Speaking with Michael Turney full conversation 2024

24:01Yes. Okay. So, with your background in law enforcement, why did you let me, a 12-year-old, go into Alyssa's room first? I went in with you, Sarah. I went in first, Dad. You might have been first, but I was right with you whenever you picked up the phone. I remember sitting on the desk. I remember the fact that... It wasn't a desk. It was a dresser then, or whatever it was she had there. The dresser right on the left-hand side. That is something I remember being. And what was underneath the cell phone? I don't know if it was underneath it, but the dresser and the note were both right on the list.

24:29The note was folded and right underneath that. It was folded? I don't remember that. I do. I believe you if you say that. I just don't remember that. Okay, so. You heard the buzzing before I did because you entered the room before. It was buzzing, correct? No, I don't remember a buzzing. I mean, you would probably have a better memory of that day than I would, but I don't remember the buzzing. It also would have been really helpful if the police would have interviewed me that day. But that didn't happen, unfortunately. So they had to rely on my memory from seven years later, which is extremely unfortunate.

24:59That's because the Phoenix PD refused to accept Alyssa as an endangered runaway. Okay, so my next question, something that has always confused me, that I didn't learn for a long time, is how you reported Alyssa missing. So again, and it's not just normal parent stuff. It's with your background in law enforcement. So why did you report Alyssa missing in such a way that would not elicit any response? You said, my daughter ran to her aunt's house in California. She's on drugs. With your background in law enforcement, with you being afraid for her safety right then and there, why would you report her missing like that?

25:34In the first place, Sarah, when I called, I got the normal response. And this is law enforcement, which was back then as well as it was when I was in law enforcement. They said, we will not take a report until after at least 24 hours has passed. That was their policy. They said that up front. I insisted. Do you know how long the phone call lasted? No, I don't have that in front of me. 22 minutes. It's on the phone records. Why didn't you say, I think my daughter's in danger. I've been having all these issues with the union. Somebody broke into our house. I'm scared. You didn't say that. Yes, I did.

26:06No, you didn't. Yes, I did. Not according to the police report. Isn't that amazing? Where is the tape recording that I made of that phone call? I have no idea, Dad. Phoenix PD does. It didn't fit the motive, opportunity, and means, Sarah. So that tape recording is missing, as well as the video. You saw me put that camera up the day that Anderson's somershoe came. I already told you. And that's a big concept. I don't appreciate you saying that. I don't remember Anderson's hostility. I don't remember his face turning red. That's convenient, Sarah. Very convenient for the Phoenix Police Department.

26:35Why are you supporting that? I was a teenager. You're saying that I colluded with the Phoenix Police Department as a teenager? But you jump back from I was a teenager to now suddenly I'm an adult and now I'm more intelligent. Sir, you're a very intelligent person, always had been. Very picky on your friends. Alyssa was just the opposite. You were fully aware of your awareness. I had little to worry about your decisions. You made great decisions until you turned into a teenager. Then you got into drugs and you got into that boyfriend of yours that you said you were going to run away with. So in 2017, you told me that you gave Alyssa a cell phone.

27:07Like, what? I don't remember the timeline. within two weeks, probably, that she was gone. You told me that you gave that to me so I could monitor it at age 12. So my question is, why did you believe that I was the best person to monitor Alyssa's cell phone instead of yourself or the police? Because of your intelligence, Sarah, because you also wanted a cell phone. Do you remember the dispute you and Alyssa had and you had with me because you thought I favored Alyssa by giving her a cell phone and not you? Yes, and I admitted that in court. Not the cell phone part. But yeah, of course, I thought Alyssa, I was extremely confused as a child.

27:41And I admit that. I'm not here to lie to you. I'm here to ask you questions. No, you're here to twist things, Sarah. I'm sorry. How is that twisting? Who in their right mind gives the cell phone to the 12-year-old? Especially with a background in law enforcement. Who in their right mind? Why not give it to police? Why not give it to police? Why not give it to the police? What makes you think I didn't offer it to them? Why not monitor it yourself then? No, Sarah. Or one of my four older brothers. Because maybe I was more concerned about your welfare, should something happen to you, that you'd have access to call 911.

28:14You don't think a cell phone's a safety issue? Well, why didn't I have one before then? I don't have any idea, Sarah. Now you're questioning my parental decisions of a man who was in a panic situation because his daughter ran away. Have you ever had someone run away, Sarah, where you were in a panic situation? Yeah. And every decision you made with the next one? Absolutely. Absolutely. My next question is, why didn't we conduct a single search for Alyssa in Arizona? A what? Why didn't we conduct a single search for Alyssa in Arizona? Why didn't we conduct a single search? For Alyssa in Arizona.

28:47Are you crazy? What do you think I was doing? Calling all the people she had in her yearbook? That's not a search. Oh, then what would be the search? I went from door to door. A search party. Like you promised Jessica Case. You said, we're going to do a search party for Alyssa. I'll call you back. And you never did. Maybe it's because you guys didn't want to get involved. Your only involvement was setting up the website for Arizona runaways, as I recall. And creating the flag. I had to coerce, not coerce you, but I had to bribe you to get you to even go with me on the trip to California. I'm not going unless I have Wi-Fi, Dad.

29:22Okay. Okay. I was a child. I was a child. Every excuse you make, Sarah, is because suddenly you've gone from a woman to a child. Your intelligence, Sarah, showed up at a very young age. So why didn't we celebrate Alyssa's birthdays? Honor her at Christmas? Do anything? Seriously. I mean, I was trying to run away from it. I can tell you that for sure. Why didn't we celebrate Alyssa's birthday? Or do anything in her honor. We almost never talked about her. You know for a fact that we didn't celebrate her birthdays. We didn't do anything together. You wouldn't even talk about her. Really? Yeah. Maybe you didn't talk about it.

30:00Maybe I got on the phone and reminded your brothers that today is Alyssa's birthday. Just like I had to remind them when Barbara's birthday. That was your mother. Remember her? You remember what day your mother was born? Yes, Dad. Hmm? Yes, Dad. What day? Do you want to keep it relevant? Are you going to talk about the border drugs? No, I'm asking. Do you remember the day your mother was born? Yes. It's part of my password. It's 1127, Dad. Okay. You think I forgot about my mother? Just because she doesn't come visit me in my prison cell doesn't mean I forgot about her. You don't have to remember your mother, Sarah.

30:29Not when she was alive. You weren't even self-aware to. Why did you throw away all of Alyssa's things after I begged you to keep them? I didn't throw away Alyssa's things. Who took her makeup desk, Sarah? No, there were some things. I wanted you to keep everything. I stole everything from her room. Of course I did. I was her little sister. You took everything. Anything that was left of Alyssa's stuff was put in those trunks. No. Her TV stand that she painted specifically was gone. There were blankets that I remember that were gone. her writings her drawings all that stuff was gone most of her clothing that's why that's not true you talk about the day that i let the phoenix pd into the house and because i told them oh we have storage sheds full of stuff because that's what i was told i didn't go check because i was i know you're gonna be mad that i said that i was a kid but i just trusted you and i said my dad says they're in there so they're in there and then they come and all the stuff's gone where'd it go where did this stuff go sorry you know sir you were there we moved remember alissa ran away from the house across the street that we were renting and i bought the house across the street so in case she came back now all of her property was moved out of that house to where to the house across the street no because it was gone i moved everything when you went to prison i saved every single thing of alissa's property for quite a few years when the penis pd got there whatever was missing, you had consumed or a subject into your life.

31:56What did I do with the TV stand that she painted? How do I consume that? And somehow it disappears. I don't have any idea, Sarah, about TVs. I'm more concerned with looking for my daughter. Who took you down for the DNA testing, Sarah? Was that Detective Anderson, your new daddy? Did he take you down to do it? Did Murphy come and get you? Who took you and John down to the downtown Phoenix office for the DNA testing? I can stop this interview right now if you're not going to be civil. I am being civil. You're the one that's being hostile. Calling Detective Anderson my daddy. Grow up. What are your holiday traditions?

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33:06I didn't change my mind. Your sister made poor decisions, Sarah, because she was easily influenced. I'm pretty sure that you said that she couldn't read a phone book. And now you're saying that she could easily survive on her own. I taught all of you children how to use a phone book when it was applicable, and Alyssa could not get it right. So what changed? What do you mean, what changed? Why do you—you said one thing before, and now you're saying a different thing. That didn't say anything, Sarah. Again, you're taking things out of context. That's not true at all. Yes, it is. You're absolutely twisting the stuff around.

33:37I would take that as a non-answer like everything else. You know, you can't believe everything that Finney Speedy told you, Sarah. Dad, I'm going off your statements. I'm not going off— So you said that Alyssa took a large amount of money from our Disneyland fund before she went missing, right? That's what Jamie Jackson yelled at me about in court, right? Did we have a Disneyland fund, sir? Yeah, we had a change fund. Absolutely. So how much did she take from that Disneyland change fund? Well, I didn't keep an exact accurate account, but it could have been anywhere between$500,$600,$700,$800. I don't remember the exact amount.

34:07Do you remember the last time? It was a hell of a lot more than$300 that she said she took. Do you remember the last time we went to Disneyland before Alyssa went missing? No, I don't. I don't remember. I think there was some pictures I remember that I've seen all over the Internet when all of us both were standing there. Yeah, me, you, Mike, John, Alyssa. Oh, yeah, okay. So that was two months before she went missing. So you're saying in a matter of about eight weeks, we were able to save$700,$800 and change? Sir, we started saving all. Do you remember cashing in aluminum cans? So we didn't use the Disneyland fund or did we?

34:40Because I'm confused. I'm not saying we didn't save for Disney I'm saying how did she take$800 out of there? We just went to Disney Where did this change come from? That's a lot of money in eight weeks So what you're saying is the chronology is that the money from what we supposedly saved was used two months before we went to Disneyland Well if it was the Disneyland fund I would assume that we used it for Disneyland I don't remember. I didn't have to pay for anything so it wasn't really my concern. Again, you don't know the financial situation. How do you know when Mike didn't pay for it? Okay.

35:16So you're saying that we did not use the Disneyland fund? Apparently we didn't. Okay. But you're saying that Alyssa took that$300 as well? Well, that's what she said in her note. I don't know what she took, Sarah. Okay. Well, John says that he was called into that situation because you caught Alyssa taking $300 and made her give it back. So is John lying about that? That was the year before, whenever Alyssa was doing drugs, around the same time she wanted to leave, when we were at the house. Somebody broke into the strong box and took out quite a few dollars, the exact amount I'm not sure of. I thought it could have been anybody except I eliminated you because I didn't know why you'd do it.

35:53All you had to do was ask for it and you got it. I stole money from you before. Remember when I went to Peter Piper? I took like$100 from you, went to Peter Piper and got all the coins. I don't remember. I'd taken money from you. I don't remember. I do. I admit it. I trusted you. You gave Alyssa all my coins. I remember I was bummed out about it. I did? Yeah. You're holding me responsible for that? I'm just, no. Did Alyssa ever attack you physically? I'm taking responsibility. Did you ever attack Alyssa physically? Nope. Did you tie her to a bed and gag her? No. Oh, it was a chair, right? Hmm?

36:24It was a chair, right? Not a bed. Of what? What did you tie her to? What did I tie one Alyssa to? Okay. What in the hell are you talking about? So, I mean, either everybody's lying or you're lying. It's not an all or none, Sarah. It's whether or not people were there. Why did you make me the family contact for police? I still don't understand. Why did I want? Why was I made the family contact for police? That would be between you and John. No, I mean, you asked me. No, I did not. John didn't ask me at all. Whenever I decided to stop being the contact person because of the way the Phoenix PD was not conducting their investigation, John became the contact person.

37:02That's in writing, sir. That's also on a tape recorder. No, I know John was at one. He admitted that in court, yeah. John decided he didn't want it, I guess, apparently, whatever you and he worked out. I wasn't there whenever he decided to give it to you. Whoa, see? You didn't know that, huh? Yeah, I do. I remember just thinking, why would I give it to you, Sarah? You don't need to mock me. You can't assume what I'm feeling based on my facial expression. Oh, really? So you can just knock that off. Yeah, no, because you sat me down and you said that you were too sick and that you couldn't handle it.

37:32And I said, of course I'll do it. You don't remember that? No, Sarah, you didn't want anything involved with that. In fact, you were upset because I was doing it. One of the negotiations we made, Sarah, was about whenever you ran away, you wanted me to stop spending all the time searching for your sister. That is completely fabricated. No, it's not. Completely. Okay, well, I can call in that boyfriend and we can talk about that if you'd like. Which boyfriend? The one where you said when you had to call in the police. I'm still in contact with him. Well, that's good. His name is Brian. Really? He was an adult.

37:59His dad is still alive. Does he still supply the drugs for you like he was? I don't know why you let me move in with an 18-year-old meth dealer. I mean, I was 15. I didn't let you move in with him. I mean, you didn't care. I let Nick move in with you. Is Nick a drug dealer? I don't know. That was part of the deal. You wanted the master bedroom. You wanted the liquor. You wanted the marijuana. You are not saying that part of the deal was I got the master bedroom. You moved me into the master bedroom immediately after Alyssa was gone. You said, I do not want you walking around in a towel, so you call CPS or somebody else does and accuse me of sexual assault.

38:30Don't you dare flip that on me. And then when we moved into the new house, you said, of course, you get the master bedroom for the same reason. So how hostile you're becoming. I'm not hostile. You're trying to gaslight me, and you're continuing your abuse, and I'm not taking it. What does gaslight mean? Look it up. Boy, Sarah, you're just absolutely nasty. I mean, as I said. This is not an interview. This is not a mutual exchange. You're making me defend myself. Why did you refuse to go to the police station for a formal interview? It's simply because Anderson would not let me bring my own video equipment.

39:02Point blank. So are you willing to do that now? To interview with, not Anderson, but just the Phoenix Pinsman? Am I here with you right now? I mean, this is not an interview, sir. This is an interrogation. I told you I had questions. These are my questions. You don't have questions, sir. You're hostile. You're trying to twist this around again. These are straightforward questions without twist. I was found not guilty because your buddy did not have. You were not found not guilty. You were acquitted. So are you willing to interview with the Phoenix Police Department? It's the same thing. Are you willing to interview with the Phoenix Police Department?

39:31With the Phoenix Police Department? I don't have anything to do with the Phoenix Police Department. I've called them trying to get my personal property back. Okay. Would you be willing to interview with the FBI? I tried to get that too, and they refused. The question is... Excuse me, not refused. They have not responded. So would you be willing to interview with a law enforcement organization of any kind? why not it depends on what it's about it would obviously be about alissa what do you mean what do you mean about alissa alissa's thing is over with sarah that trial is done well they have the number one suspect was not guilty so what okay because as i read the police file in different statements this is about you trying to regenerate another investigation of me over alissa i am asking you questions that I want to know the answer to.

40:23Just stick with the questions, Sarah. Stop asking me questions like, are you willing to sit down with the Phoenix Police Department? Because I want to know. Are you willing to do this? Last time you said that you had to do it live on TV with Canadian operators and you wanted to interview the judge on your bomb case, John Walsh, me, your whole family. Yeah, I think that'd be the best idea because there's a lot of lying going on here and it ain't me. Okay, I'll take a polygraph if you will. I told that to you years ago. You're going to pay for it to the Phoenix PD, eh? I'll pay for it. So, again, one of my questions is, Because all I have to go off of are statements from other people, my memory.

40:55These are my only tools, Dad. So there are so many different stories about the video of the last day. There was no video, Sarah. So if there was no video, what did you show John? I asked John as a witness to look at the video, okay, to see if there was anything in there, a past of a day before that, a week before that. The last time I used that eight-hour tape, the same way as I told Detective Schoenfelder, all of which was put in writing. At least probably twice a month, I sent him written reports, all of which disappeared, according to Detective Anderson. Oh, so you did keep in constant contact with the police, is that?

41:37With Dr. Sean, or excuse me, Detective Seanfield, yes, I did. And also his supervisor named Sergeant Bob White, who was investigating the little girl who was viciously murdered and said he didn't have time, didn't have enough staff to look into my case. Also refused to allow me to get the phone number of this I call from, which they had the power. Okay, so what I'm confused about is because apparently Officer Mark Daly with the Phoenix PD sent a postcard to our home in January 2004 because you never told them that you changed your phone number. They didn't have a way to get a hold of you. So if you're communicating with them every two months, how does that happen?

42:18With who? He seems like a random, I haven't seen him a lot in the case file, Officer Mark Daly sent you a postcard, sent us a postcard to them. Because they didn't have contact information. I don't remember exactly, Sarah. I changed my phone number for a number of reasons other than that from time to time because of harassing phone calls and what have you. Wouldn't you want the police to have your number, though? What's that? Wouldn't you want the police to have your number for Alyssa? So the police always had a number, whether they lost it or not, just like they lost the dental records of Alyssa the first time.

42:50Did you read that in the report? So you're saying that they lost it? Apparently they must have if they sent me a card saying they didn't have it. Okay. No, I remember I read the report where you gave dental records. I don't understand why you would think, Sarah, that I wouldn't want them to be able to at least get a hold of if something came up. Did you ever look at the dead body pictures and stuff that they sent me? I don't think that the pictures are in the file. Are you talking about the one that was burnt up in a dumpster that I learned from Tara? I'm talking about the other ones, too. The Green River one associated came from there as well as the others that the Phoenix PD never followed up on.

43:19And I had to call the agencies and convince them that the Phoenix PD is not in contact with me and cooperating with me and marches to my investigation to search for Alyssa. That went on all the time. Those tape recordings are also missing. Okay. Why did you tell so many different stories about Alyssa's last day? And what reference is that, Sarah? What different stories did I tell? Well, Linda Kramer says that you told her that Alyssa, you like dropped her off at the movies and she left with a biker. Linda Kramer, again, says a lot of things that differ with me. I don't know why she said that. I have no idea.

43:55Why would I even say that? You don't think Linda Kramer loved Alyssa? I don't have any idea. All I know is that when it came time, when I asked Linda to take Alyssa for a period of time because I didn't want it completely messing up your life as well, Linda eventually said no. Why did you tell a neighbor that Alyssa was on vacation? Are you talking about Judy, the bomb expert? No, I would tell you if it was Judy. I would tell you if it was Judy. I don't have any idea, Sarah. I remember Judy Wacker. I would tell you if it was Judy. All I know is that the Phoenix PD told them a lot of bad things about me, how weird I was and strange, and I wasn't normal before they even talked to these people.

44:32Because all these people told me that, which I tape-recorded all those interviews, Sarah. Just like all of Alyssa's friends, all of those were taped. All of those were available to the Phoenix PD if and when they asked for them and they wanted them. And they were told that in letters, which is probably the reason why they disappeared. When you're trying to build a motive, opportunity, and means by a police department, Sarah, you can't have those kind of things in there because it destroys your timeline. It destroys whatever you're trying to object to. I mean— No, you have quite the law enforcement background, which is why a lot of these things are so shocking.

45:05No, Sarah, I remember these things because I don't trust the Phoenix Police Department. I never have. So why did you give John Lackman a random number to call saying that he could reach Alyssa there? You know, he called it every day that summer. I have no idea. I gave him Lynette his phone number. No, because Lynette didn't get calls from John. Neither did Teresa. I don't understand. Maybe he copied it down wrong. Maybe he did something wrong. I don't have any idea. He was asked because I thought your aunt and them were hiding Alyssa. If he wanted to do me a favor, call the aunt and see if he could talk to Alyssa.

45:38That seemed like a good logical thing for me to do. Do you remember us sitting outside your house, Sarah? No, but I do remember you talking about that. I have a few memories of when we went to Cal. I can't even tell you if it was once or twice. I remember you renting the car and you saying that it was always your dream to drive up the Pacific Coast Highway in a white convertible. No. Do you remember what kind of car we ran? It was a white convertible, a Mustang, I believe. And I know that you said that that was because Alyssa liked that car, and I agree, yes. Did you know that that was Alyssa's favorite car?

46:08She also wanted a white Jeep from Clueless. So, yes, I was familiar with those things. However, do you remember making that statement? I have always wanted to drive up the Pacific Coast Highway. That has always been my dream. And then we did it. Because at the time, it was a great memory. I lived on the Pacific Coast, Sarah, and I drove up and down that. When did you live in California, Dad? In Santa Barbara for over a year. When? What year? Let me see. It would have been, let's see, where I was drafted. So that would have been probably 1967. Oh, so. So why would I always want to draft a family?

46:43Because in your bomb case, you told the judge that you did not go to Vietnam and you were not drafted.

46:51You know what? Sarah, you want to go over all this history. Have you ever read Project 100 ,000? Can you answer? Tell me, have you ever asked? We can't have an intelligent conversation. No, because you want to answer the question. What question are you looking for, Sarah? I am on question 13. You have not answered a single one. Why did you buy that second truck and not tell anybody? What second truck? Your vehicle was sold shortly after Alyssa went missing, and then you bought a nearly identical one. And I had no idea. I traded it in for two Nissans. Your brother, Mike, had wrecked the Ford pickup.

47:27Do you remember the red Ford pickup we had that David burned the engine up on? No. Do you remember the red pickup at all? No. You remember the engine going bad? Okay, well, I gave once... I remember the green truck. I remember the CRX. But I don't remember the red truck. I remember John... No, Mike had a red truck when he came back from the Army, right? No, that's the one that I gave him. But that was years before Alyssa went missing. I'm not talking about that. I don't know about years. But anyway, Mike was given that truck. He wrecked that truck. So why did you sell your vehicle right after this was gone?

47:58Bated because it got about nine miles of the gallon, Sarah. And I had a lot of searching to do. But you bought nearly an identical one. No, I did. You didn't buy one that, like, saved more fuel. It was, like, just, like, a model different or something. I brought a Nissan Green Frog, as you guys called it, and a white Frontier, which was the exchange for that 2001 four-wheel drive, which was a rare truck at that time. Okay. It was a white truck, Sarah. The other one was Mike's, the one that he got that he made payments on me, too. Yeah, it was a white truck when Alyssa went missing, and then you bought a nearly identical one.

48:29But I didn't know the difference because I just didn't care. That's because you don't pay attention. That's true. I'm not observant. And that's one of my biggest... Oh, no, you're very observant, but the details of the interest you.

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50:03Oh, a quad. The little vehicle. Yeah, that's one of them. That was given to us by the neighbor just to our south. So I put it together and put those vehicles in there. The rest, again, contained a great deal, many of documents and tape recordings that I made over all the years, which a lot pertained to the City of Phoenix Police Department. Oh, I'm sure. No, and I believe you, Dad. I have a picture of, after the police raided the house, there's this picture of the ground. And I don't know, I just, by happenstance, took it. I think I just, because you might have told me to, or I might have just done it on my own.

50:33But I took pictures all around the house. And I saw either your cell phone or Alyssa's cell phone sitting on the ground. So I'm right there with you that they didn't do a good job when they raided the house. I am not happy with how they did that. 100%. My question is, though, they found a receipt from a storage unit from an all-state self-storage for 211-04. And I didn't know about that. So there was room in the shed. Why did you have a storage unit and what was in it? I don't even remember having a private storage shed. What for? I don't know. But it was, I mean, it wasn't mine. It was all-state self-storage for February 11, 2004.

51:16You had a storage unit. I don't know why I would rent a storage. I didn't have one. I had three sheds out back. So that receipt is also fabricated? I don't have any idea what is fabricated. All I know is I don't remember it. Why would I have a storage shed? It didn't make any sense. I know. That's my question. I had two out back. We got Shed City out back. Why do we need a third bedroom in that house that we bought? And the house is all full of crap anyway with the boxes everywhere. So that's why I was like, that's really weird. These are genuine questions, Dad. Whoa, wow. Wow. Genuine questions.

51:48For what, Sarah? What's it leading up to? Me? I want to know. For what purpose? What do you need to know when I had a story set? I can make sense of my childhood because, like you said, you told me one thing, the police told me another thing. I'm reading these case reports. I'm trying to reconcile my memories. No, you're not. What am I doing then?

52:09Sarah, I think you're still suffering a great deal from abandonment because you don't remember your mother. Of course I am. I'm extremely traumatized. You've had that for a long, long time. You harassed your friends with it. At least you had a mother. They always complained about Renee and Tara. They didn't understand. They thought I was a great dad. How many of those people did I molest, Sarah, when they came over time after time after time? I have my questions about Tara. Yeah, I'm sure you do. Even if Tara told you the truth, you wouldn't believe her. Okay. I mean, I don't know why you took her out to the movies and restaurants and stuff without me.

52:44But so what did you do with all that concrete and lye you bought? What did I do with all the concrete? Well, I was fencing, fixing the fence posts that were snapping off at the rental place as well as the one that we had. Why did you do that at a rental house? That's not your response. I don't even think you could do that. You remember the dogs, just the Indian people that lived just south of us on the rental property? No. You don't remember how vicious they were? Junkyard dogs? How if you went near the fence, they would attack? I didn't want that post to have that fence fold down with those dogs back there.

53:18But it's a rental property. So? Are you even allowed to do that? Yes, you are. Oh, okay. So you have to dig up the concrete post where it snapped off from the wood that was implanted in it. Then you have to pour concrete back in it. Oh, okay. So we should find concrete there that was poured around that year. Well, they were instant or what do they call it? Right, but they can do tests for that to see when it was poured. Oh, they already did all that stuff, Sarah? No, they never tested for concrete because they asked me, were there any projects at that house? And I said, no, it was a rental because they asked if we poured the patio, I believe, or some slab there.

53:51And I was like, not that I remember. Because remember, there were hands in the concrete and they were from the previous owners because I thought it was like so cool. I do remember that. Yeah. What about the lie? The what? The lie. The lie. I've always had lie around there. But it was like you returned like 20 pounds or something like that's a lot. I don't know what the bag contents are on lime, sir. Did you ever ask why I used lime? You told me it was for ants at one time. That's right. But I'm saying that's a big amount. It's also for ticks. Now, lime away. No, lye. No, I'm talking about lime away.

54:28And you haven't answered my question about lye. So I'm just trying to stay on the topic. I had it around for the concrete because it makes it harder when you pour the mix. Usually when you do these pre-mix things there, it's cheap concrete. It doesn't hold up as well as it should. But so knowing how concrete works, if you add lime, not only does it make it stronger, but it also dries quicker. Okay. So if we test the concrete that houses would have that in it. As well as for the ants because it's cheaper than lime away was. Right. So we'll find that chemical composition if we test that concrete.

54:58I don't have any idea, Sarah, what you'll find, whether you find it or not. Do you still think it's possible that John forged the note? John who? Our brother John. My brother John. that your brother John forged Alyssa's note? Yeah. Are you serious? Yes. In 2008, you spoke with Charmaine Ashworth. You remember her from the Phoenix PD? And you were upset that I had to rewrite the note, and you explained that they missed an opportunity to have John rewrite the note because he was a very talented artist and may have forged it. Oh, God, Sarah. That's what I'm reading. Are you saying that they— Are you going down the avenue that your own brother would write that note?

55:36No, I don't believe that. He's the only one that told the truth. I'm pulling off your words. On a stand, Sarah. You didn't tell the truth. So did the Phoenix Police Department lie about this in the document? About what? About they said that you were frustrated and said that they missed an opportunity to have John rewrite the note. They said you said that. So are you saying that that's a lie, that you did not say that? About anything the Phoenix PD said, Sarah, was pretty much a lie. You were coached. Do you understand what coaching means, Sarah? This is 2008 when I still believed you. when I still believed you.

56:08Sarah, I don't think you ever believed in day one about anything. Why did I waste my early 20s helping you with your mom child? Because you blamed me for the death of your mother. That wasn't even in my mind at that time, Dad. You said that in your own interview, Sarah, at the coffee shop. Good try. That's the timeline. You blamed me for the loss of your mother and the loss of your sister, Sarah. You said that yourself. I'm talking about 2008. Stay in chronological order, Dad. In 2008, you said that to Officer Charmaine Ashworth or they're lying about it. These are the two possibilities. You either said it or they fabricated that police report.

56:41Let's put it this way. I don't remember, but I saw a lot of their police reports that contained a great many of inaccurate statements. What did Rhett move for you after you got arrested in 2020? What did what? What did Rhett move for you after you got arrested in 2020? I don't understand the question. When you were arrested, you had a plan. Rhett knew that when you would get arrested, if you got arrested, that he needed to move certain items for you. That's what Rhett told me. So what did he move for you? No, we set up a trust account. So what items did he move for you? Rhett didn't move any items.

57:15What he did is he set up the program so that I would receive money while I was in jail. So did Rhett, because I talked to Rhett the day you got arrested, and he told me that he was moving some items for you. Was Rhett lying? I don't know what Rhett said it. I wasn't there when Rhett said it to you. That's between you and Rhett, Sarah. Okay. But Rhett was put in charge of all of my property, which you did an excellent job to make sure it was taken care of. As I was told, you guys advised him, you being you and Mike and the rest of them, stated that what you should do is just take the key, throw it in the house, and just go ahead and lock the door.

57:52And to hell with Dad. I didn't even know you had a condo until after the trial. um okay so right you don't know anything about red saying that okay um i don't have what has relevance about it so during your bomb trial you alluded to you you basically said that red may have planted the bombs in your house it's a question i had because you and i remember the dog remember the large dog door being broke yeah and we talked about this that it was that boyfriend that you didn't like brian he snuck in through the dog door which you accused him of early on and i was like no because i was lying so i don't know who broke into that door i know it was broke.

58:26Yeah, and I told you that it was my boyfriend. And we had pictures, according to my cameras, of someone going over that wall. Yes, and that was my boyfriend. We've talked about this several times. Oh, he fits the description of Anderson as well. Anderson's a generic-looking guy. This is when I was 15. This is before they even started reinvestigating. How would I know, Sarah? I couldn't verify who it was. I don't even remember the conversation with you saying it was your boyfriend. You've previously said that Rhett planted those bombs. You are now saying on your YouTube channel that Mike and I planted the bombs.

58:53No. Do you believe that Mike and I planted the bombs in your house? In my house? No. A hundred feet from my head? Why would I say that you planted the bombs? It's on your YouTube channel. You said that. The YouTube channel has to do with what the prosecutor for the federal government offered me during negotiations. No. Yes, no. You say. You say. That would be my son, Michael, or my daughter, Sarah, that planted the bombs. He said somebody has to go to jail, Sarah. That would have been you and Mike. So you're denying that that is on your YouTube channel right now on the internet, Dad? I'm not denying some of you, but you're taking it out of context.

59:26No, I'm not. You were saying that I and Mike planted the bombs. I did not say you planted the pipe bombs. Okay. That's a lie, Sarah. Pull it up and show me exactly where I said you and Mike planted the plastic pipe bombs. Okay. Let's get it for the viewers. I want to see where it said I planted it. You planted it. Excuse me. Let me see if I can remember which video it was. I told you about the offer that I was made by the prosecution and one of the reasons I took the plea agreement. Plus, the federal district judge denied my rights or my motions to protect the evidence that Phoenix PD continues to not release, which is my tape recordings of every conversation I had with them showing that they lied on their affidavits and lied to the grand jury.

1:00:13So if it's not here now, I will have a screenshot of it. Yeah, all your descriptions for your videos are... All this for your podcast show, sir? No. Are you paying for all these people? No. Video. I am not. You're not? Oh, okay. Why are all your descriptions deleted for your YouTube channel? Why is what? You used to have all these descriptions on your YouTube channel, and now they're all deleted for each of your... Oh, here we go. Here we got one. Let's see.

1:00:43You're taking things out of context, sir. Oh, right here. Okay. This is from your YouTube channel right now that is live on the Internet. Thank you. Okay. You didn't like the cross-examination Jamie did, did you? He held you to the truth.

1:01:03For the record, the federal prosecutor stated, quote, PPD found some plastic pipe bombs in your house, so someone has to go to prison, end quote. That would have been Sarah and her brother, Michael Seth Turney. Correct. Did I say planet in that? That's what you're alluding to. Looting has nothing to do with it, Sarah. It has to do with what did I say? Did I say planting, Sarah? You just said in front of these people. How are you going to edit that out, Sarah? So if you didn't make the bombs, why do you have an entire plan outlined to use them in your manifesto? Why did I have an entire plan to use what?

1:01:35The bombs. Use plastic pipe bombs, Sarah? So if you didn't make them, who wrote that manifesto? I wrote the manifesto. So you're saying that you didn't make the bombs, but also had this plan to use them, and that's completely unrelated. No, Sarah, my plan would have included dynamite. Dynamite does a lot of damage. Plastic pipe bomb does not. You didn't answer my question. I just asked you a question. No, you didn't. What was your question, direct? So you're saying that you did not make those plastic pipe bombs. I did not make those plastic pipe bombs. But you wrote about using explosive devices, and those two things are completely separate.

1:02:09They're certainly different. You know anything about plastic, Sarah, and about the pressure? Why do you think they make metal for a shotgun, for cartridges and things, Sarah? Why don't they use plastic? It doesn't build enough pressure. You and all the rest of you people think that somehow that's going to level the whole neighborhood. So you have such a reliance on physical evidence in Alyssa's case. That's been your big thing. There's no body. There's no crime scene. Not mine. That's the defense, Sarah. I wasn't even aware about as much detail as you think about nobody, no crime scene. Okay. So I guess my thing is, what evidence do you have that Alyssa was sex trafficked?

1:02:50Because that's what you say. I have none. Besides statistics. Okay, so you have no evidence for that. I have no evidence. Okay. What evidence that the Phoenix PD produced, Sarah, that Alyssa was dead? At least four women have come forward with allegations of sexual assault against you dating back to the 1970s. Are you denying each and every one of those allegations? I'm denying them all, Sarah. I've listened to about probably 50 of those since I can remember. A lot of women get upset when you reject them, Sarah. Wow. That is such a born in 1948 statement. Some things never go out of style, like trust, reliability, and driving a Toyota.

1:03:28Take the legendary Tacoma and Tundra, perfect for work and adventures. Hurry in. Offers end November 3rd. Toyota. Let's go places.

1:04:07Do you believe you manipulated your children while raising them? No. I directed my children and convinced them what was the good decisions and bad decisions. You didn't play mind games? Mind games. What do you call a mind game, Sarah? I'm asking you. You mean coach them like Anderson did? So you didn't manipulate your children. Do you recall... You're using the wrong term, Sarah. Did I guide and direct my children with good decisions and make good decisions? Yes, I did. Okay. Did I use parental guidance for my children? Yes, sir. But you said you did. Did I manipulate them? Okay. All of you were taught to do your own thing.

1:04:45Why are you acting the way you are, sir? If you were so manipulated, why are you even challenging me? Because I finally escaped the cult. Whoa, the occult. Okay, now you're calling my family an occult. That's how you've been talking to James. It's also my family, Dad. Well, you've already separated yourself from your family. donor doesn't mean that you're a part of this family anymore. So do you remember writing a letter to Alyssa when she was living with Mike and John? It's dated for May 27, 2000. And these are your words, quote, all parents use manipulation and play mind games with their children, end quote.

1:05:18That's the time that I use, Sarah. You know, my lack of terminology using manipulation, and that's probably it. If that's what you're looking for, you were manipulated so badly, Sarah. I mean, you know. Do you think Alyssa was afraid of you? No, not like you guys keep saying she was. Because you told me before that you don't remember fear in Alyssa's eyes, but you remember defiance. So you don't think Alyssa was afraid of you. You don't know. You don't even, Sarah, I'm amazed that you even spent the time you did with Alyssa. Who's the one that taught you to get on the roof and jump off that roof?

1:05:50Was that your fearsome, I'm scared to death, Alyssa? Alyssa wasn't afraid of hardly anything, Sarah. Okay. So in that same letter dated May 27th, do you recall writing to Alyssa your words, quote, I am so sorry you were afraid of me, end quote. That had to do with Alyssa telling people, you know, I'm afraid my dad's going to kill me, which is every statement that you made, everybody else makes. Right there, you just said it. Oh, there you go, Sarah. I just said it. Ear spot, guys. Earmark that one. Come on, Sarah. What is wrong? Is your career that important that you're going to manipulate this into a lie?

1:06:24You've destroyed your own family. You're helping destroy. Your brothers and sisters don't want to talk to you because you keep continuously bringing up these lies. You even bring up things that they say, Dad, how can Sarah remember? She wasn't even there. Well, that's between me and them, right? And no. That's between you and them. They talked to me. You're the one that's making us into national news, Sarah. You're the one making us into national news. Oh, I'm sorry. Did you sit down with ABC 2020 and Dateline? Yes, I did. Because I didn't. So who's making it national news? I haven't done a single major media interview since the trial.

1:06:58You have. You've done everything you can. So who's making it news, me or you? Yes, because I want to keep the situation alive, as suggested by my attorneys. There you go. It was their idea. They set both of those things up. I didn't ask for them. They said, it's a good idea if you want to get out your word, which I tried to get out. But NBC and ABC, like you, edited things out that were pertinent. I edited out things about the children from our 2017 conversation. Are you manipulated to fit your little thing just like you did with the rest of it? I didn't. Okay. Whatever you want to say. Do you remember crying and telling me, Daddy, I need you to get Zappala?

1:07:32Or no, what was her name? Zappian or something? What was her name? Zappala. I remember asking you to do ABC 2020 and then you hung up on me. I didn't hang up. I don't remember hanging up. I remember you. There's a recorded call. One of the times that you continued on when I was at Walmart and I had things to do. You kept going on and harping on stuff that you wanted to record. You said, thank you for doing media. Thank you. You thanked me for everything I was doing. Do you remember that? I thanked you for the fact that you kept attention on Alyssa. Yes. And I said, we would get so much more attention if you would just help me.

1:08:06Please help me. And then you hung up on me. I wanted you to do 2020. I told you they wouldn't do it without you. That was before you were arrested. That was our... Was that our coffee shop? No, that was our 2019 conversation. 2018. 2019. When did we make the coffee shop one? 2017. 2017. That was the year you got out of prison, I believe. Oh, yeah, that's the reason. The one after that's when Mike wouldn't let me see his boys because you went ahead and put nippets on it. As you would say, that's between you and Mike. No, that's not between me and Mike. It's because you deliberately want to do. You don't want your brothers talking to me.

1:08:37You don't want your brothers helping me. I want people on a list as sorry. You even condemn your own brother, Rhett, who's been most helpful to you on everything. He did more for you than anybody did. I text Rhett and said, I am not in a place to forgive you right now for supporting Dad when you did not support me. I am heartbroken. That's what I text Rhett. Because that's the truth. No, he's not doing what you want him to do because you're trying to manipulate him for your career, Sarah. But I don't talk to him. Are you making money off of this, Sarah? Your whole career is based on your sister's tragedy.

1:09:07That's sick, Sarah. Okay, Deb. So when you write your book, is that going to come out for free? What? You're going to write a book, you say, on your YouTube channel. So are you charging people for that book? According to the producers that I've talked to, Sarah, They told me if I'm going to make, if I'm figuring on making money off of one book, then I can forget that. Okay, so when you write a book, it's going to come out for free? No, it's not going to come out for free. They're going to want to make money, Sarah. Okay, so you're going to make money off of it. Or they're not going to do that.

1:09:33Okay, so we're doing the same thing. No, we're not, Sarah. Okay. I don't draw a salary like you do. With six figures, the last figure I heard, it's you're making your whole career based off of nothing but the tragedy of Alyssa, your own sister. That's not true. True. I just launched my most successful show yet that had nothing to do with Alyssa. Actually, last week. Well, I mean, who pays your salary? I pay my salary. What are you talking about? I am self-employed. You're self-employed. And how do you get your money self-employed? How do you get your money? How'd you buy your condo? Very simply, a workers' comp settlement.

1:10:03Yeah, right. You sued. Just like the questions you want to ask me aren't related to Alyssa. It's all related about your lawsuit. What lawsuit? I don't know. The one that the news contacted me about that I didn't interview for because I don't want to interview about Alyssa. They contacted me and said, your father's suing the state. Oh, the lawsuit against the city of Phoenix for their collusion and punishment before due process of the county jail. Yeah. Without any substantial evidence, as the judge said. Remember that guy, Sam Myers? Yeah. Oh, I want to talk to you about that, too. No physical evidence.

1:10:38Sam Myers said no substantial evidence, which you don't even know what the definition of it is. He said the state did not present their case. And as you watched in my interview, because you said that you watched my interviews, I said I agree with that. The state didn't present their case. I argue that they could have. And why didn't they, Sarah? Because they sucked at their job. Because they were so busy with the Brian Patrick Miller case, they started working on Alyssa only like two weeks before. How about they didn't have any evidence to produce, Sarah? That's what you believe. That's not what I believe.

1:11:03I know what you don't believe because your objective here is to interrogate your own father because you're trying to get ratings. Maybe you just lost one of your sponsors. So now you want to get some ratings. But I finally got my father to sit down with me. Am I going to get to the truth of this? You don't even know what happened, sir, because you weren't there. They asked me. You're asking questions. They said, what do you expect out of this? I said nothing. Are you talking? Who's they? You're talking about New Times. The crew all around us. You're talking about New Times. No. New Times is the last interview and the only one I did about the lawsuit.

1:11:32No. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about right here, right now. I said they asked me this crew right here. Oh, these guys did? Yeah, they said, what do you expect going into this meeting with your dad? And I said nothing. It's an argument. But it's an unwinnable case because they went ahead and put it in the federal district court. Dad, we're not in a courtroom. This is me and you talking. But you're so hostile, Sarah. It's hard for me to watch. You asked for the hug. You want me to come in here and hug you? Dad, even if Alyssa didn't go missing, just based off my childhood and how I was treated, I wouldn't hug you.

1:12:02That you've disowned me as your father. You don't love your father anymore. Dad, when's the last time we talked? What do you mean disowned you? This is, Dad, this blood doesn't mean anything to me. I know it means a lot to you. It doesn't mean anything to me. Sir, did you try and get odor protection after the trial was over and I was freed? I was told that I couldn't. Oh, that's true. You couldn't because there's no grounds to get it. Did you try and get one? I wanted to to protect myself because I get afraid of you. At night when there's a bump, I get scared of you. I don't know why I attacked you, Sarah.

1:12:32How many times have I even spanked you when you were a kid? I don't know, Dad. How many pills did you give me when I was growing up? See, Siri, look at you. You're talking about sliding the question. I'm asking you how many times were you actually physically spanked as a child? I don't know. I remember talking back. Remember, I talked back to you when you told me to clean my room and you slapped me across the face. And I came to you crying. You're asking me genuinely. This is my memory. And I came to you crying. I was like, can I watch TV while I clean my room? And then you hugged me and said that you were so sorry.

1:13:03And I don't think that that, I wouldn't consider that extreme physical abuse. But when you ask, that's the first memory that came to my mind. That's my honest answer. Your memory is selective, Sarah. I've never slapped you or Alyssa. No, I was talking back and you slapped me across the face. The only one who got more spanking than anybody than Brett. Because it scared me because you didn't do that to me because I was extremely spoiled. That's what I remember. All my friends thought I was spoiled. You're fabricating for your audience. What am I fabricating? You're going to cut that out of two? You're going to edit that too, Sarah?

1:13:29What am I fabricating? What? Am I fabricating that I was spoiled? What's that got to do with you saying that you were slapped? I'm like trying to meet you in the middle here, Dad, and you can't even hear it. I'm trying to meet you in the middle. You're looking for reviews and increasing your... Okay, if you're just going to sit here and talk terribly about me because, Dad, the Phoenix police sat me down and said my best chance is getting media. And I threw myself into that. I was laid off over COVID like so many people were. And I said, I'm going to try podcasting full time. And then I did. That's when I put ads in my podcast.

1:14:05So you're saying because of COVID-19 you became. And then I began telling other people's stories. And Alyssa's story has changed people's lives, Dad. That's why I continue to do what I'm doing. This is the most meaningful job I've ever been in, aside from working with the kids in foster care. I'm glad, Sarah. I love what I do. I'm very proud of you on that. I am proud of what I do. I'm very proud of you. My new podcast, Nom, about Alyssa, hit number one across the charts with three people on my team. That's beating out people with huge production companies because people want to hear from families in true crime.

1:14:33They wanted to hear your story, Sarah, because you've told them. The podcast isn't about me. It's about an entirely different person not even hosted by me. I am a silent executive producer in the background. My name's not even on it. So my career is not all about Alyssa. Yes, it is. My career is about helping people. That's when you first started because of Alyssa. No. I was doing this for free for almost an entire year. Before Alyssa ran away? No, before I started monetizing the podcast. I monetized it when I was laid off. I thought she worked for Zavala. No. I worked for her. She gave me one check.

1:15:07I worked for her for about two seconds. So why is she suing you, Sarah? Huh? Why is she suing you? That's a whole different matter, Dad. Oh, is it? That's far gone. Oh, okay. No, so what happened was... I thanked her because she was running a podcast and referenced to Alyssa. Yeah, and then what happened was we had a falling out. I will tell you honestly. I thought that she was my best friend. We had a falling out. And then I tweeted and said. Over what? Huh? Over what? Over every. She wanted to move on from Melissa. And that really hurt my feelings. And she said some really bad things. And it was when we went to court, the judge said, this is the most high school thing I've ever seen.

1:15:41And I agree. It was like me and Renee breaking up in court. You know what I mean? It was the stupidest thing. And then I made a tweet that said something like, I'm going to tell the real story of why I started my podcast. First, Detective Somershu forwarded that to her and said, you might want to file something against Sarah. It sounds like she's going to talk negatively about you. Somershu did that to you? Yes, he did. Gee, I thought he was your buddy. No, he is not my buddy. So she filed an injunction against harassment. The police came to my door. They told me I should fight it because I was like, this is crazy.

1:16:14What do I do? I have no idea. And I had only so many days or something to file. And I went to my first lawyer ever. I'd never had a lawyer before. And they said, do you know that the verbiage in this means that you can't talk about your sister's case at all? So I fought it. So that's why we went to court and I won. But that's the whole story behind that. Well, you won the lawsuit that she filed against you. Well, it was like people are real upset online about calling it a lawsuit. So it was an injunction against harassment that I fought. That she had on you. Yeah. Was there ever an injunction put on you and a gag order for you to stop talking about the case?

1:16:49No, I did that. Because I read the filings. I also read your emails back and forth to People magazine. Yeah. And according to what they've had to say, you're the one that said that, that I killed and molested your sister. You said that to those people. I believe that, yes. Well, that's what they said. I don't know. Oh, no, no. In those emails with that guy, I said, hey, you ran this quote on the cover of People magazine. I didn't say that. And that's why we submitted the emails, because he goes, yeah, I know you didn't say that. That's somebody else who writes that. I read that email, too. Yeah.

1:17:19Did you know the sheriff's office took it? One of the officers did the day that it came and hit the stand before all the inmates received it in the mail and walked it around hand to hand and gave it to another inmate to get around the pod. Just get me attacked. Are you aware of that? No, you're not. That's why I got cell along, Sarah, because the sheriff's office was concerned about the People magazine article. Well, I heard a different story if you'd like to hear what I heard. Sure. I'd love to hear rumors. You know, okay. I mean, this is what I got a call from. um you remember shannon lynette's daughter yeah do you remember that she was there when you got booked in she's a detention officer i don't remember her and she was there yeah and she immediately said that's uh i'm like kind of related to this guy i can't be around because she called me to tell me and she said that you were running around telling people that you used to be a detective and so that they had to put you in protective custody no so that's what i heard about you going into protective custody.

1:18:13So Shannon's lying, John's lying, Red's lying, I'm lying, but you aren't. No, sir. I was not under protective situation. I went into protective housing because of COVID-19 as recommended by the lawyers because of my age. So it wasn't because of the People magazine article. So they put me at 35th Avenue and Lord Buckeye Road is where they send people under protective custody. Now, I was not in cell alone until after the People magazine article. I had inmates all the time. So you weren't telling people that you were a detective? The sheriff's office said because it was 50 years ago that I didn't, it was not something that they would want to be concerned about because it was so long ago.

1:18:58But what were you telling people you were a detective? Telling who? I don't know, whatever you were around when you go to jail. I've never been in jail. I don't know. what people would i tell sarah the officers around you the detention officers the officers were aware of all the inmates past history no that's not my question they would approach me at times because that's what shannon told me shannon said that oh that i told them that i had been in law yes i don't remember her being there because i would recognize well she like recused herself she was like she recluse herself but that the point being is that they wanted to know, were you ever in law enforcement?

1:19:35They asked that question to everybody that comes in because they separate them. Then again, they told me, well, we looked at your situation, but it was 50 years ago. So there's nobody in here that you would have actually arrested. Okay. That's what their reason was. That's my confusion. Okay. Did you get that straight? I mean, no, because according to you, everybody else is lying and not you. It doesn't matter who it is. Me, Shannon, John, people who were around for a little bit, people who are there the whole time. Everybody else is lying but you. Sarah, what do you come up with that? I'm talking about a broad harassment threat.

1:20:12Listen to what you're saying. Okay, if you feel harassed, I can stop. I don't want to harass you. Sarah, you're already with the expression on your face. Okay, then we should probably stop if you feel harassed. Because that is not my intention. I do not mean to harass you. What is your intention, Sarah? Why are you attacking me instead of just asking your questions. I'm done with my questions. Now we're having a conversation. But if you feel attacked and harassed, I don't want to continue this conversation. So you're done with all your questions that you have? Yeah. I mean, I have different categories if you brought different stuff up, but I don't think it's worth bringing up.

1:20:45Okay. When did you start actually working with the City of Phoenix Police Department, Sarah? I've told you 5 ,000 times in the court that I never worked with the City of Phoenix Police Department. 5 ,000 times? Yeah, I've had that many conversations, sir you're a little over exaggerating yes i am over exaggerating dad okay i never worked with phoenix police did you or did you not give anderson permission to search the house without talking to me about it to search our house i said that they could come in and talk to us that's not what he said i don't i don't recall from back then so why did they show up that day sir was it by my invitation or yours i was the family contact we've gone over the story but i'm happy to do it again.

1:21:24I was the family contact for police. They said, we'd like to look at Alyssa's things. I said, great. We have sheds full of Alyssa's things because I told my dad to keep everything. We had trips. So I said, sheds, sheds. And no, we only had two boxes of Alyssa's things when they came and I was devastated, devastated because I didn't know where anything went. I think you did. So yes. Did I invite the police into our home as the family? Absolutely. Okay, Dad, why would I not invite the police into our home? What are you talking about now? You're one of those kind of people if a cop asks you to search this house, you're going to relinquish your Fourth Amendment and let them?

1:22:00If that means, if I was a parent accused of hurting my child, my child was missing, I would say, come do whatever you need to do so you can get past me and go find whatever happened to them. You're probably one of the contributing factors why our Constitution is being deteriorated every day. You cannot let any police officer just because he thinks he wants to search a house. Anderson was explaining to it. You were standing there, sir, when I told him, why would you want to search this house? Alyssa never lived here. Would you like to have a moment of silence for the Constitution? Now you're mocking somebody, and I believe in it very dearly.

1:22:32Yeah, because you were attacking me, again, the same way that you attacked me in court, that not a single motion in those first few years was even about Alyssa. It was all about me. You couldn't make it stick that I was working with police. Then you went on to say I worked with the state. Then you said I went to work with Thomas Heimer. You tried to get anything to attack me. And you did that just to hurt me. And I know that. I never once did that to you. Everything I say is the truth. I didn't even know, Sarah, that you were even in a conversation with Time of Hunger. Interesting, because you said everything my team is doing is because I told them to do it.

1:23:05You said I am telling them what to do. That's what you told me yesterday. I'm telling what? You're turning things really going off. Hey, Mark, calm down, Sarah. Please, calm down. I mean, you're really losing it. I'll calm down when you tell the truth. What truth are you looking for, Sarah? Remember me asking you overall, what are you looking for, Sarah, other than ratings? Okay, so my last question is... Was I ugly after dark? Yes, I was. And because of my age, I continue to be that way. Will I get that confession on your deathbed?

1:23:41Bad phrasing, Sarah. It meant the story that you have heard is never going to change, even when I'm dying, Sarah, because I did not molest and I did not kill your daughter, your sister. Okay. So is that offer to confess if you get lethal injection within 10 days still on the table? You took it out of context, Sarah, and you played it to the hilt to a point it became some kind of an evidentiary thing. Because of what I was warned by all of the family, don't talk to Sarah. But I chose to talk to you because I really wanted to see if my daughter had that much hatred towards me. You. I feel nothing for you.

1:24:15I will leave this conversation. I will finish my projects about Alyssa. Are you going to keep your word and give me the video? I will never think of you again. My children will not know who you are. I will not speak your name. Oh, now for the audience. Are you going to give me the recordings you said you were or you're not? I wish you the best. You're a liar, Sarah. Why are you doing this, Sarah? To make money off of your dead sister? If you'd like to speak to the producers, you can. I wish you the best.

1:24:48No drum roll, guys? Three hours of stuff for me to tell my story. All right. As long as we're on the air, folks, can we continue with this? You guys paid to shut this thing down. The Phineas PD fabricated this. All of it. You understand? The judge saw it. That's why he acquitted it. Do you understand that? You guys, I was just manipulating. I don't appreciate that. But Sue, what for, guys? Who actually paid you guys to do this? Sarah? No. No, you were, Sarah did not ask us to do this. You're doing this independently? We're doing it for a documentary. Okay, do you have any questions that you'd like to ask me?

1:25:31Yeah. We'll ask you some questions, but I don't want to be videotaped by asking questions. You don't want? I don't want to be videotaped while I ask you questions. Why? Huh? Because I don't want to be on YouTube. Okay. You're not the kind of person that's the... So, I'll ask you questions. Yeah. You want to start? You want me to start? No. Yeah, because you're going to have to. Yeah. I didn't think I wanted to be talking about it. I am so disappointed. Sarah lied to me again. You know, it doesn't really matter at this stage.

1:25:58Sarah suffered so much from abandonment. I mean, my own daughter telling people that I killed her mother. to eliminate crimes.

1:26:09All right. Am I still going to get a copy of the DVD? You're not going to lie about that either? No, no. Okay, good. We can't until the film's done. It's embarrassing to have a family dispute on TV, but again, that's... I was hoping it would help Sarah, but Sarah's going to... She's killing herself. She's so heavy.

1:26:37So, I'm going to ask you a couple questions.

1:27:04Thank you.