Celina Mays

26:31So, what was CJ telling the media now? Well, in an Associated Press article published on January 6th, CJ says he thinks Selena ran away out of fear. He told them, quote, I want to let Selena know that her dad is concerned, and whatever it is you want will support you. End quote. In another interview, Yvette would say that maybe Selena thanking them before going to bed that night was her way of saying goodbye. While CJ's side of the family was staying calm, cool, and collected, Lynn's side of the family, who lived in Michigan and Florida, say that they remain hopeful, but they're not sure that she's alive.

27:10They say that they tried multiple times to reach out to CJ, and he never let them talk to Selena. Now they're appalled at what they're hearing about her life in New Jersey since her mom's death. When they talk to the media, they make it known that she and her child are welcome to come stay with them, and say that if or when she's found, they're happy to take CJ back to court for custody. Selena's aunt, Cindy Cram, told the Associated Press, quote, if she's alive, she needs to know that her mother's family wants her and her baby. No questions asked, end quote. She's also very upfront about her feelings.

27:48She says she's scared that Selena is not alive, and that the church, quote, did away with her, end quote. And slowly but surely throughout all these interviews, the truth of Selena's life was kind of unfolding. Lynn's sister Marilyn told the Courier Post that CJ was cruel, and she was afraid that he was hiding something. Cram shared that CJ had beaten her sister multiple times, and that Lynn had to seek counsel at the Providence House in Willingborough, a shelter for victims of domestic violence. Lynn's sisters say that when Lynn was still alive, she was scared of Sarita's church, saying it was more like a cult.

28:27Selena's older brother Robert said that he repeatedly tried to reach out to Selena over the last two and a half years, but her father wouldn't let them speak. He says that over those years, he only got Selena on the phone once, and the whole time CJ was in the background telling her to hang up. He says that he told her to press a button if she was unhappy there, and was heartbroken when he heard a beep. And really, this battle between two sides just continues to ensue in the media. CJ went to the local news and said that Lynn's family was maybe harboring Selena. He said that they were racist, saying they never liked him because he was black and Lynn was white.

29:06He admits that his life was not going well when he was with Lynn, and that he was abusive, but he also says that he helped Lynn recover from substance use disorder, and accuses her of keeping Selena from him after their separation because he was behind on child support. He says he's a changed man since joining Gospel of Christ, and publicly defends his church against anyone who criticizes it and compares it to a cult. But at this point, more people are coming forward, and those cult accusations were not rare. Many former church members spoke to the press, and they said they thought it was impossible that Sarita didn't know who the father of Selina's child was.

29:46They said that she knew everything that went on in her church members' lives, One former member told The Courier Post, I think it's possible that CJ doesn't know. He's just as brainwashed as everyone else. But there's no doubt in my mind that Sarita knows. She controls everything in that house. She's not a violent person. I can't picture her doing anyone physical harm. But she has a way of putting fear in you. Telling you that her way is the way of God. And if you don't follow, you'll be punished. End quote. Now, despite all these rising tensions between both sides of Selena's family, they were united on one thing.

30:24They were frustrated with how the police were handling this. The police, however, say that they just don't have much to go on. Because Selena was so isolated, they couldn't really interview teachers, neighbors, or friends. Really, no one outside of the church knew Selena. And everyone they were interviewing that was a part of the church said that they wouldn't even suspect who the father was. and everyone denied knowing where Selena was. Of course, police interview Sean Smith. This happens on January 10th, and he tells them he doesn't know where Selena is, and he's not the father of her baby. When asked to take a polygraph, he says he'll get back to them about that, then leaves and never comes back.

31:09When they reach out again, Sarita had hired a lawyer for him. Police also speak to Tawana, But at this time, she was terrified of Sarita. So when they ask if Sean's the father of Selena's baby, she tells them no. And of course, Sarita really becomes like the star of this show in the media. She was telling them and her congregation exactly what she thought about Selena going missing. Journalist Richard Pearsall, who covered this case extensively for The Courier Post, sat in on one of Sarita's church services. and he reports that she told the church that her niece was a liar and deceived the family and church repeatedly by not revealing the child's father and by running away.

31:53She said that the Bible tells you to cry out rape or molestation and Selena did no such thing. She says Selena chose to engage in sinful sexual acts which led to her pregnancy. She said, quote, 12 years old is but a number. Some 12 year olds make you think that they're 18 years old. And I knew she was up to something. This is an evil and perverse generation. End quote. Just absolutely disgusting statements. Pearsall also interviewed Dr. Williams, who in less brazen terms basically said the same thing. She said Selina was, quote, wise beyond her years, more resourceful than people give her credit for.

32:39End quote. Williams theorizes that since Selena was taken from living with her mother to living in a strictly religious community, that these changes in lifestyle were just too stark for her, and she rebelled as a way to figure out who she was in the middle of these two extremes. She said that she didn't believe Selena was being abused, because she was comfortable being examined, while other girls her age who had been abused were not. She also says that Selena was taking being pregnant in stride. When discussing the baby's father, Dr. Williams said, quote, she's protecting him. She's afraid he'll be prosecuted, end quote.

33:17She also added that she didn't think Selena's family had anything to do with it, because they asked for a paternity test, and to her, that didn't seem like something a guilty party would do. Now, I think it's very important to note that while Dr. Williams was not a member of the church, she was Sarita's obstetrician and gynecologist. Dr. Williams' husband also reportedly knew Sarita, so obviously she was not any type of outsider to this situation, and was likely being influenced by Sarita and her teachings as well. In fact, Selena was basically seeing Dr. Williams under the table. All of her appointments were paid for in cash, and the office did not keep medical records for her.

33:59But let's go back to Tawana, who seems like a much more reliable source. Tawana says that Sarita coached Selena on what to tell the doctor, and that she crafted the story about the 16-year-old boy as a cover-up. Now, she actually says that CJ believed his daughter that it was Sean's baby, and once the baby was born, they'd get that test to prove that it was Sean's. After that, they would leave the church and go to Florida. Tawana says that she was supposed to go with, too, and help take care of the baby. But, of course, none of these plans ever came to be, and she says it was like he forgot when Selena went missing.

34:36Basically, everything Sarita and CJ told the media were lies.

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35:51He said that she was with a group of people and didn't appear to be pregnant, but he couldn't tell for sure because she was wearing baggy clothes. He said the group even had this photographer taking pictures of their dinner. While police are trying to confirm this, word got around that Selena was alive and well. The Associated Press even reported it. In an interview, Cindy Graham said, quote, we're absolutely thrilled Selena's alive, end quote. But this was still being investigated. One of the men believed to be with Selena came back into the restaurant a few days later. The owner wrote down his license plate number, sure that this was the key to cracking this case.

36:30Police tracked this man down and all the other people in the party, and the girl was not Selena. And of course, her mom's family was devastated. Cindy Graham told the Courier Post, quote, Last week we were all so happy that she was positively identified and that she was alive. This week we don't have a clue. End quote. Now, around this same time, she actually opened a P.O. box for Selena, requesting that anyone who knew anything anonymously send their tips to the P.O. box. or even better, if Selena was out there, for her to send them a letter telling them that she was okay. She promised that she wouldn't give the information submitted through the P.O.

37:12box to police and told the Courier Post that the family had money saved to support Selena that they would willingly hand over if someone else was taking care of her. Now, the police were actually supportive of this, saying that if this is the best way to find her, so be it. This is a confusing investigation. At this point, they hadn't searched any of the homes that Selena may be in or had lived in. Not the home on Crestview Drive, not any of the relatives' homes in Florida or Michigan, and Cindy Cram was frustrated. She was more than willing to open her home for a search. That way, everyone can kind of move on from this possibility and just find Selena.

37:56Meanwhile, at Crestview Drive, Tawana knew something about Selena's disappearance just wasn't adding up. She remembers going into Selena's room on the morning that she disappeared, and she only saw that her red puffer coat was gone. She left her purse, prenatal vitamins, and other belongings. It seemed to her that Selena didn't intend on being gone for very long. Now, she admits that at first she thought it was possible that Selena ran away, or that someone else in the church helped her escape. and she says that she couldn't blame Selena for taking that chance. But as the weeks passed, she became less and less sure, and increasingly alarmed because no one in the family was looking for her.

38:37They eventually stopped talking about Selena altogether. And even in her absence, Sarita had nothing kind to say about her niece. Eventually, Tawana was moved into Selena's bedroom, and she began going through her stuff, trying to piece together any answer she could. And that's when she found it. The diaper bag she bought from Goodwill. Tawana says that she knew if Selena had left willingly to have the baby, she would have taken it with her. Remember, Selena had next to nothing for this baby. She remembered that on the morning they discovered Selena wasn't in her room, Yvette seemed surprised, but Sean anxiously bounced his leg, then just went to his room without saying anything else.

39:23She says she also began to dream about Selena, and in those dreams, Selena would tell her to get out of the house. In other dreams, Selena would tell her she was dead. Then Tawana hit her breaking point. One night, in the summer of 1997, she remembers waking up to Sean holding his hand over her mouth, while Yvette pounded on the door, begging Tawana to wake up. Eventually, Yvette left, and Sean ducked out of the room. The next morning, Tawana left for good. She went right to the police and told them everything about Sean abusing her and Selina.

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40:49Try it at mintmobile.com slash switch. A front payment of$45 for three-month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com. The local media pretty much stopped talking about Selena when days and weeks passed with nothing new to report. Her case did receive some good national attention, though. It was featured on John Walsh's America's Most Wanted in the summer of 1997, and in In September, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children mailed out 73 million postcards with Selena's picture on them.

41:222.9 million went just to New Jersey. The FBI also became involved, but still didn't turn up any credible leads. It really seemed that despite Tawana being so brave by coming forward with this information, it just fell on deaf ears. It would take someone else coming forward. Eventually, the parents of another young woman in the church came forward to report Sean for rape, and with their testimony and Tawana's combined, an arrest warrant for aggravated sexual assault was issued. Now, this was not officially connected to Selena's case in any way, but it obviously helped lend credibility to Selena's reports of being raped by Sean.

42:04On January 29, 1998, Sean Smith appeared in court for a child custody hearing for one of his now many children. He was promptly arrested on the sexual assault warrants. After this, he was interviewed again by the Willingboro Police and the FBI about Selena's case, but still denied any involvement. He posted a$50 ,000 bond and was released from jail. And unfortunately, for whatever reason, those sexual assault charges were later dismissed. In November 1998, nearly two years since Selena was last seen, the police and FBI used thermal technology to fly over the home on Crestview Drive and the church.

42:48They were looking for remains. They also used dogs to search the area, but came up with nothing. In May 1999, Selena's picture was printed on millions of grocery bags throughout New Jersey and Pennsylvania. This did generate some leads, but again, nothing came of them. There were also more sightings of Selena, and none turned out to be her. In 2006, her photo was put on trucks across New Jersey and Florida. Still nothing. Over time, it seems that CJ really did take a step back from the church, and he eventually moved back to Miami. In 2007, his health was failing, so detectives went to pay him a visit.

43:29And finally, after all this time, he says that he knew Sean was the father of Selena's baby, and he wished that he stood up to Sarita about it. But he did maintain that he didn't know what happened to Selena or where she could be. Now, although Sean's sexual assault charges were dropped, and he hasn't been charged with anything related to Selena, he didn't go without any trouble. On November 15, 2012, he pled guilty to mail fraud in federal court. He had been working as an operations director for a warehouse for the non-profit Clothes for Kids, and admitted to defrauding the charity of over$100 ,000.

44:09In February 2013, he was sentenced to 18 months in federal prison. three years of supervised release, and he had to pay the victims over$117 ,000 in restitution. And unfortunately, that's basically where the case is today. Despite all these campaigns, billboards, grocery bags, posters, flyers, Selena remains missing. The current detective on her case, Monica Porgeselsky, says that she thinks about Selena every day, that they've followed on every tip they've gotten, but now many of these key players are deceased. CJ died in Miami in 2017, Sarita Smith died in 2018, and Sean Smith in 2020. But as I always say, there is always hope.

44:58Detective Porgazelski says that there are still people she wants to talk to, specifically a man named Keith Burns. He worked as a driver for the church in the 90s. She says that he's actually agreed to speak with them many times, and for whatever reason, it just never really works out. But as of 2022, they believed he was still out there and wanted to talk to him. This is such a tough case. Selena was surrounded by a community that seemed scared into talking, but as she's gotten older, Selena's little sister Noriel Maze has worked to come to terms with the truth about the environment she grew up in, and now realizes that a lot of what she heard about Selena growing up was just not as it seemed.

45:42She told ABC's Here and Now, quote, It really blows my mind, growing up and seeing how other families acted in other missing cases. They're out crying on TV and they're out putting up posters. I do know that my dad and a couple other family members, they did go on the news. They did go on a couple talk shows, but the family was divided, and the reason I really want to believe that my sister made it out, that she found a way to escape this madness, is that I don't want to believe that my family could be capable of killing one of their own. So I want to be as optimistic as possible, whether it was a friend, whether it was a relative on her mom's side, saw what she was going through and just discreetly got her out.

46:23I just want her to be alive. I want her child to be alive. I don't Want to believe that evil persists and dominates in this world in the way that it shows its face. End quote. While Tawana believes that Selina was killed by someone in the house, Noriel remains hopeful that Selina is out there. Detective Porgazelski also shared that she has the same hope, that maybe Selina's out there living under a different name, and she really hoped that with the deaths of Sean, Sarita, and CJ, someone would find the courage to bring new information to light. Noriel told Here and Now her message for Selena,

47:26third oldest daughter, I feel the need to find closure for us, for him, for you and his spirit, and just make sure that you're safe and you're sound. If you never want to have a relationship with me or the family, that is completely, completely understandable. But just knowing that you're alive, whether in this country or in another country, living your best life, and your child is warm and taken care of, that's the only thing I can hope and pray for. end quote. Which brings me right to our call to action. Please share Selena's picture and her story. And if you have any details about the disappearance of Selena Mays, please contact the Willingboro, New Jersey Police Department, the FBI, or the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

48:15The tiniest detail could break this case wide open. There is always hope.

48:26As a reminder, Selena Mays was reported missing in December 1996 from Willingboro Township in New Jersey. At the time of her disappearance, Selena was 12 years old and 9 months pregnant. Today, she would be 39 years old, and her child would be 27. Selena was 5 foot tall and weighed approximately 120 pounds. She is biracial, with brown eyes and long, dark, wavy brown hair. Again, anyone with information about Selena Mays is asked to call the Willingboro Police at 609-877-3001 or the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children at 1-800-THE-LOST. But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.

49:17Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice media original. This episode contains writing and research by our reporter, Brooke Haynes. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show on your podcast player. It's an easy and free way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice.

49:50Thank you.

50:19Thank you.

50:46Thank you.

51:28Welcome to the secret after show, the dogs are in, and my goodness, this case, I mean, I try not to sound like I'm devastated in each episode, which is mostly how I really feel. Um, I couldn't hide it in this one, and I am not going to apologize for that. This is a heartbreaking case, but it needs attention, which is why we're here. We can't just shy away from the awful when there are kids like Selena out there that still need help. There are so many things I want to say about this case, and none of them will probably surprise you. The blame and shape of rape and sexual assault was such a huge theme in this case.

52:18And of course, I just want to say that if anybody's out there going through a similar situation, there is help. It's just, I mean, heartbreaking. and not visiting the home struck such a chord with me. I have dreamed and I'm trying to finally get this in place or at least propose this legislation, but I would love to have something like an Alyssa's Law, especially obviously, like I would have to narrow it down to where I am now before I can go more broad, but it's a simple idea, and I don't know why it's not already in place. But basically, if a child is reported missing, I would love to see it mandated that an officer visit the home.

53:11That's it. Reported missing, they go visit the home that day. I think in this case, it would have made a huge difference. I know in my sister's case, it would have been all the difference. And I truly understand that police resources are lacking. I get it. I just talked to my local news about that here in Phoenix. You guys know I'm on the board of Season of Justice. We literally fund law enforcement. But I think that this is doable, and I don't think it's a lot to ask. Child goes missing, officer goes out to the home the same day. That's it. I also want to say, of course, if Tawana, Noreal, if you're out there listening, all my love to you.

53:54I know what it's like to be inside of a situation and believing one thing, especially about your older sister, and growing up and realizing that you were lied to. That nothing about your life, or at least so much about your life, was not as it seemed. so I just hope you know that it's not your fault and I send you all the love. Now on to what's been going on with me, what I'm reading, what I'm watching, which I gotta change this segment because I'm never telling you guys what I'm reading or watching because it's mostly podcast related and I don't want to give it away, but I can tell you that of course it is still full steam ahead with media pressure.

54:42For those of you in the VFJ Patreon, you know that you got a very special treat. I already posted episode one there, so if you cannot wait, you must hear episode one of media pressure because of course, you guys, I'm the worst at this, you can go over there to Patreon. There's even a free trial. You don't need to pay anything. You can go over and listen to it right now. I also wanted to let you guys know that I will actually be in person in New Hampshire for the 20th year vigil. This is completely open to the public, so I wanted to invite you guys too. It is on Friday, February 9th from 5 to 9 p.m.

55:18Eastern. You can find all that information on the Murray family social media channels. They tell you exactly where to go because it can be a little confusing. And on their flyer, they say, quote, For those who cannot attend, we ask that you please light a candle in honor of Maura at 7.30pm Eastern Time on Friday, February 9th, and post a picture on your social media using hashtag MauraMurray during the virtual Unity Candlelight Vigil to help raise awareness. So, if you're in the area, if you just want to help out Maura Murray's family, I would love to see you. And I have to do it. Please, please go follow Media Pressure and your favorite podcast player.

56:00It would help us out so much. And now, on to our segment of hope. And today, we have another Amber Alert success story. This comes right from People Magazine. The headline reads, Missing girl, 5, found safe in Kentucky. Dad is arrested for murder of her mother. So I don't want to say this little girl's name. I know it's already out there in the media. It just personally makes me feel icky, so I'm not going to. But she was found less than 24 hours after this Amber Alert was issued. And this is, I want to give credit where credit is due, this is a story by Julia Moore, published on People.com. And I will read you a bit of this article.

56:42Again, I'm going to quote it, but I'm also removing her name. So it reads, quote, A five-year-old girl in Kentucky has been located after an Amber Alert was issued for her disappearance. Less than 24 hours after Kentucky State Police declared blank as missing, authorities confirmed in a post shared on X, formerly known as Twitter, Monday that she had been located safely. She was with her biological father, Byron Black, 42, who was arrested in connection with the death of her mother, Kelly Black, also 42. And apparently this happened after police were called to conduct a wellness check. So again, just, I mean, awful, awful about her mom.

57:25Fantastic that she was found. And again, it all comes back to these Amber Alerts being so amazing. And also somebody seeing something and saying something. Huge kudos to whoever called in that welfare check. This is what it's all about. But I'm going to keep it short but sweet this week and leave you with that. so thank you I love you and I'll talk to you next time do you ever meet someone and think wow they've really been through it and then realize we all have that's what we're all insane is all about it's a podcast where real people sit down to share their stories that have shaped them the raw unfiltered moments that don't usually make it into everyday conversation there are no scripts no interruptions and no filters just honest storytelling that unfolds naturally From heartbreak and loss to recovery and resilience, every episode is a reminder that even in our darkest moments, we're never really alone.

58:23If you love hearing real stories that make you feel something, stories that connect us all, this is one you'll want to subscribe to. You can listen to We're All Insane wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Sunday.