How a Georgia Tax Preparer Scammed Independent Truckers in a 54-Count Indictment

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0:30Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the fastest 44 minutes in freight. Word to Jayden Daniels. I'm Malcolm Harris. Kicking off a beautiful Monday. We lost a minute. I'm with Michael Vincent. Mike, what's up, dog? Dog, we have never talked for only 45 minutes ever. Ever. I'm lying. I am straight up lying. So we are not going. It's the longest 45 minutes in freight. In freight ever, ever, ever. Look at this graphic real quick, man. We're going to put this out on social media today. But out of respect for Jaden Daniels, man, Heisman Trophy winner out of LSU and quarterback of the Washington Commanders, we're going to only kick it for 44 minutes.

1:12You guys have been seeing the social media trend around. Cody made me literally spit out my water on Friday when he sent this over via Slack. And, yeah, man, so I'm excited to get into the fastest 44 minutes of freight. All right? So it's going to be a good time. It's going to be a real good time. Mike, how was your weekend, man? It's fantastic, brother. How about yourself? It was good, man. I really didn't do much. I played Monopoly with some friends of mine, and man, I got taken to the business. You did? Yeah. I play with my family. I play with my family to get mad at me because I win. It just got out of hand real fast.

1:51See, I don't take it easy even on my kids. You know what I mean? My 12-year-old daughter, nah. taking it i pride myself on do you have a specific like uh like a color shade that you like to to target is it like the the dark blue or the light blue or the orange what where is that for you so the best uh um really are what are what are they i can't even remember the names of them though dude yeah that's okay but like park park place and boardwalk are they suck they're nobody ever lands there it's very rare that you land on those things right it's it's just past it's right before and right after parking free parking right yeah and and then the the corner just opposite of it over there i think it's i think marvin gardens and ventnor and that type of stuff over there anyways yeah those are those are i go for and railroads i love the railroads i take the railroads oh see i'm not a railroads guy and that's probably why i didn't have success because i kept landing on railroads and it was really it was tearing me up quite a bit if you get all four you can rip people up pretty good hey 200 a pop 200 a pop telling you you hit all four of those and that's a night at uh boardwalk let's look at what we got today on this incredible show for you guys this is a gnosis powered show of course sponsored by gnosis freight we'll get to them in a minute but jake hoffman their chief technology officer is going to be in the house all right everybody's talking about ai and logistics but jake's here to talk about what's underneath it the data itself so we're going to get into why fragmented messy data is the real problem that shippers need to solve before ai can actually deliver value so i'm excited to get down to the nitty-gritty and the details with jake it's going to be a phenomenal episode and uh excited he's the man he is the man Can't wait to see him, bro.

3:45Can't wait to see him. Hey, dude. What's up? Dude, Tommy John, man. Tommy John? Tommy John, he died, 83 years old. Are you serious? He died over the weekend, man. Tommy John. Do we got a picture of him? Did we get that picture? There he is. I think we got that picture in there. Tommy John. Everybody knows him for, you know, the experimental surgery on his elbow, on his left elbow there that has really saved the career of many, many people. And he was the guy who went into it experimentally, right? But let me check out the numbers, though. Solid. It's not because Tommy John Hall of Famer, not because of his elbow surgery.

4:23Right. I mean, check it out. 288 wins. Only 25 more pitchers have that. 3.3 ERA. 2 ,200 strikeouts. Four-time all-star. Consecutive 20-game win seasons with the Yankees. Dude was a baller. You could pitch. You could throw that. Dude was a baller. Yeah. He for sure was nice on the bump. I had honestly no idea how big of a deal Tommy John was outside of the surgery. Like, this is me coming to you vulnerable, being like, yo, like, I had no idea. And I pride myself on knowing ball. And I learned something today. Well, that's why I brought it for you, bro. It was a little gift to you, my friend Malcolm.

4:58Hey, without you, we wouldn't be successful. I want you to know that. My brother, Malcolm. Yeah, no, Tommy John was the man. And you know what's crazy about it? What's up? It's like they used to say, like, it was season or, you know, like, And I don't know why, but they would talk about Tommy John. Oh, man, he needs Tommy John. It's like career ending. And I don't know why. Because why would they say that? Because the dude won, of his 228 games, he won 164 of them after the surgery. And he was the first one, obviously, ever to get it. It's named after him. Why was it ever considered? You know what I'm saying?

5:32It saved his career. And there's a lot of players that go get it before they need it. Because it strengthens their elbow. No, for sure. I'm looking right now at the MLB's top Tommy John success stories, and it's given us Jake DeGrom obviously had Tommy John. Justin Verlander had Tommy John surgery. Shohei Ohtani actually had Tommy John surgery. Yeah, Shohei Ohtani's been pitching for, what, a year and a half? Yeah. Fubal had the same surgery. Chris Dale had it. John Smoltz. Yeah, so this is – I did not – Steven Strasburg, I remember him having surgery because he was like – Yeah, sure. the best of the best coming out of high school.

6:14He was supposed to be the face of MLB. Yeah, 100%. 100%. It is absolutely... Maybe some people's careers were over after having to have it, I guess. But even the first dude ever to get it, he won 164 of his 228 games after the surgery. So it's not like he sucked for three years and gave up after he had it. No, no, no, no. It shows you kind of how modern medicine and technology has really, like, evolved and kind of made, like, these death sentence of injuries, like, come back. Like, I'll give you another example before we get to the business. But, like, George Kittle tore his Achilles in January.

6:53He's a tight end for the St. Louisville 49ers. Yeah. He is on track to play in September for their first regular season game. So it's just different right now. It's different right now. yeah no the Achilles is it used to be I mean it was ever since the bible right yeah I mean so on your Achilles 10 is pretty bad well Achilles isn't from the bible but you know what I'm saying yeah no I saw I get you I saw your Achilles heel it uh yeah yeah it's not good not good are we gonna talk about gnocis gnocis or what let's get to gnosis freight all right because this show would not be possible without oh yeah no gnosis freight not gnocis gnocis That's a reefer carrier up in New York, I think.

7:38Yeah, I see what you did there. And again, if you're still checking websites, copying container data into spreadsheets and chasing updates through email chains, you need Gnosis. It's an AI operating system for global logistics. One platform to track every container, automate execution, and protect your margins across the full container lifecycle. Gnosis has saved millions upon millions of dollars for different clients of theirs, and they can do the same for you. All you have to do right now is just check them out at gnosisfreight.com, book a demo, and make sure that you tell them the guys at What The Truck sent you.

8:09Again, that is Gnosis Freight. I love it. We appreciate it. And we are momentarily going to get to Jake to talk to us all about Gnosis Freight and the inner workings of what it really means under the surface. So I'm excited to have that conversation. Before we get to that, though, we always have to talk about the biggest party of the fall happening here in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Of course, the future of Freight Festival at The Signal is going to be one heck of a time. I cannot wait for this one. All right. There's going to be keynotes. There's going to be demos. There's going to be conversation and networking events.

8:45There's going to be so much that's happening under the roof at The Signal. You do not want to miss out. All right. Tickets are available right now. So make sure that you guys are checking it out. If you are looking for some cost savings, I got you. You know, I'm not going to leave you empty handed. All right. Just use the promo code take 20. That is T-A-K-E 2-0. Yeah. Located on your screen for 20 % off for admission into F3, the future of freight festival. That's going to be taking place again in Chattanooga, Tennessee at the Signal October 27th and the 28th. All right. So that is going to be a fantastic, fantastic time.

9:20Yeah. Go get the tickets now. take your 20 you can use it to take me and malcolm out for some milkies and then maybe some chattanooga whiskey afterwards you know what i'm saying i would take you up on that offer if you are with the guys from with the truck we will talk to you guys about tommy john surgery and some logistics too we can do that until you throw up we'll talk about it man until ad nauseum as they say ad nauseum as we say all right let's talk about the fbi you want to do that mike we haven't talked headlines in a minute we've been we've been overdue we've been really guest heavy i want to get back to what we do this is today's fbi let's talk about it looking at this over the weekend this came from phil brink this is an fbi case all right they are currently seeking truck drivers nationwide who may be victims in a 54 count tax fraud case all right so with this federal prosecutors are claiming that through this word of mouth referral this georgia tax prepared gang clients through the trucking industry.

10:21All right. They claim that this exposed at least 26 people to an extensive tax scheme. Most identify clients working as self-employed truck drivers. The FBI now wants other potential victims to come forward. So this happened in Walton County. All right. Diane Marie Poe, she owns Genual Financial Services. Her company offered bookkeeping, payroll management, tax prep, and filing assistance. All right. A federal grand jury returned a 54 count indictment against poe this week the august 12 filing includes a whopping 32 bank fraud charges and 14 payroll related tax offenses additional accusations cover corporate returns false submissions and government program theft uh they have not announced a date for her court appearance but i saw this and i was just thinking i was like she is going down all right the bank fraud count yeah she she going to jail she going to jail now.

11:14I mean, this is a maximum potential sentence of 30 years per count. And then federal program that allows 10 years per charge. This is ridiculous, Mike. She's got like 32 counts, right? She like next on 30 for 30, dude. I mean, this is a 30 for 30. If I've ever seen it. I mean, she was scamming independent truck drivers and is now, I mean, you got to think at least 26. I mean, she's done. I mean, this is a grief. It seems like Phil should start a 30 for 30 thing. You know, Forbes has got their 30 under 30. The ESPN has got their 30 for 30. You know what I'm saying? No, I don't know. Phil Briggs should be like 30 per 30.

11:58That's crazy, man. I was just like, man, I mean, he's going to jail. Did she like hang out behind a big rig at Matt's going, Hey, driver, come on over here. I got to help you with your taxes. Did she put like the yard signs up next to the mats or going to the TIA or something like that? I was just like, yo, hey. How do you become a trusted word of mouth tax attorney? It just doesn't seem like it flows right, right? I mean, look, dude, this, we're going to start Sunday. We're going to have Monday, Monday school. You know, Sunday, you went to Sunday school. I went to Sunday school, of course. Yeah, I know.

12:33I know Malcolm did. Yeah. Yeah, Mrs. Malcolm did not let you not go to her. She was not playing. My mom was not playing, yeah. You sat in your bedroom with the TV real low, watching Bugs Bunny going, I hope she doesn't know it's that weird. Oh, yeah, yeah. I was watching Rocket Power and Nickelodeon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Malcolm's time to go to, oh, rats. I was like, man, mom, why? Malcolm Isaac Harris, get your butt in here. Isaac. you guys can check out this article um you know put it in perspective in short in 15 words or less this lady she's 62 she committed tax fraud we're probably more than likely not going to see the light of day again so drivers drivers proverbs 18 15 the heart of the prudent acquires knowledge and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge yeah you know what that you know what the stupid do they listened to the lady behind the big rig saying, psst, come here.

13:32I can help you with your taxes. Don't do that shit. Yeah, don't do that at all. Don't do that at all. This next story is very timely because he is actually going to be on the show on Wednesday to talk about it, and I'm excited to have him back on the show. Ooh, the guy who stole it all? No, the guy who's talking about who stole it all. I'll talk about Mr. Scott Cornell. He's going to be on the show this upcoming Wednesday talking about this data center freight stolen as thieves are testing this bump and run tactic all right so scott he has confirmed that cargo thieves deliberately struck security escorts protecting two high value technology shipments all right the drivers then continued with each load instead of stopping for help he of course serves as the evp of crime and theft at spg cargo and logistics and he's with uh top of americas uh as the uh chair there and spent more than 30 years basically he described this bump and run method during an interview on the freight watch pod with Phil Brink.

14:31And basically, they link both successful crimes to the failure of carrier verification. All right, this quote from him that we'll get to on Wednesday, I just want to preview this, but we've seen big concentration around the theft of high tech loads. All right, he identified cargo intended for data centers as a leading target. Individual cases ranged from 2 million to 38 million. And then he cited depths valued at approximately 8, 12, 14, 20, and 24. All right. So when you add all these up, guys, this is a pretty significant impact. Mike, whenever I saw this one, I was like, this is, this is crazy because these are real rings going after these real high-tech shipments.

15:07And it seems like it's happening day after day, after day, after day. It is. And there's a couple interesting things here. First, I got to point out that the crimes add up to 118 million out of 111. So I just want to point that out for Phil. Look at you. You're a mathematician. I am. I just, you know, math, it's difficult.

15:32It's, it's, I know I'm an idiot. This is the real story here. I mean, is they're mixing high tech with the golden age of theft. You know what I'm saying? I mean, this is Goodfellas type of shit mixed mixed with with, you know, high tech understanding and digging into the through, like we call the windows and the chinks of the walls of Jericho to get into the city. Right. To figure out where where that weakness is. And then it's relying on good old fashioned just laziness. You know what I'm saying? From these people. I mean, it's absolutely insane because, look, these guys, they take out the escorts and then the truck driver's in cahoots with the people taking out the truck driver.

16:18You know what I'm saying? One thing I saw in here. The truck just drives off, right? Because, I mean, they're protecting the criminal from the criminals. Hello? This is good, fellas. This is usual suspects, like in the beginning. I mean, you know what I'm saying? You know how we have, of course, our industry, right? It's the supply chain. There's 90 % of it is really good. It's pick up at point A, deliver to point B. Scott mentioned something in here that I'm just like, man, I really didn't think about. There is a network of dirty trucks, of dirty organizations that really are running businesses that are criminal enterprises with the same.

17:05It's weird. It's crazy when you really think about it. Are we talking about CDL schools? No. Oh, man. Look at you. Sorry. Not all of them. I know one that's really good. I know a really good one, CDL Spartan training. Spartan CDL training. You got to plug that. I got to plug it. Because there are a bunch of shady characters in here. And with all kidding aside, They absolutely are graduating people and placing legitimate drivers into the and waiting until the right thing is there. Right. They're like Trojan horses. Yeah, for sure. It kind of feels like electing your, you know, your congressman or your senator.

17:44Yeah, no, it absolutely does. Is this a matter of time before they ripping you off? You're welcome. It came out over the weekend, guys. And, of course, we are going to actually have Scott Cornell be here on the show on Wednesday to kind of give us a full breakdown of perspective of it. I'm excited for that one. Here's the laziness in it, Malcolm, just real, real quick. Here's the laziness, right? It says none of these actually, look, it said they changed these classifications to like from data center equipment to general electronics to freight of all kinds, right? In order to skip this stuff through there.

18:20That's actually in the article, right? Now, if that's true, which I have to believe that it's true. I don't profess that any of these guys are liars. But look at how this is how bad that is. Zero of those are actual freight classifications. Anybody in freight for more than a month knows that there's no such thing as a load of data center equipment. No, no. What does that mean? Are they benches? Are they chairs? Are they? There's no such thing. That's a very big thing to put on like a bill of lading, too. No, you can't put that. That's not a national motor freight class. You can't do that. It's not an HIS thing.

18:57It's not getting on a commercial bill of lading and going across the ocean either. It's not. No. Freight of all kinds is also not. That's a tool for pricing. Yes. Okay. That's a pricing tool. It was used for good things, but now it's bastardized. If you're an LTL pricing, you know what I'm talking about. It was good. Now it's just bastardized and it's bullshit. so I mean again let's go back to Sunday school dude Proverbs 19 2 zeal without knowledge is not good how much more will hasty feel feet missed the way and that's what it is hey I'm just here for a job and let's just pass this through because if they're letting those type of descriptions go through on freight duh no kidding you're getting ripped off for sure no I could not agree more I will say that um you know with this next story I'm very intrigued about your opinion because we oftentimes talk about car theft, but not necessarily when it comes to seizures, meaning in Canada, like the border from and into Canada.

19:57We don't really talk about it much. I saw this story over the weekend pop up, and I was like, wow, this number is crazy. All right, so three USMIs entered Canada carrying nicotine products worth nearly 6.6 million Canadian within four days. Officers intercepted all three loads at Ontario's Blue Water Bridge. The seizures included this is crazy 61 758 vapes plus thousands of kilograms of nicotine pouches all right investigations remain ongoing but i'm just wondering why this happened they would not disclose disclose the trigger closer inspections of the commercial vehicles the agency uses several risk-based indicators when deciding whether freight requires additional examination and this unfortunately led to the seizure of all three shipments.

20:46This is wild. Wouldn't this be tax fraud? Why do you mean that? Well, I mean, they're bringing it in. You have to pay duties and taxes on that shit coming in, right? This is true. I mean, this is not like, you know, it's not contraband. I mean, nicotine and vapes are legal in Canada, right? Yeah, they are. I'm trying to understand. Yeah, it's not a drug scale. I mean, why would you do this when you can get them? They're pretty much dirt cheap. I mean,$61 ,000 for$6.6 million, they're not really expensive. Within thousands of kilograms and nicotine, this is not like high-value stuff. It's probably going to legit.

21:24It was trying to get to legitimate outlets to sell it and just avoid the tax on the stuff. You know what I'm saying? Or the duty. But it does remind me of one of the best shows on TV is Trailer Park Boys. if you know you know trailer park boys dude that's what this freaking reminds me of look check this out like if you know this if you know this episode you're laughing your butt off right now see that train that's the Swayze Express so the trailer park boys are these guys that live in the trailer park in Canada and they stole a train from a model train from Patrick Swayze in order to in order to move hash oil south from Canada into the United States in exchange for uh non-tax cigarettes that they were smuggling it in from Sebastian Bach of Skid Row.

22:12Dude, I mean, so yeah, it's definitely. I mean, when I read this, I was like, what is Sebastian Bach? God bless him. Is he involved in this somehow? Is there a train? Where's the hash oil going back south? What's going on here? Because it doesn't make any sense. Why are you wasting your time smuggling$6.6 million worth of vapes? and there's such a lack of information around the the the seizure of all three shipments and that's what i wanted your take on it's like well i mean obviously it's because an investigation's ongoing that's why there's a lack of information but or maybe there's a plea day look we'll plead guilty if you don't put our names out there because this is embarrassing you think it's like a major or something like hey we're embarrassed i don't know we're embarrassed i don't know i was i was very very curious about this one this came out over the weekend too and you can check it out right now on FreightWaves.com.

23:04And speaking of, we're going to have all major news talked about today. Obviously, you have your morning minute that has taken place that is already out on social media, so make sure you check that out. And then FreightWaves today, you're going to have Craig Fuller and Julie Vandekamp. They are going to be on today at noon Eastern. It's going to be exciting. They're going to have some great guests. I'd love to hear Craig's take on this article if he's got the time to look into it. Because it doesn't seem like it's theft to me. It seems like a real entity was trying to. Yeah. I agree. That's what I thought.

23:37That's what I thought. I agree. I agree. I agree. Now let's get to Gnosis Freight. Of course, Gnosis has been the primary sponsor of what the truck for the last two months. And without them and the great team there, we would not be able to do what we do. So the Hoffman has officially landed. All right. Mr. Jake Hoffman. I see what you did there. What? Jake, you see what I did there, man? I had to serve it up. I did. What's up, man?

24:05I don't think Jake knows what happened. Look, he's speechless because he's got the Naki's. He's got a bowl of Naki's right in front of him that he can't wait to start dishing out to us, doesn't he? The Gnosis Naki's. Jake, I don't know if you got audio. There he is. We got him. We got him now. All right, perfect, perfect. Jake, what's happening? How are you? Welcome to What the Truck. Thank you, guys. I'm just sitting here fascinated by all the stories you're sharing. I literally, like, I was sitting there taking notes. My roommate had Tommy John back in his college baseball days. No kidding. The data center thing.

24:40That's a crazy amount of money. That's the most money I've ever heard of in Freight. So fascinating. I could sit here and listen to you guys all day. That's awesome. We appreciate you for just being here and listening to the show. I mean, this is kind of what we do, man. We love to talk about things that are really, really wild and put a different perspective on it. between Mike and myself. We do. We talked Tommy John. Let's talk about you for a second, Mike. You said you did a little research about Jake. Take it away, man. I research on everybody, bro. So, listen, Jake, I couldn't find any dirt on you, really, that we could share on TV.

25:16Well, I'll talk to you about it later and see if we want. Yeah, we'll see if we really want to expose that. But I did find – so you're an Auburn grad, right? You went to Auburn. Right. Yeah, War Eagle. Yeah, War Eagle. And so sticking with that, most people don't understand where War Eagle came from, right? Because of the Auburn Tigers. They didn't understand where War Eagle came from. But I'm reading here from this. Do you know the story, Malcolm? I do not know the story. Okay. I think we got a picture of the story, right? Maybe. I don't know. There it is. So check it out. All right. No, that's not really the story.

25:56It wasn't really a bowl of gnosis knockies, but it's in, so Auburn met Georgia on the football field in 1892, and a Civil War veteran was in the stand, supposedly, and he brought with him an eagle. At those times, I guess you could bring an eagle pet on your shoulder or something like that into the stadium, supposedly. That's where the story starts to fall apart for me. But during the, he had found it on the battlefield like 30 years earlier or something like this. But according to witnesses during the game the eagle broke free and was circling the stadium as auburn marched down the field in a nice slow steady march scored the game-winning touchdown and it's been war eagle ever since jake is that a true story were you there can you verify that story i was not there but i can verify according to my sources true story and you think is when the eagle is circling around the stadium, everybody's going, oh, it's the War Eagle.

26:56And so then that's what Auburn fans would do. And the stadium is a War Eagle. So that's kind of it. Yeah, right. Gotcha. So they weren't chanting War Eagle. They were going, oh, it's the War Eagle. That's right. And then it just gradually, we beat Georgia, which is a huge deal for us. Hasn't happened in quite some time now. But it's a big deal for us to beat Georgia. Maybe since 1897. Who knows? It feels like it. It hasn't been that long. I did watch this a couple times. It hasn't been that long, but it does feel like it's been forever. So it has nothing to do with Gnocchi's. It has nothing to do with the bowl of...

27:38No, but I am enjoying it. I saw your little bio at the bottom of the screen a second ago. It said, big Gnocchi guy. So that's awesome. I didn't see that. That's awesome. I will say that you guys just got a great football coach named Alex Golish. And he is going to make Auburn competitive in every single football game they play for the rest of eternity. So he was. All right. So I want to hear why. Why do you think so? Because I have my. Yeah. So I have firsthand knowledge. We went to Tennessee and I saw Alex Golish just the entire time at Tennessee. and Tennessee's offense is completely different versus what it is now.

28:21And Alex Golish is the reason. I mean, it felt like any time Tennessee had the ball, they were going to score at any given time. And I think that you can recruit at Auburn. I think Auburn's a great place. I literally flipped a coin. If I did not go to Tennessee, I more than likely would have ended up at Auburn. It was that close. I was going to be the marching band there. So what I tell you, you got a great coach. you're not going to beat Georgia this year, but you're going to compete for the rest of time. Well, I hope so. I appreciate that. And maybe we won't beat them this year. We should have beat them last year.

28:54A whole separate conversation. Oh, yeah. We can talk about that. Let's talk data. Let's talk about the reason you're here. For those that are unfamiliar with Gnosis Freight, Jake, I want you to talk about Gnosis and then, honestly, your path to Gnosis Freight. How did you end up here? And give us kind of the back story about you as well as your organization. Well, I came here. Austin, our CEO, started the company and he convinced me to join a long time ago whenever I was about to go to Chicago and be a quantitative options trader. He convinced me to come into this world of logistics instead. And the rest is history.

29:34But our product as a whole, we track international shipping containers around the world for our freight customers. Visibility and execution, super important to make the caveat of execution as well. And the big thing we do is the data is great. We get data from ocean carriers, from satellites, from the terminal operating systems themselves, from the rail carrier. And we join all this data together and make sense of the chaos that is data for international shipping containers. but really more than that probably what we do is we kind of like put engineers at the front and they are like our solutions engineers is what we call them they're customer account managers and we go into organizations and get data from them out of their erp system or spreadsheets or whatever they're doing and then we kind of like enable that process change to unlock being able to use our software because we're like kind of consultants in a way that help them take advantage of it.

30:30And I think that's a big thing that we do super well is it's not just, hey, here's our software and the data is really good. It's we make sure that you get value out of it because we bring engineers to the table to work with your team and make sure the software works. That makes a lot of sense. That is a great point because I've always argued data for the sake of data is not, it's useless. Why gather it and report it if you're not going to do anything with it? All you're doing is muddying the water and creating noise. So actionable data, I guess, is what you want. And most data is actionable, but you got to know what to do with it.

31:06And that's where you come in with it as well, right? There's a lot of disparate sources of the data that you're collecting, right? How do you filter through those when they conflict? Because they're going to conflict, right? So how do you filter and get to a confidence level of reality for your customers? There's some that are like observed versus like a system is what I like to use. So like, we rely on like the satellite data of like, hey, the ship is here and you like track the ship to tell us when a vessel arrives instead of the ocean care saying like, hey, it arrived yesterday. Well, when it arrived, it might have been sitting off the coast anchored and it's not actually going to pull up to the dock until three or four days from now.

31:58And so if you get arrived, that doesn't mean anything to you if it's anchored off the coast. Right. And so I think there's one of 120 in San Pedro Harbor has not arrived. That's the example we always use. And that's where like our data, we had like, you know, arrival and then a birth. And the birth is like the terminals are all like picking and choosing out of all the 120 vessels that are out there, which one are we going to bring in? And when are we going to unload your cargo next? Right. So that's like a differentiator. And then oftentimes there's like a ground source of truth of, or there's like an operating system that is like what's actually happening.

32:33And then the other data sources are like a derivative of that. And the example would be like the date that a container actually gets unloaded from a ship. like when the crane actually picks it up and pulls it off and puts it in the yard, you can get that singular data point from the terminal operating system itself or the ocean carrier or like a third party, maybe a visibility portal, like the terminal, something, whatever. And what we do in that case is like, in the case of the ocean carriers telling you when it got off, they're only telling you that because the terminals send it to them and then they relay it to you or relay it to their website or whatever it is.

33:10And so there's always like a key like operating person. That's the first person to get that data. And we try to do our best to go to that source every single time. The example I give of that is like, if you're like tracking your package on Amazon, and it's like, hey, it's going to get here on Tuesday, we'll tell you it's going to get there on Tuesday. But we'll also tell you like, hey, it's in a plane coming from, you know, LA to Chicago, and it's on this plane. And here's where it is crossing the country. And then when it gets on a truck and it's going to come to your house, instead of just telling you it's going to get there tomorrow, we'll tell you, hey, it's here's where the truck is right now.

33:47And here's the ETA to the next place that it's going. So I go to a lot of like first party data to kind of put it all together and give our customers way more visibility than just that high level. It's going to get here on this day. Jake, what happens when two systems are technically giving you data about the same shipment, but they're telling you two completely different things? Happens all the time. And I think you can measure over time which one's more correct. So what actually happened and what can you compare to? Which one got the right data faster? So there's accuracy, completeness, and latency, like the three different ways that we measure data.

34:27So accuracy is like, is it right? Completeness, did you get the milestone in general? And then latency, how long did it take from when it happened until you actually getting that data point? And we can evaluate all those different systems on a normal cadence. to, hey, for the past month, this particular terminal in LA is terrible about reporting data correctly. So then we might use different data sources. And we have kind of a layer above all these different data sources that's continuously evaluating that and then telling us and our system which one to use for that. It's important to always do that and evaluate the different data sources over time for reliability, latency, and all the other metrics I just mentioned for sure.

35:09You've got to be running through a ton of different algorithms to groom the data as it comes in, because there's a lot of delay and catch up and stuff like that. Right. Because not everything is linked by satellite. Not everything is linked by cellular and not everything is reported on time through a scanning system or through an update on a manifest for a train or whatever all that happens to be. So you've got literally every type of data, digital sources, manual sources. I wonder if you actually, do you have a fax machine where you're actually getting fax data and then somebody's entering it?

35:43Because, I mean, there's so many different players to link this together that I would love to get into that network on how you do that. But because it's got to be incredibly impressive to gather all that stuff internationally, especially the different sources from like, you know, rural China all the way to manufacturing in the United States. Got to be huge. But you got this visibility. Fantastic. I know where it is. But can I do anything? That's the key is what can I do with it, right? I mean, I'm in a problem, but okay, now what do I do? That's right. Yeah. And so that's where the visibility versus execution, we've always tried to be execution first.

36:26We actually only do the visibility because we tried to buy the visibility data from other people in the market forever. And we found that there wasn't one single source of truth that you could really trust. And so we kind of set out probably 2021. I convinced Austin, our CEO, that we should do it. We were originally against it because we didn't want to be just visibility and data. We wanted to be the execution layer. But we realized it was super important for us to kind of own that infrastructure to make sure that the execution worked. And it's the same thing when I talk about AI and what AI is doing in freight and all the cool advancements with that.

37:03If AI is going to like automate tasks and make decisions, then it's got to be good data underlying. If the vessel arrival thing that I just talked about a little bit ago when I was actually, and you mentioned as, you know, anchored off the coast of San Pedro. if you used AI to automate something like that that said the vessels arrived, what if you sent 10 trucks to go pick up containers? AI sent 10 trucks to pick up containers because it says the vessels arrived and it actually hasn't. And so that's an important piece. We decided it was super important to get the data right first and then do the execution part of it.

37:35We do a couple of different things with that. Actually tendering loads. right is like and most of our customers that use us for this are the large shippers the the bco is the beneficial cargo owners as we call them um that they have you know thousands of containers arriving on any month they have some contracts with drage carriers individually some spot and so on and we actually execute with the data of like hey i'm going to take half the containers coming into la this week and give them to this drage carrier and then half and give them to this one, we electronically integrate with the DRAGE carrier, or if they can't, then it is we automate this entire email process with the official PDF that says, hey, this is the actual official delivery order for this container to be delivered to this location.

38:23And so instead of just making the data better and giving our customer a spreadsheet of like, hey, here's all the stuff that's happening, well, there's still some action that has to be taken with that data as good as it could be. And we've tried to go a step beyond providing that information, but actually executing things. That's because when people are taking information, they're always doing something with it. And we're trying to get more and more in the weeds of doing those things. So that tendering and actual drayage load is just one example. We also have like invoice auditing. So auditing invoices as they come in against those contracts or organizing everything at origin.

38:58So actual purchase order management of like which freight forward or ocean carrier to book with. There's all these decision points that come based on the data being better, that we work with our customers individually to help them make those decisions and actually execute things instead of just giving them a bunch of data to look at, as you already articulated. Yeah. I guess Gene Soroka could have used you guys when he was going from ship to ship to find the toys for Christmas. Remember that? if he was using no if he was using gnosis it probably would have saved him some time yeah it would have so um it really what shippers what should they be what should they be asking me what what should they be looking like um if you're an ai vendor how you walk them through that that process right because i mean ai hallucinates right it gives you a question i i use ai in a bunch of different ways and if you i i kind of train it look i'm not looking for bs don't give me the bs so i've kind of got grok and perplexity and those that will say look i don't know because i bust its butt every time it does right so it understands what i'm what i'm looking for yeah no i do i said no that's complete bullshit get what are you doing and it'll go yeah Yeah, you're right.

40:23I said, well, then stop doing that. As I re-I, oh, you were so right. Yeah, let me, let me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. I mean, yeah, just anything that, anything that AI tells you, if you just say, no, you're wrong, it'll go, you're, you're right. I've lied. It'll never disagree with you. But how do you fix that, dude? How do you, how do you fix that? I mean, I think, you know, we've already talked about the data and how important it is as an input to the AI doing anything, right? And that's important. I think for any shipper or carrier, freight forwarder, anybody in freight at all, in order to take advantage of AI, you want to get as much information to it as possible, right?

41:05So the data piece is important for the data to be correct, but also your contextual information. And that information oftentimes lives in probably in emails, probably in spreadsheets, and then also whatever internal system. And so something that we've had a ton of conversations with our customers on recently is we do so much work to get data out of their internal systems, as in like, we have to get automated Excel reports out of SAP or SAP being the best of those old AS400 systems, green screens, whatever that's like the information they need to run their business, that if they want to take advantage of AI and do really cool things with it, that information needs to be in the context of it.

41:49So just integration with like their TMS, their ERP and all that kind of stuff is how you keep that hallucination, give them the actual feedback on what they should be doing. Right? That's right. Yeah. I mean, because if you're trying to make decisions about purchase orders with AI, but the only way you can tell your AI about orders is you got to go query your green screen system internally and see what's in that purchase order and then send it to it, well, that kind of defeats the whole purpose. You got to figure out how to get that data in an AI-ready data layer, cloud database, whatever, so that it all works.

42:23Yeah, I'm imagining that if you're hooking into Gnosis and you're integrating with all that information that is out there, you're instantly getting that feedback as to what your decision-making should be or options are instead of receiving your information and then mixing it inside and going through the process of trying to figure out what to do, you're actually advising through your system, hey, here's the best options for you at this particular moment in time based on what we're seeing, where your inventory in motion is. Because that's what you're really tracking, right? Is that right? Yeah.

42:58And I think that's what I just said is try to get the data AI ready, so to speak, is we do that for a lot of our customers because in order for those decisions to be made about, let's use the example of like which container to pick up first, we're going to know which PO is in that container because we figured out through like a email of a commercial invoice or a packing list of like what comes from origin. If it's coming from say China to the West coast, well somewhere in China, they generated a PDF that said, here's what we loaded in that container. And we parse through that email AI and we put it in our customers platform and say, this is what's in this container.

43:36And then we can marry that up with their internal ERP system of like, hey, this purchase order is oversold, right? It's like we've already, we have low inventory in the warehouse or low inventory at stores or everybody's buying it or whatever. And we can just automatically know those things and market is like, hey, this is the priority container. This is what you guys should send your delivery order on first. You should send the DRAGE carrier to go pick it out first because you're stitching together all those disparate pieces of information. Jake, we're actually at 44 minutes. Jaden Daniels is making us get up out of here.

44:12But before we get us out of here, I want to ask for those looking to incorporate AI more so into their business, specifically from the shipper side, where can they reach out to you, Jake, as well as the rest of the team at Gnosis Freight? Yeah, I think our website, you guys already said, our website's great. Submit the form on there or reach out to me. I set up meetings and have conversations with people pretty much every day on just like random ideas I'm interested in. I'm super fascinated right now with US customs and how those systems work and HCS classification. So when you guys were talking about the data center stuff and how it was classified as freight earlier, my wheels were turning on that.

44:52So I'm super interested in talking to everybody in the industry all the time because I think apart from Gnosis, like developing products and hopefully that help people and maybe we get paid money for it, maybe we don't, but it's just fascinating that there's still so much stuff to figure out out there. Oh, man. That we're continuously fascinated by and want to be a partner to figure those things out. I absolutely love it. Jake Hoffman, CTO at NOSA Straight. Jake, thank you so much for being here. And War Eagle, sir. We'll definitely see you here very soon, man. Let's go. Thank you, guys. Yes, sir.

45:24I appreciate you guys for being here today and joining the show with Jake, our headlines, and of course, He's the main. Michael Vincent and Malcolm Harris. Let's look at the road ahead before we get out of here for your Wednesday because we got a triple dipper in the room. All right. Representing Westport Fuel Systems, Dan Selle, their president and CEO, as well as Jim Arthurs, their senior strategic advisor, talking all about Westport and fuel, getting into that. And then Scott Cornell to talk his story, man, that we covered earlier. That is it for us. It's been real. It's been fun. It's been real fun.

45:57We will see you guys on Wednesday. Peace and love. Talk to you soon. Peace and love, everybody.

46:15We'll be right back.