Beyond Manual Dispatch & Predictive Safety

0:29This podcast features Michael Vincent and Hayden Cardiff and Chris Hines and Malcolm Harris.

0:31Malcolm Harris: Ladies and gentlemen, oh my goodness, I am here with my brother in person. Welcome to the Enterprise Fleet Summit edition of What the Truck out of Dallas, Texas. Michael Vincent, where are we, brother? We're actually in Alliance, just north of Fort Worth, bro. Just north of Fort Worth. Texas looks good on you, bro. I think so, too. You look fantastic, my friend. I feel great. Do you? Yeah, it's an awesome time. I've had great shout-out to PCS. Yeah, yeah. They were fantastic here out in Texas. And I was like, you know what? I should do a show. And it makes a lot of sense. It makes a ton of sense.

1:07I mean, it makes no sense not to do a show today.

1:10Malcolm Harris: No, no. I was like, you know what? We got some big things. And of course, for those that do not know, again, we are live from the Freight Waves Enterprise Fleet Summit. So put this in perspective, guys. This is, of course, operations at scale, a comprehensive online event designed for enterprise trucking fleet managers. all right you got executives professionals talking about this business cycle fluctuating capacity and much more so this summit's going to provide the what's what for the who's who's the how's how's and the wise ones that's crazy yeah i love it just like i didn't know we were doing a special event yeah absolutely from what to truck west at 146 media studios 146 this is beautiful by the way is it great this is absolutely gorgeous you love it i am in love with it this is really nice you You get to take home that Spartan armor.

1:53I'm going to be ready.

1:54Malcolm Harris: Put it on top. Put it on top. I'll tell you what's goofy about this. What's that? Look at this setup. Okay. You are not smaller than me. But I look at it. But I noticed that as well. I was like, wow, I see this. Makes me look like a giant. And I was like, okay. And I don't know why. I was like, okay. This is good, though. We got two great guests for you guys today for the Enterprise Fleet Summit. I want to take you guys to them right now. Looking at On Deck. First up is going to be Chris Hines. He is the CEO of Repower, nearly 40 years in transportation and tech, including 17 at GE Capital and much more.

2:30Malcolm Harris: He is running a huge operation at Repower, and he's joining us to break down TOP, which is Repower's trailer optimization platform, the industry's first system built to actually execute trailer repositioning instead of just analyzing it. So we're going to get into that. And he's going to talk about his time and much more. I'm excited to speak with him. And then also turning idle trailers into real revenue instead of just dead weight. So this is going to be a good one. That's great. Yeah, Chris. Chris is a dog. But to end the show, we're going to have Hayden Cardiff. He is a VP of Safety Solutions at Descartes joining us to break down the gap between compliance and actual safety.

3:08Malcolm Harris: So a clean CSA score and a stack of past audits don't just guarantee, again, a fleet, which is just sitting when it comes to real crash risk. All right. So we're going to dig into predicting risky behavior that comes before crash and then coaching drivers without turning this actually into something that is leading. Right. And talking fleets that aren't just measuring up to those that are still in play. All right. So between Hayden as well as Chris, it is going to be a fantastic show, but we couldn't do it without our sponsors, our special sponsors of the Enterprise Fleet Summit. All right. We got special.

3:43Malcolm Harris: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, all our sponsors are special. Look at this right here, guys. Our regional sponsor is going to be none other than Trimble as well as Freight Waves. Freight Waves Health. Yes. Do I know Freight Waves Health? No, but you're going to find out, buddy, because it is a new thing and it is a fantastic. shout out to craig fuller shout out to suzy and the rest of the team at freight waves for rolling this out uh as well as uh jk this is fantastic stuff but yeah shout out to our regional sponsor trimble and then our demo sponsor of course is going to be map up and solera all right they are fantastic and then we can't do it without the content i skipped the line we're gonna have truckstop.com carrier one repower and no dwell i was gonna say what's up with those yeah they They're fantastic.

4:27Malcolm Harris: They are great. They are doing what they have to do. And we're just really appreciative of the things that you guys have done for us today here at the Enterprise. That's a heck of a list right now. Oh, that is a lineup if I have ever seen it. It makes us look like we're actually important. I believe so. I think we're kind of important. These guys think so. I mean, they think so. I think they're important, and I appreciate them. I'm glad to see Dad, you know, Freightways, putting down some sponsorship. I couldn't agree with that. we got some events happening we got some events happening in about a month's time we do yeah we got two events f3 f3 the future of freight festival is going to be here before you know it october 27th and 28th tickets are on sale right now for those that are interested again you do have a promo code that you can use it is take 20 for those that still have some interest in being in the building at f3 you should be there you were just in chattanooga i was just literally yesterday look at that screen yes less than 24 hours ago i was back in chat how did it feel to be back in the city of f3 um you know it's interesting it felt like i was visiting a place now sounds like it feels like home right but i was like well wait a minute that's where i got married that's where i met melissa that's where we did yeah from my hotel room that's freight waves right over there yeah it was it was excellent man uh shout out to freedom sings usa.org they uh right country music uh some pretty fun dude i met don gordon right so these are the these are the quality people that are doing this stuff don don goodman sorry who who uh he wrote for conway twitty okay and loretta lynn nice and blake shelton nice and a bunch of others uh number like of cut like more than two hands worth of counting number one hits on his resume of writing.

6:19They write songs for veterans. They have cold classes, these songwriting classes with veterans to help them cope with the emotions and everything that they did and bring that stuff out. It's a fantastic job that they did. They did a concert jam and scramble tournament up at Signal Mountain. It was fantastic.

6:37Malcolm Harris: Guys do great work. It's awesome. Well, I hate that I missed you in Chattanooga, so that's how I... I know. It's like I'm coming to Chattanooga to see you. I'm coming to Texas to see you. in the context of c so we didn't we didn't time it right but we timed it right we did we got it right yeah we got it right should have seen a man's scramble right before i love it uh also the day before i want to make you guys aware of the brokerage compliance symposium all right so for those that are going to be in the space there's 100 brokers one day every compliance issue your business is facing fraud exposure carrier liability fmcsa rules cargo theft insurance gaps they are being addressed by attorneys and operators who have actually lived through this all right so you can register for this event right now.

7:14Malcolm Harris: It's going to be at the Signal. Again, 100 seats. This is going to be an exclusive event. For those in the space, take advantage of this one. This is going to be a real highlight. All right. You can see the week at the glance as well. You're going to have the F3 award dinners. All right. You're going to have, of course, the Future Freights Festival. We've talked about it. We have a three-day slate here, ladies and gentlemen. This is going to be fantastic. All right. One of, if not the biggest event of the year, Chattanooga, Tennessee. I could not be happy. Something for the whole family. Oh, yeah, man.

7:49Malcolm Harris: The whole kit and caboodle. Is that what they say? Something for us, too. Yeah. Take 20. Come on, now. You take that 20 and meet us over at Chattanooga Whiskey. Hey, listen. We do have a prize that we are giving away, and I want some additional details about this. Yes, we do have a prize. I want to see this backpack real quick. All right. This is an Away Travel Convertible Backpack. All right. Details are going to be shared about this throughout the day of the summit. But I just want to make everybody aware that this backpack is fantastic. All right. You can put multiple things in it. You got the space.

8:23Malcolm Harris: You got the straps. You got the zippers. And look at that top compartment right there. I feel like I'm on the prices right right now because I'm describing an actual backpack to the best of my abilities. But it's a pretty sweet backpack. You're like, what's your name? Diane Parkinson? 100%. 100%. So it is going to be in this beautiful color right here. That green. You know, I have a thing for green. You can tell by the color. I know. I get it, man. I get it. You're a green kind of guy. We will have details on this throughout the summit, but excited to bring this to you guys. So again, thank you so much for Away Travel, for being able to provide that backpack for us.

9:01Malcolm Harris: And with that being said, let's get to the things that matter. because I teed him up earlier. I thought that mattered a lot. That does matter, but the people want to hear, not from us. Oh, they don't want to hear from us. They don't? Not really. Well, I don't know. I mean, sometimes they do. The mom's out to my mom. There you go. Yeah, she loves Michael Vincent and Malcolm Harris. She digs it, hey? But, uh... How could nobody like him? No. How could anybody not like Malcolm? He's such a great guy. This is a great guy coming up. He is the CEO of Repower, and I want to welcome him right now to the Enterprise Fleet Summit.

9:34Again, this is Mr.

9:36Malcolm Harris: Chris Hines. Chris, welcome to the show. It is so good to see you. Looking good, brother. Man, it is tough to follow a backpack story. I mean, come on. Let's keep following the animal group, right? You never follow animals, kids, or backpacks. I was like, what does this thing do? Turn into like a glamping tent or what is it here, man? This thing is fantastic. I kept waiting for it to expand further. Yeah, if he had the right, we could have brought him in here if we had shipped him one of those backpacks. No, for sure. He could have traveled. For sure. He could have. I mean, it was a lot of space, a lot of room.

10:14You just got a magic compartment. You just pull out plane tickets whenever you need them. Absolutely. They're just right there. I couldn't agree more. Fantastic stuff.

10:22Malcolm Harris: Chris, we normally have a bunch of headlines on the What the Truck, but this is a special episode. No, no, no. All right. This is different. I think I did get a Claude picture of Chris. Did you really? I think so. I don't know if Cody had time to get it done. What did you get for us? I don't know. Cody. There it is. Oh. Badum. Oh. This is who Claude thinks you are, bro. Right there. How about that? What has he got there? Same soul, bigger plays? Is that what that says? I believe so. It does. I don't know what that means, but there you go, brother. That's you. It's free. Why, thank you, gentlemen.

10:58Not in a backpack. My whole day's downhill from here.

11:05Malcolm Harris: We're going to turn it around. We're going to turn it around. You said that there are 100 square miles of idle trailers out there any given day, not just because fleets don't care, but because trailer operations never had a system built for execution. Walk us through this problem, Chris. You know, it's really interesting to me now, 40 plus years in the space, right? And the last optimized asset out there is the over-the-road trailer. and you know many many reasons but you think about it all the other asset classes chassis rail cars containers trade and pools and the over the road trailer was just kind of left out of that optimization everything else is optimized the gates your routes your truck all of those things are over optimized you know dock doors yards but we're just now getting to the semi-trailer optimization place.

11:58And that's the exciting piece that we feel. Obviously, after five years of doing this at Repower, that we've got kind of a leg up and a lead in the optimization of over-the-road trailers. You know, I could have used this when I started out my career for Roadway Express in Toledo, Ohio, and I had to go do yard checks. And it's a major relay point between Chicago Heights in harrisburg which is a massive amount of freight cruises along that border massive amount off the east coast because it's like where everything coming out of of like uh the buffalo north coming in that way boston and all new and also south like new york city new jersey and all that stuff they all convene right there in toledo and then head out to chicago right and so any given day there might be 500 trailers out there oh wow because all the line haul trailers and shit right oh wow So me and another dude, you know, either minus five or 95 degrees.

12:57100%. We were out there doing every one. You learn real quick how to flick the little latch at the back and go, Echo, it's empty, right? Because you got to. But then that's what, tell us how the solution and all this, because I could have used that back in 1988, bro. Yeah, so the industry is still using spreadsheets. You know, your TMS, if you're, you know, enterprise level carrier, Your TMS is telling you you've got tracking. All of those things tell you where they are, but they don't provide the execution later. So what we did was sit down with six fleets and leasing co's, large different sizes, embedded ourselves with their trailer management teams, and then kind of built a very simple yet effective optimization tool that when coupled with our marketplace, we could execute those moves in an automated format.

13:53So think as simple as short markets and long markets. As an enterprise carrier, you're always moving assets to the next best opportunity. I've got a new dedicated deal. I've got a new customer, whatever it is. And we allow those short market and long market moves to take. Those are expensive moves. I either pay to have the trailer moved or I send my driver and he becomes sort of an orphan at the end of that drop when she drops it into the pool. So we provide the way to operate to take that cost out via our top software platform.

14:28Malcolm Harris: Let's jump into that, Chris. And that's a perfect segue because you're calling TAP the industry's first trailer optimization platform. What's the difference between the tool that actually analyzes the trailer data and one that actually is built to execute the repositioning behind this thing? Yeah, and I think that's the key. So everybody has visibility. So I know where my units are. I know idle, you know, and I know, you know, up my CRM pipeline where I'm going to need those trailers moved to. Historically, what was missing was the ability to execute that move in a hands-off manner. So just automate that move.

15:07And what we've seen with our customers that are on the top platform today, we're uncovering 2x the opportunity. They were on our platform to begin with. Now that we're analyzing the data, analyzing their upcoming deals, we're uncovering 2x the opportunities to move assets. So it's meaningful. And we've taken idle days down by 40 % in those same fleets that are on the platform. So those are significant numbers that the marketplace that we started six years ago allows us to have the execution layer for. It's taking visibility, but then adding execution. So you've got plans and you've got strategies that are changing constantly.

15:52They're constantly in motion, right? Nothing is static. And it's part of the problem of why people lose where the hell the trailers are and lose their optimization, right? Absolutely. So how does top connect all that together for that strategic planning and that live actual execution of that plan? Everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the face, bro. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. So we connect via the beneficial trailer owner, the BTO, whether that's a leasing co or, you know, a large enterprise fleet. We connect to their data. They set the targets. So they're in there.

16:23They can set those targets daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly. That basically says, these are the pools that I need. This is where, you know, this is the optimal pools that I need. We then automatically take that data and we know, let's say, Atlanta's long, Chattanooga's short. And then we execute that move. We send that out to the demand carrier side of our platform, which, you know, we've had about 8 ,000 smaller fleets that have come in since the beginning of the company. and they execute that move. So the trailer, that cost of moving it or moving it with my truck now becomes, I take all that cost out.

17:01And depending on how far up in the CRM and the TMS, if I have 30 days to move that asset, I'll now actually make money as the beneficial trailer owner on that move.

17:13Malcolm Harris: now chris for operators plugged into repower in the marketplace specifically does top change how much capacity actually gets listed and utilized yeah and i i thank you i mentioned earlier yeah we are seeing now where early on dealing with the trailer managers of these large fleets uh they manage sometimes 2500 to 3000 assets with a person we are 2xing the number of trailers that they needed to move because now they're looking at the data and looking at idle time and looking at the opportunities of the other markets to execute those moves. So yeah, it's 2x the number of moves because we're doing it via data instead of in a spreadsheet in the TMS, you know, in their trailer telematics.

18:05Malcolm Harris: So Chris, is this a bigger one for a fleet with less wasted trailer time or new income from assets that were sitting still? What is a bigger win here? You know, I think that's very interesting because initially in looking at these trailer sharing platforms, you know, Repower obviously being the largest and having the most staying power. The initial was, hey, we'll provide rental revenues to you for underutilized assets. And that's certainly a use case, absolutely. But the real majority, the beneficial trailer owners need those assets. They're like shifting sand. They're moving constantly to the next best revenue opportunity, which is what they do with their trucks, what they do with their freight, what they do with their fuel.

18:51Now we're adding you can do this with your trailer too. So, Chris, obviously you guys tested this on different fleets, various types of fleets, different types of equipment, that type of stuff, right? During those tests, I'm sure you went out there and said, look, we got the perfect solution, as everybody thinks, right? What are some things that you learned that you kind of didn't expect? You're like, oh, that's an issue right there. You know, there were a couple of things that we knew ahead of time, but having the data now proved, you know, shippers, you know, bless them because they generate the freight, right?

19:32But they like to use carriers' trailers, and they like to use them for storage, and they like to have some extra assets around. So we were able to identify that relatively quickly. And then the other thing was, as you pop up a new piece of business, this industry for years, you go through this laborious, laborious, RFP cycle. You get a win. You get an award. and the freight never operates quite like the award you get. And yet in a lot of cases, the beneficiaries, the carriers that win the bid move their trailers in based on the exact covenants of that bid and it never works out that way. So there's a way to optimize building out the pools for new pieces of business.

20:22And that was something that we really was a big learning in the top rollout.

20:28Malcolm Harris: So what was the tipping point that made automation finally worth the switch when it came to, I guess, this managed trailers, manual solution that I'm saying? Yeah, I think the tipping point really becomes, you know, the fact drop and hook was brought to you by, you know, drop and hook, great concept. Unfortunately, I'm old enough to remember it. My staff tells me that I was renting covered wagons way back in the day. It's not true, man. That is not true at all. Do not let them say that. Nobody was doing drop and hook with covered wagons. With covered wagons. Well, they circled them, though. You had to sometimes.

21:05But, you know, the truth was drop and hook was brought to you by$8 ,000 trailers. I mean, the asset was not that expensive. And it was like, okay, if I put three of those in there, it's not that big of a deal. um today that's you know depending on the tariff of the day um you know that's a 45 000 trailer for a drive-in today and if i've got to go three to one that's not super optimal anymore so i think that's the tipping point is the capex play well i mean if you get some older some of those old zeppelins that roadway and yellow were were flying around you'd still be good with it there were 90 aluminum trailer tape really you know like once it got over 50 percent then we retired them back in the day right it wasn't roadworthy anymore when half of it was tape right not at all percentage uh 27 plus pops tell me about the guys that were out there hitting latches and using uh you know magnadex cards to figure out where their trailers are that type of stuff.

22:09Is this person going away or is this person just now so much more efficient? It's so much more efficient. You know, they're not going to go away. You still have to, you still, there is a piece of yard management. You know, again, Drop and Hook brought you the entire industry called yard management. Before Drop and Hook was around, you didn't, you know, it was live load, live unload. You didn't have to have Drop. You didn't have to have yard management. The reality of it though is the optimization of those pools what we're seeing in a couple of these pools at you know 40 increased utilization if i've got a thousand trailers sitting there that means that i could get 400 of them out of there that's a massive amount of capex yeah it's huge math it's It's fun.

22:58Oh, it is fun. Math is fun. It sells a lot of money. That's the exciting piece for us. And the shipper still – at the end of the day, the shipper wants lower landed cost, right? I want my – I got to get my product to market as cheap as possible. Drop and hook helped that happen, right, because I got throughput. But now it's become a little bit of a burden because it's so much more expensive to own those trailers. What you really need is the throughput. Yeah, you do. and it's kind of, you know, dropping. But I could go down so many rabbit holes, and I often do. I'm trying to stay on track here.

23:31I'm trying to be a better me. You know what I'm saying? I'm trying to emulate my hero, Malcolm, who is a better him every day. He wakes up better than yesterday. You know what I'm saying? That's right. He's one of those guys. Now, what I wanted to talk about, certain industries are built on drop and hook and yard management, right? like LTL and certain distribution are built on that type of stuff. Talk about those advantages that those type of people could, you know, because there's a whole industry called LTL that could benefit from this. Well, you know, the LTL market, and again, that's something that we participate in LTL, mainly on the line haul side.

24:12So once it's consolidated and going, you know, that's really more of the play. Yeah. You know, 28-foot pups don't really get out of balance that much because of the con gear, right? And when they do, they usually throw them on the train. So it hasn't been a big, you know, a big focus area for us. You know, we're startup business now, like I said, going into our sixth year. We've been really kind of focused on the over-the-road, dry, flat, and reefer market so far. but you know ltl consolidation uh certainly has you know it it's going to have to continue because i got to do the pickup and drop i got to do i got to get it to the crossbar yeah yeah yeah but i mean it's it's the utilization that's there you talk about dropping hooks all over the country i mean there's thousands of trailers out there it's like you drive around and you see i wonder if uh you know, MCS lines knows that container sitting in the back of that guy's yard.

25:13You know what I mean? That's a very, very good point.

25:17Malcolm Harris: Now, Chris, is this replacing the person who manages trailer positioning or changes what that person is spending their time on throughout the day? Yeah, I don't think it replaces the person. I think it, but it does provide utilization. You know, if I can take my idle days down by 40 % and a lot of the time that person was spending was around managing those idle trailers, then I've got 40 % capacity to go out and do other things that are more revenue generating for the business. So, Chris, describe to me the new visibility I have when I put on these new glasses that you put on, right? If I do this, I don't even know if I'm talking to you or who it is.

26:03But here now I got, is it down to the yard level? Is it down to the parking level? What kind of visibility are we talking about here? We start at 30 ,000 feet and then we go all the way down to the pool level, the branch level. I can do it by city. I can cut and chop and deliver that messaging, everything from a national map down to a zip code. So, you know, we have the visibility of all of those assets. I encourage anybody top demo AI, by the way, just go out and get a top demo AI and sign up. It's free. And we can show you down to the pool level, again, down to a branch level if I'm a leasing company, down to a city, you know, down to a Metroplex, Dallas, Fort Worth.

26:50You know, I can show you the difference in both of those markets. We have that level of granularity.

26:55Malcolm Harris: It's fantastic. Chris, if a fleet executive takes away one thing about why trailer repositioning finally has a real system behind it, what do you want that one thing to be? Why are you buying any CapEx prior to making sure you're utilizing what you have? $50 ,000 trailers are expensive. Yes, they are. Yeah. I mean, every CFO in transportation needs to ask that question or be asked that question by Chris, right? I mean, that's your audience, right? That's CFO. Hello. Right? I mean, there it is. I mean, it's a CapEx decision. And we think we've got a great opportunity to help that CapEx be utilized in better places.

27:46Malcolm Harris: Well, the team at Repower is going to continue to lead the charge because they're in great hands with you at the forefront. Again, Chris Hines, CEO at Repower. Chris, so good to see you. I appreciate you for being here at the Enterprise Fleet Summit. You were fantastic, and don't be a stranger. Yeah. T for Texas, T for Tennessee. Hey, before you go, who you got this weekend? You going Tennessee or Texas? You better say the right thing. He's going for UT. Oh, man. Put those horns down, Chris. We're too close. He could have just said UT. You know what I'm saying? That was a cop-out. Yeah. You're just saying UT?

28:22Yeah. It would have been a cop-out. I like burnt orange. Okay. There you go. We'll see you soon.

28:28Malcolm Harris: It is a much better color, isn't it? Stop. No, it is not, fellas. What's up with the checkerboard, the picnic blanket in the end zone? I don't understand that stuff. Hook them horns, baby. There you go. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. appreciate you as always chris man uh that was a great introduction to the enterprise summit episode here on what the church was fantastic yeah i could have talked to him like you know what we do we we could have a two-hour show and be fine well there's so many different things to talk about and and and advantages we didn't even get into brokers who are power only brokers who could use this stuff right i mean you know i mean i'm not gonna call my friend shannon breen at freight vana and say dude oh great you know great folks over there as well Yeah, yeah, yeah.

29:08Malcolm Harris: I mean, these guys running fleets and stuff like that of trailers. Hello. Let's talk about some safety in this space. And we're going to go with an organization that is fantastic. Safety, I like safety. Safety's good. Come on, you got to have it in the space. I mean, you know, it ain't worth doing if you can't do it safely. The VP of Safety Solutions at Descartes is officially joining the show here for the Enterprise Fleet Summit. It is Mr. Hayden Cardiff. Hayden, you are officially on What the Truck. What's happening, sir? How are you? Doing great. thanks for having me thank you so much background's perfect he's got tennessee over his left shoulder he's got texas over his right shoulder it's kind of like from animal house i mean you couldn't have positioned this better if you wanted check it out right goodness i love it man this is this is i dumped you into claude too dude to get your your claude picture and there he is check him out here man what is with claude and like golden retrievers claude is a golden retriever fanatic

30:16nebulous what's that does any of that make any sense to you does any of this make any sense to you brother there's a lot going on here there's a lot going on uh but no it's just a little bit a little bit of all the background here yeah yeah yeah yeah well that mean i guess that's the point

30:32Malcolm Harris: right i guess that's the point that is the point it's beautiful stuff i don't know why elon musk made it in there but he did you see that i did see that in the corner i was like okay like shout out to hayden and elon musk

30:47Malcolm Harris: hayden let's start with the big premise here the trucking industry has invested heavily in compliance but compliance and safety aren't necessarily the same thing what are we getting wrong what what does that look like yeah i mean that's a good question it's not necessarily what we're getting wrong it's more so what we're missing or not focusing on right and i think the idea here is compliance is is kind of the starting that's kind of where we need to get going but that is definitely not the end or the the final goal safety really comes down to can we understand who is most at risk and who we need to spend our time with and then can we coach those drivers to actually change meaningful behavior and compliance is kind of the wrapper around that to say are we doing all the right things to make sure the drivers are fit to even be on the road in the first place and so uh compliance is very important but it's really kind of the kind of the first rung in the massive ladder which is safety and risk so am i am i am i safe in assuming that uh or what you're applying really is you could have check all these boxes right and hit all this compliance stuff and even hit all those things like your csa score and stuff like that and still be at risk of accidents and safety violations in your company even if you're doing all those different things yeah unfortunately that's that's uh that's exactly right where from a compliance standpoint you can be checking all the boxes you can make sure that you've done all the things that drivers need dq files all the things that the the vehicles need but then honestly the drivers are what's most important when it comes to their behavior how are we actually understanding what their behavior looks like uh in a more holistic sense and then be able to proactively get in front of any of those leading indicators get in front of any of the behaviors to make sure that are we actually understanding who is most at risk?

32:49Are we fully comprehending why they're at risk? And then are we doing the right things as a safety, more importantly, an operations team to get in front of that, get on the same side of the table, engage with that driver, and hopefully prevent those crashes from happening?

33:05Malcolm Harris: Hayden, I have a question. I really like this one. We were doing show prep a little bit yesterday. We've got ELDs. we've got dash cams telematics csa scores ai monitoring so many other things do fleets have a data problem or do they have an information problem that's a that's a really good question and this is one that you know i go around and i talk to fleets i i speak at different events and this is one that i actually joke around with a little bit and i just ask people like raise your hand if you feel like you don't have enough data and most of the time i didn't know i didn't know he was smart as well as good looking you know what i'm saying that that was that question blew me i almost fell out of my chair holy craig bro he's not he's not a membo he's not a member of the game yeah and most people like the rooms typically hands stay down but then you ask like guys like who who here feels like they have way too much data and they're choking on it and just don't know what to do with it and that's where hands fly up and so that's where it's it's interesting now.

34:09I mean, gone are the days where we don't have enough data. And to your point, now really, it's where a lot of fleets, Malcolm, feel like we are data rich, but information poor. And I think that's an important distinction to understand that you can have a ton of data coming at you, but ultimately not know what it's telling you or what to do from it. And so that's where being able to have access to all the data, but really be able to generate the information and insight and the actionable what to do next is the most important part. Yeah. So let's make that flip, right? There's a lot of carriers out there that think that checking those boxes and documenting all those things and going into the HR, making sure those files are perfect, right?

34:57and and and they're good right but it feels a lot like the malcolm baldridge award and and tqm and all you know total quality management where you you know they're like you go out of business because you're documenting how good you are right is that is that kind of what we're talking about here man like like document yeah okay you got to document because someday you're going to be in that courtroom but you've got to be doing something with that right and pleats are spending too much time on that aspect. Is that right? A hundred percent. I think fleets are spending too much time managing data. They're spending too much time trying to figure out where to go and what to do.

35:39And the easiest and most comfortable place for them is to fall back on, okay, are we compliant? That's great. And yes, you have to be compliant, but that's table stakes, candidly. You have to be able to understand driver behavior both in and out of the cab. You need to be able to correlate what that data is actually telling you. You need to be able to understand patterns of behavior of what's come before. And then you need to be able to take all of that circle around who are your most at-risk drivers and then start to coach those drivers in a way that's not degrading to the driver, doesn't act as just noise, but it's actually something that the drivers can buy into.

36:19And candidly, something that your managers can buy into as well. And when you create that type of environment, now you can get something special where you actually get behavior change.

36:29Malcolm Harris: You know, at the end of the day, fleet executives care about a lot, but specifically crashes, injuries, insurance costs and downtime. How does moving from compliance to proactive safety show up where they really have an opinion? And that's the balance sheet. Yeah, this is where it all comes down. Because again, everyone says, and they should say, that safety is the most important priority. You can't put a price on safety. However, you can absolutely cost out what a lack of safety is hitting you from a top-line perspective. And you can obviously look at your accidents, your claims. You can look at insurance costs, but also downtime, loss of productivity.

37:17A lot of times customers are looking at your incident rates and you're losing out on business and jobs because of poor safety performance. And so there's a lot at stake when it comes to understanding and improving your safety performance. Yeah. So, Hayden, let's talk to the purse keepers, the CFOs. Let's talk to the importance that is there, right? Safety is important. Productivity is important. Quality is important, right? But you can't do any of those things if you're not in business anymore, right? So switching from this compliance minded documentation to this pro and finding out why that happened to proactive what might happen.

38:00Talk about that impact on the bottom line, which is really where all this filters down to. Yeah. And I think right now, the scenario that we're in for most fleets in the industry is, look, rates from an insurance perspective aren't going down anytime soon. Over the last five to 10 years, every year we've seen rate increases and the commercial auto industry still isn't making money. And so they're continuing to push those rates up. And so for fleets, what that means is a couple of things. One, pay absorber prices or start to take on more risk. So that's higher insurance rates. I'm sorry, higher self-insurance rates or higher deductibles.

38:39And so when you do that, yes, you can kind of stave off some of the insurance costs, but you're bringing on more of the risk to yourself. And so this is where for fleets, it's a gamble. You're betting on yourself to say, look, I believe that we can be safer and perform better than what our insurance carrier is giving us credit for. And in those scenarios, if you prevent crashes, prevent claims, that first dollar amount up to your self-insured retention goes right back to you, which is fantastic. And so in this environment, you have to be able to really have a strong understanding of what your costs are, your total cost of risk, both from an insurance perspective and also for your claims.

39:19And so if you can go in and start to reduce your accident rate, reduce the frequency and severity of those claims, now you can start to get a lot of that back into your pocket, hitting the bottom line. And you get a much better improvement from a P &L standpoint. But if you don't, man, you can really, really rack up the claims costs very quickly. Because as you know, and again, we were talking about the expensive trailers just before this, right? Like equipment is also skyrocketing from a price standpoint. So when you get into a crash or you, you ding up a truck or a trailer, heaven forbid you, you have a, a claimant or a third party, a third party that you hit.

40:03And so now you have to pay for medical and litigation. Like those costs can skyrocket. You have a lot of the, a lot of the nuclear verdicts now that are getting into the tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. So it can get very pricey, very quickly. absolutely can yeah the downside's way down I mean way you done you done hey if you could I guess if you could make every fleet safety

40:33Malcolm Harris: manager in America measure one thing they probably aren't measuring today and really think about this what would it be yeah that's a really good question so So I'll jump into two, candidly. So a lot of people are looking at accidents per million miles. A lot of people are looking at DOT, preventable crash rates. A lot of people are looking at CSA scores. A couple of things that fleets aren't really looking at is proactive risk scoring and then coaching effectiveness. Those are two things that fleets absolutely have to be evaluated to be effective at safety and risk. And if they're not, then they're missing out on some really key and important insights.

41:20So the proactive side of the risk scoring is absolutely critical because a lot of times fleets today invest in cameras and they can use that technology to be able to understand what's going on specifically inside the cab when it comes to telematical alerts, distracted driving, things like that. And that's really helpful. But fleets will look at that in isolation. They'll say, hey, how do I measure risk? Well, I have my camera solution, I have my telematics solution, and that's giving me my risk identification. Well, the challenge there is there's so much other data outside of just your camera solution or outside of just your telematics that you're not looking at.

42:02Or more importantly, you're not correlating in with your telematic data, but looking at inspections, violations, citations, accidents, incidents, and claims, near misses, your training in LMS, your things like your driver demographic, their tenure type of vehicle and they're in the routes that they're running. All of that is incredibly important context that you as a fleet need to look at to evaluate how risky your drivers are. And if you're not looking at that holistically, if you're not pulling all that data in together and then seeing the connective tissue between that and letting true predictive analytics, machine learning, and AI really help you understand where your risk is in a singular score, you're going to miss out on a lot of insight there.

42:54So that's kind of the step one. And really step two is understanding once you've identified that driver risk through that proactive risk, proactive driver scoring, how effective is your coaching? How effective are your managers at actually helping to change driver behavior? And if you don't have a good handle on coaching effectiveness, then you're going to really suffer because you're going to do a lot of work without understanding how much output you're actually getting for it.

43:24Malcolm Harris: Absolutely. Hayden Cardiff, again, VP of Safety Solutions at Descartes. Hayden, thank you so much for being here today at the Enterprise Fleet Summit. Fantastic stuff. Cannot wait to have you back on With the Truck soon, man. absolutely we appreciate it thanks guys yes i appreciate you and we appreciate you guys for being here for the enterprise fleet summit here in dallas this has been fantastic again i want to some love to our sponsors before we get to the road ahead because we have some fantastic folks just want to give them some love one more time again our regional sponsor of the day is none other than of course tremble as well as freight waves health and then our content sponsors are going to be truckstop.com carrier one repower and no dwell and then also we are going to have our demo sponsors which is going to be map up and solera thank you guys so much for what you guys have done today for the enterprise fleet summit and for us here at what the truck coming up for the road ahead this upcoming friday two great guests are going to be in the building excited to have them mr larry wyatt he is founding an international juggernaut in chattanooga tennessee This is going to be a fantastic one.

44:30Malcolm Harris: And you guys know this guy very, very well. He is from Descartes. Weimer is in the building. Andrew Weimer. So between Andrew and Larry, we're going to have a fantastic Friday as we head into the weekend. That is all for us here. I'm Malcolm Harris, and you are... And Michael Hinton. It's another episode of What the Truck. Like, subscribe, follow. Peace and love. Oh, there it is. That's it.

45:05We'll be right back.