William Tyrrell Part 3

25:58So really, anything is possible. He added that in 97 % of similar cases, the crime is committed by someone the victim knows. Police said they believe William could be in that rare 3 % of those abducted by strangers, and for the first time, they confirmed that they believe William was abducted and taken from the scene in a car. This is something they'd never publicly stated before this inquest. But police also say that they have no idea where William is, no forensic evidence, and no key suspects. Really, with this hearing taking place just shy of 5 years since William was last seen, this admission feels a lot like Superintendent Paul Fian telling a radio host we have no leads on the fifth day of the search for William.

26:44But Craddock clarified that just because someone is referred to as a person of interest, it does not mean that they're a suspect. And there was a list of more than 50 witnesses set to give evidence at the hearings. This included Bill Spedding, Margaret Spedding, Tony Jones, and Paul Savage. New South Wales police say that despite having no main suspect, they are confident they can solve William's case. Now, the early police work in the case was the main subject discussed in the first days of the second part of the inquest, but Gary Jublin's name was not on the witness list. Instead, they called on David Laidlaw to testify.

27:22The police were questioned about why it took until 2018 to conduct a proper forensic search of the area William was last seen, and why official statements were not taken from some key witnesses the day he disappeared. Most notably, William's foster father was not asked to give a statement and was not recorded until he did a video walkthrough with police on September 18th, six days after William's disappearance. While on the stand, Detective Sergeant Laura Beccroft agreed that this was not the best practice, but said she couldn't provide a proper explanation because she wasn't officially assigned to the case until 2015 and did not take part in the initial search.

28:02As Jubelin had previously stated while still on the force, police at the inquest reiterated that the 2018 search was conducted to disprove the theory that William was simply lost in the bush. They wanted to prove to the coroner that if William's remains were there, they would have been found during that search. And we get more details about that search here. For four weeks, every single day, 30 to 40 officers specializing in searching were out there cutting down plants that could potentially cover evidence, using cadaver dogs to search for remains, and also using a tool that plunges into the ground, basically pulling out smells that could alert a cadaver dog.

28:39One of their goals was to find any materials matching the Spider-Man suit or the sandals William was wearing that day, and they didn't find anything resembling either. Throughout the four weeks, investigators recovered backpacks, toys, small bones, and a spear gun, but none of them were known to have any connection to William. Police say that they did find a gravesite with a wooden cross marked 2014, but they dug it up and found a dog. They say there was basically a cemetery behind William's foster grandmother's house, where people would often bury their pets. And they conducted a further search of the cemetery after someone reported that they'd received third-hand information about someone swapping and moving around the headstones.

29:23but they say they didn't find anything abnormal. In the end, they say that the conclusion of this 2018 search was that William's remains were not in the area he could have traveled on foot, so he must have been taken from the area, which of course brings us back to the question, by whom? Well, by week two of the August hearings, a new person of interest was introduced to the court. Robert Martin Donahue, now 43 years old, was a volunteer member of Tari State Emergency Services when William disappeared, and says he helped in the initial ground search. But just a few days after William's disappearance, Donahue was arrested and charged with sexually assaulting three mentally disabled young men in 2011.

30:09He was later convicted of five out of the initial 13 charges against two of the three alleged victims. He claimed he didn't know it was illegal to coerce a mentally disabled person to have sex with him, especially since he faced cognitive impairments himself. Overington reports that all of those young men were over the age of 18, but were at the developmental level of children ages 6 to 9. In his criminal trial in 2015, Donahue testified that he met those young men through his volunteer position with state emergency services. Overington also writes that when arrested for those charges, the officer arresting him asked if he understood what he was being charged with, and he said, quote, no, not really.

30:58Unfortunately, no one seems to be able to confirm exactly where Donahue was or what he was doing on the morning William disappeared. In September 2014, he did work at a Caltech's gas station in Lakewood. It's about a 10-minute drive from Kendall. Sharon Starr, Donahue's former manager at the station, took the stand to say that she did not know for sure if he worked on September 12th, but she thought he did. She said they used a fingerprint scanner to clock in and out, but she had not yet been able to check those records at the time of the hearing. She said he had a white van he often slept in between shifts, and he often parked his van at the local swimming pool or the Kendall showgrounds.

31:38That's where police set up a staging area during the search for William. Now, Donahue had another job as a contractor for a local recruitment company. In September 2014, the company was installing the National Broadband Network in Tari. A man named Troy Brown was a junior supervisor for the company at the time and took the stand to review a timesheet for Donahue for the week of September 7th through September 12th that was signed off with his name. But Brown said that that signature was not his, and that signing off on timesheets would have been above his pay grade at the time. But it's never really made clear if Donahue was the one accused of forging these signatures.

32:17Brown also said he didn't remember if Donahue was working on September 12th, but knew that he himself was. Now, in August 2018, New South Wales police did search Donahue's white Suzuki van while it was stored on a family member's property. and documents note that nothing of interest was found. Donahue does eventually take the stand himself, and he prefaces his testimony by saying that he may speak slowly because he has a cognitive impairment, and asking those questioning him to speak up so he could be sure that he heard them. He tells the coroner he was, quote, bashed in jail, so his memory isn't 100%, and that he doesn't remember joining state emergency services, but he does remember joining the search for William and being briefed in the car on the way to Benaroon Drive.

33:06He said there were so many people around William's foster grandmother's house that it was, quote, like a football game. He also confirms that he did drive a small white van at the time that could be described, quote, like a station wagon, end quote. Of course, that would make it similar to one of the cars William's foster mother saw that day. He says he received the call to search for William around 4pm that day, and searched until midnight. Caroline Overington reports for The Australian that once the video of Donahue being interviewed by police was shown in court, he was dismissed from giving further testimony.

33:45And the reason for that dismissal was protected by a court order. So, take that for what you will. next we're going to talk about ron chapman telling the court in his own words what he says he saw on the morning william disappeared and police reveal that there may have been a second little boy in a spider-man suit in kendall that day this episode of voices for justice is sponsored by quince you know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over again the sweater that somehow works with everything, the jeans you know will always fit just right, and the back you carry everywhere.

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35:46How do you protect the world and the people you love at the same time? Every case hits home on Line of Fire, Monday on NBC. Next in this inquest, we hear from two men, Tim Palmer and Michael, or Mick, McKinley. They refer to each other as former friends. On the stand, the two men argued over whether or not McKinley had seen a white car driving erratically on the morning of William's disappearance. Palmer testified that in June 2018, he was visiting McKinley, and that while the two were having beers at his house on Batar Creek Road, McKinley confided in him that he'd seen a white sedan, which looked like a holding Commodore, the morning William went missing.

36:30He says McKinley said, the driver was driving, quote, sort of crazily, end quote, and seemed like he was leaning over and pushing something down into the passenger side floorboard. He adds that McKinley did not report this to police because he, McKinley, was high on ice at the time and didn't want to get in trouble. But Palmer reported it to the police himself because it was, quote, too much not to tell, end quote. McKinley says he went to the doctor on the morning of September 12th, and that on the way home, he saw a white sedan that he didn't recognize near the Kendall Post Office. That's a few miles away from Benaroon Drive.

37:11He says he told Palmer that the male driver of the car had his arm out the window and appeared to be shaking it. He says he thought this guy was maybe trying to get a better cell phone signal, but thought that the man could also just be waving at him. Either way, he insists that he didn't say that the driver was pushing anything down into the passenger side floorboard. In the end, McKinley basically says that he didn't remember the conversation with Palmer. He says they were drunk that day, so he doesn't know exactly what he told him. Now, McKinley was also asked about a Kendall man named Jeff Owen, who he reportedly played darts with at the local club around 2014.

37:51McKinley said that he was unaware that Jeff Owen was driving a white sedan in September 2014. I know I'm throwing a lot of names out there, but try to stick with me. Jeff Owen was another tradesman in the Kendall area who did electrical work, carpentry, and plumbing. He did some plumbing work for William's foster grandmother in early 2014, then came back a few weeks before William's disappearance to give her a quote on repairs to her back deck. Now, Owen actually called the landline at Williams Foster grandmother's house on the morning of September 12th to follow up on the deck project, but for some reason he was never pursued by police like Bill Spedding was.

38:31And speaking of Bill Spedding, his lawyer Peter O 'Brien was present at the inquest, and he asked Harriet Graham to call on seven New South Wales police officers who were not on the witness list, including Gary Jublin, to testify. He also asked why some persons of interest were named in the media by police, while other suspects were able to remain anonymous. He basically accuses the police of using the media to paint Spedding as a pedophile, despite him never being convicted of any child sex offenses. It really gets a little crazy here. Michelle Swift, the lawyer representing Brendan, called Hans Rupp to give testimony about the early investigation as well, but in response, Craddock said that the purpose of this inquest was to look at the evidence gathered, not to scrutinize the investigation that had already taken place, and that Graham's responsibility was finding out what happened to William, not criticizing the police.

39:28However, I do think it's very worth noting that Graham did acknowledge that Spedding had suffered as a result of being named a person of interest publicly. But after this, they get back on track, and Detective Sergeant Laura Beccroft, who joined the strike force in 2015, took the stand to discuss the interviews she conducted with neighbors on Better Own Drive. She testified that she couldn't find anyone else who was present on the street that morning who could confirm seeing the two cars William's foster mother reports seeing. She says that several of the neighbors walked their kids to the bus stop that morning and never saw these cars.

40:05On top of that, she says some of these neighbors were adamant that the cars were never there. Then, Paul Savage testified. Now, I discussed his testimony pretty thoroughly in episode 2, so I'm not going to recap it all again, but the key points are that Savage could hear William and his sister playing outside that morning while having breakfast on his patio. His wife Heather, who unfortunately passed away before the inquest took place, left around 10.30 to go play bingo. Savage was alerted by a neighbor that William was missing, and said he went outside to search for William in the opposite direction of where everyone else was searching, but got lost.

40:46There's roughly an hour that his actions are unaccounted for that morning. But here, the court heard the theory that something had accidentally happened to William, and the Savages helped cover it up. An example used is that maybe Heather hit William with her car while she was leaving to go to bingo, and Paul helped cover it up. Now, for the last hour and a half of Savage's testimony, the court was closed to the media. But like I told you before, as a part of their investigation, detectives installed listening devices in Savage's home and car. Dan Box reports that after the inquest hearing, Savage is recorded in his car saying, quote, Make sure you don't tell anyone, love.

41:27They're right after me. Don't tell anyone, love. Please, they're right after me. Sorry. End quote. It's unknown if Savage is ever asked about this. Bill and Margaret Spedding also testified, recounting their alibis for the day William disappeared. Of course, like I said, this includes going to the assembly for their grandson and that they have a receipt confirming that their credit card purchased breakfast at a cafe in Luriton before the assembly. More notably, Graham and Craddock take a closer look at a piece of testimony that was considered missing for the first year of the investigation. A man named Ronald Chapman says that he saw a woman driving recklessly down the road with a little boy dressed as Spider-Man standing up in the backseat of the car the morning William disappeared.

42:17He says another car, a blue sedan, followed closely behind it, and he thought they were traveling together. Now, I mentioned his testimony previously, but at the inquest, the public got to hear Chapman tell the story in his own words. He testified that he was waiting for some plants to be delivered, so he was listening for the mail truck. When he heard a car coming, he stepped outside, only to curse under his breath at the mother when he saw a little boy standing up in the back seat without a seatbelt, and kind of pressing his face and hands against the glass. He says the cars were traveling from the direction of Batar Creek Road, which, if you remember, intersects with Benaroon Drive.

42:57He remembers looking at the clock and that it was 10.45 a.m., and he describes the woman driving as plump with blonde hair in a bun at the top of her head. He says the car following her had dark-tinted windows but was driven by a man. Chapman was asked several times why, after hearing about William being missing, he didn't immediately report what he saw to the police. And he says that he did tell people, his four sisters, his niece, and her husband who visited that weekend, along with several of his friends at the Kendall Club. He says that he saw on TV that investigators were interviewing everyone who lived within a 1km radius of Benaroon Drive, so basically he was just waiting for the police to come interview him.

43:40However, it was revealed that Chapman's house was about 1.5 kilometers from William's foster grandmother's house, so outside of that range. Either way, Chapman telling those he knew about what he saw is ultimately how the police found out. It was actually someone who didn't even know Chapman but heard the information third-hand who notified the police about six months after William went missing. Now, police did finally talk to Chapman in March 2015, but for some reason didn't take a formal statement for two years. Leah Harris reports that apparently Chapman told the police he, quote, wasn't sure if he dreamt it, end quote.

44:20Now, they heard testimony that Chapman was a well-respected local man, and that the department did not find that he had any reason to make something up about William's case. And here, you guys, we get another connection. There are so many, I'm gonna have to make a chart for you guys, but it was also noted that Chapman knew William's foster grandmother, and that the two didn't get along very well. He was asked why he didn't at least tell her what he saw, and he responded that he just didn't think to. Now, the court also heard from Chapman's niece, who was visiting Kendall with her husband that weekend.

44:55She testified that they were staying at his house on Thursday night, and got up that morning to go to the cemetery. When they returned, they heard about the search for William. She says they went to the Kendall Club for dinner and drinks that night, and that the club was emptier than normal, especially for a Friday night, because hundreds of people were out searching. And she says that her uncle did not mention seeing a little boy in a Spider-Man suit to her or her husband that night, and that she didn't hear her uncle's story until they came back and visited again about a year later. She remembers that he was in a distressed state during that trip because he'd just spoken to the police.

45:32And then we hear testimony that has confused so many people and really caused many complications in this case. Police say there was another little boy with similar features to William wearing a Spider-Man suit in Kendall that morning. And that the boy's grandparents lived across the street from Chapman. I swear you guys, everyone is connected to everyone in this case. But a woman named Kelly Lee took the stand to say that her son was 4 years old at the time and had darker blonde hair similar to William's. She says she and her son visited her parents that day and arrived in the car around the time Chapman recalls seeing the vehicles.

46:14And she says that her son did have a Spider-Man costume. She didn't think he was wearing it in the car, but he did wear it that day once he got to his grandparents' house. Lee says she made him change once she heard about William, so that he wouldn't be mistaken for him. Now at this time, Lee did drive a blue Subaru Outback. The court was shown a photo of the car and Lee's son. Chapman took the stand again after her testimony and said that he was 100 % sure that the child he saw was not her son. It was William. He also noted that Lee had dark hair and the woman he saw had blonde hair. I feel like I'm gonna keep saying it in this case, you guys.

46:56Take that for what you will. Now, the first week of September 2019, the court took a look at the last photos of William taken by his foster mother the morning he disappeared. Of course, we know that the photo most commonly associated with William was taken roughly an hour before his foster mother says she last saw him. It's the one of him sitting on the deck with his mouth open, mid-roar as he pretended to be a tiger. That photo was timestamped at 9.37am, but the coroner would release four additional photos, candid shots of William and his sister coloring on the deck. These were taken on a digital camera instead of a phone.

47:36And I want you to listen to this carefully. The metadata on those files list them as having a quote, time created, end quote, of 7.39 a.m. and a quote, corrected time, end quote, of 9.37 a.m. The photos being taken closer to 9.30 fit the foster mother's timeline of events for that morning, while obviously the 7.30 time would create a large gap. This feels huge, but really just sits for now. At this point, Graham says that they're going to call in an additional expert to provide clarification on the metadata, and Brendan's lawyer, Michelle Swift, filed an application for further forensic testing to be done on the photos, which the coroner did grant.

48:24Now, Caroline Overington reports that, according to an expert on photo metadata, there could be several reasons for this discrepancy. This expert says that the camera may not have been adjusted for local time. The computer it was uploaded to may have incorrect settings. Or the mistake may be in the report itself. Or it could be that the earlier time is correct. And while I'm sure that everyone wanted those answers right then, after this, the court adjourned for seven months and would not resume until March 2020. This episode of Voices for Justice is sponsored by HERS. If you've been waiting for the right time to tackle your weight loss goals, this is it.

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50:44Although no inquest hearing was held for about seven months, in November, Graham released some documents related to the case. This included photos of William the night before he went missing, taken by a security camera at the McDonald's around 6.25pm on September 11th. William is seen eating dinner with his sister and foster parents, which lines up with their timeline of events for the day. Graham also released a statement from Constable Wendy Hudson of the New South Wales Police. She's the officer who interviewed William's sister the day he went missing. In the statement, she says that she asked his sister if he had any hiding spots, and she said no.

51:22Then, on February 21, 2020, the Australian Associated Press reported that police were interviewing a new person of interest. That man is 78-year-old Frank Abbott. That reporting calls Abbott a key person of interest, and says he has no alibi for the day William went missing. Police interviewed Abbott in prison, where he was serving a sentence for child sexual assault charges in 2019 and 2020. They also searched a sawmill on Hearing Creeks Road, where Abbott lived at the time of William's disappearance in 2019 and again in 2020. That reporting explains that Abbott was expected to testify when the inquest resumed in March, and sure enough, when that inquest resumed on March 9th, Abbott was present via Zoom watching from his prison cell.

52:11When allowed to speak, he said he was promised a lawyer to represent him during the hearing, but he hadn't been allowed to leave his prison cell on Thursday or Friday of the previous week, and no lawyer had reached out to him since then. He was reassured that a lawyer from legal aid would arrive to represent him before it was time for him to give testimony himself. Like I said, in 2020, Abbott was serving jail time after he was convicted on four counts of indecently assaulting a child under 16, and six counts of having sex with a child under 10. Just a note, you guys know that I hate that they call it having sex with a child, but that is the legal term they use.

52:51Either way, these crimes were committed against three victims, two girls and a boy. The youngest was only seven years old. As of recording this episode in 2026, Abbott is still in jail for those offenses, but in September 2014, he was a free man. He lived in Huron Creek. It's a small village that's about 10 minutes from Kendall if you know the right back roads to take. He lived on the mid-north coast since the late 1980s or early 1990s, also living in nearby Hounds Creek and Johns River. But really, he was known for moving his caravan wherever someone else would allow him to park it, and in September 2014, he lived on a man named Daniel Parrish's property.

53:34Neighbors and acquaintances describe Abbott as dirty and unkempt, but say you could have an intelligent conversation with him. Now, while the child sex abuse charges he was convicted of in 2018 were the most serious, they were not his only criminal convictions. He'd faced charges related to firearms and one for escaping law enforcement custody. But more significantly, Abbott was tried for murdering a 17-year-old girl, twice. But he was ultimately found not guilty. See, back in 1968, 17-year-old Helen Harrison went missing while riding her bike home from work. Her bike was found a short time later, and her body in another location.

54:18In 1990, Frank Abbott was charged with her murder and put on trial in 1993. Several witnesses claimed Abbott admitted to following Helen on her way home from work, then taking her into the bush and raping and killing her. One witness claimed Abbott showed her a pair of blue underwear and a watch he claimed were Helen's. However, due to issues with evidence, no verdict was found in that trial. Abbott would be tried again in 1995 and found not guilty. He was also found not guilty of indecent assault against a young girl in 2010. And there's more to this story. His wife Katrina died in 1991, and several acquaintances have speculated in interviews that he was involved in her death as well.

55:06But the coroner's report lists her cause of death as liver failure. Abbott also had a son named Darren, who unfortunately passed away in 1984. Very little is known about Darren's death, but reports state that he was either two or three years old. His cause of death is listed as asphyxiation. An inquest was held to investigate, but those files are sealed and marked top secret, and in the end, no one was ever charged in relation to his death. Now, Caroline Overington reported in her 2021 documentary series, The Disappearance of William Tyrrell, that authorities had tried hard to suppress this information in light of Frank Abbott being named a person of interest in William's case.

55:50Dan Box reports that Gary Jublin asked one of the other detectives on the strike force to look into Frank Abbott in 2018, because we have another connection here. Abbott was friends with Jeff Owen, who, as I mentioned earlier, was a local tradesman who'd done plumbing work for William's foster grandmother and quoted repairs to her deck in September 2014. Frank would later live in his caravan on Jeff Owen's property while out of jail on bond for the child sex charges. Basically, he would help Owen with his work in exchange for a place to live. Although they claim they didn't know each other until they were in jail together after William's disappearance, Abbott is also connected to Tony Jones through his son-in-law.

56:32He's Jones' neighbor. You may also remember from episode 2 that Jones lived across the street from Bill Spedding. Again, you guys, I know it's a lot, but these are just the facts. Either way, Dan Box reports that Abbott told one person that he was one of the hundreds who'd been searching for William after his disappearance, but he told another person that he'd never been to Benaroon Drive. So Dan Box and his producer Nina Young dig a little bit deeper. They say that they confirmed in their research that Abbott was once employed by the owner of the subdivision William's foster grandmother lived in.

57:09Now, there's no evidence that confirms whether or not he was on Benaroon Drive that day, but one of Abbott's neighbors and acquaintances, Gail Veronica, told Box and Young that she saw him standing on the highway near Kendall in the days following William's disappearance. and she says that he looked like he could barely walk when she saw him that day. Things really only get more strange from here. People who know Abbott say that he talked about William a lot after he disappeared and we'll take a look at some of those statements in a minute. But Box reports that even once Abbott was in prison, he would call the police and demand to speak to somebody about William Tyrrell.

57:47Now he made a lot of claims about William's case that were proven to be untrue And Abbott had what many would call an unfair advantage before the inquest hearings. He had all the evidence that would be presented against him at the inquest sent to him in prison, and he was able to read it ahead of time, so he knew what information the inquest knew, and didn't know about his life and behavior after William disappeared. Not just that, Box and Young report that he also had the evidence against Paul Savage and potentially other suspects questioned at the inquest. This would obviously allow him to plan his responses to the evidence against him.

58:24Now, Box and Young do say that it isn't uncommon for people questioned in these types of inquests to receive the information pertaining to them before the hearing, even if they are potentially a suspect. This is because usually an inquest doesn't take place until there are no other leads to investigate. But like I said, this was never true for William's case, especially for their inquiry into Frank Abbott, police continued interviewing him and searching the properties he once lived on while the inquest was taking place. But either way, before questioning witnesses about Abbott, Craddock and Graham called Tony Jones back to the stand for another look at his alibi, or lack thereof, from the day William went missing.

59:05I covered his testimony while discussing Jones in part two, but I want to mention that when asked about Frank Abbott, Jones mentioned that Abbott had tried to talk to him while they were in jail, but Jones said, quote, no way I was going to talk to Mr. Frank Abbott, end quote. When Graham asked if he could remember what happened on September 12, 2014, he responded, quote, can you remember what happened in 1952, end quote. He also reportedly became aggressive with members of the press who tried to speak with him outside the courtroom, and he broke a reporter's camera. When an officer asked Abbott if he knew Jones, Abbott denied it, but says that he'd once visited a property near Kendall where there was a log dump.

59:50He said he ran into two men there who had a little boy with them who looked to be about seven years old, and one of the men introduced himself as Jones. He said the two men were in an old white station wagon. Abbott said he later saw a photo of Jones on an episode of a current affair about William's case, and thought he must be the same man he met near Kendall. But again, keep in mind that Abbott had the evidence that would be presented at the inquest hearing ahead of time, and he knew that the coroner and police would try to tie him to the white station wagon seen by William's foster mother that morning.

1:00:25Now I'm sorry, I hate to do it, I have to introduce some more people here. A woman named Jodi Huntley, her husband Peter, and their daughters lived next door to the property owned by Jeff Owen in 2015 when Frank Abbott lived there. They both say that Abbott talked about William on multiple occasions, and they say that he once knocked on their door to tell them that Jeff Owen was a person of interest in William's case. They added that they were uneasy when Abbott was around, because their daughters were young and they didn't want him around them. Jodi said Abbott would often ask for rides, but she wasn't comfortable with having him in the car.

1:01:01She also says that she posted on Facebook after William's disappearance, asking why Owen's property hadn't been searched. She noted that there was a kid's Spider-Man sleeping bag in Abbott's caravan. Now, she says that she went to Crimestoppers to report this, and when she didn't hear back, she went to talk to the police in person. And according to her, a week later, they did search the property next door. But that wasn't the only concern they went to police about. And this is very disturbing. The Huntleys say that they also reported Abbott to police because they feared he was luring their dog into his caravan with bones and sexually abusing it.

1:01:41Now, I really don't want to go into details of this, but Jodi says that once she reported the alleged abuse to the police, things went quiet and they didn't see Abbott as much anymore. Then, members of the Anderson family, who were former neighbors of Abbott's and formerly owned a store in St. John's River, also took the stand. They say Abbott would tell neighbors that he could detect a bad smell coming from the bush around the time William disappeared. When they said that it might be a dead kangaroo or another animal, Abbott said that he knew the difference between a kangaroo and a dead human smell.

1:02:17The Anderson say that they encouraged Abbott to report this to the police, but he said that he wouldn't because if they found anything, he would be blamed. Now again, this mother, Jan, testified that they didn't trust Abbott around their children, but Jan's adult son and daughter both testified that Abbott often casually bragged about, quote, beating a murder charge, end quote. Dean Anderson said that Abbott considered not being convicted of Helen Harrison's murder, quote, a badge of honor, end quote. Dean also testified that while police were looking at Bill Spedding, Abbott commented that he thought police were looking in the wrong place for William.

1:02:57Then we hear from a young woman who testified that in 2018, she was babysitting two young brothers for a week. She said the younger of the two brothers told her that he knew who killed William. It was a man named Frank Abbott. He said that Abbott put William in a suitcase, and that he'd seen this suitcase. And this young woman says that at this point the older brother became flustered and told the younger boy, quote, you weren't supposed to tell people that, end quote. She describes the older brother as looking afraid and said he finally told her that they were threatened that if they told anyone what they knew about Frank and William, that, quote, their mom's neck would be snapped, end quote.

1:03:42A second young woman testified that the babysitter had told her this story the day that it happened and that she had, quote, no thought that they might have been making it up, end quote. And we have more witnesses. A woman named Iris Northam testified that Frank Abbott worked for her and her husband in their scrap metal yard in the 90s. She says Abbott worked for them when he was charged with Helen Harrison's murder. She added that he was questioned about the murder of a mother of three named Margaret Cox who went missing in 1996. She said a few days after Margaret was killed, she saw Abbott with large gouge marks on his arms, and when she asked him about them, he said they were, quote, from oysters, end quote.

1:04:27But she testified that to her, the marks looked like someone had dug their fingernails into his skin as hard as they could, and that she knew that there was no way that oysters left those kinds of marks on him. And for what it's worth, detectives confirmed to Caroline Overington that they were looking at a potential link between the murder of Helen Harrison and the murder of Margaret Cox. Brothers Daniel and Martin Parrish also both testified at the inquest about their relationship with Abbott. As I mentioned, Abbott was actually staying in his caravan on Daniel Parrish's sawmill property when William went missing.

1:05:04Daniel would hire Abbott to help him with odd jobs like moving logs or digging holes so a fence could be installed. but Daniel reported to police that Abbott claimed William's body was buried on Jeff Owen's property. And this is key. Daniel also testified about the artist's impression sketches of the two cars William's foster mother saw parked on the street the morning William disappeared, and he says he recognizes the white station wagon in the drawing as belonging to Abbott's close friend, Ray Porter. He testified that the first time he saw the drawing, he knocked on Abbott's door to show him the picture, and he said Abbott was quick to reassure him that the station wagon in the drawing was not Porter's.

1:05:48He also testified that Abbott once told him he'd beaten a murder charge before and wasn't afraid to go to jail. Outside of the courtroom, Daniel Parrish told reporters that Abbott used to, quote, brag about William, end quote, and say he knew where his body was, but also noted that he's a bad liar. When asked by a reporter if Abbott was capable of killing William, he responded, quote, while he scares me, I'm still scared of him on that damn stand. That's really all I want to say, end quote. Danbox reports that Martin Parrish, who is Daniel's brother and a pastor, was visiting Abbott in jail to help him with legwork ahead of the inquest hearings, especially when Abbott received the evidence that would be presented against him.

1:06:35He said detectives had personally told him Abbott was a suspect in William's case, and he was working to help Abbott navigate the issues caused by the investigation. Martin testified that he has, quote, difficulties accepting, end quote, that Abbott was guilty of the sex crimes against children that he was already convicted of. He said that he thought that there were, quote, mitigating circumstances, end quote, in those cases. He would later clarify that he meant dates and locations of the alleged assault weren't confirmed. He also said that once Abbott had a chance to appeal his conviction, if he was still found guilty, then the verdict would be, quote, acceptable.

1:07:17Now, Daniel Parrish wasn't the only witness who testified at the inquest who mentioned Abbott's friend Ray Porter and his white station wagon that he drove in 2014. Unfortunately, Ray Porter did pass away in a nursing home in 2019 before this inquest was held, but they found a nurse who worked with him. She says Porter told her, quote, I didn't do anything wrong. All I did was give my best mate and a little boy a lift, end quote. She testified that he called the boy, quote, the little boy from the television, the one who went missing in Kendall, end quote. The nurse asked him if he was talking about William Tyrrell, and Porter said yes.

1:07:59She said he claimed he picked Abbott and a little boy, who he believed was William, up from a shed behind Kendall Public School, and then drove them 300 kilometers, or about 185 miles, north. Now, Caroline Overington reports that CCTV footage was located of that white Holden Commodore station wagon with the tag registered to Ray Porter driving north on the highway out of Kendall on September 13th. That's the day after William went missing, and that it also caught it going back the following day on the 14th. Unfortunately, the video doesn't show who's driving the station wagon, or if there's anyone else in the car, only the vehicle and Porter's license plate.

1:08:44Now, Danbox reports that Ray Porter was in Port Macquarie Hospital on September 12th, 2014 having dialysis treatments. He also says that Kendall Public School is about 2.5 kilometers or 1.5 miles from 48 Benaroon Drive. On top of that, other witnesses testified that Porter would often give Abbott rides in that vehicle, and that Abbott was seen around Kendall driving Porter's car on several occasions. And a second nurse took the stand to confirm that she overheard Porter tell the other nurse that story, and that she contacted police afterwards. Now, Ray's brother Tom Porter and Tom's wife Irma also took the stand.

1:09:25They testified that they often visited Porter in the nursing home in the months before his death, and that Ray was tired of detectives, quote, badgering him about some child, end quote, and asking him about things he, quote, knew nothing about, end quote. They testified that when they asked Ray what he was talking about, he said that he and his mate were fishing when a young boy and girl walked toward the water. He said they told the kids to go home because it was dangerous for them to be by the water alone, so they left. They say they asked him if he was sure that's what happened, and he said yes.

1:10:01Irma also said at the inquest that after Ray's death, she found a letter in his home that she believed had been sent from jail. It asked Ray to move a boat, and she says it was signed, quote, your good friend Frank, end quote. But she admits that she didn't keep this letter because she didn't understand its potential significance. Now, Jeff Owen himself was called to testify as well, and he confirmed that he did do some plumbing work for William's foster grandmother earlier in 2014, and returned later in the year after William's disappearance to repair the deck. He confirmed that he did call the house that morning, but insisted he wasn't told that the children were there and had no contact with Abbott that morning.

1:10:45Owen testified on March 18, 2020, but his testimony was cut short when the inquest adjourned indefinitely due to COVID-19, which meant that Frank Abbott never testified himself. Now, Craddock and Graham assured those in attendance that the investigation was still ongoing while the inquest was suspended. And they added that thanks to that testimony at the inquest, a brand new witness had come forward. Now, when the inquest stopped, Frank Abbott was still the strike force's main focus. But in the months ahead, the investigation would turn back to William's foster mother. Without her knowledge, police would place listening devices and cameras inside her home and intercept her phone calls.

1:11:31The investigation her family feared was winding down was now focused on her. She denied having any involvement in William's disappearance, but detectives would eventually tell her that they weren't guessing about what happened to him. They knew exactly where he was. But I'll go over that next time in my fourth and final episode about William.

1:12:01As a reminder, William Tyrrell was last seen on September 12, 2014 at 48 Benaroon Drive in Kendall, New South Wales, Australia. He was three years old at the time of his disappearance, and if he is alive today, he would be 15 years old as of recording this episode. He's white with straight brown hair and hazel eyes. He has a large, dark-colored freckle at the top of his head, about 5 centimeters or 2 inches back from his hairline. If you have any information about the disappearance or location of William Tyrrell, please contact the New South Wales Police Department. In the meantime, please keep sharing William's story.

1:12:42But, as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.

1:12:49Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice media original. This episode contains writing and research assistance by Brooke Haynes. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show on your podcast player. It's an easy and free way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice.

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