Sodder Family Interview with Miranda Weeks, Great Great Granddaughter of Jennie and George Sodder

31:29I love a supportive partner. I love that you have that. oh yeah bless his heart for sure because i can go on a ramble sometimes as you should as you should and you know sometimes i get a little heated and he'll have to be like breathe calm down i'm like i know i know i know yeah yeah no and it really does help because i think you know like i was saying like you can just like hype yourself up almost and you know And for me, I always felt like that meme of like the guy in front of the board with the strings, like, are you seeing what I'm seeing? And it's like, so it's nice when people are like, yes, you're not insane.

32:14Exactly, for sure. Well, and of course, you know, we have to slide into theories and asking about, you know, and I think for me, it feels, you know, pretty apparent, you know, what happened there. But this case, I think, has really divided people on the Internet. So I want people to hear directly from you. You're a family member. You have reached research this case probably more than anybody else on this planet at this point. so I just want to hit like the heavy hitters you know do you think that there are any you know social or political things that may have been involved in this case I'm not too certain on the political climate aspect of it but socially I think that the social climate in the town at the time was definitely stacked against them you know his former employer and his family were very important people back then, and they owned a lot of the buildings in Fayetteville at the time as well.

33:17And in 1951, George and Jenny had stated in a letter to the superintendent of the Department of Public Safety and said that we could not hire a lawyer in Fayetteville because all of them were afraid they would be put out of their office buildings if they took over our case. And not to mention that five of the six members of the coroner's jury had personal connections to Forenzo, and his first cousin was the foreman of the jury. And they had connections going back to the 30s with several members of those involved with the investigation, including the prosecuting attorney and the fire chief. And they were also, they were in a lot of, like, town clubs, like Rotary Club, and, you know, they were Freemasons as well.

34:11And they knew at least two men that worked at different newspapers in 1945. I've probably gone through at least a thousand newspapers at this point, and I'm not even done. Holy cow. You know, there's something about these cases that become generational. I think this case by nature, unfortunately, is generational, right? But what I mean is, you know, these cases I so often see just get passed down generation after generation after generation. And it just, I just wish you could have all the answers. oh me too but you know I've had to accept that that I'm not going to get all the answers I could I could probably also write a book on the questions that I'll never have answers to unfortunately just because of how old this case is and you know everybody that was involved has passed away at this point and like I like I keep saying there's so many documents missing but and You know, I just got to take what I can get, really.

35:20Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, and I think everybody wants to know, is there like a consensus within the family about what happened? Like, you know, accident, arson, and is there a theory that you subscribe to? Oh, 100 % arson. Um, you know, there's so much that points to arson and nothing that points to it being an accident. You know, besides the fact that Frenzo Giudolo had threatened to burn the house down and then raised the insurance without telling George, you also have the fact that the telephone wire was cut 14 feet in the air and two feet away from the pole. The ladder that was usually kept next to the house was found 70 feet away from the house over an embankment.

36:10Shortly before the fire, a man had showed up and pointed to the brand new fuse boxes and said they were going to start a fire someday. And a passenger on a bus saw balls of fire being thrown onto the roof as the bus passed the house. And you know how anyone can look at these facts and still think it could have been an accident is a little wild to me. I mean, and all of these things were mentioned in the fire marshal reports as well. Different officials also repeatedly admit that the cause of the fire was undetermined, and they only stated it was due to faulty wiring because the fire was spotted in the room with the telephone.

36:56And they try to claim that there was accelerants in the basement. Like they try to claim that he kept stockpiles of coal, that he had tires down there, that he had gas down there. But George insisted that none of that was true. And I mean, even if it was, it still wouldn't have made the fire hot enough to burn all five of the kids' bodies. My personal theory is that the plan was to take the children and burn the house down since Gidula said in his threat, your house is going up in smoke and your children are going to be destroyed, and since he raised the house insurance two weeks before the fire without telling George.

37:42I think whoever took the children off the property that night was known and was trusted by them. And I've found that Jenny Sautter believed the same way based on interviews that she did. She even told a newspaper that she believed the kidnappers must have been familiar to the children because if it was a stranger, the children would have screamed and nobody heard any screams that night. I think I mentioned this earlier, but I personally believe that they were told to stay up late that night because the person had some sort of surprise for them. I think that they were then taken to a house in Smithers and told that their family had burned up in the fire and that their older brother had died in the war and that they were essentially orphans.

38:32What happened to them after that? I think there are two possibilities. Either they were killed shortly after being spotted at the Charleston Hotel or they were sent to Florida and then shipped out of the country. Unfortunately, I don't believe Maurice survived. Maurice was the oldest boy. He was 14. Survived either way since he was not spotted at the hotel with the rest of the kids. If they were shipped out of the country, like I said, I don't think they were kept together and I don't think that they were sent to the country to, you know, be adopted out. I think that Betty could have been since she was five.

39:17It would have been a little easier to put her into a new family. But as for the rest of them, I don't. I think they could have been sold into, you know, into slavery or something like that unfortunately yeah i mean that that could make total sense to me absolutely as horrifying as it is unfortunately yeah you know it's as much as i hate to say it it's almost better to to believe that they were killed shortly after versus what could have happened to them if they weren't you know what i mean yeah and i mean if the motive is revenge right why keep the kids alive i don't often uh tell people what my personal theories are in cases but i'm right there with you um and and i've had this debate with like other podcasters right you know is an accident or is it arson and i'm like how can you not see that it's arson um i feel like you know if this were to happen in modern day it would be just so clear.

40:27So and there would be no argument. At the bare minimum, it's arson and murder, right? Like if you assume that the kids did die in the fire, they didn't. I'm going to say that right now. But if you assume they did, then at the very least, it's arson and murder. How you can point this to be an accident, I don't know. But to your point about it happening in modern times, you know, we've kind of discussed this. I can't remember her last name, but Chloe and then her brother's name was Gage Daniel. You know, they at first didn't think that that was arson. They thought that it was an accident and that, you know, the kids had burned up, even though they found the remains of the family's bird.

41:14Yep, yep. No, absolutely. And I mean, just if you think about like the true crime brain, if you will, especially in today's society, you know, like there were threats made, there are witnesses who say that, you know, somebody was throwing fire onto the roof and then this happens. I don't understand how a certain sect of the true crime audience doesn't see that as suspicious and just sees it as an accident. And I have to wonder If it's almost placing blame on the parents, you know, I feel like that's the most common argument I see is they just couldn't accept that their kids died in a fire. And it's like, how are we forgetting about all the other evidence that stacked up against them?

41:59I think any reasonable parent would do exactly what they did. oh exactly and you know every retelling doesn't always have all the facts in it but at least everyone i've seen has stated that there was a threat to burn the house down and most of them mentioned the ladder missing uh and and the um the telephone wire being cut so i just don't understand, like, if the threat hadn't been made, but the other things had happened, okay, maybe you could explain them away. Maybe. But I just don't understand how people can ignore the threat and think that it has nothing to do with it. That's what doesn't make sense to me.

42:49Like, if you take all the other stuff and you're like, okay, you know, maybe one of the family members had moved the ladder and didn't tell anybody. Or maybe the telephone wire was burned and it just looked like it was cut, but they couldn't tell. But, you know, the threat is really what points to me that, you know, that it couldn't have been an accident. Like I said, I just don't understand how people can ignore that. You know, I might have a hot take here that might get me in trouble, but I feel like there's a certain audience in true crime that always views families, you know, affected by violent crime as too emotional to the point where they can't think logically.

43:34And I think that that happens often in this case. Again, it goes back to like the parents are just grieving and they're not being reasonable, which I think that argument doesn't hold, you know, because they did this for decades. You know, they were fighting for these kids for decades. You can't tell me. Yeah, exactly. Until they died, right? Like, you know, I could see if it was all emotion, no logic, maybe that going on for a few years. But until they die, like at what point would you expect logic to take over that emotion? You can't assume that people are having that level of emotion for that long.

44:18Does that make sense? Yes, it makes a lot of sense. And, you know, the same people that like to ignore the threat being made also like to bring up that in the Department of Safety report, they say that John Sauter, the oldest, told them that he had went in and shaken the kids awake. and you know I I don't know for sure he could have said it um or you know they they could have you know misrepresented what he said because you know we don't know what exactly what was happening in the situation we don't know if they just said hey tell us what happened and this is what he said or if they asked him questions like well why didn't you go wake him up why didn't you know why did you just run down the stairs but we also got to realize that John had just returned from fighting in World War II nine days before like he literally just got out of fighting in a brutal war and I can't even imagine what was going through his head in that moment and I you know, I can imagine him saying that, but just because he's, you know, all these thoughts are running through his head, like, you know, my siblings are dead.

45:39Why did I not help them? You know what I mean? Like, I'm not placing blame on him at all, but I'm saying that, you know, we never know how we are going to react in a situation. And he later on says that he didn't say that and that they actually just called to the kids. They didn't go shake them awake. But, you know, the people, so many people like to point to that and they're like, well, why, you know, why did he say that? But they don't think about what he was going through in that moment, if that makes sense. Yeah, 100 percent. You know, I think that people always have assumptions about what they might do or, you know, what they think others should do.

46:22But once you're in that moment And once it's happening, you know, I think that like there's no telling. Yeah. And I see so many people that are like, well, why did Jenny yell upstairs to her kids? Why didn't she go up there and get her kids? I would have gone up there and gotten my kids. And I'm like, for one, do you not think that she thought about that for the rest of her life? I mean, it wouldn't have mattered if she went up there anyways because they weren't up there. but do you not think that she thought about that for the rest of her life and you know in in the moment when she you know woke up and saw the fire they weren't thinking you know anything else they weren't thinking their kids were gone they weren't they weren't even thinking that it was a huge fire they just thought that they were going to be able to put it out quickly and then go back to bed they never imagined that their entire house was about to burn down and you know I'm sure after that they constantly thought about how they could have done things differently that night but like that's that's not helpful and and placing blame on them is not helpful either like you know it whether she went up there or not does not change the fact that the kids were not up there and that they were taken.

47:43You know, if she had gone up there, I mean, it would have, she would have been able to be like, oh, well, they weren't up there, but I'm sure officials would have just, you know, dismissed her anyways and been like, well, you just didn't see them or something like that. Yeah, no, I think that that's a great point. And especially, you know, when you look at the year that this happened, right, it would certainly be common, I think, for any law enforcement official or, you know, fire marshal, whatever, to be like, she's the mother, she's hysterical, and just call it a day. Well, and, you know, even though the fire marshal wasn't there that day, that he said that in his 1950 report, he said that he showed up that day and that he did not talk to George and Jenny because they were inconsolable and weren't worth talking to.

48:32That's basically what he said. Yeah, it's just insane. Who wouldn't be inconsolable? Who wouldn't be hysterical after losing so many children? Yeah, so many children, your entire house, everything that belonged to those children. They literally had to start over completely. Their whole house burned down. And while they did find some things in the ashes, like they didn't find anything that, you know, any, any, I mean, pictures weren't as common back then. But, you know, any pictures they had taken of the kids when they were little, anything like that is, is, was completely gone. And, you know, back then, once something was gone, it's gone.

49:22You know, there was no digital backup. You, there was nowhere else to go to, to get those pictures. So, you know, they did have a lot to deal with in the moment. So, of course, like you said, why would you not be inconsolable? I'm sure I would have been too. I feel like you've answered so many of the questions I had left on my list, which is fantastic. So I kind of wanted to, while we're talking about it, you know, what do you think the interest in this case, the Internet in general, like what role has it played? Do you think that they've been helpful? Has it been overwhelming? Has it been not helpful?

50:01How do you feel about it? Like I said, it's certainly one of the most infamous cases in true crime. I would say helpful, but also harmful. You know, because this story has been circulated so much, but each retelling is different. because, you know, rumors get spread or, you know, somebody runs it through chat GPT and they tell them this is what happened. And, you know, I try to and I have so many friends, including my one of my old college professors. She will tag me anytime she sees somebody post about this. And I'm so thankful for her when she does that. But whenever I see them, I always, you know, make sure to comment on there and tell them who I am.

50:55And I tell them that, you know, unfortunately, there's some inaccuracies, but you know, I'm not upset about it. It's not their fault that there's not accurate information out there, but I would be happy to help them fix it. But you know, of course, I have people arguing with me because they've followed the case their whole lives and they think they know everything about it. And I'm bringing out new information and they just can't understand why this is the first time they're hearing about it, which I do understand. But, you know, and people, I've had people ask me why I am the first person to be public about it, like, so long after.

51:40And I really think the answer just comes down to that I have the most free time. and I'm also, you know, I mean, I'm not super comfortable speaking publicly, but, you know, I'm more comfortable than I would say most of my family is. We're a lot, we're pretty much a family of homebodies, you know, like, so, but, you know, it has also been helpful. I, you know, answering people's questions really helps me think through things and it also helps me figure out what I need to elaborate on whenever I'm telling the story myself, just to help people understand the case better. What I will say has been really helpful is websites like, you know, newspaperarchive.com, which is where I've found so many of the old newspapers from back then.

52:36And like I said, probably like a thousand newspapers at this point. And, you know, everything, not everything, but having a lot of stuff digitized and having searchable databases has been really helpful. Yeah, I always say, and I feel like it's like, people might think it's a cop-out, but it's all like a double-edged sword. It's good. It hurts. Some people are great. Some people are not so great. And I mean, you know, to the point you were making about you, you know, the first person that's been, you know, really media facing in this case, I feel like that's kind of a newer thing. You know, for decades, maybe people might write a book about what happened to their family.

53:20But in terms of, you know, fighting for answers and broadcasting it, it feels very kind of new with the Internet and with social media. Like most cases don't have somebody like you researching and telling the story like that's the norm. So, I mean, I think it's great that you're coming forward. And, you know, I wish more families would do it. I understand why they don't 100 percent. But I think that there's so much value in that. Like you're the only person that, you know, a family member might let into their attic to look at a box of documents, for example. That's not going to happen for an everyday person.

53:56So that's why you have information that not everybody else has, because naturally these families, your family has more information on this case than anybody. Yeah. And, you know, I also think it's just, you know, since my part of the Sauter family didn't have firsthand knowledge and like I said, we didn't know that these documents existed for a long time. So like, I'm sure that members of the family just thought like, you know, what could I do? You know, like George and Jenny were vocal for the rest of their lives and nothing happened. And, you know, I don't put any blame on any of my family members for not speaking out about it.

54:48Like, I don't blame them because this is a tough thing to do. You know, sometimes I'm like, man, it hits me all at once where I'm like, man, I am really looking into an 80-year-old cold case that was ruled an accident. Like that, it just blows my mind sometimes that I'm doing it. So like I can't blame everybody else for not wanting to do it. Oh, 100%. Well, and the bottom line is, is that nobody should have had, you know, nobody should have to do this. In a perfect world, I think every family that's affected by true crime would just want the authorities to come in, solve it correctly so that they can heal and move on, right?

55:34Or, you know, I understand with missing persons, it's not that simple. But you know what I mean? Like, the ideal world isn't 80 years later having, you know, a grandchild so far removed, come do all this legwork. nobody wants that. And to your point, you know, those parents, I mean, they just did the most. And yeah, I feel like it's just such a hard situation. Yeah, it can be for sure. But, you know, I'm willing to stick it out because, you know, that's what they deserve. And, you know, sometimes I wish that they had access to the things that I have access to now. Like, I think if they had the technology that we have now, this case never would have went as long as it did being, you know, considered a closed case.

56:35Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I mean, you know, of course, while you're here and everybody's listening, is there anything that you want to clear up? Like something that you always hear about the case that's just completely incorrect? um well i mean the biggest and obvious one is that they didn't die in the fire um i don't even consider it a possibility and it's not just because i'm a family member it's just so inconceivable to think that the fire was hot enough to turn five children to ash but still leave behind things like fabric and a stove and a part of a book and undamaged coins and, you know, and no one heard screams.

57:20No one saw children at the window or smelled burning flesh. And this isn't just the family. Like there were people that, there were witnesses that showed up once they heard the fire was happening and nobody at the scene was able to say that they, you know, saw any indication that the kids were in there. And I think the fact that the lights were still on and the doors were unlocked when Jenny woke up is the biggest indicator that they never made it back inside. From what I've been told, Marisa and Martha, who were the two oldest, were incredibly responsible, and they would not have gone to bed without doing what their mother had told them to do first.

58:03Also, I hear these a lot. The kids did not set the fire for themselves and run away. George and Jenny did not sell them or send them out of the country for a better life. They weren't being abused. You know, it does really break my heart to look through the comments and see people blaming Jordan Jenny. I think it really diminishes all the work they did. And, you know, this is coming from someone who never got to meet them. And I can't even begin to imagine what it's like for, you know, my family members that did know them and did get to spend time with them for them to have to read these awful things they're being said about them.

58:51um i also don't i know that a lot of people think the mafia was involved i don't i think that the mafia theory is the easiest for people to believe because it just kind of ties everything together neatly like everything you can every part of the story you can just be like oh well yeah the mafia would have done that. Yeah, the mafia would have done that. But, you know, like I said earlier, the genudalos were incredibly well connected. And, you know, I don't think that they would have needed any outside influences to make people do what they wanted. Yeah. I mean, I think all that is extremely fair.

59:40Extremely fair. And like I said, I just, I think it's so powerful to hear from someone like you and to clear those things up. I mean, I don't think that you would have any motive to lie. You know what I mean? Like there's, there's absolutely no motive for you to be deceptive in this case. You just want the truth. I think that that's very apparent. Yeah. You know, and I have had, I have had people in Facebook comments with, which like, I, I don't care what people have to say, but I've had people be like, well, you're, you're just doing this for the money. And I'm like, I don't know what money you think I'm making, but.

1:00:15What money? What money? It's, I feel like that's so common in true crime. And I don't really know where people get that perception from that people like you, people like me are paid for things like this. When in reality, it usually costs us money and we're happy to spend that money. But of course, whenever you try to say like, hey, I'm not making any money, then they just like fight back harder. And I always feel like it's like just not worth it. Like just, you know, like I love talking about ethics and true crime as a whole. But when it comes to comments like that, like I usually just don't respond.

1:00:58Oh, yeah, I usually don't. I mainly go through the comments just because of how long it has been with this the incorrect story being circulated and I always want to be able to answer people's questions genuine questions like you know I know there are some people that genuinely care about the case they just don't have access to the right information so I always want to be available for those people but sometimes I do I do love to argue sometimes and especially if people are gonna start saying slanderous things against George and Jenny, then, you know, I will fight back. But I agree. I have learned when to fight back and when not to fight back.

1:01:52Yeah, I know. I totally get it. And I mean, honestly, I respect every family's choice to do whatever they want with their case in terms of speaking out. I just I don't know. Maybe I've like lost my my fight for trying to specifically answer those questions for people. I just I don't know. It's so hard, I think, being a family in true crime, because not only do you have to defend like every single aspect of the story, but then they make you defend yourself. And you're like, hey, man, like I never wanted to be here. Do you think I like signed up for this to happen to my family? Like I'm just trying to help.

1:02:29Like I just want to be like, can you give me a break? like? No, for real. I even had somebody, they were like, well, if you were a decent person, then you would turn all your information over to the FBI because it's their case anyways. And I'm like, what are you talking about? The FBI has never been involved in this case. They said that if the local officials would invite them, they would be glad to, but the local officials wouldn't. so I'm not sure what you think the FBI is going to do about an 80-year-old case that was closed. Right. You're like, I wish. I would love for somebody from the FBI to get involved.

1:03:10Like, you know, how about they do this instead of me? But you bring up a really good point. I wonder, I mean, I'm assuming that everything's closed, but is this case open, like, anywhere in any department? No, nobody, there aren't even any departments that have any documents on it anymore because it was closed. So like everything has already been gotten rid of. The only people that have the documents are me and their granddaughter Jenny and anybody that she has sent the documents to um but yeah no it's it's still closed I would I don't exactly know how to go about it I I would like to get it reclassified um not necessarily reopened although it might be the same thing just because I don't expect anybody to really investigate this because there's not really anything to investigate like you can't interview anybody you can't look through evidence like everything is gone but I would like it to be reclassified just so it's not ruled as an accident anymore because a lot of people point to that they're like well that they investigated it they ruled it an accident.

1:04:37And I'm like, okay, they said they investigated it, but they didn't. So, you know, I think if we could get it, you know, reclassified, even just undetermined, like that, that would be cool with me. Do you think that there's a piece of evidence out there that exists that could give us a definitive answer on this that would make everybody say, okay, this definitely was arson. As far, like, if the kids grew up and did have families of their own, then obviously DNA would be the answer. And the number one question I get is, have you submitted DNA? Yes, I have submitted DNA. Other members of my family have as well.

1:05:26uh since i'm so far down the line it's less likely that i would be a viable match but we i do have you know um relatives that would have been closer to them that have submitted dna so you know that that's the obvious answer but i don't know realistically i think it's too late for this case to really be solved. So unless, you know, someone has the, like the, the original, um, fire marshal case file, uh, we don't know, like the fire marshal doesn't have, have it anymore, and we're not entirely sure if it was gotten rid of or what. Um, but you know, if somebody happens to have that or, you know, if the people that did it happen to write their confession down somewhere and it's just sitting in somebody's attic.

1:06:29Other than that, I really don't know what, at this point, could be brought forward. Yeah, I mean, I think that's fair. And you just never know. Like, people go into their attics and find documents or somebody's about to pass away and they're like, hey, I maybe didn't tell you about this. I feel like we see older cases like this solved all the time or at least get more answers. So I don't think it's totally, you know, out of range of possibility. I think that there's still, you know, a lot that could be discovered. It just it's hard. Are people keeping secrets and for what reason? You know, what was retained?

1:07:11But yeah, I mean, I'm a firm believer that there's always hope, which I, you know, I do want to ask, you know, best case scenario, best case scenario, what does justice look like for you at this point? I think that really all that matters to me now is getting the truth out there. And, you know, it's important to me and to Sylvia's daughter, Jenny, that people know that Jordan and Jenny were so much more than what happened to them. You know, they were kind, they were caring, they were strong-willed people that still cared about others despite what was done to them. And I think the fact that they stated that they would be willing to waive prosecution just to learn what happened to their kids speaks volumes about the type of people they were.

1:08:07You know, they were not, I mean, I'm sure a small part of them was interested in getting the people that did this, but the bottom line was that they just wanted their kids back. That's all that, if that's all that happened, and even if they couldn't, even if the kids were dead and they could just learn that, like, that's all they wanted was to know what happened to their kids. And I think, you know, really what justice to me would just be making sure people know that and making sure that they tried to get justice, but they basically weren't allowed it. I always like to end things on how we can help.

1:08:59How can my listeners right now help you? Is there a way to help you or is it just sharing the story? just continue to share the story um and you can also join uh my facebook group um it's just the missing solder children uh i'll that's where i'll be putting any updates i um may have and where i'll also share you know any coverage that i would recommend listening to that um would be accurate uh i just ask that everyone bear with me while i try to figure it out since i'm you know just one person. I would also really love to get a flower garden for them somewhere in Fayetteville. Their granddaughter, Jenny, still has the flowers from Jenny Sautter's original memorial garden, and she's agreed to donate them if I, you know, can make it happen.

1:09:54I'm still trying to work on the logistics for that, but at some point I would probably have a petition for people to sign just to show that, you know, it isn't just the family that thinks George and Jane deserve something, that it's more than that. I love that. And obviously, I will do anything I can to help, and I think my listeners will too. Yeah. And, you know, I wouldn't recommend going and buying anything on this just because, like I've said, a lot of stuff isn't super accurate. So I would just be, I would be cautious about that because I know that whenever people learn about a case, they want to, you know, dig into it as much as they can.

1:10:41And I would just suggest that you be cautious about it. And, but like I said, my Facebook group, I'll, you know, anything that I recommend that you listen to slash, you know, read will be posted on there. Yeah. I mean, who knows better than you? I think that that's perfect. Before we end, is there anything else that you wanted to say? Any questions? Again, anything else we can do to help? Absolutely anything. Oh, you know, there is one thing I forgot to mention as far as what I have uncovered. So you remember the older man picture that was sent to Jenny in 1967? So I was able to run that picture and the picture of the younger Louis through Amazon's facial comparison software.

1:11:35And first, just to test it, I took pictures of my dad from around the same ages, and I made them black and white and ran them through. And it said that it was, you know, because obviously it's not going to be 100%. It said that it was an 80 % chance that it was the same person. Well, when I ran the older man picture and the picture of lewis it was a less than one percent chance that it was the same person uh so which was you know a little rough but i i kind of suspected that um you know it it is very heartbreaking thinking of jenny because you know she fully believed it was him She fully believed it.

1:12:18She had it framed. She put it on the billboard. So that's, you know, so tough to think about. But I think more than likely it was just sent by a detective that just wanted more money. And, you know, unfortunately that happened. And they did have some good private detectives, but, you know, they also had some bad ones as well that just wanted, you know, money from them. And I think that's what happened there. But in a way, it's, you know, a good thing because that picture just was another rabbit hole to go down. Because, you know, the writing on the back of the picture, there's so many theories on it and there's nothing concrete.

1:13:04and, you know, that's just one less thing that I have to consider in, you know, in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, absolutely. I think eliminating a possibility, you know, can be extremely helpful even though it is, you know, painful. Yeah, and I will also say, you know, George and Jenny thought that they saw a picture of Betty in a magazine in 1946. And there are pictures floating around that claim to be the picture, but the reality is that we do not know what the picture is. It's believed that we know that it was sent in 1946 because Marion, their oldest sister, she wrote a letter in January of 1947 to a school in New York asking about the girl in the picture so it's believed that they when they saw the picture they ripped it out of the magazine and they only kept the picture because in the letter she did reference a specific news or newspaper a specific magazine which I was able to track down and buy a magazine from 1946 Can you believe it?

1:14:25It's crazy. But and there's nothing in it that mentions the school that she wrote to. And there's not anything resembling Betty in that magazine. So it's believed that they didn't remember what the magazine was. But we do know it was seen sometime in 1946. but you know just it really any picture that you see circulating like I've seen pictures that claim to be the house I've seen pictures that claim to be all like there's one picture of 10 kids but they're all super blonde and that gets circulated as the solder kids even though every single solder kid had very dark hair. So, you know, I would just be cautious when seeing stuff like that, because just because, you know, like I keep saying this, this story has been circulated for so long.

1:15:30And, you know, people just want to add whatever information they think will get people to read it. And so just be, you know, super cautious in believing stuff like that, unless it comes, Like, I hate to say don't believe it unless it comes from me, but you get what I'm saying. Don't leave things that, you know, every random person says. Like, I got tagged in one thing that every single thing in it was wrong. And they even quoted me as saying something that I, for one, never said, and two, never even talked to whoever this person was, you know. Oh, I hate that. Yeah. Well, unfortunately, my family has had to deal with that for the past 80 years.

1:16:22So. Yeah. I wish more people knew that sometimes people just straight make things up. Just absolutely make things up. And, yeah, it's hard, right? Because how do you balance that? Because if you just say, like, come to me for all the information, people are like, but also, like, again, you have all the information. I don't think there's a person that exists with more information than you, other than maybe somebody who was, like, firsthand involved in the crime. Yeah, for sure. You know, yeah, and, like, I've— tend to not believe things that are only mentioned one time. Like I read one article that said that the family dog went missing and was later found in town.

1:17:13And when I asked their granddaughter about it, she was like, I've literally never heard that before. So, you know, like I said, people just like to add stuff just, you know, because they think it'll, you know, help push the story for whatever reason, which sucks. I don't understand that mindset, but, you know, unfortunately, it does happen. And especially with this case, because of what all is on the internet, it's so hard to tell what is legit and what isn't. Yeah, absolutely. It's so hard to discern what's real and what's not, especially nowadays and with AI. And I could go on about that forever.

1:17:58But yeah, I think you make a lot of great points. And I think everybody should join your Facebook group. Oh, and I'll also say, people bring this up to me a lot too. History's greatest mysteries on the History Channel did one about this. It's not great, unfortunately. laurence fishburn really let me down on that one um but yeah oh yeah it you know it i do appreciate that they focused on the kidnapping aspect more than it being an accident i i will i will give them credit for that. But it's, I know, it's the coverages that I know have the majority of the same information that I do, and they still misrepresent it.

1:18:58That's, you know, if you are covering the case and you don't know, you don't have access to the same documents I do, then I don't fault you for getting stuff wrong because, you know, it's easy to do because there's not accurate information available out there. But if you knowingly get stuff wrong despite having the correct information, that's when I get a little irked about it. And I think that's fair. You know what I mean? I don't think any family in true crime is expecting perfection, right? We all make mistakes. I've told my sister's story wrong. I'm sure you've gotten a thing or two wrong.

1:19:39It happens all the time. But, you know, I spend a lot of time dissecting really these specials, like on the History Channel, right? And I think people don't understand, like, there's a reason why it's not just a news broadcast. Like, this is a production. They're telling a story. They're there to get viewers. They're not always there to tell it extremely accurately. And unfortunately, even in the History Channel, right? I think a lot of us live through the dupe that was that like mermaid's mockumentary or whatever. It's not the same standard as it was when we were watching, you know, the specials in school or whatever.

1:20:18It's these broadcasts, these, you know, documentaries, these programs, whatever they are, they're there for entertainment and that is their first priority and then second it's like getting things right um and I hate to say it but I feel like that's the hard truth of it yeah and you know I've had so many people you know suggest to me that you know you should reach out to this show or this show or you should have a movie made about it and i'm like no i i would not ever do that like i for one you know george and jenny i doubt george and jenny would want that to happen and two i'm not gonna risk you know the getting them getting the story wrong just because they want to sensationalize it.

1:21:16Yeah. I mean, and when you do productions like that, you know, they can make you an executive producer or give you, you know, creative consultation or whatever, but ultimately it's never in your hands and you just have to deal with what they put out. And oftentimes you are contractually obligated to stay silent on that. And I wish more people knew that too. You know what I mean? Like, there's so many reasons to not participate in those programs, and I totally get it. Oh, yeah. Unless you can agree to not only give me full clearance over, you know, approving everything before it's produced, but you can also agree that you are not going to make money off of it and that you'll do, you'll either, you know, donate the money to somebody I wanted to be donated to or, you know, something else, then I would not agree to it.

1:22:11And I know that no production company is going to be like, oh, yeah, we'll make this and not make money off of it. Sure. I was going to say, right, like, let's be real. They wouldn't even agree to just like recouping their costs and breaking even. It's just not the way that it happens. Like, and I love that we're talking about like true crime in the entertainment industry. It's something I'm so passionate about. And I think it's just important for people to realize the reality of it, right? And they can make up their own minds about it, right? Do you think it's okay? Do you think it's not okay to profit off this type of stuff?

1:22:45Like, I think that's kind of for everyone to decide. But knowing how it actually happens behind the scenes is extremely crucial in them making that decision for themselves, right? Like, how is the bacon made? And nine times out of 10 in this industry, it's pretty unethical. It's pretty horrible for the families involved. And it's not just like not getting paid. It's the trauma of it all. It's having to watch this final production that, you know, could be vastly inaccurate. Yes. And I read about that all the time. And, And, you know, like with the Dahmer show that Ryan Murphy did, you know, people, I didn't watch it because the families of the victims were so upset by it.

1:23:39And I think if there's a right way and a wrong way to do it, right? Like if you, and with anything, not just, you know, like movies and TV shows, but with true crime books as well. Like if you do not have the family's interest at heart, then, you know, you really shouldn't be doing it. Like, I don't think that you should be able to profit off of somebody else's tragedy, if that makes sense. you know i think it's hard because i think money rules everything is like the unfortunate reality in our society so i think when you remove that monetary incentive it removes incentive altogether and like if there was no money to be had in true crime i fear that so many of these crucial stories would not be shared when they need to i do think it would lead to less resolutions in these cases but i also think that there has to be a balance and i think that people need to be more honest.

1:24:42You know, if you create something specifically going against the will of a family, you know, then be bold enough to say it and tell your audience that and deal with the consequences of that. I think one of the most harmful things I see is when people know that they are purposely harming a family and disguise it as not that. I think it's fundamentally not honest. I think it's fundamentally, you know, against the victim at the center of the stories. I mean, that's certainly not what they would want. You know, and of course, like there's exceptions, right? You know, if a family is like directly involved and could be like the perpetrators of the case, that's one thing.

1:25:18But like something like this, you know, to your point, I think somebody could make an amazing production following you and what you're doing and then, you know, donate the proceeds to, you know, the flower garden, right? To, you know, some type of beautiful memorial. I think that's one of the ways that we could really get like the best of all worlds in true crime. Yeah, I think, you know, that I mean, that would that would be great. I don't know that I would want people following me around now. I'm not gonna lie to you. I mean, fair. I mean, fair. It is like the worst thing ever. But, you know, I think what I see in you right now is like what I saw in myself in that, like, I had to have a million people tell me like, hey, like, you're a part of this too.

1:26:02And what you're doing matters and people care about what you're doing. That's something I still struggle with today. Like when people are like, no, like we care about you. And I'm like, me? Like, I'm not the missing kid in this story, right? But people, you know, they do care about you and they care about the journey that you go on. And like I said, it's taken me years and I still struggle with it. But I do feel like that's part of the story, too. You know, this like generational curse, for lack of a better word, that families like you and I have to deal with when these cases just go, you know, unsolved or unresolved or without answers for so long.

1:26:42So in short, you know, give yourself credit. I would watch a documentary following you around. But also you have the right to say no thank you. Listen, they'd just be seeing me sitting with my cats the whole time. Cats and a big stack of papers. Yes. Oh, my goodness. A big stack of papers. My binder is so thick. And I haven't even added anything more to it, even though I need to. I just, you know, I kind of did this really quickly. But, you know, I will say that, you know, you have been a huge inspiration for me. Because, you know, I listened to your podcast for a long time before I decided to do this.

1:27:26And, you know, when I finally listened to the coverage that you did on the case, that's when I was like, you know what? I should reach out to her, but I should also start doing it myself. I think that I, you know, because I've played around with the idea for years, but I just never was really ready. And then I finally was just like, you know what, I'm going to do it. I'm going to try. And, you know, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But I've, you know, learned to trust the universe with this. And I know that if something is meant to happen, then it will. And if it's not, then okay. Well, thank you.

1:28:10That really does mean a lot to me. Like always makes me tear up when people say that. I don't know. I love family member led true crime. I think that that is like the most raw and honest, you know, because I think we can easily come in here and say like, we're family. So yeah, of course we're biased. But I also have the best intentions with figuring out the answers in this case. And especially in your case, like you have absolutely nothing to hide. You know, you're so, of course, you're family, right? But you're so far removed with the time of it all. It's like, you know, you just want the answers.

1:28:44And I think when it's such a raw and pure mission like that, it's something that I love to hear about. And I think it's something that people also love to cheer on. So in short, like, you know, I think you're amazing. And, you know, I would support and love to help you do anything you want to do with this case. And I genuinely think people are going to be excited to hear from you, and they're going to want to hear from you more. Like, I would be so fascinated to hear an entire series of you telling this story with all the information that you found.

1:29:19I've toyed around with it a little bit. I'm, you know, maybe one day I would like to do, I certainly would have plenty to talk about. I, you know, I would definitely need to learn how to separate everything just because there is so much talk about. And like, you know, I can I can ramble for, you know, hours about one specific thing. But, you know, maybe I might do it one day. I think it would I definitely think people would love to hear it. Um, you know, I, you know, and I would, whatever advice you would have for me for that, I would love to hear it too. I mean, that's something I could talk about all day and we can, um, we can.

1:30:08Um, but yeah, I think I just, I don't know, I love what you're doing and I want to support in any way I can. And, um, please never hesitate to reach out. And I hope that this interview, you know, will just draw more people to your group and to you and to follow you. You know what I mean? more so than, you know, sharing my episodes or whatever. I'd rather them go to you. So I also have an email since, you know, I am a one-person investigative team. My tip email is the number five and then solderkids at gmail.com. So the number five, S-O-D-D-E-R-K-I-D-S at gmail.com. And, you know, that's for if you, you know, have any tips or, you know, I would really love to see since, you know, the billboard was up for decades.

1:31:02If anybody happens to have any pictures, I would love to see pictures that people have taken. Or, you know, if you if you just have any questions, like that's mainly the emails I've gotten so far is just people asking more questions. And I, you know, as long as I have the time, I'm more than willing to answer them. I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to do this with me. I know that it's not easy. It's not fun, especially this time of year. But I do appreciate it. No, of course. I'm I'm I was so excited to be able to do this. I've I've been hoping that I could get on your podcast for a while because I knew that one, I knew you'd come up with really good questions than you did.

1:31:47And, you know, talking to you is always fun. So. Oh, my gosh, you're so sweet. Anytime, anytime. Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why customers have enjoyed Progressive's Name Your Price tool for years now. With the Name Your Price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, They make it easy to see your options. Visit Progressive.com. Find a rate that works for you with the Name Your Price tool. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates.

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