DeOrr Kunz Jr. Part 1

31:22We don't care how long it takes. And we think as many people that have shared the story and continue to share his pictures and things like that, if somebody has him, they'll eventually bring him back. Somebody will come forward wondering where this child has come from. With some sort of information. And that may not be the case, but it could be. So that's why we're trying to look at this aspect as well. And you want people to keep sharing that photo. Yes, please keep sharing his photo. So please keep him in your mind, your hearts and your prayers and just keep your eyes open, please. Social media in general, in public, just keep your eyes open and keep sharing.

32:00Tell me about the blanket. This is his blanket. He doesn't go anywhere without his blanket, his cup or his monkey. And all three of them were left at the campground. And since he... All three has to be with him. He will trip over them if he has to, but they are going with him. And this is the first time since he's been born, pretty much, he hasn't been without these things. And that's why you, another reason. Another reason why we're wondering. Yes, because this is the blanket that we brought him home in from the hospital. This is his, this is what comforts him any and all times. This is an exact replica of a security blanket for everybody.

32:38This is his actual blanket. He does not go anywhere without it. That's our other concern of why. Yeah. should he be out there and happen to see this what would you say we're looking for you son and we will find you and we love you more than anything in the world you have a lot of people love you and are looking for you buddy will find you daddy will find you we'll never stop looking until we get you home I've got a two year old and you guys have been all I've thought had the past two days is there anything you want to add anything we didn't get to just if somebody has him please don't hurt him just bring him home safely to us where he belongs even if you have to just leave him at a store where somebody else will see him and bring him home safely to us I don't just drop him off and if that's not the case so that they can see him and bring him home and if that may not be the case we will search for you and search for you until we find you No matter how long it takes, no matter what we've got to overcome, we will find you, son.

34:13It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. Josie, it's your new nanny Polly. The hand that rocks the cradle. A Hulu original. What do you know about her? Now streaming. You think if you try hard enough, you can stop bad things from happening. But you can't. Good help. Get out! Is hard to find. No! You need me to do this. A Hulu original. The hand that rocks the cradle. Reddit R, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus. For bundled subscribers, terms apply. That night, a vigil was held for Dior at a local park, where the community came together to really rally around Jessica and Vernal.

34:59But online, there was a huge storm brewing. Countless people began to accuse them of being involved in Dior's disappearance. And really, there's no denying that it's still one of the most popular theories in his case to this day. many people specifically targeted Jessica, saying that she just wasn't acting how they expected her to. She wasn't sad enough, she wasn't crying enough, they thought that she was cold, and that led people to speculate that she may have done something to Dior, or possibly have been involved in helping cover up some type of accident at the campsite. Now, law enforcement initially described Jessica, Vernal, Bob, and Isaac as cooperative, and eventually even issued a statement to remind the public that they should rely on information from the sheriff's office and really steer away from online rumors and speculation.

35:48They added that while none of them were considered suspects at this point, they were all considered persons of interest and being investigated. Now, adding even more fuel to this fire, it was reported that cadaver dogs hit on the scent of human remains at the reservoir. But this was later rolled out as someone came forward to say that before they became aware of Dior's case, they spread a loved one's ashes into the water, which led the cadaver dogs to hit in that spot. At this point, just a few days into the case, aside from theories about the family or Isaac being involved, the only other leading possibilities were that Dior may have succumbed to some type of tragic accident, or that he was abducted by someone who came into the campsite unseen that day.

36:34Now, please know that I will fully get into all the accusations against every adult at the campsite, but we have a lot to go over, so I just want to try to stay in chronological order as best as I can. So let's pause here and take a second to talk about these two specific theories. First, let's talk about the possibility that maybe this was an accident. I will say that the searches for Dior were very comprehensive, And you heard Vernal say that he was told that Dior was not in the surrounding bodies of water. So if there was some type of accident, it feels like it would have had to happen far from that campsite.

37:11Or that maybe some type of animal possibly found him and dragged him to another location. In this area, there are bears, wolves, mountain lions, and more. Many predators that might be looking for prey around Dior's size. Now, while this campsite was pretty enclosed by these mountains, obviously there are ways in and out. Only one road. But on foot, the possibilities are a lot more open. Many people have discounted the idea that Dior could have gotten very far because of his age. Again, he was two at this time. And the fact that he was wearing these oversized cowboy boots. But I don't know. This is just speculation, but as someone who has cared for, babysat, and been around a lot of rowdy two-year-olds, in my experience, they can be pretty fast and resilient when it comes to things like climbing and even falling.

38:03I, and more importantly, experts and members of law enforcement, have never fully ruled out that theory, that Dior could have traveled a considerable distance on foot. I mean, we hear stories like that all the time where a kid wanders away into the wilderness and is found miles from where they first went missing. It's not super common, but it definitely happens. So it does seem possible that Dior could have gotten away pretty quickly, maybe had some type of accident, or been attacked by an animal. Now let's talk about the stranger abduction theory. This is definitely less popular due to how remote the campsite was, and the fact that there was only one road leading in and out.

38:44But if Dior wandered away, it's entirely possible that someone saw him and grabbed him in that very short window of time, especially given that Grandpa Bob didn't really seem to know that he was supposed to be watching Dior and his physical state in general. Now, Robert Walton, or Grandpa Bob, was in his 70s in 2015, and he didn't move very well. He also used oxygen at this time, so as far as I can tell, he's not really getting up and running anywhere, let alone actively chasing around a two-year-old. He was also pretty prone to falling asleep just about anywhere at this time. Some people say he could fall asleep mid-conversation, so many people have theorized that he could have fallen asleep when Dior went missing.

39:29So could he have fallen asleep while someone grabbed Dior? I mean, it's possible. At the top of this episode, I told you that until just a few weeks before this episode airs, It was widely reported that no one else was in the area camping at this time, but according to that more recent coverage from the East Idaho News, there was another camping party up the hill not too far away. Not much is known about this party, and I have to imagine that they've been checked out by law enforcement. My point is, it seems clear that there could have been people nearby without anyone at Dior's campsite noticing.

40:06I think it's also worth noting that Jessica has said that while they were at the stage stop junction store hours before Dior went missing, she saw a man who she described as staring eerily at Dior. It seems like he basically just creeped her out. Now, as far as I could find, no one was able to find this man or any witnesses to back up this story. Not law enforcement and not any of the private investigators on Dior's case. So take that for what you will. But all of that to say that this was the general conversation around Dior's case at this time. There were a lot of theories, but most people were laser-focused on Jessica Invernal.

40:47Of course, the investigation persisted, and pretty soon as Dior's case picked up more traction in the media, the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office was swamped with people calling in to say that they'd seen Dior all around the world, though none of those sightings ever panned out. This is a pretty small sheriff's office, so it didn't take them long to request the help of the FBI and the Bonneville County Sheriff's Office that same month. Dior's case has also been worked by a handful of private investigators who have greatly shaped how it's been analyzed and perceived by the public. The first PI was Frank Vilt.

41:25He begins investigating in August 2015. He's a retired U.S. Marshal who spent 19 years with the service and specialized in cases of missing children, so he seems very qualified to help find Dior. He also had a personal connection to Vernal dating back to before Dior went missing. He initially believed that Dior was abducted, but he's also someone that I want to be very careful about paraphrasing or taking out of context. So I want you to hear from him directly. I promise you guys it'll all make sense by the end of my coverage about Dior. So here is a snippet of an early interview that he gave to the East Idaho News, who, by the way, did an excellent job of following this case in 2015.

42:09The fact that it's a remote campground and the fact that Dior Jr. had cowboy boots on, It was too big for him. So he would walk out of them if he tried to run, particularly on rough terrain. And so what alarmed me was, is that when the search began, the search didn't take that long to begin once he was reported missing. Several people showed up for the initial search. And there was no cowboy boots found. There was no clothing found. and that alarmed me that with the number of people searching and he couldn't find anything, they couldn't find anything that would say that he was there. The search dogs, cadaver dogs, as well as the search dogs couldn't find anything.

42:55They couldn't be on scent and find anything. There were some wolf dens that was searched, a bear den that was searched, and nothing was found. So this tells me that he probably was not called off by an animal. and he couldn't have gone that far, being two years old in that type of terrain. If he wandered off, he probably would have been found. So there's an army, well, that sounds kind of fishy to me. I always like to think outside the box. And so that's why even the Sheriff Bowerman said that he probably was not abducted, but maybe a possibility. And so the Sheriff's Department and Lamont County, as well as Bonneville County, had to do their job.

43:40Initially, they suspect the parents. And I knew, knowing Dior personally from my association when before in Montpelier, that I could never imagine him doing anything like that because he loved his son. That was his son. That was his blood. That was his heart. That was his life. That the parents would not be involved in anything sinister. So you start looking at the other people involved who was at the campground, look at the grandfather. The grandfather was in ill health on oxygen. The other gentleman, Isaac, who was there, he was a person of interest. So I think outside the box. So I think there has to be another possibility.

44:20And I rather think that I feel that he was abducted. Everything points to an abduction. Why wasn't an Amber Alert issued? Didn't fit the entire criteria for an Amber Alert. There was no vehicle they could give. There's no mother or father or suspect. that they can name as being with. So this is why it didn't fit the criteria. And don't get me wrong. The sheriff's office in Lemhi County did their very best. The search coordinator was a good man. He had prior law enforcement experience in Nevada before coming up to Lemhi County. Excuse me. So these guys are seasoned veterans, and they want to find the boy.

44:59The whole end result was to find the boy. And so they're not going to do anything to be counterproductive. But I just think that there has to be now, there's been yesterday a month from the time he was missing, there has to be another scenario. We have to look at other possibilities. So that's why I wanted hopefully to go nationwide. We have a nationwide telephone number for tips. I was hoping that people might say, well, you know, the so-and-so couple didn't have a boy last week. Now they have a boy. Where did the boy come from? That's unusual. Anything like that is a good tip. You mentioned one of the first things law enforcement does is narrow in on if there may be potential suspects, the parents, the grandfather, the friend.

45:45And thus far, no suspects have been named. In the majority of cases of abductions, is it normally somebody that knows the child or is it a stranger? Normally, it could be a friend of a friend of the family. Like normally break-ins, house burglaries, as somebody has been there before, but it's their friend that's there. With the Orr's mom and dad, of course, they're suspect. They think maybe there was an accident, and they decided to cover the accident up because they couldn't explain the accident. So let's just bury the body and say he was abducted or he's just missing. We have no idea. That investigation was zero.

46:25There was no probability on that. So they want to do the people they have in hand first to investigate because sometimes there are sinister crimes that occur. Have the parents been completely cooperative with investigators? Absolutely. I've talked to Lemhi County deputies. I've talked to Bonneville County here in this jurisdiction. They've been very cooperative, very forthright, nothing to hide. One of the things that has really been maybe different with this case compared to a missing child four or five years ago is social media. And I don't know how closely you followed it, but there has been, you name a rumor, it's been there.

47:00How is that impacting the family and the investigation? Does it? Well, it may not hurt the investigation, but it hurts the family, especially when you're accusatory. And you say, well, I wouldn't have done that. Or, you know, if it was my kid, I wouldn't have put camouflage pants on him exactly. Because it only hurts more. Those people are just agitators, just like Ferguson, Missouri. Same thing, agitated. They want to agitate because there's nothing better to do. instead of concentrating on what the real possibility may be and really helping. Now, when I was up in Lemhi County, I interviewed people who were on the sex register list to clear them.

47:36Were they cleared? They were cleared, yes. And I checked everything that could possibly be, maybe duplication what the sheriff did. And I try not to impede an investigation. And I always tell the sheriff's office where I'm going to be, what I'm going to do. So if they have a problem with it, they would tell me, let me know, particularly if they were working a particular theory. But it was fine, go ahead. And what have they been telling you? Have they been giving you the information? They didn't share exactly their investigative results, but all indications are we're here to try to find a child.

48:13Why have the parents been so quiet? Of course, a few people out there in the social media have accused them of doing things. And my advice to Dior and to Jessica was to cooperate, keep the hope. And I feel, I think your boy is probably so alive out there, it's better to think he's alive when somebody has him, rather than, well, he's dead, but we don't know where the body is. Particularly, you look into a mother's eyes with her children missing. That's real. And I don't think the parents did anything that any normal parents would be involved with going to a camping trip. I mean, everybody's pointing to it.

48:51It was with the grandfather. I thought it was the parents, and I was here and there. Things happened. And I don't think anything was planned, that anything sinister happened. This was just a possibility of somebody who was lurking in the shadows. Now, if you want to hear that entire interview and even more, I definitely encourage you to check out the East Idaho News YouTube channel. They have all of these interviews and even more from the past decade, but I think you get the point with what I played you there. Frank Vilt is firmly on the side of the family at this point and is investigating a possible stranger abduction.

49:27And not too long after, in September 2015, a new tip came in that pointed to that theory. A photo of a child was found at a Motel 6 in Stanton, California, and it was widely circulated on social media as people speculated that it was Dior. But after that lead was investigated, the child was identified, and he was not Dior. It's Hulu-ween on Disney+. Watch frightful family favorites like Hocus Pocus and Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas on Disney+. I am the Pumpkin King! Then take the terror to ten with a thrilling new remake of The Hand That Rocks the Cradle, Scream, and more with Hulu-ween on Disney+.

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50:49It's been about two months since two-year-old Dior Coons Jr. went missing, and winter is coming fast, which is obviously terrible news for those still searching for him. In October, they conduct the final organized search of the campground. Their hope is to find something that they may have overlooked before snow begins to fall in the area But again, like every other search, there's no trace of Dior anywhere That same month, a series of billboards featuring Dior's picture and basic information about his case were put up across eastern Idaho And in November, his family hires another private investigator His name is Philip Klein In an interview with Chelsea Brenzel for KIFI Local News 8, he expressed his theories about what may have happened to Dior.

51:40And they are vastly different from what you just heard from Frank Vilt. We've come to the conclusion that beyond a reasonable doubt that we do not believe Dior is alive. We believe that in this case, we are now investigating this case as an accidental or an intent death. Do you think it's likely that you will be able to find a body? You know, I'm not willing to speculate. You know, that's called crystal balling the case. I'm not willing to crystal ball the case. We're just letting the case take us where it takes us. Do I believe we see light at the end of the tunnel in this case? Yes, I believe we're getting there quickly.

52:19I'm kind of surprised how fast this case has gone. I thought it might go a little further, but we seem to be making strides in a lot of headway right now. So do you have a central theory that you're following up on? Yes, we do have a central theory that we are following up on. We are establishing, we've established that theory last Friday night in the war room down here in Texas. The investigators all got together and we have come to the same conclusion. There was a nine of zero vote. We have sent our findings on to law enforcement. You know, as publicly said by the Sheriff's Department up there, new evidence has come forward.

53:02And in this case, it's very fluid at this point. So we are there. We are getting there. I can't say enough about the FBI where you folks live out there. I can't say enough about the law enforcement in Lenore and also Evan D 'Anne and Evo Falls. I can't say enough about these guys. These guys are dedicated folks. Our team is dedicated and we're going to bring the citizens of Idaho the answers they're asking. A lot of people, of course, on social media have all these questions, all these theories. And I know you've talked a little bit about that. But one of the things that we see a lot is that they say we need to bring in Jessica and Dior and we need to we need to question them.

53:40But they've already I mean, that's that's happened. I can confirm that the parents have been interviewed by the United States Department of Justice, FBI. They have been interviewed by the Sheriff's Department at Blador, and they have been interviewed by the Sheriff's Department in Idaho Falls, and they have been interviewed by our firm. That's the only statement I can make to you, the public, right now as we are going through and we're analyzing those statements. As far as the results of those analysis coming together, you can't probably say anything about that. No, currently at this time, it's part of the timeline in this case.

54:22We have established a good and clean timeline. And anything we make statements on what someone had said or someone had done would be inappropriate this time. We are moving towards a prosecutorial phase in this case. And, you know, we don't want to jeopardize the case for law enforcement. Again, like I said, they are dedicated people and they're working very hard on this. And one thing that I do know that you've said is that you 99 % feel that he was on the mountain. Does that mean that he was at the campsite or just on the mountain? Or can you say? Let me be clear about what I'm saying. I want to be very, very clear with everybody in the media, okay?

55:01Okay. My belief is, and our team's belief is, Dior is on the mountain or near the mountain. I will say this. We have interviewed the father. We have interviewed the mother. We have interviewed the grandfather. We have not interviewed Isaac Renoir. He has hired a counsel, which is his right to do. He has hired counsel. We have extended an arm and friendship to the council and saying, let's bring him in a room. You can sit there and you can tell him to answer or not to answer. But let's just let's hear his story. Let's hear his story. And we have not heard his story yet. We need to hear his story.

55:44And so far, we've been blocked from doing that. In fact, we have not even received a return phone call. Now, this reporter, again, Chelsea Brenzel with KIFI Local News 8, was the first person to break the story about Dior going missing. So she's incredibly invested. She also does try to track down Isaac Reinwand, but wasn't able to. Just because we have had so much to cover, I haven't talked about him much up to this point, and I promise I will discuss him more later. But I think it's important to note here that while he did appear to know and be friends with Bob for quite some time, having taken a few camping and fishing trips together, the trip with Dior was the first time he met him or his parents.

56:26They'd never spent any time together before that trip, and around this time in the winter of 2015, he and Bob had stopped talking. Now, I do want to take a moment and jump back into this interview with Philip Klein. Here, they begin to talk about the impact that social media is making on Dior's case early on. Well, what I have to say to the people out on social media are a few things. Number one, some of the people out there in social media have hindered this case. Witnesses have come forward after and only after they received assurances that their identities would remain anonymous, number one.

57:07And number two, that their information would remain anonymous. And so, you know, once we were able to give them that assurance, they were scared their names and their information would be splashed up on Facebook. And that has happened in some cases from leaks from family members to people that have nothing to do with this case that don't even live in Idaho. This case is a national case. So I guess my message that I'm trying to send to the people of Idaho, if not the United States and beyond, people in England and all around that are watching this case, is simply before you write something and then you push that little button that sends it out for the world to see it.

57:50You know, let's take a step back and take a breath and think about what the main objective here is, is that's finding little Dior and not to scare witnesses and not to put false conjecture out on the Internet that they that something should happen to, let's say, the parents or the grandparents or or Mr. Renlo or the police or, in fact, our firm. You know, we're trying to say, take a step back. Let us, as the PSV investigators, do our job. Let law enforcement do their job. Let the prosecution do their job. Give everybody just a little bit of room here. We're all working hard towards getting to the end of this.

58:33Social media has hurt this case, yet it has also helped this case. Social media is a very dangerous place. After all, you can, you know, everything you read on the Internet is right, right? So that's kind of the message we're sending out there, that everything you read on the Internet, folks, is not necessarily true. Everything on the Internet out there is sometimes false. So before you take it as fact in the gospel, take a step back and think about it and make a decision whether or not that you really want to say something. Words mean things, and words can hurt people, and words can hurt this investigation.

59:11So take a step back. That's all we're asking is just take a step back. Think about what you're going to say and give everybody some room to do their jobs. So again, we have a few different theories here from these different private investigators. But the common thread is that they don't seem to have any suspicions about Jessica or Vernal. They seem to be really going as far as to defend them in these media interviews. But as 2015 comes to a close without any more answers about what happened to baby Dior, the tide really begins to change in this case. In January 2016, P.I. Frank Vilt publicly announces that he's resigning from the case.

59:52He says Jessica Invernal lied and misrepresented the facts. And Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman Publicly names Jessica Mitchell and Bernal Coons as suspects He says he believes that Dior's case should be investigated as a homicide I'll be discussing that and more in part 2 of my coverage of Dior's case next week

1:00:25As a reminder, two-year-old Dior Koontz Jr. was last seen on July 10, 2015, near Lador, Idaho in Lemhi County. He has hazel eyes, and at that time blonde hair. He was approximately three feet tall and weighed about 30 pounds. He was last seen wearing cowboy boots, a camouflage jacket, and blue pajama pants. Anyone with information is asked to call the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office at 208-756-8980. But, as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.

1:01:10Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice Media Original. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show in your podcast player. It's an easy and free way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice.