Claudia Lawrence

26:39Salacious stories about George being responsible for, or at least knowing more than he let on about Claudia's disappearance, ran for weeks. This caused so much harm for him and his wife that he eventually quit managing the nags head. Again, this just becomes a huge snowball effect. In July, a man from Selby drunkenly called police to report that he'd found Claudia's body under a bush. This was of course false, and he had to pay court fines for misleading a police inquiry. But of course, while all of this was happening in the media, the real investigation was still ongoing in the background. As summer turned to fall, with no leads bringing answers, police turned their investigation in a new direction, to the island of Cyprus, all the way in the Mediterranean Sea east of Greece.

27:29Cyprus was one of Claudia's favorite vacation spots. She'd gone on her first trip while she was dating Daniel and had fallen in love with it. He told investigators that it became like her second home. And remember that text message Claudia received at 9.12pm that she didn't respond to? It was from her friend Steve Sammons in Cyprus. She'd met Steve in York, at none other than the Nags Head pub. He was a member of her friend group, and she saw him there regularly until he moved to Cyprus. The text from Steve was asking when she planned to return. She'd been on five trips there since her first, the most recent being in October 2008.

28:06She reportedly planned to go back in April. Now, Jen had actually gone with her on one of these vacations, and told investigators that every day they were there, someone at a bar or restaurant offered her a job if she moved there. So investigators formed a new theory. Maybe Claudia decided to escape to Cyprus. It didn't make total sense, because her passport, other identification, as well as her bank cards were all found in her home. And again, there was barely anything missing from her home. Certainly not enough to start a new life in a new country. But still, the North Yorkshire Police pursued the lead.

28:42Multiple officers were sent to Cyprus to conduct interviews with people who Claudia may have interacted with there. Of course, their first step was to interview Steve Sammons, not as a suspect but to get his help in identifying who may have offered Claudia jobs while she was there. He worked as a bartender and was connected within the industry. In a press conference, Galloway stated that one of the people they wanted to speak to in Cyprus was actually in England on March 18th, but nothing came of their interview with this person. Overall, Galloway stated that many of the people in Cyprus were not eager to talk, but from the work they did, they ruled out that Claudia was there.

29:21With really no trace of where Claudia may have gone, investigators went right back to focusing on her love life. In October, Galloway issued a statement asking men who had been involved with Claudia to come forward, and also warned them that if they didn't, to expect a knock at their door. He theorized that many of them were not coming forward for fear of their relationship with Claudia being exposed. He basically promised them that they could be interviewed confidentially if they willingly came forward, but if they maintained their secrecy, they were forgoing that option. Basically, come to us or we're going to expose you.

29:58It's unclear exactly how this worked out for investigators, but another potential league came to light when two different women reported stories of a rusty old white van in the area. The first witness had come forward in June, saying she saw a suspicious white van on Melrose Gate. She said the male driver got out and attempted to talk to her, but she could not provide a physical description of him. A second witness told police that she'd seen a white van parked along Melrose Gate several times in the days before Claudia's disappearance while she was on her morning jogs. She too said that the man once got out of the van and attempted to speak with her, but she continued jogging and did not engage with him.

30:38Although this detail was left out of her interview with police for some reason, this witness reportedly told other sources that she never saw the white van again after the day that Claudia went missing. Galloway released an inquiry for information on a white van, but stated that the two witnesses described different vans. In November, a comment was posted to the Finding Claudia Facebook page, reading, quote, Hi everyone. Just let you be aware that I am okay, and I am safe and sound. Speak to you all soon. Claudia XXX, end quote. Now, Claudia's loved ones were quick to say that this was a hoax, because according to them, Claudia was not social media savvy.

31:21She didn't even own a computer, and never had any social media accounts. And they were right. The comment was traced to a teenage boy in Oxfordshire. He was arrested, then released, and given community service as punishment. As the first holiday season without Claudia passed, there weren't many reports of progress being made in the investigation. In February 2010, police took a step that many felt was long overdue. They inventory the items in Claudia's house for the first time. On February 26, on the eve of Claudia's 36th birthday, a National Day of Awareness was held to bring attention to her case.

32:01This event was just one of the many efforts by Peter and Martin to keep Claudia's name and face in the media. Around this same time, Galloway announced that they had traced a man in the Irish Republic who had at one point been in a relationship with Claudia, but say he had denied it repeatedly until they went to visit him in person and confronted him with evidence. He was cleared of any wrongdoing, but Galloway stated that this had happened multiple times. People had denied being in a relationship with Claudia until provided with overwhelming evidence that one had occurred. Then in March, a potentially crucial piece of information comes to light.

32:39One of Claudia's co-workers comes forward a year after her disappearance to say that he recalls on Tuesday, March 17th, Claudia came into work looking extremely tired. He says he asked her if she was alright, and she told him that the night before she'd gone out with a man until around 5am. Considering she had to be at work at 6, she hadn't gotten any sleep. Police released a statement saying that they wanted to speak to this man. While police were waiting for this man to hopefully come forward, they continued physical searches for Claudia that spring, beginning with an area near the university known as the Out Gang.

33:15This is apparently an open, outdoor space with fields and pathways. People often jog or walk their dogs there. Police used three tracking dogs in this search, but didn't find anything matching Claudia's scent. Around this same time, police got a tip that Claudia attended a house party in 2007 in Ellerton. This resulted in a two-day search of the property, but nothing was found. While it seemed like they were reaching a bit at this point, at least they were trying to find Claudia. But not everyone agreed that this was a good thing. By July 2010, the North Yorkshire Police began facing criticism from the National Policing Improvement Agency for how much time and money they'd spent on Claudia's case, especially because they'd failed to produce this all and lead into where she was, or identify a single credible suspect.

34:05After this, Galloway announced that while the inquiry into Claudia's case was still very much alive, they were having to scale it down significantly due to department resources. Another blow to Claudia's friends and family came in October, when Crimestoppers withdrew their£10 ,000 reward for information. When Peter and Martin asked about it, Crimestoppers told them that police had not requested for it to be renewed. When they asked the police, they blamed it on Crimestoppers. But this created a larger issue, because all the widely circulated flyers for Claudia listed the reward on them, and now they all had to be removed.

34:44These flyers were on police cars and buses, and Peter and Martin had to pull several ad campaigns that featured the reward. Eventually, Crimestoppers did reinstate the reward for a few months, but pulled it again for good in February 2011, saying that they had limited funding and needed to give other cases a chance. And the hits just kept coming. To make matters worse, it was determined that the tip that led them to search the outgang at the university was another hoax. The man who submitted the tip was jailed for 18 months for wasting the police's time and resources. On Claudia's 37th birthday in February 2011, a candlelit vigil was held to raise awareness for her and other missing people in England.

35:30Peter had become very involved with the British charity Missing People and began advocating for other cases too. Kate McCann spoke at the event in support of Peter and Claudia, as well as to honor her missing daughter, Madeline McCann. She said, quote, Our daughters are different ages, and the circumstances are very different, but we share the same pain and fear and hope. It's nice to be able to support each other, because it's one of those things that unless you've been in that situation, it is very difficult to understand. End quote. In his work with missing people, Peter advocated for legislation that made things easier for families of the missing.

36:09He shared that only a few weeks after Claudia's disappearance, he realized how difficult it would be to maintain her house payments and other bills. There was no system in place to allow him to take over her financial affairs because there was no proof that she was deceased. In 2011, Scotland and Ireland both had a presumption of death law in place that allowed for a guardian to become a trustee for that missing person's affairs. No such law existed in England or Wales, and Peter began lobbying Parliament to establish one. The English Ministry of Justice initially responded that this was not a priority, because the cost of developing a proposal for a presumption of death act far outweighed the number of people who would benefit.

36:51The head of missing people, Martin Houghton Brown, responded saying, quote, As it stands, if your house is burgled, you're automatically offered emotional, practical, and legal support. If your child goes missing, you get nothing. End quote. Finally, in late 2011, the government introduced legislation that supported issuing certificates of presumed death. But the battle for the rights of families of the missing was far from over. Peter said in a statement, quote, I was amazed and disgusted to find in my discussions with other families in similar positions that there is no mechanism in this country to enable families to deal with the practical, financial, and legal issues of the missing person.

37:34I realized it within about five weeks of Claudia disappearing. I have had this for over three years, and many hundreds of families have had this horrible experience for far longer. One lady would have had her house repossessed if it were not for her family helping out. End quote. In early 2012, Facebook issued new provisions to prevent trolling on their platform. However, when these regulations went into effect, it reset the member count of a Facebook group dedicated to finding Claudia that had over 22 ,000 members. This was, of course, devastating to Susie and Jen, who had spent nearly three years building a community of people who supported Claudia.

38:15Meanwhile, the investigation seemed to stall, but the police were still putting forth efforts to draw the public's attention to the case. On the third anniversary of her disappearance, they created new posters and attached them to every North Yorkshire police vehicle. In late 2012, a former private investigator reached out to Martin Dales to say that he'd seen a woman in Amsterdam that he swore was Claudia. Now, he didn't try to speak to the woman, but this ignited rumors that Claudia could have been a victim of sex trafficking, though this was never ultimately confirmed. Claudia's case seems to go stagnant for a while, until it heats right back up and fast.

38:57For the first time ever, the North Yorkshire police make not just one, but several arrests in the case. This episode is brought to you by eBay. Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. Find that feeling again on eBay. It's not mindless scrolling, it's a fashion pursuit. And when you score that rare Adidas collab or the Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting, it's a rush. eBay has millions of pre-loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by authenticity guarantee. eBay, things people love.

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40:16In 2014, Detective Superintendent Ray Galloway retired. Detective Superintendent Day May Lynn was then assigned to be the senior investigator on Claudia's case. and this guy was determined to find the culprit. In May 2014, officers searched a home about a mile from Claudia's. Following the search, to everyone's surprise, they actually make an arrest. 59-year-old Michael Snelling was arrested on suspicion of murder. Now, we don't know what was found in the house that led to that arrest, but Snelling was tracked down and taken into custody while visiting a family member in North Shields. He was released from jail on bond the following day.

40:57While Snelling was waiting to find out if he'd be charged with Claudia's murder, Malin's team dug up the cellar of a pub in the Ocombe area of York. Claudia's cell phone data showed that she'd been to this pub a few weeks before her disappearance. Police then arrest the pub's landlord, 46-year-old Paul Harris, on suspicion of perverting the course of justice. He also posted bail shortly after being taken into custody. Harris recalls that he was interviewed in 2009 because he willingly told the police that Claudia visited his pub shortly before her disappearance, and he remembered speaking with her briefly.

41:33He consented to interviews, gave police access to his phone records, and submitted a DNA sample. So five years later, he was confused as to how he was considered perverting the course of justice. When this pub was searched, he said it was one of the hottest days of the year, which caused him to lose significant business. He also said that this was a devastating time for his children, age 15 and 13, because rumors were circulating that their dad killed Claudia. He said, quote, I don't condemn them for bringing me in for questioning at all, but it's the way they've gone about it, end quote. Ultimately, Harris was not charged with any crime, and was left to repair the damages left to his business and reputation.

42:17In November, Michael Snelling was also cleared of suspicion and released from any charges related to Claudia. But Malin's team did not stop here with the arrests. In March 2015, another 59-year-old man who frequented the Nags Head was arrested on suspicion of murder. His name was not released to the public. Following this arrest, a group of three men, all in the building and construction industry, sat around a table at the Nags Head joking that they were placing their bets on which one of them would be arrested next. At this point, a lot of people felt that police were just arresting random patrons of the bar.

42:53But word about this got around to Mei Lin, and he was not laughing at the joke, because all three men were then also arrested on suspicion of murder in April. All four men remained in jail until they were allowed out on bail in September 2015, nearly a full year after their initial arrest in March of 2016. The Crown Prosecution Service announced that there would be no charges filed against the four men due to a lack of evidence. After this, Malin concluded his investigation into Claudia's case. He says that he firmly believes someone close to her was responsible, he just didn't know who. From this point, the case was placed in a reactive phase, meaning further investigation would only take place if a new lead came to light.

43:40Meanwhile, Peter Lawrence was still working hard to advocate, not only for Claudia, but for rights of missing people's families in the UK. After the Presumption of Death Act was passed, Peter was determined to have a guardianship program established. This would allow the families of those presumed to be dead to appoint a guardian to handle the missing person's financial and legal matters. It would also legally allow payment to stop for services such as utilities and mortgages. All of this was outlined in the Guardianship Missing Persons Act 2017, informally known as Claudia's Law. Although the act was presented in 2017, it didn't pass until July 31, 2019.

44:22By the time Claudia's Law passed, Peter was well recognized by the British government. In 2018, he was awarded the status of OBE, meaning Officer of the Order of the British Empire, and the Queen's Birthday Honors. In 2021, leadership on the case changed hands again when Detective Superintendent Wayne Fox took over the case. The most recent action taken to search for Claudia by law enforcement was in 2021, when they searched the Sandhut and Gravel Pits. This is a fishing area about 8 miles outside of York. A small fishing link was drained, and a fingertip search was conducted. But unfortunately, like the times before, it just didn't result in any closure for Claudia's family.

45:05So what happened to Claudia Lawrence? When Claudia's car was searched, police found a cigarette butt in the vehicle despite Claudia not being a smoker. This led many to question the supposed left-hand smoker on the bridge the day that she went missing. However, multiple rounds of testing on the cigarette didn't result in any matches. Fingerprints from her car were also tested multiple times without a match. The same with DNA from her home. And what about the man seen outside of Claudia's home that morning? Well, police now believe the man seen on CCTV could be 57-year-old landlord Richard Cartwright.

45:44He owned property in the area. According to his friends, he often woke up early and went for walks around his properties to check them. And his appearance on camera was not indicative of anything sinister. Cartwright, however, died of natural causes on April 9th, 2009, just a few weeks after Claudia was last seen. While police do not suspect that he was involved, they can't formally rule him out without being interviewed. As for the other two men, including the one who supposedly turned the handle to her front door, they were never located, or if they were, that information was not released to the public.

46:19The same goes for the rusty white van, and the man Claudia supposedly stayed out with all night two days before she went missing. Now, there are two theories that I haven't discussed yet. The first has been rumored as long as Claudia's been missing. At the time of her disappearance, the Ron Cook Hub was being built on the University of York campus, and the construction site was active when Claudia went missing, because it was so close to her home and her walk to work, as well as rumors that she'd been on dates with men in construction, it's been long theorized that she's under the building. I wasn't able to find any reporting that confirms or deny if any kind of sonar search has been done of the ground beneath the facility.

47:02So for now, the theory just sits. The next theory is that Claudia was the victim of a potential serial killer, Christopher Halliwell. He's a taxi driver who was convicted of the 2011 murder of Sion O. Callahan, who he abducted outside a club in Swindon. Sion, unfortunately, wasn't his only victim. In fact, while being interviewed in relation to the case, he confessed to the 2003 murder of Becky Godden Edwards, who was 20 at the time of her death and also taken from a Swindon nightclub. Hallowell even told investigators where Becky was buried, and they found her remains there. However, there was controversy surrounding this confession, because the lead investigator on the case, Steve Fulcher, had tracked Hallowell down and interviewed him without his lawyer being present.

47:50Initially, he was not charged for Becky's murder because his confession was deemed inadmissible. However, after being found guilty of killing Sian, a judge ruled that his confession in Becky's case was admissible, and he stood trial for her murder in 2016 where he was found guilty. You may be wondering what any of this has to do with Claudia's case. These women were taken from clubs in Swindon, and as far as investigators knew, Claudia hadn't visited the area prior to her disappearance. But there was one detail that investigator Steve Fulcher couldn't ignore. Sion was murdered on March 19, 2011, exactly two years to the day since Claudia's disappearance.

48:34The thing is, this date is significant to Hallowell, because in the 1980s, his girlfriend had broken up with him on that day, March 19th. Now, of course, this could all be a coincidence, but it's worth noting that the theory was furthered by a shocking discovery police made about Hallowell when they found Sion's remains. He apparently had a collection of over 30 articles of women's clothing and accessories. Police called it a trophy store. In this collection, they found Becky's cardigan and Sian's high-heeled boot, leading investigators to believe that Sian and Becky were far from his only victims.

49:13In 2017, the Wiltshire Police, who preside over Swindon, released a statement saying that they'd been working with the North Yorkshire Police and that neither agency believed that Hallowell was connected to Claudia. But one person who strongly believes that he may be involved is Claudia's mother Joan. She told the Mirror, quote,

49:50Now, Joan was shown pictures of the articles of women's clothing and accessories that Hallowell had, and she couldn't identify any of them as Claudia's. But she says she only saw photos, not the actual items, and added that the photos were old and messy, so she couldn't be sure. Joan shared in an interview that when she continued to press the North Yorkshire police for answers about Hallowell, an officer told her that she could always go visit him in prison and ask herself. In 2021, former police intelligence officer Chris Clark and true crime writer Beth Truman released a book called The New Millennium Serial Killer, in which they try to link Hallowell to 27 different murders, including Claudia's.

50:33No matter what theory you subscribe to, in the end, police still have not declared any formal suspects nearly 15 years later, and Claudia remains missing. Peter Lawrence passed away on February 11, 2021. Peter's best friend and the man who fought so hard for over a decade to keep Claudia's name and face in the spotlight, Martin Dales, passed away in May 2022. The website dedicated to finding Claudia that Peter and Martin started in 2009 now bears a message on its homepage reading, quote, Following the death of both Claudia's father Peter and his friend Martin Dales, this website will close in mid-2024.

51:15Thank you for your interest, and let's hope that one day this mystery will be resolved, end quote. This just breaks my heart and is a huge reason why I decided to cover Claudia's case. Peter devoted his life to finding his daughter and died without knowing what happened to her. But it's not too late. Joan is out there still doing interviews about Claudia, and she says that she refuses to give up on finding her, because to her, that would be giving up on life itself. She said, quote, You have to keep going. If I stay in bed all day looking at four walls, what good will that do? I will not give up hope.

51:56One day I will find out what happened to my daughter. End quote. She's right. It's not too late to bring Joan and all those who loved Claudia answers. Which brings me right to our call to action. Of course, if you know anything about the disappearance of Claudia Lawrence, please contact the North Yorkshire Police, and please share this case. The power of a share can move mountains in these cases, and all it takes is for one person to see Claudia's picture and remember something they may have forgotten. There is always hope.

52:33As a reminder, Claudia Lawrence was last seen in York, England on March 18, 2009. She is white with brown hair and brown eyes and is 5 feet 6 inches tall. At the time of her disappearance, she was described as having a slim build and was last seen wearing a white t-shirt, blue jeans, and trainers. If you have any information about Claudia Lawrence and are in the UK, call 101 for the North Yorkshire Police Non-Emergency Line. If you're calling from abroad, dial 44-1904-933-043. But, as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.

53:22Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice media original. This episode contains writing and research by Brooke Haynes. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show on your podcast player. It's an easy and free way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice. For even more content, or if you just want to support the show, you can subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com slash voicesforjustice.

54:30you

54:39Thank you.

55:01Thank you.

55:38Welcome to the Secret After Show. Our emotional support dogs are in the room, and let's talk about Claudia's case. I think it's hard to say what happened to Claudia, but I think it's really clear that we know that the irresponsible media led to a lot of crap in this case. I think it really led to the public not taking her case seriously, in addition to, of course, all the victim blaming, which, ooh, really got me in this episode, especially like, because they just pretend as if one person having an affair, there's only one person to blame, right? Versus, like I said, it takes two to tango. Now, I'm not saying that, you know, engaging in relationships with people who are already taken is correct.

56:23I'm just saying if that did happen, if that's true about Claudia, it's not entirely her fault. And also, never in any craziest sense of leaping to a conclusion would that lead to her deserving whatever may have happened to her. And I will always go back to this, too, because people are always going to judge, right? I mean, that's just life. People will always judge these victims as much as I wish that they didn't. But it goes back to also depleting police resources. They have to go back and correct this misinformation. They have to discuss these cruel hoaxes, like that teenager claiming to be Claudia on Facebook.

57:04I mean, even taking the time to have to charge these people is ridiculous, and resources did come up in this case. They were scaled back because people felt like they were spending too much money on Claudia's case, which is a different subject altogether that I'm not going to get into in this after show, but I just want to say that media speculation, when it gets insanely out of hand like it did in this case, has a huge ripple effect.

57:39And of course, I can't help but talk about how I got emotional at the end. It's really hard to tell these stories. One, in the first place, full stop right there, it's hard to tell these stories, stories, but two, to tell these stories when you're talking about these people who work so hard to try to find their person, or even if it's not their person, they just work so hard to try to find some type of conclusion, and then they don't. And oof, the website coming to a close. I mean, that's why I did it. That's why I did it. Please share Claudia's case because I don't really know where it goes from here.

58:18On to what is happening with me, not a lot, not a lot, which is nice. I've been, my voice is obviously going out, oh my gosh, again. But I've been focusing on self-care, especially after talking to my dad. Other than that, I will say that I have a new episode of Talking to Death that is out. I interviewed with Payne Lindsey, and that was a really interesting conversation. And like I told him, I was excited to showcase more of my personality. I feel like outside of this secret segment that we don't talk about, I get kind of seen as this like robot for justice, which is fine. I don't think it's like the worst public perception to have or whatever.

59:04But I know that people enjoy, or at least they tell me they do, they enjoy getting to see a bit of my personality. So I was excited to do that. and I think it showcased that. So go check out Talking to Death. I just did an interview, and it was pretty cool. Moving right along to our segment of hope. Now, I had to pause because I had like the worst coughing fit. So now my voice is even worse than before. But we're going to make it through this. We're going to make it through this after show. So for this segment of hope, it is older. It's from 2022. But I just found it on TikTok. It was just like popped up on my for you page at like 2am or whatever.

59:46But essentially, Paisley Schultes was kidnapped at age 4 from her parents' home near Ithaca, New York in July 2019. Now, her biological parents, but non-custodial parents, Kimberly Cooper and Kirk Schultes Jr., were the primary suspects. But after searching their homes several times, nothing was found. My voice is really going on, I'm sorry, guys. But then around Valentine's Day 2022, police get a tip that Paisley is alive and in her paternal grandparent's house. So, I'm sorry, paternal grandfather's house. So they do another search. This time, one of the officers notices something like really strange about one of the basement steps.

1:00:31So he begins investigating with his flashlight. And between the steps, he saw what he thought was a blanket. So they just start prying apart these steps, and then they see a set of little feet. They find Paisley alive, along with her biological mother, under the stairs. Now, luckily, Paisley was in good health, and she was released to her legal guardian and her older sister. But her mother, Kimberly Cooper, Kirk Schultes Jr., and Kirk Schultes Sr. were all charged. The two men were charged with felony custodial interference and endangering the welfare of a child. Her mom, Kimberly Cooper, was charged with custodial interference in the second degree and endangering the welfare of a child.

1:01:17She also had an outstanding warrant, apparently out of Ulster County Family Court. Now, apparently just a few days after getting out of custody for this crime, Kirk Jr. was arrested for a string of burglaries in his area. So I think it's safe to say that it's a good thing that Paisley is safe, healthy, home with her sister, and away from these parents, which is why it makes this segment of hope. Also, because it came from a tip. Somebody called in a tip, and you guys, this is why I always have these calls to action. You see something, you say something, and it may just result in a four, now a six-year-old, I guess, maybe, I guess, actually now eight-year-old since it was about two years ago, but coming home safe.

1:02:05This is what it's all about. But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here, wishing you a very happy half-off holiday, because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50 % off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium, unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy.

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