Hasan Piker and Adam Mockler Are Ready for Something New

0:00When it comes to managing money, forget the hype and look at results. Bill has a trillion dollars of secure payments powering our BillPay tools. Instead of just moving money, Bill is powering the financial operations of nearly half a million customers. So stop the guesswork and start scaling with the proven choice. Ready to talk with an expert? Visit bill.com slash proven to get started. And grab a$150 gift card as a thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details. Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day. But what policy changes should investors be watching?

0:38Listen to Washington Wise, an original podcast for investors from Charles Schwab, to hear the stories making news in Washington right now. Host Mike Townsend, Charles Schwab's Managing Director for Legislative and Regulatory Affairs, takes a nonpartisan look at the stories that matter most to investors, including policy initiatives for retirement savings, taxes and trade, inflation concerns, the Federal Reserve, and how regulatory developments can affect companies, sectors, and even the entire market. Mike and his guests offer their perspective on how policy changes could affect what you do with your portfolio.

1:14Download the latest episode and follow at schwab.com slash WashingtonWise or wherever you listen.

1:23Hey friend, it's Mary, Here to tell you the story of why I do what I do. I've been interviewing people for a bunch of years now, and each time the mic is on, I am trying to make sure you don't feel alone, that you have the most up-to-date information and analysis to get you through your day. Ideally, on this show, you have met people who are grappling, just like you are. I don't like spitting random facts at you. I want you to leave this show feeling like we have decoded something together. A lot of times, I think we succeed. But I got to say, doing this work is getting harder in a world that is hostile to journalism.

2:06That's why every now and again, we come to you and we ask that you join Slate Plus and support what we do. Right now, Slate's got a bunch of specials going on. You can join for yourself or even for a friend at 50 % off. So if you're a regular listener who likes what you hear, who feels less alone when you listen, I'd love it if you gave right now. The way to do it is to go to slate.com slash whatnextplus. You use the offer code whatnext50 at checkout. You can also go to slate.com slash giveplus and surprise a loved one with all access to everything we do. Again, you will need that offer code. It is whatnext50.

2:49All right, that's enough salesmanship from me, but thanks for helping us out. Here's the show.

3:02When we decided a few weeks back to set some time aside once a week to talk about the upcoming midterms, we knew we wanted to do a couple of things. First, we wanted to call these shows Super Tuesday, because that's fun. But also, we wanted to talk to a few of this election's main characters.

3:25Hassan, Adam, welcome to the show. Thank you for having us. Great to be here. So yesterday, I wound up on the line with YouTuber Adam Mockler and Twitch streamer Hassan Piker. I'll introduce you for people who don't know you. Hassan, you're best known as a Twitch streamer who talks lefty politics. And who also showed up at the Republican midterm convention in your underwear on a big screen. Congratulations on that. Thank you. Good on you. Adam, you are a political YouTuber who spends a lot of time trying to explain the youth to old folks on CNN. I think that's fair. What do you think? No, that's very, very fair.

4:03And I don't know how I'd ever explain this sound picture to the old folks on CNN. I don't know where you begin with that.

4:12Hassan is about as left as you can get. The GOP has done everything it can to elevate some of his most objectionable takes about communism, about Israel. But he's also really electrified some younger voters. Adam talks to those younger voters too. He especially likes to debate them. Then he shows up on cable news to translate what they've got to say. I thought both of these guys would have thoughts on whether this upcoming midterm felt like it could be one of generational change. Yesterday, I got the New York Times at my home because I'm actually pretty old and I get the New York Times in a little blue bag.

4:52And it had this article in it, which I'm going to read you the headline. Calls for generational change don't resonate in voting booth. Ruth, I just want both of you to respond to this, maybe starting with Adam. Like when you see headlines like this, how does it make you feel? I really disagree with that because we are seeing right now a massive shift in the power center of the Democratic Party towards younger voters, especially in the primaries. Hassan, you're nodding. So I assume you're also in this camp. Obviously, yes. I think it's really funny because like I was listening to another podcast the other day where they were talking about how Gen X is like going to get skipped basically in the leadership roles.

5:35I mean, hi, I'm Generation X. I'm feeling the pain. Yeah. The exchange of ownership on virtually all aspects of industry and possibly politics as well is going to skip the generation and then go directly to the millennials. And we're, as Adam also correctly pointed out, we're seeing that already. I think that's just the New York Times trying to get their last remaining readership to not feel like scared about what's going on like oh the this is listen this is like a reader service package i mean here's here's here's what i thought when i read it like i read a little deeper and i was like hey what are they saying here when they say generational change isn't happening they seem to define generational change as younger challenger beating an incumbent at the ballot box which i thought was kind of interesting it's a very specific way to define it.

6:25And it's to me, it's just like worth pointing out that 20 percent of Congress is like leaving like they're out of their seats, they're retiring or whatever. So change is coming like it or not. I just want to say that's not how I would defend define generational change. You see a lot of these older senators leaving. You see Senator Dick Durbin or Tina Smith or Gary Peters all retiring. On the Republican side, Mitch McConnell is like brain dead, senile, throwing a peace sign every single day. And the generational shift isn't just about whether you're an incumbent or a challenger. It's a few things.

6:57It can be communication on social media. It can be the way that you promise to use the power once you actually have it to change the lives of Americans. Or it can just be authenticity. I think ideology does explain a lot of it because you do see the more like left-leaning candidates, people taking more progressive positions, doing well. But I think it's more multifaceted than that because you can look at the highest fundraising Democrats of this cycle. And I believe it's Tallarico at$75 million and then probably Jon Ossoff. I think it's like$50 million or something. So these candidates have an insane amount of individual fundraising, not through the DNC, but individual fundraising.

7:33And they're entirely different candidates. Like Tallarico is different than Ossoff, is different than Momdani in New York. They're all progressive and authentic and they want to take on the system. But I think that there's a lot to it beyond ideological. They have some shared goals, but there's obviously social media strategy. The willingness to wield power once you have it is very important to voters. Yeah, I think that is the key. That is definitely the key, though. Like, fighting. An individual appeal. Like, not hooking it to the party. Yeah, and I think that dynamism is baked in when you're younger.

8:09Today on the show, what would a generational change midterm look like? And is it possible? I'm Mary Harris. You're listening to What Next. Stick around.

8:30Hi, this is Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman. I've been writing about food and restaurants for almost 50 years, my whole career really. And what I know is that the good restaurants all have something in common. They're busy, genuinely, chaotically busy. And somehow in the last few years, the best of them have begun to make it look easy. And do you know why? Because they're running on Toast's technology. Toast is built for restaurant owners who understand that Toast's tools keep the line moving and keep their customers happy, with fewer mistakes and hiccups in ordering and paying.

9:08For owners, that turns busy into business. To learn more, head to toasttab.com. That's T-O-A-S-T-T-A-B, toasttab.com. Toast, built for busy. Grainger knows if you're a procurement manager at an industrial manufacturing facility, You're balancing inventory and budget while sourcing critical supplies across the operation. Too much inventory? Costs climb. Too little? Production slows. Grainger's$2 billion in on-hand inventory helps you get what you need when you need it, so you can help keep budgets balanced and lines moving. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done.

9:54This message is brought to you by today's sponsor, Walden University. Set a course for change. Now is the time to make a real change in your life, career, and community. At Walden University, we give you the support and flexibility to get the W. Walden's online programs are designed for working professionals like you. You'll gain hands-on skills to take on real-world challenges and succeed. Your future is waiting and Walden is here to help you achieve it. Take the first step to make your impact. Visit waldenu.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. certified to operate by Shev.

10:34OK, so I'm just going to take us back a little bit. I feel like ever since Joe Biden took to a debate stage and face planted, Democrats in particular have been having this generational change conversation. And even though Kamala Harris eventually replaced Biden on the ballot, I feel like this question, like, what if he passed the torch sooner? Like, how could it have gone differently? It's just it's looming there. Right. And we're about to have this midterm election. And it basically started off with the generational question, right? You had David Hogg, the activist, survivor of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas shooting, basically saying, I want a primary people.

11:10We need a generational change. And it was interesting to me because even his message was like a little bit muddied. Like in the beginning, he was explaining why he was supporting an 80 year old incumbent in Illinois who eventually, you know, stepped out of her race. But like, it shows to me like how this generational change thing is. It's like a feel thing. It's like it's you can't define it by data points so well. But I do feel like what happened with Hogg was this moment where I realized how rocky things were going to be for the Dems because he was in the DNC. He was a vice chair. And just saying we need generational change, he was basically like out.

11:48And he was like, this isn't working. You've got to go. Right. Are things better now? Forcibly so. Yes. The voter base has changed the incentives that politicians follow. And the incentive is no longer to take money from special interest groups and do scripted, consultant-written television hits every single Sunday. Now it's these more nimble, flexible videos where you're talking about the corruption of the system, I think the voters shifted the incentives of what politicians have to do in a campaign. Yeah. I mean, how do you see that? I guess each of you like, oh, is there are there particular races where you're like, oh, I see like this.

12:23This is happening. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Maylock Kuros in Denver, Colorado, unseated long term incumbent. And and I think like Abdul El-Sayed is obviously the most like nationally significant race but i mean daria lisa unseated another incumbent the head of the congressional hispanic caucus adriana espayot um and and these are you know deep blue districts but then also uh michigan is is quote unquote a purple state or a swing state i oppose that framing but you know i'll i i think that these are michigan is never supposed to be a swing state we turned it into a swing state with our, with our ineptitude, with our incompetence, with NAFTA.

13:06And then also by, by not leaning into the populist rage that people were feeling. And that created a unique opportunity for the Republicans to basically farm that outrage and redirect it back to marginalized groups and, and make a more convincing message, generate a more convincing message that they were going to be the anti-war side twice, once against Hillary Clinton. And when also once against Kamala Harris, when it's clear that they were never going to be anti-war. I mean, they are warmongers. They always start way more wars than even the Democrats do. This was very frustrating to observe from afar.

13:40That's why I don't think it's, I don't think Michigan, I think Michigan is a blue state. I think it's only turned into a swing state because we've missed. It's interesting because I look at Abdul El-Sayed and I actually see like both the case for and against generational change. And I'll explain why, which is he, they just their new york times just did a survey and they showed that he i think they said he has more support among young people than they've ever seen before like 80 plus percent support from 18 to 29 year olds which is amazing right but that that that rests on them turning out which i think is a little bit of a question and like being able to vote and being interested in voting and like not skipping it um and you know then there was your involvement in the race which has become a huge lightning rod because he needs Jewish voters to turn out.

14:30He needs Jewish voters to turn out. And a lot of more conservative Jewish voters have looked at your involvement in that race. And they've basically said, you need to distance yourself from Hassan Piker. Hassan Piker is part of the problem. You know, he's too aggressive about Israel. Like, do you have any, do you have any regrets looking back on how you spent, like, so it was, when were you out there, like May with him April? Yeah, it was April. And then also the night of the primaries while I went back, but that was more so for Donovan McKinney than Abdul El-Sayed, who also unseated the incumbent Shri Tanadar.

15:05But no, I do not have any, I do not have any concerns with my involvement whatsoever. I don't think that it was the wrong thing to do. I think that we showed once again, that, that we were able to defeat$70 million in outside expenditures. I mean, that's a, So that's not just impressive. But people barely, right? The polls said that Hassan would perform way ahead, and it was much closer. And I think that as we get closer, that's where people are like, he's making us nervous, making us nervous. I think that this is unfathomable. It's just never happened before. We've never had a candidate. Look, money in politics is obviously very important, right?

15:42It's also very successful. I believe the stat is like 96 % of the time, the side that has more money wins, right? And the side that spends more money wins. And that makes sense. That means that you can set the narrative. You can, you can set the agenda. You can actually disparage your opponent. Then your opponent has to spend a lot of money, not, not talking about his policy platform, but instead defending himself. Right. So then, you know, money, money plays a pretty formative role in these races. There's never been a situation where a candidate was outspent 12 to one where they still ended up winning uh that election it's never happened there's angie nixon where she was outspent 16 to one and she's still no angie nixon was out raised 16 to one i think she was still outspent like six to one which was incredible again uh and and because he sat on the money to a testament to how bad the other candidate was and and also how little he campaigned and a testament to uh the the uh state of florida looking at angie nixon is saying this is the kind of fighter that we want.

16:43She has established herself within her community as a real fighter in the state legislature for years. And that obviously played a big role in her victory. Adam, I want to get you in here because I feel like another, we've sort of danced around what's happening in Texas a little bit, which I do think is another race where we're talking like generational change, right? We have James Tallarico. Here's what I see when I look at that. I wonder if that race is about generational change or about a terrible Republican candidate on the other side, right? We have James Tallarico for the Democrats, and he is young and he is, you know, pulling ahead of Ken Paxton, which is kind of amazing because Beto wasn't doing that.

17:27But Ken Paxton is like a remarkably bad candidate. Even Donald Trump doesn't seem to like him and is like not calling him up on the stage when they're campaigning together. Just talk to me about this race. Yeah, really quickly. I want to ask, Kassan, do you regret palling around with Abdul now that the New York Post says he farts in public, according to an ex-aid? This New York Post tweet has 2 million views and it's supposed to be some hit piece. They're getting weaker and weaker. The October surprise. The October surprise is that he's flatulent. It's so insane. We've all been this. We're all Abdul Al-Sayed.

17:58But Mary, answer your question really quickly. So it can be both and. Obviously, Tallarico is a really strong candidate while Paxton is a very unique candidate. But it goes back to the framework I laid out at the beginning. You have to look at how Tallarico is promising to use power once he gets it and how he's communicating online. There's this really viral video from like a week ago of Tallarico calling Paxton's cell phone number and asking him to debate him on Fox News. And Paxton doesn't answer. He's running from a debate. He's openly admitting that he basically gave a plea deal to a pedophile named Adam Hoffman.

18:31He was impeached by his own party. All of this is true. And now we have these new leaked recordings. But on the other side of that, like I said, Tallarico is very impressively used digital media. And look at his campaign promises. They are revolving around making the system work for the average voter. Many young people right now are skeptical that the system can even respond to us in a meaningful way, even if we did vote someone in. So Tallarico is proving that he will use this power in a very responsible way and to help people. Like a few weeks ago, Tallarico went on Jimmy Kimmel's show, I Shit You Not, that has 15 million views on YouTube, I believe.

19:08That's using the new media or at least a decentralized YouTube platform to push your narrative. He makes short form clips. He is a fighter who is bringing the fight to Ken Paxton, demanding that there is some sort of debate. And overall, I think just taking money out of politics, advocating for a ban on gerrymandering, Supreme Court reform. And the GOP feels legitimately scared of Tallarico. Yeah, I know they are. Like all of the FCC stuff about, you know, shutting down The View or whatever, it was all about Tallarico. They just did not want him to be able to be on the airwaves. I also like how responsive he is to his older comments.

19:45It's really easy sometimes to kind of slip around things that were said in 2020. But Tallarico seems to genuinely address them, talk about how he's changed. And I can't lie. It drives me effing crazy when I'm doing these debates. And they try to point out Tallarico's comments from 2019. And I'm like, dog. What's a comment that he's constantly hung with that you're talking about? God is non-binary, maybe. They always ask me, do you think God is non-binary? And I'm like, dog, Ken Paxton let a pedophile go. His own party impeached him. This isn't some hypothetical. We know how Ken Paxton will use power.

20:14we know how tallarico will use power i don't care about some corny ass comments that are like a little bit too vague it doesn't matter ken paxton is uniquely corrupt so it can be both and i know all about old comments uh that you've apologized for all the way back in 2019 resurfacing is a line of attack let me tell you well you're absolutely right they have nothing right and i've been saying this from the start the republicans have nothing what what can they what can they lean into they have no agenda every single thing that they have attempted every single thing that Trump has attempted, has backfired.

20:46Everything he touches crashes and burns. The economy is in tatters. People are really feeling it. Well, you can see it in the fact that a lot of the candidates really don't want to debate. You brought up Talarico offering to debate with Paxton, and it's like a whole lot of them are just like, no, I don't need to show up for that. Mike Rogers ran away too. Mike Rogers ran away from the first debate, and he pointed to the fact that Roop Raj, who's a very well-respected, credentialed reporter in Michigan, was biased in abdul's direction i think it was a little bit racist for him to also imply that as well because rup rogers brown and you know they're they're obviously presenting abdul as this like scary brown guy um having said that i think voters are seeing that they're not responding positively to that and the the cult the base of power the republicans have is like shrinking every single day did you guys see the report in politico where they were like the people who show up at the front row for donald trump at all his events are starting to like be like i just want to show up for him to be impeached.

21:42And I was like, ouch. Like the person who literally showed up to try to turn people like to vote against your impeachment is now the person who wants to see you go. I mean, Trump fundamentally betrayed the American people on every single issue, but that doesn't mean the Democrats automatically have trust, which is why conversations like this are so important because the Republican Party has no trust. They started a new war. They effectively crashed the economy with tariffs and with higher gas prices. And Trump pulled health care under the feet for millions of Americans. So, So, I mean, Republicans are very unpopular and Trump seems to be declining and his messaging is getting worse.

22:16But like Democrats really need to come with the fire once they get into power. It needs to be it's a must. The Democrats get into power and they pass single issue bill after single issue bill actually advocating for, I don't know, Medicare for all or ending tax credits that are very detailed. I think banning stock trading among the president, his cabinet and Congress needs to be one of the immediate goals of Democrats. And if you introduce it as a single issue bill, then the Republicans are on their back foot and they either vote against it or they abstain. It's just we need to be ruthless once we do have power.

22:50But I do feel like that's what we're seeing in this midterm election, which is like all of these ideas bubbling up because I don't feel like they've been coming top down. But I do feel like I'm seeing in these candidates like these ideas. It'll just be interesting to me to see what happens when a few of these people do get to Washington, because the kinds of ideas they're talking about are not like brand new. We've been talking about them for a long time. It's just that they haven't gotten done for whatever reason, a lot of time because of Republicans, but sometimes because, you know, Democrats are like, wait, wait, wait, wait.

23:21It's largely because special interest groups that are distorting the campaigns of politicians. And once they get into office, they're not beholden to small dollar donors or individuals who donated. It's the large special interest groups. We brought up David Hogg earlier. He always says, I don't know if he came up with this, but he says that it's not just about APAC. That is the litmus test to see if a, you might say this too, Hassan, APAC is the litmus test to see if a politician is willing to sell out. But you see this across every industry, like the military, the pharmaceutical complex, all of this.

23:49It's a game to change the incentives of politicians. And the incentives of politicians are oftentimes to get reelected at any cost. And if that means taking money from an entity that is unpopular among your base, they'll do that if it increases their chance of getting reelected. So I do think that as the voters in a bottom up way change the incentive for politicians to communicate and to take money from individual donors, you will then see more flexibility in Congress to pass what we want. We'll be right back after a quick break.

24:30This episode is brought to you by FreshBooks. Whether you just launched your service business or you've been at it for years, the money side has a way of pulling you from the work you actually love doing. FreshBooks changes that. FreshBooks makes the money side of your service-based business easy. You log your hours, you send a branded invoice, you get paid and know your numbers instead of chasing them. Money in, money out, all in one place. No more juggling one app for clients, another for billing, plus a pile of spreadsheets and emails. FreshBooks is designed for how small business owners think about money, not how an accountant does.

25:04You don't need a financial background to use FreshBooks. It's simple on purpose. Most owners are up and running in minutes, not days. And if you need help, a real person is available on every plan. FreshBooks has been trusted by service businesses for over 20 years, helping over 500 ,000 owners and solopreneurs run their business confidently. Right now, my listeners can get FreshBooks for less than three bucks a month for your first four months. That is 90 % off. Head to freshbooks.com slash podcast to get started. That's 90 % off under three bucks a month for four months at freshbooks.com slash podcast.

25:46Think of a toilet as just an everyday object. Your entire perspective shifts the moment you experience a Kohler Smart Toilet. Design changes everything, transforming a basic routine into something extraordinary. With standout aesthetics and intuitive controls, these are functional works of art. Stunning design that never sacrifices performance. Enjoy customizable features for elevated comfort and convenience. It's more than a fixture. It's a cleaner routine and a more refined space. Experience the difference of Kohler Smart Toilets. Find more at Kohler.com.

26:49they did. It's not like new and he is older. And then you can look at North Carolina where Tom Tillis is out and Democrats nominated former governor Roy Cooper, who, you know, that race is going so well for him that the GOP recently pulled money out of that race. Like, OK, we're not going to do ads for his opponent, for the Senate. But those are two races where it's it is kind of about the same old Democratic Party. What do you say to that? Yeah, I mean, I think I think that Roy Cooper is a really strong candidate. And I think that if we back up, you can't generalize with every single race that the non-incumbent is going to win.

27:26I think that different politicians have different coalitions. The coalition that Andy Beshear has in Kentucky is far different than the coalition that Zoran Mamdani built when he was winning in New York. So in Ohio, of course, Ohio is going to look slightly different than Michigan, where Abdul Al-Sayed is likely to win. I think that there are going to be exceptions to the rule, but oftentimes you see even these candidates leveraging social media and talking policy in a different way. Look, Sherrod Brown, again, is probably one of the more progressive Democrats, and he was a resilient force in Ohio politics for decades, right?

28:03And part of that was because of his uncompromising values when it came to labor. He's always been the guy backed by the state labor unions. And I think that is now giving him another unique opportunity to take a shot and to get back into office at a time when people are looking for that. But yes, I think it's everything. It's the generational change is people looking for real fighters. It's people that are demanding change in general. And yeah, if it works, it works. I'm not going to oppose more establishment aligned Democrats winning their seats in places like North Carolina. I don't want Republicans to be in office.

28:54I don't want them to be in power. And I think that's what the that's the beauty of democracy and is the beauty of this big tent coalition that we're trying to build here. There are going to be socialists. There's going to be people like Zoran Mamdani. And then sometimes there's going to be people like Roy Cooper as well. Or Liz Cheney, unfortunately. I mean, like I Hassan, every podcast or debate I go into over the past few months, people try to grill me on you. And they're like, do you disavow Hassan Piker? And it's it's obviously not that simple. Like we disagree on certain things. Do you disavow Hassan Piker?

29:24as like in what regard i mean i disavow myself all the time every day i wake up i'm like i disavow myself does hasana have comments in 2019 that i disagree with yeah sure even he disagrees with them does hasana have policy positions that we can talk about in a in a rational way sure but i keep getting asked about this and i think the reality is when we're up against fascism a threat like this you have to look back at world war ii i mean in world war ii they had such a broad coalition that you had like the communists the socialists you had um the liberals and you had even more republican leaning people all coalesced together to beat the fascists so yeah if it's hassan piker if it's liz cheney whoever wants to stand up against this current administration then they are welcome in the tent now hassan and i can also kumbaya moment well like listen like we'll have this true i agree with that assessment that's what that's the example i use all the time as well like you have you know you have fdr you have churchill and then you have Stalin as well.

30:20Like this is what was, this was the force necessary to combat the forces of fashion that were growing at the time. And it's happening again. And they're international. It's not like this is simply a domestic affair. What happens in America has outsized impact all around the world. I mean, our techno feudalist fascist overlords run the show. They run the town halls. They run the social media platforms that have tremendous impact in places like Brazil as well. So we also, we have to build allegiances. We don't have the opportunity to just cast aside potential allies because of some twisted moral purity attitude that we have.

31:07Does that go both ways? Like I'm just thinking, this question is for the real sickos about whether you want to like, are you holding hands with Sarah Longwell in this moment? Like people who have disavowed you are you saying no i offer you my hand i've always said i don't care about uh people attacking me in the democratic party uh even if they're former you know republicans and have worked on republican campaigns for most of their uh most of their career um my anger and frustration with neera tanden or sarah longwell does not stem from the fact that they're former republicans that now want democrats to win it often stems from the fact that they are leaning into the distraction because sometimes it feels like they have their own factional agenda within the democratic party where they're worried.

31:51It comes across as though they're so worried about the left kind of seizing power and winning more elections and, and throwing out incumbents that, um, that they, they hyper-focus and give light and give, um, and breathe life into these, uh, Republican attacks that are unbelievably silly, very cynical and have been a demonstrable, The measurable failure so far. Can I ask, when I look at this election we're about to have, I do see what you guys are seeing. And I see this kind of like generational change moment. But I really worry that it's very simple to get behind a candidate with like a one time like I'm going to vote for this person.

32:35And it is really different to have the patience to show up again and again and like make it through some legislation. Like Hassan, you were just recently in Texas at U of T talking. I just wonder if the energy that we're potentially seeing around this election, I do think we are seeing energy like there's been polling showing I think something like 56 percent of young people are excited to vote, planning to vote. Do you think that's going to translate to the work that has to be done after you're elected? That's tough. That's tough one to answer. Yeah, we're trying right now. I haven't stopped the pressure campaign in New York City.

33:15Obviously, NYC DSA does a pretty good job with this. There's like a set of bills that they're always trying to advance in the in local office and also at the state legislature that are complementary to Zora Mamdani's agenda. One example I'll give you is was a phone banking campaign that we did to call up Kathy Hochul. Kathy Hochul obviously is, you know, running for reelection, but she hasn't been responsive too much to the outside pressures demanding that, you know, we tax billionaires, we tax a super wealthy in New York city. Right. So in order to keep up that pressure, NYC DSA myself, we, we did a phone banking operation.

33:58And I think like with the, that paired up with the behind closed doors dealings that they had, I don't know, you know, what, what kind of negotiations took place, but like They came up with the Pita tax as a, as an alternate solution. Right. I look at that and I see like, he had to act fast. He had to show results for something very quickly. And like, that's what happened. Well, the childcare obviously was the, was the first one. And that was definitely like Kathy Oakle being like, we're going to help you out. Right. And that was huge. That was, that was very impactful for Zoran as well as mutually beneficial for both of them.

34:31But the reason why I brought that up is because look, the reality of the matter is no matter how much I like a politician personally or anybody thinks they're popular, they're still responsive to outside interest groups. And also they're responsive to different constituencies that are going to have differences in opinion with how to deal with certain issues. So we just have to keep up that pressure campaign. It's not exactly sexy. I mean, most people don't even care about elections to begin with, but even amongst those who care about going out and voting, there's not a lot of people who want to go out and door knock.

35:05But even amongst those who go out and doorknock there's not a lot of people who want to continue the pressure campaign against our elected representatives once they actually uh win power uh to make sure that that they follow through on this agenda so it's a difficult process yeah i think that when we're talking about young voters young voters are fundamentally skeptical that the institutions in america are even responsive to them as i said earlier and young voters are losing patience like all voters they're losing patience. And they're wondering if politicians are going to get into power and continue to pull the rug out from underneath them like other politicians have done before.

35:41So I think it's really important that when Democrats get into power, we show results on a granular level. Like we're able to, again, connect the dots in voters' heads between I voted for this person and I am seeing results. This might sound kind of like gaggy, but this is a real thing that Zoran's doing that's working. He's responding directly to some TikToks that people post about holes on the road or about like bridges that are broken. I swear I have young, young friends who I grew up with back in Indiana, a red state, and they follow Zoran on Instagram. They follow Abdul on Instagram. I know these people are more conservative leaning, but they can appreciate, God bless, God bless you.

36:18I can, I can appreciate this, this new style of communication from Zoran, making sure that politicians are responsive. And again, well, I will say like when I interview people who are running even for Senate, like these kind of insurgent candidates, all of them talk about constituent services. And when you talk to people who are talking to like John Ossoff, they're like, he's a master of constituent services. And I feel like this has been a real change. Like you want to talk about generational change? I hear that so much more than I did five years ago. I think that a more accessible constituent service across all democratic campaigns and people in office would be really, really solid.

36:51And again, getting into office and passing those single issue bills, forcing the conversation is really important. And we're in big trouble if Democrats get into power and they continue to back off of their positions like in prior Congresses. We have to push forward forcefully. And I see Zoran doing that. Even if it's imperfect, I see him doing that very well. Okay, one more question. Yeah, go ahead. I think Adam also nailed it when he said, like, you have to show your work, right? And that is the beauty of what Zoran has been able to accomplish. It's not that he's, like, great at identifying what problems New Yorkers are facing and immediately seeking out solutions to them.

37:25but he's also promoting it. And that was a huge issue with Biden. It was impossible for him to do this because he was far too old, unfortunately. But that was one of the main things that I criticized Biden over throughout the four years of his presidency was the fact that they were doing phenomenal work in certain areas. I'll give you one example. Under Biden's leadership, through the needle exchange programs, through like clean sites and whatnot, And through the mass availability of Narcan, fentanyl overdoses, opiate overdoses went down for the first time ever in his last year during an election cycle.

38:09Yep. And you never heard about it from the Biden administration. And it blew my mind. In fact, you started hearing about it when Trump got into office. Yes. And that's so frustrating to me. Like the fact that you had the opportunity to also show how bold and declarative your agenda is, even if it like kind of. Well, they would say we don't know yet. Do you know what I mean? It was it was a hesitancy because it was like, we don't know what it is yet. We don't know if it's real yet. And I think what you're saying is like, you can't be afraid to be your own. Yes. It blew my mind that like even the Afghan withdrawal.

38:40Right. There were a lot of issues with it. Sure. Fine. But that was actually a courageous thing for Biden to do. And no one was on in his corner. It was literally people like myself and like Trump or Trap House. Okay, that would be a hard one to rebrand, though. No, but regardless, I think people should have very clearly said, well, guess what? You're talking about 13 of our bravest soldiers dying in Kabul, right? Okay, under Trump's leadership, 67 Americans died, and no one ever talked about it because we were cutting the unnecessary deaths across the board. Like, there is a way to... No, you're right.

39:16There is a way to communicate these things. And the Biden administration was too afraid. They were too afraid of their own show. Biden ended a 20-year war, and Trump still somehow branded himself as the anti-war guy. And then Trump restarted a war in the Middle East after Biden ended one, imperfectly, but he ended one. So I agree. It kind of reminds me of how Biden passed that infrastructure bill and put up signs. And when Trump got into office, he replaced all of the signs with his own name. What do they say? Shamelessness can get you anywhere in America. So yes, maybe a little shame. And we we have to we have to be more shameless.

39:49We have to promote what we're doing. Like, no, there's nothing too little that that you should cast aside. I mean, though, the the reason why it's a slippery slope, right? Like, if you believe in science and data and whatever, like, I know the opioid world well, right? So it's I know the scientists were sitting there like, we don't know what this is. We don't know what this overdose like thing means. And so if you believe in waiting to actually know something before you're out there yelling about it, I can see how you get into this trap. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I hear what you're saying.

40:21I'm not saying you're not saying something real. I think they shouldn't have waited. I think that the fact that opioid deaths went down for the first time in decades under Biden's leadership and you could directly tie it back to, like, mass availability and Narcan was—that's it. That's, like, that's the number one problem in the heartland. You could have just hammered that point over and badgered Republicans over the head with it over and over again. You have to be shameless. That's what I'm saying, because our opposition is shameless. They're shameless. Mary, I hear what you're saying, but also that immediately creates an asymmetric playing field, as Hassan just said.

40:55So if Trump is out there campaigning and in full force, Fox News and all of his surrogates are lying about the fentanyl numbers or the overdose numbers, like they have no respect for the truth. They will put all of their voters in a different reality. I am not saying we should do that same thing. We shouldn't be lying to them like that. But if Biden or whoever else in the admin who can actually speak were able to make a video looking to the camera talking about safety, drug usage and the fact that these have dropped, that is way more effective than being hands off and saying, you know what, we don't want to risk it.

41:24So less risk averseness and more willing to actually communicate or else it's this infinitely asymmetric playing field where they will lie. They will continue to beat up our democracy, tear up the Constitution. And we have Chuck Schumer over here trying to make sure that the fine print of the rules are being followed by Democrats. It's also playing offense. Do you know what I'm saying? It's going out there and bragging about something rather than just responding. But OK, I have one more question for each of you before you go. We've been talking about generational change. We've been talking about young people.

41:52We've been talking about all that stuff. for each of you looking at the fields of candidates who's an old person who gets it adam you go first an old person old candidate an old candidate who gets it my answer is gonna be real easy i'm it's bernie sanders well okay yeah yeah okay i gave you a layup there do you have one adam bernie's a good answer i'd have to think about it for a second. I think Sherrod Brown's been running a really good campaign and he's a bit older. What's interesting about him is it's a hyper local campaign. He's not out there. Do you know what I mean? Like he's, he's doing his thing in Ohio and he's like, I'm going to talk about data centers relentlessly and I'm just going to keep doing this loudly and clearly Donald Trump is not on the ballot for me like last time.

42:40And I'm going to try to win this thing. Is 61 old to you? Does that count? Where's the threshold? I think it counts as old. I like Juliana Stratton. She's 61. I'm sorry, Julia. You have to say sorry to Juliana because you just called her old. I'm not calling her old. But she's got a really good race. She ran in Illinois. Tell me about her race. What did you? Yeah. Oh, she just had a really surgical focus on special interest groups and getting them out of politics while combating a lot of the corruption that we've seen. And she actually beat the incumbent candidate. Or no, no, no. She didn't beat the incumbent.

43:08She beat Krishnamoorthy, who was a sitting representative in Illinois. And, you know, Juliana Stratton completely wiped him. And he raised, I think, like$30 million to spend against her. So the point is - He was funded a lot by crypto, right? Yeah, exactly. So she's got a really solid thesis, and I've really appreciated watching that. Adam, Hassan, this was fantastic. Thank you for chopping it up with me. Thanks for doing the thing. I'm grateful for you. We'll do it again. Thank you for having me. Adam Mockler is a political commentator and the host of The Adam Mockler Show. You can find Hassan Piker on Twitch.

43:41And that's the show. What Next is produced by Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharm, and Patrick Fort. Paige Osborne is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Mia LaBelle is the executive producer of podcasts here at Slate. Ben Richmond is the senior director of podcast operations. And I'm Mary Harris. You can go track me down on Blue Sky. I'm Matt Mary Harris. Thanks for listening. Catch you back here next time.

44:42We'll be right back. no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Every restaurant wants to be busy. Most restaurants aren't ready for it. I'm Chef Mike from Detroit 75, and Toast helps us stay ready when the lunch rush hits. We prepare for lunch like we're preparing for battle. Orders are flying, tickets are stacking, and the guests should never fill the chaos. Toast keeps our team organized so we can serve more people, stay consistent, and keep growing. Visit toastapp.com to learn more. Pay testimonial from an actual Toast customer.