How a $105M Fake Fleet Scheme Fooled 700+ Investors

0:26Malcolm Harris: Welcome to a Monday Night Live. Monday edition of What The Truck. My name is Malcolm Harris. For those that do not know, it is good to see you. I'm not as hyped today because I, believe it or not, cannot hear. I wanted to let production know. I can't hear on my side. It's all good, though, because we're going to keep moving, shaking, and baking because I'm pretty sure I can make out what Mr. Michael Vincent is saying. So with that, Mike, hello, sir. How's it going? I'm doing great. This is going to be crazy. I'm trying to guess as best as possible. If I could guess what Mike had said, he was probably like, doing good, my brother.

1:09Malcolm Harris: And that's exactly what he said. So I'm getting a box right now from Frazier. Thank you, Frazier. I appreciate it. Wow. This is crazy, man. There it is. Just like that. Am I in? Yeah, you're in. Everything is fantastic, dude. I mean, the football gods made everything right this weekend with Michigan. That was fantastic. I love to see Iowa with a no time left on the clock, score a touchdown, beat them. That was fantastic. Did you see that, bro? Fantastic, man. Nah, the football gods did not shine on me this week as, unfortunately, the Texas Longhorns are, in fact, the real UT, which is unfortunate.

1:57I don't know about that. I don't know what, I don't know, whatever. But I will tell you this, UT, not UT. They're both, both UTs. But I watched a game where neither team wanted to win. It was like, what? No, you win. No, you go ahead. No, no, no. All right, we'll take, well, maybe not. You guys go ahead. I was like, what? Did nobody want to win this game?

2:19Malcolm Harris: No, nobody wanted to win the game. Nobody wanted to win the game. It was crazy because I was just like, man, like, guys, It's like Tennessee was actually in position to get blown out in the first quarter. And then from there, they kept battling, kept fighting. And then in the fourth quarter with one second left, the last feed to the end zone. And yeah, unfortunately, they didn't come through. But it is all right. It is all right. Better days ahead for the Tennessee faithful. Arch Manning went, wait a minute. I'm really, I'm not this good. Dude is like up, down. He like realized, wait a minute.

2:51I'm Arch Manning. Oh, yeah. I'm not that good. It's weird, man. It's weird. Anyways, yeah. It was a good weekend, dude. I had a great weekend. I am very, very happy for today. No, I'm looking forward to today, too. Bill Cooper's in the house, dude. You say what? Bill Cooper's in the house.

3:12Malcolm Harris: He is in the house, in fact, man. I'm still having audio issues. It's like very faint. It's like I can hear, but it's just like extremely low. Should I yell louder? It might be me. at this point. I don't know, but we'll figure it out. But I can make out what you're saying. So it's all good. Let's look at On Deck and see who we have here on the show today because we have an incredible guest. He is here in studio, Mr. Bill Cooper, man. Met with Bill. He is Maine's finest. He is the vice president of sales at Kooner Fleet Management Solutions. It's just us and Bill today, and I'm excited to speak with him.

3:50Malcolm Harris: So he's going to be talking about, of course, as you guys know, fleet maintenance. All right. So he has two decades in fleets, payments, technology, and he's got a lot to say about becoming the real battleground in a market where every dollar matters. All right. So we're going to get into the cost of a truck sitting still while mobile and onsite repair is turning into a strategic advantage instead of just a convenience and why so many fleets still struggle to execute preventative maintenance at a high level, even when everyone agrees that it matters. All right. So I'm really excited to talk with bill in the studio.

4:23Malcolm Harris: He's looking dapper. He has the vest. He's ready to go. But before we get to him, all right, you guys know what we do here at What the Truck. We got to pay the bills and we got to pay them on time, all right? That's the making of a good organization, all right? With that, I want to give a special shout out to a guy who was on the show last Friday. Had a fantastic time with this guy, didn't we, Mike? He goes by the name of Andrew Wymer. Andrew Wymer. Yeah, no, he's awesome, dude. I like him. He's He's fantastic. He's not in the house too, is he? You say what? He's not in the house. You say what?

5:01Man, I hope Bill's got it together because he's going to have to carry the show today.

5:06Malcolm Harris: No, I think he can hear okay. If Bill can hear okay, then I'm good too, man. Again, I can hear what you're saying, but you kind of sound like Ratatouille a little bit in my ear. So it's like very, very faint. But no, Andrew Weimer, he's representing, of course, Descartes. All right, that is our presenting sponsor. of the month, we would not be where we are at without Descartes. To put it in perspective, all right, they are introducing that we talked about on Friday, which is absolutely fantastic. That is Descartes MacroPoint ELD Plus, all right? This is a new dual source tracking capability that combines ELD and mobile app tracking in one session.

5:42Malcolm Harris: You can spot discrepancy sooner, capture proof of delivery, gain greater confidence in every single load, and much more, all right? So with that being said, you can learn more right now at Descartes.com. You can also look at last Friday's episode to hear Andrew Weimer talk about this in great detail because it is some fantastic technology that is definitely going to shape tomorrow for all of us here in transportation. So Descartes, thank you guys so much for what you guys are doing, of course, for us here at What the Truck on Freightwaves TV. All right, with that being said also, we would not be here today's episode, especially without the folks at Kooner Fleet Management Solutions.

6:23Malcolm Harris: All right. Without this team, there is no what the truck this month, and there is no ad read. So with that being said, we're going to talk about this in full detail, but you guys know how it goes. A truck that's not moving isn't making any money, all right? That's why every breakdown means lost revenue, misloads driver downtime, and added pressure on your business. That's why fleets across North America trust Kooner Fleet Management Solutions for mobile maintenance, preventative service, DOT inspections, and nationwide repair support. Kooner's tailored services help maximize revenue by keeping trucks moving, drivers earning, and freight on schedule.

6:57Malcolm Harris: You can visit KoonerFMS.com slash whatthetruck for your complimentary fleet maintenance review. Again, that is Kooner Fleet Management Solutions. And Mr. Bill Cooper is going to be here in about 10 minutes or so to give us a full breakdown of their breadth of services. All right. So again, Cooner Fleet Management Solutions. And with this being said, we are officially on the clock, Mr. Vincent. You know why? No, I don't. Because we're 30 days out of F3. The Future of Freight Festival is officially here. F3, ladies and gentlemen, is going to be taking place October 27th and the 28th at The Signal.

7:39Malcolm Harris: All right. This is going to be the event of the year. I've seen a lot of posts happen. This is going to be off the chain, and I'm excited. My beard is not going to be nearly as bushy as it was last year. There's just no way. But you're going to see Zach Strickland in the building. You're going to see Craig Fuller in the building. You're going to have a lot of different folks that are going to be there. We may even have a what the truck. I've got to get with Michael Vincent. I was telling Jen, I might be pulled away doing some hosting stuff. All right. So with that being said, we are going to hopefully have a What the Truck episode that's going to take place.

8:15Malcolm Harris: All right. Tickets are on sale right now. You see the Lizard October 27th and the 28th. And there are tickets available. And say, for example, you're like, you know, I want to come to F3, but, you know, that ticket price is a little expensive. All you got to do is use this promo code. All right. This is take 20. You are able to take 20 % off of your ticket of admission to go to the Future of Freight Festival. All right. Tickets are on sale right now only at FreightWaves.com. You can take that exclusive code and be able to get a ticket of admission and a little promo off. You're going to see Chattanooga Whiskey.

8:49Malcolm Harris: Mike Vincent might be there. You never know. All right. Tickets, again, on sale October 27th and the 28th at The Signal. This is the Future of Freight Festival. All right. Thank you guys so much for all you do. Mr. Vincent, you said you may be having some audio issues. Are you good now? I hear you. Are you hearing me yet? See, now I can't hear you entirely. This is crazy. I don't know how we're going to be able to do this, but it's fine. It's all good. We are going to be consummate professionals. I'm happy that Bill Cooper is here in studio, so hopefully we'll be good to go. But yeah, just to let you guys know, going through a little bit of audio issue difficulties, but we will get these situated before too long.

9:34Malcolm Harris: Let's talk real quick, all right, about the news. All right, I'm going to take you through this in detail. And then we're going to just do a little popcorn. Me and Mike, while we figure this out, I'm going to read them. And then you're going to get some correspondence from Mr. Vincent while we figure out this audio issue. All right, so the first article is going to be one that I saw over the weekend that, y 'all, this is absolutely crazy. All right. So the feds have officially been in the mix. All right. They have charged Christopher Lunsford. All right. In a semi truck investment scheme involving more than one hundred and five million dollars.

10:15Malcolm Harris: Guys get this. All right. So he's out of Henderson, Nevada. He's facing six wire fraud counts and two money laundering charges. Investigators claim that hundreds of people bought leases expecting passive income from commercial trucking operations. So then from there, they said that this covered around 765 investors nationwide. All right, so participants, they typically invested between$25 ,000 and$40 ,000 for each vehicle, according to the federal indictment documentation. They expected guaranteed weekly payouts ranging from$1 ,000 to$1 ,250. Lunsford represented that he would purchase the equipment, hire the drivers, secure the insurance, and operate each unit.

10:56Malcolm Harris: Customers perform no work under the arrangement while expecting profits generated through freight activity. So it was essentially put your money in, I operate, I do this type of business, I'm going to take something off of the top, and then also you're going to be paid out in weekly installments. This is how the arrangement was, seemed pretty straightforward. But the only thing is this didn't exist, all right? They said that what happened was that essentially nothing was happening. Things were materially overstated. The businesses also represented that investor funds would be purchased and the operation would find drivers, cargo loads, insurance, equipment, all this jazz, all right?

11:35Malcolm Harris: And eventually, man, this thing just got out of hand quick and in a hurry, all right? Each wire count, to put in perspective, guys, carries a maximum 20-year prison sentence upon conviction, all right? So they could, again, bring up 10 years apiece. The United States is also seeking an unprecedented amount of forfeiture, man. $105 ,940 ,214.93. It is crazy. Now, Mr. Vincent, if you can hear me on your end, give me a little background about what is happening here when you saw this article, brother. I don't know if you can hear me or not. I don't know if anybody else can hear me. But here's the thing.

12:21A faithful man shall abound with blessings, but he that maketh haste to be rich shall be innocent. In other words, watch out for fraud, guys. You know what I mean? This is exactly one of the problems. It's just amplified in our system, right? So look, returns were way too high. Anybody who is investing in this was just duped and beyond stupid. The returns were way too high. $1 ,250 a week per truck. Nobody's ever made those type of margins. That's a 260 % turnaround in a year. Never going to happen. Brand new trucking fleet said, we got 2 ,000 trucks. Yeah, there's another warning, right? You could have easily checked that fleet size in the FMCSA.

13:10The headquarters was a house. You had no ownership of a specific truck. You went to specific bank accounts that were run by Lunsford, his personal accounts. You had recruiters and others showing off their wealth, showing partying on Reddit and YouTube and so on and so forth. it's not how you act if you're a real company being invested in and early payouts taken that's not proof that's how a ponzi scheme works you get early people then you get new people to pay out the new people and bring in more cash to prove that you're there it's complete bs the simple believeth every word but the prudent man taketh well to his going proverbs 14 15 dude check it out.

13:59That's Proverbs 14, 15.

14:02Malcolm Harris: Let there be audio. That's not what was said at all. That's not what was said at all. I do not want to provide blast for me out here at all because Jesus is King, but man, uh, the King of audio, it worked. I don't know what you just said at all, but I invoked the Holy spirit and it came back, dude. I was like, you know, I genuinely do not know what my brother is saying, but I trust him with my life. Praise. And you came through. Yo, shout out to the Boiler Room boys. Y 'all boys are going to find a solution. I appreciate it. Thank y 'all so much. All right. Look, what'd you say? What I was just saying, what I was saying, basically just running down a list of why before anybody cut a check, they could have easily went, yeah, it's BS.

14:47In other words, you thought you were going to make a ton of money. The haste, lose their money. The prudent person checks things out, right? Build wealth slow. Fast paced. Hey, are you going to make a million bucks over a month on trucks at anything don't do that this was a scam i mean you can spot this

15:03Malcolm Harris: from a mile away it's like hey like we're gonna go yeah it's it's crazy i mean this is this is wild i mean this is a real this is a real substantial thing and there's there's no amount of uh lawyer being that i don't think this guy out of nevada can do to get out of this one this is crazy no no no no but the people who lost all their money on that they're they shouldn't be given any money back because they're totally not good stewards of money yeah they're not i mean if you're you're investing this amount of money i mean this is it's kind of like a lottery scratch off you just you get what you're gonna get and uh yeah you can check this one out on freightways.com right now i want to transition to this next one because it's uh out of yeah yeah please out of memphis and this is uh 901 all right for those that know man i do love memphis it's a great city but not some great news out of here right now the fbi's memphis cargo theft task force has investigated a major freight crime for nearly two decades.

15:56Malcolm Harris: All right. Its earlier cases look very different from today's scheme. All right. Agents once focused on warehouses, tractor trailers, chop shops, organized theft rings. And now they're officially saying that cyber schemes are the bee's knees. Not saying the bee's knees, but they are kind of taken front and center. All right. So what they're doing is they're looking at these investigations. And I want to say specifically This is coming from a FBI Nashville, Memphis agent, a special agent in charge, Jeremy Baker. He's helping oversee this work. All right. So what they're talking about, and these are direct quotes, early investigations often involve crimes of opportunity.

16:41Malcolm Harris: Thieves might encounter television shoes, another valuable commodity. Physical access often determine what the criminals took. Technology has now changed this model. Computer intrusions can now expose shipment information before pickup. They know exactly what they're picking up. The preparation can make a fraudulent pickup appear legitimate. Employees may believe the correct carrier has arrived. Through cyber-enabled means, the theft has been done before that truck arrives. All they have to do is have the truck arrive. They've already duped everybody. Criminals can then drive away with millions upon millions of dollars worth of merchandise before even lifting a finger.

17:18Malcolm Harris: Mike, when you saw this, I know what your thought process was. And I'm going to see if I know you very, very well. If I knew you whenever you were sitting there, saw this article and you were just like, well, no shit, that makes sense. It's just like, this is logic. But for those that don't know, Mike, what did you think whenever you saw this article come through? What was your thoughts? I love it because you could take just about anything and go, your first thoughts were no shit because that's usually that's it man right like look i was what i was in south florida packing up me and mel were down in south florida i was packing it's like two o 'clock in the morning we were leaving early to get back to chattanooga and i looked up and i saw what i thought was a uh a uh obviously a ufo taken off it was a it was a it was a rocket taken off from canaveral because you could you could see it from like 500 miles away almost down there.

18:14But I just, my first thought was, I know shit. That makes sense.

18:20My first thought was, huh, I guess nobody sold any race car shaped Kit Kats in Europe. So Phil had to go with just a full on straight up non-news story advertisement. Because this is absolutely nothing happened. He's just stating the obvious. There's no, there's nothing. It's a total fluff piece. But, and he missed the real story because you could have turned this into something really good that i've been implying for years right there are cracks in the system there's this third-party system in trucking and it's already dead it's been dying for years it's dead it's just a matter of when it actually dies for sure it's the third-party system carrier broker and and shipper creates randomness and i I mean, like, D-U-M-B-ness, randomness.

19:10And that's the real, that's the real enemy, right? It's a known, look, a known repeated relationship is much easier to verify than one off the, you know, than a one-off, you know, handed to a carrier, right? That nobody's worked with before. That's how fraud happens, right? If a shipper was directly with a carrier and they had that relationship and we have the computing power to make that happen without shippers having a huge shipping department anymore. I mean, it's all out there. You can do this really, really easy. I bet I could build one in about five days with perplexity and claw. I'm telling you I could.

19:46In fact, I already have. But so just give me a ring. Yeah. And that's what it is. That's what it is. I mean, a shipper doesn't have the relationship with the carrier. There's too much technology out there. The third-party system is dead and it's dying and it's dying faster and faster. We have yet another news article coming up next that puts another nail in that coffin.

20:11Malcolm Harris: Let's talk about this one. Great segue. Thank you so much. I mean, you have really been Magic Johnson today with the pass and the assist. I just caught that alley-oop off the backboard. I don't understand this next article. I want to be fully transparent with you guys because this is a pretty major serious thing. We're talking RICO charges, all right? This is significant. This is going to require some eyeballs and some ears from everybody. I mean, everybody in the industry. I mean, this is C.H. Robinson and CQL. These are leaders in the brokerage space, all right? There was a suit filed Wednesday in federal court for the Eastern District of Texas accusing C.H.

20:57Malcolm Harris: Robinson and T.Q.L. of having engaged in a pattern of racketeering activity predicated on forced labor and wired fraud from which they knowingly derive a substantial financial benefit. That is the definition of RICO. All right. So the lawsuit was brought by six carriers, Stevens Trucking, Western Flyer Express, D &M Carriers, Bray Miller Trucking, IWX Motor Freight, Christensen Transportation, Inc., and EOS, Inc. All right, this suit brings up a separate question. How many of these suits are brokers going to face? This is nuts, all right? And according to a lengthy statement from C.H. Robinson, they said, we reject the allegations in this silver suit.

21:41Malcolm Harris: It's false characterization of C.H. Robinson in our business practices, and it's fundamental inaccuracies about how the freight market actually works. Mike, buddy, when you talk about RICO charges, you don't often necessarily hear it in this space. I don't think I've ever heard it in this space. Again, I'm a younger guy, but this is of 101. You kind of hear this when it comes to criminals, like rappers. I've heard several rappers be indicted on RICO charges. I've heard it from drug dealers. you don't hear the term Rico charges and 3PL in the same sentence. Help me and our listeners, because I can't really make much sense of this, brother.

22:26Malcolm Harris: I'm not even going to lie to you. Yeah, no, it's difficult, and we need Matthew Leffler and Craig Fuller to be talking about this. We really do, because, I mean, Leffler brings the legal knowledge. Yeah, I agree. You know what I'm saying? I mean, looking at this case, there's difficulties here, and I'm sure, and Matthew will correct or agree with some of them. In a civil case, it's really, really hard for plaintiff harm to show. It has to be directly from the wrongdoing, right? It can't be. Supreme courts have rejected in the past RICO claims when the illegal conduct was aimed at someone else and the competitor only lost as a side effect.

23:11In other words, they're claiming that they're RICO on using the carriers and they are third party being negatively harmed. You see what I'm saying? I do. So that's a hard thing to do. The forced labor aspect of this is actually the stronger part of it because they've already, a Texas, and this is a Texas court, and a Texas jury has already found C.H. Robinson acted as a carrier in the Montgomery case,$604 million fatal crash.

23:47Malcolm Harris: Yeah. So that doesn't help the defense. It helps the plaintiff. And the plaintiffs got really, really... Nix Patterson is well, well known in the Eastern District of Texas. So they got a great plaintiff. Here's my bottom line, bro. That's awesome. They're going to go to motion to dismiss this, right? Have to. You absolutely have to. Of course. Of course. They got to go in and say, dude, Rico, really? This is insane, right? But it could still survive, but it puts in discovery. But what it's going to do is if it survives, and it probably will in a lesser thing, right? They start with Rico and then it'll come down if it survives.

24:30Here's the issue. All of those internal documents, every one of those texts, every one of those emails after you're ping-ponging and drinking beer on a Friday at a broker. Okay? All of that shit now becomes discoverable. and and and you see you went because now listen there is not a broker on the planet that wants all that stuff to come out you know why because it proves the plaintiff's case no and that's what i was saying is like it does that is going it does that's gonna prove that case for sure if that shit hits the fan it proves what we all know that brokers go for the cheapest freaking carriers And if they can get away with one and say, well, look, they were safe enough and we're going to make 15 cents a mile instead of five, that's what happens.

25:21And all those emails and everything are going to show that. Now, is that negligence? Does that mean they're on a hook? That's up for juries and lawyers to decide. But every single one of them does it. And this is the other one that I say, look, now they're charging you with RICO. And look, look at the computing power. Look what's going on. If you're a broker and you're not pivoting to do something other than just introducing the cheapest freaking carrier, you're dead. You're done. You're already dead. You're already dead. You're already dead. So get your head out of the sand. The broker as we know it is dead.

25:57I said it. There you go. The broker as we know it. So you think that this right here. As we know it. As we know it. I'm not saying all brokerage is dead. You better figure out a different model and you better pivot.

26:10Malcolm Harris: So, dang, all right, we got to stay here for a minute. Just one, like 30 more seconds. So, with this, let's just say that they obviously get this dismissed and there's a lesser, I mean, because I do not for a minute think that the RICO charge will stick, but I think there's going to be something that sticks. Is this a playbook for other carriers to hit other lesser brokerages that they've been working with? And then they won't have the infrastructure like a TQL or a CH Robinson to be able to get these documents. And they're probably we just going to settle, right? We'll see how this one goes, but it is absolutely a playbook in development.

26:45And that's what happened with the ruling of not being able to hide behind the bogus F or ABS, right? Is that finally it came to light where people can actually go, look, honestly, here's what's going on. Brokers look for the highest margin period, the end, and they get away with what they can get away with to make money. It's called shareholder primacy and it's the problem in our world period the end it's just like i say in our in our industry yeah it is it is a barrier to entry that's the problem the also the problem the world deals shareholder primacy period you're allowed to you're you're the greatest as long as you're extracting wealth at an exponential rate yeah it doesn't matter what it does to the you know what i'm saying and here is the opposite right here somebody said whoa whoa whoa through no virtuous effort whatsoever.

27:34Accidentally, we're in this case where it's exposing an entire industry that is purely based on that. Wealth extraction. That's it. And if that's what your model is as a broker, that's what I'm saying. You're done. You need to pivot. You need to start showing value. It's all out there. All the tools are out there for you to do things. And there's some out there that are doing great, great work. And I'll shout one out right here. BGL, Blue Grace Logistics, bringing stuff into the ERP system and advancing and bringing this stuff. You never hear about them. You know why? Because they're not out there for wealth extraction.

28:04They're in it for the long run. And there's plenty of others that are out there. And there's plenty of new things that are doing it. I'm saying if you're the broker that's out there doing this stuff and you haven't pitted, you better because you're done. The broker, as we know it, is dead.

28:17Malcolm Harris: Absolutely. 60 seconds with this last one. Let's go to Aurora real quick because we saw this from Thomas Wasson. I thought it was a fantastic read. I wanted to get your thoughts real quick, Mike. All right. So Aurora Innovation is planning to run more than 30 ,000 driverless trucks by 2030, the company told analysts and investors at its Analyst and Investor Day out in Dallas last week. All right. So the plan calls for more than$5 billion in revenue that year and a target gross margin of about 60%, according to the company's Investor Day presentation. So they have fully allocated to exit 2026 with 200 driverless trucks in operation, which CFO David Madej said would represent an$80 million revenue run rate.

28:55Malcolm Harris: The company said Aurora Driver has logged more than 500 ,000 driverless miles since commercial launch. I guess my question for you is that, is this going to happen? Do you think, Mike, knowing what you know, being obviously connected to the industry, and I know how you feel about innovation and driverless. I think there's, conceptually, it sounds great. But from an execution standpoint, do you think that they got the horses to get this done? Eventually, yes. On this time frame, absolutely not. They're right here in our backyard, right here. I mean, I'm in Alliance. I'm right by the area here, the tech innovation area and stuff like that, where Hillwood Ventures, et cetera, is providing areas for Aurora to do this, right?

29:39They're right here. They're right out. I could probably hit one with a golf ball. You absolutely could. You know what I'm saying? I mean, you were here, right? We're right in the middle. We're right in a hard all that stuff. Yeah, not at this time frame. Not in this time frame. I mean, I've had this conversation before with like Shannon Breen at Freightvana, right? They were one of the first ones to go, look, look, we're going to have the Freightvana trailers. Remember they said, hey, look, if you see one out in the wild, give us a hit, all that kind of stuff, right? Power only type of brokerage.

30:04They're setting themselves, this is what I'm talking about. They've pivoted or they started out with a pivot to set themselves up for what eventually will be great fleets. And I had this conversation with Ava Barnes from Elvis on their podcast. eventually yeah all this is going to work this time frame now look on investor day on investor day with all this information their stock fell 10 percent

30:31Malcolm Harris: oh that's a telltale sign that man that's beautiful detail recoup okay yeah yeah and by and by the way five by the way the five billion dollar goal yeah that that's a thousand x from what they did last year. Yeah. No, no, no. It's not going to happen. Shoot for the stars and for the moon. Yeah. Yeah. Are they doing great things? Are they on a track with stuff that obviously is really beneficial in certain areas, et cetera, and going to probably take over eventually? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. But not in that time frame. Not in that time frame. Listen, we got a little bit. Not 30 ,000 trucks in the next, what, two years, three years?

31:13Nah, I don't think so.

31:15Malcolm Harris: So, all right. Read more on this now from FreightWaves.com. That was your headlines and an eventful morning so far. So we only can land this plane right. All right. The Cooper is in the building. I'm talking Mr. Bill Cooper. He is about to join me on set right now. He is the vice president of sales at Kooner Fleet Management Solutions. Shout out to Kooner Fleet Management Solutions and joining the show now. Come on up, Mr. Cooper. Again, we got Bill Cooper. It is so good to see you, sir. How are you? Thanks, Malcolm. Great to be here. Great to have you, man. Great to have you. We're going to be joined momentarily by Mr.

31:46Malcolm Harris: Michael Vincent, but how was travel coming in from Maine? And I'm sure you've been doing a lot here recently. Absolutely. Shockingly with the Nor 'easter yesterday, it was a relatively smooth flight. Good. Interesting ways to get here, planes, trains, and automobiles, but happy to be here in Chattanooga. Nice, nice. You spent a lot of time doing this, and we're going to have Mike come in momentarily and get us ready. But tell me, when it comes to, I guess, the evolution in the last few decades, what's changed the most, Bill? Sure. I think data. And as funny as that is, you know, I started my career out of college at Enterprise Rent-A-Car, moving into Enterprise Fleet Management.

32:26That's where I was introduced to Ride Express or WEX. We dabbled in everything from telematics to fuel payments to fleet factoring. And now I'm at Kooner doing on-site fleet and mobile maintenance. But the biggest thing is the data. Instead of it being a reactive environment where you're waiting for a vehicle to break down, waiting for that check engine light, waiting to pass that service interval, now we can get out ahead of it and take care of the vehicle while it's sitting as opposed to waiting for it to break down on the side of the road. That's beautiful.

32:55Malcolm Harris: So you said you started post-college an enterprise rental car? I did. That was my first job out of college. All right. So you've lost a few ties in the vacuum cleaner cleaning out the rental cars. It took me a while to wear white shirts again because I had PTSD from rental car. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, we normally, every single What the Truck episode, we always have Michael Vincent and his Claude creations come into perspective. So, Mike, I want you to take them through it because this one, I saw the details. I'm like, this is nuts. this this one is is actually nuts but i got two things that i really want to say first is did osha require you to use clip-on ties with that vacuum cleaner because if you were you know what i'm saying if you actually tied a tie you were in trouble you know what i'm saying i think it's got to be an osha thing they had to be clip-on ties right i want to i want to i want to grinst the rule they was actually supposed to be for a little while and then i was like i'm not getting on these clipping ties but yes they were supposed to you got some inside information you're creeping me out malcolm is not a clip-on type type of guy i'm telling you that there is no way he's wearing a clip on the other thing is like in a car you know how the check engine light comes on wouldn't pete less people ignore it if it said look you got a ten dollar issue here and it's going to be a thousand if you don't take care of it right because they see that check engine light and go oh shit i ain't got the money for that maybe next month shouldn't it come with like a dollar amount or something like that first, right?

34:25Like you're at$10 now. Absolutely, that's a great idea. You know what I'm saying? Can we work on that? We got AI now. We can figure that out.

34:33Malcolm Harris: We can work on that for sure. Speaking of AI, I can incorporate now your entire life and personality into one picture. And we can provide this for you as well. There it is. Check this out, dog. This is it. I just take your background. I just say, hey, Claude. Describe this guy in a picture. I don't know. Maybe you can make sense of all this stuff, but it looks pretty badass. It does. You notice Denzel Washington driving that truck? I don't know where the hell that came from. I think they probably thought it was me. I thought it was Malcolm.

35:13Now, you're good-looking, Malcolm, but you ain't Denzel. I ain't Denzel. Good-looking, though.

35:18Malcolm Harris: One day, one day. this is fantastic now anytime we we have guests on the show and we see the the claw I mean this is it's so crazy what clock can do absolutely it is wild it is wild um Bill let's talk real quick I mean there's the thing that a fleet hates right is a truck sitting still so with that what is one unexpected breakdown actually cost a fleet beyond just the repair bill because there's so much that really does go absolutely so you know if you think about the truck that breaks down on the side of the road very early on in my career i had a sales territory in the boston market and there was a pretty well-known uh restaurant chain that made their own ice cream yeah and it was august just outside of boston they had a truck broken down on the side of the road refrigerated box truck they had backed and i don't know how they pulled this off but they had a second one backed up to it in the breakdown lane and there were four guys in dress shirts and ties throwing vats and pallets of ice cream from one truck to the other, trying to save as much of that load as possible.

36:21And I thought to myself, that right there epitomizes the impact of a breakdown. You're losing the product. You're losing the route. You're down a truck. You've got four executives from the office who are probably supposed to be doing something else now all on the side of the road. Think of that downstream impact. It's no longer just fixing the truck. You've now got disappointed customers on that route. You've got lost product. You've got lost productivity. So that's how it starts to snowball. Think about any centralized fleet dispatching from a hub and spoke environment, get into a truck at the start of the day, turn the key and nothing happens.

36:53Everything that's been loaded on that truck now has to come off and push to other trucks. Or you have to start calling every single customer that was expecting a delivery and let them know what's happening tomorrow. It's a customer service impact. It's a dispatch impact. And ultimately, if it happens enough, it could impact your ability to renew contracts with your clients. That's a great point. It's a great point. And that's where I was going with this was that ability to renew contracts, right, Bill? Because you're looking at cost of downtime. When we talk about like freight fraud or theft, there's the actual number.

37:27And then there's the real actual number, right? I mean, there's the value of the stuff that's stolen. There's the value of it on the street. but then there's the economic impacts to the rest of the, you know, to our overall economy. And that's the same thing with maintenance, right? I mean, don't you liken it to the same and shouldn't like RFPs say, if you're in a certain industry and you're putting out an RFP, shouldn't you say, Hey, you guys are using Cooner, right? That should be a check. That's our goal. So we got to work that back into the flawed picture.

38:03An RFP where you're using Cooner, right? Because that is a very, very, very, very real thing, right? So, but you're talking about preventative maintenance, but you're also talking about mobile maintenance as well, right? Yes, yes. So, it's not just a case of getting out in front of breakdowns. So, ideally, you know, if you're inspecting the vehicles and taking care of the preventative maintenance, that's great. But ultimately, you know, we specialize in bringing the garage to you. So, you know, we just started with a commercial landscaping company whose fleet comes off the road Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

38:37So they're working Monday through Thursday. We show up on Friday and Saturday to take care of the entire fleet, everything that they need, inspections, PMs, general repairs, check engine lights. They show up on Monday, and it's as if the fleet is all set and ready to go. So no downtime and ultimately no inconvenience for their staffing model or their clients that they're servicing. So mobile, I'm sorry, I thought mobile meant, I thought mobile once they break down, you go out there and fix the truck. But you're talking about going to their yard and doing all the PMs right there. Yeah, Mike, we actually do both.

39:14So we're happy to show up on your yard and take care of everything that's there. So think of it as a rolling garage that pulls right in. And if there's an issue on the road, you know, and that's where it gets kind of dicey, right? You know, you're never breaking down 300 yards from outside your yard. You're breaking down in, you know, the middle of Nebraska at 2 o 'clock in the morning where the closest yard is 1 ,000 miles away. But if we're doing the preventative maintenance and the inspections, we're actually preventing the roadside issues, which are the ones that end up being the most costly.

39:44Malcolm Harris: So, Bill, why do, I guess, organizations fail to execute preventative maintenance at just a consistent level? Because it feels like oftentimes the market has felt is doing this number. Why is it that struggle for consistency when it comes to preventative maintenance? So, Malcolm, I'm going to take you back to the enterprise renter car days, right? So every time that vehicle comes off of rent, you're logging in that ending mileage, and you get that little screen that pops up that says, oh, this car needs a lube oil filter. entire rotation i remember like yesterday but then you're looking at that poor person that's been sitting there for two hours waiting for a car to come back and you're like well they're only going to need it for a day yeah so you rent it back out and you hand them the keys that happens 26 30 times and next thing you know you're seizing an engine it may or may not have happened at a rental branch but um i think that it's ultimately it's it's that schedule and it's that need to always be delivering yeah to to have that ability to say we need to to put this truck truck off schedule just for half a day to take care of what we need to, I think is the tough part.

40:48So it's getting out of that reactive mindset and getting into that proactive or predictive mindset. So when you have a vehicle that's off road for a day and you know that it's going to need something in another 500 hours or a thousand miles, maybe you get a little bit ahead of it. Take care of it while it's sitting idle so that you don't lose the downtime and take that vehicle and drive her off the road.

41:11Malcolm Harris: That was a great explanation. Like, I love that answer. It is. That was a great answer. You looked like you were a little bit stressed when you first brought up the car. Oh, no, when I tell you PTSD, like, man, like, that was the best worst thing in my career ever. It was obvious. It was on your face, bro. I could see it. So, Bill, you know, you mentioned you punch it in there and the computer tells you that, right? And my brain immediately went to, okay, so there's a human and I would do the same thing. Oh, they only going to use it for 24 hours. This is just barely need of it. Right. Or maybe it's going to need it in five miles.

41:48And what immediately came to me was our telematics on an engine. Sometimes the cause of issues because of just that you get that information back and like, but it's probably still good for this. Right. So I think you've got to look at it through multiple lenses. Right. So you think about a typical fleet, they've got a telematics unit, they've got a fuel card they've got a maintenance program they've got an oem maintenance schedule if you take all of that data and push it together that's where you start to come up with a customized maintenance plan for that vehicle you know we we actually service a lumber company out in in las vegas nevada and we recommended to them that they replace their air filters twice as often as the oem suggestion because of the dust that they're constantly going through And it improved the MPGs those vehicles were seeing.

42:38So getting to know the individual use, I think, is your very first question, Malcolm, is what has changed? It's using that data to actually come up with a risk profile per vehicle, per driver. And that ultimately results in more uptime.

42:56Malcolm Harris: I want to stay on that question about data real quick because this is a relationship business. You know this better than anybody, but also there is this increased component of having data-driven decisions. How do you balance the aspect of the human touch, but also technology and kind of combining? Because, I mean, drivers, fleets, they are bombarded with whether it's AI, whether it's data decisions, whether it's technology, whether it's whatever. But then also, you're still a person at the end of the day. At the fabric and core of trucking is the human. How do you balance the two? Well, I think that's, you know, throughout my career, you know, I started in fleet, moved over to SaaS and fintech, and now I'm back in fleet.

43:35And, you know, I've got a fantastic sales team that works for me, and we've talked about the fact that we love this industry because of the human aspect of it. People love to talk and discuss their experiences and what they've learned. And I think when you overlay the human experience and the day-to-day results of being in the trenches and can put some analytical information behind what they feel that they think that they're seeing, that's really where you start to really make a difference for them. But ultimately, I think it's, you know, think of all the paper files that are on your typical, you know, fleet manager desk of all the PMs.

44:15And they just haven't made it to the filing cabinet yet. But to have a button that they can click and they get a single pane of glass on their computer screen that tells them everything that's in that four-foot stack of middle-of folders, I think, is ultimately a great thing for them.

44:29Malcolm Harris: I couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. Yeah. Bills, there's a lot of pressures on our industry, quite obviously. And in the trades, especially, we see a lack of talent, right? And a lack of people entering those trades. diesel mechanics, et cetera, all the different technicians that you need. You got all this new equipment, or you got aging equipment, and you've got expensive parts. You've got lack of technicians. You've got lack of training schools for those that want to be technicians, et cetera. Where do you see the industry going, specifically the fleet maintenance industry going in the next five to 10 years?

45:07Sure. Well, that whole idea of everything becoming more complex is near and dear to my heart because early on in my life, my father gave me the ability to try to restore a 65 Mustang in his garage. And that engine component was big enough I could stand inside it to get a good grip on a wrench when I needed to loosen a bolt. You don't have that now. Now you need a roadmap, a PhD, and probably a chat GPT or Claude on the camera looking over your shoulder to tell you where to go with everything. um so i i think it comes back to um you know that whole idea of supply and demand ultimately when you talk to the fleets that have their own mechanics in in their own maintenance bays they've made an investment and they have to decide if that is truly their their wheelhouse right so i'll you know if i'm a hvac contractor that's national do i really want to be in a garage management platform or do i want to focus on what i do to make sure that i'm delivering to my HVAC clients.

46:10So I think that as you look at the outsource model, that allows you to still have someone who is an extension of your business and truly knows your vehicles without them having to be on staff full time. And I think that's where we're going to go. But I think it's up to companies like Kooner and some of our competitors to ensure that we are constantly training our technicians with the certifications and everything else to make sure that they're ready for the EV vehicles and the autonomous vehicles that we know are coming.

46:38Malcolm Harris: No, for, go ahead, Mike, I'm sorry. Go ahead, brother. I was just going to ask you, do you source new technicians or do you train or do you do an apprentice program? How do you guys bring those? We haven't done an apprentice program yet, but that would be something that I'm sure our head of HR would love to consider. That's fantastic. That's really sick. But yeah, we do train our techs. We source them. Our HR team, I mean, God, we're a 10-year-old company that started with our CEO as our first wrench-turning technician. We grew it to about 60 employees in the first six years, and then the last four have just exploded.

47:15You know, 275 technicians driving around Kuhner trucks all across the U.S., and a handful of technicians full-time embedded and running garages for our clients. so it's it's um you know we're not immune to the idea of a technician shortage you know we're competing for for talent out there as well but yeah um you know once we get them on board we know that they are the face of kooner i mean i can sit with a fleet and and tell them everything that we can do but ultimately it is that technician showing up and becoming an extension of that business and getting to know that fleet and understanding the value that that asset has to their profitability that really wows our clients and gets them to stay with us absolutely

47:56Malcolm Harris: where can we find more information about what you and the entire team are doing at kooner fleet management solution so you know all over our website uh you know kooner fms.com uh you're going to see information about the company we're pretty active on linkedin pretty proud of our uh yes we uh we traverse the uh the us so you'll probably see a few pictures of our sales team and our technicians all over the United States. And that's the best place to find us. Awesome. Bill. Excellent. Thank you so much. Malcolm, thank you. Mike, it was a pleasure. Thank you. You guys are great. Thank you, Bill. Thank you.

48:31Malcolm Harris: And thank you guys for watching the show today. This has been a fantastic episode. I appreciate you guys rocking with us through our headlines, through the entry. Michael Vincent absolutely came, saw, and conquered. That's my brother from another. But before we get out of here, you know what we do, man. It's the road ahead. Let's check out who we're talking to on Wednesday. Matthew Winster. He is a chief economist at Breakthrough. He is going to be here to talk all about tech and fuel. We got some stuff up our sleeves for Matthew, man. And then also Jefferson Barr, chief marketing officer at NetStock, is also going to be in the building.

49:05Malcolm Harris: You guys hear the music. I'm not saying you got to go home, but it's time to get out of here. That's all for us here at What the Truck. Peace and love. We will see you on Wednesday. Holla at you. Bye bye. Bye bye.

49:48Thank you.