Am I Being Gaslit?

0:00What you are about to hear is a classic Esther calling, a one-time intervention phone call recorded remotely from two points somewhere in the world.

0:22Hello, hello. Hello. So you wrote the question or you recorded the question, but if you could ask it to me again as we speak today. I'm wondering if I'm being gaslit by my partner or if it's a case that I'm just being overly sensitive. I feel like there's that I get certain treatment when we're alone that feels very hidden but you know in speaking to him he says I'm overly sensitive that like I'm overly boundaried and that I am actually it's more that I'm treating him badly and he gets like angry at me for me being kind of bad and he admits that sometimes his behaviour isn't great and he's working on it and he's worked a lot on it I just have no idea if I'm basically a bad person and if I'm treating him like crap and not being sensitive to him because that's what it sounds like

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3:13So tell me something. Let's just go a little bit back. How did you come to formulate the question the way you do? What is the history of your relationship that led you to this question? Am I being gaslit or am I overly sensitive? So here's a tendency. So, for example, over New Year's, we went away together. We were in the car and I wasn't feeling well. And he just kept on like shouting at me and kind of giving out to me and telling me that I wasn't being nice to him. And he was shouting at me. And originally I thought he was kind of joking. And I was like, yeah, I know I am. But I was quite premenstrual at the time.

3:59and I was menstruating and I felt awful. So I was just kind of a bit of a curmudgeon. And I was like, yeah, I know, I feel bad. Just let me feel bad. I know where I am. Like, this is grand. And he just kept on shouting like, you're not being nice to me. You're not being nice to me. And like, we were literally going to our friend's doorstep. And like, he just left me there and was just, just acted like everything was perfectly normal. And it seems to often be as well with social settings that we'll be going out and he'll do something to pull the rug out from underneath me and be like, what's your problem?

4:42Another example is I was at therapy and I came back and I wasn't feeling particularly great. you know we had been talking about boundaries because I do have concerns that my boundaries aren't very good and it's something that I work on. What do you mean by that? What do you mean by that? That's a big statement you know. Yeah. And one in which only you know what you mean by it. yeah so I know that I don't necessarily know how to put up boundaries I was in a I was in a job before basically I worked myself to a state of very poor health and a lot of that had to do with working with someone who wouldn't let me say no.

5:39So no matter how much I was like, I'm not available, they just kept on pushing me. And also that particular industry, that particular job, there was a real need for me. There was nobody else to do the job. I had to travel and move and I was exhausted. But because there was such a need for me, I let myself, I suppose, But I felt like I didn't have a choice. I let myself just get torn into that and away from my life and away from the people that I care about. And eventually I got to a point where I completely burnt out. And you're telling me this also because in some way something parallel is happening between you and your boyfriend?

6:26Yeah, exactly. Right. You are on the verge of burnout. If I ask you, you know, because you say, am I being gaslit or am I overly sensitive? Which of course is what people who are gaslit often end up feeling. Yeah. Is that they are being overly sensitive, that they are not clear, that they're doubting themselves, that they're confused, that they no longer trust their own sanity. Yeah. you know I you went to look for the definition of what being gaslit means I definitely looked it up at some point but I don't quite remember it at this moment so let me you know without even defining the term if you're telling me I'm in a relationship where I don't trust that what I think has validity.

7:20I find myself often saying I feel something and then I'm being blamed for the very thing that I just uttered. The blame is constantly shifting. I am accused of being the gaslighter and then I end up completely confused and it makes me question the situation. And it's like, you know, what we call in my field projective identification. You know, you are telling me that I'm doing to you what you're exactly doing to me. I distrust myself. I begin to question my mental health because you keep telling me that my mental health is not steady or something happens and you tell me that's not what happened or that it is your fault if it happened or that I'm doing these things and I'm saying these mean things because I actually am trying to help you.

8:14Or that it's not such a big deal. So what if you're menstruating? That shouldn't explain why you're treating me the way you are. Or that you're overthinking it. Or that when I mean I was just joking. Or that you're too emotional. These are kind of seven common gaslighting phrases. you know if any of these are continuously occurring to you or if you simply even without that say you know i am constantly questioning myself i'm constantly doubting myself i'm constantly in a state of confusion etc etc the answer to your question doesn't really matter what you know is that this is not a good situation but the thing is like that's the thing is like I don't know now you're going to give me the other side but we also have nice times but when I'm about to pull away he apologizes profusely and he promises that he will change that he's working on it and that this will never be happening again until two hours later yeah and now you're going to see so back and forth in the ambivalence.

9:27You know, here are all these things, but maybe what if what he says has validity and is true? And maybe I am indeed so insecure. And maybe I do indeed to have a problem with boundaries, which of course I'm having with him too. And so in the end, maybe he knows me better than I know myself. Yeah. And when I say I'm hungry, he says, no, you're not really hungry. You shouldn't be hungry right now. And I'm beginning to wonder, well maybe then I'm not hungry yeah that's literally like what happens I'll be like oh let's get some food and he'll be like no no I'm like well I'm I need something and I'll end up getting like a protein bar something to tide me over until we're eating and then and then he'll be like oh yeah by the way while you went went into the shop to get a protein bar I got a chicken and I'm just like, what?

10:23But it's, yeah, it comes from everywhere. It feels very controlling. It's either reality manipulation,

10:39scapegoating, coercion, or straight up lying. Those are probably four of the main gaslighting tactics. Shifting blames would be another. When you shift the blame is another common tactic. And the interesting thing as I listen to you is you have the answer to your question. Every time you give me another example to reinforce that you actually know what's happening. but the thing is that like he has shown me in so many ways that he does love me and he like we have the honestly the best time he's my best friend in the world like I I don't know how to lose him and like that's the thing is like I see him as a really good person I see him as like a really kind and warm and friendly.

11:48And if you see him with his friends, he is incredible. Like incredible. Like it's so, so confusing. Exactly. Again, but then he turns around and does that to me. But he honestly, that's the thing. I'm just like, I wish that I could wash it off. No, a question I would ask him. Yeah. is who did this to you and nobody stopped them who did you see do this in your family and nobody stopped them i feel like that would really be really hard for him and i would be worried about challenge not challenging i think it would for him something like that would be but do you know i'd i'd imagine i have an idea that's my question my question is you know he may be a wonderful friend but that does not dictate how he's going to be with his girlfriend yeah those two things don't necessarily always go in sync i would ask him where did he learn this and who did he see do this and who never stopped it and i would then ask you this parallel question this of course is not a question you're going to ask him, but I'm asking that to you because you probably know him.

13:14How long are you together? Two years. Okay. And then I'm going to ask you, who did you see in such a dynamic? Where did you learn not to be able to say no? Because this is not about am I being gaslit or am I being overly sensitive? Without defining, you know, without focusing just on these two terms, you've described the reality. And then you say, but he loves me. And that may very much be the case as well. But he also needs to control you. But he's also intensely insecure and therefore he needs you to be one down. But he also has a hard time hearing you say, I'm hungry without instantly denying it or defying you or qualifying it or deciding if you have a right to be hungry at this moment or not, because he knows better than you what your stomach needs.

14:13So regardless of how much he loves you, he still would need to learn to differentiate and to be able to let you have an experience and respond caringly and compassionately to it without having to decide if your experience is valid or not before he decides how he wants to respond, because he's the master and the judge. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, that is qualifying my experience. That's it. It's like every single experience I have, all of my friendships, all of my work, it's like it's being qualified. That's exactly it. And like being like, you're doing this right and you're doing that wrong. It's like being stuck in a box.

14:57And the thing is, I know that I am brilliant and I have beautiful friendships and I have I I was excellent at that job and I'm excellent at most things that you put in front of me and I feel that really deeply I know what I'm doing and I care about myself and I've had to do a lot of work on myself and I'm continuing to learn and all of you know I'm conscious of where I go up and where I go down but and if you had a friend since you have very good friends if one of your friends was in a situation that is similar to yours what would you say just step away it's not it just doesn't it's not that easy it just doesn't we're completely entwined in each other's lives as well and then what would you say to your friend.

16:03So your friend says, it's not that easy. We've got our lives completely intertwined with each other. I've invested two years of my life here. I know he loves me, but I'm being obliterated. I'm losing my mind. I'm continuously put in a situation where I have to doubt myself. Yeah, I'd be like, I'll take care of you.

16:35We have to take a brief break. So stay with us. And let's see where this goes.

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20:40Have you spoken with your girlfriends or your friends, period? Yeah, a little bit. I don't like to speak badly about him because they all know him. So I want, you know, to honor the relationship in a way. I've spoken to my sister a bit. And has anybody said keep going? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then I had one friend who was like, had flagged it early. And when she flagged it, that was also the time, literally the same day when I had the breakdown for work or the day that I got literally a cert from my doctor being like, you can't go to work and you can't do that job anymore. And I was not sleeping through the night.

21:34And I was, it was, I was like literally talking to him about it. And he was like, well, I'm thinking about maybe we should break up. So he, he's, he nearly always, when I'm at like a level of like peak stress, he'll put something else on top. And then I never went back to work after that. So if you are struggling with something, he will trump you? If you bring up a feeling, he'll bring up another one that he thinks in that moment is more important than the one you just brought up. Yeah, every single time. So that boundary, when I was talking about that boundaries thing, he flipped when I was back from the therapist.

22:22And I was just like literally standing in the kitchen being like, I just need to eat some dinner. So I was like, right, I'm just going to make myself some food. I'm going to take care of myself. I'm going to nourish my body. and I was like okay I just need you know I'm a bit weird right now I just need a little bit of space because I love love and then he started at me and I was like no I can't handle this right now I've explained the fact that I'm feeling very vulnerable I'm just like letting you know that and he was in a great mood when I came in and then suddenly he turned and then he started shouting at me and shouting at me and I was like stop shouting me and then he freaked out about me having me not understanding what a boundary was me turning my boundaries against him and then he made me uh we had this long discussion about what qualifies shouting or not and then we literally got into the depths of like right what shouting what the semiotics of the word shouting is to both of us and then he made me force he made me say that he hadn't been shouting at me in regard in terms of the way that he understands the word shouting so you cover all four right you cover the coercive strategies you cover cover the shifting of the blame you cover the questioning of your reality you cover the manipulation the disqualifying so you've answered your question yeah what has made it so difficult for you to know that you have to go or to act on it where where does your challenge come from in terms of saying no in terms of saying this is I know I need to do and I'll deal with the consequences in fact I'll be liberated I'll suddenly realize how much I've been hijacked and what kind of a hostage situation this has been and I will be able to once again and liberate myself with my friends.

24:25And then my friends are going to start telling me how they had noticed it, that and the other. And I'm going to say, how come you never told me? And they'll tell me, we kept trying to tell you, but you couldn't hear it because you were completely enveloped in this saga. Yeah, it's bizarre. I know that you're right. I know that. You're brilliant. You know, you've answered your questions. You have your answer. this is not a question of discernment this is a question of you've tried it before you may try it again he's going to beg you he's going to plead you he's going to be his best self for half an hour and he's a he may be a perfectly good kind person yeah but he's got some things to deal with if he's going to be in a relationship and so do you yeah well yeah i think that's the thing is like I'm like if I've tried so hard you know and I'm 35 I've been in enough relationships and like he genuinely has worked a lot on himself and I can see how he's come along in a like in a big way do you know what well I don't know what you mean because every example you've given shows me somebody who has very little ability to see what he does.

25:53And of course, for any gaslighter, there must be a person that is letting themselves be gaslit. These two go together. But there hasn't been a situation where you describe him saying, I realize, I notice, I take responsibility, I'm sorry I was projecting I was dumping he has none of it well he has done that I mean when when you leave no I mean that's I think that's the thing about we do talk after these things happen like I've been listening to you for ever I never knew that he knew about you and he sent me something like one of your youtube videos about like when couples get to an impasse and he was like let's look at this and let's talk about this based on the tools that are there and like i really appreciate that i can see him trying but the thing we're actually at a point right now where we're not really speaking and I asked for the keys back for my flat after the everything that happened that I've been kind of talking about recently it was too much I mean that piece of your excusing him and analyzing and justifying and excusing his behavior is part of the gas lit cycle.

27:36He's doing this, but he doesn't really mean to do this. He feels bad about it afterwards. And so now I need to make him feel better about him making me feel bad. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. This is twisted. Completely twisted because I was on the phone to him yesterday. I wanted to let him know that I was going to be speaking to you because I thought that was respectful I also was like look in the long run like I feel like we've been kind of running on kind of my what I want I just want to know what you want and then of course it came back around to how much all of his friends told him that like he's great and and then I of course was like well you're a great person and I want you to know that you're a good person.

28:27I do think that, but it still comes around to like having this treatment and I still seem to be the person going to him, being, telling him that he's good. And then I'm the bad guy again. And does that come from him as well? You're a wonderful person? No, I guess you're a lovely person. You're a lovely person. Okay. If you are indeed such close friends, and if he's indeed such a wonderful person, then you may want to find this relational structure that will actually highlight that. Being his friend may give you much more of the wonderful qualities that he has than being his girlfriend. Yeah, that's true.

29:11At least for right now. So he can stay in your life. It's not clear that he will. generally when that dynamic occurs it's more common that the person will be more vindictive and not want anything to do with you they'll try they'll try they'll come back they'll come back until they finally realize that maybe they're not going to get what they want and then they'll say fuck you yeah and but if he does stay have him in your life but have him in the structure of relationship that gives you access to the best qualities that he has. If he's such a wonderful friend, be a friend. But I love him. That is a wonderful thing, but that doesn't mean you need to make a life in that dynamic.

30:03It doesn't change if people don't actively take ownership over what they do to create this kind of dynamic. And that means you and him. Yeah.

30:20We are in the midst of our session. There is still so much to talk about. So stay with us.

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