I Love My Partner, So Why Can’t I Let Go of My Ex?

0:00Welcome. Thank you. Maybe we start by you telling me what is the question that you bring with you today? Because we can't address everything, and so sometimes it helps us focus and have a lens through which to engage in our conversation together. That sounds good. The question that I'm hoping to explore, and if I'm lucky, get some sort of answer to today, would be how do I be in partnership with my current partner while also holding the love that I have for my former partner? And how does that overlap? How does that look? Like, is it possible? Yeah, that's kind of the basis of my question.

0:59You know that feeling when too many things fall through the cracks? Monday.com was built for that gap. The AI work platform where people and agents work side by side to deliver more together. Create your first Monday agent today at Monday.com. Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part?

1:37Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

2:16I definitely know it's possible. I have been feeling it. I've been with my current partner for close to six years and have felt this presence of my former partner just always there. It hasn't dissipated, but the layers around that former partnership are just so complex. And I've recently seen him. And so things have resurfaced. and I know it's possible to have multiple partners and that is something that my current partner and I have discussed, non-monogamy and polyamory. I don't think that is necessarily what I'm asking in this context. That's not what I'm looking for. I know for sure my former partner would not be interested in that, but my former partner is in the Philippines and I am here in the U.S.

3:11with my current partner. So there's a lot of different layers around the complexities of maintaining relationships and particularly like the cultural part of relationships with my former partner who is not American. And give me just a little bit of background. Situate me in your life story and who are the primary characters in this drama? Okay, so I moved to the Philippines about a decade ago and did a few different things there. I moved there because of the Peace Corps and then got out of the Peace Corps and managed to find another job that kept me in the Philippines because I was in love and knew that it would be very difficult for my partner in the Philippines to make it to the U.S.

4:04near impossible unless we were to get married. So we started the fiance visa route. So things didn't work out due to visa things, relational things, a bunch of things. Then I moved back to the U.S. and without any intention, within like a month of moving back to the U.S., met my now current partner and have been with them for close to six years. There was very little time between the two partners. and when I left the Philippines for the last time, we were deciding to move in different directions, but there wasn't any closure. There also wasn't hurt or anger. We were at the airport very sad and we'll see each other soon.

4:53There was still a lot of love and planning to be in each other's lives. Then I moved back to the US, met my current partner who is non-binary. I went from being in a heterosexual relationship to a queer relationship. So there's that whole layer. And then for years, truly since I started dating my partner, it was always something we talked about was my former partner in the Philippines and how much I love him and how much I want him to be a part of my life. But the role of a partner didn't necessarily make sense anymore. So how do I maintain him in my life? And then because of everything the world experienced for the years of 2020, you know, to present day, it was very hard to get back to the Philippines.

5:42And I just went back in December and saw him for the first time since we left. And I left March of 2020. So right when the borders were closing. And it felt amazing. It felt like no time had passed. I had been preparing for this trip with my individual therapist and my couples therapist for months. Like, I know this is going to be really intense. It's going to be intense while I'm there. It's going to be intense when I come back. And it was. And were there other relationships on that side too? In the Philippines. Did he have other relationships? Yes. Yeah. So during the time when we were apart, he did have a partner and for maybe two years, but when he started dating that person, he like kind of disappeared and ghosted me.

6:34There was one sort of communication that was like, Hey, I have a partner. She doesn't want me to talk to you. So you're not in my life anymore. So I feel like I like grieved our whole relationship. And then two years later, she got up and ghosted him and left. And then he started reaching out to me again, like, I'm so sorry. Like she was actually the one sending you those messages, but you know me, I don't like conflict. I couldn't talk to you, but I want to be in your life again. So we started planning like, okay, the only way we're going to be able to see each other, obviously is if I come there.

7:09So let's start planning a time for us to see each other. And yeah, we, it just felt like we had a really great time and we reconnected and we were talking about like, what does our relationship look like into the future? And then just like a week after I got back, he just stopped talking to me. So then I was left with all these feelings of, yeah, like this is taking over my brain and my life. I'm not able to be present because I'm, I'm first and foremost, I'm worried about him. Like it feels like this is completely out of character. But now as more time has passed, I'm like, is it not a character?

7:46Like he did this before. Yeah. And I think, yeah, my main question that I like. So right now you're not in contact with him. Well, you don't know why. I yeah, we are not in contact. I am being a crazy person and continuing to call him and message him. But nothing. There is no no response or sign. Okay. So in light of what you've just told me, what is your question? Which one are we going with? I think like, yeah, how do I try to maintain presence in my current relationship while still holding whatever this was from this previous? I mean, obviously there's love and I feel like that I can hold in my heart.

8:31But how do I like not let this take over my brain and keep me from being present in my current relationship? That's a very different question than the one you had five minutes ago. And in part, it's because what you've just described is that it's not your decision alone. Yeah. Yeah. What it felt like, what you choose to remember, where you choose to hold it inside of you, what place it takes in your overall story. That's all for you to decide freely. Right. But what the relationship becomes, if it reactivates itself, how it sustains itself and all of that, that is a joint decision. And so part of what is driving you crazy is the fact that you're alone with this at this point.

9:22you're confused and for the first time you're losing ground as in the ground under your feet feels very very shaky and I have not yet asked you how does your U.S. partner relate to all of this what do they say or what do they feel

9:47I think they are like supportive but it's this hard dance that we do of like I feel like a lot of my relationships in the past have been very secretive around like oh there's feelings for someone else like very very monogamous without any acknowledgement and that doesn't feel that is not what my current partnership is but it also brings up a lot when I'm like unable to just like be present and for weeks at a time. They wonder if you want to be with them. Yeah. And I think that's, yeah. And I think that's complicated in my own brain because I'm like, I don't feel like that's what it is, but I'm also just like, how have I been thinking about this and for six years, you know, and like even being with him for those two weeks that we were just together, it didn't feel like, oh, I'm questioning my decision of whether I want to be in this partnership or this partnership.

10:48I feel good in my decision to be in my current partnership, but there's just this string pulling me that feels like, but you need to be in some sort of partnership with him. That's not like anyone telling me that. It's just in my heart. It's like this person in the Philippines is someone who feels like a soulmate. But yeah, it's not my decision. And I think that is what is so hard. Tell me, describe the strength to me. What's the pull and what are you being pulled towards? And what does this pull represent for you? Oh, yeah, so much. Right before I left for the Philippines, my parents got divorced.

11:40And so that was in 2016. And basically since then, my dad has not talked to me. And so I know there are all these other layers of like the feeling of abandonment and just like being pushed aside or like not even given the time to explain why there's no communication. So your dad ghosted you? And you have no idea why, and it hasn't changed for 10 years? Yeah. Do you have a sense? Yeah. Did he ghost just you? Did he ghost everyone in the family? Not my three brothers. It's been, which is always so complex. I was maybe more on my mom's side, and I wasn't really willing to, like, have a conversation with him until we acknowledged all the hurt he was causing my mom.

12:33and for the first like year we kind of did this dance of like he'd try to like have a relationship with me and I would be like I can't until we talk about all of these things these actions you're doing and he was just like I won't talk about that with you our relationship is independent of my relationship with your mom and we just could never get over that hurdle he's never even reached out to me it's not a matter of like he's reaching out and I'm still not ready to go about it like I have not heard from him for probably eight years. And that was all happening in my early 20s, right as I was going to the Philippines.

13:14And then I met this person who I'm sure I just have, yeah, weird attachments I was with. And I think it doubly hurts because he knows all of this about my dad. And I was going through all of that during the start of our relationship. and like processing all of that. So he was the glue that helped you tolerate the riff and the breach that you were experiencing with your dad. Right. And he represented something continuous and ongoing in the middle of a thread that had just been torn. Yeah. Yeah. And the Philippines in and of it, like represents all of that, I think too. And so there's like the layer of him being my partner, but then also like living in that place for so many years.

14:18But me living in the place that whole time has the foundation of me being in partnership with him. So I have all of these feelings of this place being like home but it's not my home, right? Like I am just a foreigner in this place, but it made it feel less like that when I had a partner to like ground me in all of that. So there's, yeah, the complex layers around like, am I losing him? Am I losing this whole like part of my life that feels like it's like, you know, like I've had like a hole in my heart and then that kind of filled in the hole in my heart. And what else? What does this thread represent?

15:04Because the departure was not only, I imagine, or maybe I should ask it as a question, was the departure a consequence of the unraveling of the family? With my dad? With your dad and maybe with your mom too?

15:25Yeah, I'm sure it zooming out. It was not unexpected, but in the moment it happened, it felt very unexpected and super dramatic. And like, I'm not talking to anyone about it. I'm just like getting up and leaving one day. Um, it was, yeah, it was just a very messy and awful situation. And then very quickly after that, I left as like, yeah, I'm sure a way of running away from everything. And what number are you? I'm two. And everybody else did?

16:01Ish. Everyone dispersed a little bit within the US. But honestly, I've thought about for years, reaching out to come on your show to have a conversation with me and my mom because our relationship was so complex from all of this for so long. And part of me leaving the country was just like, I am 22 years old and I cannot support you through, yeah, just, you know, she was just at a terrible time and was just constantly experiencing suicide ideation and whether she wanted to be alive or not and how she was going to make it to the next day. And it was just a lot, a lot to hold and a lot to carry.

16:44And yeah, so I think part of this thread of my relationship was also just like an escape and like someone to hold me instead of me having to hold everyone. Yep. Yep. It wasn't just leaving because of your dad. It was leaving because of what it would mean to stay with your mom. And it was also being with someone who could take care of you a little bit or be there for you when everything I was here was about you being there for everybody. You got it. You got it. And so when I ask you what does he represent, it's a lot of that. And yet at some point you decided it was time to come back. Even though you imagined that he would come with you, you did feel this is not my place.

17:38This was a good transition. This helped me go from stage X to stage X. But now I need to go back to my, at least my country. Are you back in your area or are you? Different area. Okay. And interestingly, you did the exact same thing in the U.S. that you had done in the Philippines. Yep. I mean, you don't stay alone very long. Yeah. In the good sense of the word. There's nothing, you know. And you had the same way that you had someone there that helped you enter the country, make a base, situate yourself, be anchored. You met someone here and they helped you and situate. Okay, so you are resourceful.

18:26You are very resourceful. It's a compliment not to worry. Yeah, yeah.

18:39We have to take a brief break, so stay with us. And let's see where this goes.

18:53Support for the show comes from Quo. Our phones can do a lot these days, but at the end of the day, it's still a phone. And it's still receiving calls. And if you run a business, you don't want to miss one from a potential client. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q-U-O, the business phone system built so you never miss a call. With Quo, all your calls, texts, and voicemails live in one place so anyone on your team can pick up a conversation, see the full history, and respond fast. Quo is the number one rated business phone system on G2, trusted by over 90 ,000 businesses who rely on it to stay reachable and look professional every day.

19:37Set up in minutes on any device, keep your existing number and add teammates as you grow. No IT, no hassle. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free plus get 20 % off your first six months when you go to quo.com slash begin. That's q-u-o dot com slash begin.

20:02Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

20:43Support for Where Should We Begin comes from Babel. If you're traveling this summer, the internet is full of all kinds of advice. What to pack, what to see, what hole-in-the-wall restaurant is a must-visit. But do you want to know the real travel hack? Start learning the language now, so you'll have a few phrases down pat when you arrive. Enter Babbel, a language learning app that is built for real success. Their lessons are quick, practical, and built by more than 200 language experts. I've been using Babbel, and I really like the Babbel podcast because learning language isn't just about memorizing words.

21:22it's about context and listening to stories from native speakers gives you a much richer sense of a place and the people who live in there. If you've got summer travel coming up, now is the time to start so you can actually use what you learn on the trip. Right now, Babbel is offering listeners up to 60 % off. Go to babbel.com slash Esther. That's Babbel, B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Esther for up to 60 % off. Rules and restrictions may apply.

21:55What made you want to go back? What were you going to check out that wasn't in the official agenda? That's a good question. And yeah, another layer to my former relationship is that we did get married. Like we had a wedding in the Philippines. He was coming to the U.S. on a fiancé visa. So we had a wedding in the Philippines knowing that his family wouldn't be able to come to the U.S. and have a wedding here. And then we would have had 90 days once we got to the U.S. to do the official marriage. He never made it to the U.S. after our wedding in the Philippines because he was stopped at the border for having tuberculosis.

22:40So there was this whole other layer. And so then I was back in the U.S. for a while and he was doing treatment through the U.S. government in Manila to take his tuberculosis medication for nine months or however long it was. But I had like already lined up a job thinking like, OK, I'm bringing someone to the U.S. and I need to. So I had a job. But then I went back to the Philippines after that job ended. It was like a seasonal summer job and stayed with him because I was like, OK, he's doing this medication and then he's going to come. But then when I was back in the U.S. for those few months, I started to have what you just described.

23:17Like, I'm like, OK, maybe my time in the Philippines is expiring. Maybe it doesn't really make sense for him to come here. He's 15 years older than me and has a child. And his only job for the past 10 years has been working in a cockfighting arena. And a lot of that was like, what is his life going to be here? Like, is he going to be happy here being used to living on an island and working one day a week in a cockfighting arena? Like, does any of this actually make sense? And how did you answer that question? By going back and trying it out for a little bit longer and seeing like, OK, with all of these now these new things to think about, like I'm going to go back and like have these conversations in person.

24:00When I was in the U.S. and he was in the Philippines for a few months, it was so hard. There were so many language barriers and I started to realize how like nonverbal our communication was. And that went for like all of the all of the Filipino friends I had. Like it was like, oh, we're in such regular contact and now we're a world apart. And like, how do we communicate? So I was like, I definitely need to go back and like try this out and see just to make sure that I'm like these feelings I'm feeling being apart are actually true. So what I'm hearing from you is a kind of a developmental arc.

24:41You know, you live in your early 20s, as your life has just been totally turned upside down by others. You arrive there and you meet someone who becomes a very important base for you, which he may or may not even know. in that period of youth life, you're not busy thinking, what is the distinction between a love story and a life story? Because you're living the love story and they blend into one. Right. And since you are there and you're not checking on anything else, there is no need to ask the questions. What will you do if you come to the United States? Right. Who will we be? I can adapt because I am in that very stage of my life where that's exactly what I wanted, a complete turnaround of everything I have known.

25:43Here I am. And he provides that for you. He is in his life. You are the one who is being offered an alternative story. and as the years go by developmentally the love story and the life story begin to separate not because they're mutually exclusive but because they don't necessarily live by the same principles and criteria right they don't look for the same things they don't share the same expectations it needs once or twice or three times of meeting going back etc to actually begin to understand that. You may not have put it in those words, but you begin to understand that this thing is not so easily transportable.

26:30It lives in a certain ecology, in a certain language, in a certain landscape, in a certain rhythm, in a certain social environment, and it doesn't necessarily travel. And you begin to feel like I've done the traveling I needed. you evolve and especially if he's 15 years older and there was not much flexibility in the time when you were even there together and he basically stayed exactly where he was when you met him you have a good sense of if there's no flexibility at home there often is no flexibility in terms of leaving home. I'm talking about home as one's entire scaffolding. Yeah, but you're also right in that he's lived with his mom his whole life.

27:23And so like, also the physical home like that is yeah. Okay. Okay. So in, I'm going to say something utterly, you know, it's the thing that just popped into my head. But he's helping you.

27:42He's helping you. You understand? He's telling you in various ways, I can't. I want, I can't, that's not us. What we had is what it was meant to be. What you're looking for now is a different story. Would it be different if he did it and you had a chance to say goodbye? or this or that, probably, but you're not somebody who says goodbye. You didn't come here to say to me, how do I say goodbye? You came to ask me, how do I keep it all inside of me? Yeah. And then the question is, what does it mean inside of me? Does this story live in the lobby of my life? And every time you enter my house, it's the first thing you see?