Cindy Guido

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26:24He explained that he didn't show for the earlier interview because there was a warrant out for his arrest. Ryan shared that back in December 2016, Cindy felt uneasy about her new living situation with Jonas. She said Jonas made inappropriate sexual comments and tried to convince her to have sex with him. So Cindy asked Ryan to come stay with her at the apartment. He ended up sleeping on the couch pretty often. He would sometimes stay there for weeks, then go back to Phoenix and stay with his dad for a few days before coming back again. Ryan told detectives that he saw Cindy and Jonas argue a lot, but he never saw them physically hurting each other.

27:01They argued about things like Jonas turning off the power at night and other roommate issues. According to Ryan, the last time he was at Cindy's apartment was on April 6th, the last day Cindy was seen. He said he left the apartment between noon and 2pm to go to Phoenix for a doctor's appointment the next day. When he left, Cindy was acting depressed, which he said was normal for her. He told detectives that Cindy wasn't happy with where she lived or her health, so she often felt down. But on April 6th, Ryan thought everything was okay. Cindy didn't tell him she was planning to be away for a long time, and she didn't say anything that made him worry about her safety.

27:41He added that it was unusual for Cindy to be gone for this long. And of course, detectives asked Ryan about Michael Castor. He said Michael could be a dangerous person, especially when he was drinking. Ryan says he saw Michael yell at Cindy and throw things at her. He added that Michael acted like a stalker after Cindy broke up with him. He was always trying to contact her and get her to spend time with him. Ryan said that he thought Michael was capable of hurting Cindy. He added that Cindy had once told him that Michael put morphine in her food and tried to make her overdose. In mid-June, detectives finally found Cindy's supposed ex-boyfriend, Andrew, but he said he and Cindy were just friends, and he didn't even know her that well.

28:28He hadn't seen Cindy since late February or early March 2017. This is when she and her dog stayed at his apartment for about three weeks due to issues with her roommate. Andrew said he last talked to Cindy about a week before her surgery was scheduled. He said that she sounded normal. She was nervous that she might not make it through the surgery, but if she did, there would be another surgery a month later. After the date of Cindy's surgery passed, Andrew called to ask how everything went, but he says Cindy's phone wasn't working. He also noticed that Cindy hadn't been active on Facebook, which was unusual because she used that account for work to sell her beauty products.

29:08Andrew added that he was concerned that Cindy left her dog with her roommate Jonas, especially because they had a volatile relationship that sometimes got physical. Andrew said he believed Ryan moved in with Cindy to protect her from Jonas. At this point, it seems like Andrew, Jonas, Ryan, and Michael were all just pointing fingers at each other. Not long after this, Cindy's daughter Lisa connected with detectives and let them know that Michael called her to ask if she could pick up some of Cindy's things, because he and Jonas were going to move out of the apartment at the end of the month. Lisa said that when she went to go pick up her stuff, she got a really odd feeling from Michael and Jonas.

29:51She says both of them were hovering over her, her aunt, and her cousin as they tried to look through Cindy's things. Michael kept telling Lisa that some items were valuable and she should try to sell them, but then also refused to let Lisa take an expensive jacket he bought for Cindy. Lisa also said that Michael was asking a lot of questions about the status of the investigation. In fact, he was so pushy that Lisa's aunt intervened and told Michael to leave Lisa alone. Lisa also mentioned that Michael was kind of joking around the whole time and overall just seemed really inappropriate for the situation.

30:28And good for Lisa, because she took pictures of the apartment to give to detectives, and they found something. They noticed a big pink purse on a shelf in Cindy's room. This purse matched the description of the one Jonas said Cindy took. Then, on April 2nd, detectives were informed that Jonas and Michael moved out of the apartment. They were there the next day to search, and what they found confirmed their worst fears. When walking through Cindy's former bedroom, they found blood and traces of blood all over the room. It was on the closet door and the outside of the bedroom door. A smear stain was located on the doorjamb of the bedroom door, and spatter stains were found on two of the walls.

31:11And right under the doorframe, the carpet was discolored, like it had been cleaned. and in Jonas' former bedroom, detectives found more blood. There were stains on the carpet in one of the bedroom corners as well as the carpet on the inside of the closet. Other areas of the carpet appeared to be discolored, again like they'd been cleaned. There was a spatter stain consistent with cast-off on one wall and just inside the bedroom door. There were additional spatter stains on the inside of the closet and on the back side of the closet sliding door. A transfer stain was found on the same sliding door.

31:50The sinks were also tested for blood, and the bathroom sink came back positive. As they were cutting out some of the carpet to take for testing, they noticed that in some areas, blood had soaked all the way through to the underside of the carpet and onto the padding. But there was one area that really stood out. When the carpet was cut in Jonas' closet, a large oval blood stain about three feet long and one and a half feet wide was found on the bottom of the carpet. The blood continued through the carpet pad and onto the subfloor. Overall, the amount of blood in the apartment told detectives that a traumatic event had occurred.

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33:28We'll see you next time.

33:33In mid-October, Lisa spoke to the East Valley Tribune. She said that she was very hopeful her mother was alive, though she did have her doubts. Lisa didn't think her mom had run away due to being scared about her upcoming surgery. She said Cindy had a, quote, long history of illness and had undergone many other surgeries. She added that her mom had no reason to leave and not tell anyone. But then, at the end of October, not long after this interview, the results from the blood at the apartment came back. And the blood in both bedrooms belonged to Cindy. But just when it seemed like detectives were finally making some progress, they found out that Cindy's roommate, Jonas Oswald, was dead.

34:20Jonas had been in the hospital since October 26th, after suffering a possible overdose. On November 2nd, he became agitated and erratic. He started acting impulsive and yelling out, and it seems like he might have been hearing and seeing things. Jonas struck hospital staff with his IV tower and kicked a security guard in the head. Numerous staff members had to restrain Jonas to the bed, and then, at some point after that, Jonas was found unconscious and not breathing. He was ultimately pronounced dead. A few weeks after Jonas' death, detectives spoke to Michael about Jonas and his possible role in Cindy's disappearance.

35:02Michael said he felt there was only a, quote, 1-2 % chance Jonas was involved. He told detectives that Jonas promised he loved Cindy and did not hurt her. Detectives then asked Michael if he ever saw any of this blood while he was living in the apartment. Michael said no, he didn't notice any evident blood. He admitted to seeing red marks on the wall and the lampshade in Cindy's room, but he assumed they were makeup. Following the interview with Michael, detectives kept trying to get in contact with Ryan. On December 12th, they showed up at his dad's house and found him there. They noticed immediately that Ryan was impaired, and he admitted that he had relapsed after his mother went missing.

35:46They questioned him about what happened on April 6th. He told them that he began the day at his mom's place, but had to go to the doctor later. After leaving home, he spoke to Cindy on the phone and discussed her debit card. He told detectives that Cindy let him use her debit card, but he forgot to return it before he left. He said there was no argument during their phone conversation, and that was the last time he ever spoke to her. Ryan told detectives that he stayed at his dad's house for a few days after his doctor's visit. Later, Jonas called Ryan and said Cindy had packed her stuff and left.

36:22After hearing this, Ryan went back to the apartment. He says he moved out when Michael Castor moved in. A few days passed, and Ryan and his girlfriend went back to the apartment to pick up his belongings. They spent the night there and left the next morning with his things. Ryan explained that he slept in Cindy's bed at the apartment, but didn't notice anything unusual or broken. He also didn't see anything strange on the walls. Everything seemed to be normal, besides she had taken her medication with her. Ryan also mentioned that he talked to Jonas about Cindy leaving. Jonas told Ryan that Cindy seemed okay, and she'd be back in a few days.

37:02Detectives then asked Ryan if he knew that Jonas had passed away. He replied that he didn't. Then, detectives asked Ryan about Jonas' relationship with Cindy. He said Jonas did pursue Cindy romantically, but she had turned him down. Both Cindy and Jonas had told him this. Detectives asked Ryan if he noticed any behavioral issues with Jonas. He said he might have noticed some anger. He said Jonas, quote, would hear voices, and he'd say God or angels were talking to him. But when detectives pressed Ryan about Jonas' anger issues, Ryan said he, quote, never really personally saw his anger too much.

37:43Detectives then told Ryan about the blood found in the apartment, and he again stated that he never saw any blood during his stay. Now, detectives eventually showed Ryan pictures of the bloodstains, and asked if he knew what had caused them. Ryan stated he thought it was possible Cindy was hit with a blunt object or something similar. And outright, detectives asked Ryan if he would tell them about what happened to Cindy. He said he didn't know what happened to her, and reiterated that he was in a different city when Jonas called him and told him that Cindy packed her things and left. They also outright asked Ryan if he had anything to do with removing Cindy's body out of the apartment.

38:24Ryan again denied this, and said he didn't assist in cleaning any blood either. And they keep pressing. They asked if he had any ideas about where Cindy's body might be now, or how Jonas could have taken her body out of the apartment. He responded, quote, I don't know. It blows my mind. The only thing that possibly comes to mind is how he moved Michael in so quickly, and they seemed all buddy-buddy, and that's the only thing that I could even have thought was possible if something had happened to her. Ryan told detectives that he wanted to know what happened to his mom. He even agreed to a polygraph test, but detectives were later unable to get in contact with him to set one up.

39:07Now, about a week after this, detectives go back to Michael Castor. He said that he was aware of Jonas' death since they'd been living together when Jonas apparently got into his girlfriend's pills. Michael told detectives that Jonas was a generally nice person. He says Jonas was a, quote, violent person when he's not on his meds. Michael talked about some of the things that he'd seen in the past, including Jonas throwing and breaking things around the apartment. Michael said that after Cindy disappeared, Jonas invited him to live at the apartment to take care of Cindy's affairs. Michael moved in and scrubbed the apartment, including the walls.

39:47And they ask him, did you see anything wrong with the walls or the flooring? And he says no. When asked if he cleaned Jonas' room, Michael stated, quote, No, I never cleaned it. No, I wouldn't even go in there. He says the only time he went in there was to help move furniture when they moved out. He says he only cleaned Cindy's room, the kitchen, the family room, and the bathroom. Then detectives tell him about the blood found in the apartment. At this point, Michael starts changing his story and says, Now I did find what I believed was some blood spots. And detectives just tell him they found a lot of blood, not just a few spots.

40:29Michael replied, quote, So Jonas killed Cindy. I had an inkling that could have happened. And detectives keep going after Michael. They say that there was still a significant amount of blood on the floor, walls, and the blinds, despite all the cleaning he did. They said now was the time to tell the truth about what he knew about Cindy. But Michael said he had no idea about what happened inside the apartment. and they keep pressing. They say all that blood was confirmed to be Cindy's and Michael says again he doesn't know. What he saw he thought was makeup and as they keep pressing, a little bit more keeps coming out.

41:08They ask him about what he saw when he moved furniture out of Jonas's bedroom and now Michael says he saw a big stain about 18 inches wide. He thought it was maybe urine, but he never got close to the area. Michael says he didn't see any other stains due to how dark the room was. At this point, Michael asks detectives if Cindy has been found. They say no, and they ask him how Cindy could have been removed from the apartment, and Michael just blames it all on Jonas, saying that he had to have done it. Michael begins crying and says that he should have called the detective when he saw the small spots of blood in the apartment.

41:49Detectives explain to Michael that because he cleaned up all this blood and didn't tell anyone, the department could not continue its investigation. And Michael continues to tell them that he had nothing to do with Cindy's disappearance. He loved her. And like Ryan, detectives ask Michael if he'll take a polygraph test, and he agrees. Before the polygraph test began, detectives asked Michael if there was anything he wanted to tell them. Now, he says that when he cleaned the apartment, he scrubbed the floor with hydrogen peroxide. He adds that while cleaning one spot in the living room, it bubbled.

42:25Michael says that he mentioned the spot to Jonas, but decided that maybe Cindy's dog was in heat, and Michael says that he never cleaned the carpet in Cindy's room or Jonas' room. Now, following the conversation, Michael went through the polygraph. He was asked the following questions. Do you know for sure who caused the death of Cindy? Do you know for sure who caused the death of Cindy in 2017? Do you have anything to do with Cindy's death? Michael answered no to all three questions. After the polygraph, Michael was interviewed again. Detectives told him that he had answered deceptively. When asked why the test was showing that he was deceptive, Michael said, quote, maybe because I feel partially responsible for what happened, because she left and put herself in a situation with Jonas, that maybe I'm partially responsible for leaving and moving in with Jonas, and having the events happen that they happened.

43:23I didn't foresee what might have happened to Cindy, because she was fearful for her life. Now Michael says that Cindy previously told him that she was in danger. So detectives ask him, why didn't you mention cleaning the carpet with peroxide until right before the polygraph. And he responded, quote, I just want you to understand, detective, that I had nothing to do with Cindy's death or her disappearance. Detectives asked Michael if Ryan killed Cindy. He said he didn't know. They followed up with a question about if Jonas killed Cindy. He again said he didn't know. They then asked if he killed Cindy, and he said no.

44:04Detectives tell Michael that they know something happened in that apartment, and he kept denying, saying he didn't see any bloodstain evidence in Jonas' bedroom. Michael eventually said that he didn't believe the case would ever be resolved because Jonas is dead. He said he didn't believe they would ever find her. Michael then stood up, and the interview was over. There was little movement in the case following Michael's interview. About a year and a half later, detectives mark Cindy's case as inactive, pending a future witness coming forward or suspect identification.

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45:08Michelle's mother, Lisa McDaniel, has managed to keep her past buried. You said nobody wants to believe there's a monster in their family. You think she's a monster? I don't want to. But I don't know how else you describe somebody who does those things to children. Michelle has lived in the shadow of her family's dark past for decades. but now she's ready to bring it into the light. Neither one of those children were suffering because of a disease. Season six of Nobody Should Believe Me is out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

45:47In April 2022, Cindy had been missing for five years. Lisa spoke to Fox 6 to give an update in the case. She said detectives found enough blood in the apartment to believe Cindy had been murdered. However, without a body, no one was held accountable. But Lisa was still hopeful that someone would come forward with information. Unfortunately, this is pretty much where Cindy's case is today. Detectives were eventually able to get access to Cindy's Facebook account and her phone records, but there was no activity since April 6th, the day she was last seen. Cindy has never been found, and investigators are still searching for the man in the blue polo and khaki pants.

46:30Cindy's family is obviously extremely distraught and still trying to get the word out about her case. I live in Arizona, and I'd never heard of this case before her family reached out to me, which brings me right to our call to action. Please share Cindy's story and her missing person poster with as many people as possible. The more eyes on this case, the better.

46:57As a reminder, Evelyn Lucinda Cindy Guido was last seen on April 6, 2017 in Gilbert, Arizona, near the 200 block of Juniper Avenue. She was 60 years old at the time she went missing. She is white, 5 '4 and 115 pounds. She has brown eyes and brown shoulder-length hair. She sometimes wore blonde extensions. She has a full set of dentures, a burn scar on her left arm, and wears wire-rimmed reading glasses. Anyone with information is asked to contact the Gilbert Police Department at 480-503-6500. But, as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.

47:50Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice media original. This episode contains writing and research by Haley Gray, with research assistance by Anna Luria, and editing assistance by Keith Murray. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show on your podcast player. It's an easy and free way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice.

48:20Thank you.

49:06Welcome to the Secret After Show. The air conditioning is on, the door is open, the dogs have abandoned me, but let's talk about this week's episode. this was a very long time coming. I requested these police records months and months ago after I was contacted by a member of Cindy's family to cover this case. This is a hard one as usual. I think they're all kind of hard ones at this point. I say it every week it feels like, but it just, it was hard to simplify down into kind of who said what because this, you know, obviously is an ongoing investigation. A lot of these interviews were done over, you know, larger spans of time.

49:51And a lot of these statements changed in these interviews. So I really just tried to block it up into like who said what over kind of all their interviews. So I hope that it made sense to you. I tried to make it as simple as possible because it can be so confusing with all these different statements. Now, please share this case. I know I say that every week, but Cindy's case in particular has very little media coverage, which is really surprising to me, given how many, for lack of a better word, shocking elements there are, right? You know, I think it's no secret that true crime coverage in the news and content creation from independent creators, they usually pick up on cases like this.

50:39You know what I mean? You have a woman who goes missing in conflicting statements from people. All of a sudden, her roommate, you know, passes away. I really don't understand how people haven't picked up this case yet, but I really hope that they do. And of course, the hope is always to generate leads and get some answers for these families. Now, in all transparency, as you guys noticed, there was not an episode last week. and that's because midweek I was surprised with the news that the ABC 2020 episode was going to come out and as much as I try to work through those things it instantly dissolved all that peace I've been talking about getting in this after show.

51:24I had so much peace until the moment I saw that this was coming out, and it's because it was shocking. One, there was very little notice, which isn't actually unusual, but two, you know, the last I heard about this program, my father refused to speak. I have not watched 2020. I will not watch 2020 because it's, it just hurts. I don't want to see him speak. I don't want to see his lawyers laughing, like I saw in those clips after they spent so much time disparaging Alyssa's memory, and I know that it's their job. Part of me understands that. Everyone deserves a good defense, and he got it, obviously.

52:07I just wish it didn't include so much victim blaming on Alyssa. You know, I don't think I need to tell you guys, but Alyssa was a child who reported her abuse, and the way she was depicted in court was extremely disturbing. Extremely disturbing and extremely untrue. So it's just, it's a lot of pain on top of pain. I did explain on my Instagram stories that I was invited to be a part of this program, and I declined, along with basically everyone else who ever knew Alyssa. Almost none of us wanted to be involved. I will say that my brother James interviewed under the impression that her father would not be interviewed.

52:49So it's just, like I said, pain on top of pain on top of pain. I have reached out to them with my concerns, at least to the local ABC affiliate who reached out to me, and I had not heard back from ABC itself. So it is what it is. They don't owe me anything, but that's what happened last week, and it just stopped me in my tracks. I had to kind of go into self-preservation mode and just protect whatever piece I had left. But it's been not that long. I'm trying to regather this piece and I can't wait to talk to you next week when I tell you about something very special I have planned for Alyssa at the end of this week.

53:34I don't want to say it out there yet. I don't want to give you guys any hints, but I will let you know when it's all said and done. I'm very excited. It's something I've talked about all throughout the trial. I kept setting these little milestones for myself, or I guess not milestones, but I kept saying to myself, after this trial's over, I'm going to do A, B, and C, and looking forward to those things really kept me going, and now I'm finally doing one of them. So I'm okay. Everybody's okay. I am moving on. It's just a lot of pain that I will work through. That being said, let's get to our segment of hope.

54:13Now, because we did miss a week, this is maybe a little bit older to you guys, and it's very big, so I'm not expecting any of you to have never heard of this, but I want to talk about Danny Masterson being sentenced to 30 years. Now, as always in the segment of hope, these are terrible things that we're talking about that have some type of silver lining. And for me, that's the fact that he was brought on these charges so much later, so far after the fact that they happened. And he got this massive conviction, this 30 years, which to me just sounds insane. I feel like that never ever happens. I could be wrong.

54:53Tell me on social media if you've heard of similar cases. I have not. And of course, I was not one of his victims. I cannot sit here and say that this erases everything for those victims because I'm sure it doesn't. But in my book, you know, this is some type of win. I think that this is really encouraging for all victims out there that so many years later, you can get some form of justice, some form of justice through the legal system, if you will. But that is my segment of hope. I am reading right from bbc.com. Danny Masterson sentenced to 30 years to life for two rapes. I'm sorry, I did not put 30 years to life earlier.

55:34I said 30 years, but it is 30 years to life. Let me see here. Prosecutors argued Masterson, 47, had relied on his status as a prominent Scientologist to avoid accountability. Judge Charlemagne Almedo allowed the victims of his crimes to read impact statements in court ahead of his sentencing. Now, the article does go on to read that this is the maximum penalty allowed, and I'm not going to go into the details of the victims' stories that is for them to tell, not me here, a random person on a podcast, but again, I think that this definitely deserves to me in the segment of hope because there are so many victims out there.

56:18There are so many people that are afraid to come forward and, you know, without making it about me, of course it does make me think of Alyssa. So it's really fantastic to see people believed, to see this make this much headway in court, and I wish these victims nothing but the best. But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.

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