Lisa Irwin

25:29Featuring an all-star cast, including Jamie Lee Curtis, Jack Loudon, Kumail Nanjiani, Iowa Debrey, Julie Kavner, with Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson. Ella McKay, in theaters December 12th. Get tickets now. Everything is moving very quickly in Lisa's case. There are massive searches, strong statements from police, her parents are doing a ton of media, and the public is picking apart every little piece of information that comes out. And then it's revealed that not one, not two, but three different witnesses reported seeing a white male walking down the road near Elisa's home on the night she disappeared.

26:07Not only that, but they report that the baby appeared to be in just a diaper, despite the cold October weather in Missouri. One witness has been identified as Mike Thompson. He was riding his motorcycle home at around 4am on October 4th, when he saw a man in a t-shirt walking down the street with a baby. Quote, It was 4 o 'clock in the morning, 45 degrees. The baby don't have a blanket or coat or nothing. And this guy is walking down the street. I thought it was kind of weird. The other witnesses tell a similar story. They saw a man carrying a baby who appeared to just be wearing a diaper near the Irwin home close to 4 in the morning.

26:46And it gets more complicated. There's a surveillance video that was obtained from a BP gas station less than two miles from Lisa's home. The video showed a man coming out of a very heavily wooded area, and then walking along the road around 2.15am. Now, this is a very grainy video. It's hard to make out much. And as far as I could find, not much has come of it. And it's not really clear if he was holding a baby. But of course, the speculation is that perhaps this man took Lisa shortly after emerging from the woods by the gas station. and that this is the same man that the three witnesses later recall seeing.

27:24And while this is speculation, the timeline does match up. This man could have gotten to Lisa's home around 2.30 or 3, about an hour before Jeremy comes home. Maybe at first he's just there to rob them. He tries to push in the screen on the window at the front of the house, but maybe it makes a loud noise or it's just hard to do. Then he just tries the front door and sees that it's unlocked. He then sees three cell phones sitting on the kitchen counter and grabs those to maybe sell, or ensure that if the owners wake up, they can't call the police. And then for some reason, just takes Lisa instead.

27:58Now, we don't really know if there were valuables in the home. But if there were, none were taken, just the cell phones. So, for this theory to make sense, we have to try to figure out why someone would go to all this trouble of trying to take a baby. I mean, obviously I think there are about a million terrible things that cross my mind when I think of someone trying to steal a baby. But the thing is, there was someone seen nearby the home, with a history of breaking into homes in the area, who did have motive to take a baby. Not only that, they have a direct connection to a person who supposedly received a phone call from one of the family's cell phones that night.

28:39That's a lot, so let's break it down. When speaking to neighbors and friends of the family, police discover that there's a man living in the neighborhood who does some handyman work for families in the area. This man's name is John Tanko, but goes by the name Jersey, and he doesn't have the best reputation. He's been caught breaking into homes in the area, and is basically known as this drifter criminal. And yes, he does match the description of the man the three witnesses saw holding a baby in a diaper just around 4am that night. He's also been known to set fires, and was seen in the neighborhood the night Lisa went missing.

29:16But there's more. John Tanko used to date a woman named Megan Wright. They apparently had an on-again, off-again relationship for about five months, according to Wright. She says that she was trying to distance herself from Tanko because of his criminal background, and her feeling that he was headed in a bad direction. But here's the thing. While they were together, she told Tanko that she wanted to have a baby. So we have motive. Now to the connection to the cell phone. Well, there's a lot to say about these cell phones that were allegedly taken from the home that night. Like I said, there were three phones in total.

29:53Jeremy's phone that he left at home since he had his work cell. There was Debra's phone which was turned off and not able to make outgoing calls according to some reports. And then there was a loaner phone from a family member of Debra since hers was turned off. Like a lot of things in this case, there have been a few conflicting reports about these phones. Some reports say that the phones in general were used in the area around Lisa's home that night. And there's a lot of talk about one phone in particular making a call to Megan Wright's cell phone at 11.57pm that lasted for 50 seconds. This information actually comes from Wright herself, who told the media that the police called her in to speak with her about this call on the night Lisa went missing.

30:33but the police have been very tight-lipped about this. I think it's really important to know that before the night Lisa went missing, none of the family's cell phones had ever dialed or received a call from Wright's cell phone. Lisa's family and Megan Wright had both come out to say that they don't know each other, and Wright says that she didn't actually have her phone with her that night. She lived not far from Lisa's home with about five other adults and a few kids. She says that her phone was kind of used by everyone, and she's made some conflicting statements about who she believed was using it that night.

31:06I know, it's a lot to unpack, so stay with me. An anonymous roommate of Wright's goes to the media and says, I know who used the phone. He says it was a guy who was in the house named Dane. And Dane goes to the media too, but will only communicate with them by text. He says, yes, I used the phone. I made a call to get my cell phone turned on And to arrange some transportation for myself When asked if he answered the 11.57pm phone call He doesn't give them an answer Now, Dane actually plans to meet with journalists in person to discuss everything But backs out last minute Saying the police instructed him not to talk And when Megan Wright is asked about this, she flip-flops She says Dane did have her phone Then says he didn't So it's hard to say exactly what happened there.

31:59And to make things even more complicated, Megan Wright has said that she isn't sure this phone call happened at all. And it's not just her. A private investigator named Ron Rugen, who says he was just doing an independent investigation of Lisa's case, says he's seen the cell phone records, and tells Fox 4 News, quote, Yes, he, meaning Dane, was using the phone, but I've since been granted access to Megan Wright's cell records, and that phone call never went through. There was no incoming phone call to that phone at 11.57pm. Now, Megan Wright's cell phone was taken twice, once by the Kansas City police and again by the FBI, but at the end of the day, no one has come forward to say that they answered that call, and certainly no one has come forward to say that they made it, or if they have, the police haven't told the public that.

32:51Now, like John Tanko, Dane has a criminal history as well. He was actually arrested just a few months after Lisa went missing for stabbing a man who thankfully lived. And people who say that they know Dane have said that while they don't think he'd be the type to harm a baby, he might help cover something up. In the end, of the three witnesses who saw the unidentified man carrying the baby that night, only one picked John Tanko out of a lineup. The other two say that he is not the man they saw. So what came of all of this? Of John Tanko being seen that night? Of Dane of the phone call, the mysterious man?

33:27Well, basically, nothing. In the end, police actually clear both men. They say that they were brought in for questioning, were cooperative and are not considered suspects. How they got to that conclusion, they aren't telling us. But they say that these two men are basically cleared. And as time goes by, the leads for Lisa's case slow down. And her parents also slow down on media appearances, and continue to have a hot and cold relationship with law enforcement. But after taking a short break from doing media, in February 2012, they do appear on the Dr. Phil show. They defend themselves against accusations that they might have had anything to do with Lisa's disappearance.

34:08And this does not go over well with the public, especially after Dr. Phil announces that their interview was not enough to make him believe they shouldn't be suspects. And after the show premieres, journalists are back to camping outside their home again. One reporter is seen knocking on the door four times, and then apparently on a window of the home. The police do eventually arrive and ask reporters to stop approaching the home, and this was also met with criticism. I think that one thing the public wasn't quite thinking about while analyzing all these actions is that Lisa's older brothers were just 5 and 8 years old and still living in that house.

34:47I have to imagine people outside their home camping out, a reporter knocking on their window, could be really scary for them. I did read a similar report of a group that held nightly vigils outside the home. At first, they were really supportive of Lisa's parents, but once they stopped speaking to them every day and participating in these nightly vigils, they began to speak out asking why, saying it was suspicious. And of course, many things transpired in this case that make you wonder if the parents were involved. There's no denying that. I just think that there's this whole other piece to this, that Jeremy and Debra still had two young children to care for during all this, and it must have been extremely confusing and scary at times to have people constantly outside their home, to have cameras watching them go into their home after school.

35:36I'm not saying I know what Lisa's parents' intentions were or if they were involved. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here. Either way, over time, there were a few more things that came out. In May 2012, Deborah appeared on the Today Show, and discussed a fraudulent transaction on Jeremy's debit card from just a few days after Lisa was gone. Apparently, on November 6, 2011, there was a charge for$69.04 from a British website advertising a name-changing service. Two other charges were attempted and declined. But then the website changed its content after some period of time. At first, the URL went to this name-changing service website, but when they clicked on it later, it was a website selling stationery.

36:20It's a really odd piece of this case that we don't have a lot of information on, and Lisa's parents have expressed concern that they didn't believe the police were taking this lead seriously. But like a lot of things in this case, this doesn't really go anywhere. Or if it does, that information has not been released to the public. By the one-year anniversary, investigators say that they've worked over 1 ,600 leads on the case, and that at least one investigator and one FBI agent worked the case every single day. Now, for some reason, they decide not to give an on-camera interview for the anniversary, but they release a statement saying that there are still unanswered questions, and the only one with the answers to those questions is Deborah Bradley.

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37:34Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS! By the one-year anniversary of Lisa Irwin going missing, there have been a lot of ups and downs in the case. We have three witnesses claiming to have seen a man carrying a baby near Lisa's home the night she went missing.

38:16We have John Tanko also being seen in the area, who matches the description of the unidentified man. But only one witness picks him out of a lineup. and despite his odd connection to a possible phone call made that night, he is cleared. The police have been extremely outspoken about the family and have heavily alluded to their possible involvement, even stating on the one-year anniversary of Lisa's disappearance directly that Debra is the only person that can answer some of their outstanding questions. But Debra and Jeremy's lawyer snaps back at this, saying, quote, I don't know how much more involvement we can have.

38:52The thing they're looking for in their press release is some sort of one-on-one interrogation with a detective to interrogate Debra, to get some kind of confession, and obviously that didn't work initially. The one thing we cannot allow to happen is an abusive and antagonistic interview process that took place early on. Now, Debra and Jeremy also released a statement for the one-year anniversary. They urged the public to not forget about her, and to just keep looking. They also create new flyers for Lisa and put them up in the neighborhood. At this point, neither side is backing down. And unfortunately, this really is the bulk of what happened in Lisa's case.

39:32It was like this huge wildfire in the news for about a year. And then as these things go, over time, everything just slowed down. Now, in 2013, there was a young girl found in Greece that people believed could be Lisa. She had blonde hair and blue eyes and appeared to be about the same age. but they did a DNA test and it was not Lisa. Over the years, age-progressed photos of what Lisa may look like were released, and her parents continued to do media about the case. In 2016, they appeared on People Magazine Investigates, and the production was very favorable to them. Steve Young, the officer who made many negative statements about Lisa's parents, told People that they don't have any suspects in the case, And Jeremy says that they're pretty sure they know what happened to Lisa and who did it, but didn't really elaborate.

40:21He just said that he and Debra are not the police. In 2018, Jeremy and Debra continued to do media, saying outright that they don't care if people think they were involved or not, as long as they continue to share Lisa's story. And in 2020, they appeared on a panel at a virtual crime con event to continue discussing the case. But that is pretty much where Lisa's case is today. So, what happened to 10-month-old Lisa Irwin? Well, there are just so many unanswered questions. While the cadaver dog did appear to hit near her parents' bed, the carpeting was never taken from the home to be retained as evidence or for possible retesting, and it obviously wasn't enough to make an arrest.

41:03Not to mention, of course, it is not a perfect science and may have been a false positive. Who called Macon Wright's cell phone that night, and who answered? Was that call even made? I have to imagine the police wouldn't have called her in for nothing, but the reports about the discrepancy in the phone records are worth discussing. Now, apparently a wealthy family hired a PI to look over Lisa's case, a man named Bill Stanton. He's been very outspoken. He says he doesn't work for the family or the police. He works for the truth, and he told Good Morning America, quote, This whole case hinges on who made that call and why.

41:40We firmly believe that the person who had that cell phone also had Lisa. And I have to agree, that call could hold the answer to all of this. And of course, what about that unidentified male holding a baby that night? If it wasn't John Tanko, then who was it? And does that open the case up to a rare random stranger abduction? Now, we do know that when Lisa's brothers were interviewed, they apparently reported hearing some noises that night. Could that have been someone popping out the screen on the window or coming through the front door? We don't know. My next question is, did Debra really fail the polygraph test?

42:19We know that they aren't reliable, and we also know that police can lie to people about this exact thing. But despite being extremely outspoken about Debra, they never responded to accusations that they lied in order to elicit a confession from her. And what about the dumpster fire and the burnt baby clothes? We don't know if those were the pajamas Debra says Lisa was wearing to bed that night. We don't really know anything about this. We don't know who said it or what the results of the searches at the landfill produced. We only know that the clothes were shown to Debra when she was being accused of killing Lisa.

42:54We also don't have any answers about DNA or fingerprints from the house. We know that items were taken and processed, but police haven't really told the public anything about this. And one of my biggest questions is how and why did they clear John Tanko from this investigation? I think that this piece of the puzzle probably holds a lot of information that would make this case make more sense. Of course, this case has no shortage of theories. I even found an article from CNN about someone finding a pentagram near the home. Of course, they're trying to jump to this conclusion that maybe it was some cult thing.

43:32Satanic panic and all that. Now, in October 2021, Deborah Bradley did express her theory. She told KSHB News, quote, I think that someone was paid to come into our home. Our house was watched. And they waited for the perfect opportunity. Jeremy never really worked nights. I absolutely believe she was human trafficked. Lisa's parents do hold out hope that she'll come home someday. And it appears that they've kept her room exactly the same for all these years. They've shown pictures of her room with presents just stacked up everywhere. Missed birthdays, Christmases. They even say that they buy her a Halloween costume each year.

44:13Now, the family does have a website for Lisa. FindLisaIrwin.com. But it doesn't look like it's been updated in quite a few years. On it, it says, quote, Lisa is a toddler now. We have to keep our eyes open for an older version of her pictures. She should be walking, and her vocabulary might be bigger. The auburn tint in her hair might have taken over and look less blonde. She should have a lot of big teeth now, too. Please pay attention to anyone around you that has a young toddler now. Think about your neighbors, family, distant family, friends, and co-workers. Lisa is being raised by strangers.

44:51Lisa should be home with her mommy, daddy, and two older brothers who love her more than anything. Every day is a struggle to function without her. Please help us find our Lisa. At the end of the day, we can only work with what we have, and this is what we have. And of course, we know why investigators can't tell the public everything, and I fully support that. That being said, Lisa's case has to be one of the most confusing and frustrating that I have ever covered on this podcast. Which brings me right to our call to action. No matter what you think happened in this case, Lisa needs to be found.

45:31If she is out there alive, she would have turned 13 years old the week before this episode airs. She's old enough to ask questions and possibly recognize herself. And of course, if she is not out there, whoever did this needs to be held responsible. And while Lisa's case was extremely popular when she first went missing, that media pressure has since lessened. So please take a moment to share Lisa's story, and especially share the age-progressed photo of her that I will have on her social media channels and website. There is always hope.

46:11As a reminder, Lisa Renee Irwin went missing sometime between 10pm on Monday, October 3rd, 2011, and about 4am on Tuesday, October 4th, 2011. Lisa is white, and at the time of her disappearance, she had blonde hair, blue eyes, and was about 30 inches tall. She had just two bottom teeth, a small bug bite under her left ear, and a beauty mark on her right outer thigh. It is worth noting that she was sick with a cold at the time, and was last seen wearing purple shorts and a purple shirt with white kittens on them. There is still a$100 ,000 reward in this case, and if you have any information, you can call the Kansas City Police Department at 816-234-5136, or you can email missingperson at kcpd.org.

47:08But, as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time. Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice media original. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show on your podcast player. It's an easy and free way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice.

48:12you

48:18Welcome to the Secret After Show. I was losing it at the end of this episode. It's no secret that I get emotional about these cases, but this one, whenever it's a baby, is always really, really hard. It just seems especially unfair the younger they are. And like I said, this was one of the most frustrating and confusing and complicated cases I have covered yet. There were just so many moving pieces to this, and so much happened in the first few days, really, of Lisa going missing. That's the bulk of what happened in this case. And I think with so many unanswered questions, which, like I said in the episode, is fair, you know what I mean?

49:00Like, they have to hold stuff back so that they can make a proper conviction. I get that. I'm not trying to slam it. It's just hard. It's hard to tell this story because you're like, yeah, there were three witnesses who saw this guy holding a baby in just a diaper near the house. And what came of it? Well, I don't know. You know what I mean? We know that they eliminated John Tanko, Mr. Jersey, but that doesn't explain like the phone call, which I think is a huge thing. I agree with that private investigator that I said that in the episode. I was a little opinionated. I agree that that call really holds the answers to this.

49:41And I will say that there was information in this episode that I didn't include to protect some of the kids in the case. Lisa's brother's names are out there. There's a lot more information about the little girl found in Greece that they thought was Lisa. And I just, and I probably don't I don't need to remind you, and I feel a little preachy, but, you know, it's just, it's hard. I think when kids are little, it's like with my nieces and nephews, you know, the reason that I don't bring them into things that you never see them, you never hear about them, is because I believe they have a right to privacy.

50:18and when they're children they can't opt in or out of that privacy i just default to you deserve privacy my worst fear especially with um the nieces and nephews who have my last name who have the tourney last name is that someone googles them and asks them about it or has some weird prejudice against them because let's be real that can happen i have hired people you Google them before you hire them to see what they're like, at least in a lot of positions. You know, employers want to make sure that you're not, you know, being a total idiot on social media or whatever. You're not like racist or some horrible person.

50:58But, you know, I've walked into job interviews, you know, years ago, and people knew who I was. And it's just weird. And until they're old enough to opt into that, I don't think it's fair to share that information. And, you know, if it was relevant, I might. But what's the value in knowing her brother's names? I don't think anything for us. What's the value in going into that little girl who has found, you know, terrible background? Not much for us. But there's so much more at stake if you do talk about it. There's so much more opportunity to harm them. So I guess I just really hope that you guys understand why I don't always include that information and why I really try to protect minors in a lot of these cases.

51:45As far as what's been going on with me, well, I was sick last week and my voice was awful and I just didn't want to hurt my voice. I wasn't feeling up to it. I was not feeling up to it. So thank you for giving me that week off. I am sorry it happened. It really sucks when that happens, but sometimes I just can't record. Other than that, I've just been trying to catch up on work, to be honest, from missing some time being sick. So let's move right on to our segment of hope. This actually comes from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's blog. I don't know why I said it like that.

52:21Blog. But we have some happy news. Of course, happy shrouded in sadness. You guys know how it is. It's always weird for me to call it happy because none of the circumstances are happy. But we have a great breakthrough in a case. A little girl only known as the Christmas Jane Doe has been identified. Her name is Kenyatta Odom. And you guys, this came from a tip. They say that a tipster recognized a facial reconstruction created by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, NECMIC. And there was an arrest. On November 10, 2023, investigators arrested Kenyatta's mother, Evelyn Odom, and her former boyfriend, Ulister Sanders, age 61, both of Albany, Georgia.

53:08They were indicted and charged with felony murder, cruelty to children in the first degree, aggravated battery family violence, concealing the death of another person, and conspiracy to conceal the death of another. This is an ongoing investigation, but apparently this is how the story goes. On December 21st, 1988, just days before Christmas, a truck driver discovered skeletal remains in a box off Duncan Bridge Road in Waycross, Georgia. The remains were found wrapped inside a brown blanket and concealed inside a duffel bag that was placed inside a TV console cabinet. And it appears that they were able to determine that she was African American, a female, and about 3 to 4 years old, though she was apparently 5.

53:54But in January 2023, the GBI says that they received a tip from a member of the public claiming to have seen the Nekmek facial reconstruction. This person tells police that they thought it was Kenyatta Odom. And the rest is history. So obviously the reason this makes this segment of hope is because this is what it's all about. And I know I keep saying that, I know that's like my line at this point, but it really is. this is why I ask you to share every week and I'm sure that you are so freaking tired of hearing that by now and I've heard people talk trash about that how these calls to action you know are hollow and it's just a way to make people care when it's really just about salacious true crime but I think you guys know that's not what it is for me and that's why we have this segment of hope this person saw something said something and it led to a break in this case led to solving this case, essentially.

54:47I mean, obviously, they still have to go to trial and that whole terrible process, but, um, yeah. She's been identified, and her parents have been arrested for her murder, essentially. Well, her mom and the boyfriend. I don't know much about the relationship there, but that's why it makes this segment of hope. Um, you know, whatever this person saw, someone shared she called it in and the rest is history so please keep sharing these cases you never know who might see it and call in a tip we've seen it in so many cases now i don't know how many times i need to do these segments of hope uh to express the power of a share but i will keep doing it as long as you guys are listening because it's not only that right i think it's really encouraging um but i feel like these segments of hope that this segment of hope has really become a nice little palate cleanser for these cases because they're tough.

55:47This week's episode is tough. So I'd just like to remind you of why we do this, why we're here, and that though these cases may be unsolved, which isn't particularly satisfying, I know I hear it all the time, why don't you do solved cases? It's because I don't feel like I can help them. So I know that these cases aren't satisfying in the same way that solved cases are, but if you can help and share and be just a small part of a breakthrough, I can't think of anything more satisfying in true crime. But I'm gonna step off my soapbox now, tell you thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.