year, he told the story of killing a young girl in an orchard again to Dr.

34:51Ronald Holmes. Holmes was an associate professor of criminal justice at the University of Louisville. He had a grant to study serial killers. In this interview, Bundy told Holmes that he, quote, stalked, strangled, and sexually mauled his first victim, an 8-year-old girl who mysteriously vanished from her Tacoma home 26 years ago, end quote. Doing the math, that year comes out to 1960, the year before Anne-Marie went missing. But Holmes would go on to claim that Bundy told him directly that the girl he was discussing was Anne-Marie, and that he, quote, stashed the body of Anne-Marie Burr in a muddy pit, possibly near the University of Puget Sound, end quote.

35:37Now, I say claimed here because some people do question the professor's findings as this conversation was never recorded. However, Bundy would also tell Yale psychiatrist and researcher Dr. Dorothy Otnaw Lewis that when he was, quote, 12-14-15 in the summer, something happened. Something I'm not sure what it was. I would fantasize about coming up to some girl sunbathing in the woods, or something innocuous like that. I was beginning to get involved in what they would call, developed a preference for what they would call, auto-erotic sexual activity. A portion of my personality was not fully, it began to emerge.

36:18By the time I realized how powerful it was, I was in big trouble. End quote. However, in another interview with Washington State investigator Robert Keppel, Bundy again outright denied these claims, saying, quote, No, absolutely not. That's one of the few I wish that people would believe. End quote. He even requested a polygraph test to prove that he didn't kill Anne-Marie. Now, we don't know if Bundy killed her or not, but we do know that even among the most hardiest, craziest criminals, there is still a major stigma around child predators. According to some reports, this is a stigma that even a complete piece of trash like Ted Bundy wanted to be excluded from.

37:08Now, Bundy was executed on January 24th, 1989 Basically, minute-by-minute updates were broadcast across local radio stations and really the nation Beverly and Donald followed it closely, hoping for a last-minute confession But it never came Your planet is now marked for death Marvel Studios' The Fantastic Four First Steps is now streaming on Disney Plus We will protect you as a family. Light them up, Johnny! Marvel's first family is certified fresh on Rotten Tomatoes. That is fantastic. And critics say it's one of the best superhero movies of all time. Oh! Marvel Studios The Fantastic Four First Steps now streaming on Disney+.

37:52Rated PG-13. What time has it been? It's summer time! This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios upcoming comedy Ella McKay. From Academy Award winning writer, director James L. Brooks. Emma Mackey plays Ella McKay, an idealistic young woman who juggles family and work in a story about the people you love and how to survive them. Featuring an all-star cast, including Jamie Lee Curtis, Jack Loudon, Kumail Nanjiani, Iowa Debris, Julie Kavner, with Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson. Ella McKay in theaters December 12th. Get tickets now. Anne-Marie's case was stagnant for quite a few years after this.

38:32The next major event wasn't until the mid-1990s, when Beverly got a call from a psychiatrist in Tacoma who had a patient who believed she was Anne Marie. So, Beverly baked an apple pie and invited her to the Burr home. She says that the moment she saw this woman, she knew it wasn't Anne Marie. But they stayed in touch. Beverly and Donald visited her about five times, and after about two years, their daughter Julie asked them to please get a DNA test just to put it to rest. The woman was not Anne-Marie, but Beverly kept photos of this woman until her death. In 1999, the Burrs held their first memorial service for Anne-Marie at St.

39:13Patrick's Catholic Church. They said they wanted to do this for a very long time, but there always seemed to be something in the way. Some clue, some lead that gave them hope that they wouldn't have to have this service. At the memorial, Julie spoke about her parents, quote, you probably wanted to crawl into bed and bury your head as each day and year passed with no answer, but instead you gathered strength and provided us with a wonderful childhood, end quote. Donald Burr passed away in 2003 and Beverly in 2008. Before her death, Beverly spent a lot of time with Rebecca Morris, who I mentioned earlier.

39:56Morris is one of the primary sources of information about Anne-Marie. I relied heavily on her work because of the time she spent with Beverly Burr. She says that near the end, Beverly really didn't know what to think about Anne-Marie's disappearance. She went back and forth between Bundy being responsible and the teenage neighbor, but ultimately she leaned more towards that neighbor. But by this point, she said that she didn't really want to know the details of what happened to Anne-Marie. She was at peace that she was gone. Now, I'm sure she wasn't perfect, none of us are, but Beverly seemed like a pretty cool lady and a rather dedicated mother.

40:37Before she died, she actually wrote her own obituary, saying she didn't want a lot of fuss. It reads, quote, Thank you, God, for letting me live in this beautiful world you created. Thank you for five precious children and dear relatives and friends. End quote. At the time of her death, she had seven grandchildren and three great-grandchildren. Her daughter Laura, who was adopted after Anne-Marie's disappearance, says her mother was determined and strong, and despite what she'd gone through, never felt like the world was unfair. In 2011, detectives in Tacoma made one last attempt to connect Ted Bundy to Anne-Marie's disappearance.

41:20They realized that blood was taken from Bundy when he was arrested in 1978, and began asking around about where the blood was now. Luckily, it had been retained, and a full DNA profile was created for Bundy and put into the FBI's database. This was then tested against several pieces of evidence retained from the Burr home. This gave Anne-Marie's siblings hope that no matter what the result, at least this piece of the puzzle would finally be laid to rest. But unfortunately, a full DNA profile was never able to be created from the evidence found in the Burr home, and no match to Bundy was ever made.

42:00Mark Fulgham from the Tacoma PD told the Tacoma Herald that this was a dead end. but the investigation was not over. Unfortunately, though, it does seem like there haven't been any major revelations in the case since then. Which brings me right to our call to action. Please share Anne-Marie's case. Her story obviously got a lot of attention due to the popularity of Ted Bundy, but there's still so much misinformation out there about the circumstances surrounding his possible involvement. She deserves so much better than to be a footnote in that monster's story Please share her picture, please share her story While Anne-Marie would be in her 70s now She has surviving relatives that I'm sure Would like some answers to this haunting family mystery There is always hope

42:59As a reminder Anne-Marie Burr was 8 years old when she went missing, likely in the early morning hours of August 31, 1961. She is white, with straight blonde hair and hazel eyes. When she went missing, she was 4 '2", weighed approximately 55 pounds, and was barefoot, wearing a light blue floral nightgown that went down to her ankles. If you have any information about Anne-Marie Burr, please call the Tacoma Police Department at 253-798-4721 or Crimestoppers at 1-800-222 -TIPS. But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time. Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice media original.

43:54If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show in your podcast player. It's an easy and free way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice.

44:17Thank you.

44:50Welcome to the Secret After Show. The door is open. The dogs, our emotional support puppies, are in. Let's talk about Anne-Marie's case. I get really intimidated to cover cases that include serial killers, I'm not going to lie, and that's because I don't know a lot about them. I specifically don't know a ton about Ted Bundy. I know like nothing about Ted Bundy. I had to do a lot of research. But I did, you know, double check my sources and really tried hard to make sure that the information here was correct. Just because I've never been that person where I've been interested in serial killers.

45:34And there's something I wanted to talk about in reference to that. So I guess first and foremost, I hope that I did it justice. I really tried my hardest and studied very hard. And like I said, double, triple checked my sources, but there is a lot of conflicting information out there about Ted Bundy. My goodness. But when I was researching Ann's case, I came across this statement. Well, this, okay. So basically what happened was there was this like debate when Ted Bundy was about to be executed, I guess. And this probably is like not news to any of you. I feel like so late to learning about Ted Bundy.

46:15He's just like trash and I hate everything about him. But so there was this debate about whether or not there was any scientific value in keeping Ted Bundy alive to study him. And Donald Byrd did chime in. He told the Tacoma News Tribune, excuse me, in an article by Jack Pyle on January 23rd, 1989, quote, serial killers are one of a kind. There's only one Ted Bundy. Statistically, I don't think there is anything that could be gained, end quote. And I think that this is kind of a hot topic in true crime. And it could just be a family member thing. But I'm on Donald's side. This is something I've talked about for such a long time.

47:03And I think being close to someone who I believe is a murderer, being raised by someone I believe is a murderer, who many people believe is a murderer, of possibly more than one person, I get that. Like, growing up with somebody who is a monster, there's, you know, I mean, And maybe sometimes, right? I'm sure. I'm sure that there are stories out there where you can point to something and say this. This is what caused this and how do we prevent it in the future? I feel like that is very rare. In my case, it was like, there's no rhyme or reason sometimes, right? I think it's hard for people to accept that sometimes people just do bad things because they're bad people or they're having a bad day or a bad moment.

47:58And that is such an unsatisfying explanation. And I get it. And I understand why that really pushes people to study people like Ted Bundy, to study killers in general. You know, they're looking for patterns. They're looking for something that they can point to and say that. That's what makes them different from me. That's what makes a bad person. This is what makes a good person. Clean cut, end of day, we're done. And I just don't think it works like that. So, Donald Burr, rest in peace. I am right there with you. Now, I could go on about that forever. I am forcing myself to move on. If that is something you want me to talk about in the future, let me know, because I would love to.

48:41the inner dynamics of true crime and why we do what we do in this genre is something that I will probably never stop talking about. But back to Anne-Marie in this case. Now, one part that really hit me was when these detectives were doing like everything they could. I low-key love when detectives will work with these psychics, will work with people who are doing extensive of extrasensory research. And this man who thought he would find Anne-Marie through radiation responses to her clothing. Obviously, I think a lot out there is junk science. Body language, polygraphs. I think there's so much junk science in true crime.

49:26But what I love is the effort behind it, right? Even Lieutenant Richardson said, you know, he was a crackpot, but he was sincere. There's something I love about that. There's something I love about the police taking a chance and not just shutting them down immediately, like we see in so many cases. And I'm not saying that it's not a waste of resources. I'm not saying that there's a legitimate reason to say yes to every psychic that comes up in a case. I'm not saying that. I think that there's something beautiful in that hope. I guess that's the best way to put it. I think there's something beautiful in that hope.

50:08Speaking of hope, which, gosh, I talk about hope a lot. Beverly keeping the picture of the woman who is not Anne-Marie. Oh, my gosh. That shattered my heart. Over the years, she really did become close to this woman. And just the whole, like, she baked an apple pie and said, come right on over. It's so sweet. and I can absolutely understand getting close to that woman and even the desperation to just want her to be Aunt Marie, the hesitation on testing. There wasn't like a definitive hesitation on testing. It just took them a long time. Again, there's something beautiful about that hope and something beautiful about Beverly not being upset with this woman and trying to understand her, that it seems like she was clearly going through some type of mental health crisis.

51:05Beverly's a badass, and she seems so compassionate and so honest and so raw, even in that letter to Bundy where she talks about, you know, having periods of time where she wasn't a great person. There's something so raw and real and honest about that that I just respect. I could go on about Beverly Burr all day and how freaking cool it was that she wrote her own obituary. I mean, again, she just seemed like a really cool lady, and according to her kids, she was. So, yeah. Hard case. Old case. But I do believe that there's hope for answers. We see these older cases solved all the time. Why not Anne-Marie?

51:52Now, moving on to me, not a lot is happening. Actually, the dogs are both going through their senior wellness exams, which it's like they test their blood, they test their urine, just to make sure that everything's okay. Now, Marley came back with a clean bill of health. They were a little concerned about levels in his kidneys. We switched to a new food. We're going to look at that, but they're not too worried. Popcorn though, he, he's okay. He's okay. They're not too worried, but I am. They, they fear that he might have the beginning stages of Cushing's disease. And they don't know. They don't know.

52:34We are doing further testing. He's on some liver supplements right now, but it's really scary and it really sucks and I hate everything about it. But like I said, they said not to worry, but this is the segment that's what's going on in my life. So it has been filled with worries about my senior dogs who are 11 and 17 and I love them more than probably anything in this world. Um, and yeah, they are our emotional support dogs. So, um, please send good thoughts, Good thoughts for popcorn, good thoughts for Marley. I'm probably just being a helicopter mom, but yeah, it's taken up my week. But you guys, there is always hope.

53:19I'm not going to get down. I am going to stay positive. We are manifesting that this is just a fluke and that these liver pills are going to work great for popcorn. The food's going to work great for Marley and they will be fantastic and live forever. So let's go on to our segment of hope. This was submitted by the amazing Brooke Haynes, our reporter here for the show who cannot help herself when she sees an article that she thinks is a good fit for the segment of hope. She sends it my way and I am so grateful for that. Brooke, I know you are listening. Thank you. I love you. This one comes out of Texas.

53:56now a 12 year old girl that had been missing for over a week in February of this year was found unharm despite concerns from the Houston PD that she may have been trafficked you guys probably noticed a little difference here I started scripting out these segments just a little bit giving myself some talking points because I realized that I I felt like I wasn't really giving you guys the full story I focused on the hope part and I left you kind of hanging in some areas about like what happened to these people. I just get so excited about the hope part that I want to make sure I include the full story.

54:29So she was found unharmed. They were scared that she might have been trafficked at first, but that wasn't the case. The way she was found was pretty interesting to me. So she was apparently using a social media app called Tagged. I've never heard of it before, but parents out there, you should probably be aware of it. It's used to meet people essentially. Now, the app's parent company, the Meet Group, reached out to officials in Texas to offer their assistance, like, unprompted. Now, while this app, of course, like, has a privacy policy and all that, and they normally don't give info to police unprompted, they do have a policy that if they suspect that anybody is underage while using the app and possibly being exploited, that they report that to the respective law enforcement agency.

55:18Police aren't releasing details about exactly what happened to this girl. They're just saying that she is unharmed, and it makes our segment of hope because she came home. And also because this amazing policy from the meat group. While they may seem, and maybe they are, some faceless corporation, someone made that policy. Somebody saw her profile, somebody said something to police. And to whomever did that, you are hero or heroes of the day. Thank you. And as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here. Wishing you a very happy half-off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50 % off unlimited.

56:03To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So, that means a half day. Yeah. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed flow after 35 gigabytes of network's busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com. Do you ever meet someone and think, wow, they've really been through it, and then realize we all have? That's what We're All Insane is all about. It's a podcast where real people sit down to share their stories that have shaped them.

56:37the raw, unfiltered moments that don't usually make it into everyday conversation. There are no scripts, no interruptions, and no filters, just honest storytelling that unfolds naturally. From heartbreak and loss to recovery and resilience, every episode is a reminder that even in our darkest moments, we're never really alone. If you love hearing real stories that make you feel something, stories that connect us all, this is one you'll want to subscribe to. You can listen to We're All Insane wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Sunday.