Susan Lund

27:15But when they uploaded to GEDmatch Pro, Sue's sample, and she had a really high relationship match, comparatively speaking, this would be like a first cousin once removed. And if you've ever looked at your samples for your listeners out there. This was like 432 centimorgans. What a genetic genealogist is hoping to see is something like around 100. They're like, okay, boy, we can solve this with 100, as long as there's no heavy endogamy, which means lots of crossing family lines with the same names. So they knew they were going to be able to solve it. And that's kind of how it works, like slow, slow, slow, quick, but normally quick is like weeks or days.

28:02Did I think it was going to take under eight hours? Um, I did not. Um, so that was a shock. Maybe I shouldn't have been shocked. Um, they're incredibly talented. Um, but it was a shock, you know, I mean, I literally felt like a flash. I don't want to quite give this away. It felt like a flash, but I was staring at a photo in a very short period of time of a face and I had a name. And then someone who I had been thinking of as Ina Jane Doe for two years suddenly was Susan Menard Lund, you know? Yeah, the whiplash of it all. And again, not to give it away, but you went to sleep and woke up and she was identified, which I'm sure was just insane for you.

28:52In addition to talking about the parts of the case that made me cry, I want to talk about the part that frustrated me. So Susan is identified and you find out that the police closed her case like very soon after she went missing and they said that she was actually found. How does this even happen? And how do you think that impacted the case and trying to identify her? This is the part that I think was the saddest and the most frustrating for her family. And I'm sure we'll be talking about her family in a little bit because I've spent a lot of time with them. But it was frustrating on my part as a researcher because I felt pretty sure that if her case hadn't been closed, I would have identified her before we had to do testing because I spent hundreds of hours in archives, on NamUs, on every possible database.

29:45And I feel like I could have narrowed it down based on a couple of key characteristics. But here's the thing. She wasn't in any database because her case had been, in my opinion, improperly closed. So although Ina Jane Doe was found in Illinois, Susan Menard-Lunn went missing in Tennessee. And without getting into the details of her case too much, someone claimed to be her and alerted authorities that they were living in Alabama. And authorities, through what I think is fair to say, and these are authorities in Tennessee, not the authorities in Illinois who currently have her case. They have her case open.

30:25It is active. Let me be clear there. But the authorities in Tennessee closed her case based on this person's word. And what I do know from Sue's sisters, her parents have unfortunately passed away. And they passed away before they got this news of what happened to her. They went down to Alabama and either spoke to this person on the phone or saw her in person. Sue's sisters just aren't sure. But they told the authorities from Tennessee and Alabama that this was not Sue, but the case was closed despite their protests. And it was just assumed that this person in Alabama who claimed to be Sue was Sue.

31:06We don't know why this person claimed to be Sue. And I don't like to speculate on things. I have kind of a big issue with speculation because it can just lead you in the wrong direction. But what we do know are the effects of that, which is her case was closed, which meant that her family could not open another case. And because her family could not open another case, their hands were effectively tied for the next 30 years. They could look for her all they wanted, but they could only look in informal ways. So they spent the next 30 years checking missing persons reports, checking unidentified persons reports.

31:44When the internet developed, they were checking unidentified persons sketches. When we finally identified her, we found posts that her family had made as recently as a week or two before her identification, trading pictures of unidentified does still looking for her. So, I mean, that's incredibly frustrating that a family had to wait that long when if her case had been open, I think that she could have been matched, if not by us, even earlier. Well, and of course, you know, that's something I will always connect with is that family member element. And I do want to talk about it, you know, because again, another piece that made me cry was the fact that her kids thought that she just left her left them.

32:32And it's just it's heart wrenching to think that those kids grew up thinking that there was a possibility that their mom willingly left them. And again, this isn't a question, but I want you to realize how amazing you are that you helped give them those answers. I mean, that and I can't speak for them and every journey is different. But to know that your mom didn't willingly leave you, again, made me cry. And you did that. You did that. Well, I was one of the people. I don't want to, one of a team of people that helped with that. But it's talking a lot with Sue's daughter, Crystal, who is her main advocate in her case.

33:17She just the pain, the pain of that is something that I think that most people haven't thought about. And, you know, like, why would we? Right. But to not only not have answers as to what happened to your loved one, but to think that your loved one also left you of their own free will, just the double pain of that is something that I know family members who've been through situations like you have and Crystal have can imagine. But I don't think a lot of us can because we're lucky. And to get that double answer of no, your mom didn't leave you, something bad happened to her is a complex situation that I can't imagine having to process.

34:07So her family is still, you know, processing that. But I know at least for her daughter, Crystal, she's told me you know what I'm free to share with people that for her it has been something that does feel really healing because it lines up with the mother that she remembers from her childhood who was really kind and loved her very much and took time out of her day to teach her things sing her songs they both really loved animals so you know would take her to see animals all around the neighborhood and, you know, would take time out to take them on little walks. And, you know, they take, she'd take them to Dairy Queen every day.

34:46So they had something to do, even when they were bored in the summer before they got a car, they moved to Tennessee. So for her, the pieces of her childhood that felt disparate, you know, the story that maybe your mom had run away and left you, suddenly everything clicked back into place in a way that felt unified. So I know for her, that part felt really good. Of course. And yeah, another part in the book that made me cry was when you talked about how she would sing her kids, You Are My Sunshine. And I was like, I lost it so many different parts of this book. Um, but I can only imagine what it was like for you to spend so much time with this woman, you know, that you, you got to know through your research and then finally speaking to her family.

35:31What was that like for you after all this time to, to meet her children?

35:39So, you know, this, um, just from us being friends, like, you know, we work a lot with families, um, but it's always on the other side of things, right? It's always families who are looking for answers. And very rarely on the fall line have the families that we've worked with gotten answers. There's been a few. But I have never met a family for the first time when they are receiving an answer. And when I'm part of the process that got them that answer. So that's a unique experience. To meet her family, like the word honor is not quite the right word. I felt grateful to meet them. I felt a responsibility to provide as much information as I could.

36:37I felt so much empathy for them. um you know i just felt i don't you know it was extremely i'm getting emotional now it was it was an extremely emotional experience because the day that i first met them was the day before the press conference um to announce the solve in sue's case so we were all staying at the same hotel and we just went out to dinner um and i went out to dinner with um sue's sisters first. Her daughter was, she's living in a different country. So we just, you know, talk on the phone or FaceTime, but we just went out to dinner. And the thing I remember the most is that they brought pictures that I hadn't seen before, you know, cause there was only a few pictures that had run in the newspaper.

37:25And I had found Sue's high school yearbooks. The little tiny local library had scanned them. But the thing that really struck me was their family childhood home hadn't flooded and there had been a fire, but they were able to save the pictures of her. And so they brought those like all the way from Indiana to Illinois and they brought them to dinner. Um, and we went through them and it was, I don't know, I didn't take notes. Um, I didn't do anything for the book at that meeting. You know, we just ate together. Um, but just going through those pictures was one of the more emotionally complex and difficult experiences of my life.

38:07And I just felt that there's not, I don't know if you can tell, but like, there's not really a good word to describe it. The closest word was grateful to be there with them and grateful to have the chance to do this kind of work that could benefit someone in some way, I guess. No, that makes total sense to me. I always, like, I believe it or not, I think a lot of people expect me to know what to say in, you know, emotional situations like that when it involves loss or true crime. And my answer is there's no words, right? There are no words sometimes to describe these situations. It's just unbelievable and amazing what you did for this family.

38:52And I know it was a group effort, but I am speaking to you. So, you know, your piece in all of this was amazing and you changed that family forever. I mean, there's no denying that. And as a side note, I'm not surprised that they saved the pictures. I will say that my emergency plan, if something happens to my home, involves grabbing every picture of Alyssa, my sister, that I have left. So I totally get that and empathize with that so much. And I'm so glad that they still have those photos. It means everything, especially, you know, memories fade and to have those things is just so important. This episode is brought to you by eBay.

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40:02meet the computer you can talk to with copilot on windows working creating and collaborating is as easy as talking. Got writer's block? Share your screen with Copilot Vision to help spark inspiration and use Copilot Voice to have a conversation and brainstorm ideas. Or maybe you need some tech help. With Copilot Vision, Copilot sees what you see. Let Copilot talk you through step-by-step guidance so you can master new apps, games, and skills faster. Try now at windows.com slash copilot. Now that we know who Susan is, I want to talk about, I guess I'm repeating myself a little bit, who she was as a person.

40:40What did you learn about her? I would love to kind of dive into that and her personality because, you know, she's so much more, obviously, you know, than just a Jane Doe and so much more than just a victim of a crime. What did you find out about who she was as a person? Yeah, and I'll let people read the book to find out how much this differs from what was assumed based in the 90s, because there are a lot of differences. I want to concentrate on Sue. Sue was only 25 years old when she died. She was the mother of three children. She was from Indiana. She'd married her high school sweetheart. He was in the army.

41:21And he had been stationed in Germany for quite a bit. So she was living with her sister Pam for quite a while there. And when he came back from Germany, the whole family moved to Tennessee and they were living like right on the border between Tennessee and Kentucky because he was stationed at Fort Campbell. And they had just moved into housing that was off base. And because they were so new there, like they didn't have anything set up yet. So, you know, they didn't have a car, they didn't have a phone yet. So like they were really just like in transition at that point. She was feeling like, of course, stressed about that.

41:57But she was also in this like kind of sweet honeymoon period with her kids because she had been working like crazy. She and Pam were trading off child care duties. So this was the first time that she'd been at home with all three of her kids. And she said that like watching them develop day by day was kind of a gift. This was something that Pam remembered, like getting to watch the kids just like learn to do something new because she and Pam had been switching off shifts. She just didn't really get to see that quite as much, like hour by hour. So she was really loving that. She had been kind of quiet in high school, but had her group of friends.

42:37She was kind of a tomboy. She had played softball for quite some time. She actually met her husband at a video arcade. I think she was playing pinball. So that was kind of her thing. And she really was hoping one day to become a veterinarian or maybe a vet's assistant because her big passion in life was animals, like some of Crystal, her daughters, and Crystal's her middle child. So she was four when Sue disappeared. Some of Crystal's biggest memories are things like Sue crawling underneath a porch that Crystal was definitely sure was full of snakes to rescue a kitten that was like all the way in the back and pull it out.

43:19That was the kind of thing she would do. She would walk up to a fence where like the meanest dog was chained up and get the dog to like lay down and let her pet it. She would approach any animal, try and take care of it, take it home, nurse it back to health. You know, that was her big thing was a huge love of animals. They were on vacation. Her whole family would go to the beach. She would stay and take care of the farm animals. Like that was her thing. And it was something that Crystal has thought about a lot as she's gotten older because she's found herself suddenly like, you know, as you do, I think if you're an empathetic person, like doing animal rescue, all my friends who are like that, do that.

43:56Um, I was talking to Crystal, um, yesterday and she suddenly has a, like a dog and seven puppies at her house that she's taking care of, you know? So very much like her mom. Um, So that's the kind of woman she was. She was just a huge animal lover. She was a young mother. And I think she was really looking forward to getting settled in Tennessee. She'd only been there for a little while so that when her kids all got to school age, she could maybe look at getting a job at a veterinarian's office and learn more about that profession. Now I'm getting emotional. It's just, I mean, it's so amazing to have more context.

44:34And, you know, of course, not to make it about me, but I think about, you know, my sister sitting there as a doe and no one knowing, you know, how amazing she was. And so before I completely cry, I just, again, want to say that it's absolutely amazing what you were a part of and the answers you were able to provide and really, you know, giving more context about who she was as a person and not just a doe. I think it's absolutely amazing. And I can't speak for all families, but I appreciate the work you do so much. And you're just incredibly fantastic. And I'm sure that makes you incredibly uncomfortable.

45:12So we can dive right into where is the case today? Of course, Susan has been identified, but there's a whole other piece out there. There's a killer out there possibly still on the loose. So where does her case stand today? Yeah, I mean, Susan is a homicide victim. There are a killer or killers responsible for her murder. So the way that we approach this is that Dr. Amy Michael, the forensic anthropologist and I who work together on these cases, have teamed up to offer a$10 ,000 reward in her case. And this reward does not expire. So I want to make sure that's clear, like that reward is there forever.

45:56So we were lucky enough to go to a nonprofit that you and I are both very familiar with. Let's not act like we're not, because I work with them all the time, which is Season of Justice. And Season of Justice is a nonprofit that I've been working with for about a year who has been able to provide family grants to now five families who've been on my show, The Fall Line. And we raise money for them all the time because I think that these family grants are so important. Billboards, you know, we've had, you know, radio ads. There have been bus signs. I know that Montana at the Blackfeet Reservation, they decided that T-shirts and big signs that could be reused at marches and put up on size of buildings were the best way to go.

46:47So it's a really, you know, what fits the family best kind of campaign, not one size fits all. So Crystal actually applied for and was granted a family grant for her mother. And after some discussion, we decided with Crystal and Season of Justice that the best way to handle this was rather than putting up any billboards in the Illinois area, what we really wanted to target was Clarksville, Tennessee, where Sue disappeared. So for October, because we thought that might be the best time, that's when her case is going to get attention. That's when my book comes out. That's when interviews are going to run.

47:28That's when press is going to happen. We are going to plaster that place with billboards. So there's going to be billboards up saying, you know, where she was last seen, on what day, with her photo, announcing the reward. And there's going to be a tip line up. That tip line is going to go to Illinois because Illinois has her case. So that's going to be the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office. They had Sue's unidentified persons case. They are now actively pursuing her homicide case. So they're the ones who need the tips. And so that's where we're at right now. We're just trying to attract as much attention as possible.

48:05I'm actually going to make a flyer that can be shared on social media as well with the same information. And I'm going to make that available not only on my website. I like to make things as a PDF that can be downloaded easily, but also on the podcast social media, also on my personal social media so that people can share it easily as well, just to get that circulating. Because like I said, it does not expire. So as far as we can get it across Tennessee, Kentucky, all of that region would be, I think, really important at this time. Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today.

48:46Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS. Disney Plus wants to know, are you ready? Yeah! For Marvel Studios, Thunderbolts The New Avengers, now streaming on Disney+. Let's do this. One of the best Marvel movies of all time is now streaming on Disney+. Hey, you weren't listening to me.

49:24I said, Thunderbolts The New Avengers is now streaming on Disney+. Meet The New Avengers. That's cool, man. Marvel Studios, Thunderbolts The New Avengers, rated PG-13. Now streaming on, you guessed it, Disney+. Of course, Voices for Justice is all about how we can help. So what is our call to action, Laura? How can we help Susan's case? I think the biggest thing is going to be making not only Tennessee, but the region aware of her case. When she was identified, there was some limited local coverage of her. But I think we really need to get in contact with the people who lived in the area at the time.

50:06The problem is, of course, that people move. It was 1993. People don't usually move that far, though. So I think if we really can share not only her flyer, but try to get in touch with local media, when those billboards go up, asking them to cover this case, because a billboard is a newsworthy story. I have learned that. I am often able to get local media to cover a billboard when it goes up, right? It's an easy story. So when those billboards go up, asking local media if you live in the area to cover the case. If you happen to live in the Clarksville, Tennessee area, take a picture. Share it on social media.

50:41Sharing the PDFs of the flyers that I'm going to put up as well, and I'll have those ready for Sarah. Just getting it out there, spreading the word. If you have a TikTok account, please feel free to make a TikTok. Sharing the flyer as well. All of that would be super helpful. I just think we want to make her case more well-known than it is now. She's been Ina Jane Doe. Let's make her Susan Menard Lund. I love that. So if you guys are listening, please share. I know that we talk about this every single week, but the power of a single share is so, so intense. I mean, you guys really don't know how far it can go.

51:19Maybe you do. I mean, look at my sister's case. Yeah, I mean, they probably do. Maybe your audience does. My audience probably does. And I know that I might say this all the time and maybe it feels a little played out, but Alyssa's case started with a single share. I started with zero followers, you know what I mean? So those shares are so important and so powerful. So please, if you listen to this entire interview, this entire episode, just take a moment to share. It would mean the world to me, to Laura, and I'm sure to Susan's family. And Laura, I know that you're not done with this case. You know what I mean?

51:54I know that these cases live with you forever. But I do want to ask you, what's next? What are you working on next? What can we look forward to? What's coming up? So Amy and I are currently working on cases where DNA is not possible. That's something that we're working on right now. The cases where perhaps remains have been damaged to the point where DNA is not possible. I'm personally working on some cases where the remains of the person are no longer available, and I'm going to need to try and identify them in other ways. And these are difficult cases, but that's why I want to work on them. Because if there's a chance to try and identify someone, I want to do that.

52:39So that's a big project that we're working on both together and separately with several law enforcement agencies ranging from the Southeast to the Northeast. I'm working on a fiction project as well because I like to stay busy. Of course, the fall line has several seasons coming up. In November, we're working with Metro Nashville PD on 22 unidentified persons cases, doe cases. It is a big project, but we covered several doe cases for them in the past. There's going to be a solve I can announce soon in one of those cases. And when they asked if we wanted to cover them, those 22 cases, you can imagine what I said, which was yes.

53:23So we have that coming up on the fall line. And this is just, I mean, Sarah, you know me, unidentified persons cases are my passion area. And every case is important. But unidentified persons cases get the least coverage because the narrative story points that would help people tell a story about someone have been forcibly removed or removed by the environment or by elements or by time. And so I feel like trying to get those back into place is doing a service on one hand to try and identify someone, but it's also giving people a way to connect and care. And like you say, all it takes is one share.

54:16So if I can get someone, just one person, to share a story about an unidentified person, that share might be the share that helps to identify someone and reconnect them to their family and reconnect them to their name. So that's what I care about. And that's what I want to spend my life doing, you know? Absolutely. I mean, it's incredibly important work. And again, I can't thank you enough for doing it. Again, I can't speak for all families, but for someone who, you know, I have a doe out there, my sister, and I can't thank you enough. But before we go, where can people find you? Where can they find your podcast?

54:56And where can they find your book, Lay Them to Rest? Okay. So you can find me. I made a public Instagram, which is lay them to rest because I am secretive and hide my family. Otherwise, I don't believe. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you know, I am. Sarah knows I love talking about myself. So and then you can find Fall Line podcast on Instagram. I think it's Fall Line podcast. podcast. We're on TikTok where I am slowly being educated by Sarah on how to tick and talk. And OST is on there too. And so am I under Laura Norton. It's a painful experience, but if you visit me there, be kind. I'm old. Laura's becoming a TikTok sensation.

55:42We're going to get her to go viral. Everyone go follow her right now on TikTok. Make her incredibly uncomfortable and make her the next TikTok star. You can watch the videos where my dog is moving the camera and I'm confused about how to turn off music on filters and stuff. It's a grandma moment, but it's cute, I hope. And OST, One Strange Things on Instagram, things like that. I occasionally get on Facebook to post a link or Twitter to post a link, but I find it, you know, uncomfortable. and as for my book, it's available for pre-order everywhere. If you order before October 17th, so by the 16th, there are some pre-order bonuses available, but really, I mean, you can buy it anywhere.

56:25You can buy a book. And, you know, if you're a teacher, it's a good book for academia. It's also a good, just read, I think, if you're interested in forensic science, true crime, um and you know that's about it i think that's all my stuff sarah right wait wait wait i have pre-ordered this book and i did not get a bonus what is this bonus you're talking about that i am apparently not clued in on laura well so you know that's this is the complexity of life you have to scroll down to the bottom of the hashtag page um and enter your receipt and then you can get there's various bonuses listed there's a podcast episode um because i really wanted to write more about the Dardeen family's case, which I wasn't able to fit into the book because I'm really concerned about it.

57:12The Dardeen family, their case kind of stalled out after Tommy Lenzels confessed to their case, but then he retracted his confession. So it just didn't get investigated any further. So I did a bonus episode on their case. That is a bonus for buying the book early. And then if you do two, if you buy two for some reason, the kind of person that buys two books, there's a Zoom hangout that I'm doing with Josh Hallmark. And we're going to talk about how we use databases like NamUs to work on our unidentified persons cases that we work on. All right. I'm going to buy a second book and I'm going to crash your Zoom.

57:55I mean, I would have invited you anyway. And by crash, I mean, sit there respectfully and quietly. Do not crash or zoom. But you guys go buy her book, pre-order the book, get the bonuses. Again, it is Lay Them to Rest. It's out October 17th, this year, 2023. And if you buy it before, you can get all those amazing bonuses. All the links will be in the episode description, but pre-ordered everywhere. Or if you're listening after October 17th, buy it now. Laura, I just want to thank you again. Thank you for the work that you do. thank you for coming on the show and talking about your book. Thank you so much.

58:31Thank you for having me.

58:35Thank you for listening. If you have any information about Susan Lund, please call the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office tip line at 618-242-TIPS. As always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.

58:55Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice media original. If you love what we do here, please take a moment to rate and review the show in your podcast player. It helps us and helps more people find these cases in need of justice.

59:25Thank you.

59:58Welcome to the secret after show. The air is not on because the weather has finally broken Arizona and I'm so excited about it. That being said, I might actually be moving back into the closet, you guys. I'm trying to just make this audio the best it can be and I'm going to experiment moving back into the closet, especially now that it is not 8 ,000 degrees outside. So I'll let you know which episode actually gets recorded in there, and you guys can tell me if it's better or not. Every time I feel like you guys tell me that it sounds exactly the same, but I will do anything to make this audio quality as high as possible to attract as many people as possible to listen to these cases.

1:00:40That being said, let's talk about Susan Lund. Now, of course, I want to give a huge thank you again to my friend, Laura Norton, friend of the show, friend of the true crime community, Miss Laura Norton. Of course, again, I want to tell you, go check out her book, Lay Them to Rest. It really is fantastic. If you like true crime, if you like to know how these things happen behind the scenes before you get to that big press conference moment, check out her book. It really does explain everything, and I will tell you I learned a thing or two. It's absolutely fantastic. I'm not just saying that because she's my friend.

1:01:15I promise you, it is a book you will love. And of course, more importantly, you know, this is still an unsolved case, and I really hope that that book draws more attention to Susan, because yes, she was identified, and that is a huge win in this case, and of course, from what I understand, brought her family a lot of answers, but not all the answers they could have in this case. So please, please share. Now I do have a new reading and watching for you. It's just watching, okay? I can't tell you, I feel like I'm never going to be able to tell you about all the books because I usually read a lot of them for cases or sometimes they're not true crime related.

1:01:55So if you want to hear what I'm reading that's not true crime related, let me know. I do try to keep it very true crime in this after show. But if for some reason you would like to know what I'm reading just for fun, you let me know. I did watch something that is true crime. I mean, it is true crime. It's not your typical true crime. It's not typically what I report on. But for those of you who don't know, I was obsessed with an E show, you know, like E exclamation mark, the TV channel. I feel so dated saying this. I haven't had cable in a long time. But did anybody else used to watch Pretty Wild on there?

1:02:30I swear it was only on for like one season because if you guys don't know it features Alexis Nyers from The Bling Ring and I think it was during the filming of the pilot that the FBI like knocked on her door and they're like open up we know that you you know stole from all these celebrities or whatever I mean they definitely didn't say that but you guys know what I mean so I watched The Bling Ring documentary by Aaron Lee car on HBO. It is called The Ringleader, The Case of the Bling Ring. And what it does is feature never before. Okay, so let me back up. What it does is it talks about this woman, Rachel.

1:03:09Well, I mean, they were teenagers at the time. But basically, she, this woman, Rachel, was named as the ringleader of the bling ring. I guess let me back up even further. If you don't know what the bling ring is like first, where have you been? This has been something that's been on my mind for like a decade. It's basically these, I can't say that they were all privileged, but you know, these kids in like Calabasas and these very affluent neighborhoods around California who got together and began robbing celebrities. They robbed Paris Hilton a bunch of times. They robbed Lindsay Lohan, Orlando Bloom, Audrina Patridge from the Hills.

1:03:49They robbed all sorts of people. And I guess it's like my version of, I know it's horrible and let's just be real, like robbing somebody really does destroy their peace of mind. You know, I believe it was Lindsay Lohan that said that she never felt safe at home again. And so there are very serious elements to this, and I'm not trying to downplay that, but it was like my version of reality TV. I don't do The Bachelor or like Love Island or whatever. I did bling rings. So I've been following this case for a very long time. And the ringleader or the person that everyone said was the ringleader finally speaks out in this documentary.

1:04:27And it was really well done. And more importantly, I just love Erin Lee Carr, to be totally honest with you. And you probably know who she is, even if you don't think you know who she is. So she actually produced Britney versus Spears, I Love You Now Die, Mommy Dead and Dearest. She's produced a ton of true crime documentaries, and this is another one. So that is what I'm watching. And if anybody is interested in The Bling Ring, I definitely recommend it. It was just like kind of a continuation to this story and really getting Rachel's side of things, which has never ever been told before. So if you enjoyed, for lack of a better word, consuming this story, I definitely recommend watching this.

1:05:12Again, this is The Ringleader, The Case of the Bling Ring, and you can find it on HBO. This is not sponsored. I was not paid to say this. It's just genuinely what I was watching that was true crime applicable. Other than that, let's move right into our segment of hope, which actually does correlate with the entertainment industry as well. And you guys probably know, if you follow the podcast on Instagram, I did post about this. I am talking about there finally being an arrest in the murder of Tupac. So I am reading directly from APNews.com. The title says, Last living suspect in 1996 drive-by shooting of Tupac Shakur indicted in Las Vegas on murder charge.

1:05:57And this was from September 29th, 2023. So again, just a few days ago, like we always try to do here. And it was a crazy week for true crime. There were so many stories that I could have used for this segment of Hope, but I do try to just focus on one, so let's keep talking about Tupac. The article reads, Dwayne Davis has long been known to investigators as one of four suspects identified early in the investigation. He isn't the accused gunman, but was described as the group's ringleader by authorities Friday at a news conference and in court. In Nevada, you can be charged with a crime, including murder, if you help someone commit the crime.

1:06:35Dwayne Davis was the shot caller for this group of individuals that committed this crime, said Las Vegas Police Homicide Lieutenant Jason Johansson, and he orchestrated the plan that was carried out. Davis himself has admitted in interviews, and in his 2019 tell-all memoir Compton Street Legend, that he provided the gun used in the drive-by shooting. Davis, now 60, was arrested early Friday while on a walk near his home on the outskirts of Las Vegas. Yeah, so it looks like the grand jury also voted to add a sentencing enhancement to the murder charge for gang activity that could add up to 20 years.

1:07:13So again, this makes our segment of hope because it really has been so long. I mean, honestly, it's weird, but one of my most vivid memories with Alyssa, and it's not Tupac, don't fight me, but was when we found out Biggie Smalls died. I remember exactly where we were, and I remember both of us crying. And, you know, this has been something that's been on my mind for a really long time, you know, both of their murders, honestly. So I'm just really glad that there seems to be some type of resolution. I love that all these older cases are getting solved, people are getting charges. It just, after fighting for so long and hearing and seeing so many comments about Alyssa's case that, you know, would say horrible things like it's been so long, nothing's going to happen.

1:08:01It's really cool to see so many cases getting some movement after so many years. So that is our segment of hope. of course. I send all the love to Tupac's family and everyone, I mean all his loved ones. I think he touched so many lives and just seeing this is really cool and hopefully there's some type of resolution. But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.