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Voices for Justice: Episode Summary - Courtney Holden
Podcast Overview Title: Voices for Justice Host: Sarah Turney Description: A true crime podcast that highlights the stories of victims and ends with a call to action.
Episode Highlights Episode Title: Courtney Holden Episode Description: The episode dives into the disturbing case of 27-year-old Courtney Holden, who went missing for nearly two years. The investigation reveals significant inconsistencies in the stories of her adoptive family, leading to a complex web of potential lies and abuse.
Key Concepts and Discussions
Context of the Case
- Initial Welfare Check: In October 2019, Detective Randy Lesser from the Spokane Police Department is assigned to a welfare check for Courtney Holden, initiated by concerned parties who hadn't seen her in over a year.
- Family Statements: Courtney’s adoptive mother (Judy) and brother (Joshua) claim she left voluntarily with her son, but inconsistencies in their statements raise suspicion.
Investigation Developments
- Initial Police Interaction:
- Joshua and Judy provide vague accounts of Courtney’s alleged departure.
- Police are denied access to search the home for further evidence.
- Evidence Found:
- On a follow-up visit, Courtney’s room is found nearly empty, raising further concerns.
- Neighbors report Courtney was being controlled and isolated by Joshua.
Courtney’s Background
- Adoption and Family Dynamics: Courtney was adopted by Judy Holden and potentially her ex-husband. Her relationship with her adoptive family becomes critical as the narrative unfolds.
- Court Filings: Past legal issues between Courtney and her son’s biological father, including a restraining order, suggest a troubled family history.
Allegations of Abuse
- Joshua Holden's Criminal History: Joshua has a troubling past involving allegations of rape, domestic violence, and other crimes.
- Neighbors' Observations: Neighbors witness signs of control and abuse, noting Courtney was often heard crying for help and was forbidden from interacting with the outside world.
The Disappearance
- Last Known Sightings: The last confirmed sighting of Courtney occurs when she attempts to leave home but is forcibly brought back inside by Joshua.
- Financial Activity Post-Disappearance: Following her disappearance, Courtney’s bank accounts show withdrawals and usage of her EBT card, hinting at possible identity theft by her family.
Police Actions and Legal Proceedings
- Search Warrant Execution: Police eventually return with a warrant but find the family has fled, leading to arrests related to identity theft and custodial interference.
- Delay in Media Attention: Despite the alarming circumstances, there were no immediate media appeals for Courtney or her son.
Current Status
- Ongoing Investigation: As of now, Courtney’s case remains classified as missing, with police expressing beliefs that she may have been murdered. The public is urged to share information and help raise awareness.
- Community Impact: Spokane County is noted for having a high rate of domestic violence, which correlates with many homicide cases in the area.
Call to Action
- Public Engagement: Listeners are encouraged to share Courtney's story and help keep her case alive in public discourse. Information can be reported to Crime Check at (509) 456-2233.
Closing Thoughts The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the ongoing struggles faced by individuals in abusive situations and the vital role of community awareness and engagement in seeking justice for victims. The tragic case of Courtney Holden highlights the need for vigilance and action in missing persons cases, especially those involving domestic violence.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
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1:57If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, you can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline 24-7 at 800-799-7233. There is help. Voices for Justice is a podcast that uses adult language and discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics, including violence, abuse, and murder. This podcast may not be appropriate for younger audiences. All parties are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Some names have been changed or omitted per their request or for safety purposes. Listener discretion is advised. My name is Sarah Turney, and this is Voices for Justice.
2:45Today, I'm discussing the case of Courtney Holden. Today's case, Courtney's story, is one that when I heard the details of, instantly outraged me. It feels like the police know what happened, her neighbors, her friends, family, and even her ex feel like they know what happened to her. Investigators just haven't been able to find whatever they need to bring charges to those responsible, and they've turned to the public for help. This is the case of Courtney Holden. When Detective Randy Lesser from the Spokane Police Department is assigned a welfare check turned missing person case in the fall of 2019, he has a lot to work with from day one.
3:23In early October, his department began getting calls expressing concern for a 27-year-old Spokane resident named Courtney Holden, and her 7-year-old son. According to reporting by Taylor Graham for KXLY News, on October 5th, they get a call from a woman Courtney's son's father was dating, Autumn Schatz. She says she's worried about Courtney and hasn't seen her or her son in about a year and a half. The next day on October 6th, the father of Courtney's son, Michael Dowd, calls. He says he hasn't seen Courtney or their son in two years. He explains that he'd been working through substance abuse issues and was actively improving his life in hopes of reconnecting with his son, who he thinks may be with Courtney's adoptive mother and brother, Judy and Joshua Holden.
4:10So, on October 8th, officers with the Spokane PD arrive at the Holden residence. They're met at the door by 40-year-old Joshua Holden and his mother, 74-year-old Judy Holden. Joshua tells police that Courtney took her son and ran away with her boyfriend. Judy chimes in and says that they were just here a few days ago, in fact, saying Courtney left on foot with her son. But then their stories begin to change a little. First, it was Courtney's boyfriend, then her fiancé, but they don't know his name. Just that he's a long-distance trucker, so it's likely Courtney will be gone for a while. but they'll make sure that Courtney gives them a call.
4:47So officers ask if they can have Courtney's number to clear this whole thing up. Now, Judy agrees, but all this is happening at the front door, so after this, she closes it behind her, deadbolts it, then grabs a phone number for them. At this point, officers are obviously extremely curious about what's going on, and ask to see Courtney's room, but Judy and Joshua refuse them entry to the home. Later that day, Spokane's non-emergency crime reporting hotline, Crime Check, receives a call from a woman claiming to be Courtney Holden. She says she's alive and well. The Spokane PD receive a similar call as well.
5:25But for some reason, this woman is unwilling to meet with them in person. So this is the case that Detective Randy Lesser has been given. He and other officers attempt to speak with the Holdens a few times after this, hoping to just gather more information about Courtney and her son and where they might be. But it was pretty clear that they weren't interested in talking, or concerned about Courtney or her son. On one visit to the house, Joshua says that he can't talk right now because he's busy taking care of a sick cat. He also reiterates to them that everything was clearly fine because Courtney had called them.
5:59But this department is persistent, and finally on October 10th, Judy agrees to let police look in Courtney's room. They report that the house was extremely cluttered and messy, and Judy is visibly nervous. When they enter Courtney's room, they're stunned to find it basically empty. Her belongings were gone, and her bed was completely stripped bare. Detective Lesser said it was clear that no one had lived in this room for quite some time. But they're already in the house, so they want to push it just a little bit further. They start looking around. They ask if they can see Courtney's son's room.
6:35After all, he is technically missing too. But Judy shuts them down and says absolutely not. Now, during all of this, Judy has had her eye on all the officers inside of her home. But when Judy sees that one officer has somehow gone into a room by themselves with the door closed, she freaks and tells them all to get out of her house right now. It was a very short visit. No physical evidence was gathered. but Detective Lesser knew that there was obviously something very weird going on. Over the next few weeks, he and his team begin conducting interviews trying to piece together not only what happened to Courtney and her son but who Courtney Holden is which is also kind of a mystery in itself and what he finds during these interviews is disturbing to say the least.
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8:43Michelle's mother Lisa McDaniel has managed to keep her past buried. You said nobody wants to believe there's a monster in their family. you think she's a monster. I don't want to. But I don't know how else you describe somebody who does those things to children. Michelle has lived in the shadow of her family's dark past for decades. But now, she's ready to bring it into the light. Neither one of those children were suffering because of a disease. Season 6 of Nobody Should Believe Me is out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
9:22Unfortunately, we don't know a lot about Courtney's childhood. At some point, very early on, it seemed she was adopted by Judy Holden and possibly her ex-husband. Now, ICWA was something I was very curious about in this case, because Courtney is Native American, though her tribe affiliation is unknown. I've talked about ICWA in the past. It stands for the Indian Child Welfare Act, and was put in place in 1978 to protect Native children in foster care or up for adoption from abuse, and to help preserve their culture by ensuring an effort is made to place Native children with Native families. The thing is, we don't know if the Holdens are Native American.
10:00We just know that Courtney is. So this is a huge question mark here. Now, Joshua is about 12 years older than Courtney, so it seems reasonable to believe that they likely spent some time together growing up. At some point, he moves out. Courtney meets and eventually has a son with Michael Dowd in 2012. This sours somewhere along the way because in October 2013, a petition for a parenting order is filed with the court. In my research, I was able to find basically a summary of these court proceedings, and it's not extremely detailed. But during this process, a temporary restraining order is put in place against one of the parties.
10:39So things are obviously not great. And in the end, Courtney gets full custody of her son. Not long after, in 2014, Judy Holden gets a divorce and Joshua moves back in. At this time, he installs an extensive video surveillance system on the home. He also puts up a ton of those signs that say, Smile, you're on camera, in front of the home. So I'm not sure if Judy maybe went through a really bad divorce and this was for protection at first, but it becomes clear that these cameras would later be used to monitor Courtney. While I don't think anyone would call Judy a passive player in all of this, Joshua moving back in seems to be when Courtney began to become isolated from the outside world.
11:19So investigators begin to look into Joshua's past, and they find a very lengthy and disturbing criminal history. In 2003, he was a suspect in a rape case. In 2005, he was charged with the rape of a different woman, who reported to police that when she tried to escape, Joshua told her, quote, I'm not done with you yet, end quote. These charges were eventually dropped when the victim stopped cooperating. He has also been arrested on charges of burglary, unlawful imprisonment, and domestic violence. This history paired with the statements from those who knew Courtney and her son is downright terrifying.
11:59Neighbor Barbara Piller said, quote, it wasn't happy there. I would see Courtney come out in the evening. She'd be out in the yard doing chores. They were not allowed out in the daytime, end quote. Now, Barbara is one of the only names we have in this case. Most of the statements from neighbors, they're just called that, neighbors, so you'll have to bear with me here. Other neighbors describe Joshua as dangerous, violent, and unpredictable. Some say that Judy cowered in his presence, and at least one neighbor reported hearing Joshua constantly screaming at Courtney and being extremely overbearing with her son.
12:35In fact, Courtney's son was reportedly instructed to call Judy mom, Joshua dad, and Courtney by her first name, or possibly the name Cindy. Because apparently, Courtney was made to do so many chores around the house that Joshua and Judy called her Cindy, short for Cinderella. Can you feel the outrage? But it only gets worse. Neighbors reported that Courtney's son would often go try to play outside like a normal kid, but would be met with Joshua screaming for him to get back inside. And Courtney was completely isolated from the outside world. She had no car and no cell phone. So whatever phone number the Holdens gave to police was not hers.
13:17Despite this, Courtney did manage to speak to some neighbors. From the pictures I've seen in the home, it looks like your typical suburban neighborhood where everybody is really like crammed together. I live in a neighborhood just like that. So people heard and saw a lot. For a while, Courtney was able to speak with the neighbor behind them in the backyard over the fence, but pretty quickly she was banned from speaking with them by Joshua and Judy. Courtney grew close to another neighbor who she would call in the middle of the night when everyone else was asleep to vent. According to this neighbor, Courtney would call crying and discuss how Joshua abused her and how scared she was.
13:53This neighbor encouraged Courtney to take her son and leave, but Courtney said she couldn't because of the cameras. Courtney also spoke to someone on Facebook nearly every single day until approximately January 2018. Her last message to this person was, quote, I gotta go, I gotta go, Josh is coming, end quote. Pretty much everyone tells a similar story. Courtney was screaming to the world about being abused by Joshua. Courtney's biological brother reports last seen Courtney sometime in 2018 with a black eye. In fact, investigators quickly realized that no one has seen Courtney since 2018. She stopped picking up a monthly prescription in July 2018, and it seems that August was the last reported sighting of her.
14:37And it is terrifying. They report seeing Courtney walking out of the front door of her home with a large duffel bag. Judy shouts for her to get back in the house. Courtney says, no, I'm not staying here anymore. And then Joshua, who is over six feet tall and weighs about 300 pounds comes out of the house. He picks up Courtney and physically forces her back into the home. This is the last sighting of her. It's absolutely chilling. Neighbors would later report that a few days after this, Joshua spent two nights building a swing set in the backyard. It's not known if he poured concrete for this project, which isn't uncommon when placing a swing set.
15:20Neighbors say that they tried to check up on Courtney. They'd go to the house and be told that she wasn't there. She ran away with a boyfriend, it was her fiancé. Sometimes they even said that she was there but couldn't come to the door. Now, as all these interviews are being conducted, they're gathering all this information, they start getting some news about the day that they performed the welfare check and checked Courtney's room. So we are flash-forwarding back to October 2019. On the day of the welfare check,$600 was withdrawn from Courtney's bank account, and Judy and Joshua use Courtney's EBT card to purchase groceries.
15:54When investigators came back two days later and searched Courtney's room, neighbors would later report seeing Joshua, Judy, Courtney's adoptive sister, and a child leaving the home in a white van. Now, Detective Lester is all over this. Obviously, something has happened here, and by October 24th, he is back at the Holden residence with a search warrant. But Judy, Joshua, their six pets, and the entire DVR system for the video surveillance were gone. This episode is brought to you by eBay. Before all the algorithm-fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. Find that feeling again on eBay.
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16:54When investigators search the Holden residence, 82 items of evidence are discovered. Police aren't telling us much, but here's what they and court documents have revealed. Multiple ID cards were found along with computers, 18 cell phones, handwritten, quote, blackmail notes, end quote, and a journal that belonged to Courtney. So investigators get to work hunting down Judy and Joshua, but their phones are deactivated. However, Judy and Joshua aren't really that great at running, if that was their intention, which most people seem to believe that it was, because police find that on that very same day that their phones were deactivated, the pair got new phones with Texas area codes.
17:37So they start looking at Texas. But as investigators are trying to locate Judy and Joshua, they get a call from a neighbor saying that there's a man in the front yard of the Holden residence. So police race over there, thinking that maybe they'll find Joshua or Judy back at the house. But instead, they find Courtney's adoptive sister's husband. Like I said, there are virtually no names in this case, so stick with me. He's in the front yard when police approach asking about Courtney and her son. He tells them that he and his wife are there to check on the house for Judy and Joshua. He also tells them that they have Courtney's son.
18:13But a few minutes later, it seems that his wife sees that the police are there and talking to him, so she marches right outside. She says she hasn't seen Courtney in two years, but she knows that she has her son, not Joshua and Judy. So at this point, police are like, hey, okay, so how can we contact your mom and brother? We can't seem to get a hold of them. And she says, well, I don't know. I don't have contact information for them. Last I heard, they were on a road trip to celebrate Judy's retirement. I mean, obviously, nothing is adding up here. And they quickly discover another extremely disturbing piece of information.
18:51Through speaking with more family members, including Courtney's other adoptive sister, not the one at the house with her husband, so a different daughter of Judy's, this woman admits that she made the calls to police claiming to be Courtney. When asked why she would do something like that, she doesn't give an answer. I warned you that this is a frustrating case, and it only gets worse. They learn that Judy and Joshua have been taking money from Courtney's bank account and using her EBT card for over a year. They actually find video of Joshua, Judy, and a small child at the grocery store using the card.
19:29They of course believe that the child is Courtney's son, and it's clear that he's been with Judy and Joshua well past Courtney going missing. Now, one thing that I want to address, because I feel like I just can't gloss this over, is that not at any point in this case does it seem that Courtney's son is considered to be a missing child. Like, at all, ever. There were no calls to the media to help find him. No Amber Alert that I could find. I can only assume that's because police knew he was with Judy and Joshua. I don't know, this is another question mark in just an area of this case that I felt was pretty confusing.
20:06But wouldn't you know it, police follow the trail down to Texas, and on December 16th, 2019, they find Judy, Joshua, and Courtney's son in Plano, staying at Judy's daughter's home, the one who told police that she didn't have a way to contact her mom. Two days later, Judy and Joshua are arrested, but only on the charges of identity theft for using Courtney's accounts and second-degree custodial interference domestic violence for keeping her son. Joshua is additionally charged with criminal mischief, and at this point, Joshua and Judy stop talking to police altogether. Michael Dowd does travel to Texas and take custody of his son, whose condition is unknown.
20:49In time, investigators learn that Joshua and Judy went from Spokane, Washington, to an RV park in Oklahoma, where they seem to have been trying to lay low for a while. They search Judy's vehicle and the trailer they were staying in, but nothing is found related to Courtney. Now, this is really when Courtney's case begins to heat up a little bit in the media. While she hasn't gotten a ton of media attention, the arrest at least sparks some. And through that, a man named Jensen Tyler comes forward. And he has a lot to say about the Holdens. He and his brother were fostered by Judy Holden when they were very young.
21:22Basically, he says that he lived in the house from his first memory until he turned 12. He says that at first, it seemed like the Holdens were taking in foster kids just for extra cash. He saw a lot of kids come and go over the years. But at some point, it turned into outright abuse. And he says that most of it came from Joshua. In an interview with local KHQ News, he said, quote, It was like my brother was a dog, and just there for Joshua to beat up. End quote. He explains that physical and mental abuse were their everyday lives in the Holden home, and his brother eventually stabbed one of the Holdens.
21:59He doesn't clarify which one, but says they were later able to escape the home with the help of their biological sisters. After this, he kept in touch with Courtney for a while, who he says became Joshua's new target for abuse. He added that he has no doubt that the Holdens killed Courtney. Of course, while all of this is happening, the justice system's slow wheels are turning in Joshua and Judy's cases. It was a pretty lengthy legal process, because they were fighting extradition from Texas back to Washington. They were also released from custody due to the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, and both managed to kind of stay out of custody due to a variety of health concerns.
22:38Now, eventually Judy and Joshua retain legal representation, and this lawyer speaks to the media with his full chest, saying that Courtney left her son with them, and they've basically done nothing wrong. But Detective Lesser combats this in the media, saying that there is no evidence that Courtney is alive. He adds that he's taking it pretty easy on this family. They aren't pressing any charges against Judy's daughter for falsely calling in as Courtney, or another relative for speaking to Joshua while he was in custody, and agreeing to hide items from the police for him. Eventually, both parties enter guilty pleas for their charges.
23:15Judy is out on time served, and Joshua is given 135 days in jail for each count, with credit for time served. By mid-2021, they were both free. Searches related to this case, including the use of cadaver dogs at the Holden residence in Washington and Texas, came up empty, and the DVR system containing videos from their surveillance system was never recovered. By April 2021, police were back in the media pleading for help in sharing Courtney's case, now calling it cold. Her case is currently classified as a missing persons case, though police have been quite outspoken about their belief that Courtney was murdered.
23:56This is obviously one of those cases that hits home for me. There's no denying it. There's virtually no physical evidence, but a pile of circumstantial with nearly every person who knew Courtney saying that she would never leave her son, and was most likely murdered. Most of those close to Judy and Joshua who aren't saying that have been caught lying one way or another, or at worst, literally caught impersonating Courtney saying she was alive and well. We don't know what happened to Courtney, but I think on top of all the immense circumstantial evidence, it's worth noting that Spokane County has the highest rate of domestic violence in the state of Washington, at nearly double the state average.
24:38And according to law enforcement, the majority of homicide cases they encounter are related to domestic violence. Again, it's frustrating. But according to statements from Michael Dowd and his girlfriend Autumn, Courtney's son is doing well, but Autumn says that she knows the day will come that he wants justice for his mom. Aside from Courtney, out of everyone in this story, her son deserves answers, good or bad. I can tell you from experience that the not knowing is one of the worst parts of having a missing loved one. Wondering if they left you, if there was something you could have done to prevent that.
25:17He deserves to know what happened to his mom, and the answers are out there. Which brings me right to our call to action. Please share Courtney's story. And I know that I ask this of you every single week, but sometimes we get lucky and these cases are picked up by more creators and more news outlets. We get enough people talking, enough eyes on the case to create the pressure needed for someone to come forward with information or just crack. This is when we see cases solved. There is always hope.
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26:19at 509-456-2233. But, as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time. Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice media original. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show in your podcast player. It's an easy and free way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice. And for even more content, or if you just want to support the show, you can subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com slash voices for justice.
27:15Thank you.
27:46Welcome to the Secret After Show. The door is open, our emotional support puppies are in, let's talk about the case. Obviously, this is, I mean, I feel like I say this all the time, they're all heartbreaking. They're all heartbreaking, they're all so sad. There is just so little info on this case and so many holes. I feel like I had like three names in this entire script. It was like the neighbor, a friend, an acquaintance, but that's just sometimes how it goes. And honestly, this case reminded me so much of the Margarita Sandoval case that I covered out of Norman, Oklahoma. If you guys remember that, she was in the care of her brother and his wife.
28:30They were basically stealing her checks long after they murdered her. At some point, I believe it was the house owner's daughter that goes to the basement and sees a box, and Margarita was inside. The owner of the house, her dad, tells police that, yeah, it was Octavio Sanchez that placed her there, Margarita's brother. Now, I also have to talk about how her son being missing was handled. and basically I just want to know if you guys have seen something similar in true crime when I was researching this that kind of blew me away and I came to the conclusion that I had to be missing something they had to have known early on that um that kid was with them or at least I have to hope so I have to hope that they didn't take weeks and weeks and weeks of knowing that this kid was missing um to not do anything so I don't know have you guys seen something like that in true crime, let me know on social media.
29:35On to what's going on with me. Your guys' cries for a popcorn update have been heard. I've gotten some messages. You guys are so freaking sweet. I love you. He loves you. Unfortunately, there's nothing new to report. He's on his liver pills. He has not been tested again. I will say that this all came about because he was getting his senior wellness check, which was basically like a more comprehensive exam than what they wanted to do in order to get his dental done. So Popcorn is a small, white, sometimes crusty dog who has bad teeth. It just is what it is. I went through the same thing with Marley.
30:13He had to have his dental done a few years ago where he lost quite a few teeth, my poor dude. So yeah, so Popcorn is going through the same thing. They saw the elevated levels. They were worried, but we don't know where that's at now. And he has his dental the day after this episode airs, so please send him all the love, all the healing vibes, just like he sends to us every single week. I will say also that if anyone, this is the saga that never ends in my life. The saga of my floor, of having half of a kitchen floor. It is going to come to an end, you guys. I have finally found someone to do the work.
30:54I just need to pick out the finish, which is so hard for me. I am such a true Libra in that I will sit there and weigh the pros and cons on these colors forever, but I have made a commitment to myself to pick a floor by the end of the month and get this thing done. Because I deserve a full kitchen floor. I will say that with my full chest. and really you know a lot of what's going on with me when I'm not in true crime is I'm trying to make my house a better space for myself um I talked about this a little bit on TikTok if you guys don't follow me over there I tend to post some pretty personal stuff if you are so interested for whatever reason but um I got this house uh when I was 21 right before I graduated from college and I had no money to maintain it on top of being an extremely young homeowner who had no idea what she was doing and no help, just to be totally honest.
31:51So my poor, poor little house, she's strong and mighty and I love her and all her walls. She needs some love. There are quite a few things in my house that need to be repaired. I just replaced my back door because that was virtually non-functioning, like a sliding patio door. And it got to the point where my niece, who watches the dogs when I'm out of town, she could like barely use it. And it was so embarrassing and it was just way overdue. So I got a new back door. I am replacing most of the floors in this house because they have seen four dogs now, five dogs now, because I lived with a roommate and my ex for a while when I first moved in.
32:33So this house has seen so many dogs. And when I moved in, it was wall to wall carpet. So that combination has been fantastic. And I am ready to move on. I am getting some lovely pretend hard hardwood vinyl floors that are like waterproof. So just for anyone that's following that saga, I am getting the floors done. And I am trying to fall back in love with life by making this a peaceful environment for myself. I am determined, one project at a time. But enough about me, let's move on to our segment of hope. Every week I feel like I got something new for you guys, I got something fresh for the segment of hope, but this week I wanted to talk about just the release of the docuseries Quiet on the Set.
33:21If you haven't watched it, it's basically mostly about Nickelodeon and what all of those children actors went through, how they were abused, how horrible it was, how inappropriate so many things were. So that's basically what it's about. And the reason it makes the segment of hope is because it's making huge waves. So a few things, right? It's causing a lot of commotion in the community. It's causing a lot of people to talk about these issues, which is fucking fantastic. And two, it appears to be heavily made with the cooperation of these victims. Now, I will say, I don't know what that back end looks like.
34:03There were victims discussed in this case, victims, survivors, please forgive me, in this case that were not, that were featured in this docuseries that did not participate. And that is something to keep in mind, always. But the people who did participate seem to be pretty happy with it. So I think it makes that segment of hope because it's making us question a lot of things. I think it's making us go back to children's programming and just ask really reasonable questions. Is this appropriate? Is this safe? Is this going to traumatize them? Now, if you guys aren't a part of the Patreon, I covered a very less serious subject.
34:43I'll just put that out there. But I covered Kid Nation, a reality TV show where kids were like dropped in the middle of the desert and left to fend for themselves. A kid drank bleach. It's absolutely insane. But I love that people are questioning the treatment of children in the entertainment industry. This is a topic that feels like it's everywhere. People are talking about a certain family mom channel on TikTok. I'm conflicted about saying the child's name, but if you know, you know. And yeah, it makes the segment of hope because because kids are being considered, kids are being listened to, and I can only hope that that will spark change.
35:28But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time. Do you ever meet someone and think, wow, they've really been through it, and then realize we all have? That's what We're All Insane is all about. It's a podcast where real people sit down to share their stories that have shaped them. The raw, unfiltered moments that don't usually make it into everyday conversation. There are no scripts, no interruptions, and no filters. Just honest storytelling that unfolds naturally. From heartbreak and loss to recovery and resilience, every episode is a reminder that even in our darkest moments, we're never really alone.
36:08If you love hearing real stories that make you feel something, stories that connect us all, this is one you'll want to subscribe to. You can listen to We're All Insane wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Sunday.
From the publisher
When Detective Randy Lesser from the Spokane Police Department gets assigned a welfare check turned missing person case, he quickly realizes that no one has seen 27-year-old Courtney Holden for nearly two years. While her adoptive mother and brother, Judy and Joshua Holden, would tell police that Courtney and her 7-year-old son left willingly just a few days prior, investigators begin to discover and untangle a large and very disturbing web of lies within the entire family.
If you have any information about what happened to Courtney Holden, please call Crime Check at (509) 456-2233.
For more information about the podcast and the cases discussed, visit VoicesforJusticePodcast.com
Follow us on social media:
Twitter: @VFJPod
Instagram: @VoicesforJusticePodcast
TikTok: @VoicesforJusticePodcast
Facebook: @VoicesforJusticePodcast
Voices for Justice is hosted by Sarah Turney
Twitter: @SarahETurney
Instagram: @SarahETurney
TikTok: @SarahETurney
Facebook: @SarahETurney
YouTube: @SarahTurney
The introduction music used in Voices for Justice is Thread of Clouds by Blue Dot Sessions. Outro music is Melancholic Ending by Soft and Furious. The track used for ad transitions is Pinky by Blue Dot Sessions.
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