Susan Poupart

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1:58discretion is advised. My name is Sarah Turney and this is Voices for Justice.

2:08Today, I'm discussing the case of Susan Poupart. This case has defied resolution for nearly 35 years. It's also cast this profound, enduring shadow over a family and entire community in northern Wisconsin. In the early morning hours of May 20th, 1990, 29-year-old mother of two, Susan Poupart, went to a party, was last seen getting into a car with some men, and was never seen alive again. This is the case of Susan Poupart.

2:47It's May 19, 1990, on the Lac-Dou-Flambeau Reservation in northern Wisconsin, and 29-year-old Susan Poupart, or Susie as most knew her, is getting ready to go to a party. But her grandmother has a bad feeling about it. The feeling is so strong that she begs her to not go out that night. This is something that, according to Susie's sister, ate away at their grandmother until she passed away many years later. This concern, this desire to protect her is understandable because Susie had a rough few years up to this point. According to reporting by PBS Wisconsin, by this time Susie had her own home on the reservation where she lived with her two children, Alex who was three and Jared who was nine.

3:34She worked as a server at a local casino, but she had more creative aspirations. Susie was a budding artist and sculptor. A few years prior, she was studying at the Institute of American Indian Arts in Santa Fe, New Mexico. But when she became pregnant with Alex, she moved with Alex's father to New Hampshire, where he was from. According to Jared, his family was less than welcoming to Susie due to their prejudice against O.G. boy women. And pretty quickly, it got even worse when this boyfriend became violent. So Susie left. She took her two kids and went back to where she grew up on the Lac-Dou-Flambeau reservation to be with her family.

4:15One woman cited in that same PBS Wisconsin article, who didn't wish to be named, says Susie also helped other women escape abusive relationships. She said, quote, Susie was a good friend who always helped me, especially when I was trying to exit a violent relationship. Like me, she had bad luck with men, but she sure loved her kids. End quote. That's one thing that seems clear about Susie. She was extremely devoted to her children. She wanted a better life for them and for herself, which also meant going out and having a bit of fun sometimes, especially because she had such a great support system to lean on when she needed to blow off a little steam, like on the night of the party.

5:00Susie arranges for her kids to stay with her sister Dawn overnight while she goes out. Now, this party has been described as being an after-bar house party. Basically, according to an interview Alex gave to Dateline and several statements from investigators, this was a party held for Susie's friend's brother who was leaving to serve in the military. So kind of this last hurrah goodbye party. According to that same reporting, the party was on the reservation, and only about a mile south of Susie's house on Little Pines Road. This is important to keep in mind as I tell you about her case. Now, the timeline of when Susie arrived at the party is unclear, but we know that it ended pretty late.

5:44Susie was seen leaving between 4 and 4.30 a.m. on now May 20, 1990, and she was not alone. It was believed that she was last seen getting into a Buick with two men in their early 20s, Robert Elm and Joseph Cobb. Alex Poupart believes her mother knew these men. She told Dateline that that's just how it was. Quote, a reservation is a small town. Everybody knows everybody. End quote. It's unfortunately unclear exactly what happened next, but witnesses state that everyone was intoxicated. And here's where things get scary. There are conflicting statements about whether Susie got into the car willingly or if she was forced into the car.

6:33Newswatch 12 reports that one man told police two men forced Susie into the car. But Local 7 News WSAW-TV reports that Joe Fath, then a detective sergeant with the Vilass County Sheriff's Office, said outright that there were no reports that she was forced into the vehicle. So, like I always say, take that for what you will But wherever they went, it didn't appear to be Susie's home on Little Pines Road While these men did tell other people at the party that it was their intended destination The car was seen turning in the opposite direction Essentially, Susie's home was about a mile north But they took her south instead This is the last confirmed sighting of Susie

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8:35After Suzy Poupart fails to return home from a house party on May 20th, 1990, her family is understandably concerned. But her sister Dawn waits a few days to report her missing. Susie going out and staying out overnight wasn't completely unheard of, but not checking in on her kids was. That's when Dawn knew that something was seriously wrong and reported Susie missing. Now at this time, Lac du Flambeau didn't have a tribal police department like we've encountered in other cases. So this report was made to the Vilas County Sheriff's Office, who took the lead on her case and all other cases on the reservation.

9:15Outside of a few years living in New Mexico and New Hampshire, Susie was a lifelong resident and member of the Lac-Dou-Flambeau Band of Lake Superior Chippewa. This is a federally recognized tribe that has inhabited this area since 1745. According to their official website, ldfdtribe.com, the name Lac du Flambeau was given to them by the French and was inspired by their practice of harvesting fish in the nighttime by torchlight. The reservation spans just under 90 ,000 acres, and as of the year 2020, its population was estimated to be about 3 ,500 people, making it a relatively smaller reservation compared to much of the others in the U.S.

9:59Like Alex said, it's basically a small town where everyone knows everyone. Now, Vilas County did quickly launch an investigation into Susie's disappearance, and they dispatched patrol deputies and members of the local fire department to search for her. Members of the community, of course, also participated in local foot searches, but Susie wasn't anywhere to be found. At first, they thought that because the party was so close to Susie's house, she may have wandered through the woods separating the two properties and got lost or got hurt somehow. So the sheriff's office brought in specially trained canines from Minnesota to help track her scent, but they also couldn't find anything related to Susie.

10:41While they were physically searching for Susie, investigators were also working on interviewing people who were at the party that night. The exact number is unfortunately unknown, but witnesses quickly point to the two men she was last seen with. Again, that's Robert Elm and Joseph Cobb. According to reporting by Dateline, Cobb and Elm told investigators that they were in the car with Susie that night and planned on taking her home. But they say that after Susie got into the car, they all got into an argument and they ended up dropping her off at the old Lock-Doo Flambeau Elementary School. This is about half a mile south of the party, so the complete opposite direction of Susie's home, which would correlate with witness statements about seeing the car go south instead of north.

11:28But of course, it doesn't make any sense if their intention was really to drive Susie home. Joe Fath with the Vilas County Sheriff's Office has said several times that he believes the men stayed with Susie for some time, and then something must have gotten out of control. Both Cobb and Elm were considered suspects in Susie's case pretty much immediately. And like we see in so many cases, slowly but surely, more information began coming out from partygoers, and people on the reservation who were just hearing rumors about the party, and what may have happened to Susie. Investigators would soon discover that a third man, a cousin of Robert Elm named Francis or Fritz Schumann, was also in the car with Susie that night when leaving the party.

12:18Like Cobb and Elm, he is also considered a suspect in this case. However, he has been even less forthcoming than Cobb and Elm. Investigators have called him outright uncooperative, and Fath told PBS Wisconsin that he believes all three men know that if they keep their mouth shut, they're less likely to face charges in this case. Which is really what seems to happen. While Cobb and Elm did give those initial statements, they really haven't told investigators much else. Mostly just that for some reason they dropped Susie off at this elementary school around 4.30am, and that due to being intoxicated, the rest is a blur.

12:58This really is where Susie's trail ends at this point. Getting into the car with those three men. There are no confirmed sightings of her, and investigators don't find anything related to her disappearance in any of the searches. Not a piece of clothing, a wallet, there's just nothing. until Thanksgiving Day. That's when two deer hunters find Susie's partial remains. According to reporting by Lauren Stevenson for Newswatch 12, the men were in the Chewamegon-Nicolay National Forest in Price County, Wisconsin, about 12 miles from where Susie was last seen, and about 100 yards from a forest road.

13:42This area has been described as a thick cedar swamp and is said to be frequented mainly by local hunters. As these two men were making their way through the forest, they saw a purse and a pile of brush, really kind of underneath a log. They also found Susie's tribal ID and a jacket. And as they pulled the jacket out from under this log, they found a human jaw. They immediately called authorities. They also hung Susie's jacket and ID on a nearby tree to help them find the exact area where she was found. Both the Vilas County Sheriff's Office and a crime lab field response team were dispatched to the area.

14:28Investigators do believe that Susie was sexually assaulted. Essentially, they say that while it seemed clear that animals had been a factor in scattering her remains across the area, they did not see the same pattern with her clothing. Here's part of that reporting from Newswatch 12. On Thanksgiving Day 1990, two hunters were walking here in the Schwamigan National Forest in Price County. They came across this area where they found Susie Poupart's purse, her tribal ID, and a jacket underneath this log. When they pulled the jacket out, they found a human jaw. There were indications that the remains had been scattered by animals, and we didn't see that same indication in the clothing.

15:14Investigators believe Poupart had been sexually assaulted and left naked. They also think her remains were wrapped in plastic since they found plastic and duct tape at the scene. The remains had been covered by wogs and brush. It appeared there was animal activity that dispersed the remains, and the vast majority of the remains were not recovered. Susie was officially identified using dental records, and investigators asked her son Jared to identify her purse and a necklace found at the scene. Remember, he was only nine when his mom went missing. In his interview with Dateline, he said, quote, He told me my mom wasn't coming home, and I refused to believe him at first.

15:59Later, police showed me her purse and a necklace found with her, wanting me to identify them as hers but I didn't understand. End quote.

16:12According to statements made by Fath while they did confirm that this was Susie unfortunately they weren't able to determine her exact cause of death due to the lack of remains found. There just wasn't enough evidence to say how she died but based on how her remains were found and the plastic material found at the scene it was ruled a homicide. At this time, DNA technology was still relatively new, so while they did gather and preserve evidence from the scene, they weren't able to do the extensive testing we're used to seeing in newer cases. Basically, they could just determine that there was male DNA on some of the items found at the scene.

16:53There was no official link to any one particular man. However, investigators were able to make a link between their suspects and the area where Susie was found the old school way. It turns out some of them were known to hunt in this exact area. When it comes to what your family eats and drinks, you know your choices matter. You're the expert because you know what fits your life. And getting it right starts with good information. That's why America's beverage companies are sharing more information about our ingredients at goodtoknowfacts.org. No spin, no judgments, just the facts straight from the experts for more than 140 beverage ingredients.

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18:28But they knew one thing for sure. They had a homicide on their hands. And pretty quickly, they were able to link two of their three suspects to this area. It turns out that Robert Elm and Joseph Cobb were known to hunt deer in this exact area. But they weren't talking. In fact, according to reporting by PBS Wisconsin, Robert Elm, Joseph Cobb, and Fritz Schumann all left the reservation shortly after Susie's remains were found. Though the reporting that I found doesn't specify which one of the suspects that Fath spoke to, he did travel to Florida to talk to one of them. And this process lasted for several days.

19:11And in at least two instances, this man asked Fath to remove a picture of Susie he had on the table, saying he didn't like her eyes staring at him. Fath told PBS Wisconsin, quote, I had a picture of Susie that I kept on the table the whole time. I said, no, the picture stays here. You need to see her. End quote. But despite Fath pressing pretty hard, Susie's case went quiet for a few years, until the district attorney convened a series of legal proceedings called John Doe hearings. They had two in the early 1990s and a third in 2007. Now, these aren't held everywhere, so I want to explain exactly what they are.

19:55In the state of Wisconsin, they have these John Doe proceedings. It's of course a legal process conducted by a judge to investigate whether a crime has been committed and by whom. They can be used to try to compel witnesses to testify and basically make some type of progress in a case through this testimony. They're also used to determine if there is sufficient evidence to move forward with a prosecution. Basically, everything is up to the judge. Now, these can be initiated at the request of a district attorney, or from a citizen complaint if the DA refused to press charges. The judge does have the ability to subpoena and examine any witnesses, and if the judge deems it necessary, a John Doe proceeding can be conducted in secret.

20:43If it is secret, the record and testimony are basically sealed. Only the judge and DA can access it, unless portions of the proceeding are deemed relevant for use in later court proceedings. The judge can also issue what they call a secrecy order, which can apply to the judge, prosecutors, law enforcement, interpreters, and reporters, but it cannot be applied to other parties. Now, witnesses testifying in these proceedings do have the right to have an attorney present to basically consult with, but the attorney can't do any of their own examination, cross-examinations, or make any arguments. It's actually pretty similar to a grand jury, except it all boils down to what the judge thinks.

21:30Like I said, the first two hearings were in the 1990s, and these were held in secret. But the third hearing in 2007 was made public to help put some pressure on the people that they believed had information. However, despite the media being present for some of the hearings in 2007, the transcripts for all three as a whole are sealed. So we don't know everything. But here's what we do know about the 2007 hearing. All three suspects were subpoenaed to appear and testify at this hearing. Robert Elm did appear. But the judge stopped the questioning upon discovering that he did not have a lawyer to represent him.

22:14Fritz Schumann also appeared, but he invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination and did not answer questions And Joseph Cobb did not show at all Newswatch 12 was one of the local news stations covering the hearing Vilas County Chief Deputy Joe Fath told the court the three people police believe are connected to Pupart's death are Joe Cobb, Robert Elm, and Francis Fritz Schumann. Fath says records show the three got in the car with her the night she disappeared. Cobb did not show up in court today. The other two did take the stand, but Robert Elm did not have a lawyer, so the judge stopped his questioning.

22:57When Schumann testified, he invoked his Fifth Amendment rights. Vilas County Chief Deputy Joe Fast says they are not giving up on this 17-year-old murder investigation because every day they are getting closer and closer to finding the person or persons responsible for the death of Susan Poupart. We're getting closer to the point where the district attorney's office can review the entire case file to make a probable cause determination. One step closer to solving this unsolved murder. Today's John Doe investigation is used to determine whether criminal charges should be filed in the case. Court was scheduled to continue tomorrow, but will reconvene in September.

23:38This will give police two months to track down Joe Cobb. Chief Deputy Joe Fath urges anyone with any information to come forward in this case. Joe Cobb was eventually located. but these hearings ultimately didn't result in any charges against any of the three men. Robert Elm, Joseph Cobb, and Fritz Schumann all eventually moved back to the reservation. According to statements made by now Chief Deputy Pfaff, they've all been arrested several times on charges of violence against women, drugs, and assault, but none have ever been charged with Susie's murder or anything related to Susie as of recording this episode.

24:22Fath even said directly that his office was trying to charge them with every other crime they were found to have committed, stating that they, quote, really need to go to prison, end quote. But Fath attributes the lack of progress in Susie's case to community members choosing to stay silent about what they know out of fear of retaliation and a general mistrust of the government, which has unfortunately been earned by law enforcement officials. As far as Susie's children, well, they've been pretty vocal about the impact this has had on them. After their mother's death, they were separated. Alex was adopted by one of Susie's friends, while Jared stayed with his grandmother.

25:05Though in the end, they were raised by a variety of different adults. They were in and out of foster care, and at times experienced homelessness. They also learn that some of the adults they were in the care of misappropriated the funds they were given to care for them. Jared says they basically live in this community while their mother's murder was this open secret to most. He says one of the suspect's children would tell him directly that her dad didn't kill his mom. Eventually, he says he turned to alcohol and fighting to cope with all of it, before realizing that his mom wouldn't have wanted that for him.

25:41He later began working at a tribal economic support program to help those in need. In that reporting by PBS Wisconsin, he said, quote, That's not who I want to be remembered as, you know. The guy whose ma got murdered, and he went off and just beat people up and drank his whole life. I'd rather be remembered for helping people. End quote. Alex now has five sons, and she's a stay-at-home mom. She says she was angry too, and she now lives near the house her mother was last seen at. She has a lot of the art that her mom created during her time at the Institute of American Indian Arts, and she shares her mother's memory with her children.

26:21She has hope that this will be solved, saying, quote, when it all comes out, I can explain everything to them and how we are now getting justice, end quote. Jared and Alex have discussed what they think happened to their mom. They believe that she did get into the car with those men, resisted their sexual advances, then she was sexually assaulted before being killed and then taken to the forest. Investigators also agree that this theory is likely. Jared said, quote, we've always heard that it was her beauty that got our mom killed. Since she wouldn't be with them willingly, they had to kill her.