Losing Maura Murray Re-release

27:49You know, I'm sure you know what I mean. Yeah. I mean, you know, to your point, it is hard to be on all the time, especially when you have those off days. I mean, I experienced this, so I just have to imagine that you do as well. There's just some days where it does feel really sad and there's not as much hope maybe as other days where it's just a hard day. And you get these messages and And you want to encourage the people who care. You want to show them that you care that they care. You want to develop this rapport. And sometimes it's just really hard because you don't always feel like we're going to find her someday.

28:24Some days you just don't feel that way. So I totally sympathize with that. It's really hard. And when you get so many messages, I know I do. I feel guilty that I can't respond to them all. Like I used to in the beginning. I used to spend, I mean, my goodness, most of my lunch breaks at work. Most of my bathroom breaks at work. You know, every free second I had essentially was responding to messages and responding to comments because I wanted each and every person who cared about my sister to know that I cared that they cared and that I appreciated it. And once it gets to a certain point, it's like it's you can't anymore.

29:00It just gets too big. I mean, that's how I felt. Did you do you feel similar or am I just speaking out of turn? Oh, no, I feel the exact same way. Um, and for someone to take the time to make a comment on Facebook or to send me an email, um, however small it is, or even if it's just, Hey, I'm thinking about you and I'm praying for you. Um, yeah, I, I feel horrible when I can't respond to that. Um, because that, that fuels me and it, and it does give me that little bit of hope that there's compassion and empathy out there in this mean world. And, you know, I want those people to know that I hear them and I want to thank them.

29:46But, you know, like there's times where you just can't get to it. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So let's dive into this community that we've been kind of talking about. Now, I'm just going to ask you to define the Morimori community. And I assume that this is going to be a mashup of all social medias, right? We're not just talking about Twitter. We're not just talking about Reddit. We're not just talking about the infamous now Facebook group. We're talking about, you know, this community as a whole. So how would you describe the Maura Murray community? Yeah, I think it's important that we first define, we define that, that defining the community is huge because in the whole true crime space, It's not just the Mara Murray community or, you know, your sister's community.

30:32It's people in true crime are either there by choice or they're like you and I. We don't have a choice. We're here. Right. And we have to be here and we can choose to ignore it, but we're in it, you know, and we're being talked about every single day on all these different social media things. And every single word we say is analyzed and overanalyzed and twisted. And so I think it's important for people to understand that I did not choose to be here. And if I had a choice, I probably wouldn't be in the true crime space. It's just not my thing. I'm more of a history person and I want to watch sports and stuff and go hiking.

31:19But here I am and I'm part of it. And so for my sister, we have this community of people that the overwhelming majority want to help. They see this mystery. They see that we don't have any clues. We don't have any answers. The police don't release any records. There's been no named suspects in over 17 years. And so as a society and as a Mara Murray community, we want to problem solve and people want to help and they want to solve this problem and they want to see if they can piece it together and find that one missing piece. And I need that. And families of missing people need that. And I mean, I don't have to tell you that.

32:11So you've got that's the vast majority. However, there are some people inside of this community that are obsessed with wreaking havoc on others. I don't fully understand it. It's toxic and it's a big distraction. And it's almost like there's these little trolls. There are these little puppet. There's one one or two puppet masters that are, you know, releasing all these trolls to distract. And it's very, very easy to distract in a case such as my sister's where there's no answers. So there's so many rabbit holes. It's not like I can lay out facts and say, no, no, no, that's wrong. That's not a good theory because X, Y, and Z, and here's the evidence to prove it.

33:02It's wide open. And I describe it as sort of like a storyteller's dream because you can tell whatever story you want. And so you've got these people that want to help. You've got these toxic people. You've got, we've been infiltrated by trolls who want to distract. and it's just a jumbled mess as of late. And I am trying to keep the focus on Mara, but it's very, very difficult and it's very challenging. So I also, as we spoke about earlier, I'm balancing all these different kinds of things. So I have to be careful that I'm not spending my entire time in internet world trying to referee people fighting over things that are irrelevant.

33:50Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I think a good question to ask here since you brought it up is, you know, how much responsibility do you feel you have to moderate this community, to speak up for anyone in this community? You know, and do you feel like an influencer in that sense where you are kind of elevated above this level in which you need to direct this community? I think that there's at least from the tweets that I've seen, there's been many people who have said, you know, Julie Murray needs to say something. Julie Murray needs to command her followers to do X, Y and Z. And in my head, it's not as if you're choosing to be an influencer.

34:30You know, you haven't really crossed that line. You're not really putting out your own content. You're not out there making a ton of TikToks about things. You're not out there, you know, establishing this big Instagram profile or whatever it might be. And I just I want to know in your mind, what type of responsibility do you think you have to this community?

34:53that's a great question and i'm glad you brought that up because you're right i am i am not in this i'm not a content creator i'm i'm a family member i am a secondary victim in this um i am not in this to capitalize i'm not in this for profit i'm just in in this so that i can continue the awareness for my missing sister because we haven't solved it yet and i need someone to come forward at this point 17 years later with that missing puzzle piece. And if I don't continue to talk about it and try to do the best that I can to keep awareness on her case, then people are just going to forget. And that one missing puzzle piece is just going to get, you know, just lost in the shuffle.

35:37And we're going to, you know, have all these Twitter debates about, you know, irrelevant stuff. So my philosophy is, and I, you know, I learned this from the military is lead by example. So I can only control myself. So what I'm going to do and what you will see from me always is that I will take the high road 100 % of the time. I'm not, I'm not in this. I'm not an angry person. I'm not vindictive. I have been wronged. I certainly have been wronged, but I I am not that person that's going to go and lash out. I have got to maintain my focus on Mara and finding her. And if I get distracted by anything else, then I am doing a disservice to my missing sister.

36:22And I will not do that. So I lead by example. People can choose to follow me and follow my example and treat family members and treat Mars memory with respect and dignity, or, you know, they can choose their own way and go down to a lowbrow approach. But I'm not going to do that. Having said that, you know, I should not be held responsible for the actions of others. There's many, many people in this community that have reached out to help. And as a, you know, a desperate family member, I don't really discriminate over who can help me and who can't. Do I agree with a lot of the transgressions behind the scenes?

37:14Absolutely not. And you're not going to find me doing any of that or any of that on my record. And, and so I'm sort of in this catch 22, where it's like, I need all this help. I need this media attention. But at the same time, people are demanding things from me when in fact they should be demanding statements from public officials. I'm not a public official. I'm a family member. People need to go to the cops and demand statements from them, case update from them. Where are we? 17 years later. Don't demand from me a statement like you're entitled to that type of thing because you're not. And having said all this, I need to make myself very, very clear.

38:00I don't condone any of the behavior that is causing people to be afraid, that is threatening, that is bullying. And again, I go back to my philosophy, you will never see me doing that. So I ask people, follow my lead because that's all I can do. Yeah. I mean, I think, I mean, it's a really sore topic for me, right, is demanding things from family members. I think if you're truly in this to help, why are you following back up demanding things from these family members? I think it's a weird space that we're in where people will generously donate their time and their money, but there's a lot of strings attached.

38:44And I feel like not everybody, but there's certain situations where you're like, hey, man, I thought you were just here to help. Like, I don't necessarily have time or resources to do X, Y, and Z that you're now attaching to this help that you gave me. And I feel like that's kind of, it's very unique to family members in this space. And I feel like it can easily turn on you, right? Not responding to an email turns into she doesn't care. You know, you making a broad statement instead of addressing something, you know, by name, by, you know, using someone's name as opposed to making a broad statement, it's, well, she's suspicious.

39:17It just, it turns so quick and it's really insane. And to be totally honest, you know, I spend, I spend a lot of time on social media, looking at these communities, not just more as community, but other communities, because I am so enthralled by this topic of ethics and true crime. And I want to learn more about it. And that comes down to the consumer, right? It comes down to the people making these posts. So I, I see a lot out there, All of that to say that Maura's community is very unique to me. I don't see this in pretty much any other community in terms of aggression, in terms of people attacking you.

39:53I think that, like you said, there's so many people that really do care and they're doing amazing things and they're just trying to kind of fact find. but there's a lot of aggression and there's a lot of toxic people out there that I think are kind of scary and not in this for the right reasons. And I by no means know every single thing about this online community. I think it would take, you know, like basically you'd have to get like a doctorate degree in the Maura Murray community to understand each and everything that's going on. Like even I was put on one of those email chains, right? This, one of these massive email chains that people always talk about.

40:25And I'm like, what is going on? But you know, that being said, I just I just kind of wanted to state for the fact that I do believe that the community has really gone sour and kind of toxic. And it makes me sad. And it's the whole reason I want to have this conversation with you because I want to, I want to talk about how you think the community is affecting Maura's case.

40:49Yeah, that's a great point. So negatively is my answer. It's, it's negative right now. Um, the current status of the community, the online community is negative. It's toxic. Uh, it is not even about Mara. It really isn't. It's these, um, it's people that have inserted themselves into the case and have brought with them, um, giant egos and, uh, the sense of entitlement. So it's like, who knows who's privy to what and who knows more and who's been at it the longest. I'm here to tell you, I don't care how long you've been at it. If you find that missing puzzle piece and you just joined the Facebook group yesterday, you're just as valuable as someone that's been here from day one since, you know, February 9th.

41:40And that's the thing I tell everyone, like we discussed before, I can't discriminate. I'm not in a position to discriminate who can help me and who can't. I'm not a company. I don't employ anybody. I have no employees. I don't control anybody. I can only speak for myself. And, you know, I just wish people could all get on the same page and, and realize the humanity behind what we're, we're all here for. It's a missing woman. And I'm living, breathing flesh and blood, right sitting right in front of you and I'm her family member I'm you know I'm struggling with this every single day every single night and I need help and um the toxicity in this community is is just it's not helping it's distracting and at every chance I get I say could we please focus on Mara but it's hard when you have all these these egos involved yeah I mean I really do feel like the focus has been taken away from Maura and that it just breaks my heart, to be totally honest.

42:51And while we're at this subject, I do want to touch on how you think this has affected Maura's legacy, because I feel like people don't really understand that as you create this content, I mean, my goodness, even as you create a Twitter post, you are kind of shaping the history of these people in a way, because you don't know what people are going to find when they Google the words Maura Murray. It might be your tweet saying something negative about her. It might be a Facebook post that says something great about her. But I do feel like her legacy has been kind of tarnished. And I don't mean to overstep my bounds.

43:25I mean, it's your sister, not mine. But it's hard because I see people villainize a lot of her behavior that I find to be kind of normal. And I do feel like I had an advantage with my sister's case and her being 17 and not yet hit that threshold of adulthood, they kind of gave her this pass for her behavior. But yet Maura is demonized for, again, what I think is pretty normal behavior for a 21-year-old. I mean, I'm not saying that all of it's right. I'm not saying all of it's wrong. But I don't really find a ton of what she did to be abnormal. So how do you feel that all of this is affecting Maura's legacy?

44:03I mean, I imagine that there's younger kids in your family that will someday Google Maura's name and have to find these things. So I would just, I would love to get your take on all of that. Yeah, I mean, tabloid bloggers have absolutely destroyed Maura's image. And essentially turned her into an unrecognizable character in an alternate universe where they write themselves in as the victim. They become the victim in Mara's story. And my family and Mara herself are the villains. And they go as far as to blame my family for our own trauma. Blame the family of a missing woman for their own trauma.

44:50I mean, it makes me sick. It's disgusting. there are no ethics in that you know Mara is not here to defend herself I'm it I'm my dad and I and Curtis you know my other siblings we're the only ones she can't hear she's not here she can't she can't defend herself and to just pick and choose bits and pieces of a 21 year old's decision-making skills and, and post it in a public forum without context, um, without empathy, uh, is, is just horrible. And like you said, yeah, I mean, if people Google Mara, they're going to find, um, these bits and pieces, uh, of her young 21 year old life that that are just pulled and put on public display and ruthlessly scrutinized by this online community that is supposed to be here to try to help find her.

45:58But no, we're going to talk about how an armchair diagnosis of a sociopath comes to be. How does that come to be? How is that victim-centered? How does that help us find Mara? Why is that on the Internet? Why? That's not ethical. It's not morally right. And I think there's this line where some of these armchair sleuths cross where they think, OK, I found this information out about a victim or a family member. And now it is my responsibility to post it online. That's wrong. That's not OK. and that's where the ethics and true crime need to we need to talk about it we need to have a conversation because too many content creators too many tabloid bloggers are doing that it's not okay I think I went on a huge tangent and I don't even remember what the question was but you're doing great that's how I feel that's my best form of being is being on a tangent but But yeah, I mean, it's such a bittersweet thing, right?

47:11It's twofold because not only is it content creators putting that out there, but there's also obviously a demand for this content from the consumer. People are obviously reading, listening, watching, whatever it might be. And I think that a lot of consumers fail to understand that the second you stop giving them your money, which is your eyeballs, it's your ears, it doesn't have to actually be your money, they'll most likely stop creating this content. So it's like, you know, there's, I feel that there's a responsibility on the creator as well as the consumer. Like if you read it or you see it and it's, it doesn't feel good to you, it might be time to stop supporting that creator.

47:51It might be time to kind of walk away because I think that that's the best way to discourage this content. I mean, whether we like it or not, true crime is a part of the entertainment business. There's no getting around that. I'm not saying it should be. I'm just saying that's how it is. There is a lot of incentive to create this content. And that incentive is mostly fame and money, right? I mean, a lot of people are in this for the right reasons. I think that that's a huge driving force for a lot of people. But once you take away those incentives of we're not going to listen to you when you put out stuff that doesn't feel good, we're not going to watch it.

48:22I think that those creators slowly die out. So I just kind of wanted to, I guess, say that for the record. I just think it's an interesting aspect that people don't think about is, as long as there's demand for content that talks about more of being a sociopath, there will probably always be content out there like that. It's just, I don't know, it's something I'm really passionate about. So I just had to bring it up. Yeah, I wanted to talk about something that I heard you mention. And if we don't want to go there, that's fine. But I remember hearing one time you, there was a seminar or a conference at a college and it was going to feature Alyssa and they were going to do some analysis.

49:06And you were like, oh, I want to go because I want to know what these people are saying about my sister. And I want to be there to sort of, I don't know how you, you know, if you were going to be able to, but protect her image, you know, or just know about what was being said about her. I feel that the same way. And it's an impossible task for you and I to be in attendance or read everything that's written about our siblings? And how do we as family member advocates protect the image of our missing loved ones? I think we're in the right vein by saying, okay, we need to hold these people to account.

49:55We need to say, if you're going to post salacious, sensationalized clickbait, we're going to stop following you. We're going to stop reading it. Um, and silence you in that way, because that's all there is for these people. It's that attention, it's those clicks, it's breaking news, come back to my website tomorrow. It's that type of, um, tactic, um, that destroys the images of our, um, missing loved ones because people pile onto that. They're like, Oh, this is okay. They're well-respected. And so, you know, I'm also going to talk about these unfounded things about this person's this victim or family member um so we've got to get to a better we've got to make a change and we've got to get to a better point to where people at least give pause to clicking on that clickbait material because you're right you know when it feels slimy we all know and why are we clicking that for entertainment yeah oh yeah yeah Yeah, for entertainment because we're interested.

51:01We want to see what the next thing is. And I actually had this on my list as like a side question because one of the things that I'm laughing – I mean, I'm smiling because it really does make me laugh. Whenever I see anything that's like exclusive news story about this case, I'm like, uh-huh. Like it doesn't matter what case it is. But like in my experience, whenever I saw anything like that about my sister, exclusive new information, I was like, okay, so here's my question besides my just tangent here is have you ever read a headline that said exclusive new information and there was actually exclusive new information inside of that piece of content, whatever it was?

51:41Because I've never, I've never, I've never seen actual exclusive content when they, when they advertise that there's exclusive content. I think and I think that that's why one time. Yeah, like people don't get it. I think that they think like we know and we're like we're hiding back. Like, Julie, why didn't you talk about this exclusive content? You're like, because breaking news, it's not exclusive. Breaking news, it's not new. Like these are media tactics that go back decades and decades, especially with true crime cases like they're it's clickbait is what that is. And I wish more people would see that.

52:16So hopefully we can like set the record straight here that if you see something in true crime, unless it's like a fairly new case, right? Because I mean, obviously, this isn't this doesn't apply to every case. But most of the time, if you see something about an old case that is like, exclusive breaking news, and you're hearing it from one person, as opposed to all of the media or whatever, it's probably just clickbait, probably just clickbait. yeah yeah and that's that's been my life for like 10 years is dealing with um that how do i how do i approach the those clickbait uh tactics when i know it's not true you know i've gone so far as to to write on my facebook group hey if there's any new case information it's gonna come from me it's gonna come through law enforcement through me and I've confirmed that with law enforcement on my sister's case.

53:12I'm like, hey, are you giving like breaking information on my case and bypassing me? And they're like, they look at me like I'm crazy. They're like, no, why would we do that? You were, we're going to you. So I don't know. Well, you're not alone in that either. I've seen that happen in plenty of other cases where the family member has to actually go to law enforcement and say, oh my gosh, are you talking to this creator, whoever it might be? Because they're saying that they have this new exclusive information. And law enforcement's like, absolutely not. I have no idea. I've had to do that myself.

53:46I've had to go to law enforcement and say, are you giving this person exclusive information that I'm not getting? Which is silly because then you get back to wasting resources and wasting time because these detectives nine times out of 10 aren't just working your case. They have a ton of other cases. And that might be the one email they get, you know, get to about your case that week. And it's like, well, you took up my bandwidth, you get my one hour a week or whatever. And that's dispelling rumors and, you know, lies. And it's just, it all comes down to like a focus away from the case, taking away resources that could be used to actually finding this person, which kind of, you know, segues me into my next question is, you know, how do you think that this community around Maura and her story has affected possible witnesses or persons of interest.

54:33I mean, my gosh, I'm afraid to put out this episode, to be totally honest, because I know that I'm going to be attacked. I can't imagine being a witness in Maura's case, even if that's a friend that may have talked to her. I mean, anybody. I just imagine it would be terrifying to come forward, at least from what I've seen online. But I would love to get your take on what you think this community is doing to these possible witnesses or persons of interest? Yeah, it happened. It started happening about 10 years ago where real sources felt alienated and they stopped coming forward. They stopped speaking publicly.

55:12And then all of a sudden, now there was suspicion because they don't want to talk to a certain person. Now we need to look into them as a suspect. And it's just crazy talk and people are afraid and they don't want to be the content of the next blog post. Um, and that goes for witnesses. It goes for, um, um, people giving tips. It goes for people supporting my family. Um, so, uh, you know, I, I don't need to tell you this, but, um, every single person in my family has been publicly humiliated, to the point where there's nothing left. Like every speeding ticket, every misstep and every single person in my family has been posted online, posted online.

56:00And so once you've exhausted all of that, the tactic now is to go into the history and anyone that supports my family and start exposing them. So let's publicly humiliate anyone that wants to support this family of a missing girl. And it's sick. And people are like, oh, no, I'm not going near the Mara Murray case, because, you know, I got this, you know, drunken public citation back in 1987 that I don't want put out there. And, you know, at this point, I don't blame them. And it's not fair. And it's hurting my sister. You know, it's hurting the investigation, because now we've got these potential missing puzzle pieces floating around that are people are afraid to speak up about.

56:53And then you've got these other people that aren't afraid and they just speak up about whatever. And it's total speculation. And now law enforcement has to go spend resources they don't have, money they don't have, time they don't have just nothing. And it's, it's exhausting. Yeah, I mean, it all just draws focus away from Maura. And I mean, you know, from the creator side of things, absolutely. I mean, when I put I forget exactly what I posted on Twitter about the case, I posted something and immediately I got so many messages and emails that was like, be careful about the Maura Murray case, even if you don't cover it, if you just talk about it, people are going to look into your past, they're going to dig things up.

57:38And I'm like, do it. Honestly, I can't. And maybe because I'm in a different position, I obviously empathize with what you're going through. It's absolutely insane. And it's absolutely scary. Other creators have told me too, don't touch that case. It's not worth it. It's not worth the drama. And at the end of the day, all I see is Maura. I see Maura and I see the fact that there is so much drama, for lack of a better word. There's so much just crap around her case that has nothing to do with actually finding out what happened to her. And I think that that's what's so sad. What's so sad is that we have to sit here for an hour or whatever today and talk about this instead of talk about her case.

58:17But I do feel like it needs to be addressed. And I'm hoping that by us addressing it, it might give them, I don't know, more of a sympathetic lens that we're real people and that you're a real person. And I don't get the feeling from you that you're ungrateful at all. Like, I'm sure that you're extremely grateful for all of this talk about Maura. I mean, she is, I mean, this case is one of the most popular cases in true crime. There's no getting around it. And I think a lot of that is because of this kind of crazy community that surrounds her. But in the end, it's kind of cannibalizing the case in a way.

58:52I mean, I don't even know what's straight, you know what I mean? I go on there and I'm like, oh, I didn't know about that. And I find myself going down rabbit holes. I'm like, wait a second. You know what I mean? You have to kind of pull yourself back and think about, is this actually helping the case or is this just disparaging someone for no reason? Why am I interested in this? Is it because it's dramatic? I just, I can't get away from this feeling that people think that you're ungrateful when it seems to me like you just want to get the focus back on Maura. This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios new comedy, Ella McKay.

59:27From Academy Emmy Award-winning writer-director James L. Brooks. Emma Mackey plays Ella McKay, an idealistic young woman who juggles family and work in a story about the people you love and how to survive them. Featuring an all-star cast, including Jamie Lee Curtis, Jack Loudon, Kumail Nanjiani, Iowa Debris, Julie Kaffner, with Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson. Ella McKay, now playing. Meet the computer you can talk to with Copilot on Windows, working, creating, and collaborating is as easy as talking. Got writer's block? Share your screen with Copilot Vision to help spark inspiration and use Copilot Voice to have a conversation and brainstorm ideas.

1:00:08Or maybe you need some tech help. With Copilot Vision, Copilot sees what you see. Let Copilot talk you through step-by-step guidance so you can master new apps, games, and skills faster. Try now at windows.com slash copilot. Yeah, I mean, anyone that's spent any time with me knows that I am so grateful. And I don't I don't I don't even feel entitled to my own sister's case. And I want people to talk about it. And when you have a missing missing person case, you need people to talk about it. You need it to be in the public eye. So there's been plenty of people out there that have put themselves out on a ledge and said, I'm going to I'm going to, you know, take one for the team and put myself out here and talk about this missing woman.

1:00:57And I am so appreciative that I am equally as appreciative of those type of people as the ones that are anonymous and that are by my side all the time and who I've established great friendships with and who I trust. And it's hard to trust people because, especially with the toxicity in my sister's community and the online banter back and forth, you could write an email to one person and all of a sudden your email is posted online and it's just that lack of trust. And so I have a very small group that I that I do trust. And that's sad, too, because I've got this huge community, but I'm sort of afraid myself.

1:01:50And it shouldn't be that way. I mean, all the facts and everything that we know should be on the table and there should be no fear of being exploited for that. so it's not only exploiting Mara herself my family but anyone trying to help and it just doesn't make sense and I think it goes back to these egos in in these communities that we have where people think they have a sense of entitlement in this case is mine and if there's anything to be known. It's going to come from me. And I want, I want the story. And, you know, my sister was a real person. I'm a real person. It's more than a story. Um, so when you start to rationalize clicks over morality and humanity, you create a situation where you've got all these trolling behaviors and, um, it's hard to control once it starts.

1:02:50And I think that's kind of where we are with it now. I agree. Yeah. And the ownership over this case is really strong. And ownership and true crime is something I've spoken about publicly about many cases. You know what I mean? It's something that happens to a lot of cases, unfortunately. But it's just for me, it's so wrong to covet it like that. Because if we want a real talk right now and talk about who was there first, it wasn't any of these creators. It's the family. Who's been dealing with the police since day one? The family. Who's been dealing with all these persons of interest since day one?

1:03:23The family. Who knew them before all of this media exposure? Who knew them before this case even happened? The family. Those are really important things that I think creators forget about. And I think that they kind of swoop in and do a bunch of research and then assume that they're the authority. I had the same thing happen with my sister's case. You know what I mean? I had a journalist be credited for all of the media attention after my father was arrested. And it's like, I do believe it was a combined effort, right? But I was the one putting in, I mean, honestly, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours to try to get this media exposure.

1:04:01And it's not that I want the credit. It's that I think it's really toxic for creators to take any type of ownership over these cases to say, I've put in X amount of hours. I'm the authority on it. I own it. That's not right. That's somebody's story. And if you look at like a historian, right? Somebody who is the end all be all on, let's just say, Susan B. Anthony, right? That person still doesn't own Susan B. Anthony's story. I don't care if this is a historian that has worked on it for 40, 50 years. I don't care if they were there, you know, the day she was born. I mean, maybe that's a little bit different, but you know what I mean?

1:04:36It doesn't matter how much you research a case. You don't own these stories and you don't own these people. So I don't know why people act like that. I mean, my God, you even said it. You don't own your sister's story. I don't feel that I own my sister's story. So why are people who have never met our family members acting like they own this story, acting like they're the reason for all these breaks in the case? I think it's really selfish. And I think that anybody who says that they own any true crime case is also a toxic person because it's a huge effort. The reason that Morris case is so big isn't because of one creator or one podcast or one book or whatever it might be.

1:05:16It's this huge effort of so many people coming together and caring and talking about it. So I can't with ownership in the true crime community. I think it's really sick and it's really toxic and I don't think it helps anyone. I don't think that one person should be the end all be all for any case. I don't think I should be the end all be all for my sister's case. Like go out to many sources. That's the beauty in this true crime community is that so many people can contribute. So why we're leaning on one creator for one case has never, never made sense to me. Yeah, I agree. And in my sister's case, we have people that have literally written themselves into the story.

1:06:01And so now, you know, when you're a reporter and we'll use your Susan B. Anthony example, you know, you don't write yourself into Susan B. Anthony's life, you know, you report on it. and so we have a little bit of an issue there with Mara's case because people want to you know it's a cash cow and they want to you know use her for their launching point for their careers and they write themselves into the story I just I can't wrap my head around it how people don't see that that is so hurtful and so wrong but here I am you know reading stories about you know, people that who are victims in my little sister's missing person case, you know, it's crazy.

1:06:52Yeah, the focus just gets shifted. And I think you brought up a good point. You know, you say that more as a cash cow, and I feel the same way about my sister's case, I want to, I want to ask you, how do you feel knowing that? I mean, I obviously don't have the real numbers, but I imagine that people have made upwards of hundreds of thousands of dollars off of your sister's case, if not more, how does that make you feel? Well, it would make me feel better if the monetizing of her case was with her best interest in mind. So if it was Mara centered, you know, victim centered, you know, raising awareness, you keeping her best interest at the heart of whatever content you're creating and selling.

1:07:40And, um, that would be fine. I don't have a problem with that. No, I don't have problem with people, um, making a living off of creating awareness for missing people, um, and family members. The problem is when, um, it becomes about them and the victim is exploited and the family members are exploited for no reason. Um, Um, and that's what I feel happened to tomorrow. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I see a few different people who I feel insert themselves into Maura's case. I mean, why do you, why do you think they do that? If you had to guess, uh, for attention, um, for to make themselves, you know, I, I truly believe that almost all of them came in with pure intentions of, Hey, I think I can be the one to solve this.

1:08:37That's great. I want hundreds of people that, that have that motivation and that drive, please. I welcome them all. Let's all try to solve this. Um, but when it starts to become that territorial side and now it's power and it's influence and it's, um, it, you know, it, it, it becomes something more about, it becomes the story is more about them than it is about Mara. And it's ego driven and it lacks empathy. So if any of these people had ever said, you know what, I made a mistake. Let me take hold myself to account. Let me correct the record or, you know, say, admit I was wrong. And here's why.

1:09:23And it's corrected. And I apologize. And let's move forward. I would be okay with that too. But that doesn't happen. Because the egos are so big. Um, and of course, you know, I've had people that have admitted to me privately, Hey, I screwed up and I want to apologize for any pain that I caused. And I really appreciate that. Um, because I, you know, we're not perfect. I'm not perfect. I'm, I make mistakes all the time. Um, I, uh, you know, I don't know if you follow the crazy drama lately, but you know, I did a, I put a thumbs up on a private message because I get hundreds of them. And I felt like it was like the thumbs up heard around the true crime world.

1:10:08It was like shocking that I acknowledged something. Just saying I got it. I didn't even read it. And that was a huge deal. And so now I've got to like make sure that I don't touch my phone at night or, you know, I don't butt dial somebody or something like that. And that's not the way that it should be. But back to my point is, you know, we're all going to make mistakes and content providers included family members. But as long as you're a big enough person to admit, hey, I screwed up and I want to correct the record, that's fine. But for Mars case, people are not willing to do that. Yeah, I don't I don't understand how people are so hesitant to say, like, I'm so sorry I messed up.

1:10:56I've done that plenty of times, my goodness. As much as I speak about ethics and true crime, I'm the first person to say, I'm not perfect. We are all evolving and growing every single day because, hi, that's life. That's what happens. You have new experiences and you change. So it really does kind of drive me crazy that people can't just have that humility and say, hey, I think I did something wrong. I'm sorry. Maybe you guys shouldn't do the same thing. thing that's also kind of the responsibility of being an influencer which I take really seriously like we were talking about earlier but I hate the word influencer but I do influence people in their actions and there is responsibility that comes along with that and I wish more people would take that seriously but it also goes back to what you were saying about like the thumbs up message is you're not an influencer Julie at least I don't you don't define yourself as one I don't see you as one you're not putting out your own content like I said you're not building up these massive social platforms to help raise awareness, which I mean, I don't blame you for.

1:11:55I totally get it. I don't feel like you should be held to an influencer standard. And, you know, to your point, you're getting, you know, at least 100 messages a month, if not more. I do the same thing where you kind of skim it. You don't read the whole thing. You might put a heart or a thumbs up. And then people are publicly posting this. And it's like, OK, like so you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. You want me to respond. But if I respond, you're going to put that online and you're going to scrutinize it to death. You're going to overanalyze it to death when a thumbs up to you was just like, great, got your message.

1:12:24Thanks for caring. Bye. And you didn't think anything of it. And now people are kind of holding it against you. So I just, I think you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. I think people are either going to see you as non-responsive or I just, it just makes me feel terrible for you because I felt this, I felt like I've been in similar situations, damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. So what do you do besides live your life and try to navigate it the best you can?

1:12:56Yeah, I mean, it's definitely difficult. And I just, I want people to know if I'm, if I'm responding to something, I'm going to put words to it or put a voice to it. You know, that wasn't a response to anything. I don't, you know, I don't understand why I got so much flack for that. Um, but it's fine. Like I, you know, I, I can handle it. Um, but again, you know, it's, it's like, it's like walking on eggshells. And if I feel that way, how do other people feel that support my family, um, that, um, have reached out to help, but are like, Oh, please don't like mention my name. Um, it's sad. Yeah, it is.

1:13:41I mean, I think that there's an expectation for family members to walk into this space knowing we're going to get hurt and knowing that we're going to be criticized. I mean, it just and it comes down to, well, don't you care enough? Like, you know, why don't you care? Aren't you grateful? Oh, you're not grateful. Maybe she's suspicious. It's this it's this huge. And, you know, so you're and it's laughable. Like we're not laughing because we think it's funny. I'm sure. I mean, I'm I apologize. I'm not trying to speak for you. But I think these things are kind of hilarious because it always goes down the same path.

1:14:10Why isn't she grateful? Oh, that looks suspicious to me. And it's like, dude, like we are just people trying to navigate this space. And maybe today on a Tuesday at 11 a.m., I don't feel like fighting with you or whatever. Like I just it just it breaks my heart because I feel like there's kind of no winning. And we walk into these spaces knowing that we're just going to be picked apart and criticized. And I feel very fortunate. I feel like I've been kind of blessed in a way that, you know, my sister was 17. I was so young. I didn't get a lot of the brunt that I see you get. So I just want to make that totally clear as I do feel like I have, I do have a privilege in this space and that I've avoided a lot of that.

1:14:49Not all of it. I've certainly seen my share. But it's just, I mean, do you feel the same way? I feel like family members are just walking into the space knowing they're going to be, that it's going to be even harder than just dealing with the normal situation. Yeah, I mean, I know I'm going to get attacked. I know, after this podcast, someone's going to say I use the wrong word or my phrasing was, you know, suspicious, or maybe I'm hiding something. I mean, come on, guys, like, I'm looking for my little sister, I don't know where she is. I don't know what happened to her. I am not trying to protect somebody that did her harm.

1:15:26Okay? Like, why would I do that? Why would I? Why would I put myself through all this pain and suffering? and put myself out there like this. If I'm like, I really know what happened to her and, you know, I'm hiding things. Come on. Like that's that clickbait mentality. That's the tabloid headline. That's not real life. That's not what I'm doing here. Trust me. You know, I wish I had some answers. I don't. And, you know, it's unfortunate as family members that we have to go through this. And, um, but it is, it is one of those things. And some family members, like, you know, we spoke about earlier, some family members don't have the resources or aren't equipped to be able to speak out.

1:16:11Um, and I feel like I am, and I am able to, um, I have a, you know, I, I, you know, take the high road. And, um, even when I do that, like I could, I could say some stuff, you know, but I don't, I don't. Um, but you should see my, my draft folder. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. I hope, you know, and that's one of the things I do, you know, I write out what I feel and then I delete it. Um, because it's not helping us find our missing loved ones. And so, um, I'm, I usually am very measured and show great restraint. Um, But I'm lucky that I have the emotional intelligence to do so because not everyone does.

1:16:56And, you know, pick me apart all you want. You know, put me on Twitter and tell me, you know, I'm hiding all these secrets and I actually don't want to find my sister. That's been said. You know, people have said, I don't want, Julie doesn't want to find her sister. Are you kidding me? Sorry. and we're kind of reaching the end here where I feel like I'm ready to be on tangents and talk about whatever we we haven't talked about before we get to how to get back on more which is how I want to end this but yeah I mean you're exactly right I've I've seen the same things I had someone on TikTok make make over a hundred videos about me and my sister and talk about how I never wanted to find her body because um somehow if I find her body I stop making money uh you know in some way that made sense in his head or whatever.

1:17:47And it's just, it's disgusting. And I don't think people realize how much we go through yet. We still show up online. We know that we're just going to get beat up all day, every day, yet we do it for the cause. We do it for our sisters. We do it because that's what we feel is right. As opposed to content creators that can walk away at any time, they can walk away, no strings attached. They don't have to go to family reunions and avoid, the topic. They don't have to see headlines and be triggered. They don't have to wonder what this person's going to put out next about my family member. Is it correct?

1:18:20Is it not correct? That everyday worry and just lingering in the back of your head isn't there for creators. They are free to walk away anytime. But even if we walk away from social media, we're not really ever free of these cases. They always live in our heads. And I just wish people understood more of what it takes to really have an online presence in these cases. And again, you get it so much worse than I do, but I commend you for showing up for her every day. I mean, I've seen a lot of families who try to speak out publicly and then they walk away because it's too hard because it adds more trauma on top of the trauma.

1:18:56And why put yourself through that? You know, I totally respect and understand people who say my family member who's missing or murdered wouldn't want me to have to go through this again. I'm going to walk away. I think it's for the best of everything, you know, for everything. And I don't blame them for a second. And I wish that there were more people that understood that so we can foster a more caring community for when these families want to come out and speak because it's, it's really scary and it is really hurtful sometimes. And I just, I hate that it is that way.

1:19:28Yeah. And we need the family members to speak about the, the human behind the story in most cases, you know, for my sister, she's widely seen, but, you know, nobody knows her like I do. Um, and it's the same for, you know, Alyssa, no one knew Alyssa better than you. Um, and it's the same story over and over with all these other families. We need to be more empathetic, show more compassion for family members, give them the space and the support that they deserve to speak about their loved ones as humans and not as clickbait and, you know, in my case, villains. I think we're headed in the right direction.

1:20:24I I think there's sort of a slow churning of this movement and people are kind of realizing the more that we talk about it. So I think you I've called you a true crime hero multiple times because you're not afraid. I mean, I was blown away when I listened to how you just went in like a boss to the police department and you just like handled yourself with such composure. I'm like, she is a badass. So I think the true crime space is very, very lucky to have you. So, you know, I, I want, you've inspired me to take sort of that same approach with law enforcement in my own sister's case, because, you know, law enforcement in my sister's case is a big black hole.

1:21:18They don't tell me anything. We sued them. They don't give us any records. We don't know what the progress is. And, you know, similar to you, there was a change of personnel, like right, right there. Like all of a sudden the lead detective is not the lead detective anymore. No, same thing happened to me recently, very recently. And I'm like, what do you mean the lead detective isn't there anymore? Why am I getting these returned emails from who I've been communicating with for over five years. He's just gone. And nobody told me not, not any sort of courtesy, not any, Hey, you know, I wish I could have done more or, you know, I'm leaving nothing just to return to send her email.

1:22:03That's what I got. So that's insane. Yeah. I mean, at least you got a, an email from, um, detective Anderson saying, Hey, you know, I've been reassigned or, you know, whatever the case was. But there's, there's situations like mine where you don't get that courtesy. And I'm unsure why. And then I start to think, like, is it because of the media attention and all this craziness that's happening on the internet that is now affecting the way law enforcement is treating my family? So does law enforcement now believe the tabloid blogger about, you know, how my family is this horrible clandestine group where we sit in a basement and plot how to, I don't know, who knows, like distract and tell lies and keep secrets.

1:22:57I don't know. The amount of time and planning that would go into that, my goodness. Oh my God. I know. So, you know, I'm on another tangent, but I just wanted to say that, you know, I've, I've seen and I've heard, and you've inspired me, um, with your approach with, you know, no bullshit. I'm just going to roll in like a boss and demand answers. And I think more family members need to start doing that and hold, especially public officials, um, hold them to the line, you know, give us an update. What are you doing? Um, and then, And, you know, and everything we've talked about so far about holding content creators to some sort of degree of ethics and morality and what they provide.

1:23:46And the more family members and the more you and I start standing up and doing that and people see us leading in this way, I think consumers will follow suit, I hope. No, I totally agree. Well, first, I just want to say, like, you're one of my heroes. I was like, you're one of the first people I saw in the space. I was like, damn, I want to be like her. Like she, I think you're a boss. Like you were in the military. Like you, you're, you're a boss. Like I, I went into those meetings shaking. I am the person that like won't return my food if it's like completely wrong. Like I am a thousand percent of that person.

1:24:19Like, no, it's fine. Like, don't even worry about it. It's like, you have to kind of become this person for your loved one. You know, when I spoke with police, I'm like, what would Alyssa do? You know what I mean? She wouldn't back down. She would fight with facts. She would be a badass. And that's kind of what I embodied. But I worked with kids. Like I said, I was that person who wouldn't even return food. I hated social media. I was afraid to leave my house for several years. I think people don't realize that. I didn't have an early 20s. I didn't go out to clubs. I was terrified. I had really bad social anxiety.

1:24:52So I had to overcome so much to do this for my sister, and I don't regret it for a second. But I just want to kind of say that I wasn't born like this. You kind of become this person because of your circumstances. You adapt and you evolve. But talking about adapting and evolving and going back to your point of consumers seeing what's going on and things changing, I truly believe that. I was in marketing in a past life or whatever now. And it's conscious consumerism is a thing that is growing in every single realm. Look at all these documentaries about the ocean. You know what I mean? Look at people boycotting seafood.

1:25:30Look at even just people wanting to pick more green products. Is this recyclable? You know, all of that trickles over to everything. Most consumers want to feel good about what they purchase. They don't want to think that it's, you know, hurting kids or it comes from a sweatshop or it's hurting the environment or animals are treated horribly. I mean, I know that there's plenty of people who just don't care. But, you know, studies show that people are caring more and more about this conscious consumerism. And that is trickling over to true crime. I don't think that you see things reported quite like they used to be reported.

1:26:04You know, it used to be like, it's just all these sensational headlines, right? Like rebellious teenager leaves stepfather from, you know, abusive household coming up next at nine or, you know, a pregnant wife leaves after suspicions against the husband. Like it's, people don't like that anymore. They want to connect with these people. They want to connect with the victims. They want to know that they're being treated correctly. I just I think that this style of true crime where it, you know, no offense to Lifetime, but kind of sounds like an old Lifetime movie where it's very sensational. It's very over the top.

1:26:39It's very dramatic for no good reason. You're going down rabbit holes on topics that the creator is well aware doesn't work out right. Like the blood on the shirt and we'll talk about it for 20 minutes and it ends up being animal blood. And it's like, come on. I just I see that consumers are tolerating that less and less. And I just think that we're going to look back in 10 years or so and people are going to think, what the hell was going on in true crime? Why did people find this acceptable? I mean, you see the same thing happening with YouTube right now. Like, I don't know how much of YouTube you watch or like how much you're up to date with these influencers, but people are going back to these mega, mega stars and influencers.

1:27:19somebody like Shane Dawson, for example, you know, like millions and millions of followers and has been huge on YouTube for a decade or whatever. People are going back and they're like, wait a second, that content wasn't okay. Like none of that is okay. What are we thinking? And they're, they're getting held accountable now. And I truly think that in the next decade or so, we're going to see a huge wave of that happen with true crime. People are going to look back and say, why did we tolerate this? And how did we tolerate this? People are actually getting hurt by these actions and I consumed it and now I feel bad.

1:27:52I just, I think it's going to take a little bit of time. I think it's a little bit slow coming, but I think it will happen for true crime. I mean, there is no other genre in which you can be so sensational about such a delicate topic. I've, I've dug deep into like serial killer merch, for example, you know, I'm sure you've seen posts about it, right? There's these horrific t-shirts that's like choke me like Bundy and eat me like Dahmer or whatever, like just really gross stuff. And if you look at any other tragedy, that doesn't happen, right? If you Google true crime t-shirt, you will find the most horrific stuff.

1:28:28If you Google Boston bombing t-shirt, you don't find that. If you Google Sandy Hook tragedy t-shirt, you don't find that. Why is it in the true crime space once it enters this realm that we feel that we can be sensational about it in that way, that we feel we can joke about it. You know, everybody said, it's just a joke. It's just a joke. It is, but at the expense of who? At the expense of these victims, it's a gross joke. And I'm not saying we need to be totally PC and you have to stop hurting people's feelings. Like, you know, I feel like I have a pretty good middle ground of that, but these things are really unacceptable.

1:29:03Like in no world would anybody be able to walk around this earth in a September 11th t-shirt mocking the victims. Yet we do that in true crime and you're told to chill out. You're told to calm down. You're told it's just a joke. Why is it when we enter this true crime sphere that it's like anything goes and we can joke about anything? I just, I don't understand how we've gotten here and I hope that we get away from it. But I think it's truly only something that happens in true crime as opposed to other tragedies, if you will. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think, you know, I never thought of it the way that you described about like walking around in a 9-11 shirt, but that's just unacceptable.

1:29:50I think part of the problem is most of true crime creators are a single person, maybe two people, and they act as the researchers, the interviewers, the producers, the editors, the HR department, like they're, they have complete total control. So there's not a whole lot of guidelines. There's no legal department saying, I don't think that's, I don't think that's ethical. And so when you're sort of in that, you've got that tunnel vision where you're, you're not objective anymore and and you're, you know, infatuated with the killers instead of the victims, it's a dangerous place to be. And, you know, on a smaller scale, I see it in Mara's case, where there's an infatuation with the peripheral people.

1:30:47And people are obsessed with all these people on the periphery, who are not part of the story that are not part of the case. Um, and it's this power struggle and it's like, why are you infatuated with these, these people on the side on Twitter and all this stuff? Um, but I mean, you, you raise a great point that that's got to change. Um, and, um, you know, I, I think that, you know, we can do our small part and trying to help that make that change, but we're going to need the whole community, the whole true crime community, and all the consumers will be like, you know what, let's ditch the Ted Bundy.

1:31:28I love Ted Bundy t-shirts. It's not okay. Yeah. And we'll get there. I mean, I think that there will always be a sect of people who enjoy that old school true crime, if you will, that more sensational. And I get it. Like, I kind of have to respect where we've come from and how we've grown and how we've developed. And it's hard for me to say I have to respect it, but I do. You know, I get it. I respect it. I try to understand it. But I think you used a really good word there, which is infatuation, which I think is what has really happened in Maura's case. It went beyond caring and wanting to solve it and wanting to help with just being infatuated with it, which, you know, to try to not go on any more tangents, which I certainly do enjoy with you, maybe we'll have to do just like a tangent, you know, episode sometime.

1:32:12But that would be, that'd be so we'd get in so much trouble. But, um, you know, I want to talk about, ask you, how can we get the focus back on Maura, the get away from this infatuation and more of just the focus on the facts and wanting to figure out what happened and spreading awareness in a positive way? Yeah, the first thing we need to do is to realize that it's, we're talking about a real person, not a character. Um, you know, like I said earlier, Mara has become this unrecognizable character. I don't even recognize her. Uh, and that's a shame. And, um, the more that my family can speak of, of her as a real person, more empathy we can allow into this space.

1:32:57Um, the more people are going to be like, Oh, maybe I shouldn't, you know, slut shame Mara, a 21 year world for, you know, having sex, like, come on, like, what are we doing here? Um, and I think we're getting there. I think people's eyes are starting to open a bit just in, in Mara's little community. Um, but it goes for true crime as a whole, um, realizing that there is a real person here, uh, realizing that there's a real family left behind in the wake of a tragedy, um, And treating those people with just basic respect. Because right now, I mean, I don't feel like my family has been respected.

1:33:44We haven't been shown the humility that I think we deserve from many, many of the so-called authorities in my sister's case. So I hope to change that. But it is going to take some time. and I'm going to do my part in that and see where it goes. Yeah. Well, hopefully this conversation helps. I mean, who knows? We might just be feeding the trolls, but I think it's a risk worth taking. It needs to be talked about. I'm sick of it being in the shadows. I really am. I'm sick of it being like family members need to shut up and be grateful because we can be grateful while also saying, hey, I don't like that.

1:34:23Hey, I think that that's not the best thing for the case. That's okay. I don't know why we're not allowed to say those things. So again, maybe this is just troll fuel, but I wanted to just talk to you about it and get it on the record and get your side of things because I feel like you're demonized a lot and I feel like people aren't really listening to you. So I hope that, I don't know, hopefully this makes a small difference. I don't know if it will, but those are kind of my hopes and dreams for this episode. yeah well I mean it felt good to talk about it it feels good to talk about it with somebody that knows what I'm talking about and can empathize and relate to some of the struggles and challenges that I've I've faced um so I just thanks thank you for the opportunity to to do this and I hope to collaborate and do something again oh absolutely I mean for I will forever be in your inbox, Julie.

1:35:21I feel like we've been talking on Twitter for like years now or whatever. But yeah. So I do want to say for anybody out there listening, maybe a content creator, please don't be afraid to cover Maura's case. I don't think that that's what Julie wants. And again, I'm speaking for you and you're literally right here. But I mean, I would assume at this point that you would encourage other creators to cover her case. Like it's don't be afraid of the backlash. It's just don't be afraid. Please just think of Maura first is kind of what I would like to, you know, impart with everybody. Yeah, I, I agree.

1:35:54And I encourage people to reach out to me directly. And I can, you know, talk about Mara, I, I know Mara, I grew up with her, we shared a room together. I have some amazing stories and insights. And she's not this monster that you read about on these blogs. And she was a wonderful, you know, multidimensional human who had her flaws. And I am always more than willing to talk about that. And then also the actual facts of the case. And, you know, that's what we need more of. And I think that's what's best for Mara and her legacy. and I hope one day to find that missing puzzle piece to where we can solve it.

1:36:43But it's going to take people who are not afraid to come forward with information that they might not. My name is Percy Jackson. Getting in trouble is like breathing for me. The hit series returns to Disney Plus and Hulu. The danger the camp is under is greater than you can possibly imagine. For the key to our survival, three of you must quest to the sea of monsters. Let's go do the impossible. I'm not going to let some stupid monster stand in my way. Percy Jackson and the Olympians. New season now on Disney Plus and Hulu. Learn more at DisneyPlus.com slash what's on. Running a business comes with a lot of what ifs.

1:37:23But luckily, there's a simple answer to them. Shopify. It's the commerce platform behind millions of businesses, including Thrive Cosmetics and Momofuku. And it'll help you with everything you need. From website design and marketing, to boosting sales and expanding operations, Shopify can get the job done and make your dream a reality. Turn those what-ifs into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. Absolutely. Absolutely. Before we close out, is there anything else you wanted to say? Any other tangents you wanted to go on? Anything at all? I mean, I could go on forever.

1:38:02But no, I mean, I think we hit home the major points And I think it's pretty clear that, you know, there needs to be some sort of ethics in this space. And I'm going to do my part. And I thank you. And yeah, I look forward to chatting again. Absolutely. All right. Thank you, Julie. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. I truly hope this conversation helped clear the air a little so we can get the focus back on Maura. Again, I know so many of you care about this case, and I thank you for that. The bottom line is, Maura still needs coverage. She still needs help. For more information about Maura's case and how you can help, please visit mauramurraymissing.org.

1:38:49Maura Murray was last seen on February 9, 2004, in Haverhill, New Hampshire. She is a white female with brown hair and green eyes. She is approximately 5 foot 7 inches tall and weighed 120 pounds when she went missing. Anyone with information is urged to call the New Hampshire State Police at 603-846-3333. But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.

1:39:21Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney. For more information about the podcast, to suggest a case, to see resources used for this episode, and to find out more about how to help the cases I discuss, visit VoicesForJusticePodcast.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review the show in your podcast player. It really does help more people find the podcast and these cases in need of justice.

1:39:55Thank you.