Nancy Guthrie Part 2

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28:27Everything is happening at what feels like lightning speed in Nancy's case. Just hours after law enforcement and the head of the FBI announced that they'd recovered video and shared it with the public, they had a person in custody to be questioned about the case. Everything was a bit hush-hush at first, but we later learned that the man was Carlos Palazuelos. He's a delivery driver who was apprehended during a traffic stop about 60 miles south of Tucson, in the unincorporated community of Rio Rico, Arizona. This is just north of the Mexico border. But it seems that the media may have been tipped off about this potential lead, with reporters stating that law enforcement informed them of where to stage in Rio Rico for a potential conclusion of Nancy's case.

29:11One newsroom even tracked a helicopter traveling between Rio Rico and a Tucson hospital, stating it may be transporting Nancy Guthrie. This was huge, and it was everywhere. But the following day, Wednesday, February 11th, we got a little more clarity into this situation. Carlos and his family speak to the media. He says he didn't know why he was taken into custody, but assumes it's because they thought his eyes were similar to that of the man in the video. He adds that they delayed in reading him his Miranda rights, took DNA from him, and that they were searching his mother-in-law's property in Rio Rico where he lives as well as a vehicle.

29:53He also staunchly declared his innocence, and he appears to have been telling the truth. It seems law enforcement got that DNA testing done in a matter of hours, which is insane, because this same day, he was cleared by law enforcement. Sheriff Nano stated that this was just standard practice in any investigation, but that didn't do much for Carlos and his family. He's since told reporters that he's been followed during his delivery shifts, and is still being scrutinized by the public as possibly being involved in Nancy's case. The next day, Tuesday the 12th, is when authorities released the description of the man in the video that I shared with you earlier, but they also announced that they have doubled their reward for information from$50 ,000 to$100 ,000.

30:41That same day, they also found a glove on the side of the road about a mile and a half from Nancy's home and appeared to match the gloves the suspect was wearing in the video. But I won't keep you hanging here. It took a while, but they were able to track down the owner of the glove. They determined it belonged to a restaurant employee who was later cleared. In fact, according to reporting by CBS News, investigators have collected about 16 gloves that we're aware of in this investigation. But there's a complication here. The FBI has confirmed that most of them belong to searchers who discarded their gloves while working in the area.

31:18So take that for what you will. Even with multiple episodes on Nancy's case, it's clear that what we know is just the tip of the iceberg. But on Friday the 13th, we get some more crucial information. Investigators say that they do have DNA collected from Nancy's home that doesn't belong to her, or people known to be close to or in contact with her. They didn't state where it was found on the property, what it was, or really much else. Then there was another huge media storm when a home less than two miles from Nancy's house was visited by a Pima County Sheriff SWAT team. Now, at this point, national and local media, along with social media influencers, bloggers, whatever you want to call them, were stationed outside of Nancy's home and the surrounding area.

32:08I mentioned it briefly in part one, but I really want to set the scene that everything happening in or around this area was being watched and scrutinized. So when the SWAT team descends on this home, it becomes public knowledge pretty much immediately. And this was confirmed by the sheriff's department. They posted that law enforcement activity was underway at a residence near East Orange Grove Road and North First Avenue, and said the activity was related to the Guthrie case. Because this was a joint investigation with the FBI, the department said that no additional information was available at this time.

32:43But according to the people on the scene, this was very significant. The roads were blocked off, they had SWAT vehicles, and multiple outlets reported that a federal search warrant had been executed at that home based on a lead. And there were reports that three people were detained during the operation. But Sheriff Chris Nanos later said that no arrests had been made and no one was in custody. Law enforcement also emphasized that people may be temporarily detained during the execution of a search warrant, and that doesn't necessarily mean that they're being accused of a crime. A neighbor later told the New York Times that the home belonged to an older woman who lived there with her adult son.

33:24According to that neighbor, the woman was distraught and stayed at his home while investigators searched her residence. He said she didn't know why investigators were focused on the house and had no information about Nancy's disappearance. Around the same time, authorities also focused on a gray Range Rover in a nearby Culver's parking lot. Investigators were seen searching and photographing the vehicle before it was towed away. Now this all happens at night over the course of about four hours. And while that was unfolding, some people reported that the owner of the home had died by suicide. So that's how the media was reporting it in the moment.

34:05Similar to what we saw with Carlos Palazuelos, a lot of media positioned this as potentially the conclusion of Nancy's case. But here's what we know now. The residents of the home were identified as 37-year-old Luke Daly and his 77-year-old mother, Mary Chaplin Daly. They were removed from the home and detained for questioning. They were both placed in two separate police cars while being questioned. But after many hours, they were released without any arrests being made. A few weeks later, they sat down for their very first interview with Brianna Whitney of AZ Family. I'm going to play for you guys what Luke Daly says.

34:46It's caused a lot of uproar, and instead of describing it and risking the chance of inserting any of my own bias or misinterpreting what he says, I'm just going to play the interview for you. It's about 13 minutes long if you want to skip it, but I do think it's worth listening to. So here is what Luke Daly says.

35:34anything. I mean, I, like everyone else, just want Nancy to come home and be safe. But that being said, I have nothing to do with this case and that's it. Explain to me what happened on the night you were detained, where you were, you're with your car. How did that unfold in your eyes? So I was driving home. I noticed two sheriff vehicles following me. They pulled me over at the Culver's right there, asked me to get out of the car, didn't tell me what it was about. So they had me cuffed in the back of a cop car, detained. I was asking, like, what am I being detained for? And they wouldn't tell me anything.

36:18They just said that the detectives would be there to talk to me. and once I saw like FBI and all the other cars start pulling in I'm like oh this is probably about the the Guthrie case I'm like this should be easy like I have nothing to do with this so it should be not a big deal to clear my name and move on um but the whole time during the questioning didn't really seem like seemed like more of like a fishing expedition for them to try to get me to say something because all the dates I was telling where I was, things like that. I'm like, all you'd have to do is look at my phone and see my location.

36:59I was nowhere near anywhere or have any connection to this. But still, it was tough being there. I mean, I don't trust the FBI to the extent that I'm thinking that there's pressure on this case and they want to find the person so like the whole time while I'm sitting back the cop car I'm like panicking thinking that I'm gonna be framed for this or they're trying to pin this on me somehow did they tell you what led them to you I mean something made them believe they needed to talk to you about it what was that I asked them they didn't tell me any information about that and I have thought of any type of reason why they um but there's there's nothing and I think that's why they didn't tell me were you in the area of the home at the time like the overnight or would it have been something like we've tracked this person near well I live near her house but I mean I didn't even know that until after the fact like I barely just learned where her actual house was in in relation to mine um so I didn't even know.

38:11Had you ever met her? No. Did you know who she was? I knew who she was because my mother was following the case. But in terms of other than that, I would just go off with what my mother was telling me. And so how long were you detained for? Probably maybe four or five hours. In the back of that car the whole time? And they searched your Range Rover extensively? Yeah, they searched Range Rover, they told my Range Rover, did all DNA testing or whatever, and then gave it back to me. Took my cell phone. I've had no way to get a hold of anyone, which is probably a good thing because everyone's looking at me like I'm this person that I'm not.

38:58So it's been rough. You got your car back? Yes. In rough condition or was it okay? Well, when I went to pick it up, like it wouldn't start. I guess they drained the battery down and it was just covered in whatever white substance that they use for testing. But yeah, then I got it started up and it wasn't, luckily it wasn't damaged in terms of like repairs or anything. So when they released you, what did they say? They say you're free? They say never mind? I mean, what was the verbiage there from them? they had just told me that they were still at my house, so I couldn't go home, but they drove me somewhere near the house and just dropped me off.

39:43I was like, well, I don't have a phone. How am I supposed to figure out when I can go back to the house? They basically said, you're just gonna have to figure that out. So, I mean, I waited just where they dropped me off at for maybe an hour or so. I had a friend that lived near the area and I walked over there, they weren't home. So I was just waiting, basically just on their patio. And then it got to the point where I'm like, well, they should be done by now. I walked back to my house, and this was the worst part for me is getting there and seeing the house torn up. But the worst part was my mom not being there and her being elderly and having AFib and things like that.

40:24I'm thinking the worst. I see her car is here, but she's not there, and I don't have my phone to get a hold of her. so I'm wondering what happened if I need to start calling hospitals or what the deal was. But luckily, I guess she went to one of the neighbors, but I didn't find that out until the next day. Right. You were detained and released, but you've said it. Your face, your name, it's everywhere online. People still believe you were either involved or did this. What's that been like for you to have your name, your picture, even a past mugshot all over the internet associated with this case?

41:03I mean, for me, it's terrible. It's hard to go anywhere. And the hard part is they're making all these assumptions based on things that have absolutely no relevance. And they're just bringing up my past, which I mean, I do have a past, but nothing violent or anything like that. all my past has been involved with using drugs and I haven't been in that life for over two years now um so all the things that they're bringing up it's yeah I guess it's public record but it would never would have came out if it wasn't for all these people speculating and doing things like that so now people that had no idea about my past so I've done like a good job of working past it and not having anything to do with it so them doing that now is kind of just reopening this whole speculation and have me make me out to look like this bad person, which I'm not.

41:59And it's not just been you. People have found, you know, records of an alleged girlfriend of yours. There's been a lot of rumors swirling around. What do you want to say about those rumors, about you, about her, about, you know, everybody that people have looked at and said, well, they could do this. Yeah. First of all, that's not my girlfriend. I barely knew that girl, and I was arrested with her on a completely different circumstance over a year ago. I haven't talked to her since, and I guess they're just going off of the arrest saying that I was arrested with her. But I hardly know her and don't associate with her.

42:38But in terms of everything else, I mean, all the speculation is just going off of— I don't even know if people really believe it, but online it just seems like they're pushing this narrative and trying to make connections with things that are, I don't know, basically like circumstantial. Like saying my eyelashes match the guy in the ski mask picture, which I'm sure like if you could use anyone's picture and find similarities. And you don't recognize the person on that, in that footage? No, I don't. um but in terms of all this like like I said they're they're comparing my face to this they're talking about my Range Rover which I didn't even buy until after um she was reported missing it was a new car yeah for you yeah um they're talking about another car that was towed off my property that car wasn't an accident has nothing to do with this um it wasn't towed in relation to this case um it was being towed by the insurance company to to assume if it was totaled or not So that had nothing to do with the case.

43:45There's no evidence to point towards me other than speculation. You really have no idea what led them to you in this case? Absolutely not. Still a mystery to you? Yes, and I would love to find out. Were you dealing mostly with sheriff's deputies or FBI agents when you were detained? I was detained by the sheriff's, but in terms of all the questions, it was done by the FBI. What would you like to say to both PCSD and the FBI? Basically what I told them before, if there's anything, I'm happy to help. If there actually was something real that I could help them with. But like I said, they had my phone.

44:25They went through my phone. So if it was anything real, they could look through that and clear my name. but in terms of the the collateral damages being part of it there's not really any type of way there's no going back from this for your whole family too i mean your mom has had to go through this too as a family how has this made you guys feel collectively together to kind of be in this public shock this public scrutiny it all just seems like a nightmare i mean it doesn't seem real and it's just been we're all just just it's been it's just been a nightmare um i know my mom she was she uh she has like problem with stress and like she was doing good before this after this she's been a lot more stressed it's been um it's been hard i'll like i'll let her speak to how it's affected her but i mean in terms of collectively as a family it's just been it's been a nightmare You know, what's your message for Nancy Guthrie's family?

45:31I mean, I like everyone else. I want to see her come home. I want the actual suspect to be found. I just, I think it's really unfair to them to give them false hope by going off whatever they went off to to have this huge investigation and raid happen. To me, it's like giving them false hope that something that they had a suspect and then it was nothing and I'm not the first person either so I think it's I think it's wrong in that sense. This is your first interview since you've been detained what's your hope in putting your voice out there now that people will get from this interview? I mean for my my personal interest I would just say just not to go off speculation of everything you hear on the internet and kind of like the hive mind mentality that someone says something and then they just go off of it based on no evidence no truth um but i mean in terms of like moving forward i just want want to be cleared have actual verification that i was cleared by the fbi and sheriff whoever else have they officially cleared you i don't date um this is just going know if I've heard, but I guess I've been cleared, but they don't close any case, I guess, because it's still ongoing.

46:59But I mean, I know personally, there's nothing else they're going to come across that points towards me. Unequivocally, you are not the person you are not involved. Absolutely, 100%. Is there anything else you want to clear up that people may have said that you've seen that you feel that you have the opportunity now to to address um nothing particularly is coming to mind right now um obviously i'm nervous this is like i said my first interview and i mean i'm not trying to to get any more attention from this i just want to put it out there for me that i had nothing to do with this and i'm hoping that the truth will come out whatever that may be i have no idea.

47:46I just want to say again that I hope that she's safe. I hope they find her and I just want to move on with my life and not have any, I mean it's been hard like I can't go anywhere. Everyone gives me dirty looks and they see me in my car like I would assume that like, I don't know, people are just thinking I'm like this person and it's been hard like leaving, going anywhere, doing anything. So I'd like to be able to go about my life and not have this shadow of doubt casted over me. This interview really has caused a lot of uproar in Nancy's case, and the public seems a bit split. Some people believe Luke and his mom, and others don't.

48:31I can say that Luke Daly has not been named a suspect in Nancy's case, and as far as I could find, he has also not been officially cleared. so take that for what you will.

49:11Deep Hop, where taste recognizes taste. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for$15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. The day after Luke and Mary were questioned by police, Savannah Guthrie released another video on her Instagram, speaking directly to the man who took her mother.

49:55I wanted to come on and it's been two weeks since our mom was taken. and I just wanted to come on and say that we still have hope and we still believe. And I wanted to say to whoever has her or knows where she is that it's never too late and you're not lost or alone and it is never too late to do the right thing and we are here and we believe and we believe in the essential goodness of every human being and it's never too late Then on February 16th Sheriff Nanos makes a huge announcement via social media he releases a statement that says, quote, To be clear, the Guthrie family, to include all siblings and spouses, has been cleared as possible suspects in this case.

51:04The family has been nothing but cooperative and gracious and are victims in this case. To suggest otherwise is not only wrong, it is cruel. The Guthrie family are victims, plain and simple. Please, I'm begging you, the media, to honor your profession and report with some sense of compassion and professionalism. End quote. Now, I've touched on it briefly. But in addition to the two men we've seen questioned in this case thus far, public speculation is also heavily focused on Nancy's son, Tommaso, and even her daughter, Annie. So this really was a shocking announcement that many people still don't believe.

51:46But since it's one of the most prevailing theories in this case, let's go over the facts. Tommaso is the last person that we know of to see Nancy alive. At this point, his home and vehicle have been searched. And like Carlos and Luke with a ski mask on, he looks similar to the man in the video. Of course, that is subjective. I mean, personally, you put a ski mask on any three of these men, and they all look like the guy in the video to me. But of course, not all three of them can be that man. And I'd argue that I could probably find a dozen other guys put a ski mask on them, and it looks similar.

52:26And I do want to say that while I have seen speculation as to Tommaso's height, I haven't been able to find a credible source to really confirm that. So like I keep saying, and I think I'm going to have to continue saying in this episode, take all of that for what you will. I know guys, it's not a satisfying answer, but that's the truth, and that's what we have to keep coming back to in this case. But this same day, Sheriff Nanos gives the public a bit more information. He tells CBS News that his team has been sifting through surveillance of local Walmart stores looking for a potential suspect.

53:03They believe the clothing, face mask, and backpacks seen in the video were purchased at Walmart, either online or in-store. Now, specifically, it appears that the Ozark Trail Hiker Backpack is exclusively sold at Walmart, which Nano says is one of their best leads at this point. He also says investigators have deployed a device called a signal sniffer that may be able to detect signals from Nancy's pacemaker to pinpoint her location. But as far as we know, that device was not able to locate Nancy. However, on the 18th, we have another pretty big statement from Sheriff Nanos. He tells BBC News that he thinks Nancy was the victim of a targeted kidnapping and is being held close to her home.

53:50He adds that they're confident that they'll find her, whether it takes 10 days, 10 months, or worse. He adds that they've received about 40 ,000 tips from the public at this point. That's just over two weeks in. And this same day, we circle back to Mexico. Like I told you in the first episode about Nancy, I was pretty shocked when Sheriff Nano said that they hadn't reached out to officials in Mexico to assist in this case, especially just being so close to the border. But a non-profit in Mexico that helps find missing people in U.S. states that border the country reported that they were contacted by a member of the Guthrie family to organize a search.

54:29However, according to reporting by CBS News, Mexico's Federal Security Agency and the prosecutor's office in Sonora state that they have not been contacted to assist. But the following day, on February 19th, CBS News ran another article stating that law enforcement sources inform them that the FBI has been in contact with authorities in Mexico, and they have no reason to believe that she was taken across the border. So again, you guys, take that for what you will. Surprisingly, not a lot happens in the next few days, at least that we know of. But on February 23rd, we get another huge bombshell in this case that I really think changes everything, if it's true.

55:16According to reporting by ABC News who broke this story, quote, sources familiar with the investigation, end quote, told them that the masked man at Nancy's home appears to have been at her front door prior to February 1st. They say that an image released by the FBI showing the man without a backpack on was taken before February 1st, which does line up with the investigators asking the public to check their home surveillance systems for suspicious people or vehicles caught on camera as far back as the beginning of January, a full month before Nancy was taken. To date, they have asked the public to look for video from January 11th, January 24th, January 31st, and February 1st.

56:01But they haven't really told us a lot about why those specific dates earlier in January. While the Pima County Sheriff's Department declined to give a comment in most of the reporting I found, they did release their own statement. Quote, there is no date or time stamp associated with these images. Therefore, any suggestion that the photographs were taken on different days is purely speculative. End quote. So really, what all of this does in this moment is cause a lot of chaos without a lot of answers. And I think we know how this case goes by now. Really, there's something happening almost every single day.

56:40On February 24th, Savannah posts another video to her Instagram announcing a$1 million reward. Hi there. I'm coming on to say it is day 24 since our mom was taken in the dark of night from her bed. And every hour and minute and second and every long night has been agony since then of worrying about her and fearing for her and aching for her and most of all just missing her, just missing her. we know that millions of you have been praying, so many people have been praying of every faith and no faith at all, praying for her return, and we feel those prayers. Please keep praying without ceasing. We still believe.

57:47We still believe in a miracle. We still believe that she can come home.

57:56Hope against hope. As my sister says, we are blowing on the embers of hope.

58:05We also know that she may be lost. She may already be gone. She may have already gone home to the Lord that she loves and is dancing in heaven with her mom and her dad and with her beloved brother Pierce and with our daddy. If this is what is to be, then we will accept it. But we need to know where she is. We need her to come home. For that reason, we are offering a family reward of up to$1 million for any information that leads us to her recovery. All of the information about this reward and the details is in the caption below. You can call the 1-800-TIPLINE. You can be anonymous if you want.

59:17Someone out there knows something that can bring her home. Somebody knows. We are begging you to please come forward now.

59:31We also know that we are not alone in our loss. We know there are millions of families that have suffered with this kind of uncertainty. And for that reason today, we also are donating$500 ,000 to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children for their work in helping families who are coping with loss and actively looking for those who are lost. we are hoping that the attention that has been given to our mom and our family will extend to all the families like ours who are in need and need prayers and need support so please if you hear this message if you've been waiting and you haven't been sure let this be your sign to please come forward tell what you know and help us bring our beloved mom home so that we can either celebrate a glorious, miraculous homecoming or celebrate the beautiful, brave, and courageous and noble life that she has lived.

1:00:50Please be the light in the dark. Thank you.

1:01:00To date, through law enforcement, the Guthrie family, and a private donor, the total reward for information in her case is up to$1.2 million. But things really do seem to slow down at this point. I mean, aside from the speculation. Because of that, a lot of the major news outlets stopped camping in the neighborhood 24-7. Though some did remain along with local news and a variety of bloggers, if you will. By March 3rd, the Sheriff's Department announced that Annie Guthrie's vehicle was being returned to her after being held for weeks for processing. On the 4th is when we get the official news of the glove belonging to the restaurant worker that I told you about earlier.

1:01:45At this point, basically law enforcement says that they've cleared this lead altogether. and near the end of march sheriff nanos revisits the now infamous january 11th statement this has been a huge point of contention in nancy's case and really the lack of transparency from law enforcement hasn't helped much so finally we get this statement from nanos to the news station kold he basically says well we have no way of knowing for sure that the suspect came to nancy's home that night, but that they do believe, quote, something occurred on January 11th, end quote. You know what I'm going to say? Take that for what you will.

1:02:27Around this same time, we get quite a bit of infighting with these law enforcement agencies, with Kash Patel placing blame on Sheriff Nanos for not involving the FBI sooner. Patel states, quote, for four days we were kept out of the investigation, end quote. But Sheriff Nano shot back at Patel, stating that that was just factually incorrect, and they had agents from the FBI on the scene the night Nancy was reported missing. Cash Patel has also criticized the Pima County Sheriff's Department for sending DNA evidence to a private lab instead of the FBI lab in Quantico. Though, as I told you in part one, that lab was publicly confirmed to be working on at least some evidence.

1:03:11But it seems that Patel was referring to hair found at Nancy's home. We didn't really know about this before. It was really just vaguely reported as DNA evidence being tested, but it appears that several hairs were found tangled and sent for testing. Now, all of this has led to an investigation into Sheriff Nanos by the Pima County Board of Supervisors, and even a threat to possibly remove him from his position. But as of this recording, that hasn't happened. Right now, it seems that as one of the highest profile cases to ever hit Arizona, the members of law enforcement responsible for solving it are really just pointing fingers at each other.

1:03:55This episode is brought to you by Palmolive. Family time isn't just the big moments. It's weeknight dinners, sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once. So when the plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palmolive Ultra. Palmolive's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9 % of grease, leaving your dishes sparkling clean. And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier, so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. That's pretty much where we are today. So what happened to Nancy Guthrie? I've walked you through the timeline, the updates, the disputes, and the many statements from her family.

1:04:38Now let's talk about what remains outstanding, then we'll get into potential theories. We don't know for sure that the ransom notes in this case are real. Though I do think it's worth noting that Savannah Guthrie has stated that she believes two of them are real. And as of recording this episode, it's being reported that TMZ is potentially receiving even more ransom notes. though none have been confirmed to be real, been acted upon, or brought Nancy home. The biggest outstanding forensic issue appears to be DNA from Nancy's home. As of right now, no public match has been announced. But law enforcement has also not ruled out the possibility that the masked man may have had help.

1:05:20They haven't confirmed an accomplice, so this really just remains a possibility. We still don't have more information about January 11th, even though it is highly speculated upon on the internet. I mean, there has to be a reason they're saying it, I just don't think we have enough information to conclude exactly why that is. Really, all we have are these, like, conflicting statements from Nanos. He basically says that initially, investigators were told that one of these images may have been from January 11th. But he later says that Google retracted that statement. I wish I had more clarity for you, but that appears to be where it stands.

1:05:57Another unresolved digital lead is the reported spike in online searches for Nancy's address before she disappeared. Fox News reported that Google Trends data appeared to show searches for Nancy's address and possibly Savannah Guthrie's salary before the abduction. That could suggest pre-planning, but it doesn't identify who searched it or proved that the searcher was involved. Now, let's talk theories. The first and most popular is that Nancy was targeted and abducted for ransom. Of course, this theory makes a lot of sense for many reasons. Nancy isn't just a random missing woman in Tucson. She's the mother of Savannah Guthrie, one of the most recognizable anchors on morning TV.

1:06:45Within days of Nancy being reported missing, ransom notes were sent to the media, demanding millions of dollars in Bitcoin. One of those notes reportedly included details that haven't been made public. Nancy's home also didn't appear to be ransacked. So if this wasn't a robbery, people naturally asked, was this about money? Was someone trying to reach Savannah through Nancy? Are these ransom notes real? Are they written by the people who took her? Or by someone exploiting the chaos after the fact? I think that's where this theory becomes complicated. At least one later ransom related communication was determined to be a hoax.

1:07:27And as far as we know publicly, there's been no confirmed proof of life. The original deadlines came and went. Nancy was not returned. No one was arrested as the author of the original ransom note. So while ransom receives one of the strongest public theories, it's still not the same thing as a confirmed motive. The second major theory is that this was a planned abduction, possibly involving more than one person. And this theory really comes from like the logistics of the crime. Nancy was 84 years old. She had limited mobility. She had a pacemaker. Again, her daughter said that on a good day she might be able to walk to the mailbox, but even that was rare.

1:08:09According to Sheriff Nanos, she couldn't walk 50 yards without assistance. So if someone removed Nancy from her home, how did they do it? Did they carry her? Did they force her to walk? Was there a vehicle nearby? Was someone else waiting? But again, this really doesn't explain motive. The third theory is that Nancy's abduction may have involved surveillance or pre-planning before the night she disappeared. Of course, we are going back to those dates that law enforcement has asked the public to look for in terms of surveillance on their own home. January 11th, January 24th, January 31st, and February 1st.

1:08:50Again, we really don't know where that stands. But if it's accurate, if someone was there on January 11th or any date before January 31st or February 1st, it raises an obvious question. Was someone researching Nancy's home before she was taken? And I think this really rolls into the fourth theory, that whoever did this had some kind of prior knowledge of Nancy, her home, or her routine. And I think that this could be applicable to a lot of people. Someone who saw Nancy's routine, someone who delivered something to her house, someone who lived nearby, someone who had access to the property. And I think that's where that outstanding DNA really becomes important.

1:09:34We know that we have this outstanding DNA that doesn't belong to Nancy or reportedly anybody that she knew. That could really solve everything. But for now, we just have to wait for that to come back. The fifth theory is the guest house theory. This one I want to mention because it's been circulated online, but I want to be very clear that I have not seen official confirmation that Nancy was renting out her guest house, that someone was staying there before she disappeared, or that a guest house is a confirmed focus of the investigation. But I think this one's pretty obvious. If somebody's living in the guest house, they know Nancy, they see her routine, and they see some type of opportunity, maybe they struck.

1:10:18The next theory is that there was a burglar or home invasion that went wrong. But I do think that this is one of the weaker public theories, because nothing was taken, or at least nothing that we know of. But I do think it's worth entertaining that this could have started as a burglary. Maybe they realized who Nancy was, that she was connected to someone like Savannah with a lot of money, or just assume that Nancy had money herself and decided to take her for a ransom. Again, I don't think it's the strongest theory, but I do think it's worth considering. The seventh theory, the theory that I know you guys are all waiting for me to address, is possible family involvement.

1:11:00This is the theory that has generated some of the most aggressive online discussion, and I do want to handle it carefully. A lot of the suspicion has focused on Nancy's son-in-law, Tommaso. Again, he was the last person to see her alive. He drove her home from dinner, said he watched her go inside, and then hours later, the doorbell camera disconnected, a camera alert was triggered, and Nancy's pacemaker app disconnected from her phone. I think it's absolutely natural to look at the person who last saw the victim alive. That just makes sense. We also know that in any investigation, they start with the inner circle and work out.

1:11:39So yes, this family has been looked into, at least that's what they're telling us, and I do think that's appropriate for any case. Really, it seems that most of the suspicions around the family are around jealousy. At least from what I'm finding online. Possibly jealous of Savannah and her success, and really, I told you about in episode 1, how Annie and Tommaso moved there specifically to take care of Nancy, so that possibly there was some type of resentment there that made them do this, that possibly they're the people behind the ransom note that they want to collect that money from Savannah.

1:12:14But again, that is 100 % speculation. I read you the statement from Sheriff Nanos. He said very clearly that the Guthrie family, spouses, and siblings included, have been cleared. So where does that leave us? To me, just my opinion, the strongest public theory is that Nancy Guthrie was targeted in a planned abduction, possibly for ransom money, and possibly by someone who had researched her, her home, or her connection to Savannah Guthrie before she disappeared. And to be honest, I have no idea who that person could be. I think that's because the open questions are massive. Who is the masked man?

1:13:02Did he act alone? Are the ransom notes real? Was Nancy targeted because of Savannah? Was there prior surveillance? Who searched Nancy's address before she disappeared? Whose DNA was found at the home? Was the person at her door ever there before February 1st? And of course, most importantly, where is Nancy? That's what makes this case so difficult. There are pieces that seem to point in a direction, but not enough publicly to complete the picture. There's video, but no name. There's DNA, but no public match. There are ransom notes, but no confirmed proof of life. There are theories, but still no arrest.

1:13:51I also think what's tough about Nancy's case is that we're getting information from everywhere all the time. Sometimes from vague anonymous sources. A neighbor, someone claiming to know the family, and really everything in between. Like in mid-March, when Nancy Guthrie's neighbor, Aldine Meister, claimed that there was a confusing law enforcement visit at her sister's home in the same neighborhood. According to Aldine, two hooded people came to her door at night in the rain, identified themselves as FBI agents, and asked to look in the garage. After they left, Aldine's sister called to verify the visit, and she was initially told that no officers had been cleared to come by.

1:14:34That led to a major response. Aldine claimed that multiple officers and FBI agents came to the home, her sister was swabbed, and the property was fingerprinted. And later, the visitors were reportedly confirmed to have been real FBI agents. But I also couldn't find a direct statement from law enforcement to confirm this encounter. So, as much as I hate to say it again, take that for what you will. It doesn't stop there. In May, Fox reporter Michael Ruiz took the stage at CrimeCon in Las Vegas to announce that he heard from, quote, a really good federal source, end quote, that investigators were discussing bringing in new technological tools to assist in the case.

1:15:17But he didn't specify what those were. At the same panel, defense attorney Donna Rotuno claimed Savannah Guthrie had spent$500 ,000 of her own money hiring investigators. But again, I haven't seen that figure confirmed by Savannah or in law enforcement. So at this point, I'm taking that as a claim, not a fact. Honestly, there are countless stories like this that haven't been confirmed by law enforcement, which could absolutely be true. Or could absolutely be made up. So I'll leave that for you to decide. But I do want to talk about the incentive to cover Nancy's case. Or really any case that's this popular in the media.

1:16:01And I do want to be careful here because we don't have access to every outlet's analytics, ad rates, or sponsorship deals. But of course, this case has generated an enormous amount of monetized attention. News articles, TV segments, YouTube videos, live streams, podcasts, TikToks, Reddit recaps, and tabloid coverage all create revenue somewhere. Whether through ads, programmatic display, pre-rolls, host-read ads, creator funds, subscriptions, or just audience growth. Even using conservative assumptions, if Nancy's case generated tens of millions of monetized views, and downloads across the media ecosystem, you're likely talking about at least six figures in gross revenue.

1:16:45If the total reach is closer to hundreds of millions of impressions across national news, YouTube, podcasts, tabloids, and social media, the number could plausibly reach seven figures collectively. And please know that's not me saying that every person covering this case as doing it purely for profit. Journalism costs money, podcasts costs money, research costs money. But when a missing person case becomes a content economy, I think we have to be honest about that. There is financial incentive for more updates, more theories, more speculation, more livestream, more thumbnails, more urgency, and more outrage, even when there may not actually be new confirmed fact to report.

1:17:30I mean, I can tell you that almost every single day that I open up Facebook, I see a story that says that Nancy was found dead or that there was an arrest made in the case. We obviously know that those aren't true, but they exist because there's incentive to create them. Whether purely for the attention, or in my opinion, in most cases, purely for money. Even today, I had to run back and record a new update for you, because on June 11th, 2026, the day this episode airs, there was a new lead out of Mexico. A search group called Bascando Corazones Nogales said they received an anonymous tip claiming that Nancy may have been buried in an unmarked grave in the Mariposa area northwest of Nogales, Sonora.

1:18:15The tip reportedly described a possible grave near or over a stream. And the group did search the area with the help of the Sonora State Commission for the Search of Missing Persons and local authorities pitched in too, but they did not find Nancy's remains. The area itself has significance because searchers had reportedly found 25 unmarked graves earlier this year, so this was a tip serious enough for searchers to act on. But as of right now, it has not produced a confirmed break in Nancy's case, and law enforcement officials in the U.S. haven't even confirmed it. As it stands, Nancy has not been found, no one has been arrested in her disappearance, and no suspect has been publicly identified.

1:19:00Those are really some of the only confirmed facts in Nancy's case. Which finally brings me to our call to action. And it's going to be a bit different than what I usually do. Of course, I will ask that you continue to share Nancy's case until she's found. But I want to encourage you to share the official FBI flyer. Not every news story you see on the internet, or at the very least, please double check what you're sharing before you do so. Those posts on Facebook saying that Nancy has been found, that there's a suspect in custody, those have thousands of shares on them. Frankly, I've never covered a case with this much conflicting information, statements, and just blatantly false information.

1:19:46So please pause, think, and investigate before you share a story about Nancy. The goal is to bring her home. And to do that, I think we have to ensure that we're separating fact from fiction and just pure speculation. Because behind all the crazy news stories and sensational theories is Nancy, an 84-year-old woman who needs to be brought home safely.

1:20:17As a reminder, Nancy Guthrie was last seen at her home in Tucson, Arizona on January 31st, 2026. She is 84 years old, white, 5 '4", about 150 pounds, with brown hair and blue eyes. The FBI is also asking for help identifying the suspect seen in the recovered doorbell camera footage. He's described as a male, approximately 5 '9 to 5 '10 with an average build. In the video, he's wearing dark clothing, gloves, a mask, and a black 25-liter Ozark Trail Hiker Pack backpack. There is a reward of up to$1.2 million in this case. Anyone with information is asked to call the FBI at 1-800-CALL-FBI. That's 1-800-225-5324.

1:21:10You can also submit tips online at tips.fbi.gov, and you can contact the Pima County Sheriff's Department at 520-351-4900. But, as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.

1:21:33Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice Media Original. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show on your podcast player. It's an easy way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice.

1:22:29you

1:22:36Welcome to the Secret After Show. The studio door is open and our emotional support puppies, Popcorn and Heber, are in the room. Let's go right into the case because, my goodness. The first thing I have on my list here is I got a comment saying that I was complaining about how many resources were being put towards Nancy's case. And I think you could see it as complaining. I guess that's fair. But my greater reason for talking about it so bluntly is to just address the elephant in the room. Most families involved in unresolved cases will tell you that their loved ones' cases didn't get anywhere near the resources that this case did.

1:23:23And I'm not bashing Nancy. That's why I put that immediate disclaimer that all cases should receive the same resources. Really, the resources necessary to solve the case. But the brutal truth that I refuse to avoid is that they don't. You guys see that every single week. I analyze the response from law enforcement in every single case. And what I've seen over all these years covering cases, speaking to families, and living within my sister's case is that there's no standard. Some people who are reported missing have several agencies mobilized to find them. Others, like Emily Pike, Anaya Walker, and my own sister, get little to no response at all.

1:24:09And I think we have to keep addressing this, and keep asking the question that they refuse to answer. Why is that? Why does Nancy Guthrie get these resources? Gabby Petito, Natalie Holloway, Elizabeth Smart. and why do other cases get nearly nothing until the public demands it like relisha rudd alexis patterson who went missing just weeks before elizabeth smart or again i hate to make it anecdotal like my sister or in law enforcement didn't conduct a single interview something that just cost payroll until six years after she was reported missing if i don't ask these questions if I don't address the fact that some of these cases are blessed with resources and others barely get anything, that makes me a part of the problem.

1:25:02Again, it's not saying that Nancy Guthrie shouldn't get these resources. It's saying that every single case should get the resources they need for it to be solved. And that is not happening in this country. It's not happening, like in basically every state where I cover these cases. I see these discrepancies. I have yet to see a standard of law enforcement coming together saying we will allocate the resources needed to solve this case. And of course, we know that there's a variety of factors, right? We know that race plays a role in it, let's be honest, even age, right? I think a good example is June Goodman from Northern Arizona.

1:25:41I covered her case a few weeks ago, and I told you guys it's very similar to Nancy. Older woman, been in her house for a long time, mysteriously gone, back doors open. She got almost no news coverage, despite being connected to a prominent political family. But that family really weren't as public-facing as Savannah Guthrie, for one. Right? So I think it's important to analyze all these factors. Why does one case get so many resources and other cases get almost none. And anybody with a loved one impacted by violent crime or a loved one of a long-term missing person can tell you the same thing.

1:26:27They all deserve the same resources. They deserve full investigations until the case is solved. Nancy Guthrie included Emily Pike included Anaya Walker included my sister included and I feel like it's responsible for me to discuss where I'm at in my life and why I'm so passionate about this right I feel like it would just be like disingenuous to not address the episode I put out yesterday right um this affects me this is a personal issue for me because my sister's case has not received resources. And of course, that makes me feel a certain type of way. It doesn't make me feel, again, like Nancy shouldn't get those resources.

1:27:13It makes me feel like everyone should. The unfortunate truth is that most people who go missing or who are murdered won't get the attention their case deserves or needs to be solved. And let's take Arizona as an example. They unfortunately don't track exact numbers statewide, but there are over a thousand missing person cases that are active in NamUs right now, which I have to assume is just a fraction of the actual missing person cases in these departments. And according to the FBI, there's about 7 ,000 unsolved homicides in Arizona since 1965. Again, just a fraction, I assume. So let's just like round that out to an even number, 10 ,000 unsolved cases between missing and homicide.

1:27:58So the question is, why is Nancy getting every resource available, a hundred patrol cars, and these other cases aren't? I think common sense tells us the answer. It's media pressure. The squeaky wheel gets the grease is a saying for a reason. It's true. I mean, I've seen this argued online. And the idea that the director of the FBI, Kash Patel, the idea that getting a personal phone call from the President of the United States, arguably the most powerful person on this planet, to say that that's not special treatment, is a lie. This case has received special treatment, and I think we have to look that fact right in the eye and not shy away from it.

1:28:50But now, the question, and really the goal, is how do we make this happen for every case? I don't know. But I'm not going to stop talking about it until we figure it out. I could go on forever, so let's move on to anonymous sources and the danger there. I cannot tell you guys how many articles I read that used vague anonymous sources. Someone close to the family, someone in law enforcement close to the case, someone within that department. That should always put up a red flag for you. It doesn't mean that it's not true. It doesn't. It just means that you should look at it, I think, a little bit deeper.

1:29:37And this is a case that has so many of those. And let me give you another anecdotal experience, right? Example, I should say, about why questioning things is really important. I often see, and I saw it all the time in this case, someone close to the family, Nancy's friend, Nancy's best friend, whatever it might be, right? Let me tell you, there was a girl, I think most of you guys know this, but just as a reminder, there was a girl who spoke out about my sister's case. I think it was on Dateline. I didn't watch it. But after it aired, I got all these messages because there was a woman on there saying that she was Alyssa's best friend.

1:30:15People were sending me screenshots with her name and I have no idea who this person is. So I sent it out to like, you know, Alyssa's network of friends and Alyssa went to a few different schools. So I'm like, you know, who knows where she could be from. But after like weeks of us sharing this information around to people like checking yearbooks, not a single person that I know that knew Alyssa knows who that person is on Dateline saying that that's Alyssa's best friend. So again, I highly encourage you to take these things with a grain of salt. Because sometimes these productions, these articles, they will fill in these gaps with information that may not be true, to put it very frankly.

1:30:58And perhaps this girl did present herself as Alyssa's best friend, and that's like as far as they took it. I don't know. I didn't ask. Just remember, some things in true crime, unfortunately many things in true crime, are done for entertainment purposes. And I think that we saw that especially in Nancy's case. On to media discrepancies. I laid them out in the episode because this case is riddled with them. I mean, you can find conflicting information for almost everything, which is why I made the call to action what it was and why I was so clear by saying this is confirmed by law enforcement. This has not been confirmed by law enforcement.

1:31:42And I know law enforcement is not like the end all be all of truth, right? But I think that we have to have some type of standard for this information, especially in a case like this, where there's a news story every day, where every day they're posting that this case has been solved. Like, there has to be a baseline of, in your mind, this has been confirmed by law enforcement, which tells you that, you know, in a certain sense, they're kind of putting their jobs on the line, right? Right. Depending on your position, right? Some people are untouchable if they just want to lie to the media. But in general, when law enforcement confirms something, I think that that's a better standard to know that's real than Fox News saying that this source that is unnamed but close to the family has all this breaking information.

1:32:30So please just weigh the evidence carefully. Which brings me to our hero of the episode. This was hard for me. I put people who are sharing this case responsibly. Experts who do not claim to know everything that happened and speak honestly with the public about possibilities. And journalists who separate facts from fiction. You guys know that this is like one thing I like to do. I'll take these very large cases, wait for them to cool down a little bit, and then cover them factually and be very, very specific about what's been confirmed and what's not. And I hope I was able to do that in this episode.

1:33:14I have a feeling that there's going to be a variety of theories I didn't hit on in this case that may be popular on like Reddit. But if there's no factual basis, if there's not something I can actually tie to the case, I don't feel responsible reporting those theories and my god I think what we reported like seven theories in this case so again I really hope that this was able to like calm some of the chaos show you literally for you to hear what the main players in this case are saying whenever possible and outline what's been confirmed and what hasn't been confirmed so that you can make an intelligent decision about how you feel about this case.

1:33:59It's okay to theorize 100%. Like, I get it. I think that's just natural human nature. You hear something and a theory pops into your head, an opinion, right? We're human, that's what we do. But again, I hope that these episodes helped lay out maybe what should be weighed more heavily and what should be considered entertainment. With all of that being said, let's go on to our segment of hope. This is from June 8, 2026, written by Saline Martin for USA Today. The title reads, A farmer found her remains in a field in 1992. Now she's been ID'd. The article reads, A woman whose remains have been at the center of a cold case in Pennsylvania for over 30 years has been identified, officials recently announced.

1:34:51The remains belong to Nuria Colombia Rodriguez, who went missing from the Bronx in New York City when she was 25 years old. According to the coroner, her remains were identified over 33 years after they were discovered in June 1992. Due to the condition of the remains, officials said that they have not been able to determine her cause of death or manner of death. Police have also not publicly confirmed how her remains ended up over 100 miles from where she lived in the Bronx. What we do know is that a farmer found a woman's remains on June 3, 1992 while working in a field in Berks County. This is about 27 miles west of Allentown.

1:35:33The farmer initially found a skull resting atop freshly turned soil, which is insane. The farmer alerted authorities who found a shallow grave containing partial skeletal remains. They suspected the remains had been buried there at least a year before the farmer found them. Per the coroner's office, investigators generated a forensic facial sketch in efforts to identify the woman. They also used DNA analysis and the National Missing and Unidentified Person System, NAMIS, to learn who she was. When they were unable to identify her, officials called her Christman Jane Doe. And you guys, it looks like Parabon did this one.

1:36:15It says the coroner's office said investigators repeatedly tried to identify the woman over the last three decades. In 2024, the coroner's office worked with Virginia-based lab Parabon NanoLabs using advanced DNA technology to trace her family connections. The Pennsylvania State Police also worked with the coroner and the lab to figure out who the woman was, which led them to a family in New York that had been looking for a relative since the early 1990s. In April, investigators were confident in identifying the woman as Rodriguez, age 25. Her family had searched for her since she missed her child's birthday.

1:36:54She would have never missed that day, they recalled. She has been described as a jokester, a loving person, and someone people often felt safe around, according to her family. She was feisty at times, but never unkind, they wrote. She was intelligent and loved school. She went to Nathaniel Hawthorne Middle School, 74 in the Bronx, where she was on the cheerleading squad. She gave birth to her son, I'm going to admit his name, at a young age, her family said. Her son recalled holding his mother's hands on Halloween as she dressed as a soldier with a helmet and canteen. One year for Christmas, she brought home a real tree.

1:37:34With no stand, she improvised and tied it to a radiator. She was gone too soon, her family wrote. A life interrupted, a story unfinished in ways that will always be difficult to accept. Sorry, this one is getting me, guys. But the coroner said that anyone with information about her disappearance and death can contact the Pennsylvania State Police at 610-562-6885. But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.