The Knockdown Dragout Fight for Max Miller's House Seat

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1:54I wanted to speak with Brian Poindexter, a Democrat who is running for Congress in Ohio, because if you want to understand the optimism some Democrats are feeling right now, his campaign is a pretty good place to start. First things first, there is the candidate himself. Brian is an iron worker, union guy. He likes to say he built the wooden lectern he used to launch his campaign. He's also got political experience. He served as a city councilman. Then there's Brian's opponent, Trump favorite Max Miller, who this summer began to face one horrific headline after another. Allegations of abuse from his ex-wife.

2:37Allegations that were backed up by her father, one of Ohio's sitting Republican senators.

2:48Before all this, Brian was a long shot in his deep red Ohio district. TV ads were a luxury he couldn't really afford. But now things are pretty different.

2:58Brian Poindexter: With the way things are going, I don't think working people like you and me are going to hold on much longer. How many ads have you done now? Yeah, we've done a couple and there may be a couple more. Do you like doing them? Like I was reading that you told a crowd in Medina that going on TV is kind of a nightmare. It is. It's something that I had to learn to do. You know, I've always been a behind the scenes kind of guy, you know, just going to work, you know, providing for my family. Yeah. A lot of your ads feature you shimmying up a beam because you've been an iron worker for so long. I don't want to correct you, but when it's standing vertically, it's a column, but it's still an I-beam just vertically.

3:38I guess, yeah, beam is, yeah, beam is horizontal. Mark. Our dad, Brian Poindexter, has been working since he was 15. Brian's first ad featured his daughters. And he always shows up for family dinner, for our games, to help with homework, even when he's not helpful. It was sweet. Also, a not-so-subtle reminder that Brian Poindexter's family seems to like him. I run the jail in Ohio's fourth-largest county and know what the worst of the worst looks like. In recent days, Brian's ads have gotten more pointed. And with suspicious bruising, 34 years in law enforcement tells me Max Miller does not belong in power.

4:20He just released an ad which features a sheriff basically talking about these allegations against Max Miller. Max Miller sent cease and desist letters. He tried to prevent this ad from airing. But it sounds like the local TV stations were like, yeah, we're just we're going to air it. Yeah.

4:36Brian Poindexter: I mean, he's he's doing what he's done his entire life. If you throw, you know, throw money at a problem, you know, hire fancy lawyers to to hide the hide the truth about the incidences that he's, you know, been wrapped up in. And this is just another example of that. He doesn't want people to find out the facts about him. And the facts are that, you know, he's been credibly accused by three different women, Republican women, both United States senators from Ohio, has said he's unfit to serve. And the people who know him best say they hold their breath whenever his daughter's in his custody. I mean, I don't think that's somebody that Ohio seven wants representing them.

5:12Brian Poindexter: And it's certainly not somebody I want representing me. It strikes me there's a whole lot of finger pointing going on in your race, but I'm not sure there's a whole lot of like regular degular politics happening. Like, are you and Max Miller going to do a debate anytime soon where people could just come and see you talk about the issues theoretically? Well, I mean, that would be that would be a surprise to see Max Miller out in public. He hasn't been in public for quite some time. You know, when there's a community event, he'll typically show up before the event, before anyone gets there, take a few pictures and say, oh, I was at this great event.

5:45Brian Poindexter: But he wasn't there. You know, he he doesn't want to be seen in public. And, you know, so no debate. I'm doing campaign stuff. You know, I'm doing candidate forums. I'm doing meet and greets. I'm doing. Do you want to debate? I'd be open to it. You know, I I I challenge, you know, I basically said I'm open to a debate anytime early in the cycle. And here we are with 39 days left. I don't know if there's room in the schedule for him to make time to come see his constituents in person. But yeah, I mean, I'm open to a debate. I think the issues are - I appreciate your side eye there, the way you said that.

6:23It's skilled, I will say.

6:25Brian Poindexter: It's natural.

6:29Today on the show, can Brian Poindexter introduce himself to enough voters to really have a shot in deep red Ohio. I'm Mary Harris. You're listening to What Next. Stick around.

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8:56So there have been allegations of bad behavior against your opponent, Max Miller, for a very long time. As you've said, they really popped off this summer when some documents came out from his divorce that laid bare sort of some really bad things that may have happened. And they sort of added to a pile of allegations that had been there since, say 2021 against him. And so I'm kind of curious, did you see a vulnerable person here? Is that why you decided to run in this race?

9:32Brian Poindexter: No, I, no, I, um, I mean, I was aware of his allegations, you know, stemming back from, um, you know, uh, Stephanie Grisham and even before that, before I got in the race with him, who said that he was abusive. Yeah. Um, but you know, I, I got into this race because I see the working families, you know, myself, my friends, my family, people in my community, doing everything right and just falling further behind. That's why I got in the race because, you know, I feel that working people are the most underrepresented demographic in Congress. That's why you see policies like, you know, the blanket tariffs that are really making it hard on working families and it's benefiting corporations and the wealthy.

10:11Brian Poindexter: You see the tax cuts from the one big, beautiful bill that was one of the largest transfers of wealth from the bottom to the top. You see the support for the war in Iran that's driving up costs on families. And it's because you don't have that person in Congress speaking up to how that affects working people. But I feel like you've been on a political journey yourself. Like you've said you leaned Republican early on and you had this kind of come to Jesus. What was that? Because when you're talking to voters, I would, I would argue Ohio is a red state now. So you are speaking to people who may not think you as a Democrat have much to say to them.

10:50Yeah.

10:50Brian Poindexter: When I, and when I was a younger person, especially young adult, yeah, I, I, I voted Republican. I voted for George W. twice, uh, uh, voted for McCain. Um, you know, when he ran for president, I, I really have, I still have a lot of respect for John McCain and his service. But, you know, I believed in the, you know, Republicans always say, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. And then I, as I got older and more lived experience and realized that I am trying to pull myself up by bootstraps at every opportunity, but it was just, it was just talking points for them. It wasn't backed up by any, any tangible legislation or policy that would help working people.

11:30Brian Poindexter: And, and that, that's kind of where I kind of started transitioning over to a Democrat, you know, come to Obama second term. I voted for Obama and pretty much been a Democrat since. Was that hard? Did they feel like you were like swallowing something? No, it was it was really just kind of like the natural order of things. I, you know, I seen the policies on the Democratic side that, oh, man, they want to they want to try to fight for better wages for working people. They want to they want to fight for unions. They want to fight for quality, affordable health care. They want to shore up retirement.

12:02Brian Poindexter: So those are all the things that we work for. And to me, it was a natural transition. I kind of had to, it was kind of a metamorphosis that was happening over time in real time back then. I think of your campaign as interesting to look at because it's indicative of a lot of problems that are haunting politics right now. Like Max Miller, your opponent, his implosion has enabled you to do a lot financially. Like the Democratic Party switched how they saw your race. They sort of juiced you with support. But some might say like, why'd they wait? Why weren't they doing that before? Well, I'm sure they asked themselves the same question, the same questions that voters asked.

12:50Brian Poindexter: like there's two questions they ask one why should we fire the person in there now right and uh and we know the reasons not not only his personal life you know he supported all the initiatives that have got us to this point you know the the war in iran the one big beautiful bill that's going to take a trillion dollars out of health care system um you know the tariffs uh and all those things that have driven costs so that's we know why to fire max miller why hire brian Poindexter. So if I didn't bring anything to the table, nobody would support me. Nobody would get behind me. Nobody would vote for me.

13:22Brian Poindexter: But I'm bringing the perspective of the average everyday worker. When I go to Congress and I look at a bill or a piece of legislation or a policy, I'm going to be looking at it through the lens of a working person, the average person in our district. How is this going to affect them? And that is where I think we have the most strength. But it's hard to maintain that. This is the other thing I see with your campaign, which is like you talk in your campaign a lot about like, you know, getting money out of politics, no PACs, but your campaign, you know, you were supported by an AI affiliated PAC.

13:54And a lot of members of Congress have talked about like, it is difficult to run without a lot of money. And so to me, it's like a really good summary of like where we are, which is like someone like you, you're saying you want money out of politics in order to get into politics. You need the money. the money is coming from a PAC. Can you explain that to people who may see a disconnect there?

14:15Brian Poindexter: Well, I've never taken any money from any super PAC. I've never taken any money. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's what they call an independent expenditure. I cannot tell them to stop. I cannot tell them to send it. I cannot tell them to make an ad for me. I cannot tell them what to put in the ad for me. They chose to do that on their own and I am not beholden to them. But, you know, the other side of it, though, too, is, you know, we can fight for the world we want to live in while living in it as it exists. If I, you know, if, if I didn't take, uh, like, um, union PAC money, for example, um, I would, I would be, I would be, I'd have no chance.

14:52Brian Poindexter: Let's, let's, let's be frank about it. Um, I don't take corporate PAC money. I don't take, uh, dark money or, uh, special interest money. I, I take, um, you know, grass, grassroots fundraising is, is the lifeblood of our campaign. Um, you know, I, I am supported by unions because I'm a union member and I'm going to fight hard to make sure people can join a union if they want. But I also, too, you know, I'm not beholden to any of them. So I'll be confident in going to Congress and voting to ban dark money, banning to overturn Citizens United, banning to, you know, voting to make sure we ban members of Congress from trading stocks.

15:27Brian Poindexter: I don't trade stocks. My opponent does. He traded over a million dollars in stocks just as a member of Congress. So in a state as red as Ohio, I think a problem for you to overcome is name recognition, coupled with this feeling of like, why should I vote for a Democrat? You know, like in August, the Ohio Capitol Journal did an article where they talked to voters in your district. They talked to you. They really like laid out the race, I thought, really well. And they they really spent some time with a couple of voters, you know, including this woman, Eileen Velasquez. she relies on food stamps and she just felt so despairing about politicians in general.

16:06And she didn't know who you are. And I was like, this is exactly the kind of person you want to reach. But your challenge is actually reaching this person.

16:15Brian Poindexter: Yeah. How do you reach them? Well, I want to start by saying, you know, Ohio is red lately. Right. Ohio has always been a bellwether state can go, it goes with the tide of the times. You know, like my district, for example, Donald Trump won by 11 points, but Sherrod Brown would have won this district in 2018, right? And it's whoever can most represent the issues facing working families. My district, you know, very gerrymandered, very diverse. But the one thing that unites everybody in the district is everybody works hard for a living. Now, to the second point, how do I reach that person? That that is, that is campaigning in itself, right?

16:57Brian Poindexter: That's exactly what we have to do. We have to get out that. And I do that by going to, but that's easy in like an urban environment, right? I feel like you're not, you're, you're, you got some Cleveland in there, but like you're, you have a lot of space to cover. Basically. We actually don't have any of Cleveland proper. We have the Western and Southern suburbs of Cleveland. And then that's, that's the Cuyahoga County portion. And then we have all of Medina County, all of Ashton County and the North half of Wayne County. Um, but yeah, it is very spread out. Um, but you know, we, luckily we have, um, over 900 volunteers who are willing to help out and knock doors.

17:30Brian Poindexter: We're averaging over, um, almost 4 ,000 doors a week, uh, canvassing, you know, that's why I'm at every event I could possibly go to, uh, you know, pretty much hit all the, all the parades in the district, uh, during parade season. Um, you know, I've hit all the County fairs. I'm hitting Ashton County tonight. I said earlier. And, um, you know, that's, that's how I can do it. And can I reach everybody? No, it's humanly impossible, but we can do everything we can to make sure that we engage with voters. And I'm not, I'm not only engaging in, um, you know, people like her, I I'm even engaging with Republican voters, meeting them where they are.

18:05Brian Poindexter: Tell me about those conversations. Oh, well, you know, the average Republican, um, in the district is having the same issues that the average Democrat in the district is having. The cost of living is number one, top of mind. You You know, we see gas prices, you know, approaching$5 a gallon. That's hurting everybody. It's nonpartisan, the effects of this economy and effects of the erratic war in Iran that's raising prices. And we're finding common ground on the issues that affect us all. And that's what I set out to do is fight for, you know, better wages so we can afford the ebbs and flows of the economy.

18:43Brian Poindexter: You know, fighting for quality, affordable health care. You know, again, my opponent voted to rip a trillion dollars out of health care. That that cut, you know, I'm not on Medicaid, but the Medicaid cuts are going to affect me because my local hospital provides services that's funded in part by Medicaid. And, you know, especially in the rural parts of the district, you lose that funding. They might lose that service. Now you've got to drive in farther. And then and then the third leg is retiring with dignity. Right. Social security is on the brink of collapse. And Medina County, for example, a third of Medina County's income is social security income.

19:23Brian Poindexter: And if we were to cut that, I mean, that's going to be detrimental to the services and standard of living for people in Medina. So we got to do whatever we can. Do people ever say like, that sounds like spending a lot of money? What do you mean? Well, everything you've just laid out there sounds really expensive. and like we have massive like debt issues right now. Yeah, but none of that is, none of that is, is, you know, government driven. It's putting policies in place that, you know, employers can provide this. We know they can provide this stuff because we've seen it. And like, I grew up in the 80s, for example.

20:01In the 80s, you know, there was a stronger union presence

20:05Brian Poindexter: and even non-union employers paid livable wages. The wages were up with the cost of living. People didn't have to worry about their social security. We're not, we had pensions. We had good quality healthcare and, you know, and, and we can get it back. And it's, it's, it's, it's by strengthening collective bargaining, right? So people can join unions freely without pressure from their employers. It's, it's about, you know, restoring the cuts that were made to the, to the ACA and to Medicaid. You know, those are things that we've already done and already had in place. And to me, it makes sense. It's an investment in our population rather than just investing in the corporations who are perpetually driving this.

20:50We'll be right back after a quick break.

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22:14Hi, this is Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman. I've been writing about food and restaurants for almost 50 years, my whole career really. And what I know is that the good restaurants all have something in common. They're busy. Genuinely, chaotically busy. And somehow, in the last few years, the best of them have begun to make it look easy. And do you know why? Because they're running on Toast's technology. Toast is built for restaurant owners who understand that Toast's tools keep the line moving and keep their customers happy, with fewer mistakes and hiccups in ordering and paying.

22:53For owners, that turns busy into business. To learn more, head to toasttab.com. That's T-O-A-S-T-T-A-B, toasttab.com. Toast, built for busy.

23:11I think about your race as one of the messiest out there because of Max Miller, for sure, your opponent, but also because of stuff that Max Miller is making sure is out there about you. And this is the part where we have to talk about the stuff you probably don't want to talk about. I'm an open book. I'm an open book. I don't care. So what has been put out about you is about how when you were younger, a teenager, you were arrested and allegedly tried to swallow some crack cocaine. Do you want to talk about that? What's true there? What isn't happy to talk about it.

23:49Brian Poindexter: I, and here are the facts. Fact number one, I've never touched hard drugs in my life. You know, uh, that I say that unequivocally, absolutely never touched hard drugs in my life too. Um, I don't know why the officer wrote the report that way. Uh, it was, I'm not saying he was lying. What I'm saying is he was mistaken and what he saw. And, you know, I was never charged. And third, I've been a union iron worker for 20 years. I've taken random drug tests. I've taken annual drug tests multiple times a year and have never failed a single one. Well, and we should be clear that Mother Jones uncovered toxicology reports showing your opponent, Max Miller, once crashed his car while under the influence of MDMA.

24:30Brian Poindexter: So no one hears. And he actually was on an interview with Jake Tapper saying he couldn't remember the last time he took hard drugs. And I've never touch harder. I smoked a little marijuana when I was younger. Haven't smoked marijuana in over 25 years, by the way. Um, you know, I, and, and I've been open about my past. I've gotten some fights. I gotten some traffic tickets. Can we talk about the fight? The fight, the fight, the fight is the thing that, so this is, um, been reported as a fight, a Cleveland Indians game. And this is when you were older. You were like 34, I think. And the, the details, I didn't, I didn't get in any fight.

25:05Brian Poindexter: I was never arrested. I was never charged. I, you know, no. Well, the Washington free beacon tracked down a guy who said he like dared you to eat a hot dog and you slapped him. And he, that article said, I swallowed a hot dog hole without, without chewing. It did. And then it said this guy wanted you to do it on video for him. There's a lot going on here. I will say it's, it's, it's, it's complete nonsense. It's, it's, it's, it's crazy. And, and it's all, it's, it's all designed to distract from the fact that my opponent has been accused credibly by three different women of domestic violence, including holding a gun to his wife's head.

25:38Brian Poindexter: And it's to distract from the fact that two sitting Republicans have said that he's unfit for office. And one, one of whom holds his breath every time his granddaughter is in his, his father's custody. I mean, that. Well, to be real, like if I'm a voter in Ohio, I might feel like it's a gamble, right? Like I, about your temperament, right? I'd not sure if I've heard if I've just heard the word cloud of things, you know, drug allegation, you know, fight at a baseball game, I just might be like, I don't know, should I take a risk here? And here's the thing, here's the thing. I have a record of nine years on Brook Park City Council where my temperament has been front and center for the public.

26:24Brian Poindexter: You know, I've been in the public eye on a more local level, which local politics is more personal. People get to know you better. And the people at Brook Park know who I am. They know what I stand for. They know what I fight for. And they know me as a family man. Strong in family values. I believe that I raised my daughters up to be good human beings and to be hardworking people and caring people. And that's what people know about me. They know that I'm a hard worker. They know that I stand up for my family and I stand up for my community. And that's, you know, that's what people shouldn't take away from all this.

27:03Your race is getting down to the wire. And I think the latest polling shows you're eight points ahead. Do you feel safe, good, strong? Like, how are you feeling now as a candidate?

27:18Brian Poindexter: I'm cautiously optimistic. I see the polling that everyone else sees. Yeah, we have momentum and we have a great team and we have a lot of volunteers. Polling looks good, but we're not taking anything for granted. I got to make sure people know who I am because, you know. It seems like a hard job. It's like you have to get out there. You have to be like, here's who I am. You have to then convince them to vote for you and maybe against their like natural instinct, right, of like pulling the lever for the GOP. Well, I mean, like, again, they've already answered question number one. You know, why should we fire Max Miller?

27:51Brian Poindexter: so there you know people are more open to giving me the opportunity because because they know that he's terrible not just in his personal life in his in his public life too he's been he's been erratic i mean he's had his word stricken from the record of congress because of outrageous outbursts i've never had my word stricken from a city council meeting i've never been i've never been pulled out of a city event because i i was intoxicated you know like my opponent has you know and, you know, people see that. So they know why to fire him. So they're giving me the opportunity to answer question number two.

28:23Brian Poindexter: And that's what I hope to do in the campaign is answer that question for them that I am the person that they should hire because I will represent their interests. Yeah, the New York Times did this article where they lash you together with a couple of other candidates in other places, like one in Colorado. The idea like these are unconventional candidates, right? Often younger. Do you see yourself as like lashed together with anyone else who's out there now in the ecosystem? Um, no, I mean, I, I've met other candidates along the way, you know, like Sam Forstag in, uh, in, uh, Montana and, uh, Bob Brooks in Pennsylvania.

28:56Brian Poindexter: And yeah, we, we have very similar backstories that being that we're all like hard blue collar workers. Do you have a group chat? I do. I, I chat, chat with them here and there, but no, no group chat. Um, but, uh, but no, I like, you know, and, and being, you know, being a worker running for Congress is out of the norm for me and it's, it's out of the norm for them too. So like, you know, we'll touch base here and there to say, Hey man, what, how are you doing? How are you holding up? And anything that I can help you with or anything you can help me with. And, you know, we kind of just are more of a, like kind of a support group for each other in that way.

29:32Brian Poindexter: But, um, but no, I like, I'm running my own race. Um, I wish them all the luck in the world. I think we need more, uh, worker representation in Congress. Like again, it's, it, we're the most underrepresented demographic in Congress and, uh, and you know, I hope they're successful in their race, but most importantly, I'm, I hope I'm successful in this race. Is there a story you'd tell people like when you're, when you're like about a voter you've met or about like, um, something you just keep a touchstone as you're out there campaigning? Yeah. Uh, I mean, I, there, there's several stories that I can tell, but, uh, one that I always kind of go back to is, is something that happened early on when I was canvassing for the first time.

30:12Brian Poindexter: You know, I was, I had a list. It was, it was pre-primary. So I was knocking on Democrat doors to try to win the primary. But there was a guy moving some stuff into his house who wasn't on my list. And I could tell by what he was wearing. He had a 1776 shirt on with the blacked out flag on the sleeve. I said, Hey, I'm, I'm Brian Pointer. I'm running for Congress. I'm in the neighborhood. Thought I'd introduce myself. So he's like, he folded his arms. Like, are you Democrat or Republican? And I was like, I'm a Democrat. And he scoffs and kind of starts walking away. I'm like, hey, give me a second.

30:42Brian Poindexter: I'm the old school Democrat. I believe in fighting for workers. I believe in trying to bring people together. You know, I'm a union iron worker for 20 years. He's like, oh, my buddy who's helping me is a union electrician. And I said, so he knows what I'm talking about and he knows what I'm fighting for. And he gave me the opportunity to talk to him. And after that, you know, we had about a five, 10 minute conversation. At the end of it, he was like, you know what? I'm gonna vote for you. And that told me right then and there, that we were doing the right thing and that we have an opportunity to bring people together.

31:11Brian Poindexter: And make no mistake, our country is in disarray. We are having a hard time right now. And the only way we're going to fix it is if we come together as a community again. And we're seeing that in this campaign. Yeah, good luck. I'm really grateful to have you on the show. Thank you. No, happy to be here. Brian Boyndexter is running for Congress in Ohio's 7th District. And that's our show. What Next is produced by Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharm, and Patrick Fort. Paige Osborne is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Mila Bell is the executive producer of podcast here at Slate.

31:51Ben Richmond is the senior director of podcast operations. And I'm Mary Harris. Go track me down in blue sky. I'm Matt Mary Harris. Thanks for listening. Catch you back here next time.

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