DeOrr Kunz Jr. Part 2

26:55I'm just very frustrated with Vernal. I'm very frustrated with Jessica. I'm very frustrated with their inability to tell the truth. I'm frustrated with them trying to mislead investigators, not only on our side, but FBI, who you don't mess with. I mean, I'm just warning you right now. When an FBI agent asks you a question, you be honest. If you don't know, say, I don't know. And they're giving the FBI some rabbit trails. And then, of course, to the fine people in Bonneville County and Lamont County and how they are stuck in the middle of this, trying to just get them to tell the truth. So when investigators confront them about these inconsistencies, do they double down or does their story change again?

27:37Well, the story changes. I mean, they don't ever double down. They do. Oh, well, I forgot that part. Yeah. Well, maybe he didn't see it. Well, then why'd you tell me in the first place? Well, because, you know, well, I don't know. You know, it goes off into a world that, you know, you can't be dumb all the time. I mean, this is a, you know, you can't act like you're dumb all the time. You know what happened. You were there. You were with the child. I mean, even things in the timeline, such as where was the blanket? Where was the sippy cup? Where was it? Nobody can tell the truth. And quite frankly, their stories all break down at eight o 'clock in the morning.

28:14The only time their stories are true and correct and we can verify is that when the night before and that evening and then after the 911 call, everything can be verified. However, between 8 o 'clock in the morning and 126 in the afternoon, 226 in the afternoon, I'm sorry, when the 911 call was made, we can't verify anything. I mean, nothing, zero.

28:46I know that was another long one. But again, I really do want you to hear from the people who were shaping the public opinion of this case. I feel like it just says so much more than just my interpretation of what they said. That way you can hear all the certain word choices and inflection. Now, Philip Klein actually stayed on the case paid for by Dior's family for a while longer after this interview, until they finally fired him in March 2016. Though after his termination, he pledged to continue to work on the case, stating that someone who wished to stay anonymous was funding the investigation.

29:21And as he suggested, as the weather began to warm up, there was another search for Dior that spring near the campground that lasted for two weeks. But nothing was found. The following month, there's another huge bombshell. Philip Klein announces that he and his team found Dior's camouflage jacket that he was wearing when he went missing. After Dior Kunz Jr. has been missing for about a year, private investigator Philip Klein makes another bombshell announcement. He says that he and his team went to Dior's family home in Idaho Falls after they were evicted. And while they were looking through some furniture and clothing that was left behind, they found a camouflage jacket that they believe belonged to Dior.

30:05It also matched the description of the jacket his parents say he was wearing when he went missing. They also found four matchbox cars, which investigators say his parents also claimed were missing. According to reporting by KBOI News, Jessica and Vernal were evicted for not paying rent, and the landlord allowed investigators to search through everything that was left behind at the apartment. Now, all of this was turned over to the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office, and at this point, Klein says that he now believes that whatever happened to Dior may have occurred at around 5 p.m. on July 9th, the day before he was reported missing.

30:43As a reminder, in that audio I played for you earlier, he said that all the stories from all the adults who were at the campsite appeared to be cohesive until about 8 a.m. on July 10th, so take that for what you will. He's not telling the media everything, so it seems like there might be something here that made him change his mind not long after that interview. But either way, in the end, nothing came from that. They were never able to prove that it was the jacket that Dior was wearing when he went missing. And while the sheriff's office has been vague about which items they have tested, it does seem like they've sent quite a few items off for that testing.

31:20But again, in the end, nothing came of any of this. Now that same year, Jessica and Vernal do break up and go their separate ways, really only keeping in contact to talk about Dior's case. And according to Vernal, due to all the public scrutiny, he leaves Idaho Falls altogether. By the end of the year, there was also another major shift in Lemhi County. Sheriff Lynn Bowerman retired, and Steve Penner, who was chief deputy when Dior went missing, takes over. So he's new to being sheriff, but not new to Dior's case. And really, just like the PIs, the sheriffs in Dior's case also greatly shape how it's been viewed.

32:01but we'll get to that. Dior's case is pretty quiet for the next few years or so. In 2017, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children created an age-progress photo for what Dior may have looked like at age four, and People Magazine Investigates airs an episode about his case. On the third anniversary of his disappearance in 2018, there's a walk in Dior's honor, and Sheriff Steve Penner says that there are no new developments in the case, but that it remains very active. That same year, Dior's maternal grandmother, Trina Clegg, parked her SUV at the Eastern Idaho State Fair, and while inside, someone shattered the back window featuring case information and Dior's picture.

32:44It said, One wish, one dream. Dior J. Koontz, along with two photos of him. Witnesses did report seeing a group of people in a red, possibly 1990-1996 Ford pickup smash the window. And while a police report was filed, they never found out who did it. At this point, there really was this outpour of support for her, and many companies offered to replace the glass and vinyl for her free of charge. There were also some fraudulent fundraisers posted online in her name. Now, it may seem like a small detail, but I think it's the perfect example of how split this community was, and really how enraged they still were that Dior was missing.

33:30The next year, 2019, Robert Walton or Grandpa Bob passed away from cancer at age 80. If he truly believed that Dior died from some type of accident, he took that information with him to the grave. That same month, the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office closed part of the Timber Creek campground for another search related to Dior's case. And at that time, Jessica, Vernal, and Isaac Reinwan give exclusive interviews to KTVB News. But unfortunately, unlike the interviews I've played for you thus far, these interviews aren't available in full. They're really kind of sprinkled in bits and pieces in this special about Dior's case.

34:10But I do want to play you what I can, specifically Jessica and Vernal talking about being offered immunity after Klein's allegations. Were you offered immunity? Yes, I was. And I told them no, because they offered me immunity if I told them where the body was. Who's they? Bonneville County, FBI. And I believe it was Lemhi County, too. So did they they then thought you did it? They wanted to offer you immunity if you confessed and showed them where the body was? or if I had any knowledge of somebody doing it and me knowing where the body was. And I told them, yeah, I would love to sign this, but I don't have any information for you.

34:55So I'm not signing anything. What was the immunity again? Was it a get out of jail card? It was like child endangerment or something like that and probation, something super small. And I said, well, that's all great and fine, but I don't have anything to tell you. I don't know. I would have come out with it a long time ago if I knew. Have you ever been offered immunity? There was talk of that. Oh, that was Klein, but again, yeah, Klein did, but if somebody comes to you and offers you immunity, you don't have any more information to give them. It really doesn't do you any good. Throughout this special report, they also allude that Isaac Reinwan may have done something to Dior, or at least knows more than he's saying.

35:41Jessica says that from day one she saw red flags. She said Isaac was gone for longer than anyone else, and when they began looking for Dior, he wouldn't help with the search. She specifically says that he was drinking and stayed in his tent while they were doing those searches. She also alleges that he factory reset his cell phone three times since Dior went missing. As far as a possible motive, Jessica said that he was upset that Dior was there in the first place, and asked Jessica why they would bring such a young child camping. Others have said that Isaac may have done this because he was obsessed with Jessica, and they do ask Isaac if he did anything to Dior in this special, and he denies all the allegations.

36:25He's also asked if he thinks Jessica or Vernal could have done something, and he says that he'd rather not say, and that pointing fingers isn't nice or right. Now, by this time, Philip Klein was off the case, but Vernal had since hired a third private investigator. His name is David Marshburn. He, Vernal, and Sheriff Penner went up to the campsite that same year, and they say two cadaver dogs alerted on a downed tree with animal claw marks and blood near the campground. However, after authorities searched the area, nothing was found. We also get a statement from Sheriff Penner here. Again, remember he worked for the first sheriff who named Jessica and Vernal as suspects, but Penner doesn't seem to follow that same line of thinking.

37:11He says, quote, other people have called them suspects, but I'm not committed to that theory. You can't just pursue one theory, end quote. Officially, he says that Jessica, Vernal, Isaac, and Bob are persons of interest. So take that for what you will. During this interview, Vernal and Jessica both say that they know how it looks, but reiterate that there's been no evidence pointing to their involvement in Dior's disappearance. Vernal specifically says that he's been threatened, lost jobs, and was denied housing after a landlord googled his name. In the special, Vernal shows Dior's stuffed monkey and says he's never washed it and takes it along with him and flyers for Dior everywhere he goes.

37:57The same year, in 2019, Vernal sued Philip Klein for defamation. He says Klein was trying to frame him for Dior's murder, but the case was thrown out. And this third PI, David Marshburn, also supports Jessica Invernal, even to this day. He says he doesn't believe either parent was involved. Instead, he points to Isaac Reinwand. By 2020, Dior's case is still open and active, and there is another search for him in June, but again it comes up empty. At this point, five years later, there's mostly just a lot of finger pointing. The first two PIs and first sheriff who worked the case point to Vernal and Jessica, while the second sheriff refuses to name anyone at the campground that day a suspect.

38:44Jessica, Vernal, and their third PI, David Marshburn, point to Grandpa Bob's friend, Isaac. There's a lot of media, a lot of speculation, but not really any answers. On the 7th anniversary of Dior's disappearance, Philip Klein goes back to the media to say that he and his team are rejoining the case He has a new client who's offered them funding to do so He also says that they are currently raising more funds for travel and lodging But again, nothing really happens Then in 2024, a lot happens Vernal's lawyer files a slander lawsuit against a woman named Callie Pearson She's from the Justice for Baby Dior Facebook group They say that she was spreading misinformation and that her actions had pushed Vernal to nearly die by suicide.

39:31They also say that she was paying for ads to also spread this false information. That lawsuit was settled at the end of 2024. As a part of the settlement, Vernal agreed to drop the suit if Pearson and another person from the group agreed to stop spreading misinformation. Pearson also agreed to publicly apologize for making baseless false claims against Vernal and to stop fundraising for Philip Klein. And like I said, you guys, a lot happens in 2024. That same year, there was also a possible new piece of evidence found. David Marshburn is back in the picture, and he and his team went back to the campsite and searched a nearby mountain that had never been searched previously.

40:12They find what he describes as a two-toned fleece pullover that It had bloodstains on it. It also had animal claw, scratching, and bite marks on it. He says he thinks something was wrapped in this blanket that an animal was trying to get to. And he estimates that the jacket was manufactured around 2014 or 2015, which would obviously fit the timeline. And who allegedly wore a jacket like this? Well, according to Jessica, Isaac Rindwan may have. So this is all turned over to the sheriff's office. it's sent off to the lab for testing, and unfortunately, they can only pull a partial DNA profile. According to the sheriff's office, it just wasn't enough to say if it belonged to Dior or anyone at the campsite that day.

41:00This, and really Dior's entire case, is so frustrating. As of recording this episode, it's been 10 years since Dior went missing. The evidence is limited, but the accusations are plenty. So where is Dior's case today? Well, Vernal, Jessica, and Isaac Reinwang continue to state that they are not responsible, and there is a new sheriff on the case, a man named John Bennett. Like Penner, he's been there since day one. He was one of the divers in the initial search for Dior. He also says that he does not consider anyone a suspect in this case, that all four adults at the campsite are just persons of interest, and that no solid evidence has ever been found.

41:46But what about the PIs? Well, Philip Klein and David Marshburn recently interviewed with Nate Eaton with the East Idaho News. Philip Klein says that Dior was at the campsite that day, which is one of the most common theories in this case, that Dior wasn't even there. According to Klein, he believes that Dior was there because Grandpa Bob said he was. Now, he doesn't believe anyone killed Dior maliciously. He says he believes all of this was a horrible accident, that one of their vehicles ran over Dior and killed him. He says there was a blue cooler at the campsite that has never been recovered, and that this was used to dispose of Dior's remains before the authorities arrived.

42:28He says he believes Bob knew this but was sworn to secrecy, and that Isaac Reinwand is completely innocent. He says his story has never wavered. Now, I do want you to hear directly from him as to why he believes Jessica and Vernal are covering something up. Where the lies begin is right after the gas station where they said they picked up pizza and Cokes. If you're picking up pizza and Cokes, why would you get over Lador and go get something to eat? I mean, that's one of the big foo paws in this case. We've never released that before. Was that on the way, Phillip, that they said they stopped for pizza and Coke?

43:09Yep. On the way up to the campsite the night before? On the way to Lador. Yep. Okay. And that kind of, we've never really released that before, but that's all in the past now. We can release a lot of this stuff now. And so that kind of had all nine investigators going, what? You know, okay, you had pizza and Coke, and then, what, 30, 45 minutes down the line through the valley and up the hill, and there's Lador. You're stopping because you're hungry, and you're going to get something to eat, and everybody's super hungry. That was one of their big stories, was that, oh, we were so hungry, so we were going to stop.

43:49And why would you stop then? I mean, was the pizza a snack? Well, how much pizza did you buy? We did find the receipt, too. And the receipt was two pizzas were bought. Yeah. Bought pizza. So, and then, of course, we get to the aftermath of everything. Again, back down there, I believe it's called the stage stop or the stop, down there. And all these stories about Dior taking, or Fernald taking little Dior and putting him on the truck. And going back to see the beer truck man. And then the beer truck guys are like, no, that never happened. We never saw again, but we never saw his child. And then, by the way, was there a big 18-wheeler sitting out there?

44:34No, there's never an 18-wheeler. So all these stories that they tried to fluff up to make themselves feel better and to make you and me believe in what they were saying, and especially the clerk at the store. when we got the receipts and we got the videos and, you know, the stuff about the tampons that she needed, but yet it wasn't bought till the second purchase. They never told us there were two purchases. They always told us there was one purchase, never two. We asked the question to them. We got it all day to go. What purchase? You know, well, it was only one purchase. Okay. Why do we have receipts for two purchases?

45:17And of course, then they go ash and white and go, oh, well, first were for the candies. And the second one was for the tampon and the adult stuff. And then you go, but there's candies on the adult stuff. Well, we might've forgotten some. Yeah. Why? I mean, we don't understand why. Look, and of course, the most shocking one. was the one where they went to go get green diesel for the truck. And so, you know, we talked to that young man, and he was a great witness. He said, I don't remember like it was yesterday. Okay, tell us what's going on. And he said, well, no, I filled it up. But, boy, they tried to keep me talking.

46:01They kept me busy. I said, well, did you see the child's chair behind the mama? Yeah. Was there anybody in it? No. and that was on the second day right that they were there yeah that's when we knew we had the timeline set where we knew that we knew he went up right we knew he went up but we we don't have him pass going up to the top of the mountain and that's why we think she broke down with caroline and said pointed to the mountain and said that's where we took him that's where he is jessica said that. And that's why. And so Jessica, I think, had just had enough.

46:46He says that he's planned a search of the landfill and it would take place in August 2025, so the month that this episode airs. Now, here is what Pete said. I think what happened is, well, it's a whole lot more technical and difficult to say what happened to them but when you look at all the aspects of everything um a lot of people are pointing the fingers at mom dad um but if you get right down to it the odd picture if you will the the odd scenario or the odd thing in this whole issue is isaac is um i believe isaac's the one that had something to do with little baby Dior's disappearance. And any idea if that was some sort of accident or some sort of something that was done on purpose based on your investigation?

47:53It's more of looking into the mind of the person. I believe Isaac and the grandfather had been friends for a long time. And Isaac had seen a lot of images of Jessica, the family. And then I think in Isaac's mind, he had some type of image that he could be with Jessica. He liked Jessica and was infatuated with her. And I believe that he thought this was an opportunity. If I get rid of the child, then I can have Jessica. That gets rid of Vernal, that gets rid of the child, and I can have Jessica. Now, you've been up there to the campsite, and you brought your dogs up there, too. I think you've been up there a few times, haven't you?

48:45I've been up there five times. Five times. Has anything stuck out to you? Anything brought to your attention? Yeah. The first time we went, the dogs alerted on a certain area. And what's strange about that is we didn't find anything at that point in time. So the sheriff asked us we had to leave. They would deal with it. They would come in and search later for that area. But what's interesting in that is Isaac puts himself there. and the family or Jessica had seen Isaac in that area for a long time or for a short, brief time. But Isaac puts himself there for a long time. Where the dogs hit. Where the dogs hit.

49:39And see, when Baby Dior goes missing, what is the other thing that is missing in this whole ordeal is Isaac. Isaac and Baby Dior are both missing. for a long period of time. So the last time we went was kind of a strange thing, but we decided to go outside the scope of where the dogs alerted, and we went up on top of the mountain, and there we found an old, old jacket. The jacket didn't have any pockets in it, so there wouldn't be any food in the pockets or anything. Something had to be wrapped up in this jacket in order for animals to scratch and tear at it and bite at it. And from what I know from going into school and all, it did appear to have a lot of bloodstains on it.

50:39And was it a child's jacket or like a man's jacket, adult jacket? it it's it's like a fleece pullover a large pullover jacket that um you couldn't really tell because it was torn to shreds you know and it didn't have any labels on it so you couldn't really tell what size and plus it's been out in the weather so it's shrinkage and everything else it wasn't a child it wasn't adults and jessica did make comments about when she did see isaac that it appeared that he was carrying a two-tone tackle box. And this jacket appears to be a two-tone jacket, fleece over, pullover. Okay, so you said that was on top of the mountain.

51:28For people that aren't familiar, how far is the top of the mountain from the campsite?

51:36Could you walk it? Oh, you can walk it. It's difficult for a person to walk it. My canines can run it, but for a person, it's difficult. And if you want to know my opinion of what I feel like had transpired, I feel like that Isaac could have gotten rid of the child in this jacket, put it somewhere. Animals came back that night, got it, and toted it right up the mountain. It just happened to fall out of the jacket, and they kept on going. But see, that mountain, when you climb up that mountain, there's a top flat area, and it is beautiful. But on the backside of this mountain, it is steep. It is like straight down.

52:29You can't have dogs on that side of the mountain. So if you're going to find anything, it's going to be very, very difficult in that terrain on the backside of that mountain. where it would have continued to be carried. So do you think we'll ever find Dior? We can. And the only way we're going to be able to do this is to have so many volunteers and supporters and people out there on foot and just track every inch of that campground, from the campground all the way up the mountain to the backside of the mountain. Now, that seems like a big feat, and it is. But it can be done if people are willing to come together on a certain time and just do it.

53:19And I believe we can find something of him.

53:29So we have one sheriff who says that Jessica and Vernal are suspects and two who do not. We have two PIs who believe they're to blame and one who does not. Again, it's frustrating. And what we know for sure is that Dior is still missing. Which brings me right to our call to action. Please keep sharing Dior's case. I know it's a popular one, but I feel like most of the commentary that I've seen around this is really based off that initial information in 2015. That doesn't really give us the most well-rounded picture of what's happened in the investigation and where it stands today. These cases are constantly changing and evolving with new information, which is really why I wanted to cover his case now.

54:14So please take a moment and share. This is obviously still a very active investigation, and I think a lot of people have hope that Dior will eventually be found.

54:31As a reminder, 2-year-old Dior Coons Jr. was last seen on July 10, 2015, near Lador, Idaho in Lemhi County. He has hazel eyes, and at that time, blonde hair. He was approximately 3 feet tall and weighed about 30 pounds. He was last seen wearing cowboy boots, a camouflage jacket, and blue pajama pants. Anyone with information is asked to call the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office at 208-756-8980. But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.

55:15Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice media original. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show on your podcast player. It's an easy and free way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice.

55:52Thank you.

56:21the secret after show. The studio door is open and our emotional support puppies, Popcorn and Heber, are in the room. Now let's go right into the case because we have a lot to talk about. First, I have to give a shout out to the East Idaho News. They did such an excellent job following this case and really posting those like uncut interviews that I obviously played so many for you. They just did a really excellent job, I think, in covering every aspect of this case. Now, of course, I want to talk about the way that law enforcement and the P.I. shaped this case. I just find it to be really, really interesting.

57:05It was like, I don't know, not very often in cases do I feel like they're led by these people. And like so much of Dior's case, so much of what is out there is law enforcement and really these PIs shaping it all. Now, I didn't mention this in the episode because I'm not really here to sway you one way or the other, and this is just conjecture, but many people have accused Klein in particular of being motivated by media attention and money. Of course, I don't know. I will say though, unfortunately, PIs can be kind of unreliable in true crime. Sometimes they fit that category almost of psychics where many of them have been caught scamming families.

57:52And again, don't come after me, Philip Klein. I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm just saying that that is one of the more popular theories I saw out there. I also did find something really interesting about his reasoning that I wanted to bring up here. In one breath, he says that he believes Grandpa Bob that Dior was at the campsite. He's like, we know Dior was at the campsite because Grandpa Bob told us that. But he also says that he's helping Dior's parents cover up an accident. So it's like, which one is it? Is he telling the truth? Is he covering things up? I don't know. I don't know.

58:27Some of the evidence that he presented just felt a little flimsy to me. Like there being two receipts. I mean, I don't think making a purchase and then like seeing something else that you need to buy and making a second purchase is really compelling. I don't know. That's just me. I could totally be wrong. But those were just things that I was like, hmm, that it just didn't it didn't convince me, to be totally honest. And I think really that's why I wanted to use so much of that audio. I feel like some of these people, some of the PIs specifically, made me feel some type of way. And so I tried to remove as much as my opinion and my bias from all that and just tell you what happened, play you the audio, so that way you can make your own decisions.

59:19Now let's talk about media discrepancies. I'm really happy to report that there wasn't like a ton. It was kind of like the run-of-the-mill stuff, times, dates, but nothing that really couldn't be fleshed out. So shout out to everybody who was covering the case, especially back in 2015. It was pretty solid. Now on to our heroes of the episode. First is Nate Eaton, the journalist covering this for the East Idaho News, the man that you heard in a few of those interviews there. Again, I said at the top of this after show, but just shout out to him, hero of the episode, for continuing it, for really getting all these interviews.

59:57My next two are really coupled together, and that is Steve Penner and John Bennett from the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office. Really for being there from day one to today. Even after retiring, Penner did this lengthy interview with Nate Eaton. It's just like so great to see so many people greatly invested in a case like this, and it really feels like they all care a lot. Now let's move on to our segment of hope. This is from early August of this year, August 8th, from KSL TV 5 News in Utah, and it's written by Mary Culbertson and Kennedy Camarena. Essentially, this is about a 14-year-old girl named Maya.

1:00:42She is giving interviews, so I feel more comfortable saying at least her first name. Maya went missing in the mountains while she was on this multi-day hike with her family. Apparently at one point, she kind of just strayed away from the group to use the bathroom and got lost and didn't come back. It is like the most chilling, the scariest scenario. But they deployed search teams, they had dogs, they had searchers on foot, other hikers were out there looking for her, and she was actually found about a day later, it looks like, by a helicopter. A helicopter just spotted her. It really is like the shortest and sweetest little segment of hope.

1:01:23It seems like she was totally fine. Everybody was fine. Everybody just came together and found her. And obviously it makes our segment of hope because she was found alive. But I really, you know, especially in light of Dior's case, I just thought it was like the perfect segment of hope to show the best case scenario of someone going missing in the wilderness like that. she went missing about 24 hours later a helicopter spotted her and she was found and that's because of that immediate response because of everybody including not only the search teams and all these wonderful professionals who came out but the other hikers around them just everybody coming together and she was found i love it and that's why it makes our segment of hope but as always thank you i love you and i'll talk to you next time