The Independent Who Might Cost the GOP the Senate

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1:49Dan Osborn: When I reached Nebraska Senate candidate Dan Osborne, he didn't exactly want to reveal his location. You are running for Senate in Nebraska. You're actually joining me, though, from New York, which I feel like speaks... No, I'm actually in Louisiana. You're in Louisiana? No, wait, I'm in Oklahoma. No, wait, I'm in Kansas. Okay, you're like pulling my chain. Yeah, I'm messing with you. To be totally clear, he was in New York. The fact that you're out of state at this point in your race, to me, it speaks to how much people who are not in Nebraska are thinking about you at this moment, right? I assume you're in the money-raising process.

2:35Well, yeah. I mean, it's a federal race, right? And there's a lot of people in a lot of different spaces, whether it's the independent space or whether they just care about what I stand for. and the fact that Donald Trump just came to Nebraska to badmouth, you know, a shop floor mechanic, it speaks volumes to, yeah, the gravity of this race. It is a national race.

3:04Dan Osborn: Yeah, I mean, do you kind of hate to be out of state right now at this moment? I do. I want to be in Nebraska so bad right now. There's too many people that I need to go talk to that have issues, that have trials and tribulations in their lives that I need to be hearing about. So when I get into the United States Senate, I can be effective, right? Dan alluded to his biography just a bit there, but let me flesh it out. First thing, he is running as an independent, not a Democrat. Dan's a mechanic, a steam fitter. He served in the Navy and the Army National Guard. He's also a former labor leader.

3:46Dan Osborn: He once led a strike of Kellogg's factory workers that lasted 77 days. Finally, this is not the first time Dan's run for Senate. In 2024, he ran for Nebraska's other seat, and he surprised a whole lot of people when he lost by just seven points. So he's back for round two. This time, no one's underestimating him. I mean, you mentioned that Donald Trump came to your state just a few days ago. He did? I mean, the state he won by more than 20 points or 20 points. I mean, some have basically framed this as a sign of weakness that he's there at all. And the polls do show you in a tight race with incumbent Pete Ricketts, who's also the former governor there.

4:32Dan Osborn: Do you think Trump's visit did what he wanted to do? Well, quite frankly, Mary, I'm going to tell you that we call her Mary Mary. She doesn't know. No, but I've got to tell you, you know, Trump coming to Nebraska was very surreal for me. Right. The Democrats are running radical left lunatic. He's a lunatic named Dan Osborne, a fake independent. I mean, Donald Trump seemed to do a lot of fan service while he was in your state. Like he first of all, he delivered this line that sort of ricocheted around the Internet about, oh, it's OK if Iran bombs Los Angeles, which seemed to be a legitimate laugh line with his audience.

5:18It's a small price to pay for keeping the world safe, keeping our country safe. They can take out a city. Let them take let them let them take out Los Angeles. Let them take out San Diego. San Diego. That's where my aircraft carrier was stationed for four years, San Diego. It's a huge naval base, and he's joking about getting bombed. But, you know, I thought Trump was going to come to Nebraska and sign an executive order releasing the full extent of the Epstein files. That's what I was told and was excited about. But that didn't happen. So here we are.

5:57Dan Osborn: So a new YouGov poll has you up by one point in the Senate race, which that's tight. That's very tight. And I feel like in a state that Donald Trump won by so many points, it's tough to know where this race goes. I sort of wonder, do you consider any movement in a state like Nebraska a kind of win? I suppose so, but I don't do things just to play the game. I do things to win. But here's the thing about Nebraska right now is this is the closest Senate race in the country. So you've got to ask yourself, or we have to ask ourselves, why? Why is Nebraska, who for the last 20 years has been red, red, red, why is it?

6:52Well, it's because bad policy, right? Bad policy is hurting our agriculture industry. And Nebraska is first and foremost an ag state. You know, we're first in beef. We're third in corn. We're fifth in soybeans. And all of these policies, whether it's not passing a farm bill and then bad tariff policy, blanket tariff policy that hurts our farmers and now the war in Iran that is jacked up input costs, you know, it's hurting people. And so there's a lot of folks that I go out and talk to, both Republican and Democrat, and they're saying the same thing. They're saying, I hate my party, but I hate my party a little less than the other party, right?

7:41Which tells me people are just disenfranchised with the system.

7:46Dan Osborn: You're like, I can work with that? Yeah, that's like my lane. Today on the show, for two decades, Nebraska has sent Republicans to the Senate. Meet the guy who thinks he can break the streak. I'm Mary Harris. You're listening to What Next. Stick around.

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11:01Dan Osborn: Can we talk about the independent thing a little bit? Like, I want to dig into it, because what happened in Nebraska was really interesting. You are running as an independent in the primary. There's also a Democrat in that race. But like as soon as she won, she dropped out to basically clear the field for you. So like even if you're not a Democrat, it really seems like Democrats are invested in you and this race. Your website specifically gives voters the option of donating through ActBlue. So you can see how it might be confusing, right? Yeah, I could definitely see that. And, you know, Cindy, who was running on the Democratic ticket, you know, you mentioned she she dropped out right away.

11:46She didn't. You know, a lot of polling came out that showed that she didn't have a chance to victory. So she stepped aside because we have the same thing in common. We want to get Pete Ricketts out of Nebraska politics because he's horrible.

11:59Dan Osborn: Did you have tough conversations with her about that? I didn't have any conversations with her. I, you know, I met her at an event in South Omaha and, you know, we shook hands and we exchanged pleasantries. And that was the extent of my interactions with her. But it was, I think, for her, I think it really was like Dan Osborne has the best chance of beating Pete Ricketts. And that's what the state of Nebraska needs. But you mentioned Act Blue as well. and that being a left-leaning entity, it's a place where people go that makes it easy to donate to campaigns. I notice you have another way to donate, too.

12:45Dan Osborn: Like, you can choose. Donate to ActBlue or something else. Yeah, there's multiple ways to donate. And what we're trying to do is create a coalition, a coalition of Democrats and Republicans and Libertarians and whatever party you belong to. Let's come together on the things that we agree on and stop fighting about the things that we know a lot of these entities are trying to keep us divided on. What's like a democratic position that you don't really truck with? Like something that you're like, eh, I'm more of an independent. The border. Kamala and Joe failed on the border. I think without a border, without a strong border, we don't have a country.

13:26So I'm not for open borders.

13:28Dan Osborn: But you've also called the border wall a symbol of racism, right? Yeah, I said that because, I mean, what I was talking about in that context, you know, they love to take my audio. And by the way, I've done 300 public events, so they have all kinds of audio that you just put out and try to take out of context. But you build a 30-foot wall, you know, they're just going to sell 31-foot ladders. And the fact that there's no wall being built with Canada, you know, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So I think the border wall just falls short. It's just a symbol at this point. So what would like strong immigration policy look like to you?

14:09A strong, well, immigration and border is different. I think it's the same coin, but it's opposite sides. But I think an immigration policy looks like bringing in American businesses, small businesses, as well as corporations. And also, it's about getting people in the right rooms, right? And so it's about bringing in advocates and judges and lawyers and all the people that have a stake in immigration, bringing them into the room and finding a common ground that we can have some meaningful immigration policy that works for American businesses, that doesn't undercut American workers, but also helps people that want to come here for a better life.

14:56That's the tradition of the United States of America. The fact that I'm 51 years old, 51 years young, I'll rephrase that. And there is we have not had any meaningful immigration reform in this country since I've been alive. Why?

15:17Dan Osborn: I mean, I agree with you. I just don't know if there's anyone across the aisle who wants to shake hands and do it. Yeah, that's that's where that's where I come in. That's where being an independent comes in. Right. I'm going to call it out. You've got to ask yourself again why. Who wants open borders? Who wants immigrants coming across using fake social security numbers to work? Well, it's companies like Tyson, right, that exploit the labor, pay them next to nothing. They enrich themselves. And, you know, they make billions. And they're the ones who donate to political campaigns. Like my opponent, P.

15:53Ricketts, has taken a bunch of money from Tyson. And they continue business as usual. So, like I said, we don't want to undercut American workers, but we want to advocate for the people that want to come here for a better life. And most people I talk to, the vast majority, they just want to see it done the right way. They just want to know our neighborhoods are going to be safe. And but people that want to come here to work can can do so.

16:21Dan Osborn: I feel like part of what is so appealing about you as a candidate is like you're a regular guy. Like I was watching your debate with Pete Ricketts and it was interesting to me because you were speaking like a regular person. and Pete Ricketts was speaking in soundbites, like kind of how I'm trained to hear people in a debate. But that's like how to cost like you've talked about how you had a pile of bills from your time campaigning in 2024, including huge vet bills for your dog. And then, you know, the other side of that is Fox News looked at FEC filings and found that, you know, you were paying money from your campaign directly to family members.

17:05Dan Osborn: Can we talk about that? Like, how do you talk about that with people? Yeah, no, it's easy. And I mean, because it's real, right? It's all real. Like being a regular person who lives paycheck to paycheck and then all of a sudden running for United States Senate, it is, I suppose, it is kind of a crazy story. And by the way, my dog is still alive. He's doing well. He's my little special needs guy. But the family part, so after the election in 2024, we lost, but we ran ahead of the top of the ticket by 14 points. You know, we got 47 % of the vote in Nebraska. So there was like, I understood that there's this like appetite or thirst for this brand of politics is to elevate regular working people.

17:55you know because I know from my world if you're not at the table you're on the menu. So I started Working Class Heroes which is designed to be a recruitment firm.

18:10Dan Osborn: You're sponsoring what like four or five candidates? Yeah yeah yeah Wisconsin, Washington State, Ohio, Alaska you know just to name a few. You know, we had an operating budget, and I think we spent a total of about$500 ,000 paying recruiters and, you know, all this other stuff. So Pete Ricketts saw that this recruitment working class heroes had had a budget of$500 ,000 raised and spent. You can't see where the money was allocated. So he just said, oh, well, Dan Osborne just gave it to himself and his family. Is that not true? No, it's completely untrue. Yeah, this was the budget. Is your wife not on the campaign's payroll at all?

18:59She was, yeah. And for working class heroes sake, she was doing the Nebraska recruitment. She quit her job as a restaurant manager and, you know, went and started recruiting throughout Nebraska for our state legislature. That was her role. And she wasn't paid any more than anyone else in that organization. So, yeah, they take the entire payroll and say that I just paid my family. But nothing could be further from the truth, Mary, because I've already lost a car. There's a good chance at the end of this that I'll lose my house. Like, that's the reality of working class people stepping up and trying to run for office.

19:49I don't have a law firm that I could step away from that's going to continue to funnel money into my bank account. I don't have health insurance. I don't have anything. And, you know, the fact that they're saying this, nothing can be further from the truth other than we're risking everything.

20:07Dan Osborn: So what some people have characterized as a cash grab, you look at it and you think like, at the end, I might not have my house. How is that worth it? How is that calculus worth it to you? Well, it's worth it to me because that's what I always did. You know, like on the strike at Kellogg's, 77 days, a lot of my workforce, my members, my brothers and sisters, they would go out and they would find other jobs, you know, temporary jobs with Omaha Steaks or whatever it is they were doing to pay their bills. I didn't have that luxury because I was working 14 to 16 hours a day just trying to keep the strike together.

20:45So I basically just sold all my worldly goods. And, you know, I got a job offer to go run a brewery, a maintenance crew at a brewery for 160 grand a year. It was more than I would ever have made. and, you know, I turned it down because I wasn't going to abandon my people at their greatest time of need. So for me, it's not about money. It's about the fact that I've had people in my life come and go and I hope that people who I've interacted with in my life, they're a little bit happier that I've been in their life than they were before and that makes me the richest man in the world.

21:32Dan Osborn: We'll be right back after a quick break.

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23:27Dan Osborn: I think there's a concern that even if you got elected, it will be very hard to get much done with Donald Trump in office. And so it kind of sets you up. You're talking a lot about affordability on the trail. And you're talking about your presence as being important. But I think the real question is, what can you do, first of all? And then also, how can you message what you're doing as you're doing it to your constituents so they stay with you, even if you can't actually pass your own version of whatever big bill you want? Yeah. And I think that's a lot of that is communication, right? It's about, you know, if I go to Washington, D.C.

24:11and I have an office there and I'm in the halls of the Senate and, you know, engaged in that power structure, it is about being transparent to the people of Nebraska. what's going on and how I'm taking votes and navigating those waters as an independent. It's about being transparent to just not Nebraska, but the American people in general, right? Because they're like, oh, well, you say you don't want to, you know, have a party boss and all these things. But, you know, when you get there, how are you actually going to do it? I put a lot of thought into this, and it really is about trying to do the right thing by people.

24:58Dan Osborn: What's the first bill you would want to do? First thing I want to do is start to amend the Big Beautiful Bill Act, and that's going to be the 45Z tax credit. And these aren't sexy things that you can run off of. What's the 45Z tax credit? Yeah, that's in the Big Beautiful Bill. What it does is essentially for every gallon of ethanol produced, and that's a biofuel, Nebraska's third in corn, the majority of our corn is grown for ethanol. One gallon and$1 tax credit for every gallon of ethanol goes to the actual CEOs of ethanol companies. Not a cent goes to the farmer or the growers. So I want to put an amendment on that 45Z tax credit that actually gives the farmers some money, too.

25:50But we live in this pay-to-play world where our politicians, you know, they're billionaires and they want to take care of their friends. And I want to take care of the people who actually do the work.

26:00Dan Osborn: But you'd have to convince a lot of people. A lot of people were pretty different from you to ride along with that. Yeah. Yeah, that is. And so it's going to be like, here's the thing. Dan Osborne got elected in Nebraska. Here's this independent that comes from, you know, the working class. The entire country is going to say, and I don't know if I can cuss on this. I'm not supposed to cuss anymore, but they're going to say I'm a sailor. So they're going to say, they're going to say, holy shit, did you see what Nebraska did? Right. They elected this shop floor mechanic that beat an incumbent billionaire.

26:35billionaire. And everybody's going to want to know how I did it. And I'm going to say, well, first of all, I'm not working for the corporations. I'm going to work for the people. And so in 2028 and beyond, that's how you win elections. Anybody taking money from special interests or corporations aren't going to win elections. That's my, I suppose I have a dream speech at this point, but that's how we do it. And that's how I'm going to be effective as a legislator too is, you know, the big, beautiful bill out going back to that, that was passed by a tiebreaker by J.D. Vance. He came down as vice president.

27:10The Senate was split and he passed it. If I would have beat Deb Fisher in 2024, I would have never passed that garbage legislation that takes people's health care away while giving tax cuts to the, you know, the uber rich. So that's leverage. And that's the leverage that I plan to use to deliver for the American people and Nebraska. Yeah.

27:33Dan Osborn: I mean, people are mad about the economy. How do you turn that anger into an open conversation with someone in your state who has voted straight Republican on the ballot for years? Yeah. Well, you go to their house, you go to their main street, you go. What happens when you pop up there? Yeah. When I pop up there, people show up. And, you know, there's been a lot of people that show up in in MAGA hats there's a lot of libertarians there's a lot of people throughout Nebraska that that show up to my events you know in towns of a thousand people we'll get a hundred people we get 10 of the towns but some people would say recently you kind of put your foot in your mouth in this regard because this audio leaked of you talking about Trump and really colorful language you specifically talk about a town called Red Cloud which is rural Nebraska basically saying you know Billy Bob and fucking Red Cloud who lives next door to the Trump store he's just he just all he knows is he's like on the winning team it's it's really that simple it is and Trump and that is why he's been so effective he's been so effective at taking Billy Bob and his wife Mary Jane or Mary Joe telling them look we're winning you're on the winning team and that's all they care about because their lives probably suck and what you said is like the trump voters their lives suck and later i know you said yeah my life sucks yeah and that's where that came from and and there's a thing called accountability like that's how we raise our kids right that's how i raise my kid that for every action there's a positive or negative reaction and so i went out to red cloud uh shortly after that and i did a town hall and there was probably 70 some people there uh in a in a very small town it sounded like it was pretty mild it was reports it was because actually at the end of the day the people of red cloud were like you know yeah yeah you know we were offended at first but really it's you know it's it's it's very small but when you have an opponent uh like p ricketts that spends he spent $40 million in this race already.

29:50And I don't know how much he spent behind that audio, probably 20 million of that. You, you can take a molehill and turn it into a mountain. Uh, but the actual people of Red Cloud, I went, I did a main street walk. I went to the museums. I talked to, and then I did the town hall and everybody was like, I, uh, you know, We weren't really that offended by your words. I shouldn't have said what I said in the next edit. Yeah. I think people are hyper aware and sensitive to the potential to be lied to by a candidate.

30:36Dan Osborn: Do you know what I mean?

30:40Dan Osborn: And I know that I'm having this conversation in the world of Donald Trump, right, where, say what you will, there's a lot of corruption there being done in the open, right? But if you look at, for instance, the Wall Street Journal, they look at this comment. They say it's the latest example of liabilities in the Democratic Party. You know, in some part, they actually hang it on consultants who have worked with candidates like you. Like you early on worked with the same consultants who worked with Graham Plattner in Maine. There was a claim that they discovered you. Is that a fair characterization of your relationship?

31:19I mean, yeah, no. I was recruited by a group of railroaders in central Nebraska and the largest rail yard in the world in North Platte, Nebraska. and they were upset at my past opponent, Deb Fisher, and the way she votes on rail, always putting profit before people. There's a train derailment. You ask it every seven days. There's a train derailment in the United States every day. And, you know, these guys working on the rail, they don't feel safe. And Deb Fisher takes money from Class 1 railroads, so does Pete Ricketts, but they won't pass the Rail Safety Act to protect these guys. uh, in their, in their work environment.

32:06So they asked me to run for a U S Senate. And, uh, first I told him to get the hell out of my driveway cause you guys are crazy. But then, you know, once I realized like, there's an opportunity here to actually stand up for workers like I've always done. So that's, uh, why I'm here talking to you right now. Yeah. Can we be real about if you won, how diverse the anti-Trump coalition would be in Washington and what that means for that coalition's success or failure?

32:40Dan Osborn: Like, I think about what might happen in November. If you won, you'd be an independent. I think a lot of Democrats look at that and think, huh, are we going to have another John Fetterman situation on our hands? A situation with someone who could make themselves a thorn in our side intentionally. Intentionally. What do you say to them? Well, I would say that there's nothing intentional here. It's the way I see it is, you know, throughout time, you've had this pendulum, right? It goes all the way to the left. It goes all the way to the right. But it never seems to stop in the middle. And the majority of folks that I talk to, you know, their politics aren't in the end zone.

33:36They're within the 40-yard lines, whether you fall off to the left or to the right. And that's where I'm at too, right? It's we have to stop this polarization of it's red team versus blue team. It's left versus right, all of these things. We have to stop in the middle and we have to start looking up at who's actually trying to divide us. So for me, it's not about party. It's not about party leaders. It's not about what the party can do. It's about people.

34:12Dan Osborn: It's so interesting you say that because I just interviewed Angie Nixon the other day. I think she used that exact same language. Like, don't look to the sides. You can look it up. I think maybe I was saying it first. I don't know. I'm saying it first. Nobody says it better than me. No, I'm not saying anyone's saying it first. I'm not saying anyone's copying each other. What I'm saying is more like it's interesting because I think you guys are really different. Oh, interesting. And you're representing really different points of view and really different states. She's in Florida. She's running to try to be the senator from Florida.

34:46Dan Osborn: You're in Nebraska. I find it just fascinating that you're using the same language. No alligators in Nebraska. Last time I checked it out. Really, that's what it's about because you look at our politics and it's the money interests, right? That's who's controlling it. And if you want to continue to work in Washington, D.C., it's the money interests that are funding campaigns. So it's like if you're an elected official, you have to continue to do the bidding of these money interests if you want to work. And so whether it's data centers or AI or anything else, you're not going to do the right thing by people.

35:31you're going to do the right, you're going to do the thing by money. And that's not what I'm interested in doing. I'm interested in doing the right thing. So when it comes to data centers and the fact that they're using a tremendous amount of power and they're using our resources like water, we got to put guardrails on that. And AI, we got to put guardrails on that. And like the list goes on and on, whether you're talking about the war in Iran or AIPAC or any of that stuff, I have no interest in that. I don't want their money. I don't want to do their bidding. I want to do what's right. For Nebraskans and the people of America, it's really that simple.

36:08And hopefully that message is resonating with enough candidates throughout the country that we're all going to just try to do the right thing and not what's right by defense contractors, right?

36:23Dan Osborn: Dan, I'm really grateful for your time. Thanks for giving me a little extra too. Yeah, thank you. Appreciate you. Dan Osborne is running for Senate in Nebraska. And that's our show. What Next is produced by Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharm, and Patrick Fort. Paige Osborne is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Mia Lobel is the executive producer of podcast here at Slate. Ben Richmond is the senior director of podcast operations. And I'm Mary Harris. Go track me down on Blue Sky. I'm Matt Mary Harris. Thanks for listening. Catch you back here next time.

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