E26: Ex-Kraken MD: Secrets to Building Fintech Giants

25:24You have a lot of good quality data points. you have a pretty okay judgment that kind of improves year on year or even more frequently. And that allows you to make bets that carry inherently risk. But just because you're able to look at it from the right perspective and minimize its risk, it allows you to be set up for success. So yeah, I was lucky. But then as you know, and almost as nice quote, as you've mentioned, You also need to help your luck a little bit and make sure that you understand as much as you can when you're an industry or a company, when you're making a decision. And then, yeah, minimize the odds of failing.

26:05So there's always a risk with every decision you make. There was always a risk with every decision that I've made when it comes to companies that I've joined. There was a pure randomness element to it. But there was also element of me being, you know, looking at your code that I was prepared and worked for meeting this luck thing.

26:27What are your key learnings from being in the driver's seat of three unicorns in the last 10 years? I think one of the, so as I've mentioned before, and I'll repeat myself, but I think it's, it's definitely the hard work that I need to put in place. And there's no big company that does not have blood, sweat, and tears behind it. People that are working extremely hard. So I think this is one thing. And this is also what brings luck, I think. And I think Charlie Munger had this quote that you need to deserve your luck. And I 100 % agree with this, that you just need to put in the work to ensure that you can look yourself in the mirror and say, like, whatever was under my control, I maximized it.

27:08So I don't have any regrets looking back. So that's one thing. The second thing is surrounded by people that are just as hardworking as you and that are, if possible, smarter than you in many cases complement your skills. I think this is also crucial. And the part of the companies that I see, either myself or the ones that I've invested in that are doing extremely well, is just because very early on, they've understood that they need to find the best people possible. And I think it's tempting to just sometimes to fill spaces in companies and just to focus on other problems. But hiring is also, in my opinion, one of the key problems they need to solve in the earlier stage companies.

27:46And the good framework that I've seen that I think makes sense is whenever you're making a hire, you should ask yourself if this is the best person possible to be in this position. If this is literally the best person on earth to be, you know, ahead of growth or ahead of operations or any other role. And I think then trying to reverse engineer, how can I find this person? How can I convince this person to really join and helped me build this company that I'm a part of. So I think this is the second learning that I've seen at the companies that I've been lucky, luckily a part of, that each of them had been hiring some very high caliber individuals and people that were extremely smart and hungry and that were always willing to learn, which very nicely brings me to the third point.

28:28And I think this ability to be always learning and to always try to understand and adapt to new reality. I think the speed at which things are changing right now, even kind of further the thesis that your experience is great and serves as the additional data points. But the playbook on the basis of which you're operating should be ever evolving. It's not something that, you know, I don't think it ever should be a case, but I think even more now than ever, that the way that we're doing things should be changing quite rapidly. and we should be iterating ourselves the way that we're doing work just because we're suddenly able to use tools that it was impossible to think even, you know, five or 10 years ago.

29:09And hence the way that you're working should be changing in order to be most efficient. So I think this ability to always learn, to always try new things and test new things and iterate your own playbook on whichever area that you're working in should be just something that should be seen as one of the key factors to be successful. You know, two years ago or even one year ago, we would not even think about how open AI could change things in chat GPT. Probably 30 years ago, people would not think about how Google would change the way that we're working. So the way that we were working in early 1990s and early 2000s and 2010s is definitely different than the way that we would structure things now, just because of the tools that we have.

29:50So it's really important to understand how you can leverage technology and the tools that are out there in order to be more sufficient. Have you ever thought of starting your own company? Yes, many times. And I hope that this is going to come into fruition one day. I always have this urge to build things. I was lucky to be part of very successful companies where I was able to build things. And the roles that I was in were always by nature very entrepreneurial, which I enjoyed a lot. But I hope that one day I'll be looking at this interview and thinking that this was a part of the journey. me to become an entrepreneur because this was this is part of the plan to be a founder one day as i also come from a family of entrepreneurs and the kind of it's i wouldn't say that it's in my blood but it's definitely you get exposed at a pretty young age what being an entrepreneur really is and by default you look at it as a as a way of living and the way of working so i hope that it's also going to be the default most for me hopefully soon awesome so you talked already Maybe about, I mean, I would like to talk a bit about kind of for people out there, how can they maximize their chances of mastering their career path?

31:04So you said 10 years ago, you wanted to be part of a startup and in Asia, it would be fun. So that's kind of like the reason why you joined Lazada. So probably a bit of luck there. But then you did it again. You joined Revolut pretty much when fintech was a new trend. So what made you realize that fintech was the next big trend? And then we can talk about directly what you've done after, which is Kraken. What made you realize that crypto would be the next big trend? And what are the similarities that we've seen? So people can kind of use these mental frameworks that you develop through time to make better decisions on what they should focus on next.

31:51to maximize their chances of having a successful career? Yeah, I think it all started with my initial experience with Lozada and how you can see how e-commerce can basically change how retail really works. So you basically take an industry that is big and you can apply all the new tools that are out there and technologies in order to make it better and how fast you can grow a particular company just because you're able to create the best product that is out there. So I think the same just because you're able to experience it firsthand. So everything, how e-commerce has impacted retail. And when I say it, it sounds very cliche, but it didn't look like that easy more than 10 or 15 years in Asia when it comes to e-commerce versus retail games.

32:33And right now, the same mental model you can actually apply to all other industries. When you see an industry that has been fragmented, an industry that is not leveraging technology to the extent that it can, and you see that it's big enough. you see that there's definitely a potential for some players to make things 10 times better and 10 times cheaper. And I think this was something that I've seen how you can make things way better with Lazada and retail. And I've seen that financial services is a big industry. And I was firsthand experiencing how terrible the experience is when it comes to managing a lot of things finances.

33:08So just because you have this data point that shows you how you can quickly adapt a new technology into an industry that is big and how successful you can become in a relatively short period of time has made me also think that it definitely, the round for disruption in financial services is just around the corner. And this was literally just because I knew how fast things could look like and could change in e-commerce. So this is the reason why experiencing these problems firsthand. I knew that I wanted to be in fintech. I knew I wanted to build companies in big industries that are yet to be disrupted.

33:40And fintech was the way came later compared to e-commerce. And crypto is a little bit of an extension of fintech because a lot of things that crypto promises has actually to do with fintech. So within fintech, the decision was if I had to, just like I picked an industry and I picked the right horse in this race with Revolut, I wanted to stay in fintech. But if I had to pick something within fintech, that was my personal bet that would grow the fastest. It was crypto. And I still believe that crypto has a lot of potential ways to really enhance how we're dealing with everything financial services from under the hood.

34:15And I think we're seeing that more and more with the recent events that are happening around the world. So, yes, I remember being in crypto in 2019 was, even if you say it's not that early, it was actually still pretty early because, I mean, especially 2018, 19, you have this bear market. Everything goes down 90, 95, 99%. People say it's a scam. Ethereum was basically nothing. There was pretty much nothing built on it or pretty much nothing proven built on it. So why crypto back then? Because probably if you started early 2020, it means in 2019, you made your decision that, hey, the next thing for me is crypto.

34:56What attracted you there? And how did you even come across that and decided to take the leap and work full-time in crypto? The very first time when I actually got exposed to crypto was in 2017. And that was a time when Revolut launched crypto in Europe. So it was a feature that allowed you to basically very easily buy and sell crypto. And that was the time when Bitcoin and other cryptos had its first kind of very serious bull run. And I think at that point of time, Coin in 2017, it went up to, I think,$17 ,000 or$19 ,000. $20 ,000. Yeah. So it was that ceiling that it got and there was 2017. And this is what got me exposed into crypto and what I really started to understand a little bit more about different cryptocurrencies and a little bit about different industry.

35:48And it was just a massive wave that suddenly within just a few months, everyone was talking about crypto. And as you rightly pointed out, then it kind of came down and things got back to normal levels or the bear market has started after this 20K has hit. but it was again a bet. It was something that when you, during this few years, when you understood again what Bitcoin is, understood and read more things and spoke with people about what kind of role Ethereum could play in the ecosystem. You're thinking, well, I'm seeing how financial services are working right now. I'm seeing this infrastructure that is out there that had an early adoption cycle when it came up and then it came crashing.

36:27And you know, just because it's a nascent industry that the odds are pretty high that it would come back and it would actually serve a purpose. and solve a particular problem in financial services. So that was a leap that I made just because analyzing and understanding how the financial infrastructure works, how we've seen the infrastructure that Visa, MasterCard has built, that Swift Network has built, and all the legacy institutions, and trying to connect the dots by understanding a little bit how this whole crypto thing works and how it could improve these things that we're currently having versus understanding the current business models that were out there in financial services.

37:00So obviously, it would be very tough to say that I had 100 % conviction that this is going to be the next big thing. But again, you need to make a bet that it's just well-informed and you're thinking that this could be potentially it. And this was the reason why I wanted to be involved and I wanted to build in crypto. So what's the next big trend you identify and you want to dedicate the next few years of your life? One thing that is interesting is caching these trends early, but also, I mean, I still think crypto is very early. There's still not that much that's actually useful out there that's been built.

37:36Yeah, I'm still a very big fan of crypto. And especially that we're seeing very clearly there are some particular use cases that crypto can sell in financial services that haven't been yet sold in financial services. I think what Bitcoin stands for, especially in the times of inflation or hyperinflation in some countries, it's already a pretty solid use case on how crypto is definitely here to stay. You know, when I say I'm bullish on crypto, I'm also bullish on how money movement is going to be working and how payments are going to be working in the foreseeable future. Right now, whenever you make a payment, there's a few middlemen that are taking a cut from this transaction.

38:14Many times you're a seller or any merchant and you're accepting payments online or even offline, it's still, you don't receive the money right away. And they say it takes your time and the company that you're working with takes a significant cut of the payment. So until we're reaching a moment where all the money movement is as fast and as cheap or free, just like sending a message, we're definitely not there yet. And I think, so this is one thesis that I have. And we know that is basically supporting your statement that we're still early. We're still early when it comes to this change coming into financial markets and financial services.

38:50And I think that's the second thing that we're going to be more and more aware is the issue with trusting your money with the middleman. I think especially what we've seen in the past few months is going to be perpetrating the thought of being in control of your own wealth and your own assets. So I think all the financial services that we're seeing that are going to be replicated with crypto, just starting from a notion that you're holding your own wallet and your own coins in your own wallet. And basically all the services that you're interacting with are self-custodial. So you don't have to put all your wealth or any of the cryptocurrency that you're holding with a trusted middleman.

39:30If you have an assumption that you trust no one and you want to be in charge of your own wallet and with your own wealth. So I think this is also going to be something that we're going to be seeing more and more just because the distrust in the regular financial markets industry is actually is going up and people are looking at alternatives. How are you seeing that thing yourself with your own investments? Especially today, it's very relevant. You don't even know if you can keep your cash at the bank. What's going to happen with it? Yeah. So I think where we say that we're still early, I think we're also still early when it comes to building the infrastructure that is going to be supporting that shift.

40:09So I'm definitely bullish on companies that are trying to build the new rails of how the money is going to be flowing, assuming that we replace all fiat with crypto. And I don't think it's a scenario that it's highly unlikely that what we're seeing right now with fiat is going to be replaced by some sort of crypto assets, whether it's going to be CBDCs or it's going to be Bitcoin or it's going to be some other. I think we can say that with some pretty high probability that this is where the future is going. Whether it's going to be 5 years, 10 years, or 15 years, I think no one can really say.

40:43But if we assume that this is right, there's a ton of infrastructure that needs to be built in order to replicate what we're already having. And what we're already seeing with financial infrastructure, just doing that with cryptocurrencies, plus solving new problems that this will bring. So I think when it comes to what I'm bullish on, I'm definitely bullish on the crypto infrastructure companies that are building their new rails. And I'm definitely bullish on the tools that are going to help people building in this area. Just like we've seen, just because of the new dominant players coming into industries such as e-commerce, this has led more and more companies succeeding in building infrastructure in those industries, as well as tools within those industries and helping people build and automate their work.

41:27So I think we've seen that with e-commerce, we've seen that with fintech, and we're going to see that more and more with companies that are going to be doing the same thing with crypto. So we talked about making decisions, whether you are leading a company or whether you're investing, especially when you're investing early, you're making these decisions and you don't have data points or very few. So one of the most important things for that is to develop your own judgment. How do you develop judgment? I think, well, that's a very serious question and I'm sure it's not that easy to frame it as just one simple answer.

42:14But what helps you do it is, first of all, just being hyper logical and hyper analytical and really understanding what reality is. And just by assessing that and assessing all possible solutions, you're able to deduct really what could be the best next decision to make. And then allowing that to basically see the results and iterate really quickly. I think the decision-making process of humans is not that different when you compare it to a machine learning algorithm. And in this case, you know, I think the key components are the quality of data that you have in order to make decisions just like for a machine learning algorithm, the quality of data is important.

42:52And then iterating constantly on the judgment, making the quality of it higher and higher with each single iteration. So I think for humans, it's the same, just being able to iterate really quickly and having the data points that are actually allowing you to make this decision on, and then using logic based on these data points, really analyzing and making this bet on what do you think is the most probable best decision in this case. and then being very agile in understanding if whenever you get more data points, if this decision was really that good or if there's some more data points that you got just because you've made this decision that allow you to make a change and then be open to making changes constantly.

43:32I think what's important is to iterate with more good quality data that you have and with all this process, your judgment is also going to get better and better. And so this is how I think about it and how I would approach becoming better of making good decisions. Another way that we both love to make better decisions is basically how do you optimize yourself for decision making with something that we call biohacking? So that's actually a very common theme amongst entrepreneurs and people who work long hours under huge pressure. And this theme is basically personal development. So how can I optimize my body and my mind and become the best version of myself to not only strive under pressure, but also make the best decisions?

44:20And I know you've been through this process. You're like me, a big fan of biohacking. So give us all your secrets. Yeah. Well, I think the beauty of this is that I don't think it's one solution that fits all. And again, like the approach that I think it's best here is just to try different things and see how they stick and how they can actually improve the way that you're functioning. I have tested a lot of things for myself. I knew that there are certain tactics that I can use, but ultimately I think the best approach is just to look and test at each single one of them and to see how they basically impact your body and your thinking and your general wellbeing.

44:59So I've developed this due to a pretty big need to be able to operate at my highest for 24-7 in a pretty stressful environment. So I had to figure out a way on how I can always be full of energy, how I can always be very clear in how I'm making decisions. And this is what basically brought me to test a lot of things around my sleep, to test a lot of things around the type of exercise that I was doing. doing, it also helped me force myself to test a lot of things related to my diet. And when you have a combination of these things and you see what works, what doesn't, this is how you kind of end up to a point where you're more and more efficient.

45:41So this is exactly how I thought about it. I just tried to test it a ton of things and see how it worked for me. What are a few things that you tried? Let's say the three categories. So diet, sleep, and exercises. What are a few things you tried that didn't work at all? and a few things you tried that really worked well that you'd recommend for people to say, oh, listen, like you can try all this stuff, but these kinds of things are more likely to work. Yeah, so from the things that didn't work for me, I think they could work for some people for some time or some people for a longer time. The things that didn't really work well for me are on the sleep side.

46:18I thought just checking on looking more on the number of hours that I sleep and not be looking at the quality of sleep was something that I got as a first learning. I would think, for example, that if I worked very late until let's say 1 a.m. or 2 a.m., if I then get my eight hours of sleep, I would actually feel great. And what I've learned is that there's a certain cut of time for me that I can get these six, seven, eight hours of sleep, but it has to start from 10 p.m. And everything that is beyond that, it's actually not working very well for me. So I would operate way better if I go to sleep way earlier rather than just try to push it and still get the same amount of hours in.

47:02So the hours of sleep would not be necessarily the best KPI when it comes to really driving the best outcome from sleep. So this is what I've learned myself, that it's less about the hours, but more about making sure that you're going to sleep at the same time and that this time is probably a little bit earlier rather than later. I have other things with sleep, but I think this is probably one of the key learnings that didn't really work well for me. So learning there is going to sleep at the same time of the day and figuring out which time is best. And for me, it's probably around 10 p.m. So that's the first one.

47:36When it comes to diet, I've tried keto. Keto helps to learn a little bit more about your body. But it's not something that I think for me, it was sustainable in the long term. What keto also taught me is that how my body reacts to carbs, how my body reacts to insulin. And it definitely helped me to understand these things a little bit more. But as a solution, I would not think that this is something that would be sustainable for me in the long run. And this is also something that kind of goes in the other direction, the things that I've learned that work, is that with keto, I also learned at the same time certain foods that I'm allergic to that are kind of basics of keto diet.

48:14Keto helped me understand that I'm allergic to certain fruits and it actually impacted me positively. But the fact that if I was only looking at keto as a mean to solve my problem just by sticking with it, it wouldn't really help me achieve my or being the best version of myself. So this is probably the best way when it comes to optimizing my diet. When it comes to exercise, I also thought initially that I didn't think that, or I thought at some point of time that this is the best way to exercise is to really double down on HIIT. So my hypothesis at that point of time would be that I really want to, I don't have much time.

48:53I need to squeeze in as much exercise as possible with a very short period of time. And that if I want to keep in shape and lose fat or keep my fat percentage in control, HIIT would be beneficial. tool. So I would do, for example, sessions of very high intensity sports like Muay Thai or HIT running very frequently during the week. And the problem that this has caused is that these exercises are very strenuous on the body and they also impact the levels of your cortisol. So you're kind of combining a very high stress environment, very intense work together with very high stress exercising. And this is something that, you know, theoretically, when you look at it at face value, it makes sense to solve the problems that I thought it would solve.

49:35But then when you put it in a larger picture, you test it out and see that your body is actually reacting. You feel more fatigue than you felt before, that it's actually something that you should adjust and do differently. So HIIT is great for some times in some situations, but as a hack to basically be as a default way of exercising, especially if you're already working in pretty high intensity environments at work, putting that much stress onto your body is not something that I found very useful. Yeah. So the high intensity interval training is a very interesting one because I do quite a lot of gym.

50:08And at some point, two, three years ago, I was thinking, I'm just going to do one month break of gym or less. And I'm going to try this high intensity interval training. But like, you know, I think probably four or five times a week. And after one or two weeks, I realized I was staying in bed all day and I was like down and I was like, what's going on? like I'm not sick. I seem like I'm kind of depressed. And then I kind of read online that there is this thing called, you can basically burn out from high intensity interval because it's so strong on your body that if you just go too much, it's bad for you.

50:41So absolutely the combination of like the high stress already plus the stressing on your muscle and body makes a lot of sense in terms of that. Yeah, we need to be careful about that. I've learned that the hard way. Yeah, I've learned that the hard way that I've seen, I've tested it out and I've seen the results and I thought that, well, well, maybe I can do something different and something better. And this is how I got from keto. I stopped doing keto, but what I got from keto is how to really pick my carbs, right, if I have to go with, if I have to eat them. Second of all, what stayed with me is intermittent fasting.

51:11So I did say keto plus intermittent fasting. Intermittent fasting still stayed with me at that point of time. And when it comes to exercising, I think HIIT is good just for sometimes and not very often. and as basically one of the elements of a holistic exercise regime and not something that it's go-to for every day or every second day as the main exercise. But just having that variety of different muscle groups and different types of exercises, it feels like in combining low-intensity training with high-intensity training, it felt something that works best for me. You told me also that you quit alcohol.

51:50Yeah. So that's an interesting one because people thinking about successful people think that successful people have an amazing life, party, go out. When you actually look at the life of successful people, kind of boring. They don't do much of those things that I'd say kind of normal people do or they do it much less because they understand that this will impact their performance and their sleep and all that stuff. So can you tell us more about the alcohol part, which is a common theme across people who are very successful that I talk to? They barely touch alcohol, actually. Yeah. So I wouldn't say that I quit it 100%, but I would say like when it comes to drinking it, I would really limit it to like very certain occasions.

52:41That is just a social thing for me. And I would do it maybe, I don't know, once every half a year. So very, very rarely. And the reason for this is that alcohol is a drug. It's just a drug that it's legal and you can use it. It's harmful to your body, just like any other drug. It gives you a certain feeling that you can feel good after, just like any other drug. So, you know, it's actually a question. If you look at, for example, policies around drugs and you're thinking, okay, why is this drug that is called alcohol legal and why other drugs are not legal? And I'm anti-drug in general. But if you start understanding what it really is, that it's actually a legal drug, you ask yourself a question, if I want to be a best version of myself, is it okay?

53:24Is it actually bringing me closer to that or making me being further away? And just by the fact, also with age, you see the effects of alcohol coming up to you much closer. For example, after a few glasses of wine, you would next day, you wouldn't feel really hangover, but you would feel like it has an impact. It slows you down. And at this point of time, you're thinking that the benefits that it brings, it's not actually that high compared to the cost that it has on the body. And what actually triggers this change even faster is that when you actually give yourself this few weeks without alcohol and you start noticing that your skin is brighter, that you start losing weight, that you feel better, that you have more energy.

54:03And these are the data points that you get from not drinking alcohol. It actually shows you that maybe it's actually better for your body to really limit it almost to zero. So this is again, this is the process that I had. I didn't really feel great after drinking even small amounts of alcohol. I tested it out and see how it would work like without alcohol and actually I feel way better. So I tried to limit as much as I can and only in very certain circumstances that are, you know, some festive periods of weddings, et cetera, that I can have a toast for other people as a more of a cultural thing, rather than a thing that would actually solve my problem when it comes to social interactions or de-stressing how some people look at alcohol.

54:48I think there are other better ways to solve each one of these things than alcohol. It's just very much embedded in our own operating system, that this is just a way of dealing with celebrating successes, dealing with stress, or many other ways that people would think about going out and drinking. And when you start questioning these things on like the habits that you have and the mental models that were pre-programmed or were programmed throughout your whole life, it's good to retrospect and look at it and ask yourself if it really makes sense and test out the scenario where you're basically putting that away.

55:19So this is exactly what I've done. I've tested it out. It works better without. So I try to limit my consumption almost to zero. The problem is it's a very social thing. So you have a bunch of friends. Hey, let's go out. let's have some drinks or even in the business field you know you meet with other people you do business by having these lunches or dinners and drink so maybe in business you can say oh listen i'm not drinking i'm drinking only on the weekend and actually that might you know help other people also say no because they don't want to drink yeah and they say oh someone's not drinking i'm not drinking either but what do you do with people or friends who tell you that you're boring you know plain boring do you have such friends did you change your friend circle because that's a big thing if you're in your say mid-20s late 20s early 30s there's still a lot of people who are not on that same page and who might just say yakub is boring well you just have to be a person that is not boring without alcohol and if you're still a funny guy without alcohol and you can still are a social person and i'm i find myself as an extrovert so i actually like being around people and I don't need alcohol to have a good time.

56:31So yeah, maybe it's a little bit problem, bigger problem for people that are introverted, but I'm sure that there's other ways to solve it. And it's actually, interestingly, I think it can create even stronger bonds because when you're the guy saying, no, I actually don't drink. And then you explain the logic. You actually find that in circles that I'm around, there are many people that are actually the same and that creates being anti-this, that creates already a separate camp that you're getting closer to other people and that just have been you know going through the same thought process and they're happy that they can see someone that is actually testing things out and not thinking things for granted and they're all trying to optimize themselves so I think this can create even stronger bonds with people that are similar to you so I think that's a good thing and with people that you know still okay with drinking alcohol I think it just it's one of the thing it's just a solution that works for some people it works very well for me but it might not work well for other people.

57:23Other people can drink alcohol and can be super high functioning and have no impact on their metabolism, on their health, et cetera. So it's just the thing that works for me. And I always explain to people when they ask a question that I just feel way better and I try to optimize my health and that I don't have problems with alcohol. It's just, I want to be functioning on the highest possible level. So whenever you explain the reasoning for this, I think the people that I've met, everyone kind of understands. And you will be surprised how many people actually go through the same kind of thinking.

57:51And that creates even a stronger bond when you're kind of both approaching this problem in a similar way and trying new things and figuring out how you can be functioning at a highest level. And yeah, that can be even a better bond than compared to alcohol. What is the best advice you've ever been given? I think in general, I don't really like when people give like boilerplate advices. I think there are very few of them that really work in all the scenarios or all circumstances. So I think the best advice is to actually always think for yourself and use logic when it comes to making decisions.

58:29And treat this as one of the best data points, just because people are very easy to give cheap advice to people. And people's circumstances, their data points and experiences are different. And just because something has worked for this person in this particular circumstances at a particular time doesn't mean that it will work for you. So I think a good advice to give is just to, of course, seek feedback from other people, but ultimately try to make sense out of all these things and make the best decision possible. Just because there's plenty of cheap advice out there. There's plenty of really bad advice out there.

59:01And there's very few of them that are actually universal, that works in majority of circumstances. And I think one of them is always trying to be logical and try to understand reality. And just by understanding it, making sure that you apply the best judgment possible and iterate over time is probably one of the best mental models you can get and not looking for boilerplate advice from other people. What's something that you believe in that most people would not agree with? I think still that the future of money is on blockchain. I think it's still something that it's, if you speak with people in crypto, we all kind of share the same belief that this is where the future is going.

59:45Many people that get involved in crypto are thinking about it as an easy scheme to make money. Where, you know, whenever you're getting into crypto, your first kind of, the first thing that you have in your mind is that not this is going to change the way that finance works. It's just maybe this is a good scheme for me to make money for an investment. So the investment part is probably much more important for people that are really understanding the underlying technology and how it can change the way that we're perceiving money. So I think, yeah, quoting the classic, the future is on-chain. And I think this is something that there are people within crypto that share the same belief.

1:00:21When it comes to looking at the global population, quoting another classic, we're still early. So really understanding that the future is on-chain and definitely the future of money is on-chain. if there was a summary or key takeaway that people should remember from today what would it be yeah that it's always good to to deserve your luck i think that's that's the one one thing that we've we've talked about and that the importance of luck and and the importance of of trying to always make the best decisions possible and iterating over time i think whether it comes to, you know, where you spend your time, where you work, where you invest your money.

1:00:59I think having that ability to be constantly learning and working hard and then being more exposed to luck, I think this is something that happened to me. And I'm sure that this is something that could be a takeaway from our conversation. Thank you so much for your time, Jakub. Where can the audience find you and connect with you? I think the best way is on LinkedIn. so feel free to find me on LinkedIn connect with me and DM me and I'll be very happy to revert and get back to people that do Awesome Thank you everyone for listening and watching please smash the like button and give us your feedback in the comments highlight will be posted on YouTube Twitter, Substack, LinkedIn and Instagram and I'll see you all in the next episode

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