Can Anyone Stop Todd Blanche from Becoming AG?

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1:00When I called up former prosecutor Harry Lippman to talk about would-be Attorney General Todd Blanche's confirmation hearings today, I started off with a quiz. Do you happen to remember where Todd Blanche was at this time last year? Oh, that's good. It's a fun answer. Oh, I got to guess. I got to guess. Down interviewing Zelane Maxwell, perhaps? That's so close. On July 17th, reportedly, that is the date of the infamous Situation Room meeting. Todd Blanche and like a whole cavalcade of people gathered, hunkered down to try to figure out what the hell are we going to do about these Epstein files?

1:47This is reported by The New York Times. It's so interesting to me that like a year later, literally almost to the day, this guy is going to be in front of the Senate trying to become attorney general. Like what a trajectory for him. I mean, interesting is one word for it. For Harry, there's a whole list of things that makes Todd Blanche unqualified to be attorney general. Like under Blanche, hundreds of attorneys have abandoned the Department of Justice. Its remaining lawyers have aggressively pursued the president's enemies, from former FBI director James Comey to the governor of Minnesota, Tim Walz.

2:31A judge just tossed the January 6th slush fund Blanche championed and even suggested Blanche be referred to the New York State Bar for discipline. All of this hits especially hard because Todd Blanche worked as a prosecutor. Harry thinks he really should know better. You're going to see some witnesses in favor of him. You've seen some op-eds. And they basically say, oh, he'll make the trains run on time. The next guy could be worse. And I'm like tearing my hair out. The guy is presiding over prosecutions of innocent people and handing out sweetheart deals in the billions because the president that he says he loves, those are his words, not mine, wants it.

3:21Period. Full stop. But anyone looking to challenge Blanche's promotion needs to make a case to a bigger audience than just resistance libs. So Harry expects a whole lot of talk about Todd Blanche's role overseeing the release of the Epstein files. It's not just that Blanche did that notorious interview of Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, last year, after which she was transferred to a better facility. Blanche was also in charge of everything else Epstein. Former Attorney General Pam Bondi said so herself last month. for Harry. The real question is whether any of that is going to make a difference.

4:03You recently interviewed Adam Schiff, the senator, and he's on the Judiciary Committee, so he's going to be in the room with Blanche today. He seems confident Blanche is going to be confirmed. And his confidence comes from a true place. He rattles off all the people the Senate's confirmed, despite all kinds of evidence that maybe they aren't qualified. People like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. or people like Kash Patel. It's not a great list. It's not a short list. And you can see people falling in line already. Like Tom Tillis was looking doubtful here. He then met with Todd Blanche, who's been doing the rounds on Capitol Hill, and basically said to CNN, like, oh, I have a more positive predisposition towards him.

4:50And this is a guy who's about to retire, right? Tillis, great example. First, remember, he's the reason we have Pete Hegseth. It was the same situation. He was a little bit kind of hesitant and they came in and jammed it down his throat. Now he is, he's leaving. And I asked Schiff and others, why would he do it now, especially since Trump has decapitated him? And the answer is, you know, when you leave the Senate, you still have to live in that ecosystem of lobbying and dinner parties and the like. And if you're the guy who actually administered the killing blow, if you're that kind of apostate, you know, you're not going to be welcome around the party.

5:38Blanche can only use one vote, lose one vote to get out of committee because we, you know, we have Lindsey Graham who just passed away and that seems dicey to me, but maybe not. On paper, it's totally dicey. This is going to be a situation where the White House will try to impose a hammerlock. That's why I think a lot of people are talking about Epstein now. Today on the show, how to watch today's attorney general hearings without losing your mind. I'm Mary Harris. You're listening to What Next. Stick around.

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9:51I think there are going to be two big scandals that dominate these confirmation hearings, and I want to go through them each with you one by one. I want to start, if we can, with the most recent update, slush fund gate, as my producer put it. Just if you can, remind us about this story, because I feel like there are so many scandals at this point, that we need a reminder about this January 6th slush fund, how it came to be, and why it was so scandalous, because there were actually two parts, one being a$1.8 billion fund for people who say the Department of Justice was weaponized against them, and the other being immunity from prosecution for Donald Trump and some of his cronies.

10:33So just explain that for me. Sure. And it really is breathtaking, Taking both in scope and the gravity of the corruption. Donald Trump brought a suit against the IRS because it had revealed his private tax information, of course, the very information he promised again and again, but lied about to reveal to the public. And there are a lot of problems with this lawsuit. Like, first of all, it shouldn't have been able to be brought because of the timing, all sorts of stuff. It's barred by the statute of limitations. It's against someone who didn't work for the IRS, but was a contractor. Who's already in prison, I believe.

11:06Is already in prison, as he should be. He shouldn't have divulged this information. And he was criminally prosecuted for it. Trump brings a lawsuit under a statute that permits you in grievous situations to get$1 ,000. $1 ,000. The lawsuit's failed before because the DOJ has killer defenses. And they just decide here rather than defend and win, they will, oh, make this deal for the taxpayers in return for getting rid of this worthless, legally completely meritless lawsuit. We'll give you one point six billion dollars of a fund for anyone who says they were weaponized by the Biden administration.

11:56That to me. Even more than that. One point seven, seven, six. Like, it's just like the numbers are huge. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. One point seven. Yeah, exactly. And then just thrown in for for, you know, kicks because he loves them so much. A amnesty provision that the IRS won't investigate Trump and his family and his company is worth at least one hundred million dollars. Okay, the real problem here, it wasn't just meritless. It was unconstitutional. I don't want to get too pointy-headed, but the Constitution says you've got to have real cases. That's all that federal courts can hear. And it looked like this wasn't a real case.

12:36And why? Because Donald Trump controlled both sides. That's literally the kind of case that you can't take the first step in. And the judge noticed this. And just earlier this week, she came up with a holding that said this was a fraud on the court. This was totally an improper purpose of trying to paper over a collusive lawsuit, meaning an unconstitutional lawsuit. Because I'm making an agreement with myself. I, Donald Trump, I'm making an agreement with myself. Right, right, right. Right. It's Mary v. Mary. And Mary decides generously to give Mary, oh,$1.776 billion. OK, so this this was announced in May.

13:17And at the time, it was a massive deal, including for Republicans. Like Senator Ted Cruz went on his own podcast and talked about having 45 senators in a room with Todd Blanche. That's right. Yelling at him. So it's like this is clearly something that upset the very people who would have to be voting to advance Todd Blanche as attorney general. Right. And they actually, including Tillis and Corwin, pushed back a little before kind of crawling back into line. But I want to say something about the hearing today because we have now a court ruling that says this was unconscionable. There is no settlement agreement.

13:59In fact, you're not allowed, Todd Blanche, to whom she's sent this opinion to the bar authorities for possible discipline, you're not allowed to refer to a settlement agreement. It doesn't exist. Now, remember when Jack Smith testified and the DOJ said, you better watch your butt, because if you say anything about volume two, there's an order from a judge in Florida named Eileen Cannon. You'll be violating it. In theory, if Blanche tries to make the defense that this was part of a settlement agreement, he's violating that order. Is that a good or a bad thing? That seems like actually that means the senators can't really question him on one of the major topics they want to question him on.

14:43Here's what they can question him on. The thing that's left, the thing that Williams didn't, the judge didn't deal with. Maybe they'll try to do it anyway. You're saying maybe Todd Blanche will try to do the settlement, even though the judges said, no. And by the way, you should be referred for disciplinary action. Right. He won't call it a settlement anymore. It's just a what? A raw money grab of taxpayer money,$1.776 billion,$100 million, in return for nothing. You can't think of a more sort of crystalline violation of the public interest. Let's just, even though we don't even have the fig leaf of saying we're settling a case, here are you January 6th insurrectionists, here are you president of the United States.

15:32Are they still going to try to do it? So this decision is a heart, is a headache for them. Yeah. In some ways, I feel like the question that people should be looking for today when they're watching these hearings is senators asking again and again, will you authorize payouts for January 6th rioters or other people who may have been included in this settlement? Because you can talk about the idea behind the settlement without using the word settlement and you can press and you can press and you can press. And I'll bet that they talk about the settlement anyway, but it'll be hypocrisy based on the Smith interview.

16:09But you're exactly right. They want, and you know, this is tricky stuff. He's a lawyer. He's been truculent before them. He knows how to parry questions. But things just like that, Mary, very direct, yes or no, etc. Of course, they can get him to make these pledges. They can be not even worth the, you know, we know he doesn't like to write things down. the sound waves, and he could skate through. Remember, when you start doing the numbers, it's both in committee and then on the floor. The, you know, if it's 50-50, Vance does the tie-breaking vote. I've been disconsolate to think of the sort of experts in the political landscape who think he's going to get through.

16:56It seems like you might as well have Roy Cohen or you can't think of anyone worse based on his track record. He did this. He said this. He championed it. And you senators are going to ratify that, the worst thing that a Department of Justice can do and completely different from how any other person would be handled. Both the riches to the Trump friends and the prosecutions of Trump enemies, utter, breathtakingly unjustified, lawless, etc. You're going to let him now take the helm, take the reins at the Department of Justice? What are you guys thinking? Coming up, the Epstein of it all.

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19:07Let's talk about the Epstein of it all. Pam Bondi in June, she testified in front of Congress and she really clearly was like, well, Todd Blanche was in charge of the Epstein files, So that really does leave this opening now that Blanche is going in front of the Senate for the Senate to say, OK, so you were in charge of the Epstein files, sir. How do you feel like that went for you? I guess maybe first of all, should we be taking Pam Bondi's testimony at face value? The answer is yes. It's not just Bondi, but a lot of other indications that, of course, he was running the show and he was the White House's man on the ground.

19:46Just the fact he's in the Situation Room, right? So I think I think so. And there's no indication to the contrary, whereas he's the guy who knows stuff, speaks to it. But yeah, let's so let's talk Epstein. Two million documents still not turned over. And he seems to think and not just, you know, in an apologetic way, but in a chest beating way. That's all you're getting. He's been contemptuous of Congress. also the redactions this gets a little legal but you need a reason for not uh for concealing information he's never even tried he's never talked to this is so easy and they just won't get won't give the victims the time of day by giving them uh interviews one thing i actually fear about the hearings is he can make some very easy concessions yeah we'll talk to the that don't in any way go to his basic qualifications, but he'll sort of do it.

20:43But the record is tawdry. And what he says in defense is, well, we did a lot, you know, two million. And what does it contain? At least I did something. And I did right. And redactions. Well, we still have other stuff to do there. You know, this was a law that very clearly everyone but one member in Congress voted for president was forced to sign. And it said by such and such a day, you must produce everything, etc. They didn't come close. And in fact, the rollout was totally political, right? Do you remember these first hundred documents when they were supposed to give us everything were all about Bill Clinton?

21:21I mean, it's such a terrible record. We should be clear about why people are pissed about the Epstein files. Like, first of all, there's the issue of the fact that they weren't all released, even though we heard that they would be. Then there was the fact that who was redacted and who wasn't, right? There were people who were redacted, who were clearly corresponding with Jeffrey Epstein about women and girls, redacted. And then unredacted were victim names when it was promised that those people would be protected. So just a lot of really bruising mistakes in here, especially for the victims, right?

22:00So true. Well, first, there's all this Keystone Cop stuff, but also all this purposeful knowing failures to comply. And you're right. This is something that, you know, MAGA and the Trump kind of home team was very focused on. And now they've given him, I wouldn't say a pass, maybe a half pass. This is the thing that does keep coming up. And I think that's why it's going to be a focus at today's hearing. It just gets purchased in ways that other very, very grave kind of ultimate corruption, acts of corruption and abuse don't seem to really excite, especially Republican senators. Yeah, I mean, some Epstein victims will be sitting and watching Blanche's testimony.

22:53Some have issued a joint statement, and there are statements that will be read. So I feel like we very much will hear from the victims during this testimony. I agree. You've alluded to this, but Sarah Longwell from Over the Bulwark really has made the case that if you're going to go hard in these hearings, do it with Epstein, because it's the thing that resonates in a very bipartisan way. Democrats are mad about it. Republicans are mad about it. Both sides have questions. And it's a place you can really, really make a mark. Two points about it. Indefensible, they clearly haven't complied. And you're right.

23:33Every time it comes up, I saw I listened to Sarah's interview with Bill Kristol. And it is the thing that even the home team who support Republican senators really are up in arms about. So she's making she herself seems to think he's going to get through. But but this is the best. This is the sort of spear tip of the spear to use, because there's there's no way of saying they did it right. That Ghislaine Maxwell meeting is just, to me, a sort of pure example of total impropriety. And it's the one thing, even while, you know, dating back months, when it rears its ugly head again, everyone's in the situation room.

24:14Oh, man, what do we do? This is something that actually lands blows on Trump and his administration. I think I've spent a lot of time thinking about these hearings and what I actually should go in expecting of them. Because I think, and your Adam Schiff conversation proved this to me, I think we can't expect that the hearings are going to prevent Todd Blanche from running the DOJ. And I say that for a couple of reasons. The first reason is that even if he wasn't approved to be the actual attorney general, he can serve in an acting capacity for basically forever. And then there are the people who are making the argument that, well, you don't want to see Attorney General Bill Pulte, do you?

25:00The guy who Donald Trump has put in his acting DNI. You don't want to see that guy. So you better hurry up and confirm this guy. So I think there are a couple of pressure points that will keep Todd Blanche moving down the road here towards approval. And I started to think of these hearings less about him becoming attorney general and whether he should become attorney general, because frankly, he's already acting attorney general. And more about this is a chance to get this guy under oath. And for you as an attorney, I wonder if you see it that way, too, where it's like the most powerful thing here is having this man under oath, being able to question him publicly.

25:41And then you have all sorts of things to investigate moving forward. A few points. And, you know, Sarah makes this point. Look, he's going to get confirmed, but you can sort of put in certain markers. First, it's just a fact. Almost every Judiciary Committee member shifts an exception. White House is an exception, is just not good at the really honed in questions. There are a lot that Blanche will parry back of his hand. Oh, I can't discuss that with the president or its very general kinds of defenses. But yeah, having someone under oath. I mean, we see that Trump and everyone in the administration turns cartwheels to avoid it.

26:22But just a couple points on it, on the quixotic, you know, how hopeless it is. First, I was at the department justice for a long time and worked on nominations, confirmations. I tend to doubt this scenario that if he loses, he becomes the acting. They can do it. But man, you're so crippled in that situation. In every meeting, you're down a stripe. I think it would be much less likely than people are assuming. And then second, yeah, it's true. Everything you're saying, Sarah's saying, markers for the future. But we've seen him set markers in the past and just mow them down. And to me, I really want the pressure on the senators.

27:08What would you ask him if you could? If you're a prosecutor, you know what I mean? You were a prosecutor. Like, what would you ask this man? Yeah, no, I'm thinking about I've thought about this a lot. I want. Yeah, you want to hone in on very direct questions that he can't wriggle out of because he's skilled at making general kind of, you know, tub thumping answers. What was the public purpose of your meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell? Why is it that there were all these 86-47 cases that you ignored, but you brought one for Comey and all these civil cases that you defended, but you gave billions of dollars for Trump?

27:50What was the difference in why you did those? You told us no political prosecutions. Are you here to tell us that you've stuck by that pledge? Just very specific where he's either got a cop to it or tell a very non-credible fib. We've talked about the slush fund. We've talked about Epstein. Is there anything else you'd add to that pile as things you're watching? I personally want to see people like Schiff and White House carrying the water on. What is frigging wrong with you, Todd Blanche, that you could defend prosecutions of innocent people because the president doesn't like them? How does that possibly dovetail with what a Department of Justice always has been and is supposed to be?

28:47Harry, I'm really grateful for your time. Thanks for coming on the show. Likewise, right? Thanks for having me. I'm really looking forward to the hearing. You're going to be locked in. I can tell you're going to be locked in. I already am locked in.

29:04Harry Lippman is a former federal prosecutor and assistant deputy attorney general. He's also the host of the podcast and Substack Talking Feds. All right, that's the show. What Next is produced by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme, and Patrick Fort. Paige Osborne is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TVD. Mia LaBelle is the executive producer of podcasts here at Slate. Ben Richmond is the senior director of podcast operations. And I'm Mary Harris. Go track me down on Blue Sky. I'm at Mary Harris. Thanks for listening. Catch you back here next time.

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